Hi, I have been searching the net for some advice or answers to an event that has happened. First off I have been married for 12 years and we have the two best boys in the world. Recently we had a fall out just over stupid things like money,goals, and me apparently not being social enough with her female friends. I have never cheated on my wife and I don`t believe she has or plans on it. I have browsed around and everyone's answer is another guy and I should investigate further. I have done all that and she still comes home after work and lets me know everywhere she is otherwise which is hardly ever, I don't want to be a psychopath but I even went through her cell and nothing is abnormal. I trust my wife 150% but she claims she is unsure if she wants us to be married anymore and feels she has drifted away. I offered to leave for awhile and she cried and told me to stay that she does not want me to leave, We still sleep together and end up having sex sometimes, and she also says she wants to try working on a goal like going away on a holiday soon with our kids. I don't want to pester her with questions but I am going crazy not knowing if she wants to stay because she loves me or because other reasons. I need some advice as to what to do because I am really confused at what to do when she tells me she has drifted but won`t let me leave. Does anyone have a clue? Am I wasting my time with her or does this sound like it will blow over in time?
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to give input.

Maybe she told you she felt like you were drifting apart on a bad day? The best thing I think you can do, is to sit down and communicate. Ask her if something is bugging her. By simply sitting down and having open, honest, non-attacking or defensive conversations, you can eliminate a lot of problems in a relationship. Your wife has a good plan of trying to reconnect by setting up a vacation, or a get-away. That's a good idea. If she feels like you are drifting apart, ask her if she wants to spend some time re-connecting alone. Reassure her that you love her, and that you meant 'for better or for worse.'
That's my advice. Take some more time talking to her about it, and work on your relationship by reconnecting, and re-kindling the love you both share.
(also, financial problems are a big stresser in relationships and can sometimes send them straight into divorce. You could try going to couple's counseling to get some conflict resolution exercises, or take a class on money management together.)

Communication is key to any relationship. It's even more important in a marriage. Sit down and talk with her. Find out what she is thinking. If she finds you went through her cell she may go ballistic.

Financial reasons are in the top 5 for reasons for divorce. Try working on a budget.

Maybe she told you she felt like you were drifting apart on a bad day? The best thing I think you can do, is to sit down and communicate. Ask her if something is bugging her. By simply sitting down and having open, honest, non-attacking or defensive conversations, you can eliminate a lot of problems in a relationship. Your wife has a good plan of trying to reconnect by setting up a vacation, or a get-away. That's a good idea. If she feels like you are drifting apart, ask her if she wants to spend some time re-connecting alone. Reassure her that you love her, and that you meant 'for better or for worse.'
That's my advice. Take some more time talking to her about it, and work on your relationship by reconnecting, and re-kindling the love you both share.
(also, financial problems are a big stresser in relationships and can sometimes send them straight into divorce. You could try going to couple's counseling to get some conflict resolution exercises, or take a class on money management together.)

thanks. The part about the counseling I brought up and she is not interested but I am all for it. I do tell her and let her know I love her very much as much as possible without sounding pathetic. This all came out of the blue and was so random that I was completely caught off guard. I don't want her to feel the need to stay with me for our children's sake because that would be a form of torture to her. I just can not understand how she can say things like being unsure if she is in love and still wanting me to stay with her and sleep with her though. That's what confuses me the most. I have been upfront with her and I try my buns off to not freak out at her whenever she says something negative and I have kept my cool and was always willing to hear anything she had to say.I even told her that if she had eyes for someone else just to be open about it and we would take it from there, but she says constantly that there is no other. Financially we are no bill gates position but we are stable and have toys we don't need. That's another thing that I don't get about the money argument.. I still trust her in every way but I am wondering if the things and comments on the net may be true and if there is another guy, but I can not see how because she is either at work or home, when we go out, 8 out of 10 times we go together and the very odd time she will go out with friends and same goes for me. We know each others friends and never argue about it. Just lke any couple we have had our great times and our sour times.. she doesn't want to talk to any of her friends about this and doesn't want anyone to know we even had this conversation.. the last thing I want to do is be a pest and make her feel pressured into answering any questions I have. I refuse to be one of those types that will bug and bug the hell out of someone for answers, but in this case its really hard to swallow it and go on about my day not knowing what will happen when we get home.

recently we had a fall out just over stupid things like money,goals, and me apparently not being social enough with her female friends.

Are these things 'stupid' to her? Has she tried telling you why she feels the way she does, but you aren't seeing the same red flags that apparently she thinks she is?

