My fiancé had bad credit and a history of being unable to pay his bills, so when we got engaged this past July, we purchased my $10,000 engagement ring on MY credit, and the ring is in MY name, not his. We mutually broke off the engagement (he initiated it by saying we weren't "compatible"), and now he is demanding that I leave the ring with an unbiased third party (a legal rep) until he has paid it off, at which time he takes possession of it. I am currently in Colorado Springs and will be moving to Nebraska in three weeks. He has made all of the payments to the tune of $4,200 and he says he will continue to make them until the ring is paid off. He still owes $5,800 on the ring, and quite frankly I am nervous about leaving it behind. He appears to have good intentions, but his history of being unable to pay his bills concerns me. Although he appears to be an honorable man and has supported me financially for the past three months, I don't feel right leaving the ring. If he fails to make a payment(s), or makes a late payment, it is MY credit that will be affected. He is treatening to sue me if I take the ring with me to Nebraska.

His contention is that he has helped me financially and has already invested $4,200 in the ring.

My contention is that I moved from New Jersey to be with him in Colorado. I sold all of my belongings at a fraction of the original cost. Additionally, because he didn't have enough money to pay our bills, my credit card has had to supplement that -- and now I am $3,600 in debt on my Visa card (which had a zero balance before I met him).

It seems to me that his $4,200 investment should be made to offset the $3,600 debt on my credit card.

I really don't want to hear how stupid I was to allow the ring to be put on my credit. I've been through enough and have learned a valuable lesson. Instead, I need some sound legal advice.

Thank you.

Not sure the law, but could see if he had the ring, his best intentions(financial situation) may not allow him to pay. Rent and food may have priority.
Either way you are responsible for the debt. If you kept the ring, you would be responsible for the balance, and keep the ring.
I feel, if he gave? You the ring, it is your ring. Good Luck

Not sure the law, but could see if he had the ring, his best intentions(financial situation) may not allow him to pay. Rent and food may have priority.
Either way you are responsible for the debt. If you kept the ring, you would be responsible for the balance, and keep the ring.
I feel, if he gave? you the ring, it is your ring. Good Luck


Thank you for taking the time to give me some advice. I really just want to do the right thing without being taken advantage of.

I really don't think he would win any lawsuit. An engagement ring is clearly a gift, and gifts don't have to be returned. It's in your name and he's paid less than half the price, so he doesn't have majority ownership of it.

Keep the ring. Either keep making payments, or see if you can return it. Move on with your life. Maybe sell the ring to fund your move.

I'm trying to find an attorney in Colorado Springs. What specialty should I search for? Family Law?

That would be a good place to start. They should be able to point you in the right direction if there's someone who can better help.

This is not a family law matter. It's a CONTRACT LAW matter - an agreement to marry is an oral contract. You need an Attorney because this is NOT the usual "somebody broke the engagement, who gets the ring?" question. Whether you moved to be with him will be immaterial. My "guess" (and it's purely that) is that the Court will order that he keep the ring and make the payments OR give you the ring and YOU make the balance of the payments, plus pay him for the difference between the cost of the ring and the value of the ring.

Just a guess and I'm curious to see how this plays out.

This is not a family law matter. It's a CONTRACT LAW matter - an agreement to marry is an oral contract. You need an Attorney because this is NOT the usual "somebody broke the engagement, who gets the ring?" question. Whether or not you moved to be with him will be immaterial. My "guess" (and it's purely that) is that the Court will order that he keep the ring and make the payments OR give you the ring and YOU make the balance of the payments, plus pay him for the difference between the cost of the ring and the value of the ring.

Just a guess and I'm curious to see how this plays out.

Thanks JKT for the info. Just curious as to why you believe HE will be the one to keep the ring when HE is the one who initiated the breakup?

I suppose I didn't communicate very effectively in my initial post. I think I should be able to take the ring, sell it, and he can immediately cease making payments. Again, the ring is in my name and it was an engagement gift. AND... he was the one who decided we were incompatible. I just agreed with him one month later.

What does the ring is "in your name" mean? If he bought the ring, paid for the ring, gave you the ring, then I can see that it is yours to do whatever. I never understand why a woman wants to keep a ring that was a symbol of a failed engagement but that's another issue.

That is not the situation here - the ring apparently was purchased on your account and he is making the payments. This is most definitely NOT a clean deal.

I stand by my original advice.

Well first why in gods name anyone with bad credit would buy a 10,000 ring is beyond me to start with.

This shows some very por judgements just to start with.

Since YOU stlll owe money on your credit card, I can see holding on to it for security on the credit card debt.

