Hi, Thanks for reading my post. I came here out of desperation. Long story short: My husband prefers the company of his male friend over mine in a BIG way. It's my own fault; I'm a realtor and I sold him and his wife a home in our neighborhood 2 years ago. Since then, our marriage has completely gone downhill (at that point we were together 4 years and married 1 year with a PERFECT relationship/marriage. We always had several friends, always hanging out with different people. I felt "whole" to always be around different walks of life. When Jay (my husband's friend's) military wife went overseas to Iraq, that's when it REALLY started.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to be a good friend, but it crossed the line. For over 6 months, I saw Jay's face from the time I got up on a Sat. morning until I said "goodnight" on a Sunday evening (to him and my husband), not to mention almost every night of the week. We were losing contact with our other friends and not doing "different" things like meeting new people like we used to. When I would get home from work on a weeknight before my husband, I'd see Jay ride by the house several times to see if my husband was home yet (our house WAS NOT on his way home, he lived before our house). Finally I blew up after 6 months or so. The thought of hurting Jay's feelings was the second time I had ever seen my husband cry (the first time was when his dog of several years died, which I understand, and was one of the reasons I love him so much).

We were a threesome (not literally, but I felt like I had 2 husbands my husband had 2 wives). Now that Jay's wife has returned, it's really not any different. She's obviously depressed, and sleeps almost all the time she's home. She's also pregnant, and needs Jay. I don't really talk with her about it because I don't want to stress her any more than needed. I HAVE talked with her about her depression and sleeping all the time, but not mentioning that it's indirectly affecting our marriage, because I don't want to be selfish. So there, now more reason for Jay to come over, or for my husband to go over there. He has basically no other friends besides my husband. When I try to talk to my husband about it, he gets angry, blows up, and says that Jay is only trying to be our friend and that he's done nothing wrong. We NEVER NEVER fought until Jay came into the picture. And the fights have been bad. Really bad. I really need advice, at this point I'm so "over it" I'm considering consulting with an attorney for a divorce. All I want are freindships in moderation, and to be "number one" to my husband, not for another MAN to be. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving.

I don't know if this will help, but you might try making plans with family or other friends and tell your husband in advance that you want to spend some time with him/family/friends, or take off for the weekend with just him and spend some intiment time alone. It sounds like he has just gotten used to having all of his time for just him and has forgotten what it is like to spend time with you. This is the only suggestion I have. I hope it helps. Good luck.

Thank you. I've already tried that; and Jay calls every day during the trip at least once.

I realized yesterday just how sick this relationship is. While Jay's 7 month pregnant wife is home trying to empty/clean/paint an office to be used as a nursery, Jay has gone to my husband's business to work for him for FREE the whole day. Jay's boss gave him the day off at the last minute. Yesterday was my husband's birthday, so instead of helping his wife, he helps my husband all day for free and takes him to lunch. I haven't told his wife this, as she's considered high risk and I don't want to cause any undue stress. Sick, sick, sick. I didn't call my husband all day to wish him a happy birthday because I didn't want to "compete" with another guy! Good thing, I would have had to eat lunch with him, too! I'm never asked my husband to stop being friends with him, all I asked was a friendship in MODERATION; is that too much to ask? This makes me sick!

Is there anyway he could swing both ways.
This is a question that needs to be asked.

Is there anyway he could swing both ways.
This is a question that needs to be asked.

This is a tough one. I also have to wonder if there's more to it than a regular hetero guy friendship. But regardless, the relationship is coming between you and your husband and you seem to be nearing some kind of emotional point of no return. If this really is the case, you need to impress upon your husband how serious this is, and that if he wants to save the marriage, he has to deal with the situation forcefully and definitively, sooner rather than later. If he continues to insist that it's no big deal and you shouldn't be upset, you can start to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for separation, at least, and depending on how that goes, possibly divorce. I wish I could be more optomistic about the prospects here, but it's gone on long enough and you've made it clear enough already how it's affecting you, that I have to think your husband is either totally dense, or is in denial, or really doesn't care. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Keep in touch.

I'm sorry to hear that Jenni. I wish I could give you more advice, but I wouldn't know what to tell you. You definitely have a serious problem and I wish you all the luck in the world.

Your life was perfect while you were doing things the way you wanted them, and when your husband does what he wants, you want a divorce, as you have had enough of him and his friend. You want to go back to that perfection, and he likes having a best friend. I suspect while you were in perfection he was going a long to make you happy, and now he is happy and can't see why you are not going along. How about you two learning to communicate, and compromise a little, instead of being just about what you each want. This is not about his friend, but the two of you recognising each others needs and to be able to talk about your feelings and working together for your MUTUAL benefit. If it wasn't Jake coming along and exposing this glaring hole in this relationship it would have been something else, and the results would have been he same . One or the other would be pissed about what's happening. So get to the root of the problem, How you and your husband communicate with each other, and deal with each others feelings. If you don't then this relationship cannot have the honesty it needs to survive. Don't blame Jake, he not the problem, You and your husband are.

Ok, so you move out temporary, and tell him he gets to choose where his heart is.

