What are the consequences of my child's Mom taking our kid and moving out of state without prior notification to me? I researched my state law and it basically said if one parent moves they must notify the other parent and either get his/her consent or gain approval from the court and it should be in the best interest of the kid. Our divorce and temporary custody was thrown out in last year due to Mom not showing. I didn't have the money for an attorney to continue the case. It wasn't until fall of last year that my home state discovered she moved elsewhere more than 2 hours away into a whole new state. I confronted the Mom on this and she was surprised as to how I found out. The Mom then said if I did not withdraw medicaid benefits/child support from our child that she would keep the child from me.

We continued week to week sharing after the custody was thrown out. Then during the fall of last year after discovering the truth, Mom continued making threats to keep our child and interfered with our agreement of shared visitation. My child's Mom wouldn't be home at her supposed address that I had been picking the kid up for years. She would either not be there and I would have to plead with her to let me have the kid or force me to wait 4 hours for her to show up.

In Mom's pleadings, she says that she moved years ago. If in fact she moved, wouldn't she be in violation of a court order which was in effect during said years? In her pleadings, she wants to continue living in new state along with the child but it has been determined that my home state currently holds jurisdiction over the child and because that's where the case originated. Mom has also been ordered to pay child support due to being in default by not showing up for court and also because we are separated and that she moved to another state. So support was enforced on her. This all happened because I filed for health benefits for the kid and then the state dept. sent me a letter verifying her address. However, I later signed a paper to reduce her monthly payments to a considerable amount in order to be with my kid because she threatened to keep the child if I did not. The payments were reduced to a lowly $60 a month. I cannot for the life of me, find a copy of this letter that I signed and faxed to the state dept. Regardless, this is no where near enough for our kid whenever he is with me.

My kid stayed with me for another week after I discovered Mom lived elsewhere, our child's Mom elected not to show up to pick up our kid during her turn. To further prevent any kind of threat to keep our kid from me, I decided it was best that he stay here until we re-established joint custody. I consulted with an attorney later on and I notified the Mom that I would like to finalize our divorce and re-establish joint physical custody because it would be in the best interest of our child. Now I know it is not wise to give information like that to your ex but I don't withhold information like that especially from our kid's Mom.

My attorney believes Mom has no alibi to support herself. He believes she is not telling her attorney everything and he's unaware that we filed for divorce and had joint custody prior to her moving years ago. A few months ago, after I urged the Mom to visit our child, the Mom abruptly decides it's time to visit. I told her she can visit my home and visit our kid as long as she comes alone and no one else because that would make me uncomfortable.

It turns out the Mom arrives with her boyfriend. After the Mom spends considerable time in my home with the kid, she runs out the door while the kid has no shoes, no coat, in freezing temps. As I try to follow Mom out the door, I am met by her boyfriend who literally surprised me as he came out of a dark corner outside the front door. He shoves me backwards, proceeds to get into my face and laugh and tell me there's nothing I can do. As I get up to chase the Mom, he follows me and will not get off me. Later, the struggle is taken to the ground where Mom's boyfriend's phone is left behind. I have the phone in my possession right now to add the proof to my story.

When I made my way to the vehicle, the child lock was on the rear door when Mom's boyfriend entered. I could not get my child and found the kid crying in the backseat with no legal child restraint. No car seat, no booster seat, strapped up with the seat belt with no shoes and no coat on, no cap on the child's head to keep the kid warm.

It has now been a few months and the Mom will not harbor any kind of relationship with me and our child while she lives in another state in a great distance. I am forced with limited telephone contact and each time I do have contact with our child, our kid is referring me by my first name while I hear laughter in the background. Mom also says I am not allowed to visit our kid or have our child with me until a court decides but there is no court order stating that. Currently, no one has custody of the child, there are no standing orders at the moment. Mom fled to another state years ago without notifying me, or approval being granted by the court.

While I applied for medicaid benefits last fall for our kid, Mom told my home state that we have shared custody and he doesn't need it because she has health insurance. I was never aware of the kid being covered by health insurance whatsoever and how can she say this when she doesn't even live in the home state of the child? Although the Mom and I upheld shared custody, it was conflicted each time as Mom wanted to keep the kid for two weeks at a time and change the times/days on when to pick the child up. It wasn't until last fall that I discovered the real truth. My attorney thinks that is why Mom made threats, and gave the Mom the motive to come to my home and physically remove our kid from my home. I believe it was staged by the kid's Mom and her boyfriend and my attorney believes the same. After the Mom and boyfriend physically removed the child from me, a few days later she claimed an attorney advised her to do it and that her attorney advised her that when she does get him, to not allow me to see the child until the court decides.

That's my story and it's pretty straightforward, no holes or loops but a deposition has been ordered on Mom to get a statement under oath and the same with her boyfriend. We believe both their stories will be convoluted as they will be surprised by the unexpected deposition. The attorney also is holding back his cards to not give her attorney any room to work with. He wants to surprise all of them. My question is -- How do you think the Judge who previously handled our divorce/temp shared custody is going to react to all of this? What kind of decision will he lean towards? Is it not wrong for a parent to move to another state without prior legal notification and allowing the other parent to know about her living circumstances? Is it not against the law? Did Mom not take the law into her own hands while disregarding the repercussions of such a foolish decision to move? Are there not any repercussions for this? If I have broken any law, surely I should be the one who is punished.

I have no friends, I don't do drugs, I don't drink, all that brings me joy in this world is my kid. My family are my true friends, I see them all the time and talk to them all the time along with my kid. I am not a violent man. I have unconditional love for my child. My kid is my life and everything that I have in me. The kid is a blessing to me and I am thankful the Mother gave birth to our child but my entire chain of family lives within 5-10 minutes of me, the child has strong relationships with everyone, they love my kid, the child has friends and so many memories that have forced to be forgotten because of Mom's selfishness right now while she has no family support there other than her boyfriend's family. There is but one negative thing on my part -- I am struggling to find employment but I rely on financial support from the family until this is solved and I am praying that I find a job soon.

Given the situation stated here, our kid is at an age where the distance and shared custody would certainly interfere with the child's education. He is one year away from kindergarten. The Mom verbally agreed with me that the kid's schooling be held in my home state. In our previous divorce/temp custody order it was said we were both only allowed to move out of both of our parent's home if we had suitable employment and independent housing.

The independent housing part has constantly been violated by Mom since she sublet her Mother's house and had so many different friends of hers that had children moving in and out. Now she lives with a boyfriend in a new state? What I believe is the grandmother came back and wanted the house back after my kid's Mom was subletting it and she decided to move with her boyfriend into his parents home in a different state.

If there were to be an emergency for our child, it would take a heroic effort for me to be there due to the distance, time, and cost of transportation. No amount of phone contact can ever substitute physical time with my child. These things are priceless to a child, they are the moments where the memories are made. I am praying to see my kid soon and receive justice from the court system and my attorney told me there may be a hearing soon as well. I am praying to end this thing soon and for my kid, myself, and the Mom to move on with our lives and continue to be a part of our child's life regardless of what the court's decision may be.

God Bless.

Also I forgot to add that the home state is NE. I list child and kid as to not be too revealing in the post.

And you are still living in NE ?

A lot will also depend on how long she has been gone before you file,

You need an attorney

And you are still living in NE ?

Alot will also depend on how long she has been gone before you file,

You need an attorney

Yes I am. I have lived in the same residence since the day my kid was born. Basically she and I upheld shared visitation but since the discovery of her move, that's when the threats came. Now Mom came to my home along with boyfriend to physically remove the kid from me. I filed first in the home state before her, it has been a few months now since I have seen my kid.

I do have an attorney and so does she. They already filed a counterclaim and have done nothing but deny all allegations against her while her attorney is completely unaware of any prior divorce/custody order because in her pleading it states she moved years ago. If that's true, then she moved while the home state had both jurisdiction and while a custody order was in place. Along with that, there was never any notification of such a move, if there was, I would have challenged it. So, no notification, no consent, no court approval. Since none of these ever came about, I couldn't challenge the move because I was completely fooled and unaware of it.

Why didn't you file right away for emergency custody and or file kidnapping charges against the mother and boyfriend? You should have already filed an exparte motion with the courts granting you custody and the reasons stating why.

I'm confused. If you have custody, or it was your visitation time and she came and tried to take the child why didn't you call the police right then? Why haven't you filed for contempt of court as soon as you knew of the move? A lot of this doesn't make sense.

Why didnt you file right away for emergency custody and or file kidnapping charges against the mother and boyfriend? You should have already filed an exparte motion with the courts granting you custody and the reasons stating why.

The attorney is going to file ex-parte and present it at the hearing in a few weeks. I initially consulted with an attorney and was going to bring back the divorce work/temp custody order. I notified Mom of my intentions. She then took the child from me, shortly after a motion was filed to bring back temp custody and it was denied by the judge. He wants to hear her story too.

I called the police when it happened and they said I could not file kidnapping charges because there was no standing custody order and that it was a civil matter. All I could do was file assault charges on boyfriend but I was not injured or hurt. He just interfered and surprised me with the ambush. Do you think the Mom/Boyfriend face possible child abduction charges given that they took the kid and haven't let me see the child in months and have given me limited contact and am not allowed to see him?

I mean, taking a kid without a coat and shoes in freezing temperatures without a legal child restraint should be classified as child abuse. I even told the police that and it went through one ear and out the other. It was brought up in the motion to bring back joint custody too but the judge still denied it and wants to hear Mom's side of the story, and there really isn't one. There's no way you can justify an action of a parent that leads one parent on and then takes the kid from them physically while their boyfriend attacks the father. That's messed up and was obviously pre-determined.

I'm confused. If you have custody, or it was your visitation time and she came and tried to take the child why didn't you call the police right then? Why haven't you filed for contempt of court as soon as you knew of the move? A lot of this doesn't make sense.

If you want, you can read it again. There was no custody order. It got thrown out last year due to Mom not showing. Mom and I continued shared custody since then until 8 months later when the threats came and I discovered Mom's true where abouts. Once I found that out along with the help of the state, the Mom was freaking out and panicked I think by making threats to keep him and then showing up at my house for a visit and taking the child away. I called the police right after they left. They didn't do anything. I hired my attorney about a week to two weeks after this happened. He's a very, very busy and backed up attorney. One of the best.

I have also told my attorney that I will consider joint custody if the Mother moved back to my area to make schooling easier for the child. If she refuses the offer, then she should be responsible for all transportation and costs since she was the one who moved. If I am awarded custody and Mom has a change of circumstance and decides to move back to my home state, she may pickup the child after school to spend time with her. I will only accept all of that if it is written that neither of us can move out of state unless it is in the best interest of the child and a parenting plan is agreed upon.

My offer if awarded custody is that Mom gets kid half the summer, shared holidays, and we share the birthdays. On the even years, I get the child from the night before his birthday until 4pm on the day of his birthday. The Mom will then be able to have the child on his birthday from 4pm until 8pm when the child must be returned. During the odd years, Mom will have the child on the night before his birthday from 8pm until 4pm on his birthday and the child must be returned. Mom will get him on Mother's day. If she is in my home state area, and let me knows that no more than a week in advance, the child may be allowed to spend time with the Mother but must be returned at a reasonable hour no later than 8pm. If Mom elects to, she may pick up the child during an off day of school and spend time with her until the kid is returned. Mom may also participate in activities for the child such as sports and recreation as much as possible.

