New Jersey just became the 14th state to legalize medical Marijuana. Corzine is going to sign the bill during his last week in office. I think this is the first time I have ever said anything nice about New Jersey.

Medical marijuana bill sent to Corzine | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/12/2010 (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100112_Medical_marijuana_bill_sent_to_Corzine.ht ml)

Yay for the guidos!

I wish it was legal when I was going through chemo... but no... instead now I suffer from bad teeth... ruined from the chemo and vomiting.

Kudos to NJ!

J_9 My aunt just went through Chemo the medicine she takes I can't even describe how she looks but I am sure you know.

J_9 My aunt just went through Chemo the medicine she takes I can't even describe how she looks but I am sure you know.

It's not pretty... It's not fun. Although my teeth are a mess (luckily the back ones that no one can see)... I'm alive.

All my best to your aunt and your family during the trying times.

Thanks J_9 we appreciate. I always considered my aunt a weak person (issues with alcohol and drugs) until now. I don't know if I could ever go through what she is going through.

Hello spit:

Last night, even Hannity thinks pot is headed for legalization.

So, if something is a crime and a lot of people have been punished, when it ISN'T a crime anymore, is there reparations? Apologies? Recognition of a wrong made right? Anything?

excon

I was watching that, and the news this morning. Can someone 'splain to me the difference between legalization and decriminalization?

Hello spit:

Last night, even Hannity thinks pot is headed for legalization.

So, if something is a crime and a lot of people have been punished, when it ISN'T a crime anymore, is there reparations? Apologies? Recognition of a wrong made right? Anything?

excon

Ex,
I really don't think anyone who was arrested before will get any type of reparations, Apologies, or anything else. And it is a shame.

Can someone 'splain to me the difference between legalization and decriminalization?Hello J:

Yes. It's a politicians way of covering his a$$ by recognizing the wrong he did, but refusing to admit it just yet.

excon

So basically it's still illegal but not punishable? If that's the case this happened to a politician in Alaska almost 16 years ago. He did not get punished because it would have cost too much to change the Alaskan constitution.

So basically it's still illegal but not punishable?Hello again, J:

Which is as stupid as making it illegal in the first place.

excon

Hello again, J:

Which is as stupid as making it illegal in the first place.

excon

Yeah... duh!! Umm, pass it this way... JK, but I am off work until Saturday night.

Seriously, on a side note. If we legalize pot, where do we stop? It is a God given gift, but in certain forms so are other drugs.

Years ago I could have one drink and be fine... but smoke one joint and have a detailed solution to the prison overcrowding problem, while dancing and singing loudly to VanHalen (sorry major memory there).

Do we legalize it and tax the bejesus out of it?

Is this a dilemma just as the health care bill is? No real solution?

Think about it.
Legalise pot then the government can control and licence the supply, but think of the TAXES they could charge on it!!

Curly I have been saying that for years. I just don't understand it at all.

J_9 I think I am in the minority that all drugs should be legal. If you want to smoke crack, snort coke, shoot heroin, and what ever they do with Meth then go ahead. People are going to do it anyway and it is pretty obvious there isn't any real way to stop them at all. So we might as well profit off it instead of Drug Cartels.

Do we legalize it and tax the bejesus out of it?

Is this a dilemma just as the health care bill is? No real solution?Hello again, J:

Of course, there's a solution... If you were watching last night, you saw Heraldo waffling on the question of legalization.. He's a wimp! He muttered something about the libertarian viewpoint that prohibition is the problem - NOT what is prohibited...

You also saw that ditzzy Republican broad repeatedly saying that keeping it illegal WILL keep it out of the hands of her children. Heraldo DID ask her where she's been living, as though HER neighborhood is different than everybody else's...

So, the question is, does prohibition work. IF it does, then we shouldn't stop. But, I don't know how much more evidence one needs other than our own HISTORY, and our own lying eyes, to prove that it absolutely does NOT work...

When we prohibited alcohol, alcohol dealers shot each other regularly... Today, you don't hear about any drive by's done by beer truck trick drivers... Are drug warriors so blind that they cannot connect those two phenomena?

But, beyond our own lying eyes, can anyone, besides ditzzy broads on TV, look me in the eyes, and tell me that the drug war WORKS, and that pot is NOT available in their neighborhoods because of it??

The answer is an unequivocal NO!

With legalization, regulation, and treatment on demand, we'll save billions of $$$'s and millions of lives. Will legalization cause a spike in drug use? I don't think so. Do you know anybody who is just chomping at the bit for drugs to be legalized so they can buy some crack?? I don't.

Do I think there won't be ANY new users?? Of course there will. But, the truth of the matter is, drug addiction IS as bad as they say... Consequently, if we offered addicts treatment on demand, I'll bet there'll be at least many addicts STOP, as there are new addicts...

Are we going to eliminate drugs no matter what? No. A certain percentage of our population can't handle liquor, but we've learned not to punish everybody because of it. Therefore, there's going to be a certain segment of the population who is going to abuse drugs...