If he wants you, then before you move back in, get counseling and work on dating again,

Your life was perfect while you were doing things the way you wanted them, and when your husband does what he wants, you want a divorce, as you have had enough of him and his friend. You want to go back to that perfection, and he likes having a best friend. I suspect while you were in perfection he was going a long to make you happy, and now he is happy and can't see why you are not going along. How about you two learning to communicate, and compromise a little, instead of being just about what you each want. This is not about his friend, but the two of you recognising each others needs and to be able to talk about your feelings and working together for your MUTUAL benefit. If it wasn't Jake coming along and exposing this glaring hole in this relationship it would have been something else, and the results would have been he same . One or the other would be pissed about whats happening. So get to the root of the problem, How you and your husband communicate with each other, and deal with each others feelings. If you don't then this relationship cannot have the honesty it needs to survive. Don't blame Jake, he not the problem, You and your husband are.

Thank you. I felt like I needed an unbiased opinion, I didn't want to hear "what I wanted to hear". I feel like I (we) need an objective point of view. I understand that if it didn't happen now, it would happen later or with another person. I made my post as generic as possible, not wanting to bore everyone that was kind enough to help me, but I feel I need to tell you a few more things. I see you're a relationship expert so I feel maybe I need to explain further.

I consider myself a "feminine tomboy". I kite surf, wake board, snow board, fish, have my own tackle box, my own rods, rig my own lines and cut my own bait. I have my vehicle maintenanced myself (take it somewhere) and even change bulbs on tail lights/headlights/etc. I have my own 4WD truck and a trailer that I use when big items are needed (recently bought a new refrigerator when my husband couldn't be present and had it home in the trailer for him to unload). I'm NOT one of those "needy clingy" wives. I bring in at least half of our income, work full time, and do my husband's bookwork on the side for his business, and am happy to do it; I'd rather do it. I can and have mowed the yard weed-eated, and changed filters in the air handler. I'M NOT NEEDY on a regular basis, but yes, sometimes I do need to feel important. I have only a handfull of "close" girlfriends because I cannot deal with the typical drama of a late20's to early 30's average female (I'm 31). THAT'S what my husband loved about me, and now tells me I've changed into a "chick" be being needy. That's just for some background.

My husband has several friends that he grew up with. Those were a lot of the people we used to hang out with. I get along with every one of them wonderfully. They're now just as much my friends as they are his (which is the way it's supposed to be, right? That's how I knew we were perfect for each other).

When the Jay situation started getting out of control, I had a couple of his friends to mention to me that we don't have time for them anymore, because we're always with Jay, they felt slighted and hurt. What really trggered a problem to me (and others) was that Jay was from a different "culture" I guess you could say, (from a different non-coastal state) and started wearing the same shoes and clothes as my husband. Started drinking/ordering the same drinks at restaurants. It even got to the point where the trashed a 2 year old water softener that needed maintenance (part replaced) to buy a brand new one exactly like my husband had just purchased. He bought my husband's boat when he bought a new one (hey, can't complain about that). I do not dislike Jay and don't blame him for our problems, I just feel like if our marriage were important enough, and their friendship was strong enough, my husband would feel comfortable in telling him, but he doesn't. That confuses me, as I thought a true friendship was unconditional and could endure anything.

The latest is that when I called Jay's wife this morning to tell her to PLEASE come and get some of these leftovers from Thanksgiving (they shared Thanksgiving with us; don't have any family here)... I left her a message telling her to call me back because I didn't want all of the food to go to waste. When she called me back, they were playing a joke on me. She told me that Jay wanted to come over and pick up leftovers, but he wouldn't come unless my husband was here. She was giggling and Jay was in the background saying "where's Paul? (my husband)...I want to see Paul.....What's Paul doing today....I have to see Paul....etc." I asked my husband if he talked to him and he said no, that he'd probably figured it out, and took up for them being disrespectful to me! I played it off with them like I was oblivious to what they were doing. Now we really have a problem if my husband doesn't back me. Help.

The latest is that when I called Jay's wife this morning to tell her to PLEASE come and get some of these leftovers from Thanksgiving (they shared Thanksgiving with us; don't have any family here)... I left her a message telling her to call me back because I didn't want all of the food to go to waste. When she called me back, they were playing a joke on me. She told me that Jay wanted to come over and pick up leftovers, but he wouldn't come unless my husband was here. She was giggling and Jay was in the background saying "where's Paul? (my husband)...I want to see Paul.....What's Paul doing today....I have to see Paul....etc." I asked my husband if he talked to him and he said no, that he'd probably figured it out, and took up for them being disrespectful to me! I played it off with them like I was oblivious to what they were doing. Now we really have a problem if my husband doesn't back me. Help.
Forgive me if the disrespect of this incident is lost on me but reading your post has brought a few things to light. I thought you were he strong independent type it shows, also a little insecure, which may lead you to control things sometimes, or at least try to, and there is hell to pay when you cannot control.


I'M NOT NEEDY on a regular basis, but yes, sometimes I do need to feel important.

If you think this doesn't speak volumes, I'll eat my hat. I think all couples after a few years take each other for granted and forget to give our partners what they need. Honest communication is always needed. I will caution you though that perceived sleights are best handled by you directly, as what you see as disrespectful may not be intended. To have your husband back you up, is asking him to be in your head, and see things as you do. Its all about YOUR need to feel important and a need to control, as I see it. I think your husband rebels every now and then to keep his manhood intact and show you he will not be controlled by you .

