Obama says "we've been there" in his declination to support further Moon missions...

Yet he says he's eager to support trying to land someone on an asteroid.

I'm not any smarter than Barak Hussein is, but dang ... doesn't he have any decent advisors?

... or just does he just ignore them? :(

BoBo has watched far too many "Star Trek" episodes.

The Warp drive isn't due to be invented any time soon, and that's the only POSSIBLE way we could ever do what he claims we will do after firing all the engineers that would be needed for such a major undertaking.

We all know his advisors are liars and tax cheats... we can expand that to dumb taxcheating liars.

Perhaps he thinks his homeboys in the Chicago projects will dream up a solution during a crack induced stupor.


They do know Star Trek is NOT on the science channel... its science fiction... don't they?

There seems to be genuine disagreement between those who want to go back to the moon as an intermediate step towards going to Mars ;and those who think we can bypass the moon on the way.

I'm of the opinion that the development of the heavy lift booster should continue ,and that a colony should be established by the lunar poles .

Water has been found there and that can be used to create hydrogen fuel for further exploration in the solar system .
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/11/13/water.moon.nasa/index.html

The truth is that he would like to get rid of NASA ;and I think he would've except for the fact that his Democrat delegation in Congress reminded him that Johnson cleverly spread NASA around as the ultimate pork ,and many districts have a stake in the perpetuation of the agency .

But the President really doesn't have a vision of the future in space ,so he had some cubicle dwelling flunkies draw up his list of goals .

His vision for ISS that the US primarily built ? Well we'll given them a 1960s capsule to dock there in case they need a quick exit ;but he won't extend the Shuttle missions until the next generation of low earth capable boosters are developed . In the meantime we will pay $55.8 million to the Ruskies per astronaut to hitch a ride on a soyuz fire cracker .

He then asked private companies to develop a future launcher I'm OK with that... it is already being done by Elon Musk of Space X and Virgin Galactic founder Richard Branson .But in the meantime it seems silly that we shouldn't continue the
shuttle missions until such a time that the next generation is ready to fly. The problems with the heat tiles appear to have been solved

Space exploration beyond the already developed still needs to be pursued .
Nasa has done wonderful things with robotics ,but except the Hubble ,it has not really done much to inspire the imaginations of children to pursue a careet in physics and the sciences . I don't think landing on an asteroid qualifies as a generation inspiring event.

Landing on an asteroid?. sounds like Zero has been watching too many Bruce Willis movies .

Somebody tell JBeaucaire to get a job with Virgin Galactic, quick.

It may actually be a good idea to put space into private hands. We might be able to count on something lasting past November then.

Warp drive has already been invented its just in baby shoes at this time.

As far as NASA's redirection he is missing the boat completely. By undertaking moon missions and the possible settlement of the moon is how you can get to the asteriods and back. NASA already had plans and paperwork in place to harvest sunlight and beam it back here for "nonpoluting" energy. Also it will take a NASA to jump start everything before private enterprise can be involved. There is too much risk otherwise. Its just plain ignorance to turn a blind eye like that on a successful program and a dark day for not only the U.S. but the planet.

I've spent a LOT of time... at Goddard Flight Center. I know a few people there quite well. And yeah... I know where the center dealling with the Hubbel is at and have been in it numerous times over the years.

Nasa won't get over the "Brain Drain" Obama will impose on them.

You can't retask burger Flippers and Parking garage attendants to do what NASA needs.

And Chicago project dwelling drug dealers and welfare recipients certainly aren't a more worthy recipient of tax dollars.

Snoop Dogg isn't going to create a Shuttle replacement... as much as he might envision flying in one during a stoner hallucination.

BO has turned out to be smarter than the average bear, he has broken the government monopoly on space. The move to get space into private hands has excellent potential and therefore massive investment might be premature but it is a good recover measure. Branson has already shown there is the will in private enterprise to be part of the initiative. BO knows the US can't afford space for the next 10 years but setting the goal on Mars he knows that investment in R&D will continue because he has dared to say what the average person is thinking "we have been there before" the moon just doesn't capture the imagination in the way Mars does. A little later it will be convenient to discover how an intermediate base might be useful

It is swred politics to cut the program that won't get political support anyway

Far more likely its going to kill it altogether. Nothing shrewd in stupidity... and I know far more about the Space program than he is capable of grasping. And no, NASA isn't chasing after me either. Nobodys even seen if he's taken a physics class much less passed it. All his records are still national secrets for some reason.