So what? Unless, of course, you believe the drug warrior BS, that snorting line of coke makes you want to rob a 7/Eleven.

excon

It is funny Ex when I was younger Pot was so much easier to get then beer or liquor. Drug dealers don't have a minimum age requirement like the liquor stores do. But if pot was legal then it would be much harder for kids to get.

J_9 I think I am in the minority that all drugs should be legal. If you want to smoke crack, snort coke, shoot heroin, and what ever they do with Meth then go ahead.

I'm going to pose a situation to you SV... this is reality, but I cannot reveal the location.

You want to legalize ALL drugs, including meth...

What about that 3 month old baby who was given NyQuil so that it would sleep while Mommy and Daddy manufactured meth in the house. When the baby would not wake up, Mommy called 911 and they all picked up and left the house leaving the 3 month old baby in the house to die in temperatures in the teens?

Now Mommy and Daddy are on the run for child endangerment and murder.

How about the 4 year old who died 3 days after being pushed into a bathtub full of burning water after telling her Mommy (who should have been protecting her from harm) that the water was too hot. I was working in the ER the night this happened... I saw it with my own two eyes... this one is now public so I can discuss it. Her two year old sister was taken to the bathroom by a co-worker of mine because she had to "tee tee." This co-worker found bruises all over the back, buttocks and legs of this 2 year old in the shape of a hairbrush. Of course Mommy denied any wrong doing and Daddy was put in jail. A year later (last week), Mommy pled guilty to child abuse, neglect, and is being charged with the murder of her 4 year old. Her defense... drug induced psychosis... the drug... METH.

While I may agree with legalization of pot... I have seen, and still have nightmares, of the ramifications of methamphetamines that can be manufactured in the trunk of a car, or cause a home to be permanently inhabitable.

So, if you think meth should be legalized, I invite you to spend one night with me when I moonlight in the ER here in the meth highway of the country.

Hello again, J:

Of course, there's a solution... If you were watching last night, you saw Heraldo waffling on the question of legalization.. He's a wimp!

You mean Geraldo... LOL... you used kinder words than I would have.




You also saw that ditzzy Republican broad repeatedly saying that keeping it illegal WILL keep it out of the hands of her children. Heraldo DID ask her where she's been living, as though HER neighborhood is different than everybody else's...

I'm a Republican... she's not... keeping pot illegal did not keep it out of my hands now did it? Yes, you are correct... it was easier than buying beer when I was a minor. All I had to do was make a phone call and I didn't have to show ID.



But, beyond our own lying eyes, can anyone, besides ditzzy broads on TV, look me in the eyes, and tell me that the drug war WORKS, and that pot is NOT available in their neighborhoods because of it???

The answer is an unequivocal NO!


Funny, but I can go next door and buy pot if I so choose, but I now have a REAL profession that I have to answer to. Will I be impaired if I smoke a took today and go to work on Saturday? Hel1 no, but I bet if I get a finger stick because the baby moved at the opportune time I'd lose my job.



With legalization, regulation, and treatment on demand, we'll save billions of $$$'s and millions of lives.

How do we pay for treatment on demand? Here comes the new health care bill.


Unless, of course, you believe the drug warrior BS, that snorting line of coke makes you wanna rob a 7/Eleven.

excon

Do I believe that BS... damn, I've done a lot worse in my years and never even considered robbing a 7/11. You would have a fatal heart attach if you really knew my background.

BTW, whatever it was that I did... I am in recovery now for 16 years.

So, if you think meth should be legalized, I invite you to spend one night with me when I moonlight in the ER here in the meth highway of the country.Hello again, J:

Don't be mislead. Legalization has NOTHING to do with approving of drug use... As a matter of fact, drug legalizers, like myself, want to do AWAY with addiction, and believe that legalization, regulation, and the offer of treatment on demand IS the way to reduce the kind of carnage you describe.

Let me ask you this. When you moonlight in the ER, do you see any results from drinking and driving?? Do you see torn up bodies, and needless death? I'll bet you do, but I don't hear you call for alcohol prohibition.

Do you go up to the cancer wards?? What about those people who smoked cigarettes and are suffering from lung cancer. They're going to die a hideous death. I'll bet your wards are full of 'em. I don't hear you call for cigarettes to be banned.

excon

J_9 I understand what you are saying I do. But if it was legal most people wouldn't make meth in their own house anymore. When was the last time you heard of someone getting arrested for making Gin in their bath tubs? Sure some people still make moonshine but not to the degree when alcohol was illegal.

When I was a kid my cousin (who was six at the time) jumped off his couch onto a glass coffee table and got pretty messed up he still has scars on his face. The reason no one stopped him because my aunt and uncle were both passed out from drinking all day long. His sister who was 10 at the time found him tried to wake my aunt and uncle up but they were to trashed. She had to call my mom who came over and took him to the hospital. Regardless if something is legal or illegal you can't stop @$$holes from being @$$holes.

Let me ask you this. When you moonlight in the ER, do you see any results from drinking and driving?? Do you see torn up bodies, and needless death? I'll bet you do, but I don't hear you call for alcohol prohibition.