Another thing that stands out is the conversation with your friends about not seeing them so much, and sorry, I have to think if your husband was missing them he would do something about it, he hasn't so I can conclude that he is doing what he wants to do, and it is pissing you off. Calm down and better communicate with hubby and accept him as he is and take responsibility for your own happiness. You can control yourself but no one else. If you need more time and attention from your husband drop the drama and talk to him directly and HONESTLY. Sorry, about the bluntness, finesse is not my forte', but I hope I've helped.

Your sarcasm was not lost on me and the expert title is only a title. My opinion though is honest and.. . free.

WOW what a situation and it reminds me of one the AMHD had a month ago or so that included a gal named "binxx".

I understand where you are coming from and feel for you, I felt I was in a situation like that before, but I talked with my husband about it and we resolved it. It seems as though you have tried to talk to him about this -- to no avail.

I feel it was rude on Jay and his wife's part to "mock" you like they did--not cool. But I would be a little suspicious that your husband "didn't" talk to them, bu they know. Hmmm

I personally wouldn't like a friend like that either, every night after work, all weekend long, too too much time together.

I would question what is going on with your husband. Maybe the "swing both way" idea, I'm not sure about that. Maybe he is at a point in his life that hanging out with friends is where he wants to be?

Do you have children? If so is he helping with them? If not, maybe you need to be less available to him, do your own thing, as hard as that might be. Come up with your own friends w/o him... an idea.

If you talk to him and he chooses his friend, then maybe there is nothing you can do.

You need to talk to him again, seriously, and let him know how extremely upset this situation is making you.

Good luck.

The problem isn't between anyone except you and your husband and to see it any other way is a mistake. If one person is chronically unhappy in a relationship, then the relationship is not working well. I see lots of disrespecting and ignoring of boundaries in this one. I think its time to have a really frank talk about it with your husband-- meeting the needs of others first is okay until it crosses a line. Repeated misplaced loyalties are not the same thing and are actually a form of betrayal. Start by talking about that. Make it clear to him this is serious -- he may see you as strong and has a hard time believing you are seriously affected -- I know I can be mistaken by others like that. If he can't see that your needs aren't being met, then it may be time to set up a trial separation. That last bit has wrong written all over it---I would make it clear that if they want to play three against one, I am out of the game. And then I really would be out the door. I have lost friends this same way but my feeling is with friends like that, I am better off alone.

That last bit has wrong written all over it---I would make it clear that if they want to play three against one, I am out of the game. And then I really would be out the door. I have lost friends this same way but my feeling is with friends like that, I am better off alone.


Exactly Val.

Forgive me if the disrespect of this incident is lost on me but reading your post has brought a few things to light. I thought you were he strong independent type it shows, also a little insecure, which may lead you to control things sometimes, or at least try to, and there is hell to pay when you cannot control.

If you think this doesn't speak volumes, I'll eat my hat. I think all couples after a few years take each other for granted and forget to give our partners what they need. Honest communication is always needed. I will caution you though that perceived sleights are best handled by you directly, as what you see as disrespectful may not be intended. To have your husband back you up, is asking him to be in your head, and see things as you do. Its all about YOUR need to feel important and a need to control, as I see it. I think your husband rebels every now and then to keep his manhood intact and show you he will not be controlled by you .

Another thing that stands out is the conversation with your friends about not seeing them so much, and sorry, I have to think if your husband was missing them he would do something about it, he hasn't so I can conclude that he is doing what he wants to do, and it is pissing you off. Calm down and better communicate with hubby and accept him as he is and take responsibility for your own happiness. You can control yourself but no one else. If you need more time and attention from your husband drop the drama and talk to him directly and HONESTLY. Sorry, about the bluntness, finesse is not my forte', but I hope I've helped.

Your sarcasm was not lost on me and the expert title is only a title. My opinion though is honest and...... .free.

And I still thank you, and everyone. What are you referring to as sarcasm? Details?? I am PROUD t be independent, and don't see it as "controlling". I am responsible for my OWN happiness. My husband would be happy to help me in a lot of the things that I do, but I choose not to "weigh him down" as I see a lot of female friends do; and their husbands end up resenting them in the long run.

As far as communication goes, HOW BETTER can I communicate than by saying that I feel that "I'm jealous over your friend and I'm doing my best to explain it"; will you please take me fishing instead of him?" "I respect your friendship, but when I'm having a good time at a birthday party where I"m meeting new people and socializing with old friends, will you please stop telling him on the phone that you're trying to break away so that you can be with him?"

While Jay's wife was overseas, his lawn was LITERALLY over knee high needing to be mowed... several times... while he was choosing to help my husband with "hobbie projects". Maybe you see this as a normal friendship, but I see it as negligence. Does your wife work? Do you have a wife? I'm sure you're seen as "head of household" , arent' you? Thought so. Marriage is 50/50 in my opionion. There's a phrase we refer to when describing men like you: (and I'm sure you're a man)... it's called "little man's syndrome". You remind me of Jay, so no wonder you're so biased towards the male spectrum. Take it as you'd like, expert. Don't bother posting any further insults, I'm not in you're league, so don't waste your time. You see, I don't NEED a man, I just love my husband and my marriage.

I am going to ad my 2 cents worth. I see that there is a problem here, a BIG problem. I am wondering if you are so controlling in nature that Jay is your husband's escape.

