George Washington has 2 books over due from the NY public library. One of the books was the "Law of Nations," which deals with international relations.

Emmerich de Vattel: The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758) (http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/vattel/)

The other was volume 12 of debates from Britain's House of Commons.This is a 14 volume collection that the library still possesses sans volume 12 .

Both books were due on Nov. 2, 1789.

This discovery was made in a ledger in a rubbish heap in the library's basement, revealing the names of all the people who had borrowed books from the library between July 1789 and April 1792.The ledger also shows that Aaron Burr, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay all borrowed books in that time. But they returned them.

The library is not looking to collect late fees (adjusted for inflation, $300,000 even though I don't believe library fines are adjusted in that manner)
But the library is very interested in having the books returned.

George is probably still reading the books.

As for the dufus in office now, I seriously doubt he's reading much of anything except his teleprompter. Maybe travel brochures on where to spend his next vacation on the taxpayers at exorbitent weekly rental rates. The summer is coming up fast and I'm sure he's already picked out a nice, pricey assortment of summer vacations already.

I don't think George Bush could read very well.:rolleyes:

I don't think George Bush could read very well.:rolleyes:

But, what about George Washington?

I intended this to be a fluff posting and did not expect it to turn into a commentary on the current President or the recent one.
But OK since that is where it turned...

The current President would not care what the Brits say in their Commons. He hates them so much that one of his 1st acts in office was to insult them by returning a gift of a bust of Winston Churchill that the Brits gave us. The normal procedure if he did not want the bust in the White House would've been to store it in one of the gvt warehouses. But by returning it ,he was making a statement of his dislike of the Brits. The Brit tabloids have frequently mentioned that when discussing his treatment of BP .

He probably would read 'The Law of Nations .....'and is wondering how he can supplant the Constitution with laws from other nations (mostly Venezuela ) It would sit on his shelf next to his copy of William Ayers 'Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals '.

President Bush read extensively and the list of the books he was reading were routinely part of the public record. Probably the most influential book that shaped his foreign policies was Natan Sharansky's 'The Case for Democracy. The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror'.

Washington of course was a prolific reader and a genuine Renaissance Man.

I think the current president has read a bit too much Superman.

http://jdrewscott.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/obama-superman.jpg

Bush had a dictionary to look up the words he didn't understand.
That's why he still has the books, he's only half way through one of them.

Cute, but W. has a Bachelor of Arts degree in history from Yale and a Master of Business Administration from the Harvard Business School. His education at those two institutions was fraudulent?

Cute, but W. has a Bachelor of Arts degree in history from Yale and a Master of Business Administration from the Harvard Business School. His education at those two institutions was fraudulent?

I'm saying what I think and that's that... Didn't mean to start an argument. I do not like the current President nor did I like Bush.

Who's arguing?

Who's arguing?

Bush couldn't give a good speech if his life depended on it. I cringed just as I do now when Obama gives a speech. Bush was no Rhodes Scholar. You guys and I mean Exy and all of you are very intelligent.. and I'm not saying that in jest. I read a lot of your post and although a lot of them I don't understand , they are pretty great.

Do me a favor , find some books by the people who George went to school with and I don't mean people who write a pack of lies. I mean reputable people who tell about his school and College days. He is not a smart man. I voted for McCain by the way. A war hero. I'm not going to argue.

I'm not going to argue.

OK. How about discuss?

OK. How about discuss?

You guys are way to smart for me. I really mean that! I appreciate the offer:D Sorry Tom didn't mean to mess up your thread. Wonder what Clinton read:eek:

Clinton I am sure has a diverse reading list and is one of the 1st class intellects in the political world. But ;for raw brain power ,Nixon had them all beat as a graduate of Duke Law School . What did it mean ? Nothing Nixon ,Carter (top 10% at Naval Academy) ,and Clintoon's Presidencies were flawed /or outright failures .

Here is an interesting read.

Bush's bad rap (http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/Election/bush011401.htm)

Bottom line the way I read it is that intellect is in no way a barometer of how successful a Presidency will be. Note that history is judging Harry Truman's to be a highly successful Presidency .He is the least educated of the modern Presidents.