Yes, Ex... I do see results from drinking and driving. But remember I live in the middle of the meth highway as well. I've seen plenty of DOA's from drinking and driving. I've also seen a man who shot his lower jaw off because he thought that he was being attacked by aliens due to a meth induced psychosis. How do I know this? From listening to the EMS radio. I've seen full term babies die because Mom needed one more high from meth. I've seen children die... I've seen heart attacks, I don't need to go on.

Excon, I have seen more havoc wreaked from meth than from any other drug, legal (alcohol) or illegal.



Do you go up to the cancer wards??

Don't have to go there... I lived in one for 6 months.

It was SV who stated, and I quote


_9 I think I am in the minority that all drugs should be legal. If you want to smoke crack, snort coke, shoot heroin, and what ever they do with Meth then go ahead.

I have seen more damage in my neck 'o the woods with meth than I have with alcohol or any other drug, legal or illegal. More damage to the addict, more damage to the children, more damage to the loved ones.

Alcohol or pot don't do this to you... Faces of Meth | Meth Photos (http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/index.html)

When was the last time you heard of someone getting arrested for making Gin in their bath tubs?


Ummm, I live in rural Tennessee, we still have "dry" counties... I hear of it all the time. I grew up in inner cities, where I live now is almost like a 3rd world country to me.

Alcohol or pot don't do this to you....Hello again, J:

The drug war, in spite of the billions spent, hasn't stopped it either.

It's MY viewpoint that legalization and treatment on demand will REDUCE addiction - NOT raise it.

I'm not sure you quite understand the treatment on demand part. You assume that meth addicts LIKE being meth addicts. Of course, some do, but MOST don't. MOST see their teeth falling out. MOST see their lives ruined...

But, what can they DO about it? The answer is NOTHING!! You certainly don't think they have INSURANCE, do you? You certainly don't think can afford rehab, do you? IF the county offers a free rehab, there's a waiting list a mile long. You don't think they'll STOP while they're on the waiting list for rehab, do you? You certainly can't think having a waiting list is a good thing.

If we really want to reduce drug use, treatment on demand is ESSENTIAL. Did I mention how important it is?

excon

I am not saying Meth isn't horrible. I have never tried it and I never would even if it was legal. I never tried crack or Heroin either and if they made it legal I never would try it. But the sad truth is people do do it and we can stop it at all as I am sure you are well aware of that.

But if they were legal you wouldn't have to worry about some @$$hole blowing up a house because they have no idea how to make Meth. No more little kids in Philly getting hit by a stray bullet because two drug dealers are fighting over a corner.

Hello again, J:

The drug war, in spite of the billions spent, hasn't stopped it either.

It's MY viewpoint that legalization and treatment on demand will REDUCE addiction - NOT raise it.

I'm not sure you quite understand the treatment on demand part. You assume that meth addicts LIKE being meth addicts. Of course, some do, but MOST don't. MOST see their teeth falling out. MOST see their lives ruined...

But, what can they DO about it? The answer is NOTHING!!! You certainly don't think they have INSURANCE, do you? You certainly don't think can afford rehab, do you? IF the county offers a free rehab, there's a waiting list a mile long, you don't think they'll STOP while they're on the waiting list for rehab. You certainly can't think having a waiting list is a good thing.

If we really want to reduce drug use, treatment on demand is ESSENTIAL. Did I mention how important it is?

excon

Ex, to a point I totally agree with you. But I am not going to pay for the treatment of a meth addict. I have my own problems that I can hardly afford without raising my healthcare premiums.

Do meth addicts want to be addicts? No they don't

Yes, you mentioned how important treatment on demand is, but I have children to raise. I have a mortgage to pay. Do meth addicts? Most likely no. But I'm going to have to pay to make them better. How fair is that to me who works 12+ hours a day, 3-6 days a week. I have bills to pay, an unhealthy husband that I have to care for, extracurricular activities to pay for so that I raise my children in a HEALTHY environment and can still hardly afford to make my mortgage.

I am raising our future. My son got back from Iraq in October, my oldest son is leaving for Iraq on Feb. 5. Do you think I can afford to pay to raise my children as responsible adults AND pay to help addicts get better whether they want to or not? Do you realize, in real time, the failure rate of recovery?

No they don't have insurance, but neither do the gals that come to my L&D every other night because they are seeking attention from significant others or family members... this is at a cost to our state of over $600 per visit. Who pays for that? Tell me who? I do. That's who.

I have had to take my children out of soccer and cheer because of the increase in taxes in my county to pay for the indigent, for the addicts, etc.

While I am all for the legalization and taxation of marijuana, I am against the legalization of meth.

Did I tell you that I delivered a dead baby on the 11th to an addict of unknown drug? Nope. The baby did not even weigh a pound. You know what the mother did? She didn't even shed a tear, she just asked for a wheelchair to go downstairs to get her fix.