Just not enough private money LEFT for private investment after the big tax hikes hit next year.

Assuming people even get back to work that soon, which is also highly unlikely with the massive tax hikes draining corporate resources that might have gone to new hires or expansion.

So far Branson is close to getting suborbital ;about as far as Alan Shepard got... and Branson's enterprise is not exactly on solid financial footing .

I am in favor of the privatization of some of the stuff NASA does.I would like to see cargo and passengers to ISS travel on private vehicles ;and I think space tourism is a fine idea. Hope to go one of these days .

But space exploration is for the grownups .

Far more likely its going to kill it alltogether. Nothing shrewd in stupidity....and I know far more about the Space program than he is capible of grasping. And no, NASA isn't chasing after me either. Nobodys even seen if he's taken a physics class much less passed it. All his records are still national secrets for some reason.

Just not enough private money LEFT for private investment after the big tax hikes hit next year.

Assuming people even get back to work that soon, which is also highly unlikely with the massive tax hikes draining corporate resources that might have gone to new hires or expansion.

I think you have just agreed with me that the US can't afford space at the moment, If there is no private money, there certainly isn't any public money. Sometimes it is politically expedient to state the obvious, it does't fit the yankee gung ho attitude, and, "yes we can" went out the window. NASA would have been better off getting the aircraft industry to adapt some of their bigger craft to a new vehicle it would have demonstrated more imagination than a capsule on top of a rocket

I think you have just agreed with me that the US can't afford space at the moment, If there is no private money, there certainly isn't any public money. Sometimes it is politically expedient to state the obvious, it does't fit the yankee gung ho attitude, and, "yes we can" went out the window. NASA would have been better off getting the aircraft industry to adapt some of their bigger craft to a new vehicle it would have demonstrated more imagination than a capsule on top of a rocket

Not the way I read it... Government investment in the space program has spawned many advances. I do not believe we would recognise the world today without them.

NASA is a FAR better investment than bailing out financial corporations based on their political contributions... And those who gave more to the republicans... were told to take a hike... while those who gave more to the Democrats got massive bailout money. Nothing based on merit in who got what.

What scares me most about having a brain drain at NASA and them going to private enterprise is that at least while at NASA if it were 100 scientists then they all could openly speak to one another where in the private sector if they are divided then that pool will be drained by silence. There may be many many ideas that won't see the light of day because it isn't "profitable" enough. I hope NASA manages to stay afloat and continue to be a leader amongst our brightest minds.

What scares me most about having a brain drain at NASA and them going to private enterprise is that atleast while at NASA if it were 100 scientists then they all could openly speak to one another where in the private sector if they are divided then that pool will be drained by silence. There may be many many ideas that wont see the light of day because it isnt "profitable" enough. I hope NASA manages to stay afloat and continue to be a leader amongst our brightest minds.

They didn't suggest there isn't a role for NASA just that there is no money for a repeat performance. Ultimately the enterprises that government invent they privatise. The chinese will go to the moon and there will be advances from that and they will commercialise them. Science is about incremental improvement and it doesn't often take risks so closeting scientists where they can only measure their performance by reference to each other is not a good thing. We don't need more million dollar screwdrivers

The chinese will go to the moon and there will be advances from that and they will commercialise them.

They go to the moon with stolen and /or technology obtained through shady methods. There is absolutely nothing innovative in what the Chinese will do.

History tells us that Queen Isabella told Columbus there just wasn't the money available to finance exploration...

Hello:

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say there's a bunch of right wingers on this thread who think government is pretty good and want spend some of your tax dollars on it.

Sure sounds that way to me. But, what do I know?

excon

They didn't suggest there isn't a role for NASA just that there is no money for a repeat performance. Ultimately the enterprises that government invent they privatise. The chinese will go to the moon and there will be advances from that and they will commercialise them. Science is about incremental improvement and it doesn't often take risks so closeting scientists where they can only measure their performance by reference to each other is not a good thing. We don't need more million dollar screwdrivers

I have to disagree about your assessment of science. They do take risks. And that is how goals are achieved and how equations are proved. Theory is just that until it can be repeated. Even when they were creating the atomic bomb they really didn't know what was going to happen. The proving grounds of discovery are the risks taken to get there.

Hello:

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say there's a bunch of right wingers on this thread who think government is pretty good and want spend some of your tax dollars on it.

Sure sounds that way to me. But, what do I know?

exconNASA is a far better use of my tax money than supporting "Tyron" and his twelve kids by twelve different women living in public housing... who are all too lazy to get a job.

You ARE aware that The Apollo missions are directly responsible for semiconductors... and everything that made possible since.

History tells us that Queen Isabella told Columbus there just wasn't the money available to finance exploration...

Yeah and look what that got us tobacco and the clap. In hindsight it might have been better to have listened

NASA is a far better use of my tax money than supporting "Tyron" and his twelve kids by twelve different women living in public housing...who are all too lazy to get a job.

You ARE aware that The Apollo missions are directly responsible for semiconductors....and everything that made possible since.

Tell me again cause I'm dump, exactly what benefit has that been to us

They go to the moon with stolen and /or technology obtained through shady methods. There is absolutely nothing innovative in what the Chinese will do.

Well maybe, but they must be doing something right because they have a vibrant economy and you don't. You can suggest they stole the technology but in reality you gave it to them along with your industries.

Hello:

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd say there's a bunch of right wingers on this thread who think government is pretty good and want spend some of your tax dollars on it.

Sure sounds that way to me. But, what do I know?

excon

Yes it's strange what government programs are good and what are bad. Spend tax dollars on more military technology that isn't worth it and that's OK but save a life and that's bad. NASA needs new blood, its thinking is out of date and if you read between the lines that is what BO said, How do you change the guard painlessly, you pull the plug on their pet programs. Suddenly this old thinking finds a home in the private sector

Ex ,investment in science is a traditional acceptable role of government . You mischaracterize us by stating we don't think there is any role for government .

There is also of course a national security component in space exploration.

Clete ,the Chinese economy is a Potamkin village ballon waiting for the mother of all ballon burts .

Much of the American technology they have was given to them for campaign funds by the Clintonoids .But much was also stolen by outright espionage,intellectual property rights violations ,and patent violation.
There economy exists because of currency manipulation ,trade pact violation that creates trade imbalances suppression of freedom in their country that stifles consumerism and allows them to be a one sided export giant. They horde the money from foreign purchases rather than letting it be used for the purchase of imports their consumers want.

Right now they have created a massive real estate bubble to "make work " because consumer demand world wide has slowed during the economic downturn. But there is no occupancy for their real estate development .
Remember that massive Olympics construction that was done ? The whole thing is ready for bulldozing because it is unused .

Back to NASA.

The President did sort of promise to continue to fund research on heavy lift rocketry (you can't make it to an asteroid otherwise) ;but he kicked the can down the road and said that he would commit to a decision to which heavy lift plan to build in 2015 .(Well into the next President's 1st term).This could be the emptiest of his many empty promises .

I do believe that more of our problems on this ball of dirt can be solved by getting industry out where energy is perpetually free and raw materials are waiting to be mined and pollution is impossible than by "exploring inner space," whether that means oceanography or psychology.

Science fiction? Just like portable computers and television and microwave cooking and the internet, it certainly is.

The question here is who's going to fund it. I'd rather see GE or US Steel going into orbit than NASA or the People's Army.

Cats ,even when NASA was the lead agency in lunar exploration the agency was purchasing their technology from private industry. There is room for both a government role in research and scientific exploration as well as a private sector role .

Ex ,investment in science is a traditional acceptable role of government . You mischaracterize us by stating we don't think there is any role for government .

There is also of course a national security component in space exploration.

Clete ,the Chinese economy is a Potamkin village ballon waiting for the mother of all ballon burts .

Much of the American technology they have was given to them for campaign funds by the Clintonoids .But much was also stolen by outright espionage,intellectual property rights violations ,and patent violation.
There economy exists because of currency manipulation ,trade pact violation tht creates trade imbalances suppression of freedom in their country that stifles consumerism and allows them to be a one sided export giant. They horde the money from foreign purchases rather than letting it be used for the purchase of imports their consumers want.

Right now they have created a massive real estate bubble to "make work " because consumer demand world wide has slowed during the economic downturn. But there is no occupancy for their real estate development .
Remember that massive Olympics construction that was done ? The whole thing is ready for bulldozing because it is unused .

Back to NASA.

The President did sorta promise to continue to fund research on heavy lift rocketry (you can't make it to an asteroid otherwise) ;but he kicked the can down the road and said that he would commit to a decision to which heavy lift plan to build in 2015 .(Well into the next President's 1st term).This could be the emptiest of his many empty promises .

Tom I get the idea you have never been to China, the real estate bubble is fueled by so many people suddenly experiencing prosperity, suddenly eveyone wants to get beyond a one room house and who can blame them, sure they are offered soviet style apartment blocks in new towns but it seems good to them, wide streets, town planning, super highways, massive bridges, shopping malls, it's the communist way, I wonder where else we have seen this phenominon.

As far as NASA is concerned, all you guys are talking about is national pride. You can't be all things to all people and the GFC demonstrated that. NASA has been going nowhere for at least twenty years, if they were serious they should have had a manned mission to Mars by now, but all they have had is the shuttle program which is really a subsititute for doing nothing, forty year old space craft and nothing to show for it. What they have in fact demonstrated is the futility of a space program when you have neither the finances or the technology

I do believe that more of our problems on this ball of dirt can be solved by getting industry out where energy is perpetually free and raw materials are waiting to be mined and pollution is impossible than by "exploring inner space," whether that means oceanography or psychology.

Science fiction? Just like portable computers and television and microwave cooking and the internet, it certainly is.

The question here is who's going to fund it. I'd rather see GE or US Steel going into orbit than NASA or the People's Army.

What inner space means is solving the immediate problems we have right here. Climate change, carbon fuel dependence, food security, endemic poverty, endemic warfare.

Energy might be free out there but it is only if the technology has relevance right here that it will be developed. What is so hard about understanding that someone has to pay for the dream? Forget about mining minerals out there anytime soon, the costs of refining and shipment are prohibitive. The Moon might actually be made of a reactive material but how do you get it back here without a major calamity, It might as well be made of blue cheese for all the good it is to us and Mars might be made of aluminium or iron but what good is it to us? We can be like the Man of La Mancha and dream the impossible dream but one day we need to wake up and see that this is the space ship we have and we need to look after it. Now if we had a program focused on mining Moon rocks and generating energy here on Earth from them it would be both useful and fundable by private enterprose, they would be lining up, but what has NASA been doing, looking for our origins. No money in it but they have been doing it, so much for yankee ingenuity

Clete ;then the China housing bubble won't burst. But George Soros is betting it will. I don't have to visit the realize that when you continue to build when there is a 30% vacancy rate then something is terribly wrong .

What inner space means is solving the immediate problems we have right here. Climate change, carbon fuel dependence, food security, endemic poverty, endemic warfare.

Energy might be free out there but it is only if the technology has relevance right here that it will be developed. What is so hard about understanding that someone has to pay for the dream? forget about mining minerals out there anytime soon, the costs of refining and shipment are prohibitive. The Moon might actually be made of a reactive material but how do you get it back here without a major calamity, It might as well be made of blue cheese for all the good it is to us and Mars might be made of aluminium or iron but what good is it to us? We can be like the Man of La Mancha and dream the impossible dream but one day we need to wake up and see that this is the space ship we have and we need to look after it. Now if we had a program focused on mining Moon rocks and generating energy here on Earth from them it would be both useful and fundable by private enterprose, they would be lining up, but what has NASA been doing, looking for our origins. No money in it but they have been doing it, so much for yankee ingenuity

How do you get it back? Been doing that for decades. Put your manufactured goods on a plane and land in the Outback, the Gobi, or the Mojave. Assemble the cars or washing machines and you're golden.

Solve your carbon fuel dependence? Stop using 45% of it to manufacture goods and improve the efficiency of photovoltaic cells so you can make goods cheaper and carbon fuels will become too expensive for your SUV.

Global Warming will be solved in about eight more years regardless of anything humans do. The wheel turns, and has for eons.

Food security would be assured if ADM were allowed to go into orbit. We've had the technology to build orbital farms for 30 years. NASA's monopoloy on US space travel has left us dependent on politicians for funding for way too long.

Endemic poverty will not be solved. Somebody said "The poor are always with us." (Matthew 26:11)

War won't end until Religion ends. Funding Chemical Boosters or Magnetic Rail guns might detract from the amount of war material available.

Tom I get the idea you have never been to China, the real estate bubble is fueled by so many people suddenly experiencing prosperity, suddenly eveyone wants to get beyond a one room house and who can blame them, sure they are offered soviet style apartment blocks in new towns but it seems good to them, wide streets, town planning, super highways, massive bridges, shopping malls, it's the communist way, I wonder where else we have seen this phenominon.

As far as NASA is concerned, all you guys are talking about is national pride. You can't be all things to all people and the GFC demonstrated that. NASA has been going nowhere for at least twenty years, if they were serious they should have had a manned mission to Mars by now, but all they have had is the shuttle program which is really a subsititute for doing nothing, forty year old space craft and nothing to show for it. What they have in fact demonstrated is the futility of a space program when you have neither the finances or the technology


I don't know where your getting your NASA information from but they have been far from a stagnent in their ventures. This is just a short list of contributions.

Ref:
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/pdf/Shuttle_spinoffs.pdf


Is it in part national pride? I would hope so but the current administration doesn't seem to think so. NASA has been an important feature that goes well beyond the boarders of the U.S.

How do you get it back? Been doing that for decades. Put your manufactured goods on a plane and land in the Outback, the Gobi, or the Mojave. Assemble the cars or washing machines and you're golden..
Cats there is a vast difference between transporting minerals on Earth and doing so in space and delivering them back to Earth. We haven't solved the problem of lifting large vehicles off Earth yet, or crossing the vast distances quickly, let alone delivering a heavy load back to Earth without it burning up. I would like to think it is as simple as flying it down but apparently it isn't

Solve your carbon fuel dependance? Stop using 45% of it to manufacture goods and improve the efficiency of photovoltaic cells so you can make goods cheaper and carbon fuels will become too expensive for your SUV..
So your solution is to remove the basis of economic activity in order to solve the need for fuel and to replace existing fuels with the most expensive subsititute. Do you have any idea of the environmental cost of refining silicon? How about obsoleting the SUV? Finding ways to remove the need for all the mad running back and forth we do


Global Warming will be solved in about eight more years regardless of anything humans do. The wheel turns, and has for eons..
Yes you may be right, it is a cycle, but there may be other issues, such as fresh water, ice, on the other hand we may not be here in eight years


Food security would be assured if ADM were allowed to go into orbit. We've had the technology to build orbital farms for 30 years. NASA's monopoloy on US space travel has left us dependant on politicians for funding for way too long..
Not sure what ADM refers to. Is this a corporate? Back to my earlier comment such solutions rely on solving the little problem of how to get it up there and how to get it back. Politicians want us to be dependent on them, that is unlikely to change


Endemic poverty will not be solved. Somebody said "The poor are always with us." (Matthew 26:11).
So if they are always with us let's forget them and get on with it, not a great solution and so we will continue to have mass migrations, famines, wasted resources


War won't end until Religion ends. Funding Chemical Boosters or Magnetic Rail guns might detract from the amount of war material available.

Religion won't end anytime soon, and not all war has a religious base, some of it has to do with poor allocation of resources, or scarse minerals

Cats there is a vast difference between transporting minerals on Earth and doing so in space and delivering them back to Earth.

Build the Factories up there where the materials and energy are. Only the finished goods come down.


I would like to think it is as simple as flying it down but apparently it isn't

It actually is just that simple.


So your solution is to remove the basis of economic activity

Not remove, just move.


Not sure what ADM refers to

Archer Daniels Midland = Agribusiness.

Again, getting it going requires still further investment in both time and money, which is why getting shuttle/taxi services into profit making hands now is a good idea. Spy satellites and weaponry and other classified payloads can then pay for space exploitation instead of space exploration paying for them.

Build the Factories up there where the materials and energy are. Only the finished goods come down..

I agree but
1, no viable world has yet been discovered
2, huge ships are required, we haven't got beyond a small plane at this stage 3. space is a hostile environment, prolonged weightlessness causes serious health problems and we don't have the technology for robotics on this scale. So all this is science fiction not science fact

.
It actually is just that simple..
see above

.
Archer Daniels Midland = Agribusiness..

I thought that is what you meant, well BO has just thrown the door open so let them make the investment, all of it including transportation systems

I agree but
1, no viable world has yet been discovered
2, huge ships are required, we haven't got beyond a small plane at this stage 3. space is a hostile environment, prolonged weightlessness causes serious health problems and we don't have the technology for robotics on this scale. So all this is science fiction not science fact


Luna has sufficient gravity to avoid health problems. We need to be there permanently. Bring in a piece of ice from an orbiting comet and you've got water, fuel, and air.

Ships aren't required for anything but up and down. Everything else can be done with tugs.

The Outback is a hostile environment. Siberia is a hostile environment. Sealab is set in a hostile environment.

The technology is available. The research has been done. All it will take now is getting the funding away from Luddite vote-buying politicians or permitting private enterprise to stay private.

Bring in a piece of ice from an orbiting comet and you've got water, fuel, and air.

There is sufficient water on the moon to begin colonization already ;at least enough to support a base camp for further exploration . Gravity on the moon and Mars is sufficient to avoid the health concerns of weightlessness ;and advances have been made in that area with astronauts living in weghtless conditions for extended periods on ISS and MIR .

Construction of an explorer vehicle can be done in space .But what is still needed is heavy lift cargo rockets to get the components there . That is why the President's defunding of the Ares booster ,which would be capable of lifting 55,000 lbs to low earth orbit is short sighted .

There is sufficient water on the moon to begin colonization already ;at least enough to support a base camp for further exploration .

I was thinking more of methane to be used for fuel. Much simpler than cracking water.

Good call .I had forgotten that NASA once considered the possibility of methane booster propellent and dropped the concept . This was a policy mistake they should reconsider .

But the methane boosters is still not fully developed and is conceptual whereas we know how to make hydrogen rockets .

I was thinking in the now ,because if it were me ;I'd give a Kennedy like hard deadline for a lunar colony .At a minimum we should establish a goal to beat the Chinese and India .

Of course to press on to Mars and maybe even Titan (where abundance methane ,nitrogen and water is available).. new technology has to be invented .Mars has plenty of methane ,so perhaps a flex booster system is the future.

I was thinking in the now ,because if it were me ;I'd give a Kennedy like hard deadline for a lunar colony .At a minimum we should establish a goal to beat the Chinese and India .


To quote an author (Heinlein) - "It's raining soup" We need to build a bucket.

good call .I had forgotten that NASA once considered the possibility of methane booster propellent and dropped the concept . This was a policy mistake they should reconsider .

But the methane boosters is still not fully developed and is conceptual whereas we know how to make hydrogen rockets .

I was thinking in the now ,because if it were me ;I'd give a Kennedy like hard deadline for a lunar colony .At a minimum we should establish a goal to beat the Chinese and India .

Of course to press on to Mars and maybe even Titan (where abundance methane ,nitrogen and water is available)..new technology has to be invented .Mars has plenty of methane ,so perhaps a flex booster system is the future.

Nasa already had one on the books for 2018. That was the starting point of a colony on the moon. The jumping off point was to take advantage of the lunar cycle and land in the south near the pole where the sun is in plenty and use inflatable rooms covered in Kevlar for protection. Also compounds on the surface can be reprocessed for radiation protection. Once everything was going and in place private enterprise can take over from there. On the moon there is plenty of realestate for solar farms that are unavailable from here on earth. One of the first export products can be electricity.

Luna has sufficient gravity to avoid health problems. We need to be there permanently. Bring in a piece of ice from an orbiting comet and you've got water, fuel, and air.

Ships aren't required for anything but up and down. Everything else can be done with tugs.

The Outback is a hostile environment. Siberia is a hostile environment. Sealab is set in a hostile environment.

The technology is available. The research has been done. All it will take now is getting the funding away from Luddite vote-buying politicians or permitting private enterprise to stay private.

I think you are forgetting that neither Luna or Mars has a viable atmosphere so as a hostile environment it is in a different league, Ships are required to preserve life during the trip and provide an habitable environment until a base is created. Whether they are self propelled, projectile, or tugged is incidential. You are talking about a level of sophistication we won't achieve in the next century if we continue at the pace of the last fifty years.

There is only one way to get the funding and that is create jobs in constituencies and realisticly there aren't enough to go around so there will always be competing alternatives. It isn't like an auto plant, it is specialist work. You have to solve other major issues before space will enjoy sufficient focus and will to get the funding. Industries "up there" don't benefit the folks back home much. I think BO has spelled it out, there are more important things to do right now. What we could do when we had 4,000,000,000 people becomes much more difficult when we have 7,000,000,000 or 9,000,000,000

I think BO has spelled it out, there are more important things to do right now. What we could do when we had 4,000,000,000 people becomes much more difficult when we have 7,000,000,000 or 9,000,000,000

Speaking of Luddite vote-buying politicians. It won't make our narcissitic President look good on camera, so it won't happen.

It's less difficult now than it was in '69. All it will take now is a Murdoch or a Branson willing to make his grandson richer than Croesus.

Here is the luddite response .

But does Murdoch or Branson know what the gods have in store for them ? They could be Icarus incarnate .:D

Here is the luddite response .

But does Murdoch or Branson know what the gods have in store for them ? They could be Icarus incarnate .:D

Almost got it, Tom. Your spelling is too good to be a proper Luddite, however.

Speaking of Luddite vote-buying politicians. It won't make our narcissitic President look good on camera, so it won't happen.

It's less difficult now than it was in '69. All it will take now is a Murdoch or a Branson willing to make his grandson richer than Croesus.

What it takes cats is EGO, Murdoch is too old now and Branson is already on the way but it does take more than these men possess, what's needed is another Howard Hughes, a person who thinks big, but isn't interested in the politics

Strange no one has talked about the 6 billion dollar NASA budget increase over 5 years.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/420994main_2011_Budget_Administrator_Remarks.pdf

Fight for NASA's Future! - What We Do | The Planetary Society (http://www.planetary.org/programs/projects/space_advocacy/2011_advocacy.html)

The Launch Pad: 2011 NASA Budget Proposal (http://thelaunchpad.xprize.org/2010/02/2011-nasa-budget-proposal.html)
"One will likely be a lunar mission to demonstrate tele-operation capability from Earth and potentially from the International Space Station, including the ability to transmit near-live video to Earth. This will also result in investigations for validating the availability of resources for extraction. NASA will provide opportunities to participate in the payloads and observation teams, and potentially portions of the spacecraft, through open competition."

But by far this was the most informative site that's out there, as it explains that though the Constellation and Aries programs will be streamlined, I doubt that any of the 7000 engineers, scheduled for job cuts will go to McDonald's, or Burger King anytime soon, as private industry pays a lot more.
FY 2011 NASA Budget Request (http://www.aip.org/fyi/2010/017.html)

Actually, NASA has been expanded in a very significant way is my take on things with private industry as a resource to many things that NASA, and us cannot financially support.

I think some of you guys watch too much Fox News, and not enough CNN. Its not about going to the moon and kicking dust or collecting rocks, we have been there done that. Time for a more focused plan.

What it takes cats is EGO, Murdoch is too old now and Branson is already on the way but it does take more than these men possess, what's needed is another Howard Hughes, a person who thinks big, but isn't interested in the politics

I'm with you there. Spot me a couple billion and I'll do it. How's 25 years at 12% per annum, payable as a balloon sum?

we have been there done that.

That is what the Spaniards said after Columbus' voyages.

What pray tell was the earth shattering proposal the President floated ? Back to the OP... hitch a ride on an asteroid?. or other fuzzy references to future projects that will not be concrete proposals while he's in office. Don't you see that all he did was float vagarities to get Congressmen who promote the American space agency off his back ?
The man has no vison of a future in space. It interferes with his reorganization of America plans .

Look ;I have no problem with private industry taking over the transport to and from ISS ,and even doing the space tourism thingy .

There is a lot more of the moon to explore .Going back to the moon is not recreating the Apollo missions and "kicking rocks". It is setting up permanent basing .It is a logical next step in the progression of human space exploration .

I'm with you there. Spot me a couple billion and I'll do it. How's 25 years at 12% per annum, payable as a balloon sum?

Nope, I'm into short term returns, with a project like that and the usual cost/time overruns I don't think you will have even $16 Billion in 25 years. Now if you could find the fountain of youth as Murdoch seems to have done, I might be interested

What's logical to me is keep upgrading our capabilities so we can one day colonize the moon, in which we will need to be able to survive for long periods in space. That was outlined in his speech.

I think we have to look beyond the moon, and set our goals higher to someday explore the moon in dept, and that what its about. Expansion of capabilities by including ideas from a lot of resource (money, and people), besides NASA.

As I posted before, lunar landings are not off the table but will be more research orientated not only for resources but developing technology, that get us further into deep space.

Can't argue with forward thinking . But a lunar colony is doable now and would help inspire kids to get into engineering and the sciences etc. It's not good enough to say been there and done that when all the combined landings were equal to no more than 2 weeks of planting flags,collecting rocks ,hitting golf balls and riding in a souped up quad.
We have the capability now even if it means building a couple of Saturn rockets for the mission and depositing the components for construction of a colony on unmanned missions .

Even with your plan that takes people to be able to survive in the lunar environment for long periods, and that's a part of the whole glitch that has to be worked out.

That's exactly what the President said, the lessons learned from long range plans make short term goals achievable. The list of things that space explorations has brought to the world are endless, and have changed us humans dramatically, and not just with technology, but for medical science as well. I see more of that coming, as we broaden our goals beyond the moon.

...when all the combined landings were equal to no more than 2 weeks of planting flags,collecting rocks ,hitting golf balls and riding in a souped up quad. That's the made-for-tv stuff, there was hard science being done when the cameras were not running.

That's the made-for-tv stuff, there was hard science being done when the cameras were not running.

I agree with that... We the public ony see a fraction of what they actually do. Mostly because most people can't grasp what it is they are doing... what it means, and why its good to know what you don't already know.

Like I've said before... I know enough people there.. and I've spent enough time in one of the space centers to get a good idea how much they do (a LOT), vs how little merits the Oooooo Wow stuff like some of the Hubble pictures that have been released.

Everything worth knowing... or doing isn't based on how popular would it be on the Discovery Channel, nor should it be.

Well said smoothy.

Here's a great website that shows how busy the astronauts were: Apollo Missions (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/) click on any mission number.

All the more reason to go back. For one thing to poles were not visited and that is where the real action is .

Hello:

I just watched the shuttle Discovery land. As boring as the shuttle program was, it STILL gives me chills.

Project Mercury was our first human spaceflight program. It ran from 1959 through 1963 with the goal of putting a human in orbit around the Earth. My ship was operating in the Atlantic off Florida back then, and we were part of the recovery program. I saw several capsules plunge into the water.

We were working hard to attain the goal our president set for us. We were ALL behind it, and we loved it. I remember looking up at the moon the day man first walked on it. It brought tears to my eyes - because we did it - and because I revered my president.

I WISH we could find that spirit again.

excon

Hello:

I just watched the shuttle Discovery land. As boring as the shuttle program was, it STILL gives me chills.

Project Mercury was our first human spaceflight program. It ran from 1959 through 1963 with the goal of putting a human in orbit around the Earth. My ship was operating in the Atlantic off Florida back then, and we were part of the recovery program. I saw several capsules plunge into the water.

We were working hard to attain the goal our president set for us. We were ALL behind it, and we loved it. I remember looking up at the moon the day man first walked on it. It brought tears to my eyes - because we did it - and because I revered my president.

I WISH we could find that spirit again.

excon


If you could make things happen in under 2 minutes then you might see that spirit again. But it seems today's generation isn't interested in anything that takes that long. It seems sad that the national interest seems to be only the internet.

I WISH we could find that spirit again.

excon
Now maybe if Iran gets a space program, or the Chinese announce a manned mission to Mars, you might see the spirit arise again, but sadly, you have no one to compete with

And our leadership lacks the vision. But you are correct. The space race was part of the cold war .I think it is a major part of the reason the Cold war was won.
Defense Contractors were a major part of both the arms and space race.

On Long Island where both Rick and I originate Grumman was an integral part ,and I'm proud to say ,so was my father .

and our leadership lacks the vision. But you are correct. The space race was part of the cold war .I think it is a major part of the reason the Cold war was won.
Defense Contractors were a major part of both the arms and space race.

.

Yes the space race bankrupted the Soviet Union but they must have done something right they are earning Dollars from it.

So what do the defence contractors do now?

yes the space race bankrupted the Soviet Union but they must have done something right they are earning Dollars from it.

So what do the defence contractors do now?

They already have and should be test flying next month their own shuttle except it will be unmanned. That's what they are currently into as far as telling the public.