Bush was a B-C student in 2 Ivy League schools and scored in the top 16 percentile in the SAT exams. (1204 accumulated score )
Bush/Gore Grades and SAT Scores (http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html)


Statistically, Bush's test performance places him in the top 16 percent of prospective college students — hardly the mark of a dimwit. Of course, the SAT is not designed as an IQ test. But it is highly correlated with general intelligence, to the tune of .80. In plain language, the SAT is two parts a measure of general intelligence and one part a measure of specific scholastic reasoning skills and abilities.

If Bush could score in the top 16 percent of college applicants on the SAT, he would almost certainly rank higher on tests of general intelligence, which are normed with reference to the general population. But even if his rank remained constant at the 84th-percentile level of his SAT score, it would translate to an IQ score of 115.


George Washington was largely self taught and became a master of many disciplines.

You guys are way to smart for me. I really mean that! I appreciate the offer:D Sorry Tom didn't mean to mess up your thread. Wonder what Clinton read:eek:

No, no, no... the only that's too smart for anyone is excon. He's even too smart for his own good.

Clinton probably enjoys reading Nina Burleigh (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2007/11/01/nina-kneepads-burleigh-ideal-reviewer-hillary-books). :D

Clinton I am sure has a diverse reading list and is one of the 1st class intellects in the political world. But ;for raw brain power ,Nixon had them all beat as a graduate of Duke Law School . What did it mean ? Nothing Nixon ,Carter (top 10% at Naval Academy) ,and Clintoon's Presidencies were flawed /or outright failures .

here is an interesting read.

Bush's bad rap (http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/Election/bush011401.htm)

Bottom line the way I read it is that intellect is in no way a barometer of how successful a Presidency will be. Note that history is judging Harry Truman's to be a highly successful Presidency .He is the least educated of the modern Presidents.

Bush was a B-C student in 2 Ivy League schools and scored in the top 16 percentile in the SAT exams. (1204 accumulated score )
Bush/Gore Grades and SAT Scores (http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html)



George Washington was largely self taught and became a master of many disciplines.

I know you are going to laugh at this but I think Nixon will have his place as one of the best Presidents we have ever had in our generation. He was a great diplomat and he got us out of Vietnam. Go ahead...

OK I'll go at it .Nixon's stategy in Vietnam was the correct course;especially adopting General Abrams plan for the war.. . No doubt about it . But ,had it succeeded ,it wouldn't be "he got us out "... it would've been 'Vietnamization' was a success .We most likely would've stayed around a little longer and left when the job was done;with a free South Vietnam able to defend itself .
But Nixon's abuses of his office ensured he would leave in disgrace . That is just the fact.
The reason we "got out " of Vietnam was that the Democrats in Congress betrayed the South Vietnamese ;defunded the strategy before it was completed thus ensuring defeat.

I have mixed feelings about the rest of the Nixon foreign policy. He was very much a Cold War Realpolitilk President. Which means that along with the defense of freedom there were Machiavellian accommodations with some very bad people who did not share our values .
I think even less of Nixon's domestic policies. He was a proponent of big government solutions .

ok I'll go at it .Nixon's stategy in Vietnam was the correct course;especially adopting General Abrams plan for the war.. ...No doubt about it . But ,had it succeeded ,it wouldn't be "he got us out " ....it would've been 'Vietnamization' was a success .We most likely would've stayed around a little longer and left when the job was done;with a free South Vietnam able to defend itself .
But Nixon's abuses of his office ensured he would leave in disgrace . That is just the fact.
The reason we "got out " of Vietnam was that the Democrats in Congress betrayed the South Vietnamese ;defunded the strategy before it was completed thus ensuring defeat.

I have mixed feelings about the rest of the Nixon foreign policy. He was very much a Cold War Realpolitilk President. Which means that along with the defense of freedom there were Machiavellian accomodations with some very bad people who did not share our values .
I think even less of Nixon's domestic policies. He was a proponent of big government solutions .

