I really don't know what to do! When I was 19 I broke up with a guy who was emotionally and physically abusive. I was down to nothing. No self esteem. No friends. No family support. I ended up clubbing with my friends a bit and met a new guy at a club. Eager to sooth my emotional pain I started seeing him. He seemed OK at first and we had been seeing each other for 2 weeks. He would constantly make remarks about other girls being so hot etc etc. and our time was always scheduled around him. I didn't love it, but thought that's just how it was whenseeing someone. Anyway, he started to get pushy telling me I had to either go out with him or I couldn't speak to him anymore because he was sick of girls messing him around. I was really delicate at that stage and just needed a friend, or at least tp take things slow (he knew about my relationship breakdown as a friend told him).
I stupidly said yes. He would pressure me to sleep at his house and lie to my family because of it. I would, because I was stupid! So by now we were exclusive. He would still catch up with girls he had just met at work etc. for coffee... I forced myself to be OK with this. He would talk about how they liked him. Still, I was OK. Then one night he said to me 'you have to go home now because I'm going out' and had this smirk on his face. I wanted to ask who with but didn't because I didn't want to be overbearing.
the next day I saw him, he was acting weird and short. I tried to think nothing of it. I slept with him 3 times that day (which wasn't unusual) but when he wanted more and I didn't want to anymore (it was completely removed and unaffectionate and he was so grumpy with me that day) he pulled a guilt trip saying how I wasn't going to see him for a few days and I wouldn't do it again. So. Like a good girlfriend. I did. A few days later he said I would have to make a big decision. I knew what was coming, he told me he cheated and I had to forgive him or let him go with her.
I was really upset but forgave him. He said it was because I wasn't affectionate enough to him (remember I was really down at this time and so nervous to be with this new guy)... I tried to be affectionate but he was always removed and concerned with other people. Even after I forgave him he would say how beautiful this girl he cheated with was, how talkative and sweet and bubbly, and how skinny she was. (she knew he had a girlfriend and was seeing 5 other guys so can't have been that sweet!). It was mental torture for me. I was very reserved at this time in my life because I was so low, and he was making me more down. I didn't think I could hate myself more. But with him, I did..
we were in a relationship for 2 years. In this time he told me I was 'realistic shaped' and bigger than other girls and had a big bum, but he realised it wasn't 'realistic' for me to be thinner. I was 5'3 53kgs, went to gym everyday doing weights and cardio. Was very fit, not wanting to brag but in the past people had liked my fit hourglass figure. I would often get compliments from random people and would be the 'hot one' at work etc. if there was anything I was going to be confident in it was my looks (but very barely).
he tried to see her for 6 or so months. Wanted to go ice skating, I said that's fine but I wanted to come and he wouldn't let me! I thought I was reasonable for letting him be friends after what happened. He would talk about how people at work made jokes about the 2 of them being lovers etc. we would go out and he would point out 'all the beautiful girls' and some in particular. He didn't look at me. Sometimes I would catch exes just giving me a sexy look behind my back checking me out (as bf's do I guess? I see my mates bfs do it to them) but he never did that. He would not look at me in my underwear/naked. Was completely uninterested saying 'ive already seen you and know what you look like'
he would say his friends are 'lucky bastards' because they are in dorms with dancers at uni (I was also a dancer! But he didn't recognise that). He would say he loves how low girls knickers and jeans are on them. I was like 'on me?' he would say 'no, in general'.
I would sleep with him every day 3 times a day, one week I didn't because I went on holiday and he said he often feels like cheating but won't because he is with me. He was at a music festival staying in a girls dorm when he said that. He also said 'one day if we are married I may meet someone else I'm more attracted to, that has the same interests as me (music- he wanted to be a musician... he is 27) and then have to decide to leave you. When I got back from my holiday I was hurt by that and couldn't bring myself to sleep with him. He would tell his friends 'he wasn't getting any' and would ring me up drunk saying 'i want sex'.
he would put me down in front of his mates. Would call in sick for work then ring me and expect me to do the same, or to cancel my day plans because he had for me. (this wasn't discussed, he just did it then expected it)... he was very controlling and I was very down. He would cancel nights for us 2 and go on 'boys nights' which I understood, but then would go to girls houses. When he studied music it tore my heart up because of the comments he said about meeting someone else. Yet I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to ruin his dream and wanted to support him.
he would see posters when walking past lingerie shops and literally stop in front. Cross his arms, look it up and down and smirk while nodding his head, when he was with me.
he would comment on me eating too much... even justfruit. Yet say it was because he didn't want me to get fat and get upset.
because I was so low, I did some stupid things when I was drunk. We had a fight and I smashed a plate, another time I lashed out at his friend (his friend would always make snide remarks that I wasn't a good enough girlfriend to him because we always fought)... and one time I was too drunk and lashed out. I felt bad and apologised both times profusely (sp?) and saw a counsellor... she explained to me how his behaviour was controlling. After 2 years I finally broke it off... I did so while on holiday. I went away and realised I could live and be happy without him, I was going to wait until I got back but it would be 2 months so did it over the phone (which he never lets me forget)- I do feel really guilty for it to this day. We didn't talk for a year (I had 2 other bad bfs), then we got in contact again (3 years on from when we met). He says he sees the wrong from the past (which sometimes I believe) and some things have changed, yet some things haven't. We have been in contact for a year now, me deciding whether to go back with him. I feel myself esteem has plummetted again, but its my fault.
he says he did used to think badly of my body and did think my bum was too big but now he doesn't. I feel like I should be happy with this but it feels like he is running salt into the wounds, just another chance to say 'yeah you were never good enough for me, but ill accept you now, aren't you lucky!' I feel like I should be happy with this but I feel so angry from the past. At the same time I feel so guilty about the things I did. I feel guilty that's its been a year and I have only slept with him twice. I feel like I owe him for 'waiting for me' yet I cent get over the past. Especially wnen he says that he didn't think I was good enough back them (even though all his friends used to comment how hot they thought I was and how did he get me etc). I told him we can try it out for a month, then he took that as an opportunity to say 'from now on then I am going to record evertime you are angry at me'... I feel that is controlling and MAKES me angrier. I do get upset a lot from the past because he tells me to 'get over it' and I feel like I shhould but something inside tells me not to.
he will go out clubbing and not reassure me that he isn't chattiing other girls up etc. his ex love interest (who he wouldn't deny being over when he was with me, also saying she was a 'diamond in the rough' - different girl from the cheating one) would contact him calling him his nickname and he couldn't see anything wrong with that. He would add random girls onto his fb. Even though most things seem to have changed these things still upset me because of the past! I just don't know how to deal with it and get over it and forgive him (I can forgive him when we are not together, but when we are I start to hurt again and wonder why I wasn't and still can't seem to be good enough),
because I haven't slept with him this year he says I have low libido, yet he still doesn't look at me or seem interested in me especially if other girls are around. I was also house sitting, he said his parents were kicking him out, he asked if he could stay with me. At first I said yes, then 2 weeks before I moved into the house we were fighting a lot so I said its best if he doesn't stay. He put the guilt trip on saying he was counting on me and has nowhere to go. Turns out, 6 months later he is still at his parents and has offers to move into his mates but won't because girls live there and he doesn't want to upset me. Truth is, before he said that he said that it was too small and messy and that's why he didn't want to live there.
his friends all think I am this controlling cow because of the crazy things they seen/ heard of me do when drunk (twice) yet they don't see everything he did. But I feel I am in the wrong and need to change. But I don't know how to feel secure with him!!

oh also when we origibally went out he would talk about moving away and travelling the world/ working away for months and months with no thought of me.I was expected to stay behind and wait for him. This would come up every few months when I was trying to get over 'my insecurities' after he would put me down etc. he also went on a holiday with his mate and didn't tell me when he was coming back, just expected me to wait. Then he came back on a big public hol when all the highways were closed, I was at a party. He wanted me to leave, to get him at the airport because he spent all his money on alcohol. I left the party to go, then something held me back (probably closed highways!) and he put the guilt trip on. Magically he 'found' money in his pants to get him home... the night before he left to go on this trip (which had no time limit) he wanted to see me, yet he needed to go to his friends party because his friend made him 'promise that they would go to each others' I said that's fine but he expected me to pick him up an hour away when he was drunk so I could see hime the night before he left (note:him being drunk). I had to work the next morning and said no. he expected me to get work off and said I didn't care because I wouldn't make time for him!
he also had a birthday party the week before this. I told him not to have it on one particular night because it was a mates 30th... he made it that night. He expected me to forfeit the 30th... I just went to the 30th late, but the principal annoyed me. We had been together for 2 years and still there was no thought in this! He still sees nothing wrong with this.

I need to decide now to be with him or not. I have dragged it on for too long! But I am afraid I will never find anyone else and all him and his friends will blame me...

Wow sorry that was far too long... not sure how to cut it down but should get the gist if you just skim parts of it... I don't expect people to read THAT! Lol

I can't believe you have put up with this jerks crappy behaviour for so long,left,and then went back for more!

A councillor told you he was controlling,they were telling you the truth.

Stop this mental and emotional abuser.. stop him today,no contact,take time to heal and love yourself,there are years of bad relationships in your life,time to cull the bad guys and time for you to move on.

Build yourself esteem and confidence back up,you already know this guy is not good for you,get angry,and you have every right to be,and use it to your advantage,run,run away from this guy,and don't look back.

Don't even consider getting back with this emotional moron. He's abusing you-and he comes across as a complete sadist.

Walk away-no,run and never speak to him again.

And maybe you should see your therapist again and do some work on your selfesteem issues.

Thank you both for your answers... so sorry it was so long! I was trying to set the scene but I guess my thing is, I feel like he has changed for the most part... but how do I know that he is not just saying things now to make me feel better?

i.e. I find you attractive... now (the now part gets me though, I feel like that is still abusive? Because he is stating he didn't think I was at the start.)

I know, I wish I walked away as soon as he cheated. I then wished I never considered him again. But now I feel I am in too far and owe him for the changes he has made.

It also hurts that his friends think he is so great and I am such a cow for the things I did. Which I also hate myself for.

I have been to counselors since and they told me maybe he would respect me more if I gave him another go? And they asked why won't I give it another go.. truth is- I am scared to walk away in case he has changed/ he has in some ways, and I won't find anyone better. Yet I am scared to get tangled up in the abusive cycle again

I was always feeling so guilty for what I did (plate throwing etc. breaking up on holiday) and I always feel I owe him. And I still feel it now. And his mates and my family think I do. They think he is wonderful because he is quiet spoken and seemingly sweet.

There again, I can't just forget the past and if he screws me over again I will have only myself to blame. I feel he will move on with someone beautiful and wonderful and smart and funny and kind and I will be left alone

You really need to check out this website. It gives you some very informative info on how abuse begins and multiplies. I see that you have been manipulated.

The Cycle of Abuse (http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page5.html)

You owe him? You owe him!

Sweet holy joe,this guy has you wrapped around his little finger..

You don't owe him squat.

As a matter of fact,if he spent every day,loving you the way he should,on his knees and licking the dirt off your shoes,he could not come close to make up for the emotional damage he has done...


Feeling you owe him should scream at you to get out of this relationship...

Do you owe him 3 kids?

Do you owe him the rest of your life being unhappy?

No way.

You owe yourself to save you... save yourself.

Again... this IS an abusive situation. It's how the abuse begins. Abuse does not always mean physical. This dude has brainwashed you.

Read the link I provided, it will help you see the light.

Please seek counseling. Not couples counseling, but one on one for you to realize that there is a healthy, loving relationship out there for you. With someone who doesn't extort sex from you, or make you feel inferior. This new guy won't cheat on you and tell you to "forgive me or else" ( what an !).

Life doesn't have to be this hard.

You will look back on this relationship one day and see how much time you are wasting.

You owe him nothing.

You do owe it to YOURSELF to be happy and respected.

Good luck.

What are you doing staying with this man? YOU owe him nothing! He is a control freak and why would you think you couldnt' find anyone. There are plenty of guys out there. It's not you, get that out of your head. Your not desperate, you need to get your respect and dignity back. Kick him to the ground. Work on you, and forget about the men, someone will come along when you least expect it. I can't believe you stayed with this man.

