Hi,
I've been married for 14 years and have 3 great children. My husband has always been OCD on cleanliness. Our friends say our house is over tidy and my sister says that it doesn't look lived in. No toys are allowed out of the children's bedrooms, no nicknacks are allowed anywhere. No shelves allowed on walls because he could not cope with anything on them. After the kids go to school I spend my day cleaning up after them until they come home. When there is an item on the floor or on any other surface I am called a slob. I am told that without him I would live in a condemed house that would be covered in clutter and utter mess. If everything is not immaculate he gets upset or angry and then says things he shouldn't and doesn't even mean.
He has never been diagnosed with OCD but even our friends say that he has it. He refuses to get checked and says it is me that has the problem with being a slob.
I know my house is clean but how can I get around this?

Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self (http://joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm)

Making a set boundary as to how much you are responsible for, where this type of attitude takes you and letting him know what you FEEL!

By your introduction it seems like you aren't going to put up with this much more and need an answer to this,soon.

The first thing is to begin by learning how to protect yourself, not physically,but mentally/emotionally.

You have been an enabler to this situation for the entire relationship, no,I don't mean that as a judgmental comment,just an observation.. in order to move beyond the enabling status,you have to have a solid ground to stand on,one which you won't budge from when pressed.

Please,read that site, listen to yourself, decide how much more you want to stay in the chaos or stop it from progressing any further.

Tough love is in order here, I wish you the best,

KBC

He owns this problem but you are getting the backlash from it.

Very unfair. His attitude toward you should you not comply with his personal problems is verbal abusive.Again,very unfair.

He is also creating an environment that is not conducive to relaxation and harmony,which is unhealthy for children and yourself as well.

No one should have to walk on eggshells in their home to please someone who will no doubt find something wrong ,no matter how clean you are.

I believe it is time for a showdown and as KBC stated a dose of tough love.
No one should be subject to this type of stressful living condition and I hope your children have escaped his wrath.

How you have tolerated this for so long is beyond me.
Was he always this way or was there some event that triggered it?

Stress makes OCD symptoms worse so he may need to learn how to manage his stress in a more appropriate manner.

Become knowledgeable about his particular OCD and share your research with him.It can't be a picnic for him living with this disease either but it is not a life sentence and there is help available.

Here is a site I hope you will find useful as a starting point to begin the change that you so dearly need.

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder: Help for Partners and Families-CAMH (http://www.camh.net/About_Addiction_Mental_Health/Mental_Health_Information/OCD/ocd_help.html)

KBC, great advice about setting boundaries.

mckmel, How does this affect the children? I read your other thread about miscarriages and I am wondering if his problems have gotten worse in the past few months.

Does he do anything to help clean or does he expect you to do it all? I ask because I am wondering if it is a neatness issue or a control issue. Does he try to control other aspects of your life as well as how clean the house is?

As I said in the other thread, I think you need to talk to your doctor. He/she should be able to direct you to appropriate support groups in your area and other places to get help for you and the children.

Mckmel,

In your post you don't describe a person with OCD. Other than making you and your children's life miserable with a HIS standard of neat and orderly, what does he do to make you think OCD? Sounds like YOU are the one making sure everything is in order not HIM. He's just barking the orders and you are running around frantically trying to keep the house in a condition that is almost impossible to do with children.

From what you have described it sounds more to ME like verbal and emotional abuse. When your husband calls you names and puts you down and lets you know where you'd be without HIM... come ON. That is an abusive man with control issues.

Either way, I agree with everyone's advice. Set some boundries, practice tough love and get some counseling for yourself even if he won't go.

Yes, you need your space to have your things out they way you want them, and the kids are to have their space.

You merely don't let him talk to you like that, explain to him you both have a problem and can't live like this, demond counseling, and start going on your own if he won't

It may be a good idea to do a bit of counseling yourself so that you can have the mental tools to deal with him.
You need to sit him down and tell him how his behavior is affecting you.
Let him know that you are tidy, you keep the home clean, but if it does not meet his satisfaction then he needs to take up the slack.
You must be strong and not back down, or he will make you crazy.
I know this personally. It's time you take a stand.
I wish you well.

You have put up with his behaviour for 14 years if I read you right. I am curious as to how his relationship is with his children.

