Log in

View Full Version : Can I start from scratch with a 2 year old dog?


nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
I apologize that this is going to be a long post, but I was hoping that if some of the more knowledgeable posters here would read all the way through, and I gave you all relevant info, you'd have some good advice for me.
My husband and I have a 2 year old beagle. When we got him, we did everything the books tell you to do, we crated him while we were at work, made sure we took him out frequently, took him to a puppy class... and he did well for awhile, but he never took to the crate. My sister and my mom have dogs that are very happy with their crates. Ours just never liked it. I came to the conclusion that some dogs are crate dogs and some aren't and ours isn't. Any dog experts reading this are probably either shaking their heads or laughing hysterically. Yes, I do believe I was wrong about that. We stopped crating him (mainly because at the time we lived in a condo with downstairs neighbors, and he would howl for who knew how long while we were gone and he was in the crate). So mostly to keep from offending the neighbors, we let him have the run of half of the house.
Cut to 2 years later... we have since moved into our own house where the neighbor problem is no longer an issue (about a year ago). My husband and I both work daytime, and usually leave the house around 9:00, 9:30. One of us is usually home before 5:00. During that time, he basically has the run of the house. I keep bathroom doors closed and a couple of bedroom doors closed, but the kitchen/dining/living area is all open and really impossible to close off. He goes out in the morning of course, and first thing when we get home in the afternoon, when I take him for a walk down the street. Then a couple more times before we go to bed at around midnight. But he will frequently go into our bedroom (while we're home, even if it hasn't been long since he went out) and pee on the floor, on the door, on the legs of the bed... if he can get into the bathroom he just pees on the floor. But in the bedroom it's always on something else. (He never poops in the house... just pees.) My solution has been to just keep that bedroom door closed so that he can't get into either room, because he rarely does it in any other room of the house. (I think he goes in the living room when we aren't there. Now and then I'll find a spot on the side of a chair or ottoman.)
This isn't the only thing he does that's a problem. I admit it's my fault, I've gotten a little lazy with him and haven't worked as hard on his behavior as I should. Lately, he has started taking things under the bed with him... a hanger, an article of clothing, anything he can find, and chewing it to pieces. Again, I've just tried to limit his access to the bedroom when I'm not in there with him. But my husband forgets to close doors. Last night, I fell asleep on the couch, and when I got up to go to bed, I found that he had dragged an entire package of bathroom tissue out of our closet, and chewed at least some of almost every roll to pieces. (Of course I was upset with the dog, but I was also upset with my husband, who just can't seem to remember to shut the closet door. He says we shouldn't have to shut the door, the dog should learn not to chew things. Which I completely agree with... but in the meantime, can't you just shut the door?)
The other thing he does (the dog, not the husband) is growl. It's only in the mornings, from what I've seen. If he's on the bed (yes he sleeps in our bed) and I'm on my way out for work, if I lean over to give my husband a goodbye kiss, the dog will growl at me. If he's under the bed (which really seems to be his favorite place) and I get too close, he'll growl at me. I thought he was just being protective of my husband, who plays with him more than I do. But he does the same thing if it's me in the bed. I think maybe he thinks that's his territory somehow? I don't know. He doesn't growl at any other time. I can pet him or touch his food while he's eating and he's fine.
Also, he hasn't been neutered... because he's the first pure-bred dog I've had, and I wanted to breed him. Now I'm not so sure if I shouldn't just get him fixed. I hate the thought of never seeing one of his puppies, but if it would help his behavior...
I'm not sure where I went wrong, but somewhere along the way, I think I must have let him get the upper hand. He's kind of our baby. He lays on the couch next to me, he sleeps in our bed, he gets lots of love and attention... he is very spoiled I guess. After reading through some of the other posts here, I'm leaning toward re-instituting the crate while we're not home, and maybe some while we're there, until he's able to stop peeing on the floor and stop chewing things. Like starting completely from scratch, a doggy-boot camp.
My question, I guess, is, is this a good idea? Should I start first thing tomorrow (when we'll be gone for a few hours) with putting him in the crate? Should I start tonight when I get home? Should I get him neutered?
Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 10:34 AM
I found that he had dragged an entire package of bathroom tissue out of our closet, and chewed at least some of almost every roll to pieces.