Racquel,

Did you read the link that J-9 posted? In it there is a clearly defined 'circle of abuse'. Read it once, and then read it again.

That is as close to what you are going through as anything you've said in your posts.

I can't imagine a qualified counsellor telling you to give him another chance. They are wrong, wrong, wrong.

You will need help getting off this toxic merry go round and regaining yourself in the process.

Have you thought of any plans as to how you are going to do that?

Oh please. Stop this and stop it now. I felt stabbed in the heart when I read your post.

There is SO much that is wrong and toxic in your connection to this man, that I don't even know where to start.

Your size is not the issue here. You're putting all your hopes for happiness and the responsibility for yourself esteem in the hands of a mean, abusive, controlling predator. There is absolutely no happiness or joy in this relationship - all you describe is manipulation, bullying and sadness.

You keep looking to him for confirmation of your happiness, health and attractiveness and he keeps denying you, again and again and again.

You say that you're afraid to leave because you won't find anyone else. Sweet Jesus, why would you stay with someone that treats you SO badly? You would be SO much better off to be alone.

Leave him now. Who cares what his stupid friends think!

Please go back to counselling. You have repeating patterns of abuse in your relationships and you don't know how to break out of them. You sound gorgeous - but you're emotionally and spiritually unwell because you stay in relationships with men that treat you like $hit.

The important thing is for you to break this cycle - deep down you know this. Put aside your fear (being alone is not the worse thing that can happen!) and make a decision to cut the toxicity out of your life. You will never feel genuinely beautiful or appreciated while you are with this awful man.

Thank you so much for all of your answers. I didn't expect so many people to actually answer. I think I know deep down that you are all right. My dad was always controlling of my mum as well, and a psych has explained to me that cycle.

But because I keep ending up with people like this, I can't help thinking it is me! The last one (in the break with this guy) would bring me down about my looks and his 'fantasy girls' but would control me 24/7. never let me have a break. Wouldn't let me breath. So I acted out crazy again, then broke up with him and he kept stalking me and is still trying after a year.

The first guy I talked about does seem better in ways. i.e. he will say I am beautiful now, does listen to me and understand my problems outside of the relationship, he does listen to me regarding the past (most of the time)... but at the same time he does put up with me talking about it almost everyday (I do want to 'talk' everyday because deep down I feel I am going against what I should be doing -leaving him right alone).

He has hung around for a year without sex, seems to have matured a bit in some ways... but then... how would I know that's not just an 'act' or the fourth 'calm' stage of abuse until he has me for sure again. In a relationship.

He says I am abusive because I keep talking about the past and then I yell when he draws away and gives me the silent treatment and says spiteful things (he thinks he acts better than me because he is calm and 'collected' when really he seems passive aggressive). Anyway, I then yell and get desperate etc. then he says I am abusing him which makes me more mad (I don't call him names or put him down but I do yell)... at this stage I always used to back down but now I just have to walk away.

I act crazy around him. And I did around my other controlling boyfriend that wouldn't let me breath. My psych says that is part of the abuse. They make you look 'crazy' by manipulating you. But I feel I should have more control and not yell etc. but I can't just not talk about things from the past because they make me so mad and feel so low.

Even though for the most part he doesn't say things that directly put me down... just the fact that he talks about the past makes me think it is abuse again. Just a more 'sneaky' way... like 'you were not good enough back then, I will admit that now... but I will also accept you and deal with your 'flaws' now'...

Hun, read that link I gave you. It not only explains it all, but it teaches you how to make better choices.

But basically because I acted out a few times I look like the abuser... and he tells me I am... and sometimes I think I am. It's just such a head screw! But I am afraid that if I am the abuser- what if I do it in my next relationship?

He says I am abusive because I am always telling him he is doing things wrong. But he does often do stuff that only concerns him I guess... and even when he doesn't... something about him irks me... and I am on edge and angry purely from the past!. and also the present... I guess some of those beahviours are still controlling and spiteful.

And I have always 'understood' his reasonings for things. When really, I didn't need to do that. I should have just walked away. I guess its even harder now though because he has been MUCH better this past year than he was in the past (2-3 years ago)

You are pretty much brainwashed... that's common in an abusive situation. He has successfully brainwashed you to believe anything he wants you to believe. If he wants you to believe the grass is purple, by God, he will be able to.

You need to get away from this before you are ruined even further.

Now we always fight because he denies everything and says that everything he said to put me down in the past were just lies that he said to not let me feel too good, and when he backed them up this year by saying that in the past I wasn't good enough, that he was just trying to be consistent with what he said in the past but he never meant any of it.

That the 'truth' is that he thought I was too good for him and I should accept that. But even then, I don't know what to believe! Its all a pile of lies and contradictions! And because he says this to me NOW, I'm supposed to be OK with it and forgive him? I don't know what to believe! To me, it sounds more like another manipulation technique. But I don't know if I am being too paranoid about abuse, and just stating that certain behaviour is abuse when its not!

Omg! I'm sorry, another long post! As you can probably see- I am completely erratic and confused!

You are pretty much brainwashed...that's common in an abusive situation. He has successfully brainwashed you to believe anything he wants you to believe. If he wants you to believe the grass is purple, by God, he will be able to.

You need to get away from this before you are ruined even further.

I guess you do make sense to me... and I think if I was one of my friends I would tell her to get the hell out! But because it's me... I blame myself! (also the past relationships being similar don't help). And I know his friends think I am crazy and that he should get the hell away from me because I am abusive. And knowing my whole family back him up and think I am the abusive one makes it even harder... I think I am going to try and get away for a while. Work interstate. Fresh start. New head.

There is a type of man who attracts women with low self esteem and low confidence,most likely something has happened in their own lives that let them believe that the way they abuse their partner is the way its supposed to be... ITS NOT..

When you say you think that it you,your right... you keep going for the same guy only a different face,this ine knows from old how to press your buttons and how to keep control.

When you stand up to him,he gets afraid,honestly... because your not afraid of him,he's a bully,and you're his victim,and a willing victim.

The only way to stop yourself from repeating the same abusive relationships is to be on your own for minimum one year.. thats only 12 months!

In that time,you work on you,set yourself achievable goals,surround yourself with positive people,family and friends.

As the months past,and your mental state inproves.. (he has caused a lot of damage to you) you will get a new perspective on things.

And one day you will wake up,and look at yourself in the mirror and say... never never again,will someone treat me like that... EVER!.

You will meet someone who will love you,and it won't be easy,but with care and understanding of yourself you can have the type of relationship that is trully amazing..

But first things first... leave him.

Hun, read that link I gave you. It not only explains it all, but it teaches you how to make better choices.

Thank you for the link- it was helpful and I do understand it and could easily see it in other people's relationships etc. and I can see it in my past relationship with him. But I can't see it so clearly in the past year, which adds to my confusion. Like, maybe he has changed and I am not giving him the proper chance I should. But then again I think 'what idiot in her right mind WOULD give him ANOTHER chance!'

But then I think 'well what if he HAS changed! And he is showing it but I can't see it! BUT if he had fully changed then I probably wouldn't be feeling the way I do now!

And I guess if I was the abuser. I wouldn't be feeling so guilty and trying to change myself all the time.

Redhead35- you know what... I did have a short period where I was alone (I broke up with a drug dealer that basically put a price on me) which was a huge step (this was just after the guy I have been talking about first off)... it broke my heart. But I was proud I could decide that. In that time though I tried to end 'it all' if you get me... which scared me to death because I didn't want to be in that situation again. My mum and sister will never forgive me for that, and I am the 'outsider' in the family partly due to that. It felt like no one cared or took me seriously... I felt more alone than ever but couldn't try again because I knew how much pain it caused them. Yet I had no support... which pushed me to the next controlling guy... then back to this one.

And I can see what you mean... he is scared so calls me the abuser because it makes him the 'victim' which pulls on my heart strings and then he regains control.

I can see SOME small controlling things he does. But he is so much better with not outwardly putting me down or talking other girls up. But I guess he won't do that so much anymore because I put my foot down, said it was wrong, and now he has to find other ways to manipulate and pull me down.

And I guess the reason I am always starting fights and resisting him is because deep down I know its wrong. And I am going against my gut instinct again (which I ignored a lot in the past and I was actually right and should have followed).

I always made excuses for him because he comes across as SO sweet and innocent, like butter wouldn't melt. And really, he deserves no excuses. And the only reason why I have dragged all of this out is because I am yet again brainwashed into thinking I am at fault.

Though it all seems so surreal and like, it would never happen to me. He would never do that etc. but who says he wouldn't do it all again? He has done it once!

Trust your instincts-dont have anything more to do with him.
I urge you to reread all the advice here,and let it sink in.

God I've walked miles in your shoes,till the blisters tore at my soul,everything your saying I said,and it took me a long time to see the abuse and then the courage to get out,my problem was he would not stay gone and pull me back in...

Get help,get support from your family,sink or swim.

god ive walked miles in your shoes,till the blisters tore at my soul,everything your saying i said,and it took me a long time to see the abuse and then the courage to get out,my problem was he would not stay gone and pull me back in...

get help,get support from your family,sink or swim.

But from what I said in the last few paragraphs, do you think that is still abusive? What I mainly mean is he is generally better now, doesn't outwardly talk down to me.
But he will say - 'i used to think negatively of you/ think you were big,. but I realised you are realistic and I don't think you're big now now... '

'i love your figure now, but if you had that figure back when I met you I wouldn't have been attracted to you'

'if you had a skinnier bum when we met then I would have been more attracted to you... but I was an idiot and that's not realistic, and I love it now'

'im going to write down everything you get mad at me for... if the reasons you get mad are ligit then you don't have anything to worry about!'

'you keep bringing up the past, and I have listened and understood but you need to get over it'

'you are being abusive by yelling at me and from throwing things (in the past), and I don not deserve this' (as I said, I yell when he gives me the silent treatment as it really frustrates me and its like a way for him to just shut me down so I get off topic/ back down and say I am wrong.

He goes out clubbing if we have a big argument, yet if I did that he would HATE it. But he says he 'needs to' so he can 'get his mind off things'. If I do it... (which I don't because I am not a fan of clubbing/ feel really ripped up inside when we have a fight and can't get myself out) then apparently I do it out of spite

Do they seem controlling to you? They are more few and far between these days, but what gets me is he still can't see anything wrong with them... and also, maybe they are just more sparse because I won't sleep with him/ commit to him so he has to be on 'better' behaviour.

Because he is better than he used to be that makes me feel like he has seen wrong and is bettering himself (as he tells me)... yet the things he says about the past still seem quite mean... almost back handed insults (if that makes sense... )

Oh and another thing... he tells me I am too indecisive (I used to be! Probably because of all the abuse!). I changed that a lot. I could be decisive 100 times now, and indecisive 1-3 times, yet he concentrates on when I am indecisive and tells me I am ALWAYS like that.

Then when I am decisive- i.e. he asked me to do something. I say no, I don't feel like it/ I'm busy. He gets quiet. And later gets huffy at me telling me I ALWAYS say No to him and that e is too afraid to ask me to do anything now because he is sick of rejection! - I say to him its like he is saying 'you need to be decisive, meaning say 'yes' to everything' and he gets angry and says I don't understand etc etc

Oh also, I don't have support from my family. I don't have close relationships with them anymore... and because they have lived a similar relationship story... they think I am the one in the wrong that 'needs to get over the past'... my mum forgives certain abusive people way too easily. And so I am scared of doing that and being burnt again.

He is starting uni again soon, and I feel nervous all the time that he's going to meet that 'special person' he used to always talk about. I can't live my life like this! But then I think, what if I do go out with someone else and I am jealous of the same things? There again... there were bf's between that I didn't get jealous because even though they weren't great bf's, I still felt loved and like they were attracted to me so I didn't worry so much

Its emotional abuse-he's playing with your head and knows how to prod your insecurities.

Can you speak to a counsellor at your uni?

He won't change. He will just find different ways to control you and make you feel bad. I speak from experience. He might seem like he has changed, but he has just found a more insidious way to do the same things. Don't even think of staying with this guy.