You, my love, see it from the legal side, you don't see it from the personal side. Don't tell me you do. I know you grow and smoke, but you aren't the person who goes to the ER because you thing worms have invaded your colon. You don't come up to the L&D department because you are in so much pain from withdrawal that you think you are in labor only to find out that you killed your child. You aren't the woman in room 372 who is there all alone after delivering a child because the father of your first born is in prison for shaken baby syndrome because he though Adolph Hitler was talking to him through the 13 month old trying to make him kill himself.

You see it all through the news media, you don't experience it all in person. The experiences are life changing.

No more little kids in Philly getting hit by a stray bullet because two drug dealers are fighting over a corner.

Tell me, then, how you stop the delusions by making it legal? Tell me how you stop the voices. Tell me how you stop the madness.

Okay, Meth is legal... so is crack.. so is coke...

I just shot up... do you want me to administer your meds? I didn't think so.

J_9 I guess my point is how do the drugs being illegal stop any of this?

J_9 I guess my point is how do the drugs being illegal stop any of this?

They don't. But how do the drugs being legal stop it? It doesn't. There is really no easy answer to this question.

As I said, you all see and hear it in the news... I LIVE it. This is my life in a rural community and we discuss it every time we discharge a drug patient. There is no easy answer, but legalization of ALL drugs is not the answer.

I don't work in a hospital. I lived in North Philly for 30 of 31 years of my life (I just moved to the suburbs). So what I see (or at least saw)are people getting shot for a corner. Little kids on their way to school getting hit with a stray bullet. Full fledged riots from the Warlocks and Pagans in a corner bar. I never wanted to move out of North Philly but the facts are illegal drugs make it to dangerous to live their anymore. That is the way I am looking at it.

They don't. But how do the drugs being legal stop it? It doesn't. There is really no easy answer to this question.Hello again, J:

Yes, there is. You just don't like the answer, or you don't listen. Let me repeat what I said above. I believe that legalization along with treatment on demand will REDUCE the carnage you describe.

You say you don't want to pay for treatment, yet if we ended the drug war, we'd save BILLIONS and BILLIONS, and then even more BILLIONS. Certainly, we could afford a few million to provide treatment for addicts, and you'd STILL get a refund.

You also don't see any difference between selling drugs on the street corner where there is NO regulation, and selling them in a store where a guy IS checking ID's, and not selling to children. I do.

excon

Excon, I don't think YOU get it.

I'm all for legalizing pot, but not drugs such as meth or crack.


You also don't see any difference between selling drugs on the street corner where there is NO regulation, and selling them in a store where a guy IS checking ID's, and not selling to children. I do.

Again, you are incorrect. I agree with pot... but not meth... not crack... not PCP... not heroin.

When I first started to say all drugs should be legal I wasn't even going to mention meth because of how bad it really is. But then I thought you hypocrite if you think crack should be legal then you have to say meth. Please don't think I am some hard drug supporter because I have never tried any of them.

What I am wondering is say tomorrow Obama comes out and say we are legalizing all drugs. Do you think in a year the streets would be filled with people with needles sticking out their arms and little kids running around naked and crying because they have no idea where their junkie parents are? Just wondering.

Where are the clinical trials and the FDA NDA approvals ? The answer ? THC is already an approved perscription by the
Fda.It is called Marinol.


Lets call a spade a spade here . The medical marijuana that people want approved is smoking to get high. Marinol is as effective for the purpose it is prescribed for without the 400 other harmful chemicals found in pot smoke.
If you are looking for a comparison ;morphine can be delivered in a controlled does. But smoking opium can't . Likewise you cannot deliver a controlled does by smoking pot. So all you are getting is at best ancidotal testimony to it's effectiveness. No other drugs would be approved for use with such flimsy science.

This is a law passed in NJ by legislators that bypassed the recommendations of the Medical Society of New Jersey, 8,000 physicians; The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists/New Jersey Section, 1,800 physicians; The New Jersey Psychiatric Association; and The New Jersey Chapter of the American Society of Addiction Medicine.
Across the board their objection was that there is a lack of adequate and well-controlled studies on the efficacy of marijuana to treat medical conditions.

The question boils down to this ;should marijuana for medical treatment bypass the same regulatory procedures that every other medicine is subject to ?

The question boils down to this ;should marijuana for medical treatment bypass the same regulatory procedures that every other medicine is subject to ? Hello tom:

If the federal government would release some marijuana for medical study, then the old fashioned way would work fine. But, the feds are afraid that any study will open floodgates that they don't want opened, ala the study Nixon asked for that said pot should be LEGAL.

So, as long as the DEA is threatening medical schools with prosecution IF they possess marijuana for study, it's just fine with me that the states assert their own authority and tell the fed to stick it. The federal government is NOT interested in the well being of its citizens. They ARE interested in continuing their assault on America called the drug war.

As a right wing person, you DO believe in states rights, don't you? Or is that only when it's convenient? Don't answer. I understand.

