Log in

View Full Version : Engine turns over but won't start (1992 Honda Prelude 2.0i)


prelude1974
Feb 12, 2010, 03:20 PM
I replaced the battery as it was dead and then started up the engine and it started fine. I did not take the car for a drive then.

The next day I tried to start the car and it would not start and heard a loud bang/pop noise from the engine area. Tried many times since then but the engine turns but won’t start.

For the past 9-12 months, it sometimes took a 2nd attempt to start the engine in the mornings, but it ALWAYS started.

It’s a very low mileage car for its age, 85,000 miles.

What could be causing the problem? And what do I need to do to get the car working again?

cdad
Feb 12, 2010, 03:30 PM
You could have lost a timing belt. If you have fuel compression and spark it should start. The loud bang pop could have been a backfire through the fuel system ? Carb / throttle body.
If the miles are low and the car is old then the belt can weaken over time and a backfire could caus the belt to slip or break.

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 12, 2010, 03:32 PM
. Ensure the timing belt did not break. Remove the oil filler cap and, while someone else cranks the engine, look inside and see that the camshaft rotates.

. Perform tests in the link below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-11.html#post2123675

prelude1974
Feb 12, 2010, 05:46 PM
I will check the belt tomorrow, however I don't think it's that as a new belt was put in at about 80,000 miles.

Will also run through the tests outlined above and come back with my findings.

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 12, 2010, 06:06 PM
It's important to note whether the Check Engine Light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II). Also, note whether you can hear the fuel pump, located in the fuel tank, run during that 2 second interval.

prelude1974
Feb 13, 2010, 03:09 PM
UPDATE:

I did the Check Engine Light test and it comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out

I had a guy who lives near me (he is a mechanic) come have a look at the car (as my experience is limited). He took out the 4 spark plugs and attached a device to the openings. The device had a dial and on the dial, the 1st third was red, the 2nd third was Green and the last 3rd was again red.

Every time the device was attached to each of the spark plug openings and I tried to stat the car, the dial needle measured between 400-450 (halfway through the 1st third – Red zone. He said something about not enough (or was it too much?) compression. He said the needle should be around 100 and reach the green zone at least.

Does this help anyone in regards to what could be wrong?

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 13, 2010, 04:25 PM
He ran a compression test and found out the compression is real low. Major engine rebuilding (valves, head, timing belt) will be required.

cdad
Feb 13, 2010, 05:34 PM
Compression of 400-450 is way too high. It indicates the vales aren't working in this cylinders. They aren't opening at all. It could indicate a broken cam.

prelude1974
Feb 13, 2010, 05:52 PM
Major engine rebuilding (valves, head, timing belt) will be required.

Can all them things malfunction at the same time? Or is it a case of once everything has been opened up then you find out what exactly need's to be replaced?

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 13, 2010, 05:56 PM
Did your aluminum head engine ever overheat? Usually, valve damage and warped heads come from overheating. After the head is machined, the valves are repaired, the head gasket replaced, and then the water pump and timing belt are replaced. Depending upon where you live, it could cost $2,500 to $3,000.

prelude1974
Feb 13, 2010, 06:11 PM
I'm not sure about the head engine overheating, how would I tell this? Are there any tell tell signs to spot this?

One min, the car was running fine, had a flat battery so replaced that. Car started fine after replacing battery. Next day it would not start, head a loud pop/band from the engine and that's it.

$2,000 - $3,000 is a lot of money, more than the cars worth!!

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 13, 2010, 06:26 PM
Yep. In life, and with cars, that's often the way it is. One day, I put my 1993 Civic away in the garage as Miss Perfect. The next day, it didn't start and the ECM ($1,100 computer) was toast. If you keep a car long enough, some event will ultimately cause you to get rid of it.

Even though I love my Civic, I feel Hondas and Toyotas are overrated. None of them deserve to be placed on a pedestal the way Consumer's Report and the American public have done.

prelude1974
Feb 25, 2010, 08:01 AM
UPDATE:

The mechanic opened it all up and found that the valves were leaking (just as you predicted). The valves have now been repaired, head gasket replaced & timing belt replaced.

Now the engine won’t turn?? (there is no spark - when before there was a spark).

What could be the reason for this? And what else can we try to get the car started?

TxGreaseMonkey
Feb 25, 2010, 08:15 AM
Did the mechanic set the timing at TDC on the compression stroke?

Assuming the basic engine timing was set correctly, the distributor was installed properly (i.e. the timing is fairly close), and the wiring harness is fine, I would focus on the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil. The mechanic may not, however, have marked the distributor housing, prior to removal, and the timing is now way off. If the timing is fine, here's how to replace the ICM and coil:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-4.html#post265896

prelude1974
Mar 2, 2010, 08:23 AM
The mechanic came to the conclusion that the distributor may be at fault and sent it to be checked. This was confirmed that indeed it was not working in the manner that it should be.

During this time he fitted another distributor (just for testing purposes) from another car and he got a spark. So this confirms that the original distributor was faulty.

Yesterday evening he picked up a re-conditioned distributor for my car, fitted it and no spark??