That he doesn't 'allow' you to to certain things, is control. That he uses intimidation and demeaning comments about the smallest of things, is abuse.

OCD is treatable, yet he refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem. If he is forced to face a diagnosis, then he can't blame you for everything right? How convenient.

While you are treated this way, and your children I presume, he continues to be a tyrant and force his unreasonable demands on you.

I personally couldn't take someone with that extreme kind of behaviour for any length of time. That you have been through so much pain with this, and are still there is amazing to me. He's very lucky.

It may be time to involve a third party. Maybe his mother, or sister, or a mutual friend that he trusts. He needs to hear an inventory of what he does, and how it affects you. He also has to hear that you are no longer willing to live your life under a dictatorship.

Insist that he see his family doctor, and prior to his appointment, see the doctor yourself to discuss why he is coming in. The more information he has the better.

Once the cat is out of the bag, there is no turning back. Counselling will likely be recommended to figure out why he is, or has become, the way he is.

Even after all of that, he may not be willing, and you have to expect that may indeed put you in a position of choosing to stay, or choosing to go.

Only you can decide when to stop trying to help him, and instead help yourself and your children get out from under his control.

I have been doing some thinking and trying to reconcile what you are currently going through with your desire to have a fourth child. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/pregnancy-new-motherhood/what-can-cause-miscarriage-470385.html ). I sincerely think you need to get help for him or get you and your children out of this emotional mess.

Babies and an immaculate house do not go together. Children and an immaculate house do not go together. Even if they are helping, it sounds like you still have a full day of cleaning and your husband's temper to deal with. This situation does not sound healthy for any of you.

I hope you are open and honest with your doctor about your home life. He/she should be able to guide you to people who can help. However, like your husband, you have to be willing to take the next step. Are you ready to make the necessary changes?

I'm thinking the last thing she needs to do it bring a baby into this situation.

With the problems you are having with your husband a baby will only add to it.
You need to decide if you want this to improve or entrench yourself deeper into it, a baby will do this.
The only way to escape this is to decide you will no longer put up with it. When you get tired of being sick and tired, you will make a decision and stick to it.
I wish you well.

Hi again;
My husband is usually really good with the kids, he may get a little upset with them when they misbehave but no more than any other father. When he disciplines them he does so only verbally, and just to the extent of telling them what they did wrong and why, he just goes on and on and on and on.
They also have to help with the cleaning. Our 13 year old son cleans the dishes and our 11 year old son vacuums the floors twice a day, but I am pretty sure that any other children their age does similar chores. Our 11 year old does find iot strange that he has to vacuum twice but they never ask their Dad, but they do come to me.
The kids and I are very open with each other. If everything is not in order in the evening when my husband comes home he gets an instant migraine and has to leave the house. Occasionally they ask questions about why Dad has his moments, but I do talk to them about their feelings after he has one of his moments. If they are upset about it, when my husband calms down I can point out that whatever he was upset about is not their fault and then he usually goes and apologizes to them.
I do think it is an OCD because he is totally fine in other peoples houses but he can just sense something is out of place in our own. If he is sitting in a room, even just to watch TV his eyes will scan around the room just to make sure if everything is right, and if it is not he has to pause the show and correct it first.
As a teenager he was extremely neat and everything had to be in order. It wasn't hard to keep the house in order then without children. Our first son was born 11 months after we married and even with one it was still okay. The house still to me looks as clean as before. When we sweep and if there was dust or lint or any pile of dirt, then to him the house is messy because he saw dirt. He feels there shouldn't be dust on furniture before we dust but that cleaning should be done daily or twice daily or how many times it takes so that there is never anything on the floors or other surfaces. The glass and mirrors should be clean before the smudge gets on it, etc... I don't quite understand the whole idea.
One person has suggessted talking to his parents but he does not talk with them, maybe once a year. Both are in AA, his father is a manic depressant and his mother is bi-polar, great mix for having a child.
I did not know any of that when we were married. My husband does know that some of this could have been passed on but he does not feel that keeping an immaculately clean house is an issue since I am a stay at home mom. Our 3 children were being homeschooled unitl December when I had my first misscarriage and couldn't handle it any longer. They are all doing great, 2 of them top in their classses, and our middle child is adjusting really well (he has learning dissabilities).
The only time that he helps with the cleaning is if I'm away with the children, when I come home the house is scary clean. Since he works 50 hours a week he says the house is my duty.
How do I get at setting boundries at how much I will do, It's not like a weekly chore list that I follow. I just clean until it is done daily. What kind of boundries could I set.
I do not believe in ending a relationship, to me for my family and the best interest of our children it is permanent. My parents ended their marriage when I was 13, and I would never do that to them. We need to work this through. I just do not know where to start and how.