By the way, where did you cut and paste your response from? Would it be government??

excon

I'm with Ex on this one. The treatment on demand centers can be funded with just the marijuana taxes already on the books. The savings from disbanding the wannabe cops in the DEA, as they are described by real cops, could build entire hospitals in almost all the towns as small as J9's.

So, Cats... you agree that meth, crack, acid, PCP and the like should be legalized? Well, guess I'll be getting more hours in the ER with less take home pay.

I don't think you all see it from the level that I do. You read the papers, you hear the news, but you aren't in the "pit of hell." You don't see the woman who comes into the ER stoned out of her mind freaking out because she has a toothpick stuck between her teeth (yes, that's a true story). You don't see the resources that it pulls from people who DO have a true emergency.

Again, you all sit back in your comfy armchairs and make decisions based on what you hear in the news.. the biased opinions. You don't "live" with the dregs of society on a daily basis.

I see legalizing anything BUT marijuana as a potential medical nightmare and a drain on our resources.

I still invite anyone who would want to make the travel, to come live with me in my world for a week. Help me reconcile the charges for the woman who comes to my L&D department because she thinks her water broke because her son spilled a glass of water on her lap.

Don't you see that this will only INCREASE the problems we have? People don't want to be doctors anymore because of the medical malpractice... this will increase as well.

We already have a nursing shortage. We can't afford this right now. How about raising the salaries of nurses to get more people into the profession before we discuss increasing the population of hospital units. We are stretched to our limits as it is. Just as schools have a student/teacher ratio, we have a nurse/patient ratio. As the system is right now, we cannot afford to stretch our resources any more than they already are.

Why don't we try restructuring our medical staff before we legalize drugs?

I'm with Ex on this one. The treatment on demand centers can be funded with just the marijuana taxes already on the books. The savings from disbanding the wannabe cops in the DEA, as they are described by real cops, could build entire hospitals in almost all the towns as small as J9's.
As I suspected ;this has nothing to do with marijuana as a treatment... that has already been approved in a safe dosage and delivery system. This is all about the legality of a recreational drug.
There should at least be a recognition of that basic fact.


I certainly see the logic in the decriminalization of pot but I am completely with J-9 about the terrible consequences of legalizing most recreational drugs .

Excon ;the facts I cited about the other dangerous chemicals in marijuana smoke are found in muliple sources and is indesputable . The FDA would never allow such a drug on the market that has so many toxins present. They get into enough trouble when a single one gets discovered after approval.

All I have left is... you all sit back in your warm comfy homes... food on the table and continue to dictate how we should handle the "war on drugs." Legalize them... yeah right.

Until you have spent one hour in the ER, as a medical professional, you have no room to speak.

So you even know how much it costs for a one hour visit to the ER or L&D? Do you realize all of the charges involved? No, of course you don't.

You see, we schedule our nurses according to our census from the previous year. Now, if you legalize drugs... yes they are drugs... we have to increase our staffing. We cannot predict what the census would be for any given time. So, we get put "on call." That means, in my facility, $1 an hour to sit at home in our uniforms to wait for the phone to ring. We have a half an hour to get to our facility should the census increase. That means no planning, no going out to dinner, no sleep.

Pot is a drug we all, I cant' speak for everyone, used in our teens and others continue to do so, but have you ever seen the ramifications of meth first hand? No, I didn't think so.

If you all, I'm not naming anyone, think that drugs should be legalized, I suggest, before you vote, that you spend a week in a shelter, spend a week in a support program for lost loved ones.

I mean no ill harm here, but, again, you are an "arm chair quarterback." None of you know the costs, the employee resources, and/or the beds it takes to care for addicts.

As a recovering addict myself, and the child of one, I see where you are coming from. But until you have spent considerable time in the trenches you haven't a clue what it takes to run a hospital or a recovery program.

J_9: The statements you are saying are profound. I agree with them. I also see almost nothing when I look in your city with Google maps. Wow!

I do believe that THC has value in the medical community, but not that other stuff that you speak of. The government got rid of the major ingredients of meth by restricting pseudephedrine. I haven't seen any heroin arrests here at all in the paper. It doesn't mean that there aren't any.

New Jersey just became the 14th state to legalize medical Marijuana. Corzine is going to sign the bill during his last week in office. I think this is the first time I have ever said anything nice about New Jersey.

Medical marijuana bill sent to Corzine | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/12/2010 (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100112_Medical_marijuana_bill_sent_to_Corzine.ht ml)

Right on!

Don't you see that this will only INCREASE the problems we have?

I think you're too far into the forest (bless you for it) to see anything but trees. I have been there. In Navy hospitals where the heaviest drug cases on the planet come in.

I doubt that any increase will be more than the closet users coming out, and I predict that those will be the cases never seen in the ER. I would also venture to guess that with regulation, quality control will go up and ER visits will go down. Case in point - Blackpot psychosis is almost forgotten... for those unaware, blackpot psychosis is caused by moonshine being distilled through lead tubes such as car radiators.

I have always been of the opinion that all the "gateway drug" myths were true because of proximity. The pot dealer is treated the same as the heroin pusher by the law so they move in the same strata of society, competing for customers, so the pot smokers are offered the heroin or acid or coke, and, since they're all illegal, what the hey...