It sounds to me like your husband needs a friend. Jay began to try and be like your husband, flattery. Maybe Jay had no one, considering his wife was overseas for a while. Maybe Jay had no family to lean on. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I believe I read that Jay was new to the area.

The guy had no one, no family, no friends, and his wife was overseas. He found comfort in your husband. Comfort that he was not given anywhere else. Sounds to me like he looks up to your husband, you should be proud that you have a man that is worth being looked up to.

Now... I would not want Jay around all the time either. I do understand your point, as I dealt with that a long time ago. Maybe your husband is not getting the friendship from you that he longs for.

If marriage is 50/50 and you are not getting your 50%, then maybe you should tell your husband that since Jay is more important than you that Jay can move in because you are moving out.

If you are having problems with Jay, you never should have phoned his house to offer leftovers, you never should have invited them for dinner.

You come here with such and important problem, but don't you see that by asking them to dinner, calling offering leftovers, you are just adding fuel to the fire? It does not seem as though you are serious if you keep such close contact with him and his wife.

When Jay is over it might be good to tell him "time to cut the apron strings" you would like some time alone with your husband. Be flirty with your hubby, give him some attention, make yourself irresistible to him.

Apparently he is getting something, whether sexual in nature or not, from Jay that he is not getting from you.

You remind me of Jay, so no wonder you're so biased towards the male spectrum. Take it as you'd like, expert. Don't bother posting any further insults, I'm not in you're league, so don't waste your time. You see, I don't NEED a man, I just love my husband and my marriage.
Not my intention to insult, and I really wish I was wrong, but I think you proved my point, so I guess this is my hell to pay. You may be mad at me now ,but when you calm down you'll think about it and see that sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward, and when you can talk TO your husband not at him, you may have some positive results to pass on to us. Till then..!



My husband has several friends that he grew up with. Those were a lot of the people we used to hang out with. I get along with every one of them wonderfully. They're now just as much my friends as they are his (which is the way it's supposed to be, right? That's how I knew we were perfect for each other).

If things where as perfect as you would have us believe then explaian why Jake has taken over and your husband has kicked the friends you get along with so pefectly to the curb?

Again instead of being mad at strangers you would be much better served getting to the bottom of your relationship with your husband. Talk!

I agree that your husband's friendship with Jay is taking too much time and energy away from your marriage. Whether that's because they're closeted gay guys, or because your husband feels smothered or controlled by you, or for some other reason, it's impossible for us (and maybe for you) to judge. And when the chips are down, it doesn't really matter. If your husband won't even acknowledge it's a problem, much less get counselling or even talk it through with you, there isn't much left for you to do is there? It takes two to communicate and work through problems in a marriage. If he won't participate, you either adapt to the situation and learn to accept it, or you leave him and take your lumps. Your choice, your decision.

Thank you! Jay lived in the area for 2 years before moving into the neighborhood. I feel like I HAVE to do things with them to keep my marriage intact, they're just an extension of us now, and there's nothing I can do about it short of leaving. I asked them over to get the leftovers because they'd brought a lot of the food. My husband thinks the only way is to completely cut ties with him, and I don't think that's the answer, I think it's running from the problem, whatever it may be. He'd rather run from it than deal with it head-on.

When Jay bought our old boat, my husband told him he could keep it at our dock (Jay doesn't have water access at his house). So regardless, he's in and out of our drive way a lot. This summer I asked Jay to keep his boat in another spot so I could get my wave runner in and out easily, and he wouln't do it unless my husband told him. When I called him to ask him he replied with "I'll do it when I can get with Paul...." I said, "no, I need it moved when you come home so that I can go for a ride today, it's beautiful outside". He even offered to come and move the boat to let me get out, but was going to put it right back in the same spot---then how could I get back in? Paul wouldn't even tell him to keep his boat at another spot for ME to get out easily in fear of hurting his feelings, and it's not even his damn property! THat was the start of another raging fight this summer.

I DO think he's getting something from him that he's not getting from me, which is companionship, because I choose not to go places with him much anymore due to having to always be around Jay (most of the time). I'm tired of "competing". Our relationship isn't as strong as I once thought it was. This weekend he was so nervous because Jay called several times and he stayed home all weekend. He didn't return most of his calls. My husband felt sorry for him. I think my husband lied to him about where we were going Saturday night so that he wouldn't show up-----I feel that Jay is obviously more important, because apparently "I'm the one with the problem" per my husband, and the fact that he is protecting Jay so much to keep from hurting his feelings. I don't feel that a true friend has to be lied to; you should be able to talk to them without worrying. That's how my friends are, if they want to come over or call during a time when we need "time alone" or down time, I just tell them and they understand! What's so hard about saying, "not tonight, we just need some time to ourselves; it's been a tough week at work"? In a nutshell: the reason I feel like I'm competing is because Thursday morning, I told my husband that I didn't call him on his birthday or come by to take him to lunch because Jay was there helping him all day, and he would have had to tag along and we'd been arguing about him; it would have been uncomfortable. So, I told him that Jay got the privilege of taking him to lunch. He responded with, "well, maybe you would have, but you didn't come in and help me at work...Jay came in and started sweeping floors and helped me all day". Do I need to "kiss his butt" like him? I feel I do my part! I work full time AND do his bookwork/payroll at night! I go in there in weekends sometime and clean his office! See, I'm catching myself already trying to "compete"! I've never felt threatened until now, and that's how I feel in "compete mode". I feel like I'm back in high school with this pettyness. Anyway all the information I've received here has been extremely helpful in dealing with this. I never thought in a million years this would have happened. I just find it hard to believe that Jay is not the problem---not the "person"---but the fact that my husband is letting that "person" destroy our marriage. Or maybe I'm destroying their friendship, and he sees it on the flip-side. WHich is it?

I just find it hard to believe that Jay is not the problem---not the "person"---but the fact that my husband is letting that "person" destroy our marriage. Or maybe I'm destroying their friendship, and he sees it on the flip-side. WHich is it?
There it is. Your husband is causing the problem. And you are tolerating it. It will take the two of you getting to the bottom of it in order to solve it. I would be willing to bet that Jay is simply a side symptom, a scapegoat so to speak, a way for both of you to deflect it onto ANYONE but you. Until you get at what it is, it won't be solved which you have already consistently and amply demonstrated. If more talk about Jay this and Jay that would solve, it would be solved by now, wouldn't it? You can't seem to face that its your husband, not Jay and your husband can't seem to tell you why he favors Jay over you. And I wonder why that is? Until you know that, you will go round and round in this, I am afraid.

Thanks for coming back Jenn, Personally I can't imagine any man putting his friend before his wife. And since I can't believe you have said nothing about this to your husband his reaction is too cold and uncaring. I'm as stumped about his behavior as you are to be honest, but as I see it, you can tell your husband to get out, or you can leave. Have you talked to Jakes wife? Does she know how you feel? Does she feel the same as you? Nothing at all wrong in taking action when words have failed. I see nothing wrong with him coming home with a packed bag waiting for him. It may seem extreme , but sometimes people listen better after a wake up call. I still think that the root cause of this whole thing is a complete lack of communication between the two of you and as a result, this relationship is lacking in growth and direction. Sounds like you both, are so independent, that you've sort of lost touch with each other. I really think, like most people, you've been on cruise control, and you both have your own lives, so you've started to grow apart and take the others wants and needs for granted a little. I have no doubt your husband is annoyed that your intruding in his space, and telling him what to do, but unless the two of you talk, and learn how to balance work and play and yourselves then I see much trouble. Get back on the same page, and at least now, you know that there is NO perfect in marriage, just a lot of hard work, so roll up the sleeves. I hope this help, and please let us know how things worked out. I wish you luck.

Thank you. I had to give up pride and be blunt about my feelings, which is hard to do sometimes. I'm taking it day by day for now.

I don't want to be a "leech" and suck all the knowledge, opinions, and information out of everyone here... I've tried to "give back" to the forum, but haven't come across anything I feel knowledgeable enough to comment on.

My "specialties" are respiratory therapy specializing in sleep disorders (specifically sleep apnea) (I've been licensed since 1995, and practiced until 2003, but still keep up my license), NC real estate (have been a broker and selling for almost 4 years) and last, but not least, good old fashioned coastal southern cookin' (LOVE to cook!) Let me know if anyone has questions on any of these things! :)

Forgot to answer your questions... no I've not talked to his wife; reason being she's in a high risk pregnancy currently. And of course, not wanting to bother her with this when she was overseas; she had a lot more to worry about for herself . She's depressed, sleeps all the time (most of the time when not working... before and during pregnancy), and really doesn't care to see Jay except for when she's in the mood. I think she probably likes him being with my husband, she knows that he won't be bothering her and she can sleep. He completely disrespects her a lot of the time, which is not a good influience for my husband. He refers to her as "needy, lazy, doesn't clean, etc." I try to keep my mouth shut about it thinking maybe he's venting. I wonder if they talk about their "es" like that when they're alone. I can't imagine my husband doing that, but he apparently enjoys the company of someone who does. The only thing I've tried to talk to her about is her sleeping all the time which is not normal. We're really not that close. The last thing I'm going to do is disturb her at this point. I have to smile through a baby shower I'm giving her this weekend because SHE has no friends here also. I've literally had to almost beg some of my friends to come. Jay hinted to me that she had no friends and no one to give her a shower, so of course, I happily jump to the task.

Anyway, I don't feel I should have to go that route. I know I'm "pulling weeds instead of the root". I feel the "root" is my husband not standing up to the problem, which is allowing someone (no matter WHO it is) to interfere. I know I'm to blame for some (or maybe a lot) of it; I told Jay he was always welcome when his wife went overseas----like for dinner---I shouldn't have ASSumed that he would take it literal for EVERY NIGHT AND ALL WEEKEND. You see, that's what we say here, meaning, "my home is open to you, but you should be smart enough to know your boundaries". It's understood. You see, I've tried talking. When I do, I'm over-reacting and it's just a simplefriendship. There is no "rule book" as to how many times per week is appropriate to see him, that's where my husband is confused, and I understand from that point of view. I just ask him to use "common sense" and moderation. His "fix" to the problem is to just ignore him and cut ties completely. He says "anyway, he's probably selling his boat soon because of the new baby so he'll have one less of a reason to come here".

