Hey Folks,

Currently I have tried several different condoms, and currently use:
- Trustex Extra Large
- Magnum XL

Regular sized condoms do not fit at all.

The problem is, after intercourse, there will be an extremely deep red ring around the base of the shaft, where the condom ends.

I also occasionally feel weird pain/sensations, I presume this is due to constricted blood flow.

I was thinking of trying Durex XXL Condoms, since they are supposedly bigger than Magnum XL's, but it seems from online dimensions, they are simply longer, not wider.

Any suggestions? Or should I simply try different brands/sizes until I find one that works well.

Here are some other brands for larger sized condoms:
- Kimono MicroThin Large
- Vivid Large
- Kimono MAXX
- Durex Love

But based on the online dimensions, they seem very similar to the Trustex Extra Large.

Thanks.

Try a trash bag maybe? Sorry, just making a funny! ;) I guess I would just experiment with all different kinds and brands of XL condoms. Or maybe if you trust your partner(s) and she is on birth control you don't have to use a condom. If the birth control isn't enough, try using a spermicidal lubricant also.

Well, point of condom is not only birth control but STD prevention.

Try a trash bag maybe?? Sorry, just makin a funny! ;) I guess I would just experiment with all different kinds and brands of XL condoms. Or maybe if you trust your partner(s) and she is on birth control you don't have to use a condom. If the birth control isn't enough, try using a spermicidal lubricant also.

From my understanding, the spermicidal lubricants are practically useless and some of them actually might cause more harm than good (Lookup Nonoxynol-9 Spermicide)

I wouldn't recommend having "partner(s)", that's just asking for an STD or unwanted pregnancy!

I will simply have to try different ones, until eventually the decision can be made and discussed in a healthy relationship to have no-condom sex. (Which is something not to be taken lightly)

You are a smart man! I applaud that you are serious about your birth control and your health.

Not having a penis myself, I have a hard time recommending any one condom over another (I've also been in a monogamous relationship for 14 years--so condoms have been out the window for me for quite some time now). However--if there is a sex shop in your area, I really recommend going in and talking to whoever is behind the counter. If it's a GOOD shop, their employees will be polite, discreet, and knowledgeable of their products.

And believe me--they've heard it ALL.

First, let me also applaud the seriousness of your approach to the subject. If you read a few of these posts you'll understand how refreshing an adult honest question is.

As for the deep red ring, I'm assuming that it's from the rolled up end? Have you considered completely unrolling the condom? Yes it may leave a five gallon reservoir tip but that can be adjusted. Trimming the ring at the bottom may help as well, but that could cause some concerns with slippage.

The other question would be how long does it stay on? Even socks that fit will leave a ring if you wear them for too long.

I appreciate everyone's applauds, it's always seemed like being "responsible" about my health and sexuality was a hard path to follow, but I'm becoming more comfortable that I make the right decisions.

I never tried unrolling the condom completely, I thought you were supposed to simply roll it to the base of the penis and leave it there. (In order for it to stay in place better). I might give that a try to see.

Well, I don't quite want to say how long it stays on, because you probably wouldn't believe me. But I can say, even if its only on for 5 minutes and I take it off for inspection, I run into the problem. So length of time doesn't seem to matter, other than making it more red.

[QUOTE=CarrotTalker;2201657] (In order for it to stay in place better). QUOTE]

That's the slippage issue I was referring to. You might try that or other adjustments alone where there's no risk of accident.

Ask your Pharmacist for a recommendation - I trust this isn't one of those troll questions that my late husband got asked in his Pharmacy on a very regular basis.

In those cases it was called "bragging rights."

I have always found that well built men have no need to advertise and can figure these problems out by themselves.

Ask your Pharmacist for a recommendation - I trust this isn't one of those troll questions that my late husband got asked in his Pharmacy on a very regular basis.

In those cases it was called "bragging rights."

I have always found that well built men have no need to advertise and can figure these problems out by themselves.

I don't think the pharmacist would be much help because at almost every store (at least in my area), the only Large/XL they carry is the Trojan Magnum XL.

It seems that I was on the right track with simply trying the other brands until I find one that I can work with.

Well I will mention about them being "tight" of course many men wear (rings" that are very tight to keep the erection lasting longer. And to be honest have when using them as an example, put standard comdoms over large cucumbers and the such to show how to use them.