I can also see if he decides not to pay any more on it, at this point also.

As noted before, can the ring merely be sold to pay off the balance and everyone goes their way

Well first why in gods name anyone with bad credit would buy a 10,000 ring is beyond me to start with.

This shows some very por judgements just to start with.

Since YOU stlll owe money on your credit card, I can see holding on to it for security on the credit card debt.

I can also see if he decides not to pay any more on it, at this point also.

As noted before, can the ring merely be sold to pay off the balance and everyone goes thier way

Oh boy, this is getting complicated. First off, I am the legal owner of the ring. We charged the ring on my credit -- It's on a Jared's credit account and I still owe $5,800. The Visa card that I mentioned earlier has nothing to do with what is owed to the Jeweler. The previous poster I think misunderstood me. I do NOT want to hold onto the ring after it is paid. If I relinquish the ring now, then what if he doesn't make the payments? It will be MY credit that is affected adversely. I would like to return the ring to him after he pays the entire balance.

Secondly, my ex is the one with bad credit and he did NOT buy the ring.
The ring was put on MY credit account after I passed their credit check.

My ex will not allow me to sell the ring... he says if I do, he will sue me because he already paid $4,200 on it.

Did you read my original post? I thought I had explained everything in clear detail.

What does the ring is "in your name" mean? If he bought the ring, paid for the ring, gave you the ring, then I can see that it is yours to do whatever. I never understand why a woman wants to keep a ring that was a symbol of a failed engagement but that's another issue.

That is not the situation here - the ring apparently was purchased on your account and he is making the payments. This is most definitely NOT a clean deal.

I stand by my original advice.

JKT, had you read my initial post, you would have seen the I am the legal owner of the ring. He had bad credit, so I charged the ring in MY name! He has made the payments thus far.

Moderator, could you please close this thread as I am getting nowhere. Thank you.

JKT, had you read my initial post, you would have seen the I am the legal owner of the ring. He had bad credit, so I charged the ring in MY name! He has made the payments thus far.


First, there is no need to be insulting. I DID read your initial post. 90% of what you posted is immaterial in the eyes of the law.

This does not in the eyes of the law make you the "LEGAL OWNER" of the ring. You are confusing possession, emotion and the law. HE made the payments; it is HIS ring. If this were, for example, an auto, he would have a claim to it by virtue of making the payments, whether the loan is in your name. This ring is also property and no different.

As I said - contract law.

I'm sorry you aren't getting the advice you apparently think works in your favor but I am telling you what the law is.

I agree - moderators should close this thread and you should consult with a CONTRACT Attorney.

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws (http://marriage.about.com/od/rings/a/ringreturn.htm)

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws (http://marriage.about.com/od/rings/a/ringreturn.htm)

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck


That's a good site but as I said from the "top," this is a different situation because the loan is in her name.

I believe it's anyone's guess how a Court would order. This is not a case where "he" has simply purchased a ring and the engagement has been broken which is the "usual" scenario.

I read that Judy and I am interested to see how it works out. I personally think he is SOL. I am looking at it like this if I had a girlfriend and she buys a car only her name is on the title and I make $5,000 worth of payments on it then we break up I have no right to that car. But maybe it is different.

JKT, Yes I agree with that, You couldn't give me good advice for an Attourney, Gave me a red. This woman is looking for Answers.
I don't have an answer, But sounds like you are saying, give the Ring back and trust him(a KNOWN Credit Risk)and hope he pays and doesn't destroy your credit. And if he doesn't Pay, You can pay thousands for an attourney to correct.
I heard possession is 9/10's of the law. What is the New law?

Stratmando, I appreciate your kind words and willingness to help. I really don't think any judge would order me to give the ring back when OVER 50% is still owed on the ring. My good credit is the only thing that I have in my life right now that protects me. I have no family or support system. I am going to TRY to find an attorney so that I know the best course of action.

I couldn't care less about the ring -- it is my credit that is at stake, and STRATMANDO, I thank you for understanding my position. :D

In PA if a man buys a woman an engagement ring than a few months later the woman breaks off the engagement, the ring MUST be returned. In PA an engagement ring is a conditional gift. I have a link that shows what states an engagement ring is conditional.

Engagement Ring Laws (http://marriage.about.com/od/rings/a/ringreturn.htm)

But your case is different. My opinion on the matter (please didn't kill me for giving an opinion on the legal boards) is that it is your ring since your name is on everything but he made the payments so you might have to pay him back. But then again he just might be SOL because no one forced him to make those payments. I don't know but hopefully the link helps. Good Luck

I appreciate and respect your advice. But HE was the one who broke the engagement and ordered me out of his house within 60 days. His only reason for breaking the engagement was that we are "incompatible." :confused:

That's a good site but as I said from the "top," this is a different situation because the loan is in her name.

