Hi, All!

Okay, I hate to admit it. But, I'm definitely getting middle aged here. Actually feel kind of elderly with the numerous health problems that I've had over the past year. But, I'll get over those...

I've never been good at math. I think that it's because I never really tried that hard at it, though.

I've also heard that the ones who make the major contributions in the mathematics field have been under the age of 30.

Too old to learn higher mathematics skills now? I don't know...

Opinions, please?

Thanks!

No, it is certainly not too late. Like anything else, it is best to start young, but this does not mean you can not learn math. I did not start until I was over 30. Now, I have my Masters in Applied Math. Do we expect to make some Earth-shattering contribution like solving the Riemann Hypothesis? Of course not. But one should never say, "I am too old now". That is not a good way to look at things.

Nope, never too late. I couldn't add 2+2 unless my shoes and socks were off when I was in school. I went to college at the age of 38 and had to start with basic math. I am now... much older, and can do complicated medication dosage calculations with ease.

Sometimes I think, for some of us, we are more focused the older we get. We can analyze better, and our critical thinking skills are more honed.

With the advent of very good distance learning methods and free lessons the option to learn is easier than ever. In school it was a structured environment, as an adult at home it's all about self-discipline.

Clough - I would recommend that you go to the book store (do they still exist?) or library, or visit your favorite on-line book seller, and look for one or two books in the math & sciences section that are about mathematics but are not real technical. Don't buy a text book like you had in high school, but rather narratives that talk about calculus, or number theory, or probability, and see if you (a) can get through it, and (b) does it make you eager to learn a little more. A few that I have enjoyed are:

1. "A tour of the Calculus" by Berlinski
2, "Fermat's Last Theorem" by Simon Singh
3. "The Code Book", also by Singh

A couple of others to consider:
"The Drunkard's Walk - How Randomness Rules Our Lives" by Mlodinow
"Zero - the Biography of a Dangerous Idea" by Seife

These all are pretty good at describing concepts for dabblers, and not too heavy on jargon. See what you think.

No, it is certainly not too late. Like anything else, it is best to start young, but this does not mean you can not learn math. I did not start until I was over 30. Now, I have my Masters in Applied Math. Do we expect to make some Earth-shattering contribution like solving the Riemann Hypothesis?. Of course not. But one should never say, "I am too old now". That is not a good way to look at things.

Hi, galactus!

You're a case in point, here! Didn't start until you were over 30 and now have a Masters degree in it?

I just go with what I had previously heard though...

You're truly an inspiration!

Thanks!

Nope, never too late. I couldn't add 2+2 unless my shoes and socks were off when I was in school. I went to college at the age of 38 and had to start with basic math. I am now... much older, and can do complicated medication dosage calculations with ease.

Sometimes I think, for some of us, we are more focused the older we get. We can analyze better, and our critical thinking skills are more honed.


Sometimes I think, for some of us, we are more focused the older we get. We can analyze better, and our critical thinking skills are more honed.

I think that you're very correct with the above statement, J_9!

With all of my musical training and practice, I am more focused and can do the other things that you mentioned much better!

Just need to get started on the math stuff... That's part of the problem!

With the advent of very good distance learning methods and free lessons the option to learn is easier than ever. In school it was a structured environment, as an adult at home it's all about self-discipline.

Hi, NK!

Agreed with all you write! Also, yes, it's all about self-discipline...

So, who would be willing to get me started with learning math here?

Clough - I would recommend that you go to the book store (do they still exist?) or library, or visit your favorite on-line book seller, and look for one or two books in the math & sciences section that are about mathematics but are not real technical. Don't buy a text book like you had in high school, but rather narratives that talk about calculus, or number theory, or probability, and see if you (a) can get through it, and (b) does it make you eager to learn a little more. A few that I have enjoyed are:

1. "A tour of the Calculus" by Berlinski
2, "Fermat's Last Theorem" by Simon Singh
3. "The Code Book", also by Singh

A couple of others to consider:
"The Drunkard's Walk - How Randomness Rules Our Lives" by Mlodinow
"Zero - the Biography of a Dangerous Idea" by Seife

These all are pretty good at describing concepts for dabblers, and not too heavy on jargon. See what you think.

Hi, ebaines!

I actually do have math books at home. But, they're so ponderoso that it's incredibly hard to get through them!


"The Drunkard's Walk - How Randomness Rules Our Lives" by Mlodinow

What the heck is the above about, please?

Please keep in mind, that I'm basically an addition, subtraction, multiplication and division kind of guy at this point.

Did horribly at algebra. Didn't really have any discipline to do it nor a desire. But, that was a long time ago. Now is now...

Would really like to explore the higher mathematics, though.

Thanks!

I had to take a statistics class recently in school to meet a transfer requirement. There happened to be a lot of middle aged mothers that had gone back to school and were in the same class with me. Even though they all said math wasn't their strong suit and talked about how they'd been out of school for a long time, they always seemed to do better on all of the tests and homework than any of the younger students in the class, myself included. I think since you're interested in it, you'd be more likely to be self disciplined enough to study and do just fine.

I am interested in it! It's just a matter of how to go about getting into and learning it...

I think that it would be amazing if something like this type of learning could be done at my age!

Are there any adult education classes or a community college you could enroll in in your area? My school has a special part in our course catalog with classes specifically meant for adults just looking to take classes just to take them (instead of to get a degree or transfer to a 4 year)

Hi, ebaines!

I actually do have math books at home. But, they're so ponderoso that it's incredibly hard to get through them!

...
What the heck is the above about, please?


These are not pondeorus to get through, which is why I suggested them. They can introduce you to concepts using conversational english rather than math-heavy formulas and jargon.

The drunkard's walk (also called "the drunk and the lamp post") is a classic example of how the outcome of a series of random events can be expected to fall within a certain range. Imagine you have a drunk leaning against a lamp post. He then starts stumbling around taking steps to the left, or the right, or forwards or backwards in a perfectly random way. Is it possible to predict where he is likely to be after 4 steps, or 10, or 1000? Turns out that there is indeed an expected area that he would be in after 1000 steps that is much closer to the lamp post than you might think. In fact, he will tend to return to the area of the lamp post time and time again as he stumbles about. The lamp post represent his mean (or average) position, and the width of the area he covers is related to the concept of standard deviation. This is an example of how the concepts of probability and statistics can be illustrated in a way that is easy to understand without a lot of equations and homework problems..

are there any adult education classes or a community college you could enroll in in your area? my school has a special part in our course catalog with classes specifically meant for adults just looking to take classes just to take them (instead of to get a degree or transfer to a 4 year)

Would just really like to learn it on my own, justcurious55. Can't really afford to even take community college courses right now. Although, I would like to be able to do that!

These are not pondeorus to get through, which is why I suggested them. They can introduce you to concepts using conversational english rather than math-heavy formulas and jargon.

The drunkard's walk (also called "the drunk and the lamp post") is a classic example of how the outcome of a series of random events can be expeced to fall within a certain range. Imagine you have a drunk leaning against a lamp post. He then starts stumbling around taking steps to the left, or the right, or forwards or backwards in a perfectly random way. Is it possible to predict where he is likely to be after 4 steps, or 10, or 1000? Turns out that there is indeed an expected area that he would be in after 1000 steps that is much closer to the lamp post than you might think. In fact, he will tend to return to the area of the lamp post time and time again as he stumbles about. The lamp post represent his mean (or average) positon, and the width of the area he covers is related to the concept of standard deviation. This is an example of how the concepts of probability and statistics can be illustrated in a way that is easy to understand without a lot of equations and homework problems..

I will "check out" the books that you've mentioned, ebaines!

It just seems like such a daunting task to try to learn these things again...

Sometimes if you can get simple books, you can have someone who does know get you headed in the right direction.