I don't think the pharmacist would be much help because at almost every store (at least in my area), the only Large/XL they carry is the Trojan Magnum XL.

It seems that I was on the right track with simply trying the other brands until I find one that I can work with.


If you are beyond XL they can special order - not the least bit unusual for these orders to be placed.

If you are beyond XL they can special order - not the least bit unusual for these orders to be placed.

How does that work? Sizing and such? What brand is it?

On the site I normally order from, they used to have custom sizing, but they discontinued it due to defective merchandise. Scary!

I also found some random sites that sell "custom sized" condoms, but none of them seemed that trustworthy to me.

You ask your Pharmacist for recommendations and order an assortment.

You ask your Pharmacist for recommendations and order an assortment.

I am really surprised that this is an option.

I even talked to a doctor about my situation and he did not offer much advice. Kind of makes me concerned that the pharmacist will just look at me strangely.

I am really surprised that this is an option.

I even talked to a doctor about my situation and he did not offer much advice. Kinda makes me concerned that the pharmacist will just look at me strangely.


This has turned into a blog - that being said, my late husband was a Doctor of Pharmacy. He owned/operated several pharmacies. As I keep saying, yours is NOT an unusual question.

Nothing shocks Pharmacists. Will he/she look at you strangely? I have no idea why he/she should. They are, after all, medical professionals.

This has turned into a blog - that being said, my late husband was a Doctor of Pharmacy. He owned/operated several pharmacies. As I keep saying, yours is NOT an unusual question.

Nothing shocks Pharmacists. Will he/she look at you strangely? I have no idea why he/she should. They are, after all, medical professionals.

I am very disappointed in your quite rude response.

How is me saying "I even talked to a doctor about my situation and he did not offer much advice." turning it into a blog?

That's me saying, I'm skeptical because a Doctor, had NO IDEA when I was asking him! And he is a medical professional.

Edit: I don't think I need any additional information, I feel I'm on the right track. I was interested in hearing more about the pharmacy option, but was skeptical because of how doctors I spoke with would react to me.

Since you didn't believe Judy the first time she told you, you consider her more explicit and emphatic answer rude?

I am gratified that you seem to be saying you won't trouble us again, just like all the other children that get mad when they don't get the answers they want.

A last word - Sterilization will solve your condom problem.

I think both of you are ignoring that I spoke with my doctor about this, and he had no idea.

Sterilization solves not getting girls pregnant, but doesn't do anything for STD's! That would be a pretty dumb and risky move on anyone's part.

I think that checking with a pharmacist is a good idea, and I think it's good that you're getting clarification when you're not sure of someone's answer.

Let's all keep in mind that the OP doesn't seem to be questioning whether our answers are legit--he seems to be looking for clarification. Let's ALL not get rude.

This site has a size chart/list for several common condom brands. Measure the circumference of the base of your penis, and go from that measurement. Just wrap a piece of string around the base and see how long the string is.

CONDOM SIZE CHART (http://condommonologues.com/condom-size-chart/)

Well, since you CAN put a regular size condom over your head without it breaking... ever see the comic skits?

Hell, to get a laugh I put my arm in one once... and I'm NOT a small guy.

Maybe its actually more about a low grade sensitivity to latex.

Can we PLEASE treat this like a real question?

Yes, you can get your whole head or arm into a condom--they ARE stretchy. Rubber bands are stretchy too. I once took a rubber band and stretched it by hooking one end under my toes and the other end stretched above my head with my hands.

It STILL left a red ring around my wrist when I put it there later.

Stretchy doesn't mean it's not going to be tight around an appendage when allowed to relax down to the size of that appendage.

Any FURTHER attempts to not treat this as a serious question will be removed.

Please don't think that I am making light of your situation, quite the opposite. However, the latex sensitivity may be on target here.

Just a thought form the critical thinking skills of a registered nurse, so bear with me, okay.

The sheath of the condom is thin, very thin. While the base of the condom is thicker in comparison and "rolled."

It is very possible that since the base of your penis comes in contact with a higher grade/percentage of latex that you may be developing an allergy. Latex allergies develop over time, typically with long term use. Many nurses and doctors get latex allergies simply by wearing latex gloves on a daily basis.

Now this may NOT be the problem here, but it is worth a thought.

Has this always happened to you or is this a newer occurrence?