I didn't laugh at the crating issue, but to be honest, i got a laugh out of this! You definitely aren't alone there... some dogs just can't be trusted with toilet rolls :D

I do think neutering would help... and I'm not just saying that to convince you not the breed (we will get to that issue in a minute)
I have a male here who used to constantly have "accidents" in the house. At age 1 1/2 I went stuff it and booked him in to be neutered. He has been really good after that... up until a few weeks ago, but I admit, he has been a bit neglected due to us getting a new puppy so I believe that has a lot to do with it.
Neutering older dogs (over 1 year of age) can decrease the effect it will have on their behavior because they have already had the hormones raging through their systems for the past x amount of years... in saying that though with some dogs it can help.

As for the growling you really need to get onto that right now.
If he growls at you when laying on the bed I would be grabbing him and locking him outside the bedroom. Wait a few minutes and then allow him back in.
He needs to be shown the YOU are the boss, not him.
The same boy I had neutered growled at my partner about a year ago... he was thrown outside faster than you can say "bad boy" and he has never done it since.

Now... the breeding issue... I could write literally pages about the pros and cons of breeding but i will just ask you a simple question... Why do you want to breed him?

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 11:04 AM
I was honestly flabbergasted when I saw the toilet paper. I mean it had at least 10 rolls in the package. How did that little dog drag that all the way from the closet to almost under the bed? I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen it.
Well, as far as the breeding goes...
Originally when we first got him I thought it would be nice to make a little extra money... I didn't really want the puppies, just the stud fee. Since then I haven't done anything towards making that happen, and I don't care about the money anymore, so I'm OK with neutering, but like I said before, he's such a sweet dog and we have enjoyed him so much, I just can't stand the thought of never having a little "him". I do know all the arguments against breeding, and I know that they are correct. If we decided to get a second dog, we should get one that is already in the world in need of a home. I know that. I know that the answer is that we need to neuter him. We've talked about it but just have never done it. All the other dogs I've ever had were neutered as puppies... so it also makes me a little nervous since I've heard there can be health risks when a dog is neutered without having a chance to breed. Any thoughts on that?
The growling... that is a good idea, putting him outside the room. I hadn't thought of that. I've watched some Cesar Milan, so the one thing I did try when he growled was flipping him over on his back and holding him down, like I've seen Milan do, until he was calm.
Should we stop letting him sleep on the bed? My husband also suggested putting boxes or something under there so he can't get under the bed. Or should he just go in his crate?
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 11:22 AM
There really aren't any health benefits to breeding before desexing... and with males it is actually the opposite. Once they have had a mating they will always be on the look out for another female.

If you do decide to go ahead with it please let me know, my mother has been breeding for over 20 years so I can get you the best help there is. There is a LOT to consider before breeding and it sounds like you do know that so I'm not going to give my usual big speech ;)

Some of Caesars methods I like, some I don't. That's one that I'm not too fond of.
I have found that simply depriving the dog off attention works best, and by locking them out you are not only depriving them of attention but also cutting them off from "mom"

There are mixed opinions about dogs sleeping on beds.
Me personally... I have no problem with it. One of mine is on the bed with us every night and we have no problems (except for him hogging the blankets!)
My other 2 sleep in crates in the bedroom with us (one has incontinence so the bed is a no-go and the other I am crate training)
As for under the bed, the boxes are a great idea... it's very hard to get a dog out from under a bed to be able to punish them for growling!

There is another dogs expert on this forum, plus some other very knowledgeable dog people.
Hopefully they can come on and give you some more suggestions so you can choose what you think would work best for you.

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 11:45 AM
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the input. I'm going to try your suggestions. Still not sure what to do about crating, I'm a big softie and hate to think of him in there all day, but I do want the peeing to stop.

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 11:53 AM
You are only out for 8 hours.
For an adult dog that is not unreasonable for them to be crated that long, you would just have to take him for a nice big walk when you get home to burn of some of that pent up energy.
If you decide to go that way just make sure you introduce him to the crate slowly over a few weeks, don't just go bang and lock him in for 8 hours straight up.

I'm lucky, the shape of my house allows me to put baby gates up to keep my tribe out of trouble. They are confined to the kitchen/dining area only.

Another option that just came to me would be shutting him in the bathroom... would there be anything in there he cold hurt himself on, or do you think he would get destructive with your walls if given that space?

