ScottGem,
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this -

"And, at 13, accidental exposure or even some curiosity is not going to be very harmful."

I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up is bad and I'd say harmful to any child under 18.


I didn't want to further hijack the thread where I made that statement. So I'm moving this discussion here.

So explain to me how they would be harmed? Obviously they aren't going to be physically harmed. Do you really believe that that someone, especially a 13 year old in western cultures, will be seriously scarred by being exposed to some graphic images of sex? What do you expect to happen? Will they become rapists, frigid, what?

I'm not advocating porn here. But I just find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people, of any age, will be seriously affected by seeing some porn. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by my stated opinion above.

Honestly, it's almost a right of passage in American culture, to see that material, especially in middle school. Which would be around 12-13. Again I am not advocating it, however it has become such a concrete part of society, mainly for men, that I couldn't think of a world without it. And to say that it might harm someone is just ignorant. Considering that generations before mine have been subjected to this stuff at an early age and there has not been an increase in rapists or people with sexual problems. I think it's just all malarky.

I agree with Wizz to a point. But I don't think its tragic either, but I think what harm is done is that it can be viewed without appropriate context, which is something kids are lacking. And in that regard it makes a different kind of impression on them then it would say someone older who has, by exposure to lots of other stuff, had a chance for building context. Granted a wrong impression can get worked out over time and it may not be that difficult to do. But tests have shown that kids do not have the means to process lots of things that adults do nor do they process in the same way either and for that, I would limit exposure to any "adult" things. By limiting, LOL I would presume they'll get their hands on some of it anyway, God knows I did, heck, we all did! So I think the harm would be measured more by volume than anything. Some is the imperative word.

Great point val, definitely volume, for instance the porn cards litering Las Vegas is overkill.

Maybe it's just different here in the UK. Hope I haven't caused any trouble here, ScottGem?

I'd like to throw an interesting fact into this thread.
OK its slightly off topic, but interesting none the less.

Did you all realise that over 75% of internet content is porn or porn related!
It is a Multi BILLION Dollar industry.

Quite an eye opener really

Now I really must question the starting statement:

I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up
Now just what sites have they been on?
I know Googling "Cheats" can produce some iffy sites, but the use of tools such as AdBlocker in FireFox stops this kind of activity.

Remember Surf Safe and Always Wear a Tin Foil Hat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinfoil_hat).

Actually Ben, I have had that happen more than once and at work too :eek:

You don't know its going to be porn until you get to the page since nothing indicated that until you get there. But after all the emails from the "hot girls" and russian wives for sale or the close to pornographic erection enhancement ads, I eventually assumed no one at work would be accusing me of a porn addiction any time soon so it became like... so what :cool: See, context is everything. But where are you getting tin Ben, will a kleenex box (http://www.kleenex.com/au/range.asp#soft) do instead??

It is the more explicit stuff I was referring to. Some pictures once seen whether about sex or a serious traffic accident are very hard to un-see. I was quite young when I saw a young boy killed in a road accident on his bike, it affected me so much I couldn't bring myself to buy my children bikes. Hope that explains a bit clearer what I meant about once seen you can't un-see it.

I think they might laugh and giggle because that would be their reaction in front of someone but what does images like the more explicit sex scenes do to their psyche. It could make them afraid of sex. Am I just being silly here? Am I that out of touch? If so I will be very, very interested in where this topic goes because I have a 13 year old grandson living with me.

"Now I really must question the starting statement:

Quote:
I have gone on the computer looking for cheats for Playstation games for my grandson, and I have to say that some of the 'porn' that 'accidentally' pops up...."

I use a good blocker now but I have got some trash in the past and sometimes stuff still gets through.

Blue, do you use any kind of spyware scanner on your machine such as Adaware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/) or spybot (http://www.safer-networking.org/) ?

This help to remove "hooks" which are used my the pop up ad suppliers.
Blockers are only so good, if you've not scanned your system then time to do so.

Thanks, Curlyben. I'll check that out. Just now all I can see is 'Zone Alarm'. Things have been much better since we got this computer. Not exactly sure what is on it security wise but I'll check it out.

Blue, I'll send you over some bits tomorrow.
Zone Alarm is an excellent software firewall, but is really bad at stopping pop ups from any source ;)

**** Ooops sorry Scott didn't mean to pull the thread off course ***
Normal scheduling will now continue.

Thanks, Curlyben.

Sorry, ScottGem, back to you. Very interesting topic. Can't wait to see where it goes.

No trouble at all, Blue. I thought this was an interesting subject for discussion which is why I opened it. I do think you are a bit out of touch, though I don't think you are being silly. I do believe that kids are growing up much faster these days. They are exposed to a lot more "worldly" things then they were even 10 years ago and definitely more that 20 or thirty years ago. As Wizz pointed out porn has been around for a long time. Sexual mores have ebbed and flowed over the centuries. They even widely differ in certain cultures.