Counseling probably could help, but I think she has a fear of being seen as a failure that could be holding her back from seeking help. It may take her some time to understand that asking for help and guidance is not a weakness and does not mean that she or you have failed at anything. It only means that you are human and that sometimes it is a good thing to see a situation from a neutral party's viewpoint. I, also, think she may be scared of being 'judged' by others if they knew what was going on. That is a fear that she needs to face.

That is a big hammer to have hanging over your head. Walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect when you walk in the door is stressful and unnecessary.

I wouldn't be wondering why too much longer, I'd be a little more direct. At some point she has to stop manipulating your emotions and either find out through therapy why she is feeling the way she is, and what she is prepared to do, or not do, to get the marriage back on track.

It is her not talking or giving any insight that has naturally caused you to be suspicious. There has to be some reason, and without any talking going on, I'd be thinking the worst too. What else can you do. She wants you and she doesn't want you. How are you supposed to figure that one out.

I'd be sleeping in the guest room myself. I would also make an appointment with a marriage counsellor, and tell her that you expect her to go if she is serious about figuring out what she wants.

Please stand up for yourself, and don't allow her to manipulate you, and take her sweet time in deciding if you are good enough to be married to or not.

She needs to smarten up, or lose a good man, and a good marriage.

Something that is stupid to you may not be stupid to her. Do you address her questions/concerns as if she is stupid?

I am also horrified that you went through her cell phone. You say you trust her but that is not what your actions show.

I see counselling - for both of you or just yourself so you can find peace.

I'm an investigator. Whenever anyone asks me to conduct a surveillance "just to prove there's nothing going on" I tell him/her that he/she already knows the truth. I feel the same about cell phone snooping.

Are these things 'stupid' to her? Has she tried telling you why she feels the way she does, but you aren't seeing the same red flags that apparently she thinks she is?

Counseling probably could help, but I think she has a fear of being seen as a failure that could be holding her back from seeking help. It may take her some time to understand that asking for help and guidance is not a weakness and does not mean that she or you have failed at anything. It only means that you are human and that sometimes it is a good thing to see a situation from a neutral party's viewpoint. I, also, think she may be scared of being 'judged' by others if they knew what was going on. That is a fear that she needs to face.

Thanks.
I suppose they are not stupid reasons to her for obvious reasons and no I have never called them stupid to her. All I said to her is that they seem small and can easily be resolved. I realize she is hurt in some way or another and I don't want to make it worse by putting her down.. im trying to just give her some space for a bit and seeing how that pans out, but I think I have to read up some tips on space giving and way too much space giving.
Thank you again for your views.

That is a big hammer to have hanging over your head. Walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect when you walk in the door is stressful and unnecessary.

I wouldn't be wondering why too much longer, I'd be a little more direct. At some point she has to stop manipulating your emotions and either find out through therapy why she is feeling the way she is, and what she is prepared to do, or not do, to get the marriage back on track.

It is her not talking or giving any insight that has naturally caused you to be suspicious. There has to be some reason, and without any talking going on, I'd be thinking the worst too. What else can you do. She wants you and she doesn't want you. How are you supposed to figure that one out.

I'd be sleeping in the guest room myself. I would also go ahead and make an appointment with a marriage counsellor, and tell her that you expect her to go if she is serious about figuring out what she wants.

Please stand up for yourself, and don't allow her to manipulate you, and take her sweet time in deciding if you are good enough to be married to or not.

She needs to smarten up, or lose a good man, and a good marriage.
Thanks for the input and advice, I am looking into counseling and trying to convince her that it can't hurt or cause anymore grief.
As for the guestroom, I kind of wish we had one right now but it's the couch for me. But every time I make my way over to it she comes and cries for me to come to bed and says she wants 1 day at a time.
I guess I'm either blind or just plain out don't get females at all anymore.
And your right I think I should be a bit harder and not so soft right now. I just don't want to come off as too hard and push her away even further I suppose.

Something that is stupid to you may not be stupid to her. Do you address her questions/concerns as if she is stupid?

I am also horrified that you went through her cell phone. You say you trust her but that is not what your actions show.

I see counselling - for both of you or just yourself so you can find peace.

