I have 1 original notorized divorcement agreement that I've just noticed was not signed by me. Two others are a copy with different signatures that also look forged (copied). I don't know what to do and lawyers want a retainer fee which I don't have. Does a notarized document need a witness? Shouldn't the original and a copy be the same?

The notary public is the witness - the purpose of the notary is to cerify that the people who signed the document in his/her presence are who they say they are. If you have copies of a document without signatures, it should not have the notary seal on it - so perhaps the copies were made before the documents were actually signed. You can always contact the notary to find out who signed the document in front of him/her.

Are you trying to overturn the divorce agreement?

What do you mean you just noticed? How long has it been ?

The notory is the witness, they require proff of ID before the person signs.

You will need an attorney, if you wish to challenge the court case, because of this.

The document will have a raised seal. ID would have to be presented to the Notary and recorded (e.g Driver's Lic #) even if they know who you are. That info should be in their logs.

You have to sign in front of them.

The notary public is the witness - the purpose of the notary is to cerify that the people who signed the document in his/her presence are who they say they are. If you have copies of a document without signatures, it should not have the notary seal on it - so perhaps the copies were made before the documents were actually signed. You can always contact the notary to find out who signed the document in front of him/her.

I will do that. The signature on the copy of the notarized original is totally different than the "original" signature which is forged. Shouldn't the copy be the same as the original?

Some details on various posts above are not necessarily correct in all states, but by-and-large accurate.

But beyond all that:

What difference does it make?

Did you sign a divorce agreement?
If so, are any of the provisions, in the document you have, different from the provisions you agreed to?
Has a decree been entered on the basis of this agreement?

If the copied document itself is exactly the same as the original word for word, then the original document with the notary seal will be the one accepted by the Court. If the others are just xerox copies then they will not stand up in court.

Which has your signature on - the original or the xerox copy? If your signature is not on the original, then just what was used in the jurat to properly identify the individual signing the document? Was a driver's license # listed? Or another form of identification? I was a notary in Florida for many years and would never notarize a document without the person providing a picture ID to me and notating same in the jurat section AND the person being physically present in front of me so I could make them take an oath that they were in fact Suzy Jones (or whoever).

Thank you everyone! I contacted the notary who witnessed. I signed page 16 and she was my witness. Page 17 is her seal with my name forged underneath. The reason I'm asking is because I owned a business with my ex and my name is still on "everything" as an active manager. I may need these documents in the future.

I have 1 original notorized divorcement agreement that I've just noticed was not signed by me. Two others are a copy with different signatures that also look forged (copied). I don't know what to do and lawyers want a retainer fee which I don't have. Does a notarized document need a witness? Shouldn't the original and a copy be the same?

Thank you everyone! I contacted the notary who witnessed. I signed page 16 and she was my witness. Page 17 is her seal with my name forged underneath. The reason I'm asking is because I owned a business with my ex and my name is still on "everything" as an active manager. I may need these documents in the future.:rolleyes:

If it's a conformed copy the signatures will be different. I have also seen originals bearing signatures and copies which have a conformed signature of the person and just a notary stamp (no signature at all) for the notary.

What matters is the ORIGINAL, not the copy.

I don't understand what you mean by divorcement agreement. Is it a separation agreement, a division of property?

Divorcement is not a word.

... The reason I'm asking is because ... I may need these documents in the future.:rolleyes:

As JudyKT mentioned, what you are looking at may have been intended as a "conformed copy". Is the copy at issue in the court file or is it your ex's copy, one of you attorney's copy, etc?

- And while we're talking about this, what about initials on every page?

Some details on various posts above are not necessarily correct in all states, but by-and-large accurate.

But beyond all that:

What difference does it make?

Did you sign a divorce agreement?
If so, are any of the provisions, in the document you have, different from the provisions you agreed to?
Has a decree been entered on the basis of this agreement?

The divorce agreement/decree reads: XXX (me) shall deed this property to YYY and YYY shall be responsible for all loans, insurance, etc. XXX (me) shall LIKEWISE EXECUTE ALL DOCUMENTS NECESSARY TO REMOVE XX(me) AS PARTNER/SHAREHOLDER/MANAGER OF (said companies). ALL DOCUMENTS SHALL BE EXECUTED AT THE TIME OF THE SIGNING OF THIS AGREEMENT.

If my name has not been officially removed and I did not "execute any documents to remove me" and is still listed as ACTIVE secretary/treasurer/manager/stockholder, did this divorce decree take care of that?

What do you mean you just noticed? How long has it been ?

This divorce decree was signed in 2004. I was abused by my (ex) and had to sign in order for him to stop harassing me and just leave me alone. He had me committed prior to this for a so-called "attempt of suicide." While committed (incarcerated) he wiped out all bank accounts to the business.

The documents do not automatically "take care" of everything. They have to be filed and any associated paperwork completed.

If your husband had you committed and you signed the papers under stress you need an Attorney to figure all of this out. This is not a simple question.

- And while we're talking about this, what about initials on every page?