I agree with what Val said about context and volume. Its possible that some children might develop the wrong and even harmful ideas about sexual relations from being exposed to large amounts of particularly explicit porn. But I have never seen or heard of a comprehensive study that directly links some incidental exposure to a harmful effect on someone's psyche.

Given all that, I think my stated opinion: "at 13, accidental exposure or even some curiosity is not going to be very harmful" is a reasonable and accurate statement.

As I said earlier, porn has been around for a long time. The invention of photography was the first real stimulus to the industry. It wasn't long after that invention that nudes and other more explicit photos became available. The same thing happened with film. Some of the first uses of kinescopes and movie film was porn. Three other developments had a huge impact on the industry. Video taping, cable TV and the WEB. Before video, movies were done on 8 or 16 mm film and sold in the backs of sex mags. But video made it very easy to play a film and the industry exploded. The cable TV industry made porn even more available and easy to access. The WEB not only increased that availability, but it enabled users to remain more anonymous. And the industry exploded even more.

If there was proof that porn was so harmful, the anti porn peope would have trumpeted such studies.

Stepping down off my soapbox.

"If there was proof that porn was so harmful, the anti porn people would have trumpeted such studies."

Let me clear something up here. I was only referring to it being harmful to 13 year old girls. I'm not a prude, I understand it is a massive industry. And I'm not saying it is harmful in itself. I do realise how popular it is. My concern was aimed at it popping up while kids are looking for cheats on the net. And again we are talking about explicit porn not just sex or naked bodies.

I completely agree with ScottGem. I know it is a parent or grandparents job to protect their children, but I think sometimes when it come to sex, they like to avoid the subject. When I was younger my parents openly told me what sex was. They told me it was a gift you give to someone you love, not every Tom, D ick, and Harry (no pun intended) in the neighborhood. I think this has a lot to do with a lot of the 13 year olds having sex, not seeing porn on the internet.
As for "accidentally" coming across some on the internet, I don't know about that. I have been using it for years now and have never just stumbled upon any. Yes, on some websites there are those advertisements on the top or the side for "meet local girls" with a picture of a girl with some cleavage showing. But I think if parents were more open to talk to their children about sex, it wouldn't become a problem.

Ok, lets be that specific then. First, how do you define "explicit" porn? To me explicit would refer to detailed sexual acts, intrercourse, fellatio, cunnilingus, etc.

In my opinion a girl of 13 nowadays is aware of the various sex acts, though they may not have actually seen them. If anything, I suspect most 13 year old girls would be a bit incredulous by what they saw. But I don't believe they would be permanently or seriously scarred by it. I also don't think they would be titillated or stimulated by it (though boys would be more inclined to react so).

So, I still feel that the concern in the original thread that the 13 yr old might or was encountering porn was misplaced. Which is what prompted what I posted.

I completely agree with ScottGem.

Thanks! Your comments were very much on point.

I understand and I bow down to the younger view and plan to keep my eyes and my ears open for just how much 13 year olds know. Thanks for the heads up. Lol

Well if we are to enlarge this discussion to include the porn industry I have to say that there is also a big continuum. And I am very mindful that to some people it is all off limits for how vulgar it seems and that is of course their choice and it needs to be respected. For them, their child being exposed is a different story, I think but they shouldn't freak over it, that would be really counterproductive. Look to the Amish for a workable solution there. A great amount of porn just bombs with us and yes, we've looked at it together. Its neither very realistic or flattering even. And the stuff with men is far more poorly done than that of women too, as if its done mostly by men LOL who don't quite get it. Perhaps gearing to the gay audience is more lucrative than the female one. I think the difference is in what is erotic but there's a million dollar question for you! What constitutes erotic and why? LOL

I especially enjoy the old nudie shots of the early days of photography too Scott, and think sometimes the art of seduction has been lost along the way here. My sweetie sort of agrees about that but doesn't exactly like how the women look. He said "Its like I'm looking at my grandmother!" :eek:

So forgive me here but if I had kids and the subject of porm came up, we would be having something of a conversation about good porn and bad porn LOL. I happen to think the written word is far better and might be more inclined to share with my hypothetical kids some of the erotic short story collections I have -- they would be better off sexually for it, I believe, than looking at photos, especially in a place like the internet where the variance is so great.

Did you all realise that over 75% of internet content is porn or porn related !?
It is a Multi BILLION Dollar industry.