I'm an investigator. Whenever anyone asks me to conduct a surveillance "just to prove there's nothing going on" I tell him/her that he/she already knows the truth. I feel the same about cell phone snooping.
Thanks for the heads up.
Your totally right and cell snooping is rather stupid. I guess after all these years this communication break down has left me wondering. Hearing the horror stories and advice from other sites did get the better of me and made my imagination run a bit wild. Please keep in mind its not a hobby of mine and I can honestly state that after 12 yrs that was the first time. We have been very free with stuff like that and leave our phones just laying around in plain view and never thought twice about it.
I don't snoop in her purse, I haven't snooped in her drawers or anything of the sort before this. I do trust her fully, but like I said I guess my imagination was running wild.
If I ever felt the urge to go as far as keyloggers,investigators,etc etc I think I personally would rather walk away before taking it that far because I think if anybody lacks that much trust they are better off without.
I do agree that it was dumb.

Women and men are so different. What you think is stupid or petty, she thinks is the end of the world.

Obviously she has concerns and without meaning to you probably made her concerns seem small and petty. No one likes that.

The fact that she asked you to go away with her, reconnect with her;


and she also says she wants to try working on a goal like going away on a holiday soon with our kids.

To me that means that she thinks you're drifting apart as a couple, that you don't spend enough time together, that she's lonely.

She doesn't want you to leave because she still loves you. She said what she said because she's hurt but doesn't know how to tell you why. She's dropping hints, like the vacation idea, but you're not picking up on those hints.

You two really need to sit down together and lay it on the line. This may be the hardest conversation you've ever had but if you remain calm and state what's on your mind, it could be a real eye opener.

Yes, therapy would be a great idea, but first I suggest approaching her. Ask her to write down her feelings, to be brutally honest, to write down what she wants in your relationship, what she feels she's missing, what she's worried or upset about. Everything.

You do the same.

Then find a sitter for the night and sit down and compare your notes. Don't hold back. Be honest with her. Tell her you're worried about your marriage, that you love her but you don't know what's going on, why she's pulling back. Let her talk, you listen, then you talk she listens. Remain calm, no matter what she says don't yell, don't get upset. Listen and hear everything she says to you.

That's my suggestion to you.

Good luck.

Women and men are so different. What you think is stupid or petty, she thinks is the end of the world.

Obviously she has concerns and without meaning to you probably made her concerns seem small and petty. No one likes that.

The fact that she asked you to go away with her, reconnect with her;



To me that means that she thinks you're drifting apart as a couple, that you don't spend enough time together, that she's lonely.

She doesn't want you to leave because she still loves you. She said what she said because she's hurt but doesn't know how to tell you why. She's dropping hints, like the vacation idea, but you're not picking up on those hints.

You two really need to sit down together and lay it on the line. This may be the hardest conversation you've ever had but if you remain calm and state what's on your mind, it could be a real eye opener.

Yes, therapy would be a great idea, but first I suggest approaching her. Ask her to write down her feelings, to be brutally honest, to write down what she wants in your relationship, what she feels she's missing, what she's worried or upset about. Everything.

You do the same.

Then find a sitter for the night and sit down and compare your notes. Don't hold back. Be honest with her. Tell her you're worried about your marriage, that you love her but you don't know what's going on, why she's pulling back. Let her talk, you listen, then you talk she listens. Remain calm, no matter what she says don't yell, don't get upset. Listen and hear everything she says to you.

That's my suggestion to you.

Good luck.

I like that idea of putting things on paper, I haven't thought of that yet, instead I used speech and got her to use it also. Maybe on paper she will feel she can be a bit more open.
I am worried about her, I don't want her to feel she needs to make a drastic decision based on things I'm willing to work out. I think I should give her some space as she has said she feels a need to breath a bit, Im not sure exactly what that means or what it is she is hoping for but I am willing to do whatever she asks for the time being.
Thanks for the idea!

I like that idea of putting things on paper, i havent thought of that yet, instead i used speech and got her to use it also. maybe on paper she will feel she can be a bit more open.
i am worried about her, i dont want her to feel she needs to make a drastic decision based on things im willing to work out. I think i should give her some space as she has said she feels a need to breath a bit, Im not sure exactly what that means or what it is she is hoping for but i am willing to do whatever she asks for the time being.
thanks for the idea!

It's often easier to write what you feel then to say how you feel. That's the way I am.

I've been with my husband since we were both 19, married at 24, 14 years, two kids, a mortgage and pets. It's not always easy. Heck, there are times that I'd love to smack him upside the head because he just isn't understanding how I feel. It's frustrating, makes you start to wonder if he really cares.

