Do you have any ideas on the different ways I can make the first move physically? Without kissing if you can. She wants the guy to be the one to initiate contact first, I know I can't go straight to her chest or , so any help would be appreciated

Why not start with something like a backrub?

Skin is a HUGE erogenous zone. Touching arms softly, brushing fingers over her face, running your hands up and down her legs.

Just TOUCH! Taking the time to slowly touch her everywhere BUT her naughty bits is a good way to start things.

PS--what's wrong with starting with a kiss?

Nothing is wrong with kissing, I'm just trying to think of other ways.

Posted new question.

I read your question and just had to respond! Have you ever watched the movie "In Her Shoes"? There is a scene where the responsible sister's "boyfriend" is making his first move... he picks up a romantic novel that's laying around and begins reading out loud one of the raunchiest parts of the book. Very sincere, in a soft, calm voice. The lights were dimmed. It was very provocative and he didn't even touch her. The words, his tone of voice, the atmosphere - oh, he wore glasses too! Those came off eventually.. Good luck!

Try not to think only of the obvious erogenous zones, I think a massage is a good idea. Also why not try getting a bit frisky when your out in public, nothing too over the top but enough so she knows you want her. No bigger turn on than feeling really sexy! Bring her for dinner, or better yet, make it!

It doesn't need to be physical, women are more emotionally based creatures, make her feel special and she'll be happy.. she doesn't need a porn star!

Synenn is right Massage all the way things can soon heat up from a massage too :)

Don't know what you're body looks like but what I do is I'll slowly take my shirt off. My girl loves my muscles. Then all I have to do is brush up against her and she is mine lol. Never hurts to lightly rub your fingers down her spine (they love it. End at the upper bottom and then back up. Shirt or no shirt. It works fine. The neck is very sensitive as well so try running your finger tips over the curves of her neck too. If she leans her head to the side she loves it. If not there isn't really a point. Tickling isn't sexy. Just remember that. No girl feels in the mood if she feels like you're going to make her wet herself lol.my poor girl. It was funny though.

A woman's biggest erogenous zone is said to be her brain.

You can access the brain through all 5 senses.
Touch - massages, kisses (everywhere), licks...
Sound - the reading one above is good, sexy chat, mood music..
Smell - you should know, or need to find out if she prefers you really clean or a bit 'manly', scented candles, massage oils...
Taste - chocolate, strawberries, champagne (cava is nearly as nice and cheaper),get her to close her eyes and hand feed her surprises (nice ones)...
Sight - look nice, peel off for her, light some candles, blindfold her (gently!)...

Think of the obvious erogenous areas as timid but expectant little pets. They want to be touched but not too quickly or they will be 'scared away'. Start with other body areas, arms, legs, torso, neck, face, whatever works with your partner. Approach the pets in a round-about manner, not too direct. Take the scenic route. When you first touch the timid pets don't linger too long as they are still a bit unsure. Backtrack to the scenic route then reapproach. Build up the real petting gradually so that the anticipation builds and you will make your woman desperate for more. Vary the direction and intensity of your touch. Sometimes move in circles, sometimes wavy lines, sometimes straighter. Sometimes use the tip of one finger very gently, sometimes your tongue, sometimes your whole hand.

Heard the song 'I need a lover with a slow hand?' - a true mantra for many females. For a woman the excitement needs to build gradually and the slower and more varied your approach the more the anticipation will drive her wild.

Having said that there will come a point where if you back off she will want to kill you...

What a bunch of crap..
I didn't even know that "first physically move" existed.
However start kissing and move slowly to the next part, if she don't like that, dump her. She will learn soon enough that relationships and life is not fairy tale.

I'm just going to backup what syn said...

I'm a guy, by the way, if I could go back to by younger teen self and buy him a clue or two, id beg that idiot to be ten times more patient and to respect the power of slow, deliberate sensual touch. And to learn the mantra "get into her head before you get into her pants"... which means there isn't no perfect "move"...

Yes... I think most guys would benefit from learning just a few simple and basic massage strokes. It isn't that hard, but it isn't intuitive either. Your mind tells you to rush to close the deal... when most of the time sexual tension is a good thing to let linger...