You tell him that his excessive need for clean is not normal. To get a migraine because something is out of place is not normal. There is no reason the kids or anybody should vacuum twice a day. Tell him that he needs help. Tell him you will do what you feel needs to be done but that is it.
If you are going to stay and put up with his nonsense then you need to get some counseling and have an outlet. Counseling on how to keep your sanity and an outlet to keep from being depressed and feeling like a service rather than a wife.
I wish you the best.

Mckmel,

Is there anything else he is unhappy with you about? Is there anything else that he puts you down about? Is keeping the house clean the only thing he gets really gets upset over? Really think about it... because I am still not convienced it is OCD. It could be... but first think about how he treats you in every other part of your lives. Is he good and kind otherwise?

Hi again;
My husband is usually really good with the kids, he may get a little upset with them when they misbehave but no more than any other father. When he disciplines them he does so only verbally, and just to the extent of telling them what they did wrong and why, he just goes on and on and on and on.
They also have to help with the cleaning. Our 13 year old son cleans the dishes and our 11 year old son vacuums the floors twice a day, but I am pretty sure that any other children their age does similar chores. Our 11 year old does find iot strange that he has to vacuum twice but they never ask their Dad, but they do come to me.
The kids and I are very open with each other. If everything is not in order in the evening when my husband comes home he gets an instant migraine and has to leave the house. Occassionally they ask questions about why Dad has his moments, but I do talk to them about their feelings after he has one of his moments. If they are upset about it, when my husband calms down I can point out that whatever he was upset about is not their fault and then he usually goes and apologizes to them.
I do think it is an OCD because he is totally fine in other peoples houses but he can just sense something is out of place in our own. If he is sitting in a room, even just to watch TV his eyes will scan around the room just to make sure if everything is right, and if it is not he has to pause the show and correct it first.
As a teenager he was extremely neat and everything had to be in order. It wasn't hard to keep the house in order then without children. Our first son was born 11 months after we married and even with one it was still okay. The house still to me looks as clean as before. When we sweep and if there was dust or lint or any pile of dirt, then to him the house is messy because he saw dirt. He feels there shouldn't be dust on furniture before we dust but that cleaning should be done daily or twice daily or how many times it takes so that there is never anything on the floors or other surfaces. The glass and mirrors should be clean before the smudge gets on it, etc... I don't quite understand the whole idea.
One person has suggessted talking to his parents but he does not talk with them, maybe once a year. Both are in AA, his father is a manic depressant and his mother is bi-polar, great mix for having a child.
I did not know any of that when we were married. My husband does know that some of this could have been passed on but he does not feel that keeping an immaculately clean house is an issue since I am a stay at home mom. Our 3 children were being homeschooled unitl December when I had my first misscarriage and couldn't handle it any longer. They are all doing great, 2 of them top in their classses, and our middle child is adjusting really well (he has learning dissabilities).
The only time that he helps with the cleaning is if I'm away with the children, when I come home the house is scary clean. Since he works 50 hours a week he says the house is my duty.
How do I get at setting boundries at how much I will do, It's not like a weekly chore list that I follow. I just clean until it is done daily. What kind of boundries could I set.
I do not believe in ending a relationship, to me for my family and the best interest of our children it is permanent. My parents ended their marriage when I was 13, and I would never do that to them. We need to work this through. I just do not know where to start and how.

I am hearing everything you are saying and it becomes more clear to me that he needs help.

His parents having mental illness is also a huge red flag .

He has a mental illness and as his wife you have the responsibility to not enable him but get him the help he needs.

I do not think bringing a new baby into the mix is a good idea at all.
Stress makes OCD so much worse.

I suspect that stress may be a contributing factor with your miscarriages as well.

If he refuses counseling,then so be it but for your sanity and your children's,you should go and get educated on how to manage this problem.