The fact is, men and women are different. Once you understand that, understand the difference, accept it and work with it, then you can solve any problem that comes along.

Whenever I feel I'm not being heard I write him a note, give it to him when he's relaxed, not stressed or just home from work. Then we discuss it.

Sometimes it leads to a fight, but the majority of the time, if we both remain calm, we get everything out in the open, deal with it and move on, with our relationship stronger then it was before.

If you can't talk to each other, tell each other how you feel, then who can you talk to? You're a couple in every way, partners, parents, lovers, friends. Don't forget that aspect of your marriage. You two have to work together.

Please keep us posted, let us know how it all goes.

It's often easier to write what you feel then to say how you feel. That's the way I am.

I've been with my husband since we were both 19, married at 24, 14 years, two kids, a mortgage and pets. It's not always easy. Heck, there are times that I'd love to smack him upside the head because he just isn't understanding how I feel. It's frustrating, makes you start to wonder if he really cares.

The fact is, men and women are different. Once you understand that, understand the difference, accept it and work with it, then you can solve any problem that comes along.

Whenever I feel I'm not being heard I write him a note, give it to him when he's relaxed, not stressed or just home from work. Then we discuss it.

Sometimes it leads to a fight, but the majority of the time, if we both remain calm, we get everything out in the open, deal with it and move on, with our relationship stronger then it was before.

If you can't talk to eachother, tell eachother how you feel, then who can you talk to? You're a couple in every way, partners, parents, lovers, friends. Don't forget that aspect of your marriage. You two have to work together.

Please keep us posted, let us know how it all goes.

Thanks again, I took your advice for myself and wrote her a note. I left out anything sounding negative but did ask a few questions. I left it for her on our TV and a went out with a friend for the evening. When I came home she was smiling and seemed happy. All I can wonder is how long that smile will last now. All I basically said was that I loved her and I understood she was upset with things and that I will always be there for her no matter what because I think of her as my best friend as well as my wife. She told me she had always tried to be the best to me and tried her hardest to be her dads favorite. ( when she said that something hit me and I'm thinking now, but almost a year now her parents separated and her dad left, he always ignored his wife in the end and started to favor a female employee he had by always going away on business trips and such. She hated that woman so much and still does to no end). I started to maybe think that this has something to do with it plus a fact that I never really connected with him very much. But its not like I have bad feelings towards him in anyway. We do talk but it is mostly work related.
I also told her in my note that I think this may be a test of some sort and how we push past it will either make us stronger or drift us apart. I told her my family and having them all there means the world to me and I would do anything it took to smooth it over.
Overall she seems to be smiling but still feels the need to go one day at a time. She still wants to go on a vacation and she wants us to take the kids away this weekend and go to a movie.
I was sort of hoping for something a bit more concrete from her but its all right for now. I think I feel way past the point of being bitter and am just ready to forget about it, never mention it again in conversation and move forward.
I have no problem giving her the time she needs. I just hope she isn`t thinking months or a year.
Mentally I don't think I could handle the suspense for long periods, but I'm not going to push my luck either.

Thanks again for your advice.
O, she never did write me back but we did sit down and talk about it.

You've broken the ice, and that is a very good, positive move.

I hope that she will talk, actually talk and get it all out there.

I hope too that you will post to let us know how you are doing.

She told me she had always tried to be the best to me and tried her hardest to be her dads favorite. ( when she said that something hit me and im thinking now, but almost a year now her parents separated and her dad left, he always ignored his wife in the end and started to favor a female employee he had by always going away on business trips and such. she hated that woman so much and still does to no end). i started to maybe think that this has something to do with it plus a fact that i never really connected with him very much. but its not like i have bad feelings towards him in anyway. we do talk but it is mostly work related.

I think you may have stubbed your toe on a very large part of what may be bothering her. Her father's desertion of the family puts some of her concerns in a different light.

You might ask her if she thinks she needs to talk to a neutral party (aka: Therapist) about what happened in her parents' marriage.

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams.... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?

Hi and thanks
Maybe your right, after 12 years and the occasional time of one of us not in the mood has a bit to do with it.
How did you change and what did you change in that case?
No she has not been at the gym or any type of extra activity to slim down.
She already is slim and has been the same weight forever.
Someone told me that maybe she doesn't feel herself or as pretty and is also adding some faults from her own life. By her doing that and thinking to hard is leading her into depression and her escape might be to pass the buck off at me.
But like I said before I am open to any ideas to get over this state.