Quite an eye opener really[/URL].
That is why when people post highly arguable information gleaned from the net, I often tell them not to get their critical information from a source containing mostly dirty pictures. :)


It is the more explicit stuff I was referring to. Some pictures once seen whether about sex or a serious traffic accident are very hard to un-see. I was quite young when I saw a young boy killed in a road accident on his bike, it affected me so much I couldn’t bring myself to buy my children bikes. Hope that explains a bit clearer what I meant about once seen you can’t un-see it.

I think they might laugh and giggle because that would be their reaction in front of someone but what does images like the more explicit sex scenes do to their psyche. It could make them afraid of sex. Am I just being silly here? Am I that out of touch? If so I will be very, very interested in where this topic goes because I have a 13 year old grandson living with me.

I would agree that it is probably a bit doubtful in this day and age, but I guess it would really all depend on your cultural norms or upbringing to some extent. Trauma often becomes trauma through repitition. But there is something of a catch in this regard. Much of it really hinges on the strength of one's initial reaction. As in the mechanism believed involved in PTSD.
If I remember correctly, it is believed that certain images -- at least "negative" or displeasurable ones -- are encoded in the amygdala region of the brain. This experience of the event is accompanied by the release of certain hormones which essentially aid in this process of imprinting or encoding the memory.
In a case such as you describe with the bike accident, it is believed that the brain is overloaded or flooded with a greater degree than normal of such hormones, which in turn encodes for a particularly vivid memory. The memory may then be so vivid, that exposure to even subtle stimuli sufficient to elicit the traumatic memory, can cause further subsequent release of such hormones, at possibly even higher levels, sufficient to encode for an entirely new memory. Thus the memories are ultimately compounded in a sense. Trauma in regard to trauma in relation to trauma... The impact often becomes increasingly exponential. Thus, the experience of PTSD. A completely "abnormal" reaction to what might often be considered to most, relatively mild to moderate stimuli in an aversion inducing sense.
On the other hand, people can be repeatedly exposed to things and become quite numb or disaffected to or by them. In large part it really depends on the intensity of the initial exposure. Both the stimuli itself and the person's reaction to such.

Having suffered from PTSD from the age of 15, I can say that Thomas's explanation of it is indeed the latest in what they understand about it in the brain and it was long in coming too. Should anyone care to know more about it, I am quite open to answering questions. And while there may be some basis for a family to be concerned about sexual exposure to their kids, it would take having the context that sex was somehow threatening for PTSD to occur by how its defined in the DSM for Mental Disorders (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual). Without trauma, it is not able to form the original impression necessary for the first half of the PTSD equation.

The family would need more than that however. The second half of the set up in the equation is essentially that the person comes from a dysfunctional family and lacks certain emotional and psychological environmental supports if young and elemenets in adult psyche later on that are necessary for processing trauma and as a result, when triggered, it results in re-trauma rather than processing. Thereby deepening it with each cycle until treatment intervenes. I hope that clarifies it a little more for you Scott.

I agree.

I didn't want to further hijack the thread where I made that statement. So I'm moving this discussion here.

So explain to me how they would be harmed? Obviously they aren't going to be physically harmed. Do you really believe that that someone, especially a 13 year old in western cultures, will be seriously scarred by being exposed to some graphic images of sex? What do you expect to happen? Will they become rapists, frigid, what?

I'm not advocating porn here. But I just find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people, of any age, will be seriously affected by seeing some porn. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by my stated opinion above.
Well you said in an earlier post that you don't believe girls are as interested in porn at age 13, so I don't think I misread or misinterpreted what you typed. I also don't think that how old you are or my age, have anything to do with experiences. I know of other girls who have been looking at porn for years. (since teenage) It DOES affect some girls... when I saw porn for the first time, about 10, I wasn't at all disgusted... I was intrigued. And by age 13-14, I was talking to guys who were 17-18, who obviously weren't interested in what a 13 year old had to say. I don't think I would have even known what to do or that it wasn't so "accepted" and "common" if I hadn't been exposed to porn so early in age. Is it not true that when you are overexposed to such elements that you become "numb" with it and it can *desensitize* you after a while? I know plenty of girls who watched porn at that age and it became a habitual thing. I have disagreed with your point "girls arent interested in porn at age 13" because I KNOW that is an opinion and not necessarily true.
My point of view is still going along with the original post about how inadvertently, internet porn can lead to other internet relationships etc.
Kids will do what they want to do, but I think most everyone agrees that the computer limitations at this young age, may help at least prevent or detour the problem-at least for now. But yes, I do think that MY porn interest as a kid led to my being sexually curious soon thereafter, which led to acting out on that curiousity.