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 12:08 PM
He might very well get destructive... when we first moved into this house he chewed up the weather stripping around the doors and the low hanging blinds. So I'd be afraid to open the door when I got home.
Maybe I could find an extra-wide baby gate.

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 12:11 PM
Wait, it suddenly occurred to me... what about a small exercise pen? I could set it up in the dining room on the tile, throw in a couple of toys, and he should be fine!

ZoeMarie
May 14, 2010, 12:27 PM
I'm with Shaz, although I have to spread rep before I can agree with her. I don't think crate training is unreasonable at all. We thought we were going to have a heck of a time with our puppy when we got her, but every time we would put her in her crate we would give her treats, toys, etc. She quickly learned the crate was not a bad place. And now when I do need to crate her and our newer puppy all I have to do is say "mom's gotta go" and they both run down to their crate, knowing that they're going to get a treat for being cooperative. Having the patience to train your dog will pay off big time. =) Good luck! And we're all here for you when you have questions along the way.

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 12:36 PM
So, maybe I could try putting him in the crate for an hour or two in the evenings, in the living room with us while we're there, but give him something new to chew on when he goes in. When he was a puppy, I'd put him in there with a kong filled with frozen peanut butter, which he loved, but I didn't realize until I got home that it was a bad idea, because he was always dying of thirst when I let him out. (Duh.) I think maybe I could get some more kong treats, that should keep him busy for awhile.
I should have never given up on the crate. Oh well. Better late than never I guess. Thanks Zoe. :)

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 12:38 PM
I depends on the pen.
I have a puppy play pen here that has 6 sides that slot together and no top on it, it's about 4 feet high.
My pup climbed out of it the second day I got him at 3 months of age :rolleyes:

If you get one of the square ones with a wire 'roof' on it then that would be OK, a crate would still be easier though and would encourage him not to go potty where he sleeps due to the smaller space. Dogs are clean animals and although they will happily pee on your furniture they don't like peeing in their own bedding where they have no escape from it.

For me it's either a big space like a whole room, or a small space like a crate. Not somewhere in between (sounds confusing but it makes sense to me anyway)

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 12:40 PM
Contrary to the saying, you CAN teach an old dog new tricks ;)

Yep, an hour or two at a time with you in the room is how I teach mine.
If they cry or make a fuss you can either ignore them or what I do is just give them a very growly "QUIET"
If the hour is up and they are being good then they get let out and get a treat.

My 2 that are crated both jump into their crates at bed time because they know dried liver treats are on their way!

shazamataz
May 14, 2010, 12:48 PM
Bed time for me (it's rather late here in Aus), I'll check back tomorrow if you have any more questions nicwinston.
Hopefully we can help you get this problem sorted!

nicwinston
May 14, 2010, 12:49 PM
Bed time for me (it's rather late here in Aus), I'll check back tomorrow if you have any more questions nicwinston.
Hopefully we can help you get this problem sorted!

Thanks so much Shaz! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it! I will probably give the crate a try for a bit the next couple evenings and let you know how it's going.

Alty
May 14, 2010, 03:12 PM
Ah the joys of having a beagle. Mine is 1 1/2 years old. :)

I would definitely make the appointment to get him neutered, it can make all the difference. Also, crate training will really help, but you have to start slowly and work your way up.

Our little escape artist also didn't take to the crate, not only that, but he figured out how to get out of it. So we crated him and put a dog run pen around the crate thinking that that would keep him put one way or another. No so. He escaped the crate and somehow got out of the pen as well.

Ours also sleeps with us. My bad. :)

Shazzy really knows what she's doing when it comes to dogs. The only thing I do differently is that I did flip him when he growled or did any other unwanted behavior. Actually, my vet recommended doing it to make him easier to groom. Many dogs have issues with their feet being touched, so putting him on his back and holding his legs until he's calm can help when it's time for nail clipping. It's worked wonders on our little man. In fact, if he gets too out of control I simply lay him on his back and he calms down immediately, I don't have to pin him anymore and I don't have to hold his legs.

I only put him outside or take him out of our room if he fights with our other dogs. That quickly puts a stop to things, but most times I just have to clap my hands and give them the look and they stop right away.

Let us know how it all goes and please, post pictures. :)