Thanks... I didn't know some of this. Now I'm a little smarter :) Later

Hello kit:

Let me remind you that the people who think George Bush is smart, also think Sarah Palin is smart. She's not.

Tom seems to think the amount of education one has is indicative of one's intelligence... But, it ain't so, I tell you. I didn't finish the 11th grade, and I'm DAMN smart.

excon

I didn't finish the 11th grade, and I'm DAMN smart.

Eek, something else we have in common. ;)

The current president has apparently never had his nose in a math book. He thinks spending $2 billion for 1,500 permanent jobs is a bargain (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/07/weekly-remarks-saxby-chambliss-obama.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+topoftheticket+%28Top+of+the+Ti cket%29).

The current president has apparently never had his nose in a math book. He thinks spending $2 billion for 1,500 permanent jobs is a bargain (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/07/weekly-remarks-saxby-chambliss-obama.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+topoftheticket+%28Top+of+the+Ti cket%29).

Please.. Obama with all his faults is still the President. That being said... Bush actually made me cringe when he gave a speech. "Is our children learning" is only one of the mistakes he made and that laugh heh heh heh. He was stupid! Clinton a player , but smart and charismatic. Nixon.. I liked him. I was very young when he was in office, but I liked him. Reagan... a nice man. Jimmy Carter.. he was too good and had to many morals to be President. OK guys now lets talk conspiracy theory in the JFK assassanation?. Sarah Palin is a phony. Most women can see that. She's
As phony as a fake Kate Spade purse.

Tom seems to think the amount of education one has is indicative of one's intelligence

I said nothing of the kind. In fact I pointed out that Truman (despite his low ratings and lack of a higher degree ) was a very successful President.

You know what I think ; the conventional wisdom the way I read it is that Republicans are stupid no matter who they are (the exception being the intelligent but deviously crooked Nixon) .

Across the board the most successful Republicans are disparaged... Ford ,Reagan ,Clarence Thomas ,GW Bush and now Palin .

And no matter how incompetent Democrats are they are the smartest people on the planet .

I said nothing of the kind. In fact I pointed out that Truman (despite his low ratings and lack of a higher degree ) was a very successful President.

You know what I think ; the conventional wisdom the way I read it is that Republicans are stupid no matter who they are (the exception being the intelligent but deviously crooked Nixon) .

Across the board the most successful Republicans are disparaged ... Ford ,Reagan ,Clarence Thomas ,GW Bush and now Palin .

And no matter how incompetent Democrats are they are the smartest people on the planet .

Ok... Thanks Tom... John F Kennedy, Bill Clinton, FDR. The only reason I disparage Bush is because he is stupid. Sarah Palin is a phony.
I believe if McCain had chosen a different running mate he would be president today. Joe Biden is a yes man. Cheny was so deeply involved with enron that he should be in prison and he's not a very good hunting buddy. I'm through arguing now. :)

Obammy reads fairy tales and not the kind you think.

Obammy reads fairy tales and not the kind you think.
What kind? Porn? Muslim hymns? Please enlighten us and show us some proof!

I think the "Fairy Tale " was a book called "Mission Accomplished" written and illustrated by George Bush.

What books does the President read?
Hello tom:

Like Sara Palin, he reads "all of 'em".

excon

I think the "Fairy Tale " was a book called "Mission Accomplished" written and illustrated by George Bush.

Now, now, now - we all know that Obama won the Iraq war (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/joe-biden-update-larry-king-iraq-obama-sarah-palin.html).

Now, now, now - we all know that Obama won the Iraq war (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/joe-biden-update-larry-king-iraq-obama-sarah-palin.html).



Speechless we all know who told the big lie about , WMD in Iraq? The reason for little Georgies actions was and I quote him, "He tried to kill my daddy". Remember..?. I also like you all so please speak in words I can understand. I don't have a college education and like GB I have to look up your big words in the dictionary.

I've heard that he likes "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. I know I'll be accused of being a right-wing nutbar, but I've heard it from Maclean's and other respected magazines.

