I'm concerned that in addition to allowing millions of gallons of oil to pour into the water, BP is also adding undisclosed amounts of chemical dispersant, which may or may not be even worse than the oil. I am concerned that this disaster is going to be swept out into the Atlantic and possibly contaminate the Oceans around the world. I don't think they are trying hard enough to stop the flow, nor do I think they are doing enough to try to collect the oil that has spilled and continues to spill. I wonder why they don't have the technology to put big suction hoses down there and suck it up at the source. I don't really understand why they can't suck up the oil where it is spilling and filter the oil from the water before the water is released back into the gulf. Since they apparently can't suck it up and they don't know how to stop it, wouldn't it be the right thing to shut down other off shore oil rigs until we catch up with technology that could stop a disaster like this from happening again?

After 2 days of hearings the US Senate has come to a consensus that the blow out preventer was faulty... duh .I'm sure there are several US Senators who are experts on oil well pressures.

In the category of never let a crisis go to waste ;Sen Lurch Kerry repackaged his cap and trade bill as an "energy bill" and reintroduced it today.


"The challenges we face - underscored by the immense tragedy in the Gulf of Mexico - are reason to redouble our efforts to reform our nation's energy policies," Mr Obama said.
BBC News - Deepwater Horizon blowout preventer 'faulty' - Congress (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8679090.stm)

The answer to your question is that there are risks involved in all current energy creation. But we need to continue to exploit existing sources to bridge the gap to a time when the sciencefiction sources will be widely employed.

So ,we need to find the cause ;correct the deficiencies,clean up the mess... and forge ahead.

Somehow, to me, 'tragedy' is not the right word. Criminal disaster sounds more like it.

So, why did "they" modify the BOP so one of the safety systems didn't work? Why did "they" try to activate a system that was disabled, after the "failure"?

This should read, "Why did "they" try to activate a system that was made broken prior to the blowout, after the blowout?


Why didn't the BOP go through testing prior to cementing which is inheranty a risky procedure? That would have surely picked up the dead battery.

Where is the finger pointing now?

Did you notice that there were very few BP employees on the rig? I think it was less than a dozen.

EDIT: Added a necessary comma and the stuff in italics.

I didn't notice that. :( I'm not sure I would use BP gas even if they were giving it away free, now. I take that back, I am sure I wouldn't and won't use BP gas.

Made a couple of changes to my post. It was difficult to follow and ambiguous.

I think you have to keep perspective in these things. It is Murphy's Law that if a thing can fail it will fail, and when you try to fix, it you will fail. Murphy was an optimist.

So, it is unfortunate that a billion dollar industry is affected by this, but if you take away the oil supply you will destroy many billion dollar industries. What this says is there must be much more rigorous testing and certification of safety systems.

The reality is that the technology doesn't exist to control ocean currents so no matter what they do some oil may escape to the Atlantic. Nature has it's own control mechanism and it can deal with smaller quantities

Clete excellent response.

Nature in fact routinely leaks large qty of oil into the Gulf .

Natural Oil Seeps in the Gulf of Mexico (http://geology.com/nasa/oil-seeps/)

Oil in the Sea III: Inputs, Fates, and Effects (http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10388&page=191)

In fact ;under normal conditions (present disaster excluded ) the natural seepage represents a significant percentage of all petroleum in the Gulf of Mexico.

People in the Gulf were using tar to coat their boats long before off shore drilling ever happened.

An argument made is that extraction of the oil releaves the pressure on the natural vents .

Now ;how does nature react ? Nature cleanses ; heals itself and survives.

Clete excellent response. Hello tom:

Yeah, you and that Rush Limprod dude think it OK because oil is NATURAL. Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

I am familiar with Murphy's Law, thanks for reminding me. Makes me more sure than ever that off shore oil drilling and operating rigs should stop until technology to clean up an 'accident' catches up with our ability to blow a gasket.

I was unaware that oil is naturally vented on the sea floor... but, oil rig extraction does NOT appear to relieve pressure, otherwise why would oil be gushing (seemingly under high pressure) from the broken BP well?

Anyone know of a list of all oil companies that have offshore rigs?

Today a natural gas rig went down off Venezuela . We can regulate it to death and that still will not guarantee that it is risk free.
We can ban all drilling off our coast and that won't prevent deep sea drilling by other nations in the Gulf. In fact ,Russian and Chinese drilling is going to happen off the Florida keys . Do we know what procedures and regulations they fall under ?

Most of the known oil reserves are owned by nations ,and nations are going to continue to drill because it is a product they can exploit for revenue . But the known reserves are not enough to satisfy demand;and there is no foreseeable time frame where alternatives will replace the need for carbon based fuel as the primary energy supply. Thus the alternative is to drill and explore in deeper seas until such time that alternative become a realistic alternative.

Not every disaster can be anticipated . No doubt corrections and procedures will be initiated to prevent similar spills from occurring . But ;the next disaster will not be the same as the last one and the kewpie dance of finger pointing and pontificating will happen again before the blowhards announce that a newer safer system is in place... and so on and so on.

Hello tom:

Yeah, you and that Rush Limprod dude think it ok because oil is NATURAL. Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

EX you may also realise then that CO2 is natural and that nature also has it's own mechanisms for dealing with it. You can live your life in the backwoods with a campfire to provide heat and light and a donkey for transport or you can take advantage of oil and the products that come withit. If you do you might have to get your hands dirty now and again. It's another inconvenient truth

I have been somewhat involved at the local level in the decision making process for construction projects. The one common feature of these has been that the proposer of the project was required to submit a detailed Environmental Imapct Statement for public perusal and comment.

It now turns out that the Obama Dept of the Interior's Minerals Management Service (MMS) permitted BP to proceed with the Deepwater Horizon project granting a waiver for the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) on April 6, 2009... essentially bypassing approved regulations ,ignoring their oversight resonsibilities ,and rubberstamping the project.

This raises issues about the competency of Interior Sec Ken Salazar and staffers such as (vacation... happy to get away) Tommy Strickland .

It appears that Salazar is quite competent at rhetoric ,but may not be so competent in performance of his job. He came into office saying that he would move MMS in a different direction after claiming it was too cozy with industry.But under Salazar the agency apparently granted all types of exemptions to standard regulatory control.

Not only that ;but according to ABC's Jake Tapper ;even after the spill ,the MMS continues to grant “categorical exclusions” for oil companies, allowing them to bypass the last stage of environmental review before proceeding with drilling projects.
Interior Department Continues to Issue ?Categorical Exclusions? for Oil Drilling, Administration Official Acknowledges - Political Punch (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/interior-department-continues-to-issue-categorical-exclusions-for-oil-drilling-administration-official-acknowledges.html)


Kierán Suckling, executive director of the Tucson, Arizona-based Center for Biological Diversity, told ABC News that the Interior Department is in fact able to conduct reviews in 30 days, as they do in Alaska.

“They have 30 days and instead they do an approval in 24 hours” with the exemption, Suckling said. “They're just rubber-stamping this stuff.”

Suckling said in a statement that MMS officials have “learned absolutely nothing from this national catastrophe. (MMS) is still illegally exempting dangerous offshore drilling projects in the Gulf of Mexico from all environmental review. It is outrageous and unacceptable.”


This isn't a case of not enough regulation. It is an example of a bloated Federal bureaucracy in action.

This isn't a case of not enough regulation. It is an example of a bloated Federal bureaucracy in action.Hello tom:

Nahh... BLOAT has nothing to do with it... POLITICS has EVERYTHING to do with it. This wasn't a file getting lost in a big stack of files. This was PURPOSELY done. Yes, the agency FAILED. But, I suspect it's because the Bush managers weren't shown the door when Obama took over. Giving the oil industry a blank check is NOT a Democratic thing. It IS a Republican thing.

Either way, it shows a lack of management, and Obama is in charge.

excon

Well that's the problem with government in general. You have heard me complain before that bureaucracies remain entrenched regardless of who is in charge.

Salazar actually has a decent proposal if he follows though with it... separating the fee and licensing collection from the enforcement parts of the agency. This I believe should be done across the board with all Federal agencies
The Associated Press: Salazar names 2 to oversee agency restructuring (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jYP7GoO9ldJALdGGRcHuadmF3y1gD9FMB6KO0)

Well, not that I was planning on it in the near future... though I have gone to the gulf on many vacations, from South Padre Island to South Florida, I'm not going to go on vacation to the gulf of Mexico, again, possibly ever. All those who live in the area who count on tourist dollars have lost big time. Plus all the killed sea life... I know there was a dead zone there already, but this could not have helped at all.

Those who gave BP a 'pass' as well as BP owners should be held accountable. I hope they are.

This is it... Everyone should read Revelation (8:8-11),(16:3),(18:9-19). It says it all, and what we're to expect!

This is it... Everyone should read Revelation (8:8-11),(16:3),(18:9-19). It says it all, and what we're to expect!

Well, at least President Obama is angry at the finger-pointing.

It just seems very stupid to disable a critical safety device and then do a potentially hazardous operation and it also seems stupid to use water rather than the thick mix.

Note, the most recent logs are convieniently missing. Time for a black box recorder or a ship nearby or transmit the info wirelessly.

Well, at least President Obama is angry ... at long last. I can't help but feel his reaction is much too little way too late.

This is it.....Everyone should read Revelation (8:8-11),(16:3),(18:9-19). It says it all, and what we're to expect!!Hello M:

I wondered when the dude in the death robes would show up, carrying his sign that the world is DOOMED. I didn't know he'd be a chick, though.

excon

Gulf Oil Spill May Far Exceed Government, BP Estimates : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525)

Gulf Oil Spill May Far Exceed Government, BP Estimates : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525)

There is always the ultimate solution, nuke it, that should seal the leak and burn off the oil. See, no one is prepared to admin they even thought about it.

Look, bad news travels fast and with Murpy's Law in operation things are always ten times worse than the first reports. This is what you get when you allow capitalism free reign but the other side of Murphy's Law is that the simplist solution is sometimes the best, now they are using a siphon to capture the oil

This is what you get when you allow capitalism free reign.Hello again, clete:

Nahhh. This is what you get when government doesn't do its job.

excon

Hello again, clete:

Nahhh. This is what you get when government doesn't do its job.

excon

Now ex you can have it both ways, surely you want small government?

Now ex you can have it both ways, surely you want small government?Hello again, clete:

You're right. I want small government. I don't want NO government. And, what I'd want my SMALL government to do is regulate how we treat our national resources - not the stuff I put in my body. People who want to regulate that, DON'T want small government.

excon

Hello again, clete:

You're right. I want small government. I don't want NO government. And, what I'd want my SMALL government to do is regulate how we treat our national resources - not the stuff I put in my body. People who wanna regulate that, DON'T want small government.

excon

You don't get it ex, the job of government is to regulate harmfull substances

You don't get it ex, the job of government is to regulate harmfull substancesHello again, clete:

I think I do. Let me see. Pot in my body = good. Oil pouring into our ocean = bad.

excon

Hello again, clete:

You're right. I want small government. I don't want NO government. And, what I'd want my SMALL government to do is regulate how we treat our national resources - not the stuff I put in my body. People who wanna regulate that, DON'T want small government.

excon

I think the US government's job would/should be to take care of US territories, like the Gulf of Mexico.

Hello again:

I'm sure those of you who follow current events remembers me talking about throwing our trash into the air. It just seems to me, that doing that is going to do something bad. The rightwingers here constantly remind me that nobody is saying that it's OK to throw your trash into the air.

But, I'm hearing from some righty's that it's really going to be OK that we're dumping oil into the ocean. Brit Hume, on the weekend FOX show kept emphasizing that point by saying the Gulf "is a BIG ocean". Rush Limprod says it too.

Which makes me think you righty's really DO believe that it's OK to throw our trash into the air. After all, the atmosphere is pretty BIG.

excon

It's NOT OK. Pollution kills... and now I hear the oil in the gulf is going into the stream that will loop it around Florida and into the Atlantic.

Hello this:

Mark my words. This will be remembered as the WORST environmental disaster to have EVER befallen us. If we kill the oceans, we die too.

excon

:(

Hello this:

Mark my words. This will be remembered as the WORST environmental disaster to have EVER befallen us. If we kill the oceans, we die too.

excon

Ex do you remember the exxon valdez, the worst environmental disaster.

This will be the worst until the next time we do something stupid

We can tilt at windmills hoping sci-fi solutions for our energy needs will emerge in the short term ;or we can fix this problem ;learn from it and move on. Ask the miners in W Va. If this is a risky business. Valdez today is clean so the damage is repairable .

By the way the worse disaster was Chernobyl. 336,000 people were forced to resettled. Does that mean we should quit nuclear power ? No

No we should not quit nuclear power. I think I read a while ago that the vegetation around Chernobyl has flourished, and though the animals may have suffered some DNA damage, wildlife has also flourished.

Hello again, tom:

On FOX News Sunday, Brit Hume told Juan Williams that the country needs to have an adult conversation about oil. (He's so pompous!) "We're NOT going to stop using it", he lectured Juan.

Hume got it to a teenage level. He STILL didn't get very adult about it. Because if he did, he would have said that oil is finite. We ARE going to run out, and we WILL stop using it. That is just so. The question we have to ask ourselves is, are we going to do it NOW, or are we going to do it LATER.

If we do it NOW, the pain is going to be less than if we do it later. But, if we do it RIGHT NOW, TODAY, there might not be any pain at all. In fact, it might just be the thing that pulls us OUT of this recession.

Now, THAT'S an adult conversation about energy.

excon

PS> (edited) Well, I don't mean STOP, as in cold turkey. I mean BEGIN an alternative energy program TODAY!

I did not watch it so I don't know the tone. Nor did I read the transcript so I can't put his comments in context.

He is of course correct that in the near term there is nothing out there that satisfies our current energy needs than carbon based fuels .
Of course take realistic conservation measures and explore all the science fiction alternatives ,and even adopt (where realistic )the alternatives that have been developed .

But I do believe ,given the increase in demand for energy worldwide;that there is a suitable immediate replacement for oil gas coal. The best approach for now is "all hands on deck" . I do not agree that we should stop using it NOW . I would like to see the plan you have to quit using carbon based energy sources now and replace the infrastructure to accommodate some yet to be discovered energy supply that could immediately replace existing energy demands ,let alone future demands.

Accidents should be a wake up call. But you can often get the wrong message from them .
The 3 Mile Island accident denied us a valuable source of clean energy for decades . Instead ,a recognition of the dangers in energy exploration ,extraction ,and generation should be part of the calculation... that where safeguards can be employed they should be .

But accidents should not make us shy.Nor should we be deluded in the thought that clean renewable alternative energies are a panacia .

To give you one example ;all these fuel cells ,and batteries for windmills everyone is in love with requires the mining of even rarer minerals than oil .The vast supply of these minerals are found in nations that are just as dangerous to be beholden to as the Arab nations .
But they have been touted as part of the brave new utopian world .

Many of the challenges involved in adopting alternatives do not get discussed with this enamour with anything but oil utopia.

You would agree that an adult discussion about energy supply would also recognize that it isn't as easy or as painless as portrayed to convert a world economy .

The good news is that when viable alternatives to existing technology have become available in the past ,the free market recognized it and there was a rapid conversion .

So yes ,I see a day when there will be viable alternatives . That day is not now.


PS> (edited) Well, I don't mean STOP, as in cold turkey. I mean BEGIN an alternative energy program TODAY!


PS I agree and no one disputes that .

So stop the drilling off the US coast, become more dependent on oil for other countries, lets triple the cost of everything. Oh I forgot, Mexico,China,Cuba and every other country has wells in the Gulf in international water or off their own coast. The gulf is shared check your map. Accidents happen and a plan was prepared but never funded. Who does that? You Know fund things that protect the interest of the American people? When the accident happen no equipment was available because no one was given the job and funds. The damage could have been far less had the equipment been ready and waiting. BP my own the well the damages fall at the feet of congress.

BP my own the well the damages fall at the feet of congress.
I'm not sure what that sentence says.

BP "neglected" to provide a $500,000 piece of equipment that would have prevented this accident. Greed is what it comes down to -- greed on the part of BP.

I'm not sure what that sentence says.

BP "neglected" to provide a $500,000 piece of equipment that would have prevented this accident. Greed is what it comes down to -- greed on the part of BP.

That's incorrect BP did not neglect to provide the equipment, the equipment failed in service unfortunately when it was needed

That's incorrect BP did not neglect to provide the equipment, the equipment failed in service unfortunately when it was needed

Most people, when setting up emergency equipment out of reach, have a tendency to check and make sure it works before they can't reach it, like checking the batteries.

In 1985 a plan was drawn up that would have prevented the spill from spreading in the event of an accident just like this. Some one dropped the ball money was allocated and no one can find or the equipment needed to contain the oil. When the accident happened it took 8 days before after many phone calls what to be on hand ready and waiting was located in another part of the world was purchased and brought to the site. BP is no angle but the aftermath could have been far less if congress had paid attention and protected the waters and coast line by being prepared and insured that the job was done. The boot needs to be on the neck of congress. Watch what these guys are doing. If your boss never checks on you it's human nature to slack off. By the way the American People are the boss, don't let Congress forget that.

Most people, when setting up emergency equipment out of reach, have a tendency to check and make sure it works before they can't reach it, like checking the batteries.

I think your attitude fairly niaive, even if the equiptment works at sea level there is no way to test it at depth once installed and it is unlikely that it would be certain it would work at all depths as the present case demonstrates. What is obviously needed is a piece of equipment that can be frequently tested under any conditions but the cost may be prohibitive so what is used in these circumstances is probability and the one in a million happened as it will sooner or later

In 1985 a plan was drawn up that would have prevented the spill from spreading in the event of an accident just like this. Some one dropped the ball money was allocated and no one can find or the equipment needed to contain the oil. When the accident happened it took 8 days before after many phone calls what to be on hand ready and waiting was located in another part of the world was purchased and brought to the site. BP is no angle but the aftermath could have been far less if congress had paid attention and protected the waters and coast line by being prepared and insured that the job was done. The boot needs to be on the neck of congress. Watch what these guys are doing. If your boss never checks on you it's human nature to slack off. By the way the American People are the boss, don't let Congress forget that.

It is great to be wise after the event as of course politicians and commentators always are. But those who drew up a plan in 1985 are not those administering the allocation of funds today. Such programs can be gone as quickly as an administration and in any case technology changes. The shutoff valve was supposed to be failsafe to prevent such events and was either damaged or malfunctioned. It is unlikely any plan contemplated the complete loss of a drill platform but there would not have been a spill if the shutoff had operated as designed. These deep sea drilling activities are dealing with unimagined pressures and stresses and it may be that this form of activity may just have to wait for the technology to catch up

niaive,

Was that a typo or a spelling error?

Naiveté I am seldom guilty of. They dropped the blowout preventer with a dead battery.

Oil rig safety device's failure targeted - Worldnews.com (http://article.wn.com/view/2010/05/13/Oil_rig_safety_devices_failure_targeted/)

I added BP to my boycott list. Not for the rig explosion and spill . Rather, because they still deal with Iran. Oil Trade With Iran Thrives, Discreetly - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575254554231664686.html)

Yep, I think someone dropped tha ball when they did something risky without checking the safety equipment first. A dead battery and one of the safety systems was disabled on purpose is just plain bad.

Was that a typo or a spelling error?

Naiveté I am seldom guilty of. They dropped the blowout preventer with a dead battery.

Oil rig safety device's failure targeted - Worldnews.com (http://article.wn.com/view/2010/05/13/Oil_rig_safety_devices_failure_targeted/)

so human error entered the equation, often does, Murphy's Law in operation it is always the cheapest part that fails and batteries have a finite life

Let me explain myself a little better. The 1985 plan was approved and funded by the congress. This plan was designed to stop and contain the spill had it been deployed in a timely fashion our wildlife would not be in so much trouble. No one knows where the money went, no equipment was purchased. Now to who can be blamed for this. These lifer's in congress where there and are still there. Let's ask them. Note no congressional inquiry has been called on this issue.

I agree a dead battery is just stupid. But theft of the people's money is a crime.

Let me explain myself a little better. The 1985 plan was approved and funded by the congress. This plan was designed to stop and contain the spill had it been deployed in a timely fashion our wildlife would not be in so much trouble. No one knows where the money went, no equipment was purchased. Now to who can be blamed for this. These lifer's in congress where there and are still there. let's ask them. Note no congressional inquiry has been called on this issue.

You can't have an inquiry on every point related to the problem after all such enquiries are about deflecting blame from the government. The rule is you don't hold an enquiry unless you have a good idea of the outcome, you certainly don't hold one where you will be found at fault

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has been waiting for the Army Corp of Engineers to build sand barriers between the delicate marshlands and the Gulf to protect the barrier islands. But the Corp is waiting for an environmental impact evalution and has not granted Louisiana's request for an emergency permit for the plan.:confused::confused::confused:

Do they really think that sand dumped into the gulf would have a greater negative environmental impact than oil soaking the barrier islands ? He wants to build 80 miles of sand berms . He should go ahead without the Federal Government's approval .

There are of course people who question the effectiveness of the plan but a berm constructed on Elmer's Island appears to be doing the trick.

The government should approve the plan regardless of cost ;and send the bill to BP .

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has been waiting for the Army Corp of Engineers

Waiting on the Feds seems to be a habit in that State.

To be fair ;he has requested the approval ; and the coastal areas are the Fed's perview.
Gov Blanco by contrast was required to request Fed aid during Katrina and waited too long to make the request.

Via Ace (http://minx.cc/?post=301887), I think he just got tired of waiting:

"We are not waiting for them. We are going to build it," Jindal said."

After 34 days how can you blame him? I can only imagine how this would have played out under Bush, how many days you think he'd get before everyone went ballistic? It took 4 weeks before liberal media figures took Obama to task over (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37632.html) his lack of response other than pledging to keep his boot on the neck of BP.

Meanwhile, they're still granting environmental waivers (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html?pagewanted=all) for drilling in the gulf.

Blanco was wrong. Jindal is right. Fed's won't move until Obama can find a way to take credit for it. Today's press parade today for example. Fill the ++++
Hole.

No we should not quit nuclear power. I think I read a while ago that the vegetation around Chernobyl has flourished, and though the animals may have suffered some DNA damage, wildlife has also flourished.

Hate to disagree with you but that immediate area of Chernobyl is considered off limits and any person who enters into that area must wear a full radiation suit! The area is still quite toxic and Chernobyl is a ghost town. You must be thinking of the surrounding area and not Chernobyl itself.

No we should not quit nuclear power. I think I read a while ago that the vegetation around Chernobyl has flourished, and though the animals may have suffered some DNA damage, wildlife has also flourished.