I`m wondering what you have in mind when you say change?

Thanks

Twelve years is a reasonable time to be married and the feelings we have for our partners can vacillate enormously during that time.

Just because feelings change doesn't mean that the marriage is over. So you have sex less. Big deal. So you talk less. Big deal. So you argue more. Big deal. All of these things can be worked on and should only be of concern if you ignore them and allow then to get progressively worse.

She's troubled and confused and you're afraid and uncertain. It's awful to be afraid but you must resist the urge to hassle her about her feelings. Instead, take the initiative. Go to the movies, take the holiday, pay her some attention. Let her know that you love her via the things you do.

You're right. This is a test, and it's your love that will see you both through. It's hard to love someone when you're not certain of being loved in return, but that's what commitment and marriage are about. Sometimes you just have to keep loving them!

Hi Phantompeg,

I have an answer for you.
Read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

Yes, Communication is key but it is not the only key.
With 12 years of marriage, you've lost that sex appeal, that sexual attraction in her eyes.

Having a Goal is very important in her eyes.
In the beginning of your relationship you guys shared your goals and dreams.... after 12 years of marriage that sharing of goal and dreams turn into a list of your fail attempts.
BTW, the Goal cannot be her. It must be a challenge you have that is outside of her.

I've been where you are and yes it drove me nuts.
My personal conclusion is that I had to change... so I am telling you "You have to change." somehow someway if you want to make your marriage work.

Has she recently got fit or lost weight?



Once again I find this to be strange advice from a Psychologist. That having been said - I find attempts to "guess" what "she" needs or want to be a useless waste of energy. Having a goal is very important in her eyes? No one here but the OP (and he's not sure) knows what's "very important in her eyes."

As far as the "recently got fit or lost weight" part - if you are alluding to an affair (because I realize that's what happened in your marriage) you are simply adding something else for the OP to worry about.

I think marriage is work. I am well aware that some days I love my partner more than he loves me. Other days, he loves me more than I love him. It's ebb and flow.

I was initially concerned that OP was "snooping," but he has explained that. I'm an investigator; I do surveillances and other investigations; my advice is not to snoop unless you are prepared to address whatever it is you find - good, bad or indifferent. And OP knows that.

Maybe my problem is men who have problems in their own marriages trying to explain to other men how women think - as opposed to giving advice based on how men think (which I think they would know).

Hi, for the people that asked to be updated, first off thanks for the advice so far.
The counseling request I have made was turned down again. She says she does not see how a perfect stranger is going to read her and know her better then herself and is still not sure of going. Secondly, she has seemed to be more happy past few days but I`m not holding my breath on her happiness because she is like a roller coaster. We went to a movie this weekend and had fun and plan on going out again next week.
(new catch), past two days she sends me text messages from the bathroom No messages just snapshots of her in the shower.
Was intriguing and sexy I must say and when she comes out she is great. We rent a family movie once a week as habit and last night was the night. She practically sits on my lap to watch it and spends the time cuddling to watch, BUT the night before (sat night) we had our conversation again and she claimed she wants to try but is still not 100% sure..
I am at the point where I am now unsure and not feeling 100% on if I should move or not. But with dirty texts and things happening I`m finding it extremely difficult to decide on my next move. I really do not want to leave and I do not want her to leave but I do not know how to read this situation anymore and I almost give up.

I can understand your frustration. She almost seems to be reinventing herself. It's hard to live with someone who won't talk, won't committ, won't see a therapist, and can't decide whether they want to remain married or not.

You are left wondering what to do, and what your options are. Understandable.

I don't understand what would make her, make up her mind. What are her options. You're pretty convinced that the option of another man in the picture doesn't exist. She does not seem unhappy with you, or presented any gripes or complaints. I don't see where either of you has done anything major to cause this impasse.

Why she won't communicate directly, when she's obviously able to communicate quite effectively in all other aspects is baffling.

It may be time to seek counselling on your own to gain some insight into how her behaviour is affecting you, and maybe some options that are worth pursuing. If she continues as she is, which is pretty much a one way street at your expense, then it might be worth considering more serious measures. Hanging on a thread not knowing which end is up, has to stop sometime.