Well you said in an earlier post that you dont believe girls are as interested in porn at age 13, so I dont think I misread or misinterpreted what you typed. ... I know of other girls who have been looking at porn for years. (since teenage) It DOES affect some girls... I have disagreed with your point "girls arent interested in porn at age 13" bc I KNOW that is an opinion and not necessarily true.
My point of view is still going along with the original post about how inadvertantly, internet porn can lead to other internet relationships etc.
Kids will do what they want to do, but I think most everyone agrees that the computer limitations at this young age, may help at least prevent or detour the problem-at least for now. But yes, I do think that MY porn interest as a kid led to my being sexually curious soon thereafter, which led to acting out on that curiousity.

First, in your original response to my post, you referred to my saying that 13 yr old girls were not interested in porn OR sex. My complaint was that I never mentioned sex, that you were putting words into my keyboard.

I was speaking in generalities. Sure there will be some girls who will be intrigued. Even some girls who will be stimulated to experiment. But from what I have read studies have shown that the two do not usually equate. If you encountered porn accidentally at age 10 and it stimulated you to experiment with sex, then I maintain you are the exception, not the rule. If the encounter was not accidentally, then it shows that you were already curious.

OK, here's my 2 cents worth on the subject pertaining to porn.
I feel that there are too many young kids having sexual relations these days.
There are several young girls that attend my nieces middle school between the ages of 12 and 14 who are currently pregnant, and the number of STD cases with kids and teens are extremely high along with the teen pregnancy rate.
Why do you think this is? Possibly porn striking an interest in what real sex is like? I don't know, but I would suspect the Internet has a lot to do with it.
Kae

I honestly don't know how we would do this but I think it's a case of keeping the kids from being exposed to it for as long as possible.

I believe in an ideal world they should be given the facts of life as they grow. I still remember the questions my sons 5 & 7 asked just after my daughter was born, I answered quite frankly and again as stuff came up in school, we didn't need pictures.

From a mum's point of view, it's like what we did when they were young and believed in Santa and the tooth fairy, only in reveres, we wanted them to believe in it for as long as possible. Why? Because it was fun. And they would be dealing with the real world soon enough.

Now, where we gave them Santa and the tooth fairy back then to hold back the real world, we are still trying to hold it back to a certain extent regards sex… They grow up too fast as it is. Surely at 13 we can try to hold it back for at least another couple of years? And if we were successful, would there be so many young teenage mums?

BlueRose

I am so with you on this. Let a child's mind be youthful for as long as possible. Let the beauty of life build up in their young minds as their base, to help them sort out those issues that enter it as they advance in years.

The young mind is just that too young to be able to rationalize and digest in a healthy manner, certain issues, that in my opinion should never be exposed until they are mature enough to handle correctly.

Heck, some grown men and perhaps women, can't handle viewing porn in a healthy matter, why would be feel a beautiful young mind could?

First, in reference to Akae's comments, recent reports have indicated that teenage pregnancy and STD incidents have actually gone down in the last couple of years. That doesn't mean its no longer a problem, but it shows some headway is being made.

Young kids today are surrounded by a glamorization of the male-female relationship everywhere. Movies, ads, TV, books etc. all show sexual intimacy as a natural part of male-female (or even same sex) relations. So I really don't think that porn is the primary culprit. Kids just want to grow up so fast these days and they are shown, in a myriad of ways, that sexual intimacy is part of growing up.

Now to Bluerose's question of "keeping the kids from being exposed to it for as long as possible." I think one of the answers is a virtual redlight district on the WEB. It has been proposed (and I support it) that a Top Level domain (like .com) be established for adult material. The TLDs of .sex or .xxx have been proposed. With such a TLD, it would be easy for parents to block any URLs with that TLD. Opponents have held it up claiming it would make it easier for kids to find porn. But what it does it put the responsibility (where it belongs) on parents and computer owners to initate the block. The catch is that all adult sites would have to agree to switch their domains and countries would have to enact laws to punish those that don't. I think most adult sites would comply.

Another aspect of this has to do with education. Kids need to be educated about sex, about the dangers of the Internet about porn and about healthy relationships. And it needs to be done at a young age. Its not too early to start at 8-10 years old and gradually increase the knowledge. It would be nice let their minds "be youthful as long as possible". (as I pointed out earlier) that young people are being exposed to these things daily. "As long as possible" is awfully young these days. Its up to parents and educators to teach them how to assimilate what they see in a healthy manner.

Scott makes an excellent point, kids are just growing up too fast these days. And it comes from having the major communications exploiting sex as a way of advertising. It's in music, books, t.v. any possible corner of the market. Why? Because in truth sex does sell. Because the market will never change it seems that the responsibility, sadly, will fall on the parents and teachers not society. We should teach them the basics of sex in middle school. And at my school we took sex education as a mandatory class during our freshman year. And I think that is one of the better systems, because WE did learn about sex in middle school but we learned about everything else, emotions, diseases, prevention, porn, etc, in High school. It seems to me that trying to ignore the situation as long as possible only hurts the situation, as they say knowledge is power.

Wizz,

You bring up great points. I am with you the resposiblity is with the parents. Absolutely.
I do not have children, so admittedly, I do not have to contend with this issue as far as my own children, however, if I did, I would not feel comfortable having the schools teach my child about sex. Unless, the schools meet with the parents and give them a brief on what they are planning to teach the children. I would want to know exactly what the schools would be teaching my child on that subject.

Not sure what school district it was, but they were handling out condoms to the children without parental consent. Now that I would have a major issue with. If I did have children, that would be up to my husband and myself, to educate and introduce my child to the things we feel the child needs to be educated on. It would be a duty that I would be most happy to do and would not want it in anyone else's hands.

My two cents:

I think that porn should be avoided. I think this can be something that can be addicting. Let me explain. A person gets just a peek. Of course everyone is curious. Then a peek turns into a full see. Which can lead to a live look, which can lead to a live touch, which can lead to sex, etcetera, etcetera. I'm not sure it's okay to look at naked people.

Curlyben stated that something like 75% of the internet is porn. Isn't there something wrong with this? Where do we draw the line? For everyone it's different. You say it's okay to look at naked people, they say it's okay to look at naked kids, the next person says it's okay to touch naked kids. I don't think people have enough control over themselves to make porn okay. I know a guy who is so into porn, hard-core, that he has said that one day he would like to rape some woman just to see. People are always taking things to the next level. It wasn't always in the stores, now it's even on public billboards, on commercials, in magazines. When is enough, enough?

Some men expect their wives to act out what they see, some women expect their husbands to give them the same high they get from the club. It just never ends. I try to live in a way that if one of my children walked through the door, would I want them to know that I do this. No matter the age of the child. Personally I am sick and tired of having someone's a** or b**bs in my face all the time. I have an imagination that I can use.

Is it really something that should be acceptable?

Is it really something we should try to live up to?

I DON'T THINK SO.

What message are we sending our children?

I just wanted to add, that if we talk open and honestly with our kids, that much of their curiousity would probably go away. We should be the source for our children. I don't want my kids to get wrong information. It is my job as a parent to make sure they are educated. They don't have to hear everything from me, but I do need to try to make sure that sources are available for them.

I know this is a sand issue... but every time I go to a site that explains what porn is I run into a virus... so I guess porn is harmful at least to my computer

Way to go Luna :) I like it..!

Allheart, usually the schools, or at least the one's I have been to(6), have handed out parental information/consent things. Over the summer we had a huge discussion here on this site about porn itself, it started from the idea of legalizing prostitution, and I still believe that there is a balance out there. And I think it starts with schools and the parents. Denying it's existence only allows for the kids to become so curious that they search for it on the own, i.e. experiment. Throwing it in their face will most likely cause problems, mentally and physically, sending the wrong message that sex is OK under any circumstances. Therefore, it should be a mix, and the course of action I believe still lies with the parents. And I think the one thing they need to do is just explain it to them. There is no stopping it, or quarantining it. To the lady that had the grandson, I hate to say this, but your grandson most likely has seen porn. Either at a friends house or at school, or maybe even yours. I don't want you to get upset with me, as I am making no accusations, just an observation from the percentages of today's kids. And honestly, I lived this no longer than four years ago, and I think what I went through still applies today. The best you can do for any kid, is talk to them about it. But to be completely honest, I never got a talk. Anything I learned was from school or outside experiences. I understand it has to be hard as a parent to talk about it, and I think the school system would be best at giving information, they would make it the least awkard. None of my friends got a talk. You would be amazed at exactly how many kids never got a sex ed talk from their parents. And while I can't speak for everyone, I think my generation is coming out all right. Were not crazed, drugged, or sexually addicted. Maybe it's possible that this issue, isn't really an issue. I don't consider porn being an epidemic in today's children, and I have worked with my fair share. If your looking for the source of today's kids losing their innocence, is it really fair to blame the porn industry or porn itself? I believe the root of all evil is the school system. With the ever increasing importance being placed upon national intelligence and no child left behind act, schools(middle and high) are being instituted like a college and are losing their fundmental abilites to nuture a child's growing process. To me, at least, porn is a problem, but not on the top ten worry list.

I know this is a sand issue...but every time I go to a site that explains what porn is I run into a virus...so I guess porn is harmful at least to my computer

ROFLMAO

I am no expert on how harmful Porn is to children but I can tell you, from a personal viewpoint, that it can get out of hand very quickly. My BF (70) started just looking and now that is all he does is look at "girls" on ALT.com. It has gotten to the point that he locks the door to the computer room or has a quick escape button to bring up a solitare game anytime someone opens the door. He has spent $$$$$$ on BDSM junk and has gotten caught in CHAT rooms making arrangements to meet someone. All this from just a quick look. I have threatened to EXPOSE him to these ladies because it is not right to be in a relationship and do this stuff behind your partners back ( I am a good computer hacker or I would not have known)

Just an opinion and we all know what that is worth...

I know this is a sand issue...but every time I go to a site that explains what porn is I run into a virus...so I guess porn is harmful at least to my computer
LOL Or perhaps they should come with a warning like on your car's mirrors...
CAUTION: Objects presented here may appear larger than they are. :eek:


(All humor aside, I understand an addiction is very serious Kat and hope you are able to persuade him into seeking some help)

My two cents:

I think that porn should be avoided. I think this can be something that can be addicting. Let me explain. A person gets just a peek. Of course everyone is curious. Then a peek turns into a full see. Which can lead to a live look, which can lead to a live touch, which can lead to sex, etcetera, etcetera. I'm not sure it's okay to look at naked people.

There are so many things wrong here I had to wait until I could devote the time to reply properly.

Let me start with the last sentence above. There is nothing wrong with the human body. Nudes have been part of art for ages. Naturalists/Nudists are among the most well adjusted people in the world. Its certain elements of society that have made viewing nudes taboo. And many of them are some of the most mal-adjusted people I've encountered.

What's wrong with most porn is that it tends to be sex for sex's sake and doesn't play up the beauty of sexual intimacy as a sharing between two people who care for each other.

Lets talk about this guy you know who talks about rape. Ask any cop or criminal psychologist and they will tell you that rape is NOT about sex, its about power and control over another person. There has been very little proof that porn stimulates violence against women.

I think the main attraction for porn to most people is a release. At least for adults it rarely leads to sex with strangers. One of the outgrowths of the video and Internet porn revolution is that quality has increased. The industry has gone way beyond the grainy 16mm images sent in unmarked envelopes. Production quality, the attempt to actually have a story line to improve the acting etc. have all increased. So that much porn is no longer as demeaning and exploitative as it was 15 years ago.

The argument that one thing leads to another has been made time and time again over the years and its rarely been proven. Yes it happens, but it's the exception not the rule. If things were as bad as you indicate then we would have a lot more sex crime then exists. With so much money being spent on porn, how come rapes and other sexual crimes are declining? How come teenage pregnancy is declining?

The only thing I agree with in your note is the closing paragraph. And I strongly support that as I've said myself. A large part of the attraction of porn, especially to young people, is the that its taboo. If young kids are raised in an open environment, if they are educated about sex properly, if they are taught the real values of sexual intimacy, they are less likely to turn to porn or abuse it or abuse sex.

Here is an arrticle which gives a list of negatives in relation to pornography. Hope it contributes to answering your question.

1. Pornography facilitates child molestation.

Excerpt

* 87% of convicted molesters of girls, and 77% of convicted molesters of boys, admit to the use of pornography, most often in the commission of their crimes.

http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKoH0HhFfCgAuDFrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=12i05ignn/EXP=1165631879/**http%3a//www.levelbest.com/design/sites/enough/pornisharmful.htm



Statistical support concerning porn's negative effects can be found here:

excerpt

UNICEF estimates that one million children are forced into prostitution or used to produce pornography each year. Many are handed over (or sold) by their families driven by the extremes of poverty... The Internet also has given dealers in child pornography a far bigger audience--and anonymity.
http://www.levelbest.com/design/sites/enough/stats.htm


A study done by Dr. Elizabeth Oddone-Paolucci and Dr. Mark Genuis, based on 12000 participants led to the following conclusion:

excerpt:
... exposure to pornography puts viewers at increased risk for developing sexually deviant tendencies, committing sexual offenses, experiencing difficulties in intimate relationships, and accepting of the rape myth.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=17683

Here is an arrticle which gives a list of negatives in relation to pornography. Hope it contributes to answering your question.


That is rather interesting, but it goes against a lot of what I have read previously. The thing I found distrubing was there were almost no citations for all the statistics listed.

That is rather interesting, but it goes against a lot of what I have read previously. The thing I found distrubing was there were almost no citations for all the statistics listed.



THE PRIMARY EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY

(1) Even "soft" porn is harmful to everyone.
(2) All pornography desensitizes the viewer.
(3) Pornography is addictive.
(4) Pornography degrades marriages.
(5) Pornography increases crime in dangerous offenders.
(6) Pornography encourages and facilitates other crimes.