I've heard that he likes "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. I know I'll be accused of being a right-wing nutbar, but I've heard it from Maclean's and other respected magazines.





He honestly does read books like "Pilgrims Progress and Profiles in Courage". He read a lot about Eisenhower and FDR also.

Hello earl, right wing nut bar:

IF it's one of his favorites, he sure isn't ACTING like a radical... I was hoping that he actually WOULD act like a radical. But, he hasn't. The things that are MOST important to ME, is the Bush/Cheney Doctrine. Obama embraced it whole hog. It's what I hated about the Bush administration. And, NOTHING has changed...

So, for ME, Obama is a RIGHTWINGER.

Health care?? That, like Bush's prescription drug coverage before, is a GIFT to big pharma. I wanted him to make a one sentence health care - MEDICARE FOR ALL... But, NOO.. He did something else. Do you hear any insurance companies bellyaching about the law?? Nope. Wonder WHY that is?? I don't.

So, Alinsky's book might be one of his favorites, but he ACTS like a rightwinger. What he DOES is more important than what he READS.

excon

Hello earl, right wing nut bar:

IF it's one of his favorites, he sure isn't ACTING like a radical... I was hoping that he actually WOULD act like a radical. But, he hasn't. The things that are MOST important to ME, is the Bush/Cheney Doctrine. Obama embraced it whole hog. It's what I hated about the Bush administration. And, NOTHING has changed....

So, for ME. Obama is a RIGHTWINGER.

Health care??? That, like Bush's prescription drug coverage before, is a GIFT to big pharma. I wanted him to make a one sentence health care - MEDICARE FOR ALL... But, NOO.. He did something else. Do you hear any insurance companies ing about the law??? Nope. Wonder WHY that is??? I don't.

So, Alinsky's book might be one of his favorites, but he ACTS like a rightwinger. What he DOES is more important than what he READS.

excon

If I could give you a greenie I would.:D

I don't agree with the federal government's decision to try and overturn Arizona's immigration policies. PC is going too far. How are states supposed to deal with illegal immigration without using some kind of profiling?

I don't agree with the federal government's decision to try and overturn Arizona's immigration policies. PC is going too far. How are states supposed to deal with illegal immigration without using some kind of profiling?Hello again, earl:

You HIT the nail on the head. States are NOT supposed to deal with immigration issues. In fact, that IS the basis for the lawsuit. The Federal Government should be doing so - not the states. The GOOD thing about the Arizona law, is that it brings the issue to the fore once again...

The problem is, politicians of BOTH stripes are too cowardly to pass comprehensive immigration law. But, we can't have 50 different immigration laws... We just can't. One is hard enough.

excon

If You dare.. just a little humor
Heh, heh, heh

The Complete Bushisms - By Jacob Weisberg - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/76886) - 61k


Ok.. bye... I'm out of here...

Speechless we all know who told the big lie about , WMD in Iraq?

You mean like, everyone? If no one believed he had WMD's then what was the UN doing with all those resolutions and stuff before Bush was in Office... like the Clinton years when he made regime change in Iraq official US policy?

OK, that's enough of that :)

Hello again, earl:

You HIT the nail on the head. States are NOT supposed to deal with immigration issues. In fact, that IS the basis for the lawsuit. The Federal Government should be doing so - not the states. The GOOD thing about the Arizona law, is that it brings the issue to the fore once again...

The problem is, politicians of BOTH stripes are too cowardly to pass comprehensive immigration law. But, we can't have 50 different immigration laws.... We just can't. One is hard enough.

excon

Never heard you complain about localities that defy Federal supremacy before when they declared themselves sanctuaries.

Speecless.. Clintons hands were tied.. when he tried to do something about Sadaam he was lied to just as we were.

So when Clintoon was President he was lied to about Saddam's WMDs... as was the UN ,and every other nation on earth. But... when GW Bush became President he was the one lying .

Was he also the one lying to Clintoon and the UN ?

so when Clintoon was President he was lied to about Saddam's WMDs ...as was the UN ,and every other nation on earth. But ...when GW Bush became President he was the one lying .

Was he also the one lying to Clintoon and the UN ?