Hopefully he will come around and get the help he needs as well.
I highly recommend that you seek counseling for yourself and the children.

His OCD is giving him an excuse to be abusive and there is no excuse for that.

You husband is abusive rather you want to admit it or not. He is verbally abusive to the kids and there is no reason they must vacuum twice a day.
To go on and on and on about something is just crazy. Your children will get to the point they will avoid him at all cost or God forbid they grow up to be just as dysfunctional as he is. He is the way he is because of his parents.

Staying together for the kids is one thing but if they are being emotionally damaged what is the point?
Get some therapy. Get some help on how to counteract your husbands actions with your kids.

Hi again;
No, he is not controlling in anything else. He is pretty good with everything else. We have gone to domincian twice in the past 6 months, once with the children, once just with our 5 year old daughter for my sisters wedding.
We purchased a home two years ago in a new city that we had moved to - I picked the home, crazy me, it is 2000 square feet main level, thought the space would be great for the children, that way they have their own bedrooms and their own livingroom, I thought that way they could keep whatever they wanted down there, but it just means more to clean. I do all the shopping, all the bill paying, he doesn't want to have anything to do with it, doesn't even want to know anything about it.
I can go and visit my sister whenever I want, as long as I take the youngest 2 kids with me since they are too young to leave alone while he is out.
I would have to say that this is the only thing.
Mel

Mel,

Well girlie, you need to get some counseling. He needs it too but if he won't go... find someone who specializes in OCD and talk to them. They will be able to help and can point you in the right direction on how to deal with him. But please put your foot down and let him know you cannot go on like this... it isn't good for you OR your children. Tell him you are getting counseling and if he wants the marriage to work he needs to come with you.

You are going to stay in the relationship no matter what,your parents divorce has made it so you can't look to YOUR needs,only the fact that you would never do something like that, that might be something you might need to reassess.

Stringent goals like that can be damning to the kids, even though you think you had it bad ,that doesn't mean that this situation would end up the same way.I am only saying this for informational purposes,not that I think you should leave him.

Another point on the mental health of the parents, manic depression and bi-polar disorder are the same,just an old name and the new one.

The combination of the parents medical conditions and the fact that they are in recovery from alcohol, were these items known when you got married? or are they something that became apparent during the marriage?

If we are to understand this situation,sometimes we need to ask some questions of our own, like these.

HI
No, I never knew these things before we were married and neither did my husband. His parents always fought until one would leave for a few weeks and they still do this. They did not explain everything to him until a couple of years ago when they checked into a hospital, and then they called him to talk about it from there.
My husband has never done anything like what we have heard from them, but I don't want it to ever start either. His father told him at the hospital that he has been manic depressant for about 20 years and has been medicated for it. When talking to his mother she refers to herself as bipolar but she refuses to take any meds for it. Which one then is the current term?
My husband is not covered for health insurance yet, as his company is still going through the process of health coverage options. He claims that if he were to go to a doctor now then when they get health coverage the insurancee company does not pay for pre-existing issues.
Also in Canada if you have any history of mental illness than you lose your life insurance policy.
Just 2 reasons he won't go in to see a doctor. He is willing to try herbs he says but he still does not think that there is anything wrong .

I have never heard of anyone losing their life insurance policy because they have had a history of mental illness. Is this something you can post a link to, or provide more information? It's news to me, and I'm Canadian, with life insurance, who has bouts of depression that last for sometimes months, and on medication. There has never been a problem with life insurance.

Perhaps he is twisting information to justify not seeking help.

I really don't see this as a problem that can be solved, without some intensive therapy for your husband. I also don't believe he thinks he's okay with his justifications and reasons for being so controlling.

Nobody can diagnose any mental illness without a thourough examination, nor diagnose medication, and counselling.

I didn't realize you were Canadian. You know and he knows that you can get a referral from your family doctor for counselling, assessment etc. and it won't cost a dime. There is nothing out of pocket. I've been there and done it myself several times.

Perhaps the key isn't what he can or cannot do for himself, but rather that he has dug in his heels, and will not entertain the idea that he has a problem. That he has had both parents diagnosed with mental illness does give a few clues, but again, he needs a professional assessment.

Is it possible for you to seek counselling for yourself? I'm not really sure that after 14 years with him, that you can clearly see how his extreme control over you and the children, is affecting you.