He is going to go back later on today to change the distributor and I’m hoping that this will finally solve the problem. But from the above scenario is there anything else I should get him to do/check?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 2, 2010, 08:33 AM
Have the mechanic install a genuine Honda distributor housing. Over 50% of new aftermarket and reconditioned distributors for Honda have not worked at AMHD. And those that did work initially died prematurely. It's fine for him to install an aftermarket ICM and coil in the Honda housing, in order to same money. This should solve your problem.

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 2, 2010, 08:39 AM
Once you get your Prelude running again, here are some recommendations to properly maintain your car:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563.html#post219991

prelude1974
Mar 3, 2010, 11:22 AM
TxGreaseMonkey, thank you for all your help so far, you have been spot on with your diagnostics :-)

It seems the reconditioned distributor was at fault, as temporarily he has put in one from a prelude that was scrapped and my cars working. Just waiting on the faulty reconditioned one to be replaced and put back into my car. So could I have just used my old original distributor and simply replaced with an aftermarket ICM and coil?

I took the car for a short spin and one thing I did notice is that the electronic temp gauge goes from 25% then 50% (midway) and then after a while drops back to 25%, sits there for a bit and then comes back to 50%?? This happened twice in a short journey, in the past I noticed it happen once in a blue moon on long journeys and even then it would be a one off instance. Is this anything for me to worry about?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 3, 2010, 11:34 AM
Likely, the answer is yes to your question. Once I know the problem is distributor-related, I almost invariably recommend replacing just the ICM and coil, in the old distributor, to save money. If the problem persists, then I suggest replacing the distributor housing with a genuine Honda product and installing the new aftermarket ICM and coil in it.

This link should help you troubleshoot your temperature gauge:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-11.html#post2043857

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 3, 2010, 11:44 AM
Yes, I would get to the bottom of the temperature gauge issue. You need to have total confidence in your gauges. Since some of your problems may have stemmed from the engine overheating at some point, go over the cooling system. Ensure the system was refilled with the proper 50/50 mixture of antifreeze and distilled water. These links should help:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-3.html#post235973

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-7.html#post1365453

Maintaining proper fluids (chemistry) is the key to trouble-free motoring. Always use the best products available.

prelude1974
Mar 4, 2010, 12:28 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry now!

Today I tried to start the car (its still got the temporary distributor installed – which I found out today is from a 94 Honda Accord) and it looks like its about to start, then starts for a second and then dies!

Yesterday the car worked fine. My short journey consisted of parking/restarting the car 2/3 times and each time it started first time.

What's going on now?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 4, 2010, 12:52 PM
It appears to be the same problem; i.e. a bad distributor. Call this outfit and see what they would charge for a genuine Honda distributor housing for your car:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=215070

They have good prices and I have used them a number of times.

prelude1974
Mar 23, 2010, 08:01 AM
Your right it was a bad distributor, he changed the coil in the re-conditioned one he got and it sparked and started the engine. He is now going to take it back out, get the money back on it and I’m going to get a new one.

Unfortunately that is not the end of my problems :-( Since then I’ve taken the car on a few short runs (5-10 minutes each day) for a few days and everything seemed to be OK, apart from me feeling that the brakes were ‘slipping’?? As in when I pressed the brake, it didn’t quite feel right.

Last night I took the car for its first long journey and I noticed that the car was backfiring when I pressed the accelerator. Eventually the steering wheel felt a little heavier than usual and the car was really struggling to pick up speed, it was as if it was going up some steep hill. Then the check engine light came on.

This morning I took it for a short drive, still the same problem car having trouble picking up speed and sounds like its really working hard. Again the check engine light came on a few minutes into the journey.

What could be causing the problem? And is it even worth getting it repaired?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 23, 2010, 08:16 AM
Installing a new genuine Honda distributor should go a long way in correcting performance problems. Just buy the housing from Honda and install your new coil in it. I'd buy a new aftermarket Ignition Control Module and also install it in the new housing. This will save money.

Regarding the brakes, be sure to change the brake fluid every 2 years, as Honda recommends.

prelude1974
Mar 23, 2010, 08:27 AM
So could a distributor which is currently fitted in the car (and appears to be working as the engine is starting and I’m able to drive the car) be causing the engine to backfire/over rev? As well as stopping the car from picking up speed? And causing the check engine light to come on?

I thought a distributor would either work or not work?? Or am I incorrect in this assumption?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 23, 2010, 08:32 AM
Incorrect in that assumption. New aftermarket distributors are huge problem for Honda owners. Over 50% fail out of the box and the remaining ones usually don't work properly for long. Hang around AMHD and see. Backfire could be caused by the timing being too far retarded or bad internal distributor sensors.

You should check what code was thrown.

prelude1974
Mar 23, 2010, 08:41 AM
I'm based in the UK and have seen this distributor on eBay HERE (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IGNITON-DISTRIBUTOR-NEW-HONDA-PRELUDE-2-0-92-TD58_W0QQitemZ370296883051QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item56376a076b) The company seems genuine and have been trading on eBay for over 6 years and they give a lifetime guarantee on the distributor. I called them up and they said that there was a manufacturing fault on all genuine honda distributors which they have fixed with their model?