My belief is that all the things we commonly file under "foreplay" is NOT foreplay... foreplay should be a buildup of anticipation. Desire that is not yet fulfilled. It should be the presentation of opportunity that isn't yet realized.

In other words... yes... as a guy you think your mouth on her nipple is fantastic. And it is.

It damn well is.

But its better when she grabs your head and pushes you into her breast, isn't it? Damn right.

And my experience... and its just mine... is that most of the really "fun stuff" should be saved until you just cannot stand it any more. I LOVE my ears to be nibbled and bit at and pulled. Its really nice in foreplay... but its frickin bank in the bank in the middle of sex.

So... no... don't go right to her chest out of the gate.

You need to spend time on her... to find what makes her relax... be in the moment... what makes her lose herself... lose the world around her... and sometimes this can start with nothing more than a deliberate tracing of ones finger over anothers palm.

Sorry. You have work to do.

It's the fun and the frustration in the mystery of sex.

But, like I said, don't be afraid to be patient and listen to your partner... and Don't be afraid to ask for what you like.

Of all the things I never did, it'll be the moments when I shouldve demanded more thatll make me tick me off someday...

What a bunch of crap..
I didn't even know that "first physically move" existed.
However start kissing and move slowly to the next part, if she dont like that, dump her. She will learn soon enough that relationships and life is not fairy tale.

So, you personally don't want to hone your sexual skills to really satisfy a woman - that's fine, your right. The OP does appear to want to do so, so don't knock him or the people who try to give him a few ideas to help.

Have you never had a woman pull out all the stops to give you the time of your life? If you have why would you not want to return the favour? If not, well maybe you can work out why...

Thanks everyone for their help it means a lot.

This just confirms that I was doing right by what I was doing,

I was and am doing the massaging and touching everywhere but,

That's why I don't understand why she still says that I have to make the first move from this point.

So who initiates intimacy... I'm not talking about the "first [move] from this point" where i think you are trying to work out how to transition from sensitizing her to actually taking it up a few notches... from sensual touch to sexual interaction...

before all of that, does she seem to chase you at all? is she aggressive or does she push her wanting physical touch? can she seem to go without intimacy or does it drive her? and if so, how? does she act or complain?

just curious.

as for how do you transition from sensual touch to past that... that comes down to each couple. no one perfect recipe.

sometimes you can be mismatched. my previous lover was always too passive for my likes when it came to escalating things in the bedroom. ive dated other women who where more aggressive about demanding what they wanted... and who were more aggressive about controlling me some. i love to chase, but its even better when im being chased also. i like that back and forth. im more than glad to initiate, but i can lose myself in the moment more when she seems driven too.

is that what you are missing? not feeling as much in the moment because she isnt initiating more?

again... that might just be her "style"... there were times with that previous lover when things clicked almost perfectly... but most of the time i felt she could step things up more... we talked about it. had some communication. but she never seemed to move far from her initial "comfort zone"... ultimately i had to simply accept i needed to initiate if it was ever going to go anywhere. it took the "good tension" down a notch for me, but doing a little more work was better than nothing.

that doesnt mean you must "settle"... you own your decision. You rarely get more than you demand or ask for...

So... what's the real problem here? On your side? What about this is bugging you? Unsure? Feeling unchased? Feeling like there's more you need to know? Etc?

I just don't know what to do anymore because all that ever comes up is her telling me that this is why we should go slow.

I don't know how much slower we can go, its been over 3 months of dating and we were friends that hung out everyday for four months before that.

I said I love you last week.

I feel rejected at that fact that if its not one thing its another that we should go slow.

I'm hurt and I don't think its right.

And what drives me nuts is that fact that I know we should take it slow and want to take it slow.

I feel like she repeatedly saying that we should take it slow is judging whether she wants to take the relationship further, that she is judging whether I am good enough or we are being open enough with each other.

Okay, at THREE MONTHS of dating, that explains why she's putting the brakes on things a bit.

YOU can't get pregnant. Three months isn't enough time to decide if you want to have someone's baby or not--and that's REALLY what you have to decide when you choose to have sex, honestly. No birth control ni the world is 100%.

Honestly--I think the problem is that you're not communicating effectively. She's saying that you need to make the first move, but need to move slow. You're saying that no physical attention is making you feel hurt and unwanted.

TALK about these things. If you can't talk openly and honestly with someone about sex, you shouldn't be having sex with that person anyway.

Honestly--I think the problem is that you're not communicating effectively. She's saying that you need to make the first move, but need to move slow. You're saying that no physical attention is making you feel hurt and unwanted.


I don't get how this is talking to someone about sex, can you help clarify to me how it is... she has been open to a llittle uddling and hand holding and we are so close yet so far... I think you hit it on the head but I'm missing it, can you explain maybe in a way where what you said is sex related because you are right that if we can't talk openly about sex we shouldn't be having sex anyway...

I would really appreciate your help.

I don't understand how I'm not talking openly about sex with her,

What am I missing?

This is really hurting me cause I know that her and I are on the same page,

I just feel like maybe I'm stupid and its so obvious,

Her and I have been the best thing to happen to each other,

I'm 28 and she is 30,

We also share the same birthday.

What does make the first move mean?
Have you two kissed and how old are you two?
If you have kissed and done the heavy petting thing, ask her if she is ready. That is a move.

First, no chat speak in the adult sexuality boards. If you are asking about adult issues, you need to be able to type like an adult.

Second--are you really TALKING and LISTENING to each other? Are you coming right out and telling her that you feel neglected because she doesn't chase you as well? Are you listening when she says she wants to take it VERY slowly--not only because of pregnancy or disease fears, but because once you cross that line in a relationship, you can never go back.

Do you talk to each other about your hopes and fears in the bedroom? Do you let each other know when you're disappointed, happy, hopeful, angry, whatever? Do you share fantasies? Have you ASKED her what she means about making the first move?

If you're not comfortable enough with each other to clarify how you both feel about sex, you're not comfortable enough to have sex anyway.

As a good friend of mine says--you have to get into her HEAD before you can get into her PANTS.

As a good friend of mine says--you have to get into her HEAD before you can get into her PANTS.

Hmmm... who could that be? ;)

I just don't want to lose her, what her and I accomplished and shared in and the openness and honesty that has been between us means as much to me as my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I guess I am surprised that I am not into her head even though she has said specifically that I have already won the fact that she likes me.

So... she likes you. Great! Good start.

What's her favorite flower? Favorite lotion? Where does she liked to be touched in a non-sexual way? What time of day does she most prefer to be kissed? What's something you do that makes her melt? What's her favorite candy? Her favorite way of spending Sunday morning? How does she take her coffee? What's her biggest hang-up in bed? What does she hate about her own body? What does she dream about for a romantic getaway? Are her feet ticklish? Sensative? Aching at the end of the day? Does she like having her hair stroked? Does she like it when you talk dirty? Does she like it when you kiss her belly button? What outfit does she wear that makes her feel the sexiest?

It's not ABOUT learning what turns her on physically. It's about what turns her on mentally and emotionally. You may not be able to answer all of those questions--that's FINE! That's part of moving slowly. Those and a thousand more questions.

Be more interested in what gets her there MENTALLY than what gets her there PHYSICALLY.

i dont understand how im not talking openly about sex with her,

what am i missing?

this is really hurting me cause i know that her and I are on the same page,

i just feel like maybe im stupid and its so obvious,

her and i have been the best thing to happen to each other,

im 28 and she is 30,

we also share the same birthday.
Have you asked her what it is that she wants you to do?
Tell her that you are not understanding her signals. You two are not kids.

She may very well like you but maybe she... I don't know.
At 30 she is too old to play games and so are you.
Sit her down, tell her how you are feeling, tell her want to be with her physically and you want to know if she feels the same way.
She either does or she doesn't but at least you both will know what page you're on.

Thanks for the answer. What about me? What about what I want?

That's where the talking and listening comes in.

She talks, you listen.

You talk, she listens.

You can reverse those questions for her, you know... does she know YOUR favorite touch zone? Does she know your favorite sports team? How about how you like to unwind after a rough day? Your favorite kind of breakfast in bed? How do you order your steak?

She needs to get into YOUR head, too.

And I STILL say that there's nothing that says you have to hop into bed at three months into the relationship. But--you're not going to know REALLY what's going on until you discuss it with her.

Thanks for the answer. What about me? What about what I want?
You tell her what you want, she tells you what she wants. That's beneficial for both of you.

i feel like she repeatedly saying that we should take it slow is judging whether she wants to take the relationship further, that she is judging whether i am good enough or we are being open enough with
each other.

Good for her. This is called being realistic and not caught up in the falling-for-another buzz.

I know. It sucks for you. You've declared your love for her and you are needing more. Sounds like you are in too deep.

I don't know. I get that early relationship rush is powerful... but you hung out with her all the time before dating and now you're in so much deeper. When you make all your time about the other person or about the relationship, you lose your identity.

And when guys do that... they often risk becoming the girls "girlfriend"... there to support and share and be there... but more like a girlfriend than a mate who is independent, has their own likes and life.

Not everybody needs to do it the same way... but I think too many get caught up in that rush early on and lose themselves along the way.



this is really hurting me cause i know that her and I are on the same
page

Really? It honestly doesn't sound like it. You can have a lot in common and a lot of good overlap... but you are a lot further along, and almost sounding desperate. I'm not trying to take a swing at you... I'm just saying that you seem to be willing to do all of this work at any cost... what is wrong with stepping back and seeing if she'll chase you?

I don't know many women who think living with a "butler" is satisfying long term.

And I don't feel bad using these terms or making these judgements because I've done it myself. Been too wrapped up in another. Tried to hard to make things right. Lost myself in the interest of maintaining a relationship. I've been the girlfriend and the butler.



we also share the same birthday.

This is so completely not relevant and sound high schoolish. People aren't soul mates because of things like this. Then again, I don't believe in soul mates anyway...

Uhm... ranting here as usual.

I think she has work to do to chase you. Don't you think you deserve to be chased? Well... that means sometimes putting a little distance between you. You don't have to play head games... but I do think you might need to be willing to expect that you won't have to do all the work.

Right now... she sounds like she need a breath. That's not unhealthy. This is a chance for you to do the same. Reset. Center yourself.

Stop building this relationship up so high on a pedestal. Maybe you are great together. Fine. But it seems like you are putting a lot of pressure on this situation.

You know when a woman says she likes you and is even attracted to you, and has spent more that 3 months with you, it does not mean she is ready to have sex with you. Maybe the next step for her is spending exclusive time and investing a bit of her heart not her body. Three months is not a lot of time.
You two need to sit down and have an adult conversation. Ask her what it is she wants, tell her what you want and then see if there is enough there to move forward.

dunno. i get that early relationship rush is powerful... but you hung out with her all the time before dating and now you're in so much deeper. when you make all your time about the other person or about the relationship, you lose your identity.


I don't make all my time about her or the relationship cause I know I will lose my identity. Who I am and what I like is working and paying my bills and if I am lucky saving a few bucks and having a nice evening and a nice weekend when it is the weekend.

I want to be chased, that's why I stopped kissing her as we both agreed for Lent. 40 days of no kissing. Last week I also asked if we could take a few days where we don't see each other, and we did it fine.

this is so completely not relevent and sound high schoolish. people aren't soul mates because of things like this. then again, i dont believe in soul mates anyway...

I completely agree, its just something I really find fascinating and enjoy.

and when guys do that... they often risk becoming the girls "girlfriend"... there to support and share and be there... but more like a gf than a mate who is independent, has their own likes and life.

not everybody needs to do it the same way... but i think too many get caught up in that rush early on and lose themself along the way.

My own likes are just working and paying bills, having a healthy relationship, playing a little poker if I'm lucky, hang out with a friend now and again.

That scares me because I do not put her or our relationship on a pedestal. I have my own life my own independence. I have been living on my own since I was 15.

i think she has work to do to chase you. dont you think you deserve to be chased? well... that means sometimes putting a little distance between you. you dont have to play head games... but i do think you might need to be willing to expect that you wont have to do all the work.

I believe that my choice to be independent through working and paying my bills and saving money and spending time trying to understand my relationship with Jesus and what the Holy bible has to say.