Basically, I know the kid needs Mom just as much as he needs me. I'm willing to work with her on that and accept joint custody if she were living here and could not live elsewhere and nor could she threaten to keep the child in an undisclosed location. If she finally snapped out of it and realized being near her child is more important than losing custody, then joint custody I will accept and both of us can be involved in the child's life without a struggle and be able to both be involved with his education and activities.

The kid deserves both of us and I have always looked at it this way. The Mom is very unreasonable and wants full custody and me have nothing to do with the child. In our divorce, she wanted everything from me along with full custody and a restraining order. My kid's mom blames me and says I "ruined her life by causing her to be pregnant."

The point is, can I present this offer to her or her attorney or my attorney or the judge himself? How will it hold up in court being that my attorney said it would be best to seek full custody of the child? I told him during our first meeting joint custody works so well when both parents live in the same vicinity and are both involved in his life. But she cannot be trusted. If she moved without notifying me before and me not knowing this for 2 years straight, she'll do it again. I'm hoping the Judge realizes this too.

One other thing must be noted. The Mom's boyfriend has 7 records on file and one criminal record in which he was found guilty about 5 years ago. Whether that will mean much in my case for custody vs. my ex, I'm not quite sure?

Again, this doesn't sound right. You were married then you split up and filed for divorce. You said a temp custody order existed. If one parent doesn't show up at the hearing the order isn't thrown out, its awarded by default. Even if not, as the legal father you have de facto joint custody. This means the mother cannot legally remove the child from your control without a court order. You probably did not explain the situation properly to the police. Your lawyer should file charges of parental kidnapping against her along with everything else! And why is he waiting weeks to file the ex parte? I can understand waiting for a hearing but not waiting to file.

Again, this doesn't sound right. You were married then you split up and filed for divorce. You said a temp custody order existed. If one parent doesn't show up at the hearing the order isn't thrown out, its awarded by default. Even if not, as the legal father you have de facto joint custody. This means the mother cannot legally remove the child from your control without a court order. You probably did not explain the situation properly to the police. Your lawyer should file charges of parental kidnapping against her along with everything else! And why is he waiting weeks to file the ex parte? I can understand waiting for a hearing but not waiting to file.

I'm not sure what the attorney is up to. He's a very busy attorney. I mean he has like 200 clients. He's one of the top attorney's around. A temp custody order existed, yes, and divorce was in the process what happened was I showed up for the hearing but no Judge showed. I spoke with the clerk who said the Judge threw the case out anyway. I do not know how it works, I'm no lawyer that's why I came here to get second opinions from others...

I was told that it's not considered parental kidnapping since both the Mom and I are technically still married but separated (although not legally) so each parent has equal rights to the child (or so I'm told.) He said he wants to throw ex parte in her face/her attorney's face right before the hearing to surprise them after presenting all the facts of what's happened recently. I honestly want to work it out with Mom but like I said, very unreasonable when it comes to the kid so I have to turn to a Judge and go this route instead.

Do you think I should talk with my attorney about possibly filing parental kidnapping or child abduction charges or won't the Judge see this himself? Also, does her boyfriend's criminal background and him being found guilty for something will have any kind of effect? Will Mom's extra-martial relationship/living with boyfriend in his home state be an advantage for me when it comes to our child?

Thank you. God Bless.

One of the reasons I have not filed any kind of charges is because I'm getting so many different opinions from people. I don't remember everything I told the police, I was so upset and shocked. When the police questioned me they turned my words against me as if I was lying when I was not which I found insulting. They told me there's nothing I can do, no standing court order, parents have equal rights and to consult with an attorney because they aren't lawyers and it's a civil matter. I argued and said, so the Mom shows up with her boyfriend and ambushes me, put's a toddler in a car with no shoes/coat and no legal restraint and that's OK?

I'm getting so many opinions stating that what the Mom did can be classified as child abduction but not kidnapping because of no custody order standing but Mom took the kid and is currently not harboring any kind of relationship between me and our child while being in a different state without no prior notification to me or the court, no consent from me, and no approval from the state. I can only talk to our kid on a limited basis when Mom deems it necessary. The Mom doesn't contact me at all either... Which is what I did whenever I had the kid with me. I am not allowed to see the child either until a "court decides" is what the Mom says. Even with all the information I've explained here, I explained to my attorney, I questioned him on if the Mother broke any law by not notifying me or the court (even though my state law clearly is in my favor, I just wanted his opinion) he said he didn't want to get into it and that it's a difficult situation. He kind of became aggravated by the question. I was kind of ticked off by it but I think he reacted to that question that way because he had 2-3 clients waiting for him and it was 7pm. He literally works day and night. I'm just going with his advice.

One of the reasons I think it's taking so long is because after Mom took child, I asked the attorney to bring back the previous custody order/divorce so I could re-establish that and to see if maybe the Judge would allow it and then force Mom to move back to home state but the Judge denied it after waiting about 3 weeks. I then filed for other stuff which took about a week or two, then the Mom waited about a month to respond. It's been a couple months now, Mom filed a counterclaim. I don't know what the hold up is now but I'm told a hearing will be coming real soon.

Sorry if what I type is a bit misunderstanding. The previous temporary custody order was joint physical 50/50 everything with split medical and no child support. Then it was thrown out because of due process? I think because Mom didn't show up and they said I didn't show up when I did. I waited in the court room for the Judge and he never showed that's when I spoke with the county clerk who said that the judge threw it out. Due to financial problems and the difficulty of paying for an attorney, I couldn't get one after that. It wasn't until almost a year that I could afford an attorney. After the divorce/temp custody was thrown out by the Judge, Mom and I upheld shared custody for 8 months until my home state discovered she lived elsewhere, then I confronted her on that, that is when Mom made those threats that if I didn't take the kid off medicaid or child support (enforced by the state) that I wouldn't be allowed to see him. I showed up at her house numerous times where I've shown up each time for years and Mom would make me wait hours on end to pick the child up (we're talking 2-4 hours,) where Mom will not let me see the child until I drop medicaid benefits, CS, etc. Then after I finally convinced her to let me take the child, she didn't show up for a week during her turn, I told her I wanted to finalize our divorce, re-establish joint custody, throw in the fact that the state enforced CS on her and knew her whereabouts, Mom literally freaked out and plotted a way to snatch the kid up. I don't think there is any other explanation for that. I was literally ambushed and surprised that the Mom's boyfriend interfered like that and the Mom took the kid without a coat, shoes, in freezing temps along with no legal child restraint in the backseat.

While I feel good heading into court, I'm nervous/scared. I don't want to get over confident, I want to stay humbled. That's why I wanted to come on here and seek different opinions from people that might have experience with this type of situation or have been through it.

God Bless.

I think you need to look at the judge throwing out the order. That sounds bogus to me. Judges do not just throw out a standing order. Do you have any documentation of the judge's decision?

Yes the court set its on motion that both of us show cause why the matter should not be dismissed for lack of prosecution. They then referred to her complaint filed years ago, my complaint. A scheduling order was filed to avoid dismissal a year later but the court did not sign a proposed scheduling order due to the parties lack of compliance. Both attorneys withdrew, and it was ordered that both parties show to discuss status of case, discovery issues, any motions that need to be scheduled prior to a trial and failure to appear will result in dismissal of the case due to lack of progression.

The case was then thrown out just last year. While neither the mom or myself had the money to divorce until months later after Mom flees to new state without telling me, followed by threats of keeping him, making me wait for hours to pick him up. We basically created our own parenting plan with no legal papers, just verbal agreement. That was interrupted the moment mom got caught living elsewhere and she started making it a habit of not being home when I would arrive to pickup the kid. Like said, she would show up 3-4 hours later and then the following week, she chose not to show for whatever reason. I maintained contact with the mom by phone, urged her to visit him and that we needed to re-establish joint custody and finalize our divorce. This was after the home state enforced child support and found out about where she lived then I found out, the Mom loses it and snatches the kid up at my house with the help of the boyfriend and I haven't seen my kid since then because she won't allow me to see him until a court decides and her pleading says she's lived there for years.

I'm just really scared of what the Judge is going to decide. I just know I am extremely upset with what's happened and I have always been a part of my kid's life until now because of the stunt the Mom pulled. I wish she could move back to the home state so we can share custody, agree on schooling, etc. But the Mom will not reason with me whatsoever. She wants full custody and won't take no for an answer.

Can anyone else speak on this?

My state signed the law of the Uniform Child Abduction Prevention Act a few years ago. Without having to explain the full details, basically the Mom did make threats she was going to keep the child in another state although never did so. She did however come to my house on an agreement that she would visit the child and that was it but she ended up physically taking him from me while her boyfriend attacked me outside the door. According to this child abduction act, would that not be considered child abduction since the mother made threats she was going to keep the child from me and then acted on it by removing the child from my home and fleeing to another state? Now I'm not allowed to see the child because she refuses to let me. I really don't understand this entire case. The Mom moved elsewhere without notifying me or the court and had me believe she lived in the home state when she did not. I file for health benefits for the child, the state realizes she lives elsewhere and we're separated, the state enforces child support on the mom and she ends up in default for not showing. I discover her whereabouts with the help of the state, I keep the child to prevent the mother from keeping the child out of the home state, the mom then goes on a hiatus for 2 months, abruptly wants to visit the child after I continuously urge her to visit him and call him, she takes the child out of my home during this visit with no clothing/shoes no child seat or booster seat, flees to a different state, doesn't file for anything in this other state, I file first, she counterclaims. A new judge has been asked to take on this case, our divorce, and to decide who gets custody. My attorney and her attorney both want to go for full custody. I have a parenting plan I want to propose in court to the Mom and her attorney before a Judge makes a decision. Basically, the proposal is I will have residential primary custody with her being the visiting parent. But the kid is at the age of pre-school and will begin kindergarten next year.

Could I perhaps request the mother move back to the home state so that her and I can share custody and both be involved in the child's life equally with the Judge signing an agreement that neither of us can move to another state without first notifying the court, or gaining consent from the other parent first, and with it being in the best interests of the child but with a parenting plan beforehand so both of us can continue to be involved in the child's life?

I really want to work things out with the mom and her attorney but I do not think she is reasonable enough to consider such a proposal. Like I said, it's all or nothing for the Mom. She wants everything, full custody, and me to not be a part of our kid's life. I've been involved in his life since his birth. I love our kid and he has relationships here and a life here too. It seems like the Mom disregarded that, abducted the kid and took the kid back to her state without filing for any kind of divorce/custody, I filed first and asked for the previous judge to grant us divorce again and bring back joint custody, that was denied. Now there's a hearing this month to temporarily decide everything.

Did the Mom commit parental child abduction? I spoke to the police before, they said they couldn't do anything without a custody order in place and that it's a civil matter but the child abduction law says it doesn't matter, one parent can't just take a child and go across state lines like that.

I just wonder what this new judge is going to do and how he is going to take all this information in. I've done nothing but be there for my kid and now I can't be because the Mom lives 2 1/2 hours away and she told me her attorney told her not to let me see the kid nor let me take him for visitation but I have never denied the kid his mother until last fall when the state and I found out where she lived, on top of that, the continuous threats being made towards me that she was going to keep the kid if I didn't wave off health benefits of him and child support.

My attorney wants ex-parte custody and with the help of law enforcement, remove the child from where the Mother is living (the new state), return him back to the home state which is where the jurisdiction lies, and to grant me temporary custody and child support. What are my chances of this happening? I still want the Mom involved, do you think it will help if I present the parenting plan in court during the hearing or tell my attorney to offer it to the Mom and her attorney?