So, who would be willing to get me started with learning math here?
I am.

Originally Posted by Clough
So, who would be willing to get me started with learning math here?


I am.

Okay, then let's go! :)

Thanks!

Do you know your times tables to 12x12, instant answer without thinking?

You can do it Clough... I know you can... Hugs

Do you know your times tables to 12x12, instant answer without thinking?

No, I don't. Website where I can learn, please?

No, I don't. Website where I can learn, please?
Make flashcards out of 3x5 cards or even cut-up printer paper. Put the problem one side and the answer on the other. Go through them several times a day. Don't make cards for those you know and can answer immediately. Memorize the ones you don 't know.

In order to do higher math, you have to know your times tables perfectly!

I'll give you three days? A week? Then I will test you.

Do you know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide decimals? Fractions? How to determine the equivalent fraction for a decimal and vice versa? Do you know anything about prime factors? (prime factors of 30 = 2, 3, 5) What about factors? (factors of 30 = 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 15, 30)

My boyfriend was looking over my shoulder while I was on her and suggested kahn academy. He says you can search for it on YouTube and its all about different levels of math.

Originally Posted by Clough
No, I don't. Website where I can learn, please?


Make flashcards out of 3x5 cards or even cut-up printer paper. Put the problem one side and the answer on the other. Go through them several times a day. Don't make cards for those you know and can answer immediately. Memorize the ones you don 't know.

In order to do higher math, you have to know your times tables perfectly!

I'll give you three days? a week? Then I will test you.

Originally Posted by Clough
No, I don't. Website where I can learn, please?
Learn what?

Here is a grid --

http://www.mathsisfun.com/tables.html

Nice grid, Wondergirl!

Okay, I would like to work on algebra. Seems like a good starting point, unless someone thinks differently.

Nice grid, Wondergirl!

Okay, I would like to work on algebra. Seems like a good starting point, unless someone thinks differently.
Do you know your times tables perfectly now?

Algebra is the process of finding the value of unknowns. Unknowns (i.e. variables) may be shown as x or y or z or a or b.

4x + 16 = 32
What is the value of x?

Algebra is the process of finding the value of unknowns. Unknowns (i.e., variables) may be shown as x or y or z or a or b.

4x + 16 = 32
What is the value of x?

Gosh! I'm lost! Need to start with the "bare bones", so to speak!

Let me tell you about pianos... :p

I always thought of algebra as the laws of math one needs to know in order to do math correctly. There are rules to follow. Follow the rules and you'll be OK. In math things have to be balanced.

Hey, I am into music as well. I play the banjo. Fun instrument. More advanced math deals with music and math and how they're related.
Take the 'vibrating string' for instance.
The Wave equation is used to model the vibration of a string.
Music is a pattern. Therefore, it can be mathematically modeled.

Okay. How about I learn the multiplication table as Wondergirl has prvided. That would be for a start.

You play the banjo, galactus? Oh, that's great! Much to write about there!

Math? I'm gust getting started...

Okay. How about I learn the multiplication table as Wondergirl has prvided. That would be for a start.

You play the banjo, galactus? Oh, that's great! Much to write about there!

Math? I'm gust getting started...
Yes, as galactus mentioned, music is math too. That's why I'm hoping you will be a good math student. Did you ever study music theory?

I should call you and drill you on the times tables.

You are never too old to learn. You may just get a little out of practice and age can be a factor for attitude. That can be good and bad. As I get older, I'm more likely to recognize BS and less likely to put up with it. But, I've also been told that older students are often better students, because they mean business, when it comes to learning. Older students actually want the education for their money. Education is too often the one product that students don't mind getting ripped off on as long as they get their diploma.

I believe that most of the great contributors were younger, because they had the time. I'm in my 40's and I still like to do a little math research on the side as a hobby, but I find that I have far less time to devote to it now that I have a home, children, a wife. And a career. I hope that I still feel the same way when I'm old enough to retire, because then I may again find the time to contribute more.