She has went from being anti christian to believing in Jesus, wearing a cross and going to church together for the last 5 months or more. This dance we have going is just tiring, I don't understand why she keeps bringing up this is why we need to go slow... I thought the beginning of a new relationship is suppose to be like a honeymoon phase.

I won't ever become the girlfriend or butler, I would rather walk away. I did it before and won't do it again, it just seems its not good enough for her and so she doesn't chase me at all.

I just wish she would let it be and let us enjoy each other and take it slow and see that we have our independence and eacht other.

Thanks for your help, it means a lot.

If she went from anti christian to believing and going to church, and if you are all about following Jesus and doing what the bible says, why are you in such a hurry to get her in bed and not understanding her reluctance?
Sounds to me like she is maybe doing what the bible says.

I'm going to start coming across like an ***hole to her and it won't be deliberate or Im going to end it with us because I don't know how else to deal with it, or what else to do.

I am no butler or no girlfriend or therapist. I don't just kiss anybody and I certainly don't have a woman tell me that I make her heart melt and yet tell me that she thinks this is why we should go slow.

I don't say I love you or fall in head over heels and put her or the relationship on a pedestal. I just know who I am and I know who she is from what she has told me.

What is your beef then? She won't have sex with you and you think she should?
You may very well make her heart melt but she sounds like a smart lady. You two have been dating for 3 months and she is not going to hop in bed with you because you make her heart flutter. A Fluttering heart has gotten many a woman in trouble.

Is this all about sex? You didn't answer my question about your faith. Maybe she is doing what she believes is morally right,(what knowing you has led her to by the way) why do you have a problem with that?

Sit down and have a talk with her. Find out what she is thinking instead of assuming or looking for people who don't know her or you to tell you what's going on.

If I came down harshly, you've given some reasons for worry. I know the following was from a previous relationship, but there are signs that you have, at least in the past, stayed at almost any cost...

Again, this is from a previous relationship... not this one...


It went on for another two years with her cheating on me in the last year and me forgiving her but she kept at her hidden agenda even though she was still with me and I was trusting that she wasn't. She then left me in the new year.

i would cook clean do everything in my power to make sure she was okay, she even once told me in the car that as soon as she gets the chance, she is going to leave me, months passed and she still stayed in my bed and shared incomes and then bang, just like that, she tells me she needs time....

She wouldn't be with me if I didn't tell her I loved her in the beggining of the relationship, and at one point i refused and she left, it was a week later when i was hurting over my own issues that i called her and told her I realized i want to be with her and so I love you.

Now... I think you're trying to not fall into that same trap... and I think this girl shouldn't pay for a past lovers bad deeds... but the intensity that you brought to the "should i kiss her" thread, and then carried into this thread, worries me.

If somebody tells you "im going to leave you as soon as i get the chance"... they don't get to stay in your bed for months...

So you seem to want to have more control in this relationship... but you're already stressing and in a weakened position. How many posts did you fret over whether you should or should not kiss her and how to and when to? And now that its more physical, you are still in the same place... not sure of how to act or when to act or what she's thinking or needing or wanting.

Again... I've done it all myself. Made about every mistake a person can make in a relationship.

The girl you are with might be all that and more. But if you find yourself mulling over this relationship and your position in it and your next move all throughout the day... if you are constantly off balance... it's a red flag.

Ill step down from the soapbox. Glad you are still talking this out here. Hope you two can talk things out together.

My girlfriend's boss is in love with her. She has told me it will never happen and she isn't going too quit her job because he loves her. Even though its not right that this guy is in love with her when she isn't available. Well my dillemna is this.

They are moving stores and so she told me today that after work she is going to the new store with him to look over the layout and meet with the contractor at 7pm and she will be back by 9pm. Well I didn't hear about it till today and she isn't back yet and I haven't heard from her.

Is it wrong for me to be concerned even if I trust her. I mean this guy loves her.

I can really use an opinion.

I can't add to what I've already said... it either makes sense or it doesn't.

Anybody else?

I think you need to just step away from this lady.
If what she is saying about her boos is true she sounds kind of flaky to me.
I think you may be with the wrong person and all of these are red flags.