Tom, yes I am a recreational drug advocate. I have been my entire adult life. As for the carcinogens in marijuana smoke, note the third item in this article. It has excellent references:

Myths and Facts About Marijuana (http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/)

I understand that tobacco is also harmful and as you see ;more and greater restrictions are being placed about it's usage. It is so embedded in our culture that it's a tougher nut to crack. The additional chemicals produced by marijuana smoke are undeniable regardless if they are less or more harmful that cigarette smoke. The fact is that NO drug having so many hamful chemicals present would and could never meet perscription approval standards.

My point about recreational drugs is that we should at least be honest about the intent here. The lame duck NJ legislature and Governor call this legalizing "medicinal " marijuana... and although they make an attempt to place restrictions on the recreational aspects of their decision the truth is that the intent is to put the 'camels nose in the tent' for the eventual leglization for all purposes.

The fact is that NO drug having so many hamful chemicals present would and could never meet perscription approval standards.Hello again, tom:

Or, it COULD be that big pharma wouldn't get it's piece of the pie, cause EVERYBODY could grow their own...

I wonder if big money has anything to do with it... Nahhh...

excon

PS> By the way, what disease's have those "harmful" chemicals caused? How many people have died as a result of ingesting them?? Really. If I'm killing myself, and you know something I don't, spill it, please.

J_9: The statements you are saying are profound. I agree with them. I also see almost nothing when I look in your city with Google maps. Wow!!


Nothing to do with this discussion BUT I find this rather surprising - or shocking. You actually googled the City and area where J9 lives, based on information I would guess/believe she posted?

I find that a little bit scary - honestly, I do. I've certainly been threatened on AMHD (and in real life due to my job which is why I have 2 big dogs and a handgun) but still - did I ever think anyone would take the time to look me up?

I hope no one else reads this and thinks it's a good idea - I've never googled anyone on AMHD (or looked anywhere else) and I have the ability to do so. I sort of thought it was sort of a respect issue.

Maybe the post and my answer should be pulled before someone gets hurt.

As a recovering addict myself, and the child of one, I see where you are coming from. But until you have spent considerable time in the trenches you haven't a clue what it takes to run a hospital or a recovery program.

I spent 3 months living in a homeless shelter and eating in soup kitchens. I was in close quarters, sometimes sharing a room, with addicts and alcoholics and people with mental issues and what are basically societies cast offs. I saw first hand what drugs, and drug withdraw, can do to people.

I have no problem with pot. Used in moderation, or medically, it has more benefits than adverse side effects. It's only when it's used in excess that problems arise. Then again, the same can be said for cough syrup.

I roomed with a woman who seemed to be coming down from a meth high. She didn't sleep the first night, and was up making a bunch of noise at about 4am. The entire time she was there, 1-2 weeks, she would go off on the most bizarre, and sometimes frightening, tangents. She would talk to seemingly no one, or suddenly get up in the middle of a conversation, or start acting really nervous for no apparent reason, or just get angry at nothing.

There was a guy there who got into a lot of trouble because of drugs. He was on I have no idea what when he ended up locked in the bathroom because the handle fell off. Instead of stomping on the floor or yelling, he jumped out a second story window. He ended up kicked out because he got up at 1am one day, went into the bathroom, huffed gasoline, and started yelling and swearing loudly enough to be heard clearly through out the entire building.

I've seen what drugs can do to people. There are some drugs that just should not be available to ANYONE, especially not legally. Many drugs NEED to be regulated, some NEED to be illegal. Pot just needs to be regulated, like antidepressants.

I hope no one else reads this and thinks it's a good idea - I've never googled anyone on AMHD (or looked anywhere else) and I have the ability to do so. I sort of thought it was sort of a respect issue.


I'll admit, I googled unknown's island. Mostly because I'd never heard of it before and had no idea where it was, in comparison to the rest of the world, and was curious. I didn't go as far as trying to find his house, though, just the island as a whole.

I've seen what drugs can do to people. there are some drugs that just should not be available to ANYONE, especially not legally. many drugs NEED to be regulated, some NEED to be illegal. pot just needs to be regulated, like antidepressants.

Hheath, I'm glad you chimed in here. You said what I have been trying to say all along. There was a time when LSD was legal with a prescription.

I agree that there are drugs that should be regulated, but not all of them.

Ex here are some inconvenient facts for you .