Yes!

so when Clintoon was President he was lied to about Saddam's WMDs ...Hello again, tom:

Yeah, that Clintoon... He and George believed the same thing... But, hold on there, podner. Clintoon DIDN'T START a war over it, did he?? BIG DIFFERENCE.

excon

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, that Clintoon.... He and George believed the same thing... But, hold on there, podner. Clintoon DIDN'T START a war over it, did he??? BIG DIFFERENCE.

excon





Don't forget what his reasons for going into Iraq! The big liar said there were WMD. Everybody thinks Kennedy was the President who first sent soldiers to Vietnam. WRONG.. Eisenhower sent the first as "peace ambassadors" Kennedy did send in the first combat troops and LBJ kept sending them. Nixon withdrew troops after the fiasco at Kent State.

Ex ,
Clintoon never stopped waging war against Saddam. Oh wait... you think enforcing no-fly zones ,blockades and sanction regimes... that firing on Iraqi troops from the sky and unleashing hundreds of Tomahawk missiles on Baghdad from submarine and air assets ,and on other strategic targets in Iraq wasn't waging war. I understand..

The truth is that ,much like in Korea , a cease fire doesn't end a war. The truth is that we never stopped being at war against Saddam Hussein after Desert Storm concluded neatly after 100 hours.

Kit

Your history fails to mention the role Truman played .Truman sent the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) to Indochina March 1950.He just claimed they were not sent as combat troops.
The French were doing the bulk of the fighting ,but US "advisors" and substantial funding went into the effort as well. The Vietnam war was a hot spot in the Cold war that was a continuation of US policy that 5 US President's signed onto.The US involvement in the war lasted 25 years (for those who would have you believe that Afghanistan is soon to become America's longest war .)

Tom.. after 9/11, Afghanistan was the objective. Osama Bin Laden was the objective. Had Bush done what he said he was going to do and focus on Osama, where do you think we would be right now as far as our young men and women who are there?

He wanted Saddam and he was going to get him at all cost. It wasn't his children fighting and dying but he didn't care.

If Osama Bin Laden is still alive which I doubt why are we still there? Why does my child have three tours of duty already under his belt and will go back.

You're very educated! What should Obama do. Drop the mohab bomb? Bring back the draft? Those countries have fought since time began.

What's your solution?

Tom.. after 9/11, Afghanistan was the objective. Osama Bin Laden was the objective. Had Bush done what he said he was going to do and focus on Osama, where do you think we would be right now as far as our young men and women who are there?

So you agree with the President then that this is the necessary war to wage. We are in agreement.
The trouble is that President Obama never really believed it. What Excon identified is what typically happens when an outsider who uses over the top flaming rhetoric suddenly finds themselves as an insider. I told Excon before Obama was sworn in that he would conduct foreign policy pretty much as all his predecessors had... just as Kennedy /Johnson continued the policies of Truman and Ike during the Cold War (of which Vietnam was but one theater) .

The same is true of what I call the war against jihadistan (I don't like the terms used like war on terrorism... that doesn't identify the enemy) . Afghanistan ,Iraq ,Somalia,Yemen and many other places known and unknown to the public are theaters of operation . Some are more crucial than others but all need to be engaged .

I am willing to conceed that in retrospect there wasn't enough attention paid to Afghanistan after AQ and the Taliban were driven out . But I will not concede that Iraq was never part of the war against jihadistan . As I already commented . We never stopped being at war against Iraq.
If you want to place blame as to why the Iraq theater became a priority then place it where it belongs. The UN had a sanction regime against Saddam because he wasn't cooperating with the UN about the status of hisWMD. This included things like embargoes on the sale of Iraqi oil . However ; they put a provision in their sanctions that Saddam could sell some of it if it in turn went to feeding and providing medicine for children.
Well he was selling that oil and keeping the money . Not only that ,but he bribed key top members of the UN and various nations (most of whom led the opposition to the renewal of the war) to violate the provisions of the sanctions .

The UN was counting on the US and Britain to enforce their sanctions while at the same time it was violating the provisions of the sanctions itself.