Yes, as galactus mentioned, music is math too. That's why I'm hoping you will be a good math student. Did you ever study music theory?

I should call you and drill you on the times tables.

I'm presuming that your question is directed at me. I'm sorry for taking so long to respond!

I teach music theory, Wondergirl.

Thanks!

4x + 16 = 32
What is the value of x?

How could I miss this thread? :eek:

Ok, Clough. I admit that such a problem is not the first type of problems in algebra we learn in maths.

The first ones are adding, multiplying etc of algebra. Algebra are just letters to represent a number that we don't know, an unknown number ;) The numbers in front of algebra are multiplied by the algebra.

Ok, say we have 'a', we don't know its actual value.

a + a = 2a

You make as if it was (when there is no number in front of an algebra, you can consider it as being a 1):

1a + 1a = 2a

Let's see if that is true.

Say, we now assign the value of 5 to a. Hence, we say that a = 5.

Let's plug back (substitute) a into the expression.

5 + 5 = 2(5) ----[2(5) means 2 times 5, when you find a number in front of brackets, it means that the number is multiplied by everything within the brackets]
10 = 10

See?

Let's use another value... a = 8. You should come to the conclusion that for any value that a can take, a + a will always be equal to 2a.

Now, we change a little. We take 'y' as the unknown variable (variable because it's value can be any value)

3y + 5y = 8y

You can again try to plug in any value in this expression, and you'll see that they are true. I'm sure that now, you are seeing the trend. You add the numbers as if the algebra was not there, and then, you insert the algebra in the final term.

Now some problems for practice:
2u + 7u = ?
5x - x = ?
8t - ? = 4t
? + 7p = 8p

Hi, Unky!

I would really like to learn what you have to teach! Just really mentally tired right now, among other things...

Later, though...

Perhaps on a new thread?

Thanks!

Hi, Unky!

I would really like to learn what you have to teach! Just really mentally tired right now, among other things...

Later, though...

Perhaps on a new thread?

Thanks!
No, not a new thread. What good would that do? Have you been studying your times tables?

No problem Clough :)

Yes. A new thread. This thread is in danger of getting off-topic.

Yes. I've been practicing my times tables in my head when I'm in bed.

No problem Clough :)

Thanks! :)

No problem Clough :)
I think we should give him some No-Doze and drill him on times tables for an hour. Hrmmmmph.

Yes. A new thread. This thread is in danger of getting off-topic.
How so? It's still on math, and now we even have the new Maths expert to help us.

One thing I've learned recently, is that the world is no longer looking for people who can memorise things. We have computers now, hard disks capable of storing several gibabytes (now even tera bytes)... soon, the 'merit' for memorising things will not be as it was in the past. It will turn more towards thinking skills and problem solving skills. That's why I'm not too strict with the multiplication tables. I never myself learned them all to 12 (:o) but with practice, I came to know the tables on the tip of my fingers. I came to even know the tables of 13, 15, 16, 25 especially.

One thing I've learned recently, is that the world is no longer looking for people who can memorise things.
I've tutored enough math, and believe that knowing the times tables sure goes a long ways towards doing algebra, geometry, trig, etc. I always refused to allow my grade school and high school students have calculators until I was sure they knew the times tables and knew how to think through the various math problems.

It isn't so much as the memorization and regurgitating of the times tables, but having the discipline to learn them and know how the whole thing works together -- and not just be mindless calculations on a fancy little gadget with buttons.

In the same way, my mom had me and my siblings learn how to properly mop a tile floor on our hands and knees, so we'd understand how dirty the corner can get and where the fallen crumbs like to hide.

How so? It's still on math, and now we even have the new Maths expert to help us.

Lol...

actually, I've been thinking of a sticky for the mathematics forum, containing all the stuff that we learn from small classes, as from secondary studies... I feel somewhat lazy about it though. I might start one in my holidays, the true ones which are in six months time.