These impacts are also listed in The Hill-Link Minority Report of the Presidential Commission on Obscenity and Pornography. A copy of this report, written in 1970, may be ordered from Morality in Media, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, New York 10115.


In many cases, the issue of Hustler magazine that describes how to perform the so-called "orgasm of death" have been found at the feet of the victims.[5]

R. Hazelwood, P. Dietz, and A. Burgess. "The Investigation of Autoerotic Fatalities." Journal of Police Science and Administration. September 1981, 404-411. See also the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, August 25, 1990.


More than 65 studies have shown that dangerous offenders (child molesters, killers, rapists, incest fathers) are not only more likely to commit their crimes if they employ pornography, they are likely to precede their violent acts with the extended use of deviant materials.

The Hill-Link Minority Report of the Presidential Commission on Obscenity and Pornography. This report may be ordered from Morality in Media, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, New York 10115.


British psychiatrists Martin Roth and Edward Nelson state that "Far from having a cathartic effect, exposure to pornography produces an enhanced interest in sexual deviancy."

"Porn Traffickers Share Guilt in Sexual Murders." The Wanderer, March 9, 1989, page 2.


The rest is accessible via this link.
If you still disagree then I guess we just differ in our opinions.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC134.HTM


BTW

(Matthew 5:27-32)

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I guess it depend on what you feel the word 'harmful' means...
One could make the point that everyone should learn about sex and sexuality and that if we keep all the children sheltered from it then we are doing them harm by not attending to their curiosity
One could also argue that pornography portrays sexual activity very negatively and a teenager learning about sex would not pick up the right attitude towards sex by watching it and learning from it
I personally believe that pornography degrades the morality and ethics of those involved in it, some things are so sick to mention, I'm sure you all know what I mean
But porn being 'harmful' to a 13 year old...
Probably not. Maybe its not the best way to learn, but every kid in they're youth is going to look up porn, its just how it is. I say let them look, but make sure they understand its not real and that they shouldn't take all of what they see seriously

There is a lot to agree with from just about everyone on this thread. Some people think its fine to have kids growing up more quick these days, and others want to keep the youth and innocence.

When I was like 7or 8 my older brother confiscated some playboys from our dads toolbox. (it was locked but he somehow got he key). My brother showed these to me, and while I was very confused and shocked, I would definitely say I lost my innocence then. Not all of it of course, but I started wondering what other boys and girls looked like naked and what they did together. I haven't become any sort of pervert now, but I do remember touching myself back then, curious of why those areas were 'special' for adults.

I don't know what I am trying to prove here... but I agree with Rose. Porn may not 'harm' a child and make them all out of wack... but I think it takes away their youth. Porn is just not something anyone under 18 should be exposed to... They should be at an age when they can understand what they are seeing and evaluate whether it is right or wrong, plus understand the thoughts that go through their mind when seeing sexual activities... a 13 year old has a hard enough time realizing they are even attracted to other people, let alone what they could Do with those other people..

THE PRIMARY EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY

(1) Even "soft" porn is harmful to everyone.
(2) All pornography desensitizes the viewer.
(3) Pornography is addictive.
(4) Pornography degrades marriages.
(5) Pornography increases crime in dangerous offenders.
(6) Pornography encourages and facilitates other crimes.



These impacts are also listed in The Hill-Link Minority Report of the Presidential Commission on Obscenity and Pornography. A copy of this report, written in 1970, may be ordered from Morality in Media, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, New York 10115.

Hello Stardude:

You're silly! You forgot (7) Pornography causes hair to grow on your palms...

Morality in Media?? What's that, a place run by Ted Haggart?? Bwa ha ha ha.

excon

I believe kids do grow up too fast, and not enough supervision, and my own rule is if they ask tell them the truth in a way they understand, so I think it best to know the kids first and be ready, or you will find your cabbage patch story cute, but they will already know and blow you and your cute stories off forever. I think its unrealistic too think 13 year olds don't know about porn, sex, or drugs and you better catch them early just to give them guidance. Never assume anything and use those parental controls for the TV and computer, which goes in the family room anyway. Just my cent as I've had my eyes opened, not only by my kids, but grand kids also. They know and have seen more than you think. If you don't fill in the blanks ,trust me someone else will.