I'm curious as to what others will say about this. Is it just an unexplainable 'blip' in the marriage? Something that will pass with patience? Will a cause ever be known? Will it boil down to you staying put and just learning how to live with her the way she is?

hi and thanks
maybe your right, after 12 years and the occasional time of one of us not in the mood has a bit to do with it.
how did you change and what did you change in that case?
no she has not been at the gym or any type of extra activity to slim down.
she already is slim and has been the same weight forever.
someone told me that maybe she doesnt feel herself or as pretty and is also adding in some faults from her own life. By her doing that and thinking to hard is leading her into depression and her escape might be to pass the buck off at me.
but like i said before I am open to any ideas to get over this state.

i`m wondering what you have in mind when you say change?

thanks



I changed by being better.
She might be comparing you to others at her work.
"After 12 years, what have you accomplished."
"How many broken promises and dreams?"
This is why a Goal is so important.

I started valuing my time and my importance in the family.
I started being more selective and expect a higher quality of things.
I don't always say Yes.

Did you read the book?

The other advice might help, but the typical Oprah advice didn't help my situation. The typical solutions doesn't answer the question why are there so many divorces.



Your wife is most likely not cheating on you.
She is just not that into you or attracted to you.
Women's attraction is not based on looks, money, status, etc.
It is based on her emotions... on how you make her feel... You must gain confidence (it can be faked).
Take her to a restaurant that is not your usual place.

Read the book, there are a few things in the book that can help gain your "attraction" (Mojo) back. And it will explain in more details.

BTW, don't be needy... that is very anti-attraction.

Sorry fellah, it's over. She's afraid to end it and so are you. Sexy pictures from the shower when you're at work is one thing, but when you are in a different part of the house is quite another. She's building a shell of pretext that the relationship is still alive when you both know it's dead.


Reading any book is useless. You'll never get the relationship back. I once read a book on how to understand women. Page one read "How to understand women. As a man you never will. You might as well devote your time to an achievable goal." The rest of the book was harmonica lessons and I'm now a pretty good harp player.

My point is calling it a day can be braver than trying to make things work. You're miserable, she's definitely miserable and what's this doing to your kids, they're not stupid you know. What your wife is doing is delaying the inevitable. If you wait you will hate each other (trust me I've been there). Get out while you can still be friends. If not for each other then for the kids at least.

Madmic1967, you're new here but this is one of the best posts I've ever read! Great stuff - and funny beside.

Love it!

(The person recommending the book, by the way, is a Psychologist, believe it or not.)

hi, for the people that asked to be updated, first off thanks for the advice so far.
the counseling request i have made was turned down again. she says she does not see how a perfect stranger is going to read her and know her better then herself and is still not sure of going. secondly, she has seemed to be more happy past few days but i`m not holding my breath on her happiness because she is like a roller coaster. we went to a movie this weekend and had fun and plan on going out again next week.
(new catch), past two days she sends me text messages from the bathroom No messages just snapshots of her in the shower.
was intriguing and sexy i must say and when she comes out she is great. we rent a family movie once a week as habit and last night was the night. She practically sits on my lap to watch it and spends the time cuddling to watch, BUT the night before (sat night) we had our conversation again and she claimed she wants to try but is still not 100% sure..
I am at the point where i am now unsure and not feeling 100% on if i should move or not. but with dirty texts and things happening i`m finding it extremely difficult to decide on my next move. I really do not want to leave and i do not want her to leave but i do not know how to read this situation anymore and i almost give up.

Sheesh. I'm not surprise you're confused. All I can suggest is that you suspend judgment or decision for a while and see what happens. She does seem to be making an effort, perhaps even to reignite some excitement. (sexy texts and bathroom pictures)

Why don't you go to counseling on your own? Sounds like you need it.

It is a power play where she has all the cards to manipulate you, and is smart and aware enough, to know what the responses are going to be.

Bottom line is, you really need to make a strong move here to force her cards.

All I can tell you is what I would do, and that would be firstly to stop the game.

I would take a break from the unpredictable and selfish nature of her behavior, and leave for a few days. During that time, I would not contact her. Let her think.

Tell her what you expect in simple terms. Honesty, a decision on her commitment to your marriage, and marriage counselling. Also if it were me, I would not attempt any serious discussions, until she has agreed to your terms, which are not unreasonable.

If she chooses not to try, not to get counselling and remains unsure as to whether she wants the relationship to continue, then you have your answer.

I would stop the silly games to keep you hooked with anatomical parts that have nothing to do with rational thinking.

When you get your brain surgery degree does the school mail you an actual brain or do you work from drawings?

Just would like to know -

I had to send them the one I worked on, so I sent them my husband's. Apparently it was too small, but I passed.

He's been actually more agreeable too, win-win!