I think I'll include:
Algebra (solving, simplifying, factorising)
Trigonometry (solving, simplifying, identities)
Probability (conditional, independent)
Coordinate geometry (plotting, drawing lines, curves, gradients, trigo curves, area, volume, three dimensional coordinate geometry)
Linear law
Rates
Functions
Indices/Logarithm
Partial fractions
etc

Lol...

actually, I've been thinking of a sticky for the mathematics forum, containing all the stuff that we learn from small classes, as from secondary studies...
That sounds like a very helpful thing to post.

I've tutored enough math, and believe that knowing the times tables sure goes a long ways towards doing algebra, geometry, trig, etc. I always refused to allow my grade school and high school students have calculators until I was sure they knew the times tables and knew how to think through the various math problems.

It isn't so much as the memorization and regurgitating of the times tables, but having the discipline to learn them and know how the whole thing works together -- and not just be mindless calculations on a fancy little gadget with buttons.

In the same way, my mom had me and my siblings learn how to properly mop a tile floor on our hands and knees, so we'd understand how dirty the corner can get and where the fallen crumbs like to hide.

I know what you are saying. I admit that calculators do make people lazier and make them take much time. I've seen that too many a times among some friends. They would use a calculator to do 13 times 3! I can work without a calculator if the problem involves 'round figures' (not going into endless decimals, and involving square roots of non-square numbers).

My point was memory will always be essential. However, it remains for the basics, the ones that you won't be assessed ever in your life. You would have course use them in most, if not all problems you encounter. I won't say either that it is useless to learn all the tables up to 1000, it is good, but you will not be asked to do 257 times 911. You apply your knowledge of multiplications to solve more complex problems. The world does not need a population of reciting parrots, but a thinking, innovative population which can take the best decisions.

It is in this respect that I'm directing my point.

you will not be asked to do 257 times 911.
I understand what you're saying, but if I had to solve 257 x 911, I'd jot it down on a piece of paper (keeping my columns nice and straight) and solve it forthwith, rather than dig around in the junk drawer for a calculator.

When I went to school (even college), calculators were unheard of for students. (I should check what years they WERE available.) The nerds used abaci, but the rest of us calculated on paper or in our heads. I remember physics homework that was pages long, and we had to show all our work. One mistake in a calculation, and the answer would be wrong (and we'd get a lower grade).

Another thread...

This one is about whether a person is too old to learn math.

Another thread...

This one is about whether or not a person is too old to learn math.
I'll unsubscribe then.

I understand what you're saying, but if I had to solve 257 x 911, I'd jot it down on a piece of paper (keeping my columns nice and straight) and solve it forthwith, rather than dig around in the junk drawer for a calculator.

When I went to school (even college), calculators were unheard of for students. (I should check what years they WERE available.) The nerds used abaci, but the rest of us calculated on paper or in our heads. I remember physics homework that was pages long, and we had to show all our work. One mistake in a calculation, and the answer would be wrong (and we'd get a lower grade).

Yes, same goes for me :). Even if it were a six digit long number, without a calculator, I'd do it on paper, using the knowledge of my 1 to 9 multiplications tables.
The table of 10 and 11 are just too simple.

And for the random number I said earlier, I would have 'improvised' because of the presence of the '11'.

Apart from that, I can say I don't have a 'super' memory, but I memorise things easily with practice. After so many multiplications, how can I not know the basic tables? :)

Oh, speaking of calculation mistakes, the exams we have now deduce little marks for such mistakes and they still give you marks for the working, your methodology to tackle the problem.

...

I think we are hi-jacking Clough's thread :eek:

I think we are hi-jacking Clough's thread :eek:
At least this OLD PERSON (me) is talking about math like she can do it, and we're not talking about Alty's bunnies and hheath's kittens.

Time for me to go to bed -- 2:30 here. See you on another thread somewhere in AMHDland.

Yes, see you on another thread WG :) Have a good sleep!