You may be a Christian, you may be independent, but your stubborn, insecure, and have a bad taste in your mouth from the past, and your inexperience is working against you. That's why she is taking you very slowly as she has to be cautious that all you want is to replace a relationship you had with better benefits.

You have yet to make love to her mind, and until you do, you get nothing.

Its really quite simple, you pay close attention, and make her comfortable enough to talk to you from her heart, and trust you enough to share her secret thrills, hopes, and dreams with you, as well as her deepest fears, and after all this time, well not really, the fact you don't know these things is quite telling where the relationship is. You think you deserve sex because of all the time you spent, or the dinners and movies? Think again, my friend, that's barely the surface, and you have to go deeper.

That's why she is going to slow with you, to protect herself, and her dignity, and self respect, as you have not made love to her mind but expect her to just give you her body. Ain't going to happen friend, and the 7 months you have put in on the surface is nothing with finding out the true character of a person, and though you have earned the time on an elementary level, she still will not trust you with her heart, or anything else because you haven't earned it.

I have read all your other posts and the thing that stands out the most is you have barely scratched the friends level, have barely gotten to the like stage, and maybe with your attitude, that's as far as you go.

If I can see that from what you have written, then she can surely see it from being with you for 7 months.

Woman can tell by words, deeds, attitudes, and actions if there is more worth searching for, and learning about, and until they have that signal, that curiosity, from you that you want them, and not just the body, you get neither, just some time.

You really should pay attention and look deeper than you have, and see what's really there. Then you will understand why she is taking it slow with you.

This has nothing to do with the physical act of sex, but the building of a bond based on trust, and communications. Its about more than going through the motions, or putting in the time, its about the caring, and not only believing it, but knowing it. As long as she thinks she will be hurt, she will protect herself. That's where you are, a guy with potential, but hasn't lived up to it yet. I know you have questions still, as that's why you're all over seeking answers, so go for it, and be specific, for as long as you feel she should be rewarding you with her body, she won't.

Because the rest of the relationship has been well covered, I am am going to discuss your latest issue:


My girlfriend's boss is in love with her. She has told me it will never happen and she isn't going too quit her job because he loves her. even though its not right that this guy is in love with her when she isn't available. Well my dillemna is this.

They are moving stores and so she told me today that after work she is going to the new store with him to look over the layout and meet with the contractor at 7pm and she will be back by 9pm. Well i didn't hear about it till today and she isn't back yet and I havent heard from her.

Is it wrong for me to be concerned even if I trust her. I mean this guy loves her.

I can really use an opinion.

She shouldn't have to leave her job just because her boss has feelings for her. If he acts on those feelings, HE is in the wrong, NOT her. In this economy, changing jobs is not easy and could put her in an even worse situation.

This is for future reference:
She has a job. She is working. Schedules change due to unforeseen circumstances like traffic, flat tires, other people running late, etc. IF you really do trust her, then trust her to do her job that she is getting paid to do and will be back when she can get there. DO NOT jump to conclusions about what you imagine might be going on between them. Doing that only shows that you do not have the trust in her that you think you do.

Any one would be concerned, just out of caring, but how you react, and act to those feelings is the important thing. I wouldn't make a mountain out of it though.

I'm just wondering what the point was in telling him that her boss is in love with her. There had to have been something come up for the topic about the boss to be discussed. Had I not know these two people are adults and 30+ I would have thought this was a teenage thing.

My thought is this is not a match. Too many insecurities and lack of communication.

I'm just wondering what the point was in telling him that her boss is in love with her. There had to have been something come up for the topic about the boss to be discussed. Had I not know these two people are adults and 30+ I would have thought this was a teenage thing.

My thought is this is not a match. Too many insecurities and lack of communication.

I don't think it is a good match either. Both of them seem to lack basic relationship-based communication skills at the very least.

He doesn't say how he 'knows' that the boss is in 'love' with her. He alludes to them having a discussion about it and from there her reaction. She could have told him or he could have worked it out for himself. It could have been part of a discussion before they became a couple. Friends discussing their workplaces type conversation. They have been a 'couple' for not quite four months. They were friends for four months before that.

There is also the possibility that he has built up these issues in his own mind because of his own insecurities and past history. Part of every question is only getting the perspective of one side.