Although you started saying that he was abusing you, now you seem to be wavering, even retreating in this assertion.

You keep talking about how he's improved, how he doesn't comment on the size of your body any more - but you're ignoring all the other awful parts of the destructive, noxious dynamic that a relationship between the two of creates.

Amicon and redhead are absolutely and utterly right. YOU need help. YOU need to get out of this relationship where you constantly question your own self worth. YOU need to speak to a counselor so that you can begin to get a perspective on why you stay, yet live in fear and allow yourself to be abused in this way.

Please go and see someone.

He is controlling, cruel, abusive, a bad seed. Choose your favorite word. Even if I only read a third of what you've written I can tell that and the more I read the more disgusting he seems. But forget him for a moment. This is about you.

This guy is too much inside your head. You should being living your own life, not a life that is in reaction to all the things he says and does.

He is bad for you. You know he's bad for you. You say your esteem has gone down since you reconnected with him. There's a reason for that.

Go back to the counselor who told you he was controlling and tell her what has happened. And begin working your way back out of the hole you are in.

And NO boyfriends for one year. You need to find yourself more than anyone I've seen for a while.

Edit: I realize the tone I used was ordering you around and I apologize for that. That is the last thing you probably need right now, other people telling you what to do. But at the same time, it's frustrating to have been through something like you are going through and not be able to tell you "no no!" Anyway, what I learned was that I needed to set boundaries, not just with my ex, but with lots of people. And those boundaries are MY boundaries and limits. I won't put up with certain things and I also accept the conesquence of that is that I can't have relationships with certain people and that's okay. So if you want a relationship with this man, then you will basically have no boundaries. There's no offensive thing he won't do, so you have to decide if that's okay or not. For ALL of us, it wouldn't be and we are aghast that you would consider it. But it IS your decision.

Like all abusers, he treats you this way, because he can.

You looking for answers as to whether this is abuse is ironic, because you already have all the answers you need, through your own examples of his behaviour.

Asking is right, you keep living your life, by reacting to what he says, and then turn around and try to figure out why he treats you this way.

It is you treating you this way. You keep having the same old behaviour coming at you, and clearly you can see what it is.

You analyze everything he says, so you can prove you aren't the cause of it. What a lot of energy you waste in proving to yourself you didn't do anything to cause this.

I don't understand why you can see all of this, and quite intelligently put it all into a logical story of events, yet you still question whether this relationship is good for you.

I don't know what else to say except perhaps read your own words more, and open some windows and let the fog you live under dissipate.

Sorry I haven't been back for a while... honestly... I was scare to come back for a while. WHICH should be assign to me that obviously I know what people are going to say! Then when I did come back all my windows that I kept open were closed so I had to Google my question... so glad it came up! Anyway...

OK, you are right. He is using different, more 'sneaky' ways to get me to question myself. I have to forgive myself for the past things I did but also realise it was a reaction to his controlling me (no excuse, I know... but maybe will help me to forgive myself and stop feeling like I need to make up for it!). I need to go back to that psychologist (tho I am scared because in person I trivialise things a lot... and I'm actually embarrassed to go back and see her. Also, I feel like him ridiculing me about my body is not actually a big deal and that its something I should get over therefore I feel embarrassed talking in person. The last Psych laughed when I said it? )

I also need to walk away and get over the fact that he may meet someone else who he 'gets on with better'... because it's likely that she is just putting up with his behaviour more than me. I also need to be alone for a while and build up myself esteem so that I can see these guys coming a lot sooner and not allow myself to jump in! And hopefully, will start to attract different kinds of men.

He said the other day that he wanted to join my gym, which I have always said that I would prefer him (or any of my friends/ bf's) to come to because that's my little piece of 'down time' and has been for 7 years! I go pretty much everyday. He could not see why I was upset when he said he wanted to. He said it was because it was cheaper and that he wouldn't go at the same time as me. There are HEAPS of gyms around his house that he could go to! I felt it would soon escalate from me saying 'ok, sure join my gym but we go separately' to 'ok sure we can go once a week.'... 'three times a week together' etc etc because he would put the guilt trip on as to why I don't want to go with him. Fact is, he goes out with mates to chill out. I go to the gym. He knows this.

I guess also I feel him putting down my body was MY fault because we were talking about body image etc. and he is 'just a man' so (in his words) 'doesnt know what he is talking about'... but at the same time I feel he did so many nasty things... that he could very well have known what he was talking about. Plus, there were also times when we weree not talking about body image, and he still said things

Go back to your therapist and open up to her/him.
Work on your selfesteem and please have nothing more to do with that loser.

Go back to your therapist and open up to her/him.
Work on your selfesteem and please have nothing more to do with that loser.

Thanks again for all your time, patience and help... and everyone else too!:)

You seem to know what you SHOULD do,and how to do it,but your still with him,and he's still controlling you.

The gym today,something else tomorrow.

Only you can change your situation,even if you can't see that your in a controlling relationship,could I ask,do your family and friends realise how he treats you? And if so,what's there take on it?

sorry I haven't been back for a while... honestly... I was scare to come back for a while. WHICH should be assign to me that obviously I know what people are going to say!

This is totally understandable. I am glad you came back. It takes a while to work this stuff out. One thing that might help is to start a journal and write down the controlling or hurtful things he does every single day. When I did that for just one week, I knew I had to leave. It really helped. Because there was so much that I would forget stuff he'd done.


OK, you are right. He is using different, more 'sneaky' ways to get me to question myself.

Yep! He is learning and adapting.


I need to go back to that psychologist (tho I am scared because in person I trivialise things a lot... and I'm actually embarrassed to go back and see her. Also, I feel like him ridiculing me about my body is not actually a big deal and that its something I should get over therefore I feel embarrassed talking in person. The last Psych laughed when I said it? )

I'm guessing she laughed because you have no reason to be worried. When you trivialize your own issues, you are channeling his view of you. Like I said before, it's not that easy to get him out of your head. Be patient with yourself, but don't give up. Going to therapy means revealing yourself and taking chances.

Explain to the therapist that it's not okay to laugh at you. If she doesn't respond to that in a satisfactory way, find another one. You can look for therapists who specialize in bullying or abuse relationships, which is what you are experiencing.


I also need to walk away and get over the fact that he may meet someone else who he 'gets on with better'... because it's likely that she is just putting up with his behaviour more than me.

Exactly. My ex husband dated for a year after our divorce and settled on a woman and he still has her. (That's how I think of it; I feel sorry for her.) They don't live together but they are a couple. It's been 8 years now. He told me a year ago that they were breaking up and he told me about her drinking problem and that that was the reason. He'd never offered anything personal about his relationship before and I'd never asked. But I did ask one question. Was she drinking when you started dating her? He said no. In fact, they have got back together. I'm sure he found a way to get her back. But the point is that (I think) he drove her to drink. A 50 year old woman who doesn't drink too much doesn't just up and become an alcoholic for no reason. It's a shame men like your boyfriend and my ex aren't stamped with a warning label. "Extreme Hazard. Become involved at your own risk."


I also need to be alone for a while and build up myself esteem so that I can see these guys coming a lot sooner and not allow myself to jump in! And hopefully, will start to attract different kinds of men.

Yes. Practice setting boundaries with others, not just him. It's okay for you to say no.

But you will not attract different men. These guys are still attracted to me and I doubt that will ever change. But you can learn to sift them out sooner without being suspicious of EVERY man.


he said the other day that he wanted to join my gym,

Say no. There's no room for compromise on this issue. This man is not your friend. At best, he will use the membership to keep you under observation. At worst, he'll undermine any relationships you have there with others and take away the pleasure of going there. And as you say, either way, you get no escape from him.



I go pretty much everyday. He could not see why I was upset when he said he wanted to.

I think he knows exactly why you are upset, and you are right to be upset. He's just playing dumb. He doesn't want you to have that down time, because it weakens his grip on you. The gym gives you both emotional and physical strength and he knows that.

Same for your friendships or family connections. He will either make friends with your friends to the point where they are confused about their loyalty (to you or him) or actually damage them by offending them or persuading you that people don't like you. That's what my ex did. He did everything he could to isolate me from the world. He told me my best friend didn't like me (over and over), offended my friends, and tried to hire my close work colleagues for his own business.


he said it was because it was cheaper and that he wouldn't go at the same time as me. There are HEAPS of gyms around his house that he could go to! I felt it would soon escalate from me saying 'ok, sure join my gym but we go separately' to 'ok sure we can go once a week.'... 'three times a week together' etc etc because he would put the guilt trip on as to why I don't want to go with him.

Just say no. And keep saying it.

The reality is that you can't keep him from joining any gym he wants. But don't give him permission. That's what he's trying to get from you. Don't give it.

I'm very sorry if our comments made you feel scared. But, sometimes a completely objective perspective is what is required. I hope that the posters are able to provide you with this perspective, and that it is helpful.

I'm surprised that a Psych laughed at you when you talked about your body issues. It's such a common thing for a woman to feel this way about her body, that they must deal with it on a daily basis. That person was either completely inconsiderate (and unprofessional) or they were genuinely surprised that you would have body issues.

In any case, please do go back to see a counselor - it's really important that you have professional support as you're trying to disentangle yourself from this awful guy.

This guy just wants to go to your gym because he wants to stalk you. You know this, and that's why it feel so uncomfortable. He's a creep that has you doubting your own self-worth. I absolutely agree with Asking - say no. Say it quietly and don't get into arguments with him. Better still, talk to him as little as possible - if at all. Remember, he's an expert at this sort of manipulative, controlling behavior. The less you deal with him, the less you have to try and outwit him.

Strong boundaries are really important with people like him. Look up 'dealing with abusers' on the internet - you'll find heaps of advice about how to create those boundaries and maintain them. Read up about the sort of person he is, and how people like him behave - you'll be better equipped to understand his behavior and understand why he is SO toxic to your well-being.

Keep your friends and family around you and let them know what is going on. You will need their support and encouragement.

sorry it's been so long since I checked again! This time I thought nobody would say anything more- then I saw my emails =o) It's really nice to see that people care and do see an issue!

Redhed35- My family don't see anything wrong. They think I am the problem because I am more vocal and 'crazy' than him. Though I haven't been 'crazy for years now'. They are in the same abuse cycle though. I have grown up hearing 'you are too moody' etc etc. Sure, in my teens I was! (who wasn't!! ) but now I am not a very moody person at all! Except when I don't feel good- which seems to be in these relationships. Some of my friends that met him in the past warned me not to go back for a year. But... he is very sweet and innocent seeming and kind of admitted fault at times and so I got dragged back in. And like I said, I feel guiltey because I have taken my time (a year) to decide and have not slept with him.

My new friends have not met him but have heard all about the past and they are in 2 minds. They feel he playes games and I should walk away but they feel like I should just try it and put my whole heart and understanding into a relationship for a few months so that if it doesn't work out I can just walk away with a guilty conscience (for my own good). I have tried that a few times but resentment prevents me each time.

I am so sick of hearing 'i really liked our relationship when you aren't grumpy with me'. It makes me mad because I gave the relationship a FULL shot the first time. All my heart and trust was thrown in there even though I was so broken from my first abusive relationship. And periodically I would give that back to him. He could not see we COULD HAVE had a good relationship if he treated me well. But instead. Its all me. All my 'moody ways', he is an angel... pffft

Gemini54- No, you didn't scare me =o) I really like having direct answers and REALLY appreciate everyone's time with my problems! I think I was more scared because as Redhed said- I know what to do... I just don't seem to do it!

I have been thinking Really hard lately and I really think myself belief system is just ruined.

I am 23, I feel like no one else will want me. When I get comments/ compliements/ whistles from other people I brush them off 'oh they would do that/ say that to every one' (in regards to my personality and looks, but the body image side really does shatter me and worry me mainly). I see othe girls my age who have travelled, finished uni, are gorgeous, have great jobs, lots of close friends, good family ties, are engaged or having kids or buying houses etc. I feel so behind and I feel like this guy has 'changed' and is not AS bad so I should just settle because I won't find/ don't deserve anything better!

I feel like I will leave, then feel guilty for wasting a year of his time and 'leading him on', he will find someone great and get along wonderfully and I will be alone, broke and stupid. I know its sounds crazy but I am just so torn! I want to be strong. But at the same time, `i feel like I will regret being 'strong'.

Its funny, a year ago when we started talking again. I vowed to myself I would never date him and that we would just be 'friends'. But then we would catch up and he would dress up in suits and look all sad and soulful and remorseful for our past relationship. His nose would be all snuffly and his eyes red because he was crying before we caught up and that was it. I was hooked. I was guilty. My heart broke for him and it just played on my conscience. He went away for a year prior to us seeing each other again and he would talk to me now about how he would tell his family about me and he only ever thought of me. I feel like on one hand he is telling the truth but on the other, he knows it will pull my heart strings.

My financial situation is really bad atm. I can't afford to see my old Psych (who pointed out his behavious to me) but as soon as I get an extra $200 I will go back to him.

I actually caught him lying in regards to the body image thing the other day. He was explaining an old comment that 'all Czech girls are hot' saying that he used to live with a Czech girl that was so hot etc. He was going on about how she was a model etc and how great she was looks wise.

I mentioned something a few days later about his 'Czech model' and he replied. 'i don't know what your talking about. I don't know any models and never have, and especially not a Czech one'! Bit hard to believe he just 'forgot' his model roommate that he spoke so highly of just a few days before!

Me thinks maybe to many white manipulative lies to keep up with?

Until you leave this guy alone, you will never be happy, or find reasons to be happy with yourself, and find and do the things that make you happy.

At some point you have to make a decision that gets him out of your life, and allows you to get a life.

Until you leave this guy alone, you will never be happy, or find reasons to be happy with yourself, and find and do the things that make you happy.

At some point you have to make a decision that gets him out of your life, and allows you to get a life.

I guess you're right. I am so sick of being scared of being alone for fear of nobody wanting me. When I take a big step back I can see how ridiculous it is. But like I keep saying it's so hard to break that cycle again because I can already feel how low myself esteem is

I am so sick of being scared of being alone for fear of nobody wanting me.

You know that this is utterly silly.

Firstly, you're not alone. You have family and friends. And you have yourself. It's not shameful to be 23 and not in a relationship. Why is it so scary for you to be alone?

Secondly, what logic is there in staying with someone that makes you feel awful, because you don't want to be alone?

You just feel MORE awful, and MORE alone.

Thirdly, why place you self esteem in the hands of another person? Especially a person that seduces you into believing you're their dream GF and then belittles and demeans you.

You're right - at 23 you have a whole life and world ahead of you. But don't be deceived into thinking that just because other people are doing things differently to you, or quicker than you, that you're a failure. There is no joy at all in comparing yourself to others. You are you.

We all do things at different times and different rates. I didn't have a real BF until I was 30, bought my first house when I was 46 and got married for the first time at 47.

You can't have a life until you give yourself permission to let this guy go. He's stunting your growth.

Allow yourself to take those first steps on the road to rebuilding your selfesteem by having nothing more to do with a person who you must realise is NOT doing anything to help your issues.

There is nothing wrong with being on your own,and building a strong relationship with yourself.
That's how we develop selfesteem and learn how to cope with life.

This guy is seriously bad news and you know it.
Don't let him run your life.

I have been reading a few emotionally abusive articles and they have said that the abuse should be 'frequent'. I don't know what that means though? I mean, I look at my past and think that all of theat happened over 2 years and that there were some really good times in amongst all of that. But I guess maybe I just picked up on the overt emotionally abusive behaviour because it absoluteky broke my heart, but perhaps overlooked some of the more subtle behaviour?

And I keep going back to the thinking that maybe I am abusive because of the plate throwing on a couple of occasions while being stupid and drunk. Or maybe I am being abusive by always wanting to talk about his abusive behaviour in the past or controlling behaviour now (few and far between though)... but there again, maybe that is me having a gut instinct that his behaviour is not right and therefore I think and talk about it ALL THE TIME. Which he says is abusive.

And you know, even though now he pretty much says nice things about my body for the most part, I still spend day in and day out stressing over what I am eating and doing exercise. I have not done anything proactive in getting a job for 3 months. He says that he wishes I wasn't so obsessed with my diet etc but at the same time with past relationships (minus one of them) I was never THIS obsessed.

Even though for the most part he seems to have changed and be 'supportive', I feel that too much damage is done from the past and I am constantly waiting for him to tear me down again subtly. Sometimes I can think about the abuse from the past and just think 'yeah but if I was another girl... or if I didn't do *this*, or if I was smarter... prettier... taller... skinnier... funnier... more outgoing... blah blah blah then it wouldn't have happened.' or 'I probably caused it because I probably did something abusive.'

And quite frankly, I feel exhausted. Like things will blow up eventually and it will be all my fault.

Has anyone else ever heard of people being emotionally abused and then acting out themselves? I.e. throwing plates. Or wanting to talk about their partners behaviour too much, and therefore looking like the abuser themselves?

On another note- I guess the reason I feel maybe I am wrong or the abuser is because I have been in this situation twice before. Though in different ways.

The first broke off when I was 19, he was physically abusive, I can't believe how much it escalated from just kicking a hole in a door. We met when I was 17, it moved SO fast. We would talk and see each other constantly. Then when I didn't hear from in for a day it would be weird, like I couldn't get in contact at all. Then I would get worried and things escalated from there. I always thought it was me starting the fights but I guess you do get insecure when you are CONSTANTLY with your partner 24/7 then they go 'missing' for a day or 2 and you can't contact them. I guess I was so reliant on him and then the abuse began after that. He would restrain me on the bed, lock me in rooms, drive recklessly, abused me once in front of my friends, broke into my house, broke a lot of my stuff, throw things at me, threaten to kill himself, put himself in hospital by 'od-ing' on anti-inflammatories, blame me for him not having a job, stalk me at home and work, bash all the doors down in his house, he was always 'excited' while this was carrying on. I guess I thought maybe I was emotionally abusive and caused all of that.

After 5 years he is going around bad mouthing me and turning 'friends' against me saying that I apparently didn't like them and said mean things (I know, I know, how high school!) but they believ him.

The other one who would not listen to me, talk about his 'fantasy' girls and about how I was just his 'real girl', talk about how he had cheated with the 'hot blonde girls' in past relationships, wouldn't give me space to breath etc. I turned even more mental. I was so obsessed with him and his fantasy girls esp. because I never got any space. Then he threatened to commit suicide. All his friends and family blame me saying I am too insecure and immature for him. I would write questions on help forums like this and then he recently started messaging me saying that he has 'read what I had written about my other ex' and basically holding my info above me. He has threatened to show friends and family how mad I am. Saying I am the devil, they all think so too now. He stalked me in person for a while too. He is a VERY charming guy. He comes across as 'dumb and innocent'.

My mum and sister think that its all me too... my sister knows about the abuse and keeps saying to me 'oh I love Charlie sheen. He is so cool.' (because of all the abuse claims of recent). When I don't respond or just say 'yeah he is a cool actor' she will say things like 'yeah but as a person he is so funny and cool. Those women are just dumb. I love him. They deserve it'. It feels like she is just having a dig at me (as she does with me being a veg too). So I don't feel I have my family, I do have one or two GREAT friends though.

I can also feel like I am becoming so selfich by thinking about all of this and being so angry and confused. So I feel I should just forget about it and go back with my recent ex. (dw I know what you will say to that). Just saying that's how I feel.

I am just sick of having these relationships and knowing that they have big 'clans' against me. Who take their sides because I am 'the devil', yet I have few friends. And they are great people and they won't 'take sides' as such because they are more mature.

I AM SO SICK OF LIVING MY LIFE FOR OTHER PEOPLE! How dare they tell me I am or am not OK! It can make me so angry sometimes and I want to break free! At the same time, I can't seem to because I lack that confidence! I guess I just have to do it and try stay strong and see a psych again.

Even if nobody reads this, it has been a good therapy session just writing it all down!

Ahhh I will really work at being more concise with my writing!

Just a question if you don't mind. Have you ever been single long enough to be happy just doing your own thing??

Put your energy where it will benefit you-seeing a therapist and rebuild your selfesteem.

Going around in circles analyzing somebody else's behaviour is pointless.

Just a question if you don't mind. Have you ever been single long enough to be happy just doing your own thing???

This is my first ever post on this wonderful site and Racquel, your posts are exhausting so I can only imagine what your head is going through. I do hope you listen to everyone here as it is so apparent that you are indeed deeply wounded and so emotionally bankrupt that your thoughts and feelings on any given day is left entirely up to the boyfriend. Talaniman asked if you've been single long enough to be happy. Based on your extensive writing about every minute detail of the boyfriend's perspective of YOU, it would seem that you may not know what happiness is for YOU... meaning, while you've had moments feeling happy they were entirely contingent upon someone else. At least that is the impression I am reading within your posts and the BIGGEST clue to you giving away your happiness is the fact that the time you've spent in therapy you admittedly trivialized behaviours and thoughts... why? You were there to fix you, if there is any place in the world that Racquel should be authentic is in therapy and yet you chose not to be. Begs me to question how much you wish to change your own drama. If you don't wish to change your drama then fine... I won't exhaust myself reading through the incremental details of what HE said and how YOU defined yourself by his words. We adore you and only want to help you see the incredibly self destructive path you are living and seemingly happy to do so. You can defend the boyfriend all you wish it only shows that you are protecting your drama. If you wish to end it... go No Contact and decide for you that YOU want to be healthy. If you wish to continue swimming in the toxic waters you've come accustomed to then you should drive the boyfriend to the gym with you each day and embrace the maddness.

I wish you well.

Racquel, you seem to be increasingly seized by a paralysis that stops you from doing anything.

Stop blaming all the other people in your life for what is happening to you. Please take responsibility for your own happiness and your physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.

You are the ONLY one that can.

It's good to be angry and it's good to articulate what you're feeling. But remember, no-one is MAKING you 'live your life for other people'.

That has been your decision - and you CAN change that.

So, what's stopping you?

Has anyone else ever heard of people being emotionally abused and then acting out themselves? I.e. throwing plates. or wanting to talk about their partners behaviour too much, and therefore looking like the abuser themself?

Of course.

1. Abuse doesn't have to be "frequent," whatever that means. What constitutes abuse is a pattern of behavior whose purpose is to control the other person. You've already described enough for all of us to agree that he is abusive. That is not at issue.

2. Yes. If someone pushes you hard enough, your own behavior will begin to deteriorate even if you were formerly a well behaved person. I lost my temper and threw a glass on the floor. Of course, then I felt awful about myself. And the mark on my floor is still there for me to see and to remind me where I've come from. I see it every time I mop the floor. I learned to not do that and I eventually found the strength to divorce him.

Once we were apart I experienced joy and euphoria that wouldn't stop for 2 months. It was such a relief to not be criticized every day. You have no idea what you are missing.

3. You are not talking about his behavior "too much." What you are going through is normal. I just wish you could escape him. But I know how hard it is. It took me 15 years and by then I had had two kids with him. In the 9 year since my divorce, I have never once wished I was back with him.

Take care.

I understand that you need to take control of your own life. I understand this. What I'm saying is I don't know how! I look at everything and I can blame myself for it all. Then I think that I don't need to take myself out of this relationship because *I* should be able to act better. *I* should deal with it. *I* should not get upset. *I* should work through it WITH him.

I feel like, if I omit him from my life then I will end up in the same position as I am in now, with a different person. And because I am so faulty, we will have to go through everything again only to get to where I am now with the current guy.

You say get support from other people. I don't have it. *I* have set up all my relationships in such a way that I am the submissor. Including with my family.

I feel like if I am single, I have just wasted a year of this guys life (by not committing and not sleeping with him) and that all of the past was MY fault and I owe him and need to rectify it. I have no idea how to do that. One minute I feel angry with him, the next I feel intense guilt.

You're right. I don't know happiness. I am trying to get my life on track by getting a new job... but its slow and no results over 6 months. I'm trying to keep busy, exercising and seeing friends, volunteering, work as often as possible to stop myself from thinking and getting depressed.

I feel like he has been good for a year and I owe it to him to forgive everything. I trivialise my problems because I feel they are stupid. I am stupid. There are FAR more important things going on in the world than my childish issues (that *I* should be able to sort through without therapy). I have exhausted everyone here! That's exactly what I do in real life! I don't want to live like this but I can't seem to stop.

This is my belief, I am inherintly flawed and 'owe' things to people. I've booked an appoint with the dr to get a referral to my old psych. How embarrassing

Of course.

1. Abuse doesn't have to be "frequent," whatever that means. What constitutes abuse is a pattern of behavior whose purpose is to control the other person. You've already described enough for all of us to agree that he is abusive. That is not at issue.

2. Yes. If someone pushes you hard enough, your own behavior will begin to deteriorate even if you were formerly a well behaved person. I lost my temper and threw a glass on the floor. Of course, then I felt awful about myself. And the mark on my floor is still there for me to see and to remind me where I've come from. I see it every time I mop the floor. I learned to not do that and I eventually found the strength to divorce him.

Once we were apart I experienced joy and euphoria that wouldn't stop for 2 months. It was such a relief to not be criticized every day. You have no idea what you are missing.

3. You are not talking about his behavior "too much." What you are going through is normal. I just wish you could escape him. But I know how hard it is. It took me 15 years and by then I had had two kids with him. In the 9 year since my divorce, I have never once wished I was back with him.

Take care.
Ok, this sounds a lot like me. Thank you for your story. That is what I find so hard. Forgiving myself. And thinking maybe I am the abusive one!

I also try to remember about my father being abusive to my mother and she said a couple of times she also snapped when he was being cruel and even kicked him in the chest. Which is NOT like my mother AT ALL! (difference to me though is he was also phsyically abusive, not in THAT particular instance but he was usually).

Also, I guess I have to remember that for as long as I stay I am always going to be going round and round in circles in my head about the past and finding ways to blame me (I know, its my decision to leave/ stay etc so I am putting myself here) but I mean in the sense that I will put up with more abuse because I can convince myself that *I* deserve it.

Also, even thouugh everything seems nice and wonderful NOW, doesn't mean it will stay that way. It's the cycle of abuse. I usually find the controlling won't happen unless I am comfy and my guard is down.

I'm going to read over all of these comments again... and again... and again

I think that you're doing the right and brave thing - which is thinking about yourself and questioning your motives. Only by doing these 2 things will you stop yourself from falling back into the old patterns.

Well done for booking an appointment with the psych - it's not embarrassing, I wish more people would have the insight to do it!


this is my belief, I am inherently flawed and 'owe' things to people.

In the end we are ALL inherently flawed - it's part of the human condition. The challenge is to accept our flaws and not believe that we need to be punished for them or beat ourselves up for them - and, if we can, to try and rise above them.

We all deserve the best despite our flaws. If you believe you deserve the best, then that's what you'll attract.

It doesn't happen overnight. Thinking and questioning is a life long process.

Keep at it and good luck with the appointments.

Racquel, you seem to be increasingly seized by a paralysis that stops you from doing anything.

Stop blaming all the other people in your life for what is happening to you. Please take responsibility for your own happiness and your physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.

You are the ONLY one that can.

It's good to be angry and it's good to articulate what you're feeling. But remember, no-one is MAKING you 'live your life for other people'.

That has been your decision - and you CAN change that.

So, what's stopping you?

Also, in response to this. I know that I am supposed to have control over my life and that I can only make the decisions for me. But for some reason I try to do what everyone else wants because I hate making people angry. I hate the uncomfortable feeling of people being disappointed with me because of my choices that may be opposite to their ideas of what I should do. I know that I have set this up for myself, still it is SO hard to break.

Especially when it's your family. For instance, I want to eventually get a job in my field and buy my own house. My dad says that if I move out of his house that I am 'putting the rest of the family in the crap' and that I am letting them down. Its now MY turn to support him, because he has grown and supoported me (I am early 20's). I feel I should be able to leave IF I want to, and I need to set up my own life so that WHEN he is old and frail I will be in the right position to look after him. For now, I need to spread my wings and live. I know this is controlling on his part, but I can't seem to make the break for fear of hurting him/ him cutting contact with me/ him dying and me feeling guilty etc.

It's the same with my boyfriend. I can't cut cords because I am worried his friends will hate me because of the things they saw me do (lash out, throw a plate etc). Where really, I have heard them yell horrible things/ do horrible things to their girlfriend... for some reason I am STILL worried what they think of me! Why? That's silly! They are nor perfect and WHY am I giving ANYONE else power over Me and MY life! It's ridiculous! Why should *I* allow myself to be controlled/ judged by others and let it actually affect me! I have more right to judge me/ love me than they do to judge/love me. I also have every right to judge them if I feel fit and decide that THEY have the wrong view of me. They don't know me better than I do. I have to take back the power. Hmmm... silly as this sounds I am going to write a big sign in my room with this.

I can see the more that I GIVE people that power and ALLOW them to treat me certain ways/ ALLOW them to make me feel certain ways, then the more I end up feeling controlled and ATTRACTING THOSE PEOPLE! AND acting out and doing stupid things and ending up more out of control, more submissive and attracting more controlling people. The cycle goes on and on and on.

I think that's the main thing I will work on in therapy. How to set boundaries in ALL kinds of relationships. I won't feel so stupid telling a therapist that.

I seem to attract people that I need to impress... I think its because of how I was brought up. So I don't seem to settle with people that just accept me. I seem to want to try to impress those that don't accept me. And if they don't, I should just realise that they don't. Won't. Meh! Who cares!

BTW thank you very much again for everybodies patience and replies =o)

Your latest post is full of truths and great insights-and I think this time your therapy will work wonders!

There is a very strong,confident woman inside you waiting to show herself.

The best of luck to you.

I think you are perfectly entitled to impress YOURSELF for a change, and work your own plan as theirs' will never work for you.

Go for it.

Racquel, you seem to be increasingly seized by a paralysis that stops you from doing anything.

Stop blaming all the other people in your life for what is happening to you. Please take responsibility for your own happiness and your physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.

You are the ONLY one that can.

It's good to be angry and it's good to articulate what you're feeling. But remember, no-one is MAKING you 'live your life for other people'.

That has been your decision - and you CAN change that.

So, what's stopping you?
I don't mean to blame others for what's happening. I know it's MY responsibility to look after my emotional wellbeing, and I have done in the past with other bad bf's. I was able to see it much faster and just pull away. It was clear. I could do it. I could enjoy a little while of not feeling guilty and feeling happy I made the right decisions.

With this one though... its more like... I feel I am pushing him to this behaviour. *I* am the cause and *I* am the abuser, because of the times I got drunk and threw a plate, or lashed out at him or his friend for no apparent reason.

I was reading a woman's story on here about her intensively physically abusive husband. And I started to think, maybe I AM the abuser after all!

There is no excuse for physical violence, I know this. Yet I threw a plate and pushed his friend when drunk. That's far worse than what he has done! THAT is why I feel I should stay. I feel I need to 'man up' to my behaviour and 'accept responsibility' by staying and 'changing' MY abusive behaviour. A HUGE part that keeps me there is this guilt. I am not trying to sayy that what is happening in my life is other peoples issue. I know I have accepted this and allowed this and ALLOWED MYSELF to REACT this way. I feel *I* have made my bed and I need to lay in it to 'make it up' to people.

Then I try and rationalise it and say, well I didn't really drink at all before meeting him (dont drink now much, with him I was drunk every night.), I also didn't 'act out' so much and start fights.

I'm not sure if I can explain this well enough. I am happy to take responsibility etc. BUT i dont know what that is half the time!

On one hand I think the only way to take responsibility is to be back with him, give it my all and NOT make the same mistakes (throwing plates, getting drunk, being angry, lashing out his friend).

On the other I think the only way to take responsibility is to LEAVE.

I don't want this drama. I did have a relationship without so much drama. Which didn't last long due to drugs, But when the hurt and drama started I did get out! And same with the one after that...

Just I have so much guilt from this relationship that I feel I need to make up for (I know, I said that at the beginning). I do want out of drama! I just can't stop myself from feeling GUILTY! I am just SO CONFUSED!

I want a peaceful life. A loving relationship. Someone I can trust. Someone to love and love me back. I don't know I deserve it! What if I abuse them!

The other thing I feel guilty for is going away overseas. Realising how much I didn't want to be in the relationship and breaking it off over the phone rather than leaving him hanging on for 2 months to get back. And ruining my first holiday ALONE (was actually bliss now I think back! I could go a day without contact with people and I loved it- for a short time. I think I needed it), by waiting until I got back.

Though I feel it was COWARDLY of me to do it over the phone! Another side of me says, that if I did it in person. I would be right where I am now. Confused. And guilty and reconsidering.

Physical abuse is much more frowned upon! And I did it! A couple of times!. Maybe the only abusing I'm actually doing is abusing myself!

You need to forgive yourself for your past 'bad behaviour',plate throwing etc.

And any relationship where any kind of substance abuse or frequent overindulging in the same,plays a big part,is a big NO NO.

Listen to your head which is telling you that you should leave.

You forgive yourself,get on with your therapy and heal.

By the way,I like the way you are helping others out by posting your advice on theis threads-well done!

I trivialize my issues in therapy, not because I don't want to change. But because I feel they are stupid. I feel I am insecure about myself, and its stupid. Body image issues are dumb. *I* SHOULD know what to do. And I don't. And I'm stupid. The way he has behaved are normal and MY FAULT and so in therapy I am more likely to say that *I* need to change so that HE can be OK and HIS behaviour will change.

There are people that go to therapy with REAL issues. Mine are just trivial garbage that I SHOULD know how to deal with (particularly body image issues).

I did say I went to therapy to stop my abusive ways. I blamed ME! I took responsibility. I knew *I* had to change.

Its hard to explain. I'm trying not to write too much but I can't seem to articulate what I feel about the situation and why I stay.

That's the thing, I can't seem to forgive myself! The therapist can say it's a 'reaction' to being controlled which is quite normal. Yet, I come off as the abuser. I don't want to be the abuser. And me being the abuser trivializes the way he treated me. Therefore I am more forgiving of him and angry with myself.

This time,you start your therapy by allowing yourself to be honest about your true feelings-never mind him.

Therapy is about working on understanding whe we are and hopefully healing-its not about changing in order to get people's approval.

I guess I feel a bit rich forgiving myself for the things that I have done (throwing plates, breaking up)... but yet not forgiving his behaviour...

anyway, I can't wait to go to therapy again. It's a months waiting list though =o(

In therapy I did say my true feelings, even when I felt I sounded like an absolute idiot. Just not to the extent I felt it. I think this time I will just pour it out... hopefully I can

You sound like the greatest girlfriend alive and there is no way that guy deserves you!!

I suggest you stop measuring yourself against other people and their actions/reactions.

It's not about them,it's about you.

Once you find selflove and selfrespect,none of those people will matter.

I can't wait for my therapist session. I used to just think 'you're so young and silly, it'll work itself out' I was 17-20 then. I have wasted 6 years now. Same cycle (no matter how stupid it all sounds to others- i.e. body image stuff) its still important because it's affecting me big time. Even if it's stupid. I pay them $200 an hour, their job is to not judge, listen and help.

I have been thinking about the physically abusive relationship. And thinking maybe I am abusive and pushed him to act that way? Maybe I'm just mad. Either way I'll explain this is therapy and work it out. If I am an abuser. I want to stop.

That relationship started really fast. Oh puppy love! So great! We soon became isolated from friends (bad, I know) and I always blamed me for it. Don't know why. I know it was MY fault that I isolated myself. BUt I thought maybe I isolated him too! He would tell me I was the best thing that ever happened. I saved him. He was suicidal before me. Couldn't live without me. I really loved that, but felt scared at the same time. We would spend heaps of time at his friends at first. I didn't love it but accepted it. And they would make comments like about my ex like 'do you remember what you did with Sally that night! ' everone would laugh and not tell me the 'joke'. I guess they were quite derogotory to girls (we were only 17/18 though). My ex seemed different though, was a virgin, hated strippers and wouldn't go in. He stopped going out with his friends, saying he didn't like it. He used to just go quiet and go missing and they would spend all night looking for him.