BUT--he should know better about this: Sat. night I had a LONG LOST friend that I haven't seen in TWELVE years to come into town. I told him all day about how excited I was about seeing her again Sat. night. Jay's wife called Sat. night before hand and asked us to dinner---My husband said, "I'm all about it but I need to check with "the boss""--------holy crap??? Seeing this friend again is what I talked about ALL DAY! And I wanted her to meet my husband!!!!!!!!! We can eat with them any damn time!!!!!!!!! That way, when we didn't come for dinner, it was all my fault to them!!!!!!!!! WHY didn't he just say, "My wife has a friend coming into town she hasn't seen in ages and we're going to a get-together where she is?" I'll tell you why: because Jay knows our other friend (through us) that was having the "party" and he would have showed up, and therefore that's why he didn't tell him/them. Whenever his wife fell asleep, he would have been there, which under normal circumstances would have been fine, but this is far from normal in my opinion.

You're right, it's not about Jay. I think it's about my husband running from the problem, whatever it may be. I have very much communicated with him------I really tried to ponder of the best and "most elementary" way to explain it, which was telling him that if someone captured both Jay and myself, and tied us to a train track with a speeding train approaching, that he would rescue him first. Of course, this made him angry. I felt like I needed to simplify my feelings somehow. Of course, I know that was an extreme example, but the only way I knew how to express my feelings in a way he would possibly understand. Didn't work. I feel like I'm "beating a dead horse" but wanted to answer your questions. I think the best thing for me to do is maintain in the best emotional state I can place myself in (trust me, it's hard sometimes) and evaluate long and hard before I make any rash decisions, and do my best to keep my composure! Pray that I make it through the baby shower! :)

your resentment toward your husbands friend is not entirely misplaced.

while I agree with the posts that are trying to get you to recognize there is some failure in the marriage that your husband is trying to fill, appropriately or inappropriately, and that this failure is key to understanding if your marriage can be salvaged, be a little pi$$ed at jay and don't apologize.

he has a marriage too. He obviously is neglecting his wife. Ill be second in line to buy the "jay sucks" shirt... right after you. =)

anyway, that said, I guess all I'm doing is reaffirming what some others have said. You say your marriage was perfect before. It obviously wasn't perfect for your husband. He might have not been unhappy... but there's something he's getting from jay that important. Friendships are important... I think the best relationships are when two independent people with their own friends and own goals are able to merge together and still keep their own identities to some degree.

fine.

in the end your husband is not honoring the marriage. This is extreme and would pi$$ me off too. My wife goes out from time to time. I have enough trust in her that she can go out with the guys from work, play half the night, and get dropped off after I'm in bed. It doesn't happen often, but if she needs to unwind without me now and then, fine.

but if her friends invaded my life like this, it would not be OK. If this was his mother instead of a friend, what would people say here? Theyd say stick to your guns. Somehow the friendship role gets more slack than the mother-in-law...

so... yeah, you need to find out from him what the deal is. And it probably starts without ever mentioning jay. It starts with what about our marriage frustrates you? What are you missing? etc. expect some resistance. Expect it to take a few tries before he sees you are not trying to ambush him. Because if you really want to know the truth, it isn't about cornering him. Its about knowing the truth.

if he just doesn't get it, id suggest separation before divorce. It gives you both time to think about and feel what it means to be apart. You've had some time to think about it. He really hasn't... even if you've given some signs.

in the end... you are seeking help here. That means you're looking for answers. The first step. Next you need to try to get him to relax about the situation and talk... and after that, if it doesn't work, you need to take the steps needed to make yourself happy.

I think the best relationships are when two independent people with their own friends and own goals are able to merge together and still keep their own identities to some degree.

Because if you really want to know the truth, it isn't about cornering him. Its about knowing the truth.


WOW! This place is awesome. Everyone has been so helpful. Our marriage is like that, too, full of TRUST. We never tell the "other" that they (us, me/him) can't do anything or go anywhere on our own. That's part of the GLUE that keeps (kept) our marriage strong. That's why it's been so difficult about this situation. I deeply love my husband and yes, am doing my very best under the circumstances.

Whenever we talk about what he might be unhappy about, it's that I don't spend as much time with him (boating, fishing, etc.) WELL, it's because Jay is with him ALL THE TIME while doing that stuff! I'm sick of it. We owned a house boat last year that we spent ONE NIGHT ALONE on. Guess when that was: our 2nd wedding anniversary. And to get that night, we had to ask OTHER friends to take Jay out on the boat separately so we could have it alone. For the night. He/they spent the day with us, and just left that evening. My husband's reasoning for having him on the boat always is that he helps him with lines/anchoring, etc. I can't help it that I'm not "strong" and "butch". Jay is about 6'3 and 265 lbs. and strong as an ox; I'm 5'4 and 120 lbs, by no means strong physically, but feel so weak (emotionally and physically).

Jay's wife doesn't like boating/fishing like we do. About 3 weeks ago I had all my things ready to go fishing, had bought new tackle the day before, etc. Another friend of my husband's (ours) was going along, which was very cool. I hadn't seen him in a while and he's SO funny and makes us laugh hysterically. THEN, guess who pulls up at the last minute to go... not only that, but the fact that our boat is small and there really wasn't enough room for all of us (Jay counts for two, he's a really big guy). So I made something up and didn't go in an attempt not to argue. All these things build up and I end up exploding from keeping it in.