Or will the judge be pissed because of what happened and how the Mom took the kid?

All right. Can a mod or someone please delete this entire thread? I'm not getting any kind of valuable insight on here and my court hearing is coming soon. Please and thank you.

For one thing you have to give people a chance to respond if you would like an answer. This is a volunteer site. You haven't paid a dime nor will you be asked to. So relax.

Your case is a very confusing one. Also you keep trying to drop bombs without explaining them. Example: you keep mentioning that her boyfriend was convicted but you never say of what. There is a huge difference between drunk driving and armed robbery. So if you drop a bomb like that then it needs to be explained to get a rational answer. Another thing is its time to forget about abduction. You missed the boat on that one. You lawyer sounds like an _ss. He is not serving your best interests at this time. You don't WAIT on an exparte that motion is reserved for emergency situations. Since the "emergency" has passed I don't think it would be wise to even try it. ( that's my personal opinion). As far as the custody goes you need to act like a bulldog and not like some poor victim. You need to be extremely proactive. And stop letting her walk over you. She has the upper hand at this moment because she has custody of the child. What they were trying to tell you by saying that due process wasn't followed that usually is a fancy way of saying someone wasn't served properly. Do you have ANYTHING showing your case was thrown out and for what reasons? Normally when you try for a custody change and it fails then it reverts to what it once was. SO if the denial was for due process then you should have corrected it then. Now that enough time has elapsed since she has taken the child crying abduction may not bode well for you unless she was hiding and your just catching up to her. How is it the state determined that she was to pay child support? Usually its paid to the custodial parent but by what you have said you had shared custody so there was no order of support. You really need to create a timeline for yourself in writing and match it to court records that you have and pick up all the missing pieces. Your case is a mess.

All right. Can a mod or someone please delete this entire thread? I'm not getting any kind of valuable insight on here and my court hearing is coming soon. Please and thank you.

First, we don't delete threads just because you don't feel you were getting help. As CalifDad said, you have a very complex situation and its really hard to decipher things. A lot of what you told us makes no sense in the law. But you've missed the boat on certain things by not acting proactively.

You really need a good lawyer to unravel this and it doesn't sound like you have one, because, as both Dad and I said, you don't wait a few weeks to file an ex parte.

Thanks for the responses guys. I Know you don't get paid I was just becoming impatient because the hearing is coming up and I kind of feel like I'm not getting the help I need from my attorney and feel like it might be too late to lay it all on the table.

Yeah I kind of figured I didn't have a very good attorney. I've been going off his advice. He said it is child abduction even if there are no custody orders, etc. Even IF I know the whereabouts of the child that what happened can be considered abduction depending on the judge, laws, etc. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know.

How do you guys think the Mom moving to a different state without notifying me or the court or getting approval will hold up? What will be my best thing to do for right now should I propose a parenting plan so both parents can be involved? Although I don't know how it would work with her moving so far away...

As far as a parenting plan goes have one ready but don't introduce it till you need to. Also have contingency plans in your head so you can think on the fly. As far as how it should read a lot depends on how the mother reacts. So first you need to see what is going to happen there.

Basics: You want to be custodial parent. So what your looking at is times open for the mom to have the child. Extended vacations ( easter {aka spring break}, christmas ) Then there is summer vacation ( long period ).

That is what you have to work with.

Transportation: She moved she pays. Period.

The rest is up to you and her to decide.

Yeah I kind of figured I didn't have a very good attorney. I've been going off his advice. He said it is child abduction even if there are no custody orders, etc. Even IF i know the whereabouts of the child that what happened can be considered abduction depending on the judge, laws, etc. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know.

How do you guys think the Mom moving to a different state without notifying me or the court or getting approval will hold up? What will be my best thing to do for right now should I propose a parenting plan so both parents can be involved? Although I don't know how it would work with her moving so far away...

She took the child from your custody without permission, that's abduction. The problem is you didn't move fast on it. So you lost that opportunity. You can use it to show the mom's disregard for the law, as you can use the move without permission. But all you can use them for is to prejudice her case with the judge. Judges don't like people who flout the law. You should be asking for primary custody, but you should have a parenting plan if she gets primary as Plan B. You need to prepare for and cover all eventualities.

Thanks Califdad. I asked my attorney if he knew what residential custody meant. And he goes, huh? And I literally had to explain it to him. I don't think he has a clue what he's doing in this case.

So I should pursue for full custody how can I do this if I don't get to meet with the judge or speak? I don't care if the mom has the child on shared holidays, summer breaks (half the summer). Heck I would go as far to say if the Mom's living circumstances change and she happens to move back to my home state that joint custody can be established for the betterment of our child only under the stipulation that neither one can leave the state without notifying the other parent, gaining consent or approval from the court in the best interests of the child along with a parenting plan that both of us can agree on PRIOR to leaving the state but I don't think the mom has any kind of intention of moving back here.

She left because she got booted from her parents house and never told me, I think. Then moved to another state while they covered it up by making me believe the kid lived at the same residence when he didn't. State finds out her whereabouts, they tell me where she's living, then she freaks out by planning a visit to remove the kid from my home. Do you think any of this will give me any kind of advantage during the hearing?

All I know is her attorney is using the UCCJEA to rely on stating that she's lived there for years. How can they do that if the child was shared equally and has lived in the state he was born for the longest and she never told me she ever moved? I don't think it is fair for a parent to take a kid from the other parent and then drops a bomb by saying oh I've lived here for a long time and I want full custody.

What the heck? And in my defense, you can file for support from the other parent if they have income. I'm struggling to find employment and have no income, the mom was ordered to pay child support for our kid and then does the whole taking him away from me bit and then teaching the kid to call me by my first name and withholding phone contact and physical contact with our kid.

All I know is her attorney is using the UCCJEA to rely on stating that she's lived there for years. How can they do that if the child was shared equally and has lived in the state he was born for the longest and she never told me she ever moved? I don't think it is fair for a parent to take a kid from the other parent and then drops a bomb by saying oh ive lived here for a long time and I want full custody.

What the heck? And in my defense, you can file for support from the other parent if they have income. I'm struggling to find employment and have no income, the mom was ordered to pay child support for our kid and then does the whole taking him away from me bit and then teaching the kid to call me by my first name and withholding phone contact and physical contact with our kid.

First it does not sound like you have an attorney who specializes in Family Law? Why would you retain a general purpose attorney? Family Law is a specialized practice!

Second, you need to put together your proof that the child lived with you. If her attorney is going to claim a different time line that you can prove is false that will not sit well with the court, but you need ironclad proof.

Hey Scott excellent advice I sincerely appreciate it. I am glad I requested parenting plan papers then to fill out accordingly as a backup in case it doesn't work out. The proof that I had the child is he was in my custody when child support was enforced last fall. Usually they won't enforce support unless you actually have the child with you which is what I was told...

The mom never showed up to visit or make phone calls while I basically pretty much shopped around for an affordable reputable attorney. I like my attorney, just don't know if he's the kind I need. He does have experience in family law but I had no choice at the time I needed representation and to get things filed before the Mother could.

That's when the Mom freaked and made threats in person and with random unknown calls saying she was going to keep the kid next time she got her hands on him. The months past and I notified the mom I wanted to divorce for good, there's no reason to let it drag on like this. And I wanted joint custody because I feel like a child needs both his parents, he never got a fair chance at life with Mom and Dad so IMO I keep thinking that's the best thing to do but I want to play hardball and go for the jugular right now.

I did not know what to do as far as child abduction goes. I called the police, they told me nothing can be done. Get an attorney. There is an affidavit on file that was presented to a different Judge in which he denied to bring back temp custody and divorce... So now we've been issued a new judge. The judge that signed the child support order via the state in which Mom is in default for not showing up.

I really feel helpless in this one. I did act right away soon after the abduction happened. But the police, along with various attorneys telling me otherwise, I lost hope. I really lost hope. Now I'm just praying that the judge can see through this whole thing because I have nothing but the truth and proof to support me.

The mom didn't show up for court for child support, that's why she made threats that she would not let me see the kid unless I withdrew medicaid benefits from him and child support and that if she ever got a hold of him again she would never let me see him again. So, again 2 months pass and I agree to letting the mother visit for a few hours and that's when the whole abduction took place.

I really don't know how a judge is going to perceive all of this. I wish I knew and I wish my attorney could give me some answers or scenarios on this one. He seemed really pissed off when I asked him about who truly has jurisdiction of the child, etc and about residential custody. He just said, "I have clients waiting for me, I really have to let you go."

This is going to sound really harsh. But SteveO you need to stop wishing and start being proactive in your case. You have had excellent advice from here and Scott has been saying things as well as I have and you treat it with a flippant manner. I can see how things got to where they are.

She is not going to come back to the state nor to you. Get over it. Stop with the head games. It will ruin you. If you actually want to be involved with your child then you really need to be a bulldog and straight shooter when it comes to the courts.

As evidence for the child living with you your going to claim a undefended case of child support ? Then its going to be asked why you tried to rip off the state and her by making false claims. Then what. Deer in the headlights looking at the judge??

Sound familer? I requested many posts ago that you create a timeline and match everything up. Have you done that for yourself? Do you have daycare reciepts for when the child was with you? Witnesses and their names and address or statements? Do you have all the reports from the police for all the times you have called them?

This is no game nor some kind of a joke. If you miss this one chances are your going to be a stranger to your child. You choose. But stop trying to push your victim mantra and start getting real and proactive in your own case.

Ok so should I meet with my attorney to discuss how I can go about this? Everyone in my family knows I had our kid for months while the mom never made an attempt to see him until that one day of taking him. Do they have to write letters and get them notarized? He's not in daycare since I was unemployed and stayed at home with him and took care of him.

They can write letters, but the court will probably require that they be deposed or appear as witnesses so they can be cross examined.

What's bothering me here is all these things should have been done already

I know I don't have any 'legal' knowledge. I don't know how to go about that stuff. The attorney just said let me do everything and I'll handle. When I make suggestions, it seems like he is not listening. I feel like he doesn't understand what's at stake here it's almost as if he's playing not to lose.

I know he wants a deposition from the mom and the boyfriend and he wants to hear their story because he doesn't think they have one and nor will they match up. So, I guess he is banking on one of them screwing up during the deposition.

There's about 12 people that could write letters, appear before court or get depositions as to how he lived with me for 2 months while I looked for an attorney to get divorced, etc. No one saw the mom take the kid away, but the grandfather woke up and saw the police in the house while they told us nothing could be done to get him back but go to court for it.

I do have the mom's boyfriends phone to use as evidence that they came to the home to take the kid. Should I bring that with me during the hearing? Because my attorney advised that it would probably surprise her attorney since they will want to do a deposition on me as well.

I want to be the bulldog here and lay it all on the line. What the mom did was wrong, I might have waited too long to go after her for that but I disagree. I have a strong feeling that any judge is going to be ticked off at one parent going as far as removing a kid physically from another parents home and then not allowing that parent to talk to or see the kid.

I really don't think anyone should get away with that at all and should be punishable. I do believe in my heart the judge will side with me on this. I have a timeline put together, documents, written notes that were put together a long, long time ago for each time I picked the child up, and his progression each time he went from the mom's home to my home. I think it will help a great deal. The only negative thing for me is I am struggling to find employment but I'm trying everything I can. I'm going through the dept of labor two times a week and they are helping me.