When we would go out, the mood would just change. We would be all lovey dovey then he would often find a particular waitress/ bar maid/ customer/ girl at party, and keep making eye contact with her. Miss what I was saying when I was talking. I know, guys look at girls. That's fine. But it was CONSTANTLY looking back, get nervous in front of them, follow them around the room, leave me at the party on my own while he followed the girl (I know, he doesn't have to be attached to my hip all the time though!) I used to go to his house and sit alone while he played his compueter games. I made the most of that and played on another compueter to make it a couples thing. But if I would go over to join him he would have chats open and just close them quickly, look back and make sure I wasn't looking to open them again. It only made me suspiscious when he would close them. We would talk/ see each other every day about a year into the relationship. Then suddenly I couldn't get hold of him for a few days at a time. I know, I shouldn't be worried etc. But it was like we were do close, then nothing. Phone would ring out. I just tried to back off and not stress.

He got obsessed with this gas station. At first I thought nothing of it. But it was a gas station and we would detour to get to his house from mine so we could drive past it. He would drive past and keep looking at it. Like he was looking for something (not the price though, that was straight ahead and obvious). EVERY day we would go past at least once or twice. He would talk about it often. I went in one day with him, though he tried to make me stay in the car, and he completely ignored what I was saying while we were in line at the counter. Could not take his eyes off the girl there, and just acted different... maybe I was jusyt crazy!

We used to fight about it a lot. I just felt I didn't exist in public with him. I tried to shrug it off but would get jealous. Which I kept trying to fix at counselling. The fights would escalate and he would get angrier. First kicking a hole in a door, then punching them all down (he only had a few doors left in his house), then throwing things around, pushing me around, throwing things at me, yelling in my face, restraining me on the bed, telling me I was crazy/ insane, driving recklessly, threatening to kill himself and me, locking me in rooms while he was ranting and raving. I finally left and got many suicide notes, was stalked, he tried to commit suicide, said it was my fault. His family agreed. Tried to get me into therapy WITH him. I wouldn't do it. He promised to change. I still wouldn't go back. Then he would say he is going on a long driv hopefully to die and punch windows through and say its all my fault etc.

I can't help thinking maybe I was emotionally abusive and pushed him to be this way through stressing about the way he was around other girls. Maybe all guys are like that and I needed to get over it. Maybe I imagined it (though my friends did actually point it out a few times to me).

Abusers erode your selfesteem.
They twist the truth and have you believe you're the bad guy.

Emotional blackmail,such as threatening suicide,is but another form of abuse.

I think your therapy will be worth every penny you pay them.

That's the first thing abusers do is break you down, and have you believe that its you who deserve bad treatment, as they must have total control. You did well to break that control.

Healing is so hard, but your on a good path, and I admire your instinct, and the way you follow them to heal yourself.

I have also watched you on other posts you have made here, and one thing that's apparent is you love yourself enough to share that love unselfishly, and are far from stupid by any means.

You just made a mistake at a weak time in your life, (as we all do ) and gave that unselfish love to the wrong person.

So forgive yourself, just because you deserve it. >cyber hug<

Thanks for your words, they are very true. And is so needed that cyber hug!

I thought things were getting better.
I haven’t been spending AS MUCH time with him. He got angry said I was pulling away. I explained I was really stressed with my life transitions, moving and lack of job and upcoming interviews and he didn't accept it. Said I should be telling him more about my issues in life. I said I didn’t want to. Usually I do but he says I am ‘using’ him for support.

I said its too much pressure right now for me. The relationship is dragging me down too much.

He said ‘fine, now I can get on with my life and stop putting things off for you.’ He said he stays away from jobs involving music (because I used to get insecure as he had told me he may meet someone else with his passion and decide to leave me. This was 3 years ago now).

I never told him or insinuated that he can't take those jobs and follow his dream career! I just expressed how those words hurt me.

I feel guilty again. He says that’s not his intention but he does make those sacrifices for me, even though I never asked for them and I encourage those career moves.

He also wrote me this AMAZING song. He is so talented. It could be released and be really famous. Talking about how a piece of him left when I left him the first time (2 years ago). Its really heart-wrenching and it really sounds sincere and would have taken so much time.

But I feel, if he did love me that much then wouldn’t he have stopped his controlling ways. In the past year he has been better. But things that he has said like the fact he DID think negatively of me in the past but accepting of me now. Feels like a backhanded insult.

-Making me feel guilty for going back on my word and
saying he is too scared to ask me things because I always say no (I know I don't!)


Accusing me of having low libido when I wouldn’t sleep with him for this long. Saying if I loved him I wouldn’t reject him and its not fair on him. Now he says I am taking it the wrong was as he was ‘asking out of concern for me’

They all feel like controlling behaviours, yet I can't tell if I am just being overly sensitive to abusive behaviour NOW! I know that past behaviour was. But I don't know about more recently.

Is it possible for someone to write such a beautiful sincere song and yet still carry on being abusive? Its such a grand gesture that I feel I owe him another chance. I am so torn again! What if no one ever loves me that much again. Then at the same time I think 'why should a song change everything'. Especially when (I think) his later behaviours (some listed above) are also controlling.

having an amazing song written about them/ for them is every girls dream. I feel like a cow for thinking that its some sort of manipulation... like part of the cycle of abuse.

I'm sorry my explanations ae so long I just don't want to miscontrue things. I understand if people don't read them!


I edited it 3 times to try cut it down! Lol! Sorry! On a positive note- I finally got a new job =o)

Congrats on your job,great news!

Writing beautiful songs doesn't turn anyone into a loving,caring sympathetic person.

He is still the manipulative, controlling emotional abuser he has always been.

Stop it with the guilt trip.
Stop it with the hoping he will change.

Look forward to your new job,your therapy and a new life.

Here's another <cyber>!

Congrats Raquel, on the new job, and I suspect you have been more independent lately. That's a plus if I am right.

Congrats! See there is always a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel

Thank you for the congrats! And the cyber hug! =oD I'm a fan of those!

Yep Taliniman I have been more independent and I think that's part of the reason that he has stressed out and 'turned the tables' with the song.

Amicon, that is what my gut tells me! I still feel if I go back then things may be fine for a while and they will go back to being abusive. Myself esteem was getting better, now after this I can feel it going down again and my heart feels heavy. Its playing at my heart strings again. Someone that loves you wouldn't try to evoke those feelings in you I guess! I wouldn't!

and you know what? He was the same when I first met him. Could turn on the charm. Talk the sensitive talk, do the sensitive, concerned walk and yet he still managed to hurt me. He was VERY caring with others and very insensitive with me at times.

He is very aware of abusive behaviours and can point them out in other people. Yet acts so oblivious with his own abusive behaviour and always has excuses.

Even telling me about all his 'sacrifices' (which I later found were actually because he didn't have the qualifications/ avility to survive on the money), is him blackmailing me again. And I'm allowing him too.

Damn, what is wrong with me! Why can't I just let go. Realise what I have. And just go get my own life that I want and deserve. Enough is enough

Don't beat yourself up (to bad any way) as I think as we all learn, and grow, we start finding better ways to handle the reality we face called life. Its not that easy to grow, and build, and its quite challenging to pick our path, especially after what seems so long that we have been floating along, going with the flow.

Your on a good building path, so just keep going, and see where it leads, and keep the head up, so you can see down the road, and make some adjustments. Just look at what you have been through, my gosh, that was no accident you got through it, you did that, for you, so you know you have what it takes to get through anything!!

The key of life for me, enjoy the journey!

You can and you will.

Once you get your confidence back 100%,you'll look back on this and wonder what on earth possessed you.


Have you checked out various personality disorders online?

I can't stick a label on this guy-but I am of the opinion that there is something seriously wrong with him.

Glad to hear that things are looking up for you.

As far as the boyfriend, think of him in the past tense and move forward.

He is a user. They write movies about guys like him.

God bless.

I guess when you're actually in it, and have a conscience like me, then you can't see the wrong he is doing anymore.

Particularly with the last stuff I wrote about him saying he put his life on hold for me, I can't tell if it's controlling or not anymore. I thought it was. But I saw my Psych and she said it wasn't. And "well, at least he is trying to change. Maybe you should look at that." and now. I'm back to being confused. I thought seeing a Psych again would help everything! She is the one who pointed out how controlling he was before.

It's weird. Because I went for abusive men, she told me I should stop going for what's 'comfortable', because people mistake comfort for love when used to abuse.

Yet, I feel uncomfortable around him and can't sleep with him. It makes me feel sick. Yet, I feel I should because of the wrongs I have done (plate throwing etc.) But can't bring myself to do so. I feel like I should let go of the hurt and anger because I'm not perfect and I need to forgive his imperfections. And somehow forget about past hurts (I can forgive, but not forget- and not want to trust again).

Yet, I do feel comfortable with him. I try make more friends and hand out with old friends more, but there is one of my best friends that keeps telling my new friends (as a joke) about the stupid things I did when drunk- plate throwing, lashing out etc. And its annoying! I don't want people to get that view of me straight away! Im not that person, Just stupid things I have done. I've asked her to stop but she thinks its funny and I should 'lighten up'. She's given me a nickname after it therefore explains the reason to EVERYONE.

Its like I can't escape the guilt. And with Psychs saying he is 'trying to change' and that I'm ignoring it, it makes it harder.

Even if he HAS changed, I don't know how to get over the trust obstacle! People get over cheating all the time! Why can't I get over it and a few mean words!

Taliniman,

I was just reading another thread where you listed some of your relationship rules.

One being "never let them break your heart twice." I feel so much guilt with my ex, I broke his heart the first time. Now, this whole year I haven't committed and then I leave again? I don't want to be the one to break his heart twice!

The second being-"when you get dumped, why go back and get dumped again?" I don't want to be some horrible girl that dumps him again. Yet at the same time, I feel like how do I know he won't try control me again? Or dump me for someone more suited as he has said in the past (3 years ago though).

Or do your rules kind of go out the window for abusive relationships?

This Psych thing hhas thrown me again. Maybe I should find a relationship expert Psych? Or abuse expert Psych? Only thing is, the one that I went to that said why not give it a go for a few months, WAS a relationship expert! Maybe she didn't think my case was all that abusive!

The whole point of your therapy seems to be focused on this guy.

Why?

I would have thought the sessions would be about you and your finding yourself,not how to,as a priority,go through the dynamics of one particular dysfunctional relationship.

In my opinion,you might want to change therapists.

To me,you're showing many of the signs of a person who has been abused for years and who has thus come to accept the blame for the same.

His trying to change,which I don't agree that he is, is playing games in my book,and his putting his life on hold are irrelevant.

Its not about him,its about you and your recovery from many years of misery.

One being "never let them break your heart twice." I feel so much guilt with my ex, I broke his heart the first time. Now, this whole year I haven't committed and then I leave again? I don't want to be the one to break his heart twice!
My rules do not apply to him, they are for YOU! Screw him!!


The second being-"when you get dumped, why go back and get dumped again?" I don't want to be some horrible girl that dumps him again. Yet at the same time, I feel like how do I know he won't try control me again? Or dump me for someone more suited as he has said in the past (3 years ago though).
Again, screw him this is all about you, and your healing, and recovery.

Or do your rules kind of go out the window for abusive relationships?
Talaniman Rule-Love yourself enough to never allow any one to treat you badly

If they do, LEAVE.

Can you tell I like to keep it simple?


I have to add that I think your in flux, between who you were, and what your trying to be. That's okay, its normal when your finding your way. Take your own sweet time and do it right. This is about you so NO HURRY! Just have patients because if you continue down your path, you will get there.

After all, who wins the race, the speedy tortoise, or the slow and steady hare?

It's the process that counts.

From another question about not allowing bad treatment


Question from Raquel,
I agree, though I have a stupid question- How do you disallow it?

First by confronting it, and letting it be known it will not be tolerated, and taking the right actions against it, including removing yourself from the situation.

You just don't let someone treat you badly, because you love yourself too much and KNOW you deserve better so fight for it, and stand up for yourself.