HI
No, I never knew these things before we were married and neither did my husband. His parents always faught until one would leave for a few weeks and they still do this.
Perhaps this should have raised awareness for you?


They did not explain everything to him until a couple of years ago when they checked into a hospital, and then they called him to talk about it from there.
How old was he to not understand any of this?


His father told him at the hospital that he has been manic depressant for about 20 years and has been medicated for it.
And he(the son)was oblivious to this?


When talking to his mother she refers to herself as bipolar but she refuses to take any meds for it. Which one then is the current term??

The current term would be bi-polar disorder(manic=high,depressed=low, the 2 different 'poles' in mental health=bi-polar)

Your original question, "how to cope being married to a control freak"; well, it seems you cope quite well.

You have a general understanding of the compulsive nature of his behaviour, and can provide history to back up the claim that his parents likely had some of this influence over him, thus it is understandable how he may have turned out to be the apple that didn't fall far from the tree.

Although his mother is not diagnosed properly, or her symptoms you have described would most certainly have her under medical care, you take as truth that his parents have contributed to the way your husband is now.

You have also presented him as normal in all other aspects of his life, and have narrowed down his control to his own home.

By providing information and presenting him as a good father and husband otherwise, you seem convinced that his disorder, if it is even a disorder- undiagnosed- is sounding more and more reasonable to live with the more posts you make.

If there is no disorder, medically per se, and his controlling behaviour is abusive, you also justify that by implying that it's not really hurting people. Even though if he sits in a chair and sees something out of place, he loses it. Not to mention your son vacuums twice a day.

Whatever his problem is, his control over you, his children, and his home, is something that only either an extreme level of mental illness, or an extreme level of stress causing very upsetting behaviour, continues, as per status quo.

If you challenge his authority over you, the peace is shattered, he will feel challenged, and will step up to the challenge because he is not about to let go of the environment he not only has created, but the environment he is determined to control. If he loses control, he loses his feeling of security and he becomes vunerable to his own behaviour; I doubt he will allow that to happen. In fact, I suspect that his behvaviour will only increase on the control meter.

And, by you deciding to justify, and allow this control over yourself and your children, must mean you are getting something in return. Security, a good life, college funds? I have no idea.

But the bottom line is, your needs must be being met here somewhere for you to compromise so much of yourself to support and manintain his control over you.

So if you are fine with the way things are, more power to you.

But, if you seriously want to address the hard issues of what goes on in your home, meaning why he does what he does, and why you allow it, you'll have to get your head out of the sand and make some hard decisions.

Just my opinion.

While I cannot diagnose his problems, I do know that there can be no change until you stop enabling his behavior. For whatever reason you have for going along with his behavior, that has to stop, or why should he even consider what he is doing is wrong, or outrageous in your eyes.

The effect on the kids may be more profound if he continues this way, than if you divorced. While I am not saying divorce him, I am saying you must change your approach to how you relate and interact for him to change.

If he won't go to counseling with you, then you should go alone to be guided through the process of setting the boundaries of good behavior for yourself, and standing firm when he crosses them. Him or any one else for that matter.

Its important that you know your own direction and limitations before you expect it of others, and a third party can guide you to that.

Bottom line is letting your limits be known to him, and also your expectations of caring and respect.

Abusive and abrasive behavior is unacceptable. For the sake of the kids, or NOT!!

Hi again;
No, he is not controlling in anything else. He is pretty good with everything else. We have gone to domincian twice in the past 6 months, once with the children, once just with our 5 year old daughter for my sisters wedding.
We purchased a home two years ago in a new city that we had moved to - I picked the home, crazy me, it is 2000 square feet main level, thought the space would be great for the children, that way they have their own bedrooms and their own livingroom, I thought that way they could keep whatever they wanted down there, but it just means more to clean. I do all the shopping, all the bill paying, he doesn't want to have anything to do with it, doesn't even want to know anything about it.
I can go and visit my sister whenever I want, as long as I take the youngest 2 kids with me since they are too young to leave alone while he is out.
I would have to say that this is the only thing.
Mel

Are you saying he has never done your job?
Wow.. if not he needs to do it for a week and as good as you do ! I can't wait to see if his thinking does not change after that.:rolleyes: