hello, I'm interested in tips for custom tile shower.. I gutted the old 39x36 lead pan that center drain.. greenboard and tripled 2x4 curb removed 2 in. mud/mesh the rest of the bathroom.. to 5/8 subfl. Is pretty solid.. glued and nailed new a 3/4 plyscore.. over this.. thinset 1/4 screwed hardiebacker and new curb, 1/2in. Hardie backer screwed to sub inside the shower and the alcove.. my question is this.. would anyone know what is than kerdi membrane and also if a quick-pitch shower floor system is worth doing? I use to just eye it from the fixed drain with a level 1/2in. Pitch drawing a line on the four sides. This will be my third shower job.. just wondering if there are any better tips or suggestions.thanks ahead, john

What you have done sounds good so far. The kerdi system is total over kill in my opinion. I install 30-40 showers each year & have used that product a few times. Very important step is to install a pre-slope under your shower pan liner for proper drainage. You can use a mud bed or buy a pre-fab pro-slope. The quick pitch is a good product for a home owner doing this. A 2 foot level and a little patience will get you a good slope on your pan. Also, spend the extra little bit and purchase a product called Aqua Defense made by Mapei. It is a waterproofing membrane that you roll on after you pour the shower pan. Paint it on the entire walls, curb & pan. This will protect you from potential mold, mildew & leakage issues that arise.

I hope this helps & good luck with your project.

Guru, I seen that aqua mapei online (red waterproof roll on ) I guess it would work but I like the kerdi membrane, one can never be too overkill with stone tile shower. I'm sure the product you suggest is easier but, I rather have a membrane on inside and outside corners and especially over the finished mud pan.. the fixed drain is off center ,so the prefabs are not an option.. . the kerdi shower kit isn't too time consuming and I don't need a shower pan liner under the mud.. just thin-set 1/2 hardiebacker to the 16oc 5/8 subfl. With recommended backer screws.. I'm going to use my two ft level and floats as recommended by the manufacturers instructions too.. . I'm going only lower portion on the walls with hardie and the upper/ceiling using stardard 1/2greenboard. Ty for sharing

Doing a good job is not overkill. Kerdi is one of the best methods to build a shower. (The best IMO). The secret is the Kerdi Drain.

There are other methods that work well. The problem is that most of the showers built in the old traditional way are built wrong. Why build it so the 2 inches of deck mud on the floor is allowed to get wet? That's what happens in the old method. A surface membrane is much better. Also remember that liquid applied membranes require several coats to be waterproof. (Some people just apply one coat and call it good enough).

Jon, am I understanding that you're putting Hardie on the floor of the shower? You'd also be better off not installing Hardie on the wall too. It's not necessary with Kerdi and it can cause you problems installing the membrane. Also, regular wallboard is better than greenboard.

Jaz

jazz, I blew out the shower alcove aprox. 4'x4' the lead pan wet subtract... bathroom floor was also poor mud job on wired 5/8 subfloor.. this is 16 oc.. I used some glue and nails for 3/4 play on the bathroom floor.. ovr that.. knotched some thinset to level the screwd down hardiebacker.. it is level to the masterbedrm. Hardwood floor and perfect to where the previous saddle was sized under the stops on the doorjamb.. as for the 5/8 sub existing in the shower.. I will wait for the plumber to do his thing replacing all the old plumbing.. after he is out of there , I'm ready to 5/8 ply over the subfloor and using thinset the hardieback screwed.. also the curb is 2x4 three high (allow for a 2 in. strucco around the lower).. I know I do not need nothing but 1/2 sheetrock but.. I plan on putting one of those inside prefab corner seats that customer has on order.. so I figure the 1/2 hardiebacker is solid on the lower 3ft.. rest of the shower I'm going sheetrock. I got to get her to pick which style kerdi drain grid.. other than that.. I'm good to go! Ty for sharing! Jaz.. tile guru, I was considering the rollon but.. I'm worried about inside/outside corner movement.. sure it is like an elastrometric type coating but I want 1000% waterproof on this job.

Kerdi is the only way I build showers now. Costs a little more, takes a little more time and several steps are more tedious. But my clients shouldn't have a problems caused by using the darn thing.

Jaz

Kerdi is the only way I build showers now. Costs a little more, takes a little more time and several steps are more tedious. But my clients shouldn't have a problems caused by using the darn thing.

Jaz

Agree, I'm sure way back the day that lead pan was used.. the pros thought it was the best system.. but evidence suggests otherwise.. those vinyl polymer liners too are in noway as water tight a system for shower alcoves.. I been in home improvements some three decades now and still learning from hands on experience. Today I am going to remove some subflooring ( rotted mold etc.) nothing too extensive or structural, just to get a solid clean base for the mbr entry to where the mbr shower pan leaked.. I'm also opening the lower sheetrock to kizl spray the shoe and studs (about 4 in.. Seam just below original baseboard line.. the previous owner was sick and pee stained some areas.. next to impossible to get all the wall done but it is working out good so far.. today, also replacing small section 5/8 subfl. And the top 5 sheets a/c 1/2 ply.. replacement is essential to rid the pee stains.. should do the trick. Ck back later.. what sand mix /morar mix you use for mud pan job? Thanks for sharing, jon

On small jobs like a shower deck use Sand Topping Mix. http://quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandToppingMix.asp This stuff comes blended at 3:1, 4:1 - 5:1 is the norm and easier to work with. Use it as is, or add some washed sand if you like.

Jaz

Yes jazz, I'm going with quikrete sandmix.. funny truth today was a plumber said that it was "state code" to use a liner prior to mudjob.. I asked this plumber if he was familiar with shculter kerdi shower systems.. his reply was , "never worked with the stuff" I wasn't about to educate him about the product, I had other projects to address.. all he was hired for to do was replace showervalve.(250.00!) he was there about an hour?. he said be sure to check the code for the shower pan.I will check.. local kerdi distributor, confirmed that no pan liner is necessary but he was not sure about state codes.. I need to find out Monday before ordering this stuff.. thanks for sharing!. ps... I'm defifitely using 1/2 waterproof hardiebacker on the lower surround/floor and curb in the shower.. rest of the alcove is 1/2 greenboard. Jon

Waterproof Hardie? Since when? Remember it's water resistant and it's more like 7/16" not 1/2". Did I mention regular wallboard is better than greenboard in this case?

Kerdi will make the job waterproof.

Just for clarification, it should be mentioned you are installing a Kerdi shower tray so you have a slopped base. You'll then install the Kerdi Drain and Membrane.

Jaz

Jazzman, I also am not sure yet if it is recommended to install a cheap pan liner before I do a custom mud floor.. that is why I wanted the lower perimeter hardiebacked.. . so I know I can just insure the four lower inside corners with inside taped membrane before the mud.. this will surely be overkill but I'll know it can't hurt... again, this is extra insurance because I am not using material pan liner for waterproofing a mudfloor. I also took in consideration hardie thickness and will shim feather to compensate 1/2 drywall on my walls.. I will check for square and plum and my floors be level.. I verified with a representative from schulter that regular, green and even hardiebacker can be used with kerdi membrane so long as it is an unmodified thinset. By the way, are you familiar with aquashield? Pretty much the same waterproof membrane but this product goes on using modified thinset.. it is blue membrane but much the same from what I heard. Thanks again for sharing ,jon

Waterproof Hardie? Since when? Remember it's water resistant and it's more like 7/16" not 1/2". Did I mention regular wallboard is better than greenboard in this case?

Kerdi will make the job waterproof.

Just for clarification, it should be mentioned you are installing a Kerdi shower tray so you have a slopped base. You'll then install the Kerdi Drain and Membrane.

Jaz

jazzman, I don't think I need the kerdi shower tray, the existing 2"pvc is off center along the existing floor/ceiling joist.. i think it more work having to cut joists/ and move pvc that is just a few inches off .. i can center my 2"pvc trap drain from curb to backwall.. but the drain will be set a few inches towards the shower head wall.. the back wall is getting a triangle bench kit anyway so dimensionally speaking, it will appear pretty close to centered.. The 17" triangle bench kit is 400lb. Capacity ,I'll be sure to use 2x6 flush between wallstuds to insure enough anchoring using screw installation through the shower tiles.. I will need a diamond 3/8 bit and cement bit.. I'm also going to install a recessed kit with a floater shelf.. ty for sharing ,jon

[QUOTE=;][/QUOTE If hardiebacker is not recommended, how do you form for a mudfloor? Still need four lower support! Especially not using a pan liner! I know I can drywall the alcove all the way down to the mudfloor. My point is this, I do not want to use a kerdi shower pan because the pan is center holed.. the floor joist will have to be cut/notch for 2"pvc drain repositioning.... below this , same joist supports a finished ceiling that i do not care to have to cut out.. and more labor is involved to reposition the existing 2" pvc.. however, the pvc trap will be centered between curb and opposite wall ( the existing 2"runs parallel along the centered floor joist ... as it stands now.. all i need to do is sawsall off the existing trap pvc drain .. install my new 2"trap and set my kerdi drain flange as instructed.. the finished layout for the grid drain will be about 2 to 3 " oc /forward the shower wall from opposite (back wall).. so I can not opt for the kerdi pan with the prefab slope/ hole cut.. I will be sure to slope float my mudfloor to(under) the kerdi flange as specified in the mudfloor steps provided on the website ty for sharing ,jon

The type of wallboard has nothing to do with the deck mud floor. The walls will be covered with the membrane either before or after the deck mud is placed. You could use Swiss cheese as the walls and Kerdi will waterproof it. :) The deck mud is covered too, of course, that's what makes the system watertight.

I am aware that wallboard, greenboard and most CBU's can be used under Kerdi, take your pick. It's just that whatever is behind Kerdi makes no difference, and some CBU's are harder to work with and to spread thin set too because they suck the water out of the thin set which might cause a failure. So if you use Hardie, be sure to dampen it just before applying thin set.

Many people can not use the foam tray, that's why we're talking mud deck in this thread. I'm sure you've seen Schluter's video. Also take a look at these pics featuring Kerdi showers. Picasa Web Albums - Tile 4 You Inc. (http://picasaweb.google.com/tile4youinc)

Jaz

Jazz, you were right, I called hardie tech support ( not using hardiebacker on the walls.. just for a skreed and the curb.. I'm going to now do the traditional mortar bed route.. receive my mortar bed.. today I'm cutting off the existing trap and dry fit/marker a new 2" pvc trap to center..i have on order model number KD2/PVC/E kerdi drain.. i do not want to glue the trap until i dry fit and level the kerdi drain to the recommended height approx 1" for mud 1/4" on 12" pitch to the walls... today I'm just going to precut the sub floor for now until my order arrives so I can see how I'm setting the kerdi shower drain in the 2" pvc. After my mortar bed is solid, I will go full vertical drywall as you mentioned.. less seams and less bs as you stated.. jazzman, ty for sharing , jon