This led to a weakening of the sanction program that the US military was enforcing (including the many times I stated above where weapons were used in response) ,and it threatened to completely collapse.

Internal documents that were retrieved from Iraq demonstrate that if Saddam did not have actual munitions of WMD ,he retained the infrastructure and capablility to swiftly reconstitute his WMD program . The reason that we did not find the stockpile we expected was because the delay in securing the necessary sanctions to reinitiate the war gave Saddam the time to move his weapons out of the country.

If Osama Bin Laden is still alive which I doubt why are we still there? Why does my child have three tours of duty already under his belt and will go back.

You're very educated! What should Obama do. Drop the mohab bomb? Bring back the draft? Those countries have fought since time began.

What's your solution?



I don't know if OBL is alive or dead .His organization is still a reality . The reason we are still there is to prevent AQ from establishing a base of operations in a nation acting as a state sponsor.
I don't know how your son feels about the war . But he is a volunteer . There is no draft ,and I don't think anyone wants one.. the military certainly doesn't .

I think the President has done the right things in recent days in changing leadership in the theater and at CENTCOM yesterday. I think he needs to change ambassadors and bring Ryan Crocker over to Afghanistan. I think he has to scap the public commitment to a set date of withdrawal . That is self defeating . The people inclinded to cooperate there will not do so if they think we aren't committed .
No ,I don't think dropping bigger bombs works . But the COIN doctrine needs more time than the President is allowing .

But I will not concede that Iraq was never part of the war against jihadistan .

I think he has to scap the public committment to a set date of withdrawal . That is self defeating . The people inclinded to cooperate there will not do so if they think we aren't committed . Hello again, tom:

Couple things.

Saddam was NOT a terrorist, and did NOT support Bin Laden.

In terms of the withdrawal date, I don't disagree with you - in part. It DOES let the enemy know that all they have to do is wait... AND, if that's ALL that happens before we split, then you are correct... It's self defeating

But, having a withdrawal date ALSO let's our FRIENDS know that they have to step up to the plate by X date, because they're going to be on their own after that... If they don't step up, after we've been there THIS long, it ain't NEVER going to happen. Staying there AFTER they've PROVEN they're not going to step up, means that we'll be there FOREVER. And, we ain't going to DO that. So, if we follow that strategy, it's not self defeating at all. It's a WINNER.

excon

I think he reads Everyone Poops by Taro Gomi.

Ex I don't disagree with that either. But it is a mistake to make the date public. You can squeeze Karzai all you want to behind the scenes.

But a better strategy would've been to not endorse the results of the stolen elections there last year. That sent a signal that Karzai is a puppet (which he is not... far from it). Any sober observer realizes that Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah was the winner.

I think he reads Everyone Poops by Taro Gomi.





My son serves proudly and he doesn't talk to me about it.. he talks to his dad if he talks about it at all. But yes he knows we have to stay until it's proven the people can take care of themselves. I don't think anyone understands how anybody can align themselves with a president who had one thing in mind after 9/11.. to get Saddam.


The millions of dollars they found in Iraq what happened to hit? Do you think maybe Cheney had a hand in seeing it "got back to the Iraqi people"? No way.. No one knows where it is.

Hey you all... I'm sorry about making waves. I'm unsubscribing now. Hope you all are not upset with me. Just had to vent a little... Kit

Hope you all are not upset with me. Just had to vent a little... Kit


Not at all . Enjoy the debate/discussion. Don't be a stranger .

Not at all . Enjoy the debate/discussion. Don't be a stranger .

Thanks Tom, Exy, speechless, Nk and all of you. I just like to argue sometimes.:D

Thanks Tom, Exy, speechless, Nk and all of you. I just like to argue sometimes.:D

So do we, jump right on in any time.

So do we, jump right on in any time.

Yep... Bring it on:D

The current president keeps THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO by Karl Marx at arms reach at all times.

Thanks Tom, Exy, speechless, Nk and all of you. I just like to argue sometimes.:D

Ooooh, looky, fresh meat! Just saying...