I laughed so hard about the t-shirt comment. It's refreshing to place a little humor on the subject. :) THANK YOU.

There's so many other "stories" to tell, but it's not going to help. Just trying to shed light on what I'm going through (we're going through) This has been such a great outlet for me to express my feelings without arguing and I appreciate your thoughtfullness (everyone's) in helping sincerely!!

Not to be nosey, buy does your work schedules keep you from seeing each other, or from spending a lot of time together during a typical work week? At one point in my own marriage ,I would have to work evenings and she would be sleep when I got home at night, and be gone when I got up the next morning. We where basically roommates for extended lengths of time. I found myself hanging out with friends and co-workers a lot. It created a real conflict, when we would make plans and the other wasn't really up for it or had made conflicting plans.

No, we're both self employed and normally don't work evenings. We can pretty much make our own schedules, but mine seems be more difficult (as far as having to be "on call" and interrupted). I work a lot out of my home office; I tend to get more accomplished there than in my formal office. I work in real estate sales, which is stressful because I feel always at the mercy of my customers. My "motto" to new agents is: the best way to get busy in this business is to plan a trip or get sick". :) Always has worked for me! My husband would love to travel and go on trips more (even if it were just for the weekend) but my job keeps me from being able to do it a lot (last minute showings, etc.) IT's hard to plan in this business. It seems like it can be dead for weeks, and then when we plan to go somewhere it NEVER FAILS that something with my work comes up. It's actually very frustrating, especially even more that I have a lot of "high maintenance" customers at the moment. I'd love to be spontaneous and "just go" sometimes but I can't, crap, I can't even plan things most of the time. The one day I took off to go fishing with him recently one of my customers came in literally crying to the owner of the company that I worked for because the cost of something dealing with real estate was more than she expected. Makes me either want to drop it completely (real estate) sometimes or never plan anything. The only thing is I love the challenge and "the sky is the limit". I've never made as much money in my life, and I've gotten used to it. If I go back to health care my income will be cut by 2/3.

My daughter is exactly the same way, and it puts a lot of pressure on the family. Just to throw it out there, could you be a little jealous of Jake? He is more available and not on call. Having been there I can understand the attachment, not that I agree, but I do understand it.

This is just more of the "Jake this" and "Jake that", only with different labels on it. Until you get to what its really about, it won't be solved. And to get there you and your husband will need to have a sit down and talk frank experience. If you are unwilling to create that experience Jenn, then you remain stuck with pouring out endless amounts of the continuing saga stuff.. blah blah blah. So as I see it now, its as much your reluctance as it is his. This is the point where words mean very little and actions matter. Unless this is just about getting attention and there isn't a sincere interest in solving it?

OK folks... she posted the original post 6 days ago. This had been kicking around in her head a lot longer than that. She's got some things to get off her chest. This isn't a sitcom, all problems solved in 30 minutes and done. And to expect someone who is struggling to get herself centered and done that fast is unrealistic. Am I hearing that all of us have confronted and faced all problems wed had of this level within 6 days of getting advice? If so, you're better than me.

I've had my share of posts I've gotten tired of... when the poster never took action and just needed attention. It can be maddening.

but I guess I'm missing something here. jenni9 is seeking help. She is talking openly. She has some stuff to work through. We only see her side, so who is to know what we don't hear... but all I'm hearing is impatience on this board.

if I had been talked to like this after my first major crash and burn id have never come back. Yes... take some action. Sooner than later. But man... I completely don't get it here. Each "rant" has shown me a little more about what's going on... I guess I'm willing to give it a litle more time before I declare her a manipulative, attention-getter, and that's how the sum of some of the posts are coming across.

another two more weeks of talk and no action, yeah ill be right there too.

Forgive me please, if that was meant for me KP, for being so unclear. I am neither patient nor impatient, as it is not my problem and so there is little need for it to be solved for me. There is no timetable implied apart from Jenn saying she was desperate. If Jenn needs some time to think about it, why would I attempt to deny her that? I offer what I consider truthful observations meant to be helpful-- which can be agreed with or not, used or not. But sidetracking into other areas is not the same as saying I need time to think about this - and certainly someone as articulate as Jenn is capable of saying what she means (and I mean that sincerely, so please don't read sarcasm into that, okay?). If the observations I offer are hurtful, a OP only need complain and I will apologise. But if its bull some truth I have offered has crowded, then that's a different story and there won't be any apology forthcoming. I think pressure might have been read into my post when it simply was a response to what was posted - nothing more. While I can appreciate your thoughts that you gain more understanding with each post, it would be equally as fitting to appreciate that I don't have those same thoughts and my approach to solving things does work for some people. I would chalk it up to different kinds of help. ;)

Forgive me please, if that was meant for me KP, for being so unclear.

Val, I seriously don't think KP meant this post for you. I think (:confused: ) it was meant for some early-on posts that seemed to be very harsh straight away.

I have gone back and read your posts and do not see anything with a "time table" involved. I have always felt your inputs is very unbiased.

But I do agree with KP that there was some harsh words early-on, and I did feel bad for Jenn. But it seems as though the thread has come back around again to being more helpful than hurtful. :rolleyes:

Just my observations! No hard feelings towards anyone. I truly love this sight and feel I could get pretty sound advice when needed.

ok folks... all problems solved in 30 minutes and done. and to expect someone who is struggling to get herself centered and done that fast is unrealistic.