Wholesale approval or disapproval hits me as some amazingly black and white thinking. Not to really wind things up here but I think there are a number of "adult" things that fall into what I call the "context really matters" category. Here is such an example: Guns. I think guns are not so different from porn in that it makes a profound difference who has it, what kind it is and how its being used as to whether its actually harmful or not. There is a pretty broad spectrum to both guns and porn in the world. To miss those details is to miss a lot. Who here can take exception to guns and kids or porn and kids isn't the wisest of mixes without adult supervision? Like Tal suggests, I would like to see kids get their sexual information from balanced sources... so parents' voices had better be in the mix. But the original argument that set this off was based on a woman objecting to her kid seeing some porn on the basis that she felt it was harmful, I believe, and that should be any parent's right to object to, whether it damages the kid in some documentable way or not. It's a quid pro quo argument that says if you don't think its harmful to kids, then you'll probably not take as many measures to prevent your kid from seeing it as the parent who thinks it is harmful. End of argument. LOL

Porn is very addictive.
Some people who view porn start to think that it is normal and start to expect there boyfriend or girlfriend to do the stuff they view. Some of it is normal and some of it isn't normal. You have to be able to tell what is normal and what isn't normal.

Remember to keep your feet on the ground and don't believe everything you see or read.

I think that there are a lot of rapes out there because some people think what they saw is normal and there partners tells them they don't want to do it and they force them to do it anyway.

Porn is very addictive.

Very much so.


Some people who view porn start to think that it is normal and start to expect there boyfriend or girlfriend to do the stuff they view.

And get mad when the partner doesn't do what the want.


Remember to keep your feet on the ground and don't believe everything you see or read

Its only a movie and the actors get paid good money for what they do.
Good points crazytrain.

I don't know if this will help or only further confuse but I could never seem to get my hands on anything resembling an official definition of pornograpy addiction when I was in the recovery business (which I recently quit) and if we use the conventional standard less may actually "qualify" then you might think.

I did some fast googling about pornography addiction and can't say that I am impressed with the impartiality of many of the sites. The closest one to that I could find is this:
http://internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html

But even at that site, there are some goofy looking stats, at least to me.

And to see if they even correlate, I looked at this one too despite its obvious slant:
http://www.blazinggrace.org/pornstatistics.htm

Suffice to say when an internet addiction or a sexual addiction or porn addiction (and now you can see what adds to the statistical problems) occurs, there is plenty of suffering for everyone then.

Let me start with the last sentence above. There is nothing wrong with the human body. Nudes have been part of art for ages. Naturalists/Nudists are among the most well adjusted people in the world. Its certain elements of society that have made viewing nudes taboo. And many of them are some of the most mal-adjusted people I've encountered.

I can agree that nudity for art may be all right, if tastefully done. I can see that a problem would arise because everyone's tastes are different.


What's wrong with most porn is that it tends to be sex for sex's sake and doesn't play up the beauty of sexual intimacy as a sharing between two people who care for each other.

I think that most porn is quite degrading towards women and I think this can cause problems.


The argument that one thing leads to another has been made time and time again over the years and its rarely been proven. Yes it happens, but its the exception not the rule. If things were as bad as you indicate then we would have a lot more sex crime then exists. With so much money being spent on porn, how come rapes and other sexual crimes are declining? How come teenage pregnancy is declining?

Don't you see that a problem exists if it porn contributes even 10% of the time to any acts against children or other person. I completely disagree that things don't escalate. I just heard that teenage pregnancies are on the rise.

Finally, I would just like to say that children are children for only a short time, why be in such a hurry to let them grow up. I am a firm believer that you should not shelter your children, but I do think that you should let them be children. They have a long enough time to be grown up... why push? I think that most children will be curious and yearn to learn new things in their own time, just let them.

I don't look at anything online or read anything, I wouldn't mind my children looking up.

I didn't want to further hijack the thread where I made that statement. So I'm moving this discussion here.

So explain to me how they would be harmed? Obviously they aren't going to be physically harmed. Do you really believe that that someone, especially a 13 year old in western cultures, will be seriously scarred by being exposed to some graphic images of sex? What do you expect to happen? Will they become rapists, frigid, what?

I'm not advocating porn here. But I just find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people, of any age, will be seriously affected by seeing some porn. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by my stated opinion above.
Hello,

I'm married to man that is a victim of porn and I can shed a little light on how it's harmful. In my opinion -- when young kids view porn -- they lose the human element of sexuality. My husband started viewing porn when he was in first grade - his dad thought it was good for him and supplied it. By the time my husband was in his teens and should've been experimenting with girls his own age -- he didn't bother because he had his own fantasy world that didn't need anyone help to meet his needs. The other part he's now having to deal with as an adult -- he has to learn how to deal with a partner and their needs. At times, he views women as you would a book -- an object. Their genitals are all he see's and he has arousal problems with out seeing porn as an adult.

I hope this adds to the discussion and I hope will change a few minds on how and why porn is so bad for everyone -- even the ones that don't see or use it.

Chebba709 (see my post in marriage -- husband's porn addiction)