Hate to disagree with you but that immediate area of Chernobyl is considered off limits and any person who enters into that area must wear a full radiation suit!! The area is still quite toxic and Chernobyl is a ghost town. You must be thinking of the surrounding area and not Chernobyl itself.
Thisisit is correct about the wildlife. The jury is still out about long-term effects. There are indications of albinism, strange tree growth, changes in animal functioning, but generally herds and flocks are flourishing.

Now ;how does nature react ? Nature cleanses ; heals itself and survives.

I believe this.

I also believe geological time and human time aren't one and the same. That its simplistic to say this is a mistake that can be corrected in time... and that its wrong to think that the time it might take won't have a dramatic impact on this region as we know it.

We could set off an H bomb in chicago. Eventually nature would persist. That's still little comfort for the dead.

Every living creature in the water and onshore in the Gulf area will be dead. The underwater plant life will be dead. The coral reefs of Florida will be dead. The coral reefs of the Bahamas will be dead.

This area was planned for "people removal" way back in 2005 with Katrina. Now it's being said that millions of people will be displaced and evacuated from this area completely. The benzene fumes are enough to kill people if inhaled and there is no known minimum level of just how much benzene can be tolerated by a human being (or any animal for that matter). This entire area will be barren and dead shortly.

This oil well disaster was actually a man made disaster caused by explosives that were deliberately set off. The BP folks are dictatating to the USA just what kind of toxic dispersant can be used and REFUSE to use any less toxic dispersant instead. What sort of lunacy is this?? Our fluffy headed president said that he had seen a bird flying with oil on its wings. A bird with oil on it's wings cannot fly! And this is what for empty headed president we have! He's more interested in what ball team players play on than the entire southern United States is literally being destroyed and the good probability that the Gulf Stream taking this toxic brew into the Atlantic and on to Europe. If you think England's a nice place now, just wait a few months and their wild life and their fish will all be dead as ours will be shortly.

This is just another man made disaster to make more people richer. I find it most interesting that Warren Buffet conveniently bought up a lot of stock in the very company that is supplying this extremely toxic dispersant. Odd, wouldn't you say? Or is it just too, too coincidental for such a thing to happen?

And if we have a busy hurricane season as they are now predicting, don't you think that a lot of this oil soaked Gulf surface water is going to be sucked up into these intense storms and brought ashore to then rain upon the interior lands of the southern and northeastern areas of the US causing death to the growing crops, the forests, and wild animals living there?

More people should be outraged at the complete LACK of curtailing this toxic oil from spreading... Letting the politicians yak on endlessly about this is going to cause the worst environmental crisis in the entire world. The Exxon Valdez disaster was not even close to this as it was just ONE tanker not a pipeline spewing toxic oil. The Exxon Valdez ruined the fishing in that area for at least 15 years. There are still pockets of oil blobs at the shoreline that are trapped under the sand to this day.

i believe this.

i also believe geological time and human time arent one and the same. that its simplistic to say this is a mistake that can be corrected in time... and that its wrong to think that the time it might take wont have a dramatic impact on this region as we know it.

we could set off an H bomb in chicago. eventually nature would persist. thats still little comfort for the dead.
A really cool book to read is The World Without Us --

Amazon.com: The World Without Us (9780312347291): Alan Weisman: Books (http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Us-Alan-Weisman/dp/0312347294)

Thisisit is correct about the wildlife. The jury is still out about long-term effects. There are indications of albinism, strange tree growth, changes in animal functioning, but generally herds and flocks are flourishing.

The town of Chernobyl is literally closed period. You are not permitted to enter unless you have a permit and a full radiation suit.

A really cool book to read is The World Without Us --

Amazon.com: The World Without Us (9780312347291): Alan Weisman: Books (http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Us-Alan-Weisman/dp/0312347294)

I just realized I find girls who recommend books to read to be sexy. I mean that the girls are sexy who recommend... ah, never mind...

Just saying.