I didn't lie to get support. I told the state, I have my kid, the mom and I are separated and I am seeking divorce. They found out she didn't live in my state, ordered support and for the mom to provide medical insurance for the kid because I told them she said she is employed and has insurance but won't allow me to use any of it (not sure if I can since she lived in an opposite state). Then the mom was supposed to go to court to fight that and she never showed for it.

I thank you guys for your help. If you continue to have suggestions I'll gladly take note of them right away. I think it is a little too late but to ride the tide right now. The hearing is 2 weeks away. I've got to go in there prepared to lay it all on the line and tell the judge everything. Everything in my testimony is truth. In the end, all I really want is to be with my kid and us to have lives together. While I want the mother involved, I think it's best I come after the mom with full force and not let up at all. I need to forget parenting plans and go after her. I've filled out the parenting plan in case I fail as a backup to make me the residential custodial parent and make her responsible for all travel expenses and all traveling. So she would have to bring child from other state, to my home, and she would have to pick him up as well. I never chose this route, she did.

I agree with you to a point. There is an issue of fairness here and that issue seems to be mostly on your side. But the mistake you are making is believing that fairness and the law are one and the same. Unfortunately that's not always the case. You need to deal with what the law says, not what you think is fair.

Thank you. If it were my way, I certainly want the mom involved in the child's life as much as possible. I'd allow time with the child during summer, shared holidays, off days from school, spring vacation. I'd even allow the mother to make plans at least a week prior to a certain occasion. I'm not a jerk like that. I want my kid to have a Mother. I never had a Motherly figure and it ruined a great portion of my life. My own flesh and blood deserves more than what I got in my life. He never had a fair chance to have one family but in a perfect world, he'd have us both.

At this time, I have to lower myself to Mom's battlefield ground because it appears she wants everything and not me to be a part of our child's life. I cannot accept a one-sided deal. I have every right to be in his life. Like I said, I don't do drugs, I don't drink, I don't party. That kid is my life and everything I do is devoted to him.

Because of this, I'll stay humble but balanced with confidence, I do believe there's a chance the Judge will side with my case and make me the primary residential custody parent and make the Mom the visiting parent responsible for transportation costs.

Basically, I will have full custody, and seek child support from the Mom while she still gets to see him as much as possible. I would never deprive the kid his mother. Even the two months he was with me, I constantly encouraged the Mom to visit him and to call him. I even called her to get them to engage in conversations. I just would not allow her to ever leave state lines with him without a court ordered divorce/custody solution. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. The Mom had other plans to try and gain leverage... I think a Judge is way too smart to not realize this.

Scott you've been a great help! I'm glad I came here and gave up on all these other online places!

Keep us posted!

Here's an update: So the court hearing came up, and after a long hour or so listening to both attorneys argue, reading all affidavit's from my ex and her friends, the judge decided that my home state has custody of our kid that neither one of us has custody rights at the moment and that we will have week to week sharing of the child and we are both responsible for the transportation of the child. The ex lied in her affidavit and stated that when we had joint custody she would not only pick up our kid at my house but that she would also drop him off at my home. That was a lie.

We both picked up the kid at the other parent's home week to week. I was relieved to be allowed to see my kid again, but during the hearing she stated in her affidavit and her attorney stated that the abduction of the kid wasn't planned. That really ticked me off because her boyfriend was out hiding outside my door when it happened and he got between my son and I and got physical by shoving me to the ground. I also was upset that the judge ordered me to drive 125 miles to pick our kid up from her home because I was not the one who moved without notifying the other parent or notifying the court.

I did tell my attorney after he met with me after the hearing that she should be responsible for transportation because of this but he neglected my opinion and just said, why shouldn't you pick him up? I told him I didn't move, I wasn't the one who decided to move away 125 miles and then cover up my known address, etc. He said oh well. It didn't help that I don't have a job at the moment apparently. It didn't matter to the judge that I receive financial support from family. I am glad that I am going to be a part of my kid's life again like I have been since his birth but now I have 4 months of missed time to make up for it since the mom told me I couldn't see or talk to our kid. She stated in her affidavit that I never called to talk to my kid or get updated on his life. That's because she TOLD me I couldn't talk to him or see him until the court made a decision.

So where we stand is neither parent has custody. My state does, her state does not. We are to attend mediation and come up with a parenting plan. My attorney argued that whatever schedule parenting plan is created now will probably not work by next year when the kid has to attend kindergarten. I know when we attend mediation the mom is going to try and make me the visiting parent and give me the short end of the stick. While the cost of living is low in her state, the educational system in mine is far superior to hers. Also, the judge apparently didn't care that my kid's mom (ps me and the mom are still married) has another kid with another man living in his home state.

So my question is where do I go from here? If I had it my way, I would ask our kid's mom to move back to my home state which is where all his family members are, her family members, and mine. And also I would exercise a 50/50 shared custody plan with shared holidays, splitting the years on claiming the kid on taxes, and for us to be allowed to share the child every 2 weeks during the summer.

But because the mom chose to move out of state, I can't see that happening. Also, her moving out of state and never notifying the court or getting court approval didn't matter to this judge probably because she has lived there for 2 years but she made it seem like she lived in MY home state for those 2 years because I only drove 125 miles to pick up our kid one time and that's when I found out of her true living circumstances. While a previous court order was enforced on the mom ($50 a month child support, which is nothing, and also enforced medial insurance by the mom to cover the kid) this order will stay intact.

My attorney suggested that I drop child or support or in the least, take the money and give it to the mom. So what do you guys think would be the best way to approach this? My attorney said the judge thinks both parents are irresponsible and that he did not know who's story to believe right now and the judge also thinks one of us will not exercise his proposed week to week sharing of the child. (The mom is the one with history of having problems with picking up our child and sharing him, I have never had problems,) so mediation is going to be scheduled soon. The mom has recently split up with her boyfriend (I found out through friends who know my ex and they told me) and this was never brought up in court. These people told me that my kid's mom is probably going to move back to my home state.

I think if that happens, the mom will play these games again by making me drive 125 miles out of state to pick my child up while she actually lives in my home state and not 125 miles out of my state. I don't know what to do right now. The attorney told me he wants me and the ex to be able to cooperate with each other and be peaceful to one another but the mom is the one who plays games and tricks. It's obvious because she moved so far away without telling the court or myself. We were peaceful when there was a 50/50 joint and legal physical custody order in my home state and things went well. We constantly spoke about the child and things were great! It wasn't until the mom became selfish with her boyfriend that she now has another kid with and undermined me as a parent to our son and moved 125 miles away to which I am now made responsible to pick our child up there.

What should I do now? Go to mediation and see what happens? Or do you think it would be wise for me to come up with my own parenting plan that would make me the residential custodian (responsible for medical, school, religion, etc, and that MY state is where he lives) and make the mom the visiting parent but give her as much time as possible with our kid as if it were almost joint custody? What do you think?

Thanks.

My attorney said the judge thinks both parents are irresponsible and that he did not know who's story to believe right now.

Your whole post boils down to that statement! You said she lied, but do you have proof? Can you prove the lies? Obviously not, since the judge couldn't see who was lying.

So what you do, is try to assemble proof while you try mediation. You need to document EVERYTHING that happens. Tell the mother you will be recording all calls between you, Save all e-mails, etc.

Thanks for the reply Scott!

Well I have proof I picked the child up at her home for the past 3 years because there's 6 family members who could write short affidavit's or give depositions that they were with ME when we picked up our kid at her home in my home state when she claims she lived in another state for the past 2 years. They actually rode down with me to pick up our son at her assumed locations in my home state. The one time where I drove to her new home state 125 miles to pick the child up, his uncle was with me. He too can give a deposition or swear under oath that he picked the kid up there with me ONE time.

I am going to pick up a journal to document everything that happens from now on. I had proof that my wife (my son's mother) and her boyfriend staged an abduction to take the kid from my home. She even STATED in her silly affidavit that "it was time to get my son back" an attorney told me to do it. And I have her boyfriend's CELL PHONE in my possession that he left behind after attacking me. Apparently that didn't even matter to the judge because he never asked to see it. No one did.

The cell phone was probably inadmissible. But its up to your attorney to make sure the judge sees your other evidence. Maybe that evidence was not admissible. You have to ask your attorney about that.

Scott, thanks for your reply. Another question, what will happen if the Mom and I can't agree with each other for a parenting plan during mediation? I'm willing to make her the visiting parent for moving out of state while giving her so much time with the kid. I also believe I shouldn't be responsible for transportation and the costs therein. I really, really believe the mom wants the child to only hurt me. Our kid is really close to me and attached to me and that pisses the mom off very much. I want our kid to have both of us in our lives and I'm willing to give the mom so much more than she expects if I can be the one in control of health/medical decisions, religion, education, etc.

For one thing don't spend too much time dwelling on the past and concentrate on the here and now. Telling us you have relatives the could write statements shows that you weren't prepared for a fight. You should have already had that if it was important. Another thing is you mentioned still being married?? " (ps me and the mom are still married) ".

You could be responsible for the child she had with the boyfriend. Being married could make you the legal father of the child. Yet another piece you have on your plate.

Start by making out a parenting plan. Don't assume she is going to agree to anything. Your up against a wall now because there is a sibling involved and courts don't like to keep siblings from each other. Your fight just got tougher. Make sure your prepared to answer any questions that may come out. Mediation isn't about rehashing the past its about the child and the child's future. Focus focus focus. And the next time you head to court go in loaded for bear and make sure all your I's are dotted and your T's are crossed. Have everything ready.

Thanks for coming back and keeping us updated.

For one thing dont spend too much time dwelling on the past and concentrate on the here and now. Telling us you have relatives the could write statements shows that you werent prepared for a fight. You should have already had that if it was important. Another thing is you mentioned still being married??? " (ps me and the mom are still married) ".

You could be responsible for the child she had with the boyfriend. Being married could make you the legal father of the child. Yet another piece you have on your plate.

Start by making out a parenting plan. Don't assume she is going to agree to anything. Your up against a wall now because there is a sibling involved and courts dont like to keep siblings from eachother. Your fight just got tougher. Make sure your prepared to answer any questions that may come out. Mediation isnt about rehashing the past its about the child and the childs future. Focus focus focus. And the next time you head to court go in loaded for bear and make sure all your I's are dotted and your T's are crossed. Have everything ready.

Thanks for coming back and keeping us updated.

Hey califdad, thanks for your reply too. I owed it to the forum and you guys for helping out by updating the thread.

The mom stated in her affidavit that she has another child, with another man in another state. That was brought up to the judge's attention and apparently it didn't matter because there was no comment on that. I could be the legal father but that other child is over a year old so I'm not sure if I'm legally attached to that other kid or not. I understand my son has a sibling but I fail to realize where I'm up against a wall? I didn't get involved in an affair and impregnate another woman and if I did, I'm sure I would probably be made out to be a horrible parent for doing that.

So I will come up with a scheduled parenting plan that's fair for the mom but I do want to be residential custodian from here on out. Would it be wise to bring this scheduled parenting plan of mine and issue it to the mediator? I don't want the mom to be allowed to continuously move our child from one place to the next and to different jurisdictions either. Do you think I could possibly convince the mom to move back to her home state, my home state, and our kid's home state to make things easier for our son and for ourselves? I mean, after all, she did split up with her boyfriend right now. Let's say she does move back, does she have to notify her attorney/my attorney or the court?

If in fact I am the legal father of this other child, do I not have rights to him versus her boyfriend? I'm sure if I fought that, I would lose because I have not once supported this other child and he has lived with her and her boyfriend in another state for 2 years so that state obviously would have jurisdiction over this other child.

Thanks again.