There are no initials on any page

As JudyKT mentioned, what you are looking at may have been intended as a "conformed copy". Is the copy at issue in the court file or is it your ex's copy, one of you attorney's copy, etc?

I'm new to this forum, please bear with me. I signed (according to the notary) three originals. I signed page 16, the notary signed page 17. The original copy I received, has my signature also on page 17. The other copies have a different signature on that same page. I believe I may have signed it after the fact when my ex took me to court for child support. Again, I was in a state of distress, but I do remember signing "something" in the months after at that court date which was Off the record because his lawyer filed incorrectly. I thought I was signing something to the extent of agreeing off the record to report my earnings when I got a job.

[QUOTE=kymbattack agrees : Divorcement? It's a Separation and Property Settlement Agreement. Prior to the divorce, we sold the house. In the Agreement it states that all documents necessary to remove me from the business shall be executed by me. "All documents shall be execute
.[/QUOTE]


You said you have a divorcement agreement. I've never heard that term. Separation agreement, divorce decree, property settlement agreement. Those are all familiar terms to me.

The agreement must be executed and filed in order to take effect. There is often additional paperwork required - for example, the divorce decree grants "me" title to a marital home. A new Deed has to be executed and filed.

Specifically - I WAS awarded the marital home. My "ex" refused to sign a new Deed. The house remained in both names. There was no "mortgage" problem - he simply refused to sign. Therefore, the property remained joint until I made a Motion and a Judge held him in contempt. Then he signed and the new Deed was filed.

The Judgment of Divorce alone was NOT sufficient to convey the property.

There has to be backup paperwork and there probably should have been backup filings.

It is almost impossible to know when you are not certain what you signed.

This divorce decree was signed in 2004. I was abused by my (ex) and had to sign in order for him to stop harassing me and just leave me alone. He had me committed prior to this for a so-called "attempt of suicide." While committed (incarcerated) he wiped out all bank accounts to the business.



... I signed (according to the notary) three originals. I signed page 16, the notary signed page 17. The original copy I received, has my signature also on page 17. The other copies have a different signature on that same page. I believe I may have signed it after the fact when my ex took me to court for child support. Again, I was in a state of distress, but I do remember signing "something" in the months after at that court date which was Off the record because his lawyer filed incorrectly. I thought I was signing something to the extent of agreeing off the record to report my earnings when I got a job.

Ok. It's clear, from what you have said, that you signed at least one version of the agreement. Whether there are other copies of the same agreement that you maybe signed, maybe didn't sign, is beside the point. You signed the agreement, so quibbling about possibly "forged" signatures isn't going to get you anywhere, in my opinion.

What might be a viable means to set the agreement aside is the fact that you were, when you signed it, in an institution for mental issues. It's possible that a court would hold that you were mentally incompetent when you signed it and therefore didn't have the legal capacity to agree. That's what I would focus on.

Ok. It's clear, from what you have said, that you signed at least one version of the agreement. Whether there are other copies of the same agreement that you maybe signed, maybe didn't sign, is beside the point. You signed the agreement, so quibbling about possibly "forged" signatures isn't going to get you anywhere, in my opinion.

What might be a viable means to set the agreement aside is the fact that you were, when you signed it, in an institution for mental issues. It's possible that a court would hold that you were mentally incompetent when you signed it and therefore didn't have the legal capacity to agree. That's what I would focus on.

Thank you, I agree. I am only concerned that my name is still active and a part of the property/business. Whether I act on that or not I'm not sure. My ex has his second dui, the LCB may step in. If they do, I suppose it will be then that all of this is brought forward. Thank you for your help, opinion, and advice.

You said you have a divorcement agreement. I've never heard that term. Separation agreement, divorce decree, property settlement agreement. Those are all familiar terms to me.

The agreement must be executed and filed in order to take effect. There is often additional paperwork required - for example, the divorce decree grants "me" title to a marital home. A new Deed has to be executed and filed.

Specifically - I WAS awarded the marital home. My "ex" refused to sign a new Deed. The house remained in both names. There was no "mortgage" problem - he simply refused to sign. Therefore, the property remained joint until I made a Motion and a Judge held him in contempt. Then he signed and the new Deed was filed.

The Judgment of Divorce alone was NOT sufficient to convey the property.

There has to be backup paperwork and there probably should have been backup filings.

It is almost impossible to know when you are not certain what you signed.

I apologize for the "divorcement" my fingers type faster than I realize. The separation/property settlement says that I deed the business and property to my ex and all documents will be executed at the signing of said separation/property settlement agreement. I sold the house, with the proper settlement and transfer papers. He was there, he also signed. Anything to do with the business property and property is still in tact. I never signed anything and he told me that the separation/property settlement took care of that. I am an intelligent human being who was abused at the time. Another questions is can he sell the establishment, business, or liquor license without my signature? Should I sit tight and wait for "something" to happen? I don't have money to pursue this and he is in so much debt that if he had to buy me out, he'd file for bankruptcy first.