You two are a crack up! Thanks for making me laugh - I needed it today.

Some years ago I tried to donate my body to the local Med School. They refused me and said I had to be dead first.

phantompeg,

Although, I respect madmic1967's opinion and he might be right. I have seen what he is talking about and in most cases it is the norm.

However, It is not over, yet.
There is still hope.
There is still a willingness on both sides to make it better.

I wouldn't give up till I gave it my all to change myself. But of course your situation is unique to you and you are the best judge of what to do next.

Hi again, just to update those yet again.
Thanks again for the positive advice some of you have given and thanks for nothing to those that have nothing but negative cover ups for their own failures in life.
Nothing is ever over if you have love for each other and this I have learned past little while. Me and my wife have been going out together, laughing together, talking and being with friends together for the past few weeks and that is why I haven't been on here to keep posted. We have both addressed our pet peeves to each other and we have both agreed to make mental notes to not step on each others toes as best we can. Our sex live has been excellent so far so to the person that says give up its over you have lost your mojo or whatever their quote was. Spare me and others your cheap cover up for the lack of your own man hood that has left you feeling that way. With your words and anyone that agreed I feel sorry for you, you clearly fail at a lot and have a low self opinion of yourself. And if you're a pro then I feel sorry for any client you have because they deserve their money back in full. You have the worst outlook on things and its because your done with yourself.
My advice is give your head a shake and look at yourself before opening your mouth and take your own advice.
There are some things I obviously missed in my life and her the same.
My advice to anybody in this position is:
Keep a clean head, don't get angry, if you really love your partner you will work things out even when it seems like a lost cause and a few nights on the couch.
If your partner is someone you really want to work with, never lose faith in them, they love you always even when you annoy them. ( keeping in mind the problem at hand ofcourse). If you cheat you deserve everything you get.
If your clean, impossible is nothing and you should work with your partner ALWAYS.
And the biggest mistake anybody can tell you is, "give up, its over" or " your partner has lost her/his drive".

Listen to yourself, be firm, be positive, only take in positive remarks.
If its not meant to be because of more serious issues then so be it. But don't sweat the small things, they will iron themselves out eventually...
Believe in your partner and believe in yourself, because a best friend is always worth the battle if you have a love for that person.

I will still check in this site as often as I can, because I have enjoyed the comments some of you have made.
Cheers

I was hoping that you would be back with an update. I was also hoping that things were going better.

I hope they continue to improve. Good luck in the future. :)

I was hoping that you would be back with an update. I was also hoping that things were going better.

I hope they continue to improve. Good luck in the future. :)


Thanks and I`ve been meaning to mention before but had my mind on other things. But if that's your dog in that picture? Nice I have a 6 yr old male that is attached to my hip at all times. Greatest breed by far.

thanks and i`ve been meaning to mention before but had my mind on other things. but if thats your dog in that picture? nice i have a 6 yr old male that is attached to my hip at all times. greatest breed by far.

Thank you. She was a fantastic friend and companion that we lost a couple of years ago now. I hope you have many more happy years with your entire family and special companion.

Hey phantompeg,
(Just a quick disclaimer: I haven't read many more than the first couple post, but I intend to get caught up when I get the chance, hopefully soon.)
Change a few details and you sound like MY husband! We've only been married (5 years) about half the time as you and your wife, and we've got two little girls. Also, he's in the Marines, and I stay home with the babies, so I imagine our situation is actually significantly different for those reasons. Anyhow, I can still relate, just from the other side. I would like to leave and basically escape the marriage struggles and loveless-ness, but I can't/won't because I believe I still have a duty to simply hang-on, if anything for the sake of our daughters. I suspect that your wife is really just trying to do the right thing and is a little confused about what that really is. Like your wife, I too don't wish to go to counseling. We/I actually have done some from a couple different sources, but I find that it only works as a bandaid. My husband is a polite guy and will give the 'right answer' in a counseling set-up, but he won't be real. In my experience, the counselors either man-bash or pat his ego over 'having such a good heart' and simply send us on our way saying that we'll be fine. Also, my husband doesn't trust me and has looked for things thinking he'd catch something, when if fact he's the one with dishonesty on his record -he lied a decent amount in the beginning of our marriage, though to his credit he did change. Anyway, I don't know that I really have any advice; I feel like I actually have something to learn from you about my own husband and our situation. I just figured I'd chime in, and once I get a chance to go read up on all the previous posts I'll probably have more to comment on.
~'til then.