J_9, I appreciate your mature response. I can tell its critical thinking, not something else.

I was thinking it could be a latex allergy, I previously looked up some of the symptoms and felt they did not portray my situation. Such as a skin rash (similar to poison ivy), hypersensitivity, or bee sting like reactions.
I could very well be missing some though.

I felt it was generally due to tightness/restricted blood flow.

I use latex gloves on occasion, such as when cleaning around the house (I find dust gives me allergic reactions), and I haven't noticed any type of reaction to the gloves.

This red ring has kind of always happened, its complicated, let me explain below:

I was never sexually active until the past 1-2 years.
I thought I had a condition called phimosis for years (just the thought of the pain makes me cringe), but I went to my pediatrician about it (as a teen) and a urologist (because I started to get Urinary Tract Infections), both of them said NOTHING was wrong!! (This taught me doctors/adults/people don't always know all the answers)

Finally, after research on my own and some discussions with my girlfriend at the time, I decided to see another urologist. (Since I was getting UTI's again and the pain was high). He determined after a few evaluations that I did indeed have Phimosis and performed a circumcision.

Over about 6 months, as my body healed, the red ring situation became more and more prevalent, I assume because I could now stretch more than before.

I know this is almost TMI (Too much Information!), but I figured it would be an interesting read for you.

As a side note, I spoke about my experience with a few close friends, one of them said he was experiencing similar pain, and said he would get evaluated too.

CT... It's never TMI for me. The more the better.

Now, I did miss the part where you were uncircumcised until recently.

Between you and I... and the whole world, my husband jokes that he's not very long but "bigger around than a can of corn." It's not private info, it's a guy thing he tells all his friends.

I do want to commend you on trying to stay STD free and prevent pregnancy. It's very admirable this day and age.

I am also very impressed that you are your own advocate for your own health. If I trusted all doctors before I became a nurse, I'd be dead now due to breast cancer. Always do your own research, and find a doctor that will listen.

I will be honest with you in that I don't know too much about condoms because I have been in 2 relationships... both men I've been married to.

Is this something you feel comfortable discussing with your urologist?

I didn't mention the uncircumcised until recently simply because it wasn't too relavent at the time.

I would have no reserves talking to the urologist about it, but I moved away from the area he was in.

I still think the best option is to try different brands and look into more "custom" sized options.

Thanks for your feedback :)

I really wish I could help you more. To be perfectly honest, and as a medical professional this is quite embarrassing, I did not realize that there was that much of a difference in size of condoms... see me blush and open my textbooks again.

I really wish I could help you more. To be perfectly honest, and as a medical professional this is quite embarrassing, I did not realize that there was that much of a difference in size of condoms........see me blush and open my textbooks again.

Don't feel bad :D But at least we learned something new today.

If you look at the Condom Size Chart (http://condommonologues.com/condom-size-chart/) that hheath541 posted. Scroll to the length and circumference data, this isn't quite an issue that comes up for the majority of people.

I really wish I could help you more. To be perfectly honest, and as a medical professional this is quite embarrassing, I did not realize that there was that much of a difference in size of condoms........see me blush and open my textbooks again.

I can tell you stories, while I might not be as well hung as CT here, I have a greater girth then most it would seem.

I started with Normal sized condoms, because I was new and my Ex-wife wasn't on BC yet. Yea... for the two weeks I had to do that, it wasn't fun. I was getting much the same results that CT was having. The bloody things were so tight that they would cut off circulation to my penis. I had the red ring and by time I was done, and she was as well, it was the colouring of my penis was off.

She then went off BC and we tried the Trojan Large. They worked well. They would fit nicely, and snugly on my penis. I wasn't getting any marks on my penis for the most part. The problem with putting them in a balloon type object is that the constriction, as small as it might be, is enough to cause some slight discolouration after a half-hour or so.

I have been using the Trojan Magnum XLs and they have been working wonders. They are thin enough to a good amount of sensation, but have a good amount of protection as well.

There is a good amount of variation between the different condoms. It might be worthwhile to talk to someone at a Adult Store to see what they can get in. As well you might want look into the Female condom as well.

Hope something in that morass of a comment helps.

Don't feel bad :D But at least we learned something new today.