Is it worth taking a chance on this distributor for £135 delivered (approx $200)?

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 23, 2010, 08:48 AM
Personally, I wouldn't buy anything but a genuine Honda distributor housing. In my opinion, all others are suspect and not reliable.

I've also read how certain aftermarket axle manufactures have "corrected" OEM difficiencies. What you find is that instead of an interferrence fit, going into the hub, it is now a sloppy fit. Take it all with a "grain of salt." An old universal truth is, "You get what you pay for."

prelude1974
Mar 23, 2010, 09:24 AM
I will have a search around to see what the prices for a genuine Honda housing unit here in the UK is.

Will keep you posted on how I get on and hopefully this will be the end of the long list of problems encountered so far... lol :-)

TxGreaseMonkey
Mar 23, 2010, 09:28 AM
After you buy a genuine Honda distributor housing, install your own ICM and coil. That has proven, over and over, to be a cost effective solution that has stood the test of time.

prelude1974
Apr 12, 2010, 08:32 AM
I thought I had resolved the problem after putting in a new distributor. A few days later I did notice that the lights which come on when you control the heating/cooling did not always work, however I though nothing off it as the car was starting and worked fine.

Then about a week later nothing is working?? When I put the key in and try to start the car I’m not getting anything, even the lights on the dashboard don’t come on, the headlights are very dim etc. All the signs of a dead battery. However a brand new battery was put in less than 2 months ago (and less than a 100 miles have been done since).

What could be the cause of this? As I know a new battery should not stop working in such a short period. Could there be anything that would be causing the battery not to charge?

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 12, 2010, 09:11 AM
. Check/replace the ignition switch for wear, pitting, or melting:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-2.html#post224652

. Test all under hood and under dash fuses with a test light or multimeter:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-3.html#post252145

prelude1974
Apr 12, 2010, 09:22 AM
Could that cause my headlights to be real dim? As I test them without the need for having to put the key in the ignition. In the past they would have been bright, now they are probably at around 10-15% brightness.

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 12, 2010, 09:27 AM
Yes. Easy job.

prelude1974
Apr 14, 2010, 10:21 AM
Before I check/change the ignition switch, I've just had a jump start and my car worked as per normal (lights on, ignition started etc). As soon as the jump leads were removed and I tried to start the car, I was back at square one, nothing working.

So based on this, is checking/change the ignition switch the first course of action?

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 14, 2010, 10:41 AM
If everything worked, after jumping the car, it sounds like you need a new battery.

prelude1974
Apr 14, 2010, 12:07 PM
The strange thing is I put in a brand new battery just before all the problems started and have since done less than 100 miles. So there is no logical way for the battery to be dead within such a short period.

Is there anything that could cause a battery to drain or not charge?

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 14, 2010, 12:10 PM
This link may offer some ideas:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563-3.html#post241804

prelude1974
Apr 23, 2010, 09:38 AM
I have a feeling that the central locking is causing the drain on the battery. As I jump started it for 15 minutes and the car was fine for about 3 days, then I left it without starting it for 2 days and now I’m back to square one.

The central locking has been playing up recently and the first time I encountered the flat battery syndrome (2 weeks back), I heard a repetitive noise on the passenger side door, the noise was as if the lock was opening/shutting. Hence me drawing conclusions to the battery drain being down to the central locking.

Is there an easy was to disconnect the central locking totally? I’m happy to use the car keys to open/close the doors.

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 23, 2010, 10:53 AM
Maybe, if it has a dedicated fuse.

prelude1974
Apr 23, 2010, 10:59 AM
Do you know if a 92 prelude has a dedicated fuse? And if so where it would be located?

I'm hoping that it does have a fuse and pulling it should do the trick.

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 23, 2010, 11:03 AM
Sorry, I don't know. It's likely in the under dash fuse box, however, if it has one.

prelude1974
Apr 23, 2010, 11:35 AM
Ok thanks, will have a look to see if there is one.

What would be the best course of action if it does not have a dedicated fuse?

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 23, 2010, 12:11 PM
Possibly buy a solar charger that plugs into the cigarette lighter.

prelude1974
Apr 23, 2010, 12:34 PM
Having checked the service/repair manual I can see that in the underhood fuse/relay panel there is a fuse (15 Amp) which is marked as "Power Door Lock Control Unit", so hopefully pulling this should do the trick.

TxGreaseMonkey
Apr 23, 2010, 01:16 PM
That would be great.

prelude1974
Apr 25, 2010, 07:58 AM
Well I pulled the underhood fuse marked as "Power Door Lock Control Unit" and tried to jump the car but no luck, as with the fuse out for some reason the car was not getting any power and would not jump start??

Put the fuse back in, jump started the car and it started. Took it for a 10 min ride, came back and switched off engine and then pulled out the fuse. Tried to re-start the car, this time with the fuse out and the car started. So hopefully this has resolved the problem.

Will see what happens over the next few days.