Amicon, I see what you mean. And unless I work on myself I won't be able to see clear enough to protect myself from abusive relationships. Yet, at the same time I can't seem to see why I should leave THIS time, because I see SOME changes. Its weird. And exhausting. And something I should know!

Also, what do you mean by him putting his life on hold is irrelevant? Also how do you mean that you don't think he is really changing?

I'm so sick of going through therapists. But at the same time I feel I can't NOT get help.

Taliniman- that is exactly how I feel! Just back and forth, back and forth. And even if he has changed, there is still so much mistrust. Which I guess is the whole 'not allowing people to treat you badly'. I DID remove myself, but then to prevent it I should STAY removed. Going back means I have to trust and put myself at risk of hurt again with someone who made not just one mistake but many. How much can one really change!

Threads merged

Ok, so I am reading the posts where people ask what they should do if their partner says negative things about their body.

I have a huge thread about my ex, but isolating the times he did this I am wondering what other people would do. I haven't linked the threads because I want to treat it separately.

If a partner says to his partner that he prefers her skinny, yet she is classed as petite by most.

Says he prefers a smaller behind than hers/ would be more attracted to her if she was smaller.

Says she has gained weight when she has actually lost weight and says he prefers her skinnier but doesn't want to make her unhappy.

Says the girl he cheated with was thinner and therefore more beautiful

Says he prefers tall, thin girls with less curves and more boobs.

Now you can say that a woman should love her body/ self no matter what, and not allow those comments to get to her. But even if you loved your body, how would you get over the fact that you don't want to sleep with him because he has picked things out? I mean, why does he deserve your body if he is going to be critical and compare you? (especially when you have been told by others that you should GAIN wieght at times as you were clinically underweight).

How do you be with someone that you KNOW thinks these things about you? I mean, that seems to be what people think a woman should do? Just brush off the comments and deal with it.

Personally, and it's just me because I have a strong personality, I would tell the BF to get over himself. He can like me for who and what I am or hit the road.

Relationships aren't built on beauty. Beauty fades. Relationships are based on personality. My man either likes me for who I am or he can find someone else.

Uh, no. I'm not sure where you got that impression. There are certain times to brush it off. If he make the mistake of one day telling you that yes, your butt does in fact look big in those jeans or yeah, you're having a bad hair day, those are things to forgive and forget. If he is regularly critical, cheats on you, then has the nerve to compare you to the woman he cheated on you with, he does not deserve to be with you. You should not just brush it off and deal with it. You show him the door and tell him to go enjoy sleeping with a twig... I don't have anything against skinny girls. I do have a problem with guys who insist girls need to be skinny though and that go on to put girls who are skinny enough to their standards down.

Edit: hm. I think its close to my bed time. I could have sworn when I first read your post you mentioned him cheating with a skinnier woman. Now I don't see that. Its still not OK for him to be so critical though

If somebody habitually picks negative things,as you've put it, they quickly become history with me.
In fact,strike two and they'd be out.


Why be with someone who doesn't like the whole packet?

Please see that this guy is n e v e r going to be your Prince Charming,he is,a toad!

You need to see that your not being able to let go of the toxic relationship is one of the things that stops you from moving on.

Like Tal said,screw him.

You DO NOT need him in your life.

I guess there isn't one post that has said 'oh, well maybe he is changing! You should give him another go!' hah! That should be a clue for me

That,my dear,is a mega clue.

Take it from there!

I think its goes back to how things are said, how they were received, and the strength of the relationship.

You would have to be a first class boob to be a cheater in the first place, and still make the wife's body the reason you cheated. Don't know a lot of females who would stand for that excuse, without pouring hot grits on a sleeping spouse.

Secondly, gently pointing things out, is a lot different than a barrage of criticism in an uncaring way. Most females would cuss there partners out and dare them to even think about coming at them in that way ever again. The guy is still a class AAA bob for such an approach, unless he knows there will be NO consequences for his actions.


How do you be with someone that you KNOW thinks these things about you?
Got no answer for that question, but it begs another question. How can you be with some one who does those things and not kick his arse when he does it?

I mean, that seems to be what people think a woman should do? Just brush off the comments and deal with it.
If you make him pay for his bad behavior, then you can easily brush him off, because your pizzed that he disrespected you, and you will not stand for it.

This is not just my opinion, but honestly, my wife would never put up with the crap you have at all, without there being hell to pay.

Its much safer for a me to shut up, and be considerate, and respectful, and loving, than going without sleep, for fear of having breakfast in bed the hard way. I ain't that stupid. :D

Bottom line, allowing bad behavior, only invites more.

Wow this guy sounds like a grade A jerk!
Why are you still dating him??
Kick him to the curb and go no contact.

Find someone who appreciates your personality and beauty.

OK... I'm going to get yelled at... but...
I am seeing a psych. I told her about the relationship issues. I took advice from here and stated I wanted to work on myself. Thing is... the relationship is still in stand still.

II have been concentrating on restructuring my thoughts, and battling my insecurities, particularly with body image. I find I feel better about myself overall. I think the new job is helping (cross fingers). But when I am with the ex I can't help feeling like crap. Even though he says all the right things now, I concentrate on the things he did in the relationship (2-3 years ago!).

So please bear with me... I have some questions.

Do you think emotional abusers ever change?

He says he can see what he did wrong but he didn't mean to hurt me. He was just 'immature and inexperienced' in relationships.

Do you think younger people are more controlling? My friend says he has probably grown up because men are more controlling around the age of 23. (he is 27 now).

In the beginning of the relationship he said all the 'right' things. 'i want to take this slow, do things properly.' 'i won't mess you around. I'm here for you'. Then, the whole screw up relationship happened. I tell him this is why its hard to trust his lovely words now. But he just states all those things were truthful, he just screwed up and has learnt'. He seems so sincere. I can promise you he is so well liked by everyone. Is quiet, sweet, sincere, compassionate on the exterior to other people. He worked as a carer for old people for years and puts a strong emphasis on 'caring' professions. Yet how can someone like that be so harsh in a relationship? Which again makes me think I caused it. And with his put downs about how I look and me being quiet I feel if I was different the relationship would have been better.

Now I should be 'lucky' and grateful that he has been around for 1 year without sex and commitment. Yet, if I think of sleeping with his again. I literally feel sick...

BUT my psych said I am attracted to the wrong guys because I mistake love for comfort (abusive past) and I should go with people I am not comfortable with... so maybe I am just not comfortable with his because he has changed and is not abusive anymore?

Every time I think of breaking it off I think of how wonderful his next relationship will be with another girl and how I am just a nutcase.

Do you think it is normal for a woman with a relationship past like that to not forgive no matter how much they have changed? And to feel insecure and jealous around that person? (which I am working on)

he says he wants marriage and kids and doesn't want anyone else (hasnt been out with other women the whole year and no sex from me).

on one hand it sounds lovely. On the other its downright scary (even for the future) because I can't forgive a couple of things he has said from the past! I,e, he may leave me for someone else (which he swears black and blue he wouldn't now) but how would I know that!

trust is so hard to gain back! But I feel I have made him work hard to gain my trust again (to no avail) because he has wasted a whole year on me. Possibly changed. Yet I won't acknowledge it and re-trust him again. And probably leave. Then once again, I'm the big b!tch... maybe I should just embrace that title, hold my head high and answer 'yes?' when anyone swings the words at me =o). And just thank my lucky stars that I had the sense to walk away and not be stupid enough to throw my trust back in him again no matter how much he appeared to have changed.

because I deserve love, trust and respect right from day one. I shouldn't have to 'earn' it over a period of years. And maybe if he has changed, that shouldn't be of my concern because quite frankly I gave it MANY shots and it is too late. My life is too precious to 'wait' around and see if someone has changed.

BUT then... he uses the "i can't tell you the truth/ i can't tell you how i feel because you just get angry". Which I do! But the reason I get angry is because his 'feelings' are that I don't see him enough or say 'no' all the time even when I see him everyday. So it feels controlling.

when we fight. We'll both be tired and ill ask what he wants to do and he'll say just lie and hold me. But I can't do that because I feel too hurt. Then its like I am this big evil cow, and he is so loving. He acts like we would never fight if it was up to him.

he always did say I started all the fights. Which I did. But I guess after reading all my posts it was understandable why I did. Only, the better way to handle it would have been to walk away the FIRST time I was disrespected. Either the cheating or at least the blackmail straight after

Oh and I have so many doubts about this because when I broke it off with him I had 2 more relationships that were emotionally abusive. So I guess I feel I can't do better. Or that all relationships will be like this one, but at least we have done the hardest part in this one and hopefully made the changes so it saves me from being hurt by someone else and starting over

I like the sound of that carrotTalker. For some reason though I just don't see that its possible for me! And I know... thats probably why I'm not having any luck. I guess I just feel this kind of behaviour is 'normal' in relationships and every man is goiung to have something negative to say about the way I look (though different things) and therefore I may as well stick with the one I already know... stupid huh

I very much doubt he will ever change and I wonder how much longer you are going to try fitting a square peg into a round hole?

Your therapy should focus on you,not him,its for you to work through your insecurities and find the inner confidence and balance you need to live a happy,fullfilling life.

Remember that.

Have you considered personal counseling for yourself? Because no, not every man will have something negative to say about how you look. It sounds like you need a self esteem boost

You are wrong my dear, not every man is as uncaring and as tactless as the one you have now. Dump him and find out! Or at least tell him to shut the "F" up.

Standing up for yourself is a great ego boost, and self esteem builder.

i like the sound of that carrotTalker. For some reason though i just dont see that its possible for me! and i know...thats probably why im not having any luck. I guess i just feel this kind of behaviour is 'normal' in relationships and every man is goiung to have something negative to say about the way i look (though different things) and therefore i may as well stick with the one i already know...stupid huh

That type of behavior is not normal in any relationship. A man who says that is a total jerk!

My ex had several bf's like that before me, it really messed her up. I would always complement some of her clothes/outfits/body (because I seriously loved it!), but if I would make just an honest comment like "I don't like the color of that shirt or something", sometimes she would blow up at me due to her previous conditioning.

Seriously consider getting out of this relationship and overcoming the hurt from his negative comments about your body on your own. Become strong enough so you can know when a boyfriend is being a jerk, or being nice and honest with you.

No one deserves to have their body insulted, especially in a relationship.

Don't go out with him!
I think u should forget about him. You are waisting your time with him, and u can do so much better than that:)

He seems to be just using you whenever he needs something and he plays with your emotions to get what he wants. You shouldn't take that crap. I'm in a bad relationship, been in it for 13 yrs and I'm only 28. Sometimes I feel stuck with him, but my mind is all messed up because of him and what he's done to me. I'm still trying to get away from him. Get away from him now.

Well that's the thing. Therapy is concentrating on restructuring negative thoughts into positive/ neutral ones. So I try to restructure negative things he has said in the past. I feel like its something I am supposed to get over...

Taliniman- I have fought with him so many times about the stuff he has said and told him to shut up. Told him how much it hurts me. He hasn't said anything negative for a while. The problem is that I can't get over the stuff he said. So I feel big and ugly around him. I feel gross and compare myself to his perfect skinny girls all the time when around him. I don't want to sleep with him, because even though now he says all the right things, I have so many memories of him saying negative things in the past. Even though he doesn't say those things anymore I still know he thinks them.

He acts like I should get over it. And I probably should. But I don't want to open myself up again and be that vulnerable with him for fear of being negatively judged again.

He says it was because he was smoking pot back then and was comparing me to magazines (which I didn't think I was THAT far from, I was 19 and fit for gods sake! In the gym every day). Now I am older, have less time for the gym ALL the time and my body is only going to change more through pregnancy and getting older. So if he could tear 19 year old me to shreds. What is he going to say to pregnant me.