I agree with this KP. I posted in early August--and am STILL working on marriage problems-so yes, they can take a lot of time. Each situation is different and each person is at a different place with their issues.
:o

Lord have mercy. Didn't mean to get anything started, I just get to rambiling on and on and don't realize all that I've typed by the sime I hit "post". It's just an outlet that I've probably abused by now.

The next time I post about this discussion it will either be one of two things: the "root" of the problem (and what we've figured it to be) and that it's being worked through, or if it's not and over. It's as simple as that. I think all of you deserve that being you've helped me so much.

I know I "blah blah blah" and I sincerely apologize if you're disgusted by now (I can understand how you would be--truly, not being sarcastic myself), I have overstepped my boundaries with the help instead of getting to the root of the problem. I just needed to talk (type). Now, I'm going to finish my work, turn my cell phone off, and try to start digging to get to that damn root. Until next time... :)

Hey Jen, you are so welcome here and we all know that it takes time to get your bearing, but no hurry, We all go at our own pace. As you see we just speak our minds and that is the way its supposed to be. If your not disgusted neither are we
I have overstepped my boundaries. Boundaries? What boundaries? I don't see no boundaries. Do you see any boundaries?

I see no boundaries either!! :p What the heck--talk away, but be civil :rolleyes:

Later 'gaters.

Hi Everyone!

I have had WONDERFUL things happen with my marriage recently. A couple of weeks ago, the "problem" struck me like a bolt of lightning one morning while getting ready for work; it was very simply a lack or absence of loyalty to the marriage--plain and simple. The night before my husband found this site on our browser and "skimmed through" the posts, not having much time to study them. He was angry with me. That morning (when everything finally "hit home") I had adamantly made up my mind that we were going to separate and had planned to tell him when we got home from work that evening.

When he got home that evening, it was obvious that he'd intently studied what I'd wrote (my feelings) and all of the wonderful responses from you. YOU are what saved my marriage. Even though it's only been 2 weeks, it's been a 180 degree change for the better. He said he never realized it was that serious (?? ) In the meantime, the visits with "you know who" have been moderate, and his actions and body language signal to him when it's time to go home. Jay has done 3 months' work to his expecting baby's nursery in the past 2 weeks (with his wife) and has even hand made her (the baby) a beautiful dresser with her name carved in it. I"ve never seen such devotion to his wife and marriage (family) from HIM! I'm assuming that he's been talked with, or has gotten the message.

SO....a big thanks to every one of you and to this site. I never intended for him to find it; it was my way of seeking help. I'm still being very cautious; but this is a great start to a new beginning. We actually had dinner out ALONE last night; I can't remember the last time we went to dinner ALONE!!! He just seems so sincere in wanting to make a change for the better; thank you! Thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for your insight and help---maybe he needed to hear it from someone on the "outside" that it was not normal and out of control!!

So very delighted to hear y'all are back on track! Bravo to everyone who is willing to accommodate good changes -- you, your mate, even ol' what's his name! LOL Another beautiful confirmation that the truth shall and does set you free - thank you Jenn. Keep at getting more honest!

(does the "happy dance" that looks remarkably similar to the way Snoopy dances!! ) :p :p :p

Wow, this is amazingly good news! It's so nice to know when positive changes result from all our verbiage on here. It's easy to question whether it ever really changes anything for anybody. Thank you for sharing this. You're right to continue to be cautious, real changes do take time, but the prognosis sounds really good. Hats off to your husband for seeing the light and making the necessary changes.

That is awesome Jenn9!! I am so glad for you! It is nice to see bad events make a turn for the good.

There could be a few 'slips' back now and again, but hopefully it will keep getting better.

I am truly happy for you. :p

Threaten to leave him. Maybe it will wake him up. If it doesn't leave him and see how he responds to that. If he doesn't act like it bothers him start devorce proceedings and see how he likes it. It doesn't sound like he really gives a damn and you need to stun him.

Hey Wanger, I don't think you read my last post! It's on it's way to a good resolution thanks to you guys! This is actually good news believe it or not! :)

Yes the news is good and I love it when a plan comes together. Don't be a stranger though, Jen keep us posted.

Sorry Jenni, I guess I just jumped the gun. I have been married three times and I have a tendency to do that sometimes. I let my mouth overload my brain. Again, sorry and I hope it all works out for you. Mike

Awesome!! I am so happy for you Jenni!

I am in the same situation only it's my wife and her best friend who lives next door. I work full time and we have x3 kids together. When I get in from work she's straight out the door, on a weekend she is either round her friends or her fiend is round our's. I have tried to talk to her about it but she play's the guilt card on me saying that she will stop seeing her and will just sit in the house all the time.
I can't think of the last time we did anything on our own and to be honest since our intimate relationship is dead in the water. I too am in a no win situation and am starting to feel the same as you. My wife's friend is also married and it appears that our relationships have merged somewhere along the line as I can always tell when they are arguing as we always seem to be at the same time... verry strange.
I know exactly where you are coming from in relation to the third wheel but like you am unable to find a solution except to say that if my own situation continues like this it will most definitely end our marriage as I feel we are becoming flat mates as apposed to husband and wife.