If you look at the Condom Size Chart (http://condommonologues.com/condom-size-chart/) that hheath541 posted. Scroll to the length and circumference data, this isn't quite an issue that comes up for the majority of people.

Not to change the subject... but you should see some of the boy babies I've delivered! :eek::eek::eek::eek:

CarrotTalker (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/carrottalker.html) disagrees: The rate of condom breakage for correctly used condoms was 1.34% and of slippage 2.05%, with a total failure rate of 3.39%. penis circumference and broken condoms were strongly correlated, with larger sizes increasing the rate of breakage.


Well, if you are going to break the rules regarding Reddies... I'd like to know where those stats come from and how they relate to the comment I posted. Manhandle a ballon and it will break upon intion... treat it right and it will stay inflated until the air leaks out days later.

More break from mishandling and poor storage than defect.

And unless you are a real needled*k. Condoms do fit quite snuggly. Or they would slip off all too frequently.

Let's follow Synnen's advice and "Can we PLEASE treat this like a real question?"

See post #22: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/condom-size-deep-red-ring-around-base-440429-3.html#post2206104

Wikipedia is not seen as a reliable resource for anything other than pop culture. Anyone can edit the site and add, subtract, or change any data they want to.

Let's follow Synnen's advice and "Can we PLEASE treat this like a real question?"

See post #22: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/condom-size-deep-red-ring-around-base-440429-3.html#post2206104
AND you have not responded to your violation of board rules pertaining to "Reddies"

You posted a reddie for a persopnal opinion... which is against the rules. Only for factualy incorrect advice. I posted NO factually incorrect information in that post I made. Prove otherwise. I have 3,136 posts here, I take every one of them seriously... you have 57.

A simple. "I'm sorry, I will be more careful in the future" from you would have been an appropriate response. Not a dodge.

And I do take a personal affront to that, particularly since you dodged the issue rather than responding.

Or is this really about something else other than a real and serious post as some others already suspect?

Good idea asking pharmacist. They actually know more about medicine then some doctors I have met !

Tick

Let's follow Synnen's advice and "Can we PLEASE treat this like a real question?"

See post #22: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adult-sexuality/condom-size-deep-red-ring-around-base-440429-3.html#post2206104

This goes for you too, though. People are trying to help you, and treating them nicely goes a long way towards getting good advice. Smoothy is correct that "disagrees" are given only for factually incorrect advice--giving one for an opinion is against site rules.

What I can't understand is this thread re condoms has be answered by several really exceptional forum experts and it is still on going.

Maybe OP doesn't find the information he has received acceptable in any way, which I think is strange.

I have never known a man who can't source his own condoms correctly. So you are well endowed and need something bigger. Ask your pharmacist as Judy suggested.

And please follow the rules here. We are all volunteers putting in our valuable time to help people out.

Tick

My poor husband has the same problem... hmmm maybe that's why I'm 13 weeks pregnant.

Question... are you with a single sex partner or do you have multiple partners? The reason I ask is because if you have a single sex partner, maybe you could try female condoms. Just a suggestion:) Also, it does look like you were right about the durex xxl being a smaller width.

If you folks look at the previous page, me, J_9, and CravenMorhead were all having a serious discussion about the topic.

I feel that if smoothy had a problem with the bad reputation, he should private message me or a moderator to clarify the rules about reputation. Not try to instigate a flame war in a thread that has been told to stay on topic. Why should I respond to something off-topic on the thread, when a moderator previously said not to? It's the internet folks, take a chill pill.

I have treated several people throughout this thread with respect, I cannot say the same for those people who think there is some "ulterior" motive. If you look at most of my posts, they are thought out and trying to address my questions about the issue. I found a lot of the responses useful and I agreed with most of them, I am not sure why I am being told I find them unacceptable. I would suggest people slowly read the thread over next time and see that I was simply requesting clarification, due to my previous experiences of doctors having no idea!

Just because it is an issue that effects a smaller percentage of men, does not mean it's not an issue that should be discussed. Just because some people don't think its an issue or that it is a very black/white issue, does not mean that is the case.

Ask your pharmacist.

If you folks look at the previous page, me, J_9, and CravenMorhead were all having a serious discussion about the topic.

I feel that if smoothy had a problem with the bad reputation, he should private message me or a moderator to clarify the rules about reputation. Not try to instigate a flame war in a thread that has been told to stay on topic. Why should I respond to something off-topic on the thread, when a moderator previously said not to? It's the internet folks, take a chill pill.