How does marijuana affect the lungs?
Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. In addition, many marijuana users also smoke cigarettes; the combined effects of smoking these two substances creates an increased health risk. Can marijuana cause cancer?
Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.
Fact Sheet - MARIJUANA (http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm)

Chemicals in Marijuana Smoke May Harm DNA - US News and World Report (http://www.usnews.com/health/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/06/19/chemicals-in-marijuana-smoke-may-harm-dna.html)

Myth: Smoking marijuana is safer than smoking cigarettes.
Fact: Actually, smoking one marijuana cigarette may be as harmful to your health as five tobacco cigarettes, according to a study by the University of California at Los Angeles. Smoking pot leaves five times as much carbon monoxide increases the risk of heart disease, and tar has been tied to higher cancer risk.
The dangers are heightened by the way marijuana is usually smoked-deeply inhaled and held in the lungs. This causes you to breathe in 36 percent more smoke per puff than you do from a tobacco cigarette, the study said. And you hold post smoke in your lungs about four times longer, increasing the amount of exposure to possible carcinogens.
Second-hand smoke is also a hazard. In a national Institute on Drug Abuse study, five men were exposed to marijuana smoke in an unventilated room. Despite not taking a single puff themselves, they reported feeling high and the traces of the drug were detected in their systems up to five days later.

Now on response #35
I pointed out the different medical organizations in NJ that were opposed to this move by the NJ legislature. Are they all wrong and lying ? Are they part of a scientific coverup ? What happened to your fealty to the scientific profession that you would make such a claim that doctors ,scientists ,and other health professions conspire to hide the truth ?

Ex here are some inconvenient facts for youHello again, tom:

Oh, I've heard the drug warrior rants before. I've heard how it's MORE dangerous than cigarettes... But, none of you right wing drug warriors can point to ONE verified death that marijuana caused - NOT ONE.

350,000 people DIE each year from smoking cigarettes. Since pot is MORE dangerous, it would seem that you could point to ONE death - JUST ONE that pot caused!! But, you can't. That's because there aren't any. That's because drug warriors lie. There ain't no other explanation.

excon

Yeah that's right.. most marijuana deaths are labeled accidents.Yes yes I know it is only a contributing role in the accidents involved ;but in many cases it was the major contributing factor . Or are you telling me that people who smoke pot don't drive cars , mechanical equipment ?
In 2002, 120,000 people were admitted to emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems.
Given that THC has a half life and also accumulates in the human body for days you can't tell me that a significant number of users are not driving and operating equipment under the influence.
Cannabis use causes 'hundreds of deaths a year', coroner warns - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html)
Does it diminish your immune system;respiratory system;and brain functions ? Most assuredly according to Harvard .(but they aren't to be believed either )
THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html)

So if you become ill from other problems the marijuana use is also a contributory factor in the illness.

I just read your link Tom from the telegraph and I started before I was 15 and I am 31 now So I should be hanging myself any day now. According to that article. I should probably get rid of my power tools so I don't drill a hole in my head like the other guy in the article.

..most marijuana deaths are labeled accidents.Yes yes I know it is only a contributing role in the accidents involved ;but in many cases it was the major contributing factor . Or are you telling me that people who smoke pot don't drive cars , mechanical equipment ? Hello again, tom:

You went from marijuana containing "harmful" chemicals that kill, to driving while high, and THAT'S what kills you.. You didn't miss a beat, either, you didn't blink an eye, and you said it with a straight face...

But, no, I'm not aghast. I KNOW how you operate.

Check out ALL my drug posts... NEVER have I supported operating dangerous machinery while high. To outlaw a substance because a few people abuse the substance is (1) not working, and (2) it doesn't work, and (3), to think you can is sipping the koolaid.

Nope, you didn't miss a beat, but you should have.

excon

yeah that's right ..most marijuana deaths are labeled accidents.Yes yes I know it is only a contributing role in the accidents involved ;but in many cases it was the major contributing factor . Or are you telling me that people who smoke pot don't drive cars , mechanical equipment ?
In 2002, 120,000 people were admitted to emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems.
Given that THC has a half life and also accumulates in the human body for days you can't tell me that a significant number of users are not driving and operating equipment under the influence.
Cannabis use causes 'hundreds of deaths a year', coroner warns - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html)
Does it diminish your immune system;respiratory system;and brain functions ? Most assuredly according to Harvard .(but they aren't to be believed either )
THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html)

So if you become ill from other problems the marijuana use is also a contributory factor in the illness.


I'm a liability investigator and I work a TON of motor vehicle cases a year, have for a lot of years.

Where are you getting your statistics concerning MJ and accidents, including the "in many cases" statement?

EX I already addressed the chemicals in pot. It is an irrefutable fact that pot smokers are breathing in many more chemicals than the THC compounds . Many of them are the same ones found in cigarettes.. true . And since they are the same or similar you face the same health risks .

Judy
Does 30-35% of drivers involved in accidenents under the influence of cannabis represent a valid percentage to use the words "in many cases " ?


Bergeron and colleagues asked 83 men, aged 17 to 49, about their driving history and observed them in driving simulators. Men were chosen for the study because they more often engage in dangerous driving and driving under the influence of marijuana, the researchers explained.

They found that 35% of the participants had been involved in one or more road crashes with material damage in the previous three years. Thirty percent admitted to using marijuana, and 80% of those said they drove under the influence of marijuana at least once in the previous year.
"Our study found that men with self-reported DUIC (driving under the influence of cannabis) tend to be associated with an increased risk of being involved in a car accident," study author Isabelle Richer, a doctoral candidate in the psychology department, said in the news release.