Hey califdad, thanks for your reply too. I owed it to the forum and you guys for helping out by updating the thread.

The mom stated in her affidavit that she has another child, with another man in another state. That was brought up to the judge's attention and apparently it didn't matter because there was no comment on that. I could be the legal father but that other child is over a year old so I'm not sure if I'm legally attached to that other kid or not. I understand my son has a sibling but I fail to realize where I'm up against a wall? I didn't get involved in an affair and impregnate another woman and if I did, I'm sure I would probably be made out to be a horrible parent for doing that.

So I will come up with a scheduled parenting plan that's fair for the mom but I do want to be residential custodian from here on out. Would it be wise to bring this scheduled parenting plan of mine and issue it to the mediator? I don't want the mom to be allowed to continuously move our child from one place to the next and to different jurisdictions either. Do you think I could possibly convince the mom to move back to her home state, my home state, and our kid's home state to make things easier for our son and for ourselves? I mean, after all, she did split up with her boyfriend right now. Let's say she does move back, does she have to notify her attorney/my attorney or the court?

If in fact I am the legal father of this other child, do I not have rights to him versus her boyfriend? I'm sure if I fought that, I would lose because I have not once supported this other child and he has lived with her and her boyfriend in another state for 2 years so that state obviously would have jurisdiction over this other child.

Thanks again.

One step at a time. Going to see a mediator IS the point of developing a parenting plan. Its through mediation that its going to happen and if it fails the mediator may be allowed to make recommendations as to a plan and that is what the judge will go with. That is why you need to have it already made out and in your head line for line so you know where you stand going into it. As far as convincing the mother to do anything.. forget about it. That is not the purpose of mediation and its something you shouldn't discuss with her at this time. The reason being is it could be harassment on your part. At least in the courts eyes. So focus on the child and that's it at this time. No complaining about the past etc. Keep questions to her open ended so it leaves her room to express and for you to find out what's going on. Use words like I think or I believe and have ways ob backing it up. No yelling or screaming or making faces etc. When its your turn to speak, Speak. When your turn to listen listen intently.
When it comes to being the legal father of the child it makes no difference the bio father isn't you. What's important to the law is that there is a legal father. So at some point your going to have to deal with that issue. Like after the custody is settled. The reason being is the longer you wait the more you could be on the hook for. And that is why your against the wall at this time. Splitting of siblings isn't something the courts want to do if it can be avoided. That's why your walking a tight rope until your hearing.

Califdad, I think it makes a difference that mom and I shared 50/50 custody of our son before and it worked well. Since we are still married, I don't see how her becoming pregnant with another man is a good thing in the eyes of court. Sure, my son has a sibling but I'm not going for sole custody of my kid. I want to be fair and make sure both the mom and our kid have a steady relationship but I don't want to be held responsible for transportation because I didn't move out of state. Why should I be held liable for that? That confuses me to no end. I'm still going to come up with a parenting plan to make me residential custodian and make the mom the visiting parent because when our kid turns kindergarten age next year, no parenting plan will work unless one of us is residential custodian and because she took him out of his home state where jurisdiction is being held for our child, I think I should be awarded residential custodian... Just because she's called the visiting parent doesn't mean she won't get time with our child and I believe the mom will have a hard time seeing that.. I'll give her time and want her involved in our child's life as much as possible. Will this subject even be talked about during mediation? What can I expect from the mediator are there any general questions or things they do at the start? I mean, I can see all the angles both sides can take when it comes to our child, the distance, time spent with the parent's, etc. I hope the mediator does not shaft either of us and favor one parent over the other (I know it's said that mediators shouldn't do this or that they don't to it but, it does happen.) I really want to push for residential custody when it's mediation time because our kid is one year from kindergarten. I want to present my parenting plan. Keep in mind, the mom lives out of state 125 miles away.

I want to be able to be the primary residential parent/custodian. I don't know if the mediator will consider that or not but that's what I want.

Here's my proposed standard parenting plan:

Standard Visitation Schedule
a. Schedule. The husband shall be the primary custodian and shall maintain the primary residence for the children, and the wife shall be the secondary custodian and shall maintain the secondary residence for the children.

The secondary custodian's custodial periods (Mom) shall be as follows:

The first and third weekends of each month from 6 p.m. on Friday until 6 p.m. the following Sunday. The first weekend shall begin on the first Friday of each month at 6 p.m.;
Each Christmas Day from 3 p.m. until 3 p.m. on the following New Year's Day;
Thirty-one days during the summer (to be taken between June 10 and August 15) to be selected by the non-custodial parent, but upon written notice to the custodial parent at least 30 days in advance of such visitation.
During the odd years, spring break vacation from 9 a.m. Saturday until the following Friday at 6 p.m.;
During the even years, Thanksgiving vacation from Wednesday at 6 p.m. until Sunday 6 p.m.;
Every other birthday of the child from 6 p.m. on said date until 8 a.m. the following morning;
Every Father/Mother's Day from 9 a.m. until 6 p.m. of the same day;
On the birthday of the mother/father from 3 p.m. on said date until 8 p.m. of the same day;
Any other reasonable times and places upon which the parties can agree; and
Each party shall keep the other informed on a current basis as to the primary residence, address and telephone number where the children reside or visit.
b. Activities of the minor children. Both the husband and wife desire to be involved in the various activities of their minor children. These include academic religious, civic (such as Scouts or other civic-related organizations or community projects), cultural (such as music, theater, and the like), athletic, purchase of clothing, and medical and dental activities of the children. The husband and wife agree to cooperate with the other in adjusting their schedules to assure that the children are delivered to and returned from any such activity. It is further agreed and understood that both parties will notify one another of all conferences, programs, or events relating to such activities in such a way that both parties will have an opportunity to participate in such activities of the children.

Should the husband and wife be unable to agree on any aspect of the academic, religious, civic, cultural, athletic, or medical and dental activities of the children, the following party is hereby designated as having the primary authority and responsibility regarding involvement in said activity (Me, the Father.)

As for travel, the court/judge obviously think both of us should be held responsible. I feel I got shafted on that subject and feel like there's nothing I can do but a.) meet the kid's mom halfway or b.) deal with it. When it's time for our kid to go to schooling full-time next year, any other parenting plan will NOT work. That's a fact that both of our attorneys have pointed out.

Also, should I modify my proposed parenting plan as a temporary plan (i.e. instead of weekends, do weeks for the mom; until schooling begins next year? Then alter the scheduled parenting plan for the mom to pick up the child on weekends during the school year?)

What do you think of this?

Califdad, i think it makes a difference that mom and I shared 50/50 custody of our son before and it worked well. Since we are still married, I don't see how her becoming pregnant with another man is a good thing in the eyes of court. Sure, my son has a sibling but I'm not going for sole custody of my kid. I want to be fair and make sure both the mom and our kid have a steady relationship but I don't want to be held responsible for transportation because I didn't move out of state. Why should I be held liable for that?? That confuses me to no end. I'm still going to come up with a parenting plan to make me residential custodian and make the mom the visiting parent because when our kid turns kindergarten age next year, no parenting plan will work unless one of us is residential custodian and because she took him out of his home state where jurisdiction is being held for our child, I think I should be awarded residential custodian... Just because she's called the visiting parent doesn't mean she won't get time with our child and I believe the mom will have a hard time seeing that.. I'll give her time and want her involved in our child's life as much as possible. Will this subject even be talked about during mediation? What can I expect from the mediator are there any general questions or things they do at the start? I mean, I can see all the angles both sides can take when it comes to our child, the distance, time spent with the parent's, etc. I hope the mediator does not shaft either of us and favor one parent over the other (i know it's said that mediators shouldn't do this or that they don't to it but, it does happen.) I really want to push for residential custody when it's mediation time because our kid is one year from kindergarten. I want to present my parenting plan. Keep in mind, the mom lives out of state 125 miles away.

I want to be able to be the primary residential parent/custodian. I don't know if the mediator will consider that or not but that's what I want.

Here's my proposed standard parenting plan:

Standard Visitation Schedule
a. Schedule. The husband shall be the primary custodian and shall maintain the primary residence for the children, and the wife shall be the secondary custodian and shall maintain the secondary residence for the children.

The secondary custodian’s custodial periods (Mom) shall be as follows:

The first and third weekends of each month from 6 p.m. on Friday until 6 p.m. the following Sunday. The first weekend shall begin on the first Friday of each month at 6 p.m.;
Each Christmas Day from 3 p.m. until 3 p.m. on the following New Year’s Day;
Thirty-one days during the summer (to be taken between June 10 and August 15) to be selected by the non-custodial parent, but upon written notice to the custodial parent at least 30 days in advance of such visitation.
During the odd years, spring break vacation from 9 a.m. Saturday until the following Friday at 6 p.m.;
During the even years, Thanksgiving vacation from Wednesday at 6 p.m. until Sunday 6 p.m.;
Every other birthday of the child from 6 p.m. on said date until 8 a.m. the following morning;
Every Father/Mother’s Day from 9 a.m. until 6 p.m. of the same day;
On the birthday of the mother/father from 3 p.m. on said date until 8 p.m. of the same day;
Any other reasonable times and places upon which the parties can agree; and
Each party shall keep the other informed on a current basis as to the primary residence, address and telephone number where the children reside or visit.
b. Activities of the minor children. Both the husband and wife desire to be involved in the various activities of their minor children. These include academic religious, civic (such as Scouts or other civic-related organizations or community projects), cultural (such as music, theater, and the like), athletic, purchase of clothing, and medical and dental activities of the children. The husband and wife agree to cooperate with the other in adjusting their schedules to assure that the children are delivered to and returned from any such activity. It is further agreed and understood that both parties will notify one another of all conferences, programs, or events relating to such activities in such a way that both parties will have an opportunity to participate in such activities of the children.

Should the husband and wife be unable to agree on any aspect of the academic, religious, civic, cultural, athletic, or medical and dental activities of the children, the following party is hereby designated as having the primary authority and responsibility regarding involvement in said activity (Me, the Father.)

As for travel, the court/judge obviously think both of us should be held responsible. I feel I got shafted on that subject and feel like there's nothing I can do but a.) meet the kid's mom halfway or b.) deal with it. When it's time for our kid to go to schooling full-time next year, any other parenting plan will NOT work. That's a fact that both of our attorneys have pointed out.

Also, should I modify my proposed parenting plan as a temporary plan (i.e. instead of weekends, do weeks for the mom; until schooling begins next year? then alter the scheduled parenting plan for the mom to pick up the child on weekends during the school year?)

What do you think of this?

Keeping in mind the mother and you are 125 miles apart you have to be careful on the strictness of times. For most working persons it may be unreasonable for the child to be picked up by 6 if they have to work a full day and then drive 125 miles. You need to remain flexable on that point and also make sure you are open to it. Its better for you to use the words custodial and non custodial rather then husband and wife. Also as far as activities are concerned lets face it with that distance keeping anything on track just isn't in reality. Also expect resistance from her on a major level because if she is the non custodial parent then she will most likely end up paying child support. Something she absolutlely wants to avoid.

The main concerns are the here and now and keeping it real. You may be asked questions like "how would you handle that?". You need to have solid answers. If there is something that the both of you can't agree on then see if binding arbitration is offered in your area to clear things up or mediation. Try not to sound like a bully as far as my way or the highway. You just need to keep your goals in mind. Do research on your school and have it in your head. Go to it and interview to find out class sizes etc. That way when asked your prepared to answer with confidence. Don't sweat too much of the small stuff and be prepared for what your willing to settle with. If you're the custodial parent then work from that angle. Also be prepared to answer food color and friends of your child in case it crops up. Be prepared. Have babysitter information handy and be ready with it if needed. Also try to get a job BEFORE your next court appearance.