I believe it's anyone's guess how a Court would order. This is not a case where "he" has simply purchased a ring and the engagement has been broken which is the "usual" scenario.


JKT, I appreciate your posts as well as the others. All I want to do is keep the ring until he makes the last payment and then return the ring to him. I even offered to have a legal document drawn up reflecting that. He says that is "unacceptable" and that I have to leave the ring in Colorado. I say he is bullying me with his strong personality.

I appreciate and respect your advice. But HE was the one who broke the engagement and ordered me out of his house within 60 days. His only reason for breaking the engagement was that we are "incompatible." :confused:

I think it is strange that he wants the ring back when his name isn't on the credit. Sure he made payments on the ring but I don't see how that makes it "his" regardless of who ended the relationship. If I were you I would just make the payments if he want to take you to court let him. I can't see a judge making you give back the ring or pay him back. But I could be wrong.

I think it is strange that he wants the ring back when his name isn't on the credit. Sure he made payments on the ring but I don;t see how that makes it "his" regardless of who ended the relationship. If I were you I would just make the payments if he want to take you to court let him. I can't see a judge making you give back the ring or pay him back. But I could be wrong.


Your advice makes sense. I asked him the very same question that you just posed and his response was that he has already invested $4,200 in the ring and wants to have the diamonds set into a piece of jewelry for himself. If I wind up keeping the ring, it is going to be sold on eBay.

Your advice makes sense. I asked him the very same question that you just posed and his response was that he has already invested $4,200 in the ring and wants to have the diamonds set into a piece of jewelry for himself. If I wind up keeping the ring, it is going to be sold on eBay.

I forgot to finish my previous sentence -- If he keeps making the payments, the ring will be returned to him. If not, the ring will be sold on eBay. That is the plan, contingent upon an attorney's advice.

Judy, If you were her Attourney, would you try to help her keep the ring, or would you charge her, go to court, and hope ring goes back to him as the Law states, Or would you try to help your Client?

Stratmando--

What you are missing here is that the question is too complicated to give a "yes" or "no" answer to.

Because laws vary by states and by local area, and because this is a contract with complications attached to it, I think the only REAL option is to go to court and get it signed, sealed, and LEGAL.

Your advice really isn't advice. Your advice has no bearing on the LAW, and your belief that attorneys are just out to screw you is a skewed belief. Many attorneys go into law so that they can HELP people.

Either way--I'd see an attorney about this entire situation, because an attorney (one you're paying to represent YOUR interests) is going to have a better idea on how the laws work in a specific area than any layman might.

I have been staying out of this one because it is a contract law not a family law matter. Honestly, you should go pay a lawyer in your area to tell you exactly what your rights are in that area I am not from CO so don't know those laws as well as I do my own states. You keep saying that you want to keep the ring and return it to him after he makes the payments. Do you really think you could make enough on eBay to cover the rest of the cost? You said he has been supporting you for the last three months why haven't you gotten a job to support yourself and not just used your credit card? Frankly, it really dosen't matter that the only reason he gave you for not following through with the marriage is because he felt you two were "incompatable" was very responsible because enough marriages end in divorce anymore if he could foresee that coming and stop it before it got that far great! This isn't a clear yes or no anser I could easily see it go either way.

The original poster is still here, still providing information, and still looking for answers.

I'm not closing this thread.

I am, however, going to delete any and all personal attacks that are NOT an answer to the original question at this point.

You're all adults. Act like it, please.

I would recommend transferring the debt and the ring to him. If his credit card company will not allow you to transfer the debt to his card (or a new one), then find a third party lender. Then it becomes between them and him, instead of between you and him. If they charge higher interest because of his poor credit, that's HIS problem.

That's a great suggestion, but unfortunately not an option because his credit is extremely poor and he has no available credit on his cards.

When I stated he was supporting me, I was referring to our rent and utilities. I live with him.


Again - this is CONTRACT LAW. None of these details matter. Why he broke the engagement doesn't matter. It's broken but the ring was purchased in one name, paid for (this far) in another.

I know you don't want to hear it but you need an Attorney.

Agree that as long as OP is coming back and doesn't want the thread closed it should remain open - HOWEVER, the correct/accurate legal advice has been given (in spades) and anything else that is being posted simply complicates the main issue.

It's CONTRACT LAW.