Men who smoke pot more likely to be in road accidents - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-04-11-marijuana-driving_N.htm)


The Institute of Medicine's (IOM) medical marijuana study team contends in their federally published report that “For most people, the primary adverse effect of acute marijuana use is diminished psychomotor performance. It is, therefore, inadvisable to operate any vehicle or potentially dangerous equipment while under the influence of marijuana, THC or any cannabinoid drug with comparable effects” (Joy et al, 1999).


In research using a driving simulator, marijuana use before driving has seriously impacted the skills necessary to operate a vehicle safely. Roadside alertness is severely diminished as is concentration, motor coordination and the ability to react quickly. Research subjects found it difficult to judge distance and react appropriately to roadside signals and sounds after smoking marijuana. These effects were still present in the research subjects 24 hours later, demonstrating that the impairment continued long after the “high” was gone (Liguori, Gatto & Robinson, 1998).
MARIJUANA AND DRIVING: Going to Pot on the Highway (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:1uBYgLLr7bIJ:www.friendsdrivesober. org/docs/marijuana_driving.doc+33+percent+of+drivers+arrest ed+at+the+scene+of+the+accident+being+positive+for +marijuana&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

Marijuana Raises Risk of Fatal Car Crash (http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash)

DRUG TRACE FOUND IN 2 CONRAIL WORKERS AFTER FATAL CRASH - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/15/us/drug-trace-found-in-2-conrail-workers-after-fatal-crash.html?pagewanted=all)

Ex I understand that you are not an advocate of dui cannabis but I'm telling you the effects on your skills to operate machinery diminishes for a long time after the high has come down because the actives stay in your system for hours and days after usage;and the are accumulative.

EX I already addressed the chemicals in pot. It is an irrefutable fact that pot smokers are breathing in many more chemicals than the THC compounds . Many of them are the same ones found in cigarettes ..true .Hello again, tom:

Ohhhh, the drug warrior spin... Fortunately, I'm here to save the world.

Couple things. (1) Nobody said smoking pot was GOOD for you. I'm simply saying, that of the myriad compounds found in marijuana, (2) NONE of them kill you.

Yes, some of those compounds MAY also be found in tobacco since it too is an organic material. But, THEY'RE not the compounds that KILL you. Nicotine kills you.

Consequently, cigarettes kill and pot doesn't. That's irrefutable. You cannot, and have not, and never will be able to prove otherwise... Unless, you argue that people who smoke cigarettes slip on the ice and die. Since pot smokers do too, pot kills... That argument truly makes as much sense as the ones you've presented so far.

excon

Yes, some of those compounds MAY also be found in tobacco since it too is an organic material. But, THEY'RE not the compounds that KILL you. Nicotine kills you.


When you smoke pot you are inhaling tar... 5-7 times as much as in a cigarette ,carbon monoxide among other harmful compounds . If you don't think that kills then suck on a tail pipe.

You have ignored one of my earlier points that the push for medicinal hootch is a canard. Will you at least acknowlege that the real reason and rationale for it is a larger effort to get it legalized and has little to do with health concerns ?

when you smoke pot you are inhaling tar ...5-7 times as much as in a cigarette ,carbon monoxide among other harmful compounds . If you don't think that kills then suck on a tail pipe.

You have ignored one of my earlier points that the push for medicinal hootch is a canard. Will you at least acknowlege that the real reason and rationale for it is a larger effort to get it legalized and has little to do with health concerns ?Hello again, tom:

I repeat. Nobody is saying that pot is GOOD for you. No, I don't think it kills you, because if it did, you'd be able to point it out. You cannot. If it kills, I promise you, it wouldn't be a secret.

You do make a good point, however. I smoke pot. If it kills, I'd like to know. Right now I don't, irrespective of your posts. I'd actually like my government to study it and tell me the truth... Do I think that's going to happen? Bwa, ha ha ha...

I don't disagree with your last statement either. That's why I haven't addressed it. Look, if I had my way, we'd go directly from illegal to legal. But, that ain't the way it works here. We have to do it incrementally - like they're trying to do with health care, as we've discussed.

I'm sure some very sick people find relief in smoking it. It's fine with me if they do. Do I find relief from my ailment when I smoke pot? The pain doesn't go away, but it's easier to deal with. Should I apologize because I also happen to enjoy it too? Are you kidding me? You don't think there's other's out there who ENJOY their meds??

I make no bones about the fact that it should be perfectly legal for me to enjoy getting high on what I want to get high on, as long as you can get high on what YOU want to get high on. For America, that's booze, and I don't drink.

Unless, of course, you can show me that one is more dangerous than the other... (snicker, snicker)

excon

If someone is law-abiding and earning a living, I have no problem with them getting high with whatever they want, but I don't think that people on welfare should be allowed to spend taxpayer's money on drugs, alcohol, smokes and other non-essentials. I work very hard for not much money and I hate to see people who sponge of people like me with big-screen tvs, nicer apartments than mine and driving nicer cars than me.