On with the everything in the gulf dead thread.

Our fluffy headed president said that he had seen a bird flying with oil on its wings. A bird with oil on it's wings cannot fly!!
The President is correct -- birds with oil on their wings CAN fly. It depends on how much oil. From Greenspace, May 20, 2010: Biologist James Harris, with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services, has spent two decades at the Breton National Wildlife Refuge. “We've found 3 [live] oiled birds so far,” he tells a small group of journalists on a tour. “You can't go chasing the lightly oiled birds through the nesting areas, because they can still fly. Trying to rescue them can disturb the other birds. If the pelican nests are disturbed, the eggs can get kicked out of the nests. The gulls will eat them.”

Yes, this oil spill is a horrible disaster. A great deal of wildlife will be lost, people will lose their jobs and careers, their livelihoods. Once the gushing has been stopped, cleanup will begin, has already begun. This disaster will be felt for generations. But birds with some oil on their wings can still fly.

Hello again:

Yes, the EARTH will survive - your point?? Personally, I'm more concerned with my grandchildren than rocks... You? Not so much.

excon

Hello again:

Yes, the EARTH will survive - your point????? Personally, I'm more concerned with my grandchildren than rocks.... You? Not so much.

excon

Up early Ex?

Your grandchildren will be fine as far as this goes. The Gulf is used to this. You don't even hear about the bigger spill down there anymore.

Ixtoc I oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill)

By the way, occasionally someone mentions that the floor of the Gulf leaks oil naturally.

By the way, occaisionally someone mentions that the floor of the Gulf leaks oil naturally.Morning, Cats:

My butt leaks gas naturally too, but that doesn't make it all right.

excon

Re natural seepage :

Authorities estimate that the amount of oil in reservoirs on the continental shelves of the world total 2 trillion barrels. It is also estimated that possibly less than 1% of all hydrocarbons ever generated become entrapped in a reservoir. To account for 2 trillion barrels of oil reserves, 198 trillion barrels would have to be initially formed.

The pervasive theory of seepage states that the entire surface area of a source bed is available for hydrocarbon migration, and that the entire surface area of an offshore basin may be available for seepage. Tar globs and fragments and oil droplets have been recovered in dredges and cores from every physiographic province in the Gulf of Mexico. Pervasive seepage of 0.1 bbl/day/ 1000 sq mi in the Gulf of Mexico would produce 18,250 barrels/year. Using Week's (1965) estimate of 6,170,000 sq mi of potential petroleum bearing area for the continental shelves of the world, and assuming the same seepage rate per 1000 sq mi, would produce 225,205 barrels/year. This rate could be sustained for 879 million years.

Tar Balls Is in the Sea:A New Source Concept (http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=OTC-2002-MS&soc=OTC)


Archaeological reports indicate that the Karankawa Indians were using tar in their pottery making in pre-Columbian times. Pottery making in pre-Columbian times. Survivors of DeSoto's group used tar found along the Texas-Louisiana coast to caulk their boats. From 1902 to 1909 heavy oil slicks were noted in an area about 100 miles south of the Louisiana coast. Oil spouting into the air was reported in the same area in 1909. Oil ponds off the Sabine area are reported in a USGS publication in 1903. Publication in 1903. Reports of seeps in the Gulf are numerous, and the Department's study has located several general areas of seepage within and around the Gulf of Mexico. Natural Hydrocarbon Seepage in the Gulf of Mexico (http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=00004199&soc=SPE)


Kennicutt says the watersealing properties of tar were also discovered along the Texas Gulf Coast, where native Indians used the substance to coat canoes and boats.
The Secret Of Mummy Embalming (http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_account/the_secret_of_mummy_embalming)

Texas Primer: The Tar Ball: Texas Monthly August 1987 (http://www.texasmonthly.com/preview/1987-08-01/primer)

Florida tar balls not from Gulf spill (http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20100519/NEWS01/100519900)