Stratmando, I appreciate your kind words and willingness to help. I really don't think any judge would order me to give the ring back when OVER 50% is still owed on the ring. My good credit is the only thing that I have in my life right now that protects me. I have no family or support system. I am going to TRY to find an attorney so that I know the best course of action.

I couldn't care less about the ring -- it is my credit that is at stake, and STRATMANDO, I thank you for understanding my position. :D


Understanding your position - and we pretty much all do - and giving you accurate legal advice are two different things. I would suggest that you check where people post, what threads they answer, before you believe/trust anyone, me included. High school students are posted "advice" in the past based on what they learned in Junior High. Likewise, auto mechanics could be posting on this board. Whenever anyone says, "I'm not sure," "I heard," "I don't really know but ..." run for your life.

This also opens up the whole question of why a $10,000 engagement ring when there is a poor credit history? In fact, there's a whole thread on this same subject. I think it's called something about whether an engagement ring is important.

Like you, I have a very nice engagement ring BUT my husband was a Doctor of Pharmacy and could well afford it.

This thread should be linked to any thread for anyone considering this same thing - my credit, your payments.

Understanding your position - and we pretty much all do - and giving you accurate legal advice are two different things. I would suggest that you check where people post, what threads they answer, before you believe/trust anyone, me included. High school students are posted "advice" in the past based on what they learned in Junior High. Likewise, auto mechanics could be posting on this board. Whenever anyone says, "I'm not sure," "I heard," "I don't really know but ..." run for your life.

This also opens up the whole question of why a $10,000 engagement ring when there is a poor credit history? In fact, there's a whole thread on this exact same subject. I think it's called something about whether an engagement ring is important.

Like you, I have a very nice engagement ring BUT my husband was a Doctor of Pharmacy and could well afford it.

This thread should be linked to any thread for anyone considering this same thing - my credit, your payments.


JKT -- You truly are helping me, and I appreciate it. Per your advice, I am going to seek an attorney. We thought it would be okay to do it that way because I have good credit, and in his current situation, he is able to make the payments -- although every month when the payment is due, he hands me cash, and I make the payment in person at the Jeweler.

That's a great suggestion, but unfortunately not an option because his credit is extremely poor and he has no available credit on his cards.

There are private lenders. As I said, you are not limited to his credit card. Even someone with bad credit can get a loan if they are willing to pay higher rates. If he wants to keep the ring, that's what he needs to do.

I agree with Judy that you should consult a contract attorney.

But basically if he wants to keep the ring he has to assume the loan. The alternative, as has already been stated, is for the two of you to sell the ring so he can be paid back. I personally think that will lead to more complications.

It's not reasonable for you have to assume the risk (of him not paying regularly). It's quite reasonable that you don't want to do that since you've already shouldered a big chunk of the risk in this relationship.

By the same token, it's totally understandable that he wants to be in possession of the ring if he is paying for it.

Transfer the loan to him. An attorney can help you do this and probably give you a lot of other good advice.

There are private lenders. As I said, you are not limited to his credit card. Even someone with bad credit can get a loan if they are willing to pay higher rates. If he wants to keep the ring, that's what he needs to do.

I agree with Judy that you should consult a contract attorney.

But basically if he wants to keep the ring he has to assume the loan. The alternative, as has already been stated, is for the two of you to sell the ring so he can be paid back. I personally think that will lead to more complications.

It's not reasonable for you have to assume the risk (of him not paying regularly). It's quite reasonable that you don't want to do that since you've already shouldered a big chunk of the risk in this relationship.

By the same token, it's totally understandable that he wants to be in possession of the ring if he is paying for it.

Transfer the loan to him. An attorney can help you do this and probably give you a lot of other good advice.


Thanks so much for your advice. This just might be the best resolution, and I'll definitely pursue this option. Would you please close this thread? I received the help I came here for.

Thanks to all for your time and willingness to provide valuable information.

Happy New Year to you and your families!

JKT -- You truly are helping me, and I appreciate it. Per your advice, I am going to seek an attorney. We thought it would be okay to do it that way because I have good credit, and in his current situation, he is able to make the payments -- although every month when the payment is due, he hands me cash, and I make the payment in person at the Jeweler.


I understand and no one ever thinks that things won't work out - but if they don't... WOW!

What you've gone through really will (hopefully) help someone else. I'm sure some day you'll look back and be grateful you got out of the relationship but getting from here to there is difficult.

Nothing is a waste if you learn something.

Let us know how it works out.

I understand and no one ever thinks that things don't work out - but if they don't ... WOW!

What you've gone through really will (hopefully) help someone else. I'm sure some day you'll look back and be grateful you got out of the relationship but getting from here to there is difficult.