I have treated several people throughout this thread with respect, I cannot say the same for those people who think there is some "ulterior" motive. If you look at most of my posts, they are thought out and trying to address my questions about the issue. I found a lot of the responses useful and I agreed with most of them, I am not sure why I am being told I find them unacceptable. I would suggest people slowly read the thread over next time and see that I was simply requesting clarification, due to my previous experiences of doctors having no idea!

Just because it is an issue that effects a smaller percentage of men, does not mean it's not an issue that should be discussed. Just because some people don't think its an issue or that it is a very black/white issue, does not mean that is the case.

You should have been aware of the rules. They are clearly posted. I was making sure you and other newbies reading the thread were aware of them too. You weren't alone in having done that. It benefits YOU by having it pointed out, but it also benefits OTHERS who also weren't aware of it in the future. I and most others here don't PM or Email members we don't have personal information to exchange with.

And most other members here would have the very same problem with an improperly given bad reputation.

And keep in mind... respect does go both ways... if you want it you have to give it as well. Same with atitude, and I detect more than a small amount in that area. As was said.. we are volunteers... we are glad to help.. we are glad to help for free... so check the attitude at the door, and you will likely get a lot less back. This isn't High school or even college and whatever the advice that is needed... you can be rest assured you aren't the first to have experienced it ( and that's meant in the broadest of terms to everyone).


Late edit: This isn't personal... so lets not make it that way and keep it friendly.

ENOUGH!

From both of you, enough!

Stick to the topic at hand, or I'll close the thread.

Put some cotton under the top rim. It should still be tight enough to stay on.

There is a good amount of variation between the different condoms. It might be worthwhile to talk to someone at a Adult Store to see what they can get in. As well you might want look into the Female condom as well.

Hope something in that morass of a comment helps.



Why would you recommend that OP speak to a clerk in an adult store as opposed to a Pharmacist with access to many, many brands of condoms, someone who isn't locked into selling only the brand that that particular adult store carries?

On the same topic I don't know why a Physician was uncomfortable discussing this with the OP - I dated a Physician (and relied on him for info for this site many times) and NOTHING surprised or shocked him. He and his friends drew medical diagrams on tablecloths and had conversation during dinner which I couldn't believe. Same with my late husband.

Change Physicians and/or Pharmacists.

/shrug

I'd suggested an adult store as well, Judy. Believe it or not, a well stocked, well-managed store will have terrific employees that KNOW their products--and condoms are pretty much a staple at an adult store.

Why is that any less valid than a pharmacist or physician for brand names?

That's like having to ask your doctor or pharmacist for which brand of band-aid to use, and NOT taking the word of a mother of young children which works best for her, in my opinion.

On the same topic I don't know why a Physician was uncomfortable discussing this with the OP .

Me neither, but that was my experience with 2 general physicians and 1 urologist.

:confused:

Wait, not all doctors know everything? :eek:

Why would you recommend that OP speak to a clerk in an adult store as opposed to a Pharmacist with access to many, many brands of condoms, someone who isn't locked into selling only the brand that that particular adult store carries?

I have found that superstores, wal-marts, pharmacies, and Sex Shops all have reasonably similar product. I have also found that Sex Shops also carry some different brands, which do vary from store to store. Also, as Synnen mentioned, a well managed Sex Shop will usually have well educated clerks. If they know their product, and they usually do, then they might have equally valid knowledge as well as more of a 'consumer reaction' to their product.

Also, getting information from multiple sources is always preferable to information from a single source. As always these my opinions and advice; your mileage may vary.


On the same topic I don't know why a Physician was uncomfortable discussing this with the OP - I dated a Physician (and relied on him for info for this site many times) and NOTHING surprised or shocked him. He and his friends drew medical diagrams on tablecloths and had conversation during dinner which I couldn't believe. Same with my late husband.

Different people, different hangups.

/shrug

I'd suggested an adult store as well, Judy. Believe it or not, a well stocked, well-managed store will have terrific employees that KNOW their products--and condoms are pretty much a staple at an adult store.

why is that any less valid than a pharmacist or physician for brand names?

That's like having to ask your doctor or pharmacist for which brand of band-aid to use, and NOT taking the word of a mother of young children which works best for her, in my opinion.