So, if I do fill out a parenting plan (I have the forms from my attorney), should I list in it that I seek residential custody and should I prepare that PRIOR to mediation?

P.S. what exactly is binding arbitration? What exactly would I need an arbitrator for? I believe it is offered in my state... Could you clear that up for me and is it the same or is that opposite of a mediator? Would I use the arbitrator about the dispute over the distance/his future education and the fact that a joint custody parenting plan with her being out of state won't work once school begins for our child?

Thanks so much!

Im not sure on the exact workings of mediation in your area. But if you are suppose to fill it out beforehand then by all means do so. When I went through it it was from the head. But you had a goal and the paper was for the specifics. This may be in expectation of what your desires are. You don't have to prove yourself on here and quite frankly Id rather you didn't because you could be discovered by the opposing party and then they have a line in to your thinking process.

Im just throwing out ideas for you to consider that can help you get your point across and to sound resolute in your caus. That is why you need all the information and to be totally prepared as you move forward through this. It will not only show your concern for your child but also show you can handle things. Doctors names and records should be in your head when you go into this. Cover all your bases and try not to get nervous or upset. Nothing is as it seems until it is in writing. Just be prepared.

Im not sure on the exact workings of mediation in your area. But if you are suppose to fill it out beforehand then by all means do so. When I went through it it was from the head. But you had a goal and the paper was for the specifics. This may be in expectation of what your desires are. You dont have to prove yourself on here and quite frankly Id rather you didnt because you could be discovered by the opposing party and then they have a line in to your thinking process.

Im just throwing out ideas for you to consider that can help you get your point across and to sound resolute in your caus. That is why you need all the information and to be totally prepared as you move forward through this. It will not only show your concern for your child but also show you can handle things. Doctors names and records should be in your head when you go into this. Cover all your bases and try not to get nervous or upset. Nothing is as it seems until it is in writing. Just be prepared.

Thanks califdad, I appreciate the ideas. They do help. I think the difference between mediator/arbitrator is pretty much an arbitrator can make a final decision, mediator's can't. I learned an arbitrator is kind of like a judge/jury for both the parents while they present the facts to the dispute. Now, I don't know if I should go that route and quite frankly, I think the chances the ex will go for it are quite slim unless it is ordered by the court. I think coming up with a temporary parenting plan might be the best way to go and then have it altered once the child begins school and state my reasons (which I removed from my previous post so the thread isn't too revealing.)

Well, mediation is supposed to begin soon so I might come back with an update then!

Also one last question. I have thought about requesting a GAL if neither of us can agree on a parenting plan/schedule. Would both parents have to agree to it or would I just have to request that to the judge to approve and/or appoint a GAL?

The arbitration was for settling future disputes not for this current custody battle your going through. It reads better then just proclaiming you make the decision. I think you get my drift on that.

The arbitration was for settling future disputes not for this current custody battle your going through. It reads better then just proclaiming you make the decision. I think you get my drift on that.

Ok I got it now. I'm assuming in order to go for arbitration or get an arbitrator I would have to go through my attorney to request one? I mean that's really the main dispute here is the child's age, next year will be kindergarten, the distance/mileage between, one state has jurisdiction (mine) while the other does not.

The decision should be relatively simple here while I give the other parent as much time as possible to be with the child. That's pretty much where I stand at the moment. The other parent argues that the child is going to start preschool soon but was completely unknown to me and was never brought to my attention either. IMO it's kindergarten and beyond where the real education will begin and become a problem with the distance and any proposed scheduled parenting plan will become a problem without a primary residential custodian, you know what I mean?

Does the mediator even discuss custody titles such as residential, primary, etc? I'm totally assuming yes but don't want to be surprised so that's why I ask here...

Thank you.

No. Its for after the dust settles. Like you both are making a decision for the child and you can't seem to agree. Is it baseball of karate? Those sort of things. Or for deciding a babysitter for the child. Its for those times when you wanted absolute authority in your parenting plan. But you need to make the effort first and the arbitration is your last line so it can end without court or lawyers.

To answer your other question on the mediator yes that is what you will be discussing. Custodial and non custodial positions. As far as legal custody goes its shared 50/50. Its just the physical your worried about and the wording for it would be the custodial one.

So had my first mediation appt. the mediator stated that our court system generally won't like the idea of joint custody because of the distance and transporting the child in and out of state. The mother wants sole physical custody... I'm willing to do both joint physical and joint legal (so we both decide on health care, etc.) with me being the residential parent (primary residence for the child) and for educational purposes so he goes to school here since the school system is much much larger here so more schools to choose from (there's only like 4 or 5 elementary schools in the mother's state) and I will also give the mom ample visitation time (basically a lot of holidays, more than half the summer, days off from school, snow days, spring break , the ability to pick him up if he's in day care if she has a day off from work, etc.) will it make me look bad for wanting mom to be involved? I know she is stubborn and wants sole custody of our child and with me seeing him every other weekend which is not what I want... so I do not see mediation working out. Our mediator wants to solve this within 3 sessions. I see our case being litigated... your guys' thoughts? Should I just go for sole physical or stick to my plan? And how will the mom moving out of state look to the mediator since she created the distance and then kept the child from me for more than 3 months? Also, I've been unemployed for 3 years and have done nothing but take care of our child each day I've been with him.. so to be technical, I've spent a lot more time with our child than his mother but still continue looking for employment... thanks.

Just be sure to get your points across and that is really all you can do. Your willingness to involve the mother is fine just don't overdo it. You also need to mention somehow in the conversations that you were primary caretaker of the child before she left. Above all stick to your guns and if it goes to the judge accept whatever happens without a fuss. If it doesn't work out there is always more chances to change it later.

Sounds like a plan but what exactly would be the difference with sole physical vs. joint physical (with me being residential custodian)? Or is being the residential custodian the same thing as having sole custody? It is true I have been the primary caretaker of our child since birth and for the past 3 years have been like a Mr. Mom to our child. I can go on and on about what I've done but no need to put that here.

If mediation does not work out since it is required by law before the case can become litigated, approx how long will it take before it actually goes to court/trial? Will the fact that the mom is already paying child support become any kind of factor? What about parental alienation? Child calling me by first name telling me he hates me and doesn't like me when I pick him up? Family members seeing the child terribly dirty, and I mean as if he hadn't been cleaned in a few days... really disgusting ears, dirty socks with holes with food stains, dirty shirt/pants, and smelt bad. He has always looked extremely dirty when picking him up.

Sole custody usually indicates low or no visitation for the NCP. Joint implies some kind of sharing or split. Lets say 80/20 etc. Joint legal custody would be both parties share equally in making decisions for the child like medical and babysitters or schools.
Depending how your state defines it usually most cases are 50/50 joint legal custody and then some kind of split on physical custody. Which seems to be the direction your wanting to go in.

yeah I believe it's best for both parents to be involved but a 50/50 shared plan might not work because of the distance... so am I in the right for wanting joint physical with me being residential parent for school, etc and giving the mom visitation on weekends, spring break, snow days, days off from school, any day off she has from work to spend time with him, also summer visitation? I'm just cautious because of the mediator saying joint won't be looked on favorably because of the distance so I don't want to settle on something that's not fair for our child since she has really no reason for sole custody other than she says our child needs "stability, structure, continuity" but I argue and say shacking up with a random guy and moving to his hometown isn't exactly the stability and structure our child needs and that it wasn't in his best interest for her to move with him and make time with me and our child difficult then she kept him from me for months until the court butted in...

This is long and for the experts here, I ask you guys to please read carefully -- So, here's an update: We finally have our first mediation session very soon. I recently just found a full-time job. I love it. The hours are great 6:45 AM to 3:30 PM Monday through Friday. So if my son was in school right now, my school down the street offers morning day care starting at 5:30 AM and he can be picked up by his uncle or grandpa after school or he can stay in the after school day care until I pick him up from work. Right now, the weeks that I have our son, he is with both his uncle and grandpa at my home. His grandpa gets off Monday morning and is off work Monday night, Tuesday night. The grandpa watches our son when he gets home from work in the morning from 6:00 AM to about 9:00 AM then the uncle watches him at home until I come home from work. This has gone great so far.

Our son will not be going to elementary school until next fall when he is 5 years old. The mom and I have been doing week to week sharing of the child via court order. I have picked up my son nearly 3 hours away every other week by myself, the mom has someone else drive for her. She has still for 4 years never picked up our boy by herself. This last week, I took pictures and wrote down in a journal because our son had bad sun burns on his back, and has cuts/gashes on his mid section, legs, bruises, and a new scar on his forehead. I've been writing down what I have been doing with him each day. I've also documented that our son asks me the same question again and again, "Are you the real daddy?" I am fully convinced that his mother is brain washing our child. She has a history of boyfriends and forcing our son to call them his Daddy when I have been actively involved in our son's life since his birth and have seen him on an equal basis with the Mom. The mom moved out of state without telling anyone. Her attorney sent out interrogatories to me to fill out. His mom got the same from my attorney. My attorney wants depositions from about 7 family members. Each family member at one point or another during the past 2 years that the mom says she has lived in this other state -- these family members went with me to pick up our son BUT never did we go out of state. It was in my home state at a specific address while the mom was secretly living elsewhere. The mom and her attorney do not realize that I have a wonderful job. My hours are more favorable to our son than the mom who works a 2-10 PM rotating schedule and leaves our son with her boyfriend. Our son has said that his Mom's boyfriend (won't say his name) he says he spanks him with his belt. Now, I don't approve of that and am going to bring it up in mediation. I am also going to bring up that it is wrong to force our son to call someone else Daddy while our son is constantly asking me, "Are you the real Daddy?" It has to end.

Now it is down to mediation. I have paid all my fee's. The mediator has sent the paperwork from an intake interview 5 or 6 times by e-mail because she is doing a long distance type of intake interview since she cannot be here physically. She has still not responded. Our session is coming soon and they have yet to hear back from her.

I spoke to the mediator, and said instead of filling out paperwork on what I want, I'd rather speak about it in person during mediation.

Basically, I would like for us to continue week to week until the child has to go to school next fall. There are about 12 times the amount of elementary schools in my state versus this other state the mom lives in. The school system is far superior compared to this other state. The mom has a history of instability, moving without notice. She has moved 3 times in the past 4 years while I have maintained our son in the same living area his whole life. The mom performed a kidnapping situation along with her boyfriend and retained our son for a period of 5 months without letting me see him and with little phone contact.

I am going to bring that up in mediation and ask that mandatory phone contact be made for both parents. I am also going to ask that both parents share a portion of the holidays during reasonable hours. And next summer, since the mom lives so far away, instead of doing week to week, I 'm thinking every two weeks would be better instead of doing the whole one parent gets him for the whole summer or half the summer. I don't care what anyone says, a child cannot go that long without one parent.

When the child does start school, I am keeping the door open. The mom can pick him up during a day off and spend time with him when she is in my home town. Considering the fact that all his family members on her side live in my home state. If the mom is unable to pick him up but is getting off work early or is anticipating the next day off, I would let an immediate family member of hers be allowed to pick him up for the night but return him at a reasonable hour but not take him out of state. So the child would be returned no later than 8 PM.

I would also be OK with the mom picking the child up from snow days and spending time with him. I would like for his winter breaks to be split between us both. The mom can have the child during spring break each year, mother's day, but major holidays will be split.