Nothing is a waste if you learn something.

Let us know how it works out.

Judy -- Okay, will do, and thank you again for your time and advice. I hope the year 2010 brings you much joy and happiness.

Best advice sell the ring immediately, pay the loan off $5800.00 (assuming you can get that for the ring) dividing any remainder (debt/excess) and go your separate ways.

I agree with JKT, this situation will all fall in a Judge's hands as there really isn't going to be a precident for the situation.

Im going to jump in and say something after reading this ENTIRE thread. Maybe its from left field. But its going to cost more then $800 is my guess to hire a lawyer and battle it out if it goes there. Why not keep it simple. You could look into your local small claims court. Most have a $5000 limit. And they could settle the issue for you without lawyers. Once you have a decision then you will know how to proceed and your not out a lot of dollars. Plus you have a standing court order. This whole deal isn't rocket science. Keep it simple and try going that route.

Best advice sell the ring immediately, pay the loan off of $5800.00 (assuming you can get that for the ring) dividing any remainder (debt/excess) and go your seperate ways.

I agree with JKT, this situation will all fall in a Judge's hands as there really isn't going to be a precident for the situation.

Funny thing just happened -- I had another heart-to-heart with my soon-to-be ex, and he has agreed to allow me to sell the ring. He's willing to take the loss of what he's paid thus far.

Funny thing just happened -- I had another heart-to-heart with my soon-to-be ex, and he has agreed to allow me to sell the ring. He's willing to take the loss of what he's paid thus far.

Communication is a wonderful thing. Good for you on avoiding that headache!!

Communication is a wonderful thing. Good for you on avoiding that headache!!!!

Thank you... I feel so much better. :p

Funny thing just happened -- I had another heart-to-heart with my soon-to-be ex, and he has agreed to allow me to sell the ring. He's willing to take the loss of what he's paid thus far.

I've also read the entire thread and cleaned up some of the garbage. But I tend to disagree with this solution to a point.

I think you do have a right to sell the ring, however, I think you should use the proceeds to first pay off the loan, then split the difference with your ex.

As pointed out an engagement gift is a conditional gift. However, there are mitigiating circumstances here, that might go either way in a court. So the most fair and equitable solution would be to split any proceeds after the balance of the loan is paid. This way, he mitigates his losses, and you get something for the inconvenience you have suffered.

I've also read the entire thread and cleaned up some of the garbage. But I tend to disagree with this solution to a point.

I think you do have a right to sell the ring, however, I think you should use the proceeds to first pay off the loan, then split the difference with your ex.

As pointed out an engagement gift is a conditional gift. However, there are mitigiating circumstances here, that might go either way in a court. So the most fair and equitable solution would be to split any proceeds after the balance of the loan is paid. This way, he mitigates his losses, and you get something for the inconvenience you have suffered.

Ah, understood, but there won't be any proceeds. We are selling it for the balance owed to Jared's, which is over 50% of the original value.

Hmm jewelry tends to appreciate, not dpreciate, especially that much in such a short space of time. I would shop around, I think you can get more for it, unless Jared grossly overpriced it. Have you had it appraised?

But that brings up another point I was going to drop. I agree with Chuck that he had no business spending $10K for a ring he could not afford.

Hmm jewelry tends to appreciate, not dpreciate, especially that much in such a short space of time. I would shop around, I think you can get more for it, unless Jared grossly overpriced it. Have you had it appraised?

But that brings up another point I was going to drop. I agree with Chuck that he had no business spending $10K for a ring he could not afford.

I was educated immensely on selling used rings. You are fortunate if you can sell it for more than 1/3 of original price. Getting over half price is considered very good!

Again - this is CONTRACT LAW. None of these details matter. Why he broke the engagement doesn't matter. It's broken but the ring was purchased in one name, paid for (this far) in another.

I know you don't want to hear it but you need an Attorney.

Agree that as long as OP is coming back and doesn't want the thread closed it should remain open - HOWEVER, the correct/accurate legal advice has been given (in spades) and anything else that is being posted simply complicates the main issue.

It's CONTRACT LAW.

Judy, I want to thank you again for providing some good, sound advice. I appreciate the time you took in responding and wish you only the best in 2010. I think we can close this thread, can't we?

Just as a note - I know fine jewelry. Jared is vastly overpriced. Gold has gone up in value but diamonds, particularly those that are overpriced, do not appreciate.

Happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge than I have but I recently decided to sell some expensive jewelry and was shocked at how the diamond market has dropped. The motto seems to be "buy high, sell low."

OP is right on target with this.

Closed at the OP's request