Because I was married to a Pharmacist why owned Pharmacies - and I don't just defend Pharmacists without cause.

No kickbacks, no push to carry a certain brand, stock gets turned over often, has access to salespeople for many lines, many sizes. I realize condoms are a staple at adult stores. I find the reasons for recommending one brand over another may very well be different - particularly when clerks are on a commission - than a Pharmacist or Doctor.

Likewise when it comes to health products I go to a Doctor or a Pharmacist and ask for recommendations. Yes, I may ask friends and acquaintances but I want to know what is recommended first.

I do find it amusing - and I know it happens - that "people" are reluctant to discuss condoms with Physicians and, apparently, Pharmacists, people with years of training and education, but have no problem asking the same question to a clerk in an adult store. Physicians and Pharmacists (and it isn't important in this case) cannot reveal patient names; ever had the clerk at the local adult store say "hi" to you at the supermarket? I have.

"Who was that?" "Oh, just the clerk at the adult store." "Really?"

Seems backwards to me to ask the Clerk - but, again, I was married to a Doctor of Pharmacy. Same with no embarrassment when speaking to a clerk but the Doctor/Pharmacist would be shocked -

I realize I'm off topic so I'll wave good-bye.

I wanted to provide everyone with an update.

I spoke to a pharmacist today and spoke with two pharmacists (they were not busy).

The pharmacist told me they do not have any type of more "custom sized" or "larger sized" condoms. He would be able to order me something if I knew the brand. He told me they do not have a list of brands or types. (So I would have to know exactly what I needed) He recommended I look at something like consumer reports for their suggestion of condoms.

I will try a few more different pharmacies to see the result, but it's not looking promising so far.

There is always Glad brand Force Flex

There is always Glad brand Force Flex

I believe this was already suggested :D

I believe this was already suggested :D
Oops... must have forgotten about that.

Of course there is this joke...


You can donate half of what you got to some poor genetically disadvantaged sole that has hardly anything in asia... and make two people happy. :D


Actually that's a play on a joke my wife actually uses with her large breasted friends when they complaim about their back, etc...

There is always Glad brand Force Flex


Would you recommend draw string or the kind with handles that tie? :D

I spoke to another pharmacist today, got the same answer.
Basically they only carry what is on the shelf, they do not have anything different I could order.

I will try different brands from an online store to see how that works out.

My concern is, does the deep red ring cause some type of damage, since it is restricting blood flow?

Sometimes I felt a deep pain for 10-15 minutes after removing the condom.

I honestly don't think there really isn't a concern... because you aren't leaving it on for hours on end.

Consider the function of C**k rings... which do constrain blood flow for limited periods BY DESIGN with no ill effects.

I still think it might be a low grade sensitivity to the latex... with the increased pressure at that point might be the cause.

And then some people are just hypersensitive to pressure... like elastic in underwear, pants... bra straps etc... I've actually known people like that.

Would you recommend draw string or the kind with handles that tie? :D

Handles... tie them beind your butt.. and never have to experience the fear and panic of an "OH MY GOD, when did that condom come off :eek:" moment, usually noticed after its too late to have served its function.


And who here (that has been active for more than a couple years anyway) hasn't experienced that at least once.

Handles.....tie them beind your butt..and never have to experience the fear and panic of an "OH MY GOD, when did that condom come off :eek:" moment, usually noticed after its too late to have served its function.


And who here (that has been active for more than a couple years anyway) hasn't experienced that at least once.

Me. NEVER had the condom come off without taking it off deliberately. Granted, part of the reason it took me YEARS to have an orgasm during sex is directly linked to worrying about (and watching to make sure!) that the condom hadn't fallen off. Hard to orgasm when you can't relax about it :)

Me. NEVER had the condom come off without taking it off deliberately. Granted, part of the reason it took me YEARS to have an orgasm during sex is directly linked to worrying about (and watching to make sure!) that the condom hadn't fallen off. Hard to orgasm when you can't relax about it :)Seriously?


Hell, over the last 32 years I've been active I remember it happening 4 times... 2 of them it wasn't noticed until after the magic moment.

But I do guess if you were constantly watching you would have caught it right away.

I can say neither of us (different people each time) were focused on that at the time. And there was world class panic usually from HER (I paniced but somewhat less)at that point more often than not.