In the end, I think joint-legal custody will be good, along with joint-physical custody with me being the residential parent. So, it won't be 50/50 but the Mom will still be able to see him as much as possible.

The mom however wants sole physical and sole legal custody. This is where I have a problem with that. Before finding this new job, I spent the past 4 years taking care of our son 24/7 two weeks out of each month emotionally and physically. I changed diapers, cooked breakfast, lunch, dinner. Read books to him, potty trained him (the mom helped but it was me who really encouraged our son to do it and he started doing it full-time when he was at my home.) The mom has a history of not watching our son real well. He has fallen down stairs multiple times and has sustained cuts, marks, scrapes, bruises. Though I have not gone after the mom through CPS or the authorities, I felt it was best to speak to her personally about my concerns. The mom continues to refuse to acknowledge my concerns and also continues to undermine me as a parent. She has a history of trying to phase me out but unsuccessful at that.

I would like for our child to have stability, continuity, structure which he has gotten with me during the past 4 years. Every person I have ever been around with our son has said the same thing. He's a wonderful kid and behaves unbelievably. This is because I teach him not to be angry, not to fight, to be polite with people, to say thank you all the time, to say please, your welcome. He behaves real well with me. But each time he is with his mom, that's when his mindset changes. His attitude goes off the charts, he's out of control. He says things like: Shut up. I hate you. Leave me alone. Your not my Daddy. I'm not yours!

This breaks my heart and I feel like I either need to request to have a psychological evaluation on our son. Maybe even on the mom and myself. I am convinced the mom is brain washing our boy in a negative way because when she retained him in another state, he was calling me by my first name every time. Also, every time he is at my home he's saying he doesn't want to leave. And I encourage him that he lives with his mother too and he still says he wants to stay. When his mom arrives to pick him up, he gets upset about it and isn't too thrilled to leave. I continue to try to encourage him that he lives with both his mom and dad.

Things are different when I pick him up. He runs out her door for me hugs me with a huge smile, says he's ready to go. He puts his shoes on and wants to go. It's obvious he is emotionally attached to me. The mom wants to change that maybe because she feels my relationship with our son is strong (which it is) and that she feels like she wants more control. That's not what's best for a 4 year old. I do not shower our son with gifts like she does, I do not brain wash him. I tell him both his mommy and daddy love him the same. I do not use our son against his mother. I never have. I have never met a random woman and forced him to call her mommy nor would I shack up with her in another state.

So, what do you guys think of this whole thing now?

Quite frankly I find your last update disturbing. You really need to try to settle things. And in this case you should be asking for full custody and stop with the game playing. She's not with you anymore so get over it. If any man would have hit my child with a belt Id be the one in jail and they would have been buried. That's child abuse plain and simple. You say your finding evidence of it and yet your doing nothing about it? That too is neglegence. If the mom can't handle the child in a proper manner then you need to step up to the plate. Stop being so soft. Its your sons life we are talking about. Also ask for restraining orders. If you go in there with this attitude there is no telling what is going to happen but it will be looked at as acceptable. And if your child is being abused the courts may take him away from both of you. Is that what you really want? If not you need to put up a good fight and that's for your child. A 3 hour trip in one direction is a very long ride. 50/50 doesn't work in that situation. You need to do something proactive or your going to lose your child. Im not suggesting killing anyone either. But what your describing is abuse. Plain and simple.

I am new to this and, quite frankly, don't have the time to read through all of it - partially because Califdad knows his stuff and doesn't need me to follow him around, agreeing with him.

BUT I will agree with him now - your child is possibly being physically abused and you are concerned with everything BUT that abuse.

I'd worry less about custody and more about the safety of my child. At this moment I find both parents (one of them being you) to be neglectful.

What are you waiting for? How bad does the abuse have to be (now it's bruises and PERMANENT scars) before you make your move?

A lot of your post was unnecessary repetition of what you have previously posted. So I just skimmed through it. But I agree with CalifDad here. This disturbs me:

"This last week, I took pictures and wrote down in a journal because our son had bad sun burns on his back, and has cuts/gashes on his mid section, legs, bruises, and a new scar on his forehead."

In your situation I would have taken the child DIRECTLY to a doctor or emergency room. I would have asked the physician to contact Family services. I would have asked Family Services to issue a order giving you temporary custody until the cause of the injuries could be investigated.

And this is not different from what we have been telling you all along. You keep pussyfooting around here. Its great you now have a job that will enable you to give your son more stability. SO FIGHT FOR IT!!

UPDATE:

The burns weren't that bad they went away over the next few days under my care and supervision. I spoke to the mom about his hygiene and we will see if that changes. We had mediation the other day. Due to the mom's living circumstances she is doing "long distance" mediation. So, basically she was on speaker phone the entire time while I was physically present.

Does that even make a difference in terms of the court? She is completely assuming she should be awarded sole custody of our son without any solid backbone as to why. She just says structure, stability, etc because she has "two cars, a house, a job." Well, she doesn't own two cars she owns one which is her boyfriends. She rents a house with her boyfriend. A lot of times during the mediation, his Mother went dead silent and did not know what to say because she found out I have a day job. We came up with a parenting plan as far as holidays and special days, vacation, all that stuff (and whenever our son is in school) but the core issues remain and that's physical custody, residency, etc.

The mediator asked what we wanted as far as legal custody. His mom didn't know what to say when he asked her first so he asked me. I said joint legal because both of us have been involved in his life since day one and it's only fair we be involved with doctor appointments, medical bills, his education (parent teacher conferences), the list goes on. A lot of her answers were "yep... Um, yeah, sure. Yeah um that works." Instead of her focusing on our son, she just kept trying to make me look bad in front of the mediator to which our mediator put his hands over his eyes whenever she tried to say bad things about me.

He asked her what she wanted she said I want him during the school year with (me) having visitation. My response was, I disagree and have a problem with that. Both of us have been involved with the child since his birth. And for the past 3 years while I was unemployed I took care of our son emotionally and physically more than anyone else and that his mom took it upon herself to create this distance with our child without ever notifying me or anyone else. I kept reiterating that because of my involvement with our son and my current work schedule (M-F job day time shift) that because our son will be going into kindergarten starting next fall, it would be in his best interest to remain in his home state where his family on her side and my side ALL live. She has no family members in her move away state. I voiced my concerns with the mediator that shacking up with a random guy while you're still married and moving to his hometown is not the kind of stability or structure our son needs and that our son has significant relationships with family members in his home state (my home state) that the distance is beginning to take a toll on our child emotionally.

I voiced my concern on the fact that while she works, her boyfriend watches him. I do not know the guy personally but I do know he drinks a lot and has anger issues.

I explained that when our son is with me during the week and I work in the morning till afternoon that he is being taken care of by his grandfather and uncle two people that have been a part of his life and have helped support him as well.

I continued on about my job and how much I enjoy it and that I spend so much time with our son when I get off work it is ridiculous. I get off work early between 2:30 and 4PM but average out at 3:30 so I get to spend the whole evening with him, tuck him into bed, read to him. The mother cannot do this because she works a late night shift (2-10 PM) I checked out my state's school system versus his mother's and my city has about 50 elementary schools (my town itself has about 20-25) as opposed to about 4 in her entire city. A school close to me has before and after school daycare starting at 5:30 AM and ending at 5:30 PM. I told the mediator that our son can go to morning day care before I go to work and that I can pick him up every day. I also said that I would be okay with the mom or a family member of hers pick up our son after school to spend the evening with him if she's in town which is often because all her family members live in my hometown (which is also her hometown, and our son's hometown) but she of course denied it and said that she's rarely ever in her hometown.

I was co-operative as far as winter breaks went and spring breaks. I went with a fair approach. I also disagreed that one parent have our son for the entire summer. Explained to her and the mediator that it would be in our son's best interest for us to go to a every 2 weeks during the summer because a whole summer without seeing the other parent is just too long for a 4 year old.

And as far as activities go (sports/recreation) the mediator went into all the details before he let me voice my opinion and what I said was due to the distance involved and the time it takes to travel to pick up the child, it would be difficult for either parent to successfully exercise their involvement with our son's activities. (I said that because I want to keep throwing the distance thing out there. Again, I didn't create the move away.)

Anyway... I felt the mediator did well, but from my own opinion, I kind of felt like he was a little bias towards me. I don't know if that's because he used to be a lawyer and has handled these types of cases (and he said he has) or because the mom won't even have the courtesy or attempt to be physically present for the session(s).

The mediator will be submitting our parenting plan to both our attorneys with the core issues remaining unresolved (physical custody/residency) which the mediator explained that a judge will make that decision.

So, how do you think a judge may look on all this? I have transportation, I've picked our son up every week since it was court ordered, I got a full-time good paying job with an excellent schedule (early morning day shift an example is 7 AM to 4 PM Monday through Friday.) and my work is not even 10 minutes from my home when our son is at my home.

I don't feel anything was resolved in mediation. The mom and I could have easily drawn this up ourselves and saved each other a couple hundred dollars. Instead now she wants to rely on a judge and pay out of her butt for court costs because she believes in the "old system/old way of things" where the mother is expected to win custody.

My attorney wants to call on all my family members as witnesses because they rode with me to pick our son up from her supposed home (in my home state for the past few years) to which she claims that she lived elsewhere in a different state. He is also going to call on our son's grandmother (her mom) as a witness because she knew that she lived in another state.

I have a hard time seeing how his mom will be awarded sole custody.

- She moved away from me without telling me or anyone and created the distance

- She came to my house and took the child away with the help of her boyfriend and kept him from me for a period of 4 months

- She has a history of letting her emotions get the best of her and a history of forcing our son to call the numerous boyfriends she has had over the years, "Daddy."

- Our son asks me the same question every time I pick him up. "Are you the real Daddy?" It's obvious that she is trying to brain wash our child and alienate him from me which could explain his defiant attitude and why he says "I hate you" to me after I pick him up from his mom's.

- I've never tried to replace his mom or force our son to call another woman his mother.

- I've been involved with our son's life since day one

- I've taken care of him since birth, changed diapers, cooked breakfast, lunch, dinner, taught him how to brush his teeth, got him out of diapers into pullups, out of pullups into underwear and potty trained him myself.

- Our son is always filthy when I pick him up from his mom's. One of my cousins rode with me to pick him up a couple weeks ago, and the inside of his ears were like cob webs and dark brown. He had dry food all over his socks. His socks were black from being so dirty. His pants had kool-aid stains all over them, his hair smelt horribly, his nails never get clipped at his mom's.

- The mom claims she takes him to the dentist, doctor, but where's the paperwork and why was I never notified of it? She claims I've never taken him to the doctor. That's not true, I took him to update his shots when he was 1 years old and over the years and he has not once been sick when he's with me. Sometimes he's has a cold or a short flu after leaving his moms but after being under my care for a day or two he is completely fine.

- The mom currently pays child support (albeit a small amount) but she still pays it.

When I went home shortly after stopping by to see family on the way home one week when I picked our son up, he was so dirty the dirt was stuck to the bath tub when it drained!

She doesn't take care of his hygiene at all and has been really bad at that since he was born. I on the other hand give him baths all the time. Almost all of my family members want to give a deposition on his hygiene and that they have never once rode with me to this other state to pick up our son and that for the past 2 years, I picked him up at the same supposed residence of the mother.

- Our son during the past 2 months has called me by my first name whenever he is at his mom's. His grandfather heard him on speaker phone, so did his uncle.

Finally, is there a possibility that the judge can order the mom to move back to the home state? My state has legal jurisdiction over our case and we are not divorced yet (almost.) I have a lot of faith that because of this, I will be rewarded as the residential custodial parent with the mom having ample visitation time.

I'm hoping I don't have to go as far as this and go all in on the case with family members involved. I hope her moving away without notifying and creating this situation with our son will be enough.

Please stop with writing long posts that repeat information you have already posted. People will generally not read them.

This last post boils down to the mediator submitted the parenting plan with the issue of primary physical custody unresolved.

We have no idea how a judge will rule. A lot depends on how much information the judge is given and whether the mediator's impressions will be passed on.

Sorry Scott, the pressure/anxiety of this battle is getting to me. So I apologize for the repetitive posts.

But I have a question -- I got a copy of our parenting plan and one thing is unclear to me that the mediator wrote.

It basically said our child's residence can't be changed from the state of (blank/my home state, not the mother's) without prior written permission of court.

One thing I constantly keep in mind is that my home state has legal jurisdiction over the case and jurisdiction over our child.

Is it safe to take into consideration that the judge might award temporary physical custody of our child to me and order the mom to move back to the original home state of our child?

The mediator's report is a recommendation, not binding on the court. That being said, if the mediator is recommending that residence not be changed, it does bode well for you. I would make sure this is brought to the judge's attention.

The mediator's report is a recommendation, not binding on the court. That being said, if the mediator is recommending that residence not be changed, it does bode well for you. I would make sure this is brought to the judge's attention.

Well this will be my last post until custody is decided -- Yeah I am definitely talking to the attorney and am probably going to speak with the judge very soon. I do know that my state retains jurisdiction over our child because I have remained in the same residence. And obviously the mediator has recommended that our child cannot be removed from the home state. I've said it before that I have been involved with him since birth so I see no solid reason why the mom should be awarded physical custody. There is negative evidence that will be presented against the mom, as well as all of my family members that have had significant relationships with our child since his birth.

I'm bias (of course), but in this case, since move aways are generally the hardest cases for any divorce/custody judge to take on, I really see no reason at all why the mom should be awarded physical custody. In mediation, she was unprepared, did nothing but agree on everything I said. So, pretty much the mediation was a little one sided.

What I see is someone who took our child and fled to another state and kept it a secret until she got caught. Hopefully the judge will see this through and either award me physical custody and maybe order the mother to move back to the original state of our child.

I will keep you guys posted when the court date is near. Thanks for all your help!

***UPDATE*** Things may have either gotten easier or much worse. My son's mother who had a boyfriend they had a kid together 2 years ago while living in a different state (with me being totally unaware of it). That child was born out of wedlock because my son's mom and I are technically still married. The mom has now moved out of this other state and moved back to my home state and our son's home state. She wants to remain in her hometown and our son's hometown to be closer to family. She took her boyfriend's son from him and now she wants to file for child support against this guy because she says he has no legal parental rights over their kid. Now both my son's Mom and her now ex boyfriend are both texting me and calling me, leaving voicemails. Her boyfriend left a voicemail saying not to let my son's mom pick him up because she snatched up his son. The mom and I are still husband/wife. Part of me wants to run to the courthouse Monday and file an ex parte custody order, part of me wants to work it out with the mom. Given the mom's history of lying and trickery, I feel like I need to file for an emergency custody order ASAP. Will the court grant me this considering the Mom fleed her boyfriend and snatched up their kid? The mom previously snatched up our son back in Jan and now has done the same thing to her boyfriend. Her boyfriends voicemail said that she hadn't eaten for a week, that she was leaving our son and their kid with the boyfriend while she would disappear for 3-4 days. Will this voicemail and story hold up in front of a judge as a good reason for me to be given emergency temporary custody of our son?

Its hard to say what would happen. But there is something else that may need to be addressed. If your married to the mother still then you may be the legal father of the child. So this other child may be your responsibility too.

Well the other child's father is now wanting to help me in court. He is giving me his story on how she is unstable, always yelling in front of the kids, being violent, taking too many tylenol PM pills, leaving the children behind for days with him during the weeks I don't have my kid. Oh and he said that she's threatened to slit her wrists whenever they fight.

I am married to the mother, and I believe I am the legal father. It was addressed in court before, but the judge pretty much was like "whatever".

Well the other child's father is now wanting to help me in court. He is giving me his story on how she is unstable, always yelling in front of the kids, being violent, taking too many tylenol PM pills, leaving the children behind for days with him during the weeks i dont have my kid. Oh and he said that she's threatened to slit her wrists whenever they fight.

I am married to the mother, and I believe I am the legal father. It was addressed in court before, but the judge pretty much was like "whatever".

The "new" baby that she had with her boyfriend was addressed by the courts? That is what Im talking about. The 2nd child she had with her boyfriend may be your responsibility.

Ok so what should I do? Should I side with this other guy and take his story or stick to the status quo? I want my sons mom to be a part of his life but now I am concerned after everything he has said and the fact that she snatched up his kid from him too like she did to me 6 months ago. And the new child wasn't formally addressed by the court, I told my attorney and he said I am not responsible for the other child because it's been far too long (2 years). Legally I should be, sure, (I don't want to be though.) So now not only was my case a previous move away case and interstate custody battle, the mom has now moved out of state in this "new state" and took her "new child" away from the other dad and moved back to my home state and our son's home state. Everything got reversed.

It's a merry go round and I'm just wondering because I'm so concerned will this be enough to warrant an ex parte custody order in my favor in the mean time?

Ok so what should I do? Should I side with this other guy and take his story or stick to the status quo? I want my sons mom to be a part of his life but now I am concerned after everything he has said and the fact that she snatched up his kid from him too like she did to me 6 months ago. And the new child wasn't formally addressed by the court, I told my attorney and he said I am not responsible for the other child because it's been far too long (2 years). legally I should be, sure, (I don't wanna be though.) So now not only was my case a previous move away case and interstate custody battle, the mom has now moved out of state in this "new state" and took her "new child" away from the other dad and moved back to my home state and our son's home state. Everything got reversed.

It's a merry go round and I'm just wondering because I'm so concerned will this be enough to warrant an ex parte custody order in my favor in the mean time?


I don't understand why you aren't responsible for a child born to a woman you were married to because it's been "too long" (2 years)?

You never know what a Judge will do until he/she hears all the facts - not the emotion - in a case.

I've seen good decisions, bad decisions, totally unbelievable decisions.

Yeah but that's not the core issue though I appreciate your help. I'm more focused on whether I should let my son's mom pick him up because of my concerns over this situation. Her ex boyfriend left me a voicemail saying she took his kid from him and said all this other stuff. But since this other kid was born out of wedlock, part of me wants to just go with it. If she wants to move/live back here in her home state, my home state, and our son's home state, fine. Then I'm going to tell my attorney all of this first thing Monday morning and see what he thinks.

The other part of me as being a father I want to protect our 4 year old boy from harm. The mom does have a history of being emotionally unstable and I believe she may very well be right now so that's why I'm afraid of letting her come pick him up... That's why I'm asking if I stood a chance of being granted an emergency order based on all the information I've listed here.

If the mother is a danger to the child, either emotionally or physically, I think it's your DUTY as a parent to take action - and, yes, that would involve requesting emergency relief. As far as the boyfriend testifying for or against her it's going to look like a boyfriend taking her side OR an ex-boyfriend and sour grapes.

I would be at the Courthouse Monday morning if I thought MY child was in danger.

If the mother is a danger to the child, either emotionally or physically, I think it's your DUTY as a parent to take action - and, yes, that would involve requesting emergency relief. As far as the boyfriend testifying for or against her it's going to look like a boyfriend taking her side OR an ex-boyfriend and sour grapes.

I would be at the Courthouse Monday morning if I thought MY child was in danger.

I couldn't agree more. Ran out of greenies for you.

I never understand this - child is in danger and parent is wondering what to do - ?

Or else child isn't really in danger.

Either/or.

I never understand this - child is in danger and parent is wondering what to do - ?

Or else child isn't really in danger.

Either/or.

I think there's truth to the ex boyfriends story mixed with lies but in my heart I don't believe our son is in danger. Right now Mom and I are in a custody order week to week so I don't want to interrupt that unless there's hard evidence for me to. I haven't seen our son face abuse or neglect (it's he said, she said as far as I'm concerned), and our son just has the occasional old battle wounds a toddler gets (scrapes, a bruise from tripping.) Although I saved the voice mail her ex boyfriend left for future reference in case things get sour again because the mom snatched up our son months ago and has now done the same to the other guy (payback is a B because he was involved in snatching up my son from me before). Now that the mom is back in town our son is with the "new child", his brother. I really don't see any benefit for me to get in the way of that. The way I see it, if the Mom wants to live back in the hometown once and for all, it's best to have it written on paper legally.

Neither myself or the mom do drugs or are a danger to our kid we both take care of him equally. I think the whole situation is more or less about a psycho ex boyfriend who isn't getting his way trying to turn me against our son's Mom.

The reason I asked "what do do" was because I was concerned for a moment about our son. Until I spoke with the Mom on the entire thing and from what I gathered, she's done with this other guy and doesn't want to see him anymore and wants to be near family in our hometown and doesn't want to separate our son and this new child either.

But the Mom is also aware since we're married, the other guy technically has no parental rights to this new kid (born out of wedlock.) Now, I'm afraid the mom is going to try to go after me and hold me responsible for this new child. That's why I saved the ex boyfriends voice mail and am being cautious with this whole situation.

Anyway, thanks guys for all your help!!

Please stop referring to your child as your kid - I find it offensive and so will the Court.

Please stop referring to your child as your kid - I find it offensive and so will the Court.

There is no difference in Kid or Child. I refer to him as our child, our kid, our son. Because he is. I don't see what you find offensive in that but if you do, why even bother to take the time to read any of my post(s) and reply to them? Keep it to yourself, thanks.

There is no difference in Kid or Child. I refer to him as our child, our kid, our son. Because he is. I don't see what you find offensive in that but if you do, why even bother to take the time to read any of my post(s) and reply to them? Keep it to yourself, thanks.


You are way out of line - don't even attempt to "dictate" who will answer your questions and in what manner. I have no idea how many hours you've spent in Family Court. I've spent a few.

The Court finds the phrase "kid" offensive. It doesn't matter what you and I think.

Why do I bother to read your posts? Because you keep asking for advice and this is where I answer questions.

The more I read your posts and your attitude the better I understand your predicament.

A "kid" is a baby goat. While it has become more common to refer to human children as "kids" courts are not a liberal in this matter. Some people also are not happy with the term. Judy was trying to be helpful in making sure you don't offend the court.

Okay. Sorry judy, lol. But I do know how to talk to a judge and how to speak in court correctly. Anytime I speak to my attorney or mediator, I refer to him as our son or just use his name. I never use our kid or my kid. I never say "My" anyway because he's "Our" child. Thx for the heads up though!

Scott, do you think with the Mom now moving back to the hometown and since we are currently in a temp 50/50 custody plan that the judge will now stick to the status quo? What about this other child that she had with the other guy? He called me and explained how his name is on the birth cert, he has it and a copy of his child's social.

The mom wants to go after him for CS because she claims he has no parental rights and that I do since we're married. So now I am being dragged into the middle of their situation.

I understand I may be held responsible for this other child. I feel it's best not to separate the two, and if the Mom wants to live in our son's home state, I'm glad.

Does her moving back make things easier for our case now?