But because I have told him to shut up. And he has. I am supposed to get over things. But I cant. And I feel that makes me a bad person. Yet, if I hang out with friends, go out to pubs, go to the gym etc. I can feel beautiful and healthy and slim. With him, I feel like a rhino

Even when I lost tonnes of weight and was underweight, he said I had gained and that he prefers me thinner. Most people were worried about my health. He said I had 'let go' and gained weight and even though he preferred me thinner than that, he is happy because I am happy. Its like a hidden insult. Or maybe its just me being paranoid.
So even though he says nice things now, I still know what he has said from the past.
I am scared that no one will love me. That this is my one chance that someone will care for me and really love me, but I am missing it because I can't get over the past stuff.
Even if someone has changed seemingly dramatically, do you think it is normal for them not to be able to get over the past?
I wish I never got into contact with him again. I wish I never allowed him to show me that he had 'changed'.
I hate myself for dragging everything out. I hate myself that I can't even make one stupid easy decision.
I hate myself that I can't get over the past and start a fresh with him.
But I also hate myself that I'm not strong enough to just walk away from him. No matter how much he has changed. Because that is something I can never know.
Its one thing to trust a new person. But to trust a person who has broken your heart/ trust COUNTLESS times, is really REALLY difficult.
I know people get over far more than this though so I feel stupid that it is so hard for me.
I hate that I am wasting his time, my time and my life and youth

I don't want the drama to carry on. But I am just scared that I will get MORE drama if I leave him and end up alone or with someone worse. I guess I worry that IF he has really changed then I am missing out on a great thing. But I guess I should also have more confidence to say 'well, that's his issue. He was too late to change. His loss.'
Surely somewhere inside I realise that I deserve more and that I don't need to trust him again. I don't need to feel guilty for stringing him along. I need to trust myself and look after myself.
He seemed so innocent and caring and sensitive back then. But wasn't. Chances are its all just an act again.

Again-your therapy should be about y o u and your changing for YOU -all I hear is him,him and him.

Really,when are you going to allow yourself to matter?

Your issues go back to your childhood,that's what needs sorting out, then this sad excuse for a man won't be important anymore.

Please don't stay stuck in that mindframe anylonger.

Oh also there is no chance that he will become phsyically abusive in the future by the way, He is not like that AT ALL. And never lets me live down the times when I have lashed out.
But I have watched him lately while driving. If someone on the road annoys him, like tailgates. He will slam on the brakes (I have seen many do that) but then one guy drove up beside next to me (I was in the passenger side) and was yelling abuse at my ex and driving closer. My ex was winding him up, pulling faces etc. I told him to stop because the guy was scaring me and I didn't want him to throw something as it would hit me (we were doing 100km on a highway). My ex kept winding the guy up. Just kind of manipulating the guy to push him over the edge and then would just say he is not doing anything. Even though I told him I was scared so many times and I was the one in the firing line of the other guy.
It reminded me a bit of our relationship. My ex, pushing mine and other peoples buttons so they fly off the handle, then acting all innocent. He sometimes brags about how manipulative he was as a teenager too... which I have read is a sign someone is abusive.
Another time in the car, a guy cut him off (it was 2am in the morning). My ex decided to tail gate him and annoy the guy. The guys in the car looked pretty dodgey and pulled over, notioning me ex to pull over. He almost did but I screamed for him not to because I was scared. I think the terror in my voice made him carry on... I feel we were so lucky the guys didn't follow us...
See, I know even when people change they occasionally slip and make mistakes. But I feel there is a limit for that and it can't always be an excuse. I think he slips a little too much. But its harder to identify because its manipulative and passive aggressive, rather than outright aggressive

even when i lost tonnes of weight and was underweight, he said i had gained and that he prefers me thinner. Most people were worried about my health. He said i had 'let go' and gained weight and even though he preferred me thinner than that, he is happy because i am happy. Its like a hidden insult. Or maybe its just me being paranoid.
so even though he says nice things now, i still know what he has said from the past.
I am scared that no one will love me. that this is my one chance that someone will care for me and really love me, but i am missing it because i can't get over the past stuff.
Even if someone has changed seemingly dramatically, do you think it is normal for them not to be able to get over the past?
I wish i never got into contact with him again. I wish i never allowed him to show me that he had 'changed'.
I hate myself for dragging everything out. I hate myself that i can't even make one stupid easy decision.
I hate myself that i can't get over the past and start a fresh with him.
But i also hate myself that im not strong enough to just walk away from him. No matter how much he has changed. because that is something i can never know.
Its one thing to trust a new person. But to trust a person who has broken your heart/ trust COUNTLESS times, is really REALLY difficult.
I know people get over far more than this though so i feel stupid that it is so hard for me.
I hate that i am wasting his time, my time and my life and youth

Look, you need to drag this stuff out, because if you don't then you are never going to deal with it. That's the aim of therapy, to get you to look at your stuff and understand it.

The bottom line is - you still have doubts.
The bottom line is - he still represents someone that has belittled and abused you.
The bottom line is - you actually don't trust him to have changed.

Problem is - you don't feel that you deserve better (you say you do, but you don't really believe it).
Problem is - you're scared you won't find anyone else.
Problem is - you're thinking too much about him and not enough about yourself.

I believe that sometimes we need to close a door on part of our life, for another door to open. You will never attract what you want and you won't begin to feel happy and confident until you close the door on this man. He keeps opening your old wounds so that you remain stuck and unable to move forward. (Sorry about the mixed metaphors!)

I think that he needs to be out of your life before you can move forward.

It's harsh, but you must end it with him. He's not good for you regardless of how much he claims to have changed.

the therapy is working on changing me. And we have gone over the childhood so much... and done some cognitive schema work... a few being that I think in very black and white terms, that I carry blame for many things (due to childhood), that I feel I am flawed and no one will ever love me. That I can't make decisions because I am scared of the consequences (i.e. from childhood and being condemned for making decisons/ not allowed to make decisions.
I am trying to concentrate on writing down ANY compliments about ANYTHING from ANYONE and reading it to try and get it stuck in my head.
writing down the things I love about me.
writing down how I deserve to be treated and why its my responsibility to ensure and enforce that.
also, we are talking about things I have made a decsion about in the past and the consequences and how that made me feel. i.e finally deciding to do my honours degree when my parents told me I wouldn't be able to, and I believed I wouldn't be able to. Then I did. And came out with first class.
making the decision to break up with a drug dealer who put a price of $10 000 on me. I was HEARTBROKEN the worst I had ever been. But so proud that I placed a higher value on me than $10k! Even though my friends didn't agree with my decision.
Deciding to ditch my high school friends that were emotionally abusive. Something that I couldn't see! Then I removed myself and felt a million times better and could see clearly (probably same as what's going on with this guy!).
Breaking up with this guy for the first time. I can honestly say I never regretted that decision.
And you are right, I am bringing it back to him. And its stupid. Basically I think I am thinking 'i should feel so great about myself that I can find it in my heart to forgive and forget and allow him into my heart again'.
when really I should think 'i should feel so great. I am in control. This is my life. I am worthy and capable and can make my own decisions. This guy is not worth it. He has had a million chances. Its now about ME! I need to love me so I can allow only people who respect me into my life. Who cares what other people think. Who cares what his friends think of me! They don't know this side of him! They don't have to live with it! They don't have to throw their heart and trust into him again. They don't need to worry about being let down and wasting time again. They don't need to have to worry about being angry with themselves for allowing him to hurt them again. I do. And I chose ME.'

I don't want a life like this. I am sick of allowing this to happen. I shouldn't have to forgive any of that stuff! No matter how long ago it was! I shouldn't have to have gone through it. Worst of all. I don't want to ignore the warning signs and allow myself to be swept of my feet again by all the lovely talk and "sincerity", and be left alone pregnant/ with children because he found another play thing (which I had been warned about 2 years ago). OR I don't want my daugthers to grow up being treated this way and carrying on the cycle of abuse by finding bf's that replicate it.

He is nothing like my dad in some ways (i.e. he comes across as sweet, innocent, sincere and he is not physical. My dad is, and everyone can see that). But in other ways he is just like him. Can be lovely and kinbdhearted when he feels good but can be cruel, condescending, manipulative and controlling when the time calls for it (I,e. when he feels hurt).

I have to spread the rep Gemini-but I so agree-end it with him,and start moving forward.

I need to get some balls. And realise that I don't need to do any forgiving and forgetting. I need to look at the past, use my anger and frustration and look after myself emotionally. I need to see that even if he has changed, It was his decsion to take his sweet time (4 years) and it is not my responsibility to reward him for that now. He had the chance from day one. He kept abusing it. That's his problem now. Not mine. He is lucky I even allowed it this far. He can go crying to his friends, but more power to him because all its going to do is allow him to hide behind his hatred for himself and never really get to change.
Whereas I can change. I have already grown. I now have friends, I know can talk to people without feeling like an idiot and being shy, I can now tell people who judge me superficially (i.e. for what music I like, what my interests are, what I wear) to piss off and not let it affect me. I can assert myself (slightly better) with some people (going from NEVER asserting myself with anyone). I can also take constructive criticism and realise the need to grow. I can believe that love can exist between two people (dont believe its for me yet but I am going to work on that!) coming from being with him and believing love was a crock of sh!t and something that only brought hurt, hatred and insecurity.

Sorry about my rants if anyone actually reads them! I just need to keep reminding myself this, after I have had a mad moment and put things into perspective again.

Another thing that may mean he is not so innocent is, he is VERY aware of what abusive behaviour is! VERY AWARE. So when he says and does things and states he didn't mean to hurt me... its probably a loads of crap because he can see it is abusive if I or someone does it to him.

AND just because he feels hurt doesn't give him the right to be abusive and manipulative and controlling. I know people can feel hurt and say bad things SOMETIMES but it shouldn't be every time they are hurt and they should show SOME remorse. Which he doesn't. He makes excuses for it

Keep changing and growing-do NOT waste time worrying about him and his motives,actions and pathetic life.

Its about you now,only you.

Hashing and rehashing all the stuff about him keeps you stuck in it.

It's good to bring it out into the open to understand it - but you must let it go. It's crippling you and you can't move on.

See him as the catalyst for change and use the impetus to create a new life for yourself - without him.

I feel so lost.

its all over. He broke it off. Saying "you don't know when to stop. your negativity brings me down too much and i can't deal with it."

so I finally drove him away with my constant nit picking.

the final 2 were the last straw. They seem so stupid

he wanted me to go fishing because his friend that doesn't like me was 'kind enough' to invite me along. I refused at first because I am vegan. Anything animal related just kills me too much inside. I don't judge them but I justcouldnt stomach fishing myself. I finally agreed to go. Then before we went my friend made me realise that I was allowing myself to go back on my biggest passion/ value JUST to be accepted by people that would never accept me.

I am having a few issues at work and said I would find a new job if politics carried on. He asked me to be a driver with him. I said 'no' as I was in the middle of conversation and just explained that I have done 6 years of uni and also wouldn't go back to retail because I would feel it's a waste.

he accused me of judging him. When I know I didn't. I was with him for 3 years all up when he was a student. A driver. Then unemployed and chasing random dreams. I got angry and told him I wasn't judging him. He shut off and wouldn't talk. Which made me angrier because he made up his mind and I didn't even get to say my feelings.

I just have to write them out because I feel so guilty again. And lost. And helpless. And angry at myself. And stupid. And TORN.

my heart is beating a million miles an hour. I just want to talk to someone but its early hours in the morning here. I feel nervous. Sad. Lost.

I wish I could just sleep. I don't want him to message again because I know it will make me feel guilty.

I also feel so stupid. For so many reasons which contradict each other.

I hope I get over this. I hope one day I give a crap about myself. I hope one day I love myself. I hope one day I can find someone I can trust and loves me. I hope one day I will find someone that I won't drive away

I wasn't scared of this in the beginning. But now. I am scared that no one else will love me enough to not leave me. Not see negative things and pull me down. Not cheat and want to find someone better.

Guess I just have to try be positive and get my life organised again. Clean my bedroom. Clean the house. Work. Get back into the gym. Go out with friends.

Glad he is gone, as it sounded toxic to me from the beginning but now its about you healing.

7 STAGES OF GRIEF (http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html)

The Stages Of Grief (http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-THE-3.html)

Read and understand yourself, and your feelings.

He did you a great favour.

Accept that its over and detox from the so called relationship.

Now work on loving yourself.

When you do,you don't need another person to justify your existence.

And then,you will attract the kind of man who will love and respect you.