Hey phantompeg,
(Just a quick disclaimer: I haven't read many more than the first couple post, but I intend to get caught up when I get the chance, hopefully soon.)
Change a few details and you sound like MY husband!! We've only been married (5 years) about half the time as you and your wife, and we've got two little girls. Also, he's in the Marines, and I stay home with the babies, so I imagine our situation is actually significantly different for those reasons. Anyhow, I can still relate, just from the other side. I would like to leave and basically escape the marriage struggles and loveless-ness, but I can't/won't because I believe I still have a duty to simply hang-on, if anything for the sake of our daughters. I suspect that your wife is really just trying to do the right thing and is a little confused about what that really is. Like your wife, I too don't wish to go to counseling. We/I actually have done some from a couple different sources, but I find that it only works as a bandaid. My husband is a polite guy and will give the 'right answer' in a counseling set-up, but he won't be real. In my experience, the counselors either man-bash or pat his ego over 'having such a good heart' and simply send us on our way saying that we'll be fine. Also, my husband doesn't trust me and has looked for things thinking he'd catch something, when if fact he's the one with dishonesty on his record -he lied a decent amount in the beginning of our marriage, though to his credit he did change. Anyways, I don't know that I really have any advice; I feel like I actually have something to learn from you about my own husband and our situation. I just figured I'd chime in, and once I get a chance to go read up on all the previous posts I'll probably have more to comment on.
~'til then.



Please don't answer unless you've read the entire thread. It's simply counterproductive. We are all volunteers here with thousands of responses among us and a response without reading simply complicates answering a question.

Hey phantompeg,
(Just a quick disclaimer: I haven't read many more than the first couple post, but I intend to get caught up when I get the chance, hopefully soon.)
Change a few details and you sound like MY husband!! We've only been married (5 years) about half the time as you and your wife, and we've got two little girls. Also, he's in the Marines, and I stay home with the babies, so I imagine our situation is actually significantly different for those reasons. Anyhow, I can still relate, just from the other side. I would like to leave and basically escape the marriage struggles and loveless-ness, but I can't/won't because I believe I still have a duty to simply hang-on, if anything for the sake of our daughters. I suspect that your wife is really just trying to do the right thing and is a little confused about what that really is. Like your wife, I too don't wish to go to counseling. We/I actually have done some from a couple different sources, but I find that it only works as a bandaid. My husband is a polite guy and will give the 'right answer' in a counseling set-up, but he won't be real. In my experience, the counselors either man-bash or pat his ego over 'having such a good heart' and simply send us on our way saying that we'll be fine. Also, my husband doesn't trust me and has looked for things thinking he'd catch something, when if fact he's the one with dishonesty on his record -he lied a decent amount in the beginning of our marriage, though to his credit he did change. Anyways, I don't know that I really have any advice; I feel like I actually have something to learn from you about my own husband and our situation. I just figured I'd chime in, and once I get a chance to go read up on all the previous posts I'll probably have more to comment on.
~'til then.

Hi, I am by far a pro at this but keeping in mind my own struggles in life I have at the early stages that maybe a quick escape was sounding like a good idea. When we first got married we were up to our ears in debt and that lasted for a year. It was far from an exciting year in our life and I thought maybe to leave it behind and I thought about it for awhile. I had no problem with my wife but I had a problem with how we both looked at those things.. she knew I was having it rough and made a vaild point to me. She told me to stop worrying about what everyone else has and not to focus on things we want but to focus on things we had, such as our home,family,etc etc. I still felt down and curious if I could have it better some way other then what I was in.
I don`t know why you have the feeling of getting away from your husband and I don`t even know if we had the same thoughts. That is something in your head and nobody can read it but you.
In a nutshell after some time I came to realize that ( old saying) the grass is not greener on the otherside. Everyone has their fallouts, pros and cons about them.
And I took notice in what I was hoping to find and thought would be better was right in front of me the whole time but I was to young and blind to notice it.
That was about 9 yrs ago, and I never thought about it since for myself.
Plus we have grown a lot since and have actual careers now that cleared up all our debt and let us to afford things we don`t even need. Snowmobiles,boat,driving toys, trips.
But like I said, that's was just me and my experience if it helped any for you. But only you know what you want.
I am however a firm believer in staying together for the kids sake when you don`t love that person is a ticking time bomb. But again I don't know your issues but I'm guessing maybe because he is away a lot and your stuck at home with kids? That has a major role in it.