Multiple threads merged

Please keep all questions regarding the same issue in the same thread

We are in our latter thirtys, have a child together, live separate, email or call each other occasionally, and see each other almost every two weeks. She is very insecure, feels she's not in my 'league', accuses me constantly of messing around on her. I tell her all the time that I love her, she's my soulmate, she's my angel, she's the one, etc. etc. Anyway, every time we get together she goes into one of her drilling sessions about why other women are emailing me, why I have friends that are females, and so on. I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide. I have many friends, male and female, we like the same tthings, snowboarding and what not, but these are friends I've had for a long time. Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her. Two weekends ago I was at a get together at a friends house and my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there. I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking. Actually I ended up leaving earlier because two other friends, being two females Im not allowed around, were coming. So anyway, last weekend while I was with my girlfriend, and she was drilling me, I told her that I left my buddies get together because of the two girls that were coming. So she starts in with, "why would they invite those two knowing full well that you are not allowed around them?" I simply told her that I can't tell my friends wife who she can or can't invite to her own house. So then she told me, "well now your not allowed over his house either!"
I do get so tired of her accusing me of things and being so insecure. I just had enough and I let her know it. I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore.
So anyway, she's mad at me, she won't forgive me, she says she can never trust me, and she wants to break up again. I love her, I want to spend the rest of my life with her. Any suggestions or insight? Do I just give up all my friends? Im not sure if that would even satisfy her. I want to make it work, and I also want her to feel secure.

You can't make it work with an insecure person no matter how hard you try. She is constantly going be accuse you of things because it is all in her head. She needs help, professional help. Why do you have to give up your friends who you knew before her? What happens if your out with her and you glance too long at a girl walking by?

I understand that you want to try your hardest to make it work, especially since the two of you have a child together, but she is way to demanding and controlling. She might as well keep you lock inside the house so she can watch your every move.

This relationship is unhealthy and some where down the road your going get fed up so she needs to change, not you.

I believe it is time to let her go. She seems to use the break up as a scare tactic to get her way since she knows you come back.

This time let her go. Spending your time with someone that makes you walk on eggshells is no fun, it's stressful and it eventually makes you into another person. I know this. I was in a relationship like that, I'm just getting out of it. I was completely different; I would triple think my decisions based on what he would think, I would be scared to take any decisions without his input-- it was just not a very good relationship.

You may have had your good times, of course, but it's time to let her go so she can see herself and what an ugly character she's become.

I assure you, she'll come back to you and plead and perhaps maybe she will change. For the meantime, let her go on her merry way with her empty threats.

Sarah

The accuser, she has nothing to accuse you of.

Wow, this is amazing. It is called black mail and controlling.

Get rid of her. Who cares if she can not forgive you. Forgive you for what telling her the truth. For telling her how you feel. It is her problem she can not handle it.

It is good to know that you finally had enough and stood up for yourself. Sometimes these things happen for a reason. You do not need this.

Hope your ready...

Be a good dad, love your child, and tell her to shut the frakk up, and leave you alone. Her behavior is unacceptable. You must love the punishment she doles out.

Change your passwords.

SHE ALLOWS WHAT??

Perhaps she is insecure because you two have been together long enough to have a kid together, but you only email or call each other see each other every two weeks. Do you live in different states or something? If you love her so much why are you only emailing and seeing each other every two weeks? The whole relationship seems strange to me. Perhaps this is the source of her distrust. Looking on the outside I'd think you were either married or cheating on her too.
But if you are tired of it, leave her but take care of the child you made.

You say you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her, how do you know? You don't spend anytime with her now. You must like this drama.
You don't tell a woman she is your soulmate, the love of her life and call her occasionally. Do you two live in different states? This sounds hinky to me.

I love her, I want to spend the rest of my life with her..

If you love her and want to stay with her, go into therapy with her. There, you can work on yourself, on your readiness to be half of a healthy, equal partnership as a couple and as parents. Encourage her to work on herself, on what she needs to relax and feel secure. Let the therapist guide you into working out your boundary issues (You set no boundaries. She controls the relationship and wouldn't respect your boundaries if you set them.)

Commit to a year.

You say you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her, how do you know? You don't spend anytime with her now. You must like this drama.
You don't tell a woman she is your soulmate, the love of her life and call her occasionally. Do you two live in different states? This sounds hinky to me.

First off, thank you all for your responses. We live in the same state, abou 25 miles away from each other. We were living together up until about 5 months ago because of financial difficulties. We are planning to live togther again when we get the financial capability again. We are not married, and no, Iam not and never would cheat on her. I do not like the drama either, the little bit of time we do have together is too valuable to me.

25 miles is not a great distance and why do you only talk on the phone occasionally. That is what I don't get. I would not be able to understand why I would only get an occasional phone call or email from someone who claims he loves me and I his soulmate, especially if you don't live that far away. I mean if you can go party with friends why can you not go see her and your child. She could be feeling this way because of that.
At any rate, if this bothers you leave and don't keep going back.

Is she worth ditching all your friends? Are you okay with someone directing your life and choices? Are you prepared to have a parole officer as a partner?

Me thinks no.

Sarah

I bet if you were to tell her who not to hang out with, where not to go, etc she would leave you so quick and wouldn't care.

A relationship isn't suppose to have these rules attach to it because she has trust issues.

Sooner or later your going get sick of her long list of demands. Believe me!

We are in our latter thirties, have a child together, live separate, email or call each other occasionally, and see each other almost every two weeks. She is very insecure, feels she's not in my 'league', accuses me constantly of messing around on her. .
Though she sounds and may be obsessive, your unavailability to her does not help the matter any. Why are you only talking to each other occasionally and seeing each other almost every two weeks? You don't live that far away from each other. I think your actions maybe fostering her insecurity. You go out with your friends but you only see your soul mate, the mother of your child, the woman you say you love, almost every two weeks. That is whack!

Leave the woman alone then and stop going back.

If you love her and want to stay with her, go into therapy with her. There, you can work on yourself, on your readiness to be half of a healthy, equal partnership as a couple and as parents. Encourage her to work on herself, on what she needs to relax and feel secure. Let the therapist guide you into working out your boundary issues (You set no boundaries. She controls the relationship and wouldn't respect your boundaries if you set them.)

Commit to a year.

This is great advice. It is something we have talked about doing before. For now she is looking to get some counseling on her own for some other unrelated (or possibly related in some way) issues by herself. But for now we won't be doing it together. Thank you.

Is she worth ditching all your friends? Are you okay with someone directing your life and choices? Are you prepared to have a parole officer as a partner?

Me thinks no.

Sarah

No I don't want that, but I also want to consider her feelings as well. What Im not sure about is if I give up some of my friends, will it make the difference? When you love someone, aren't we supposed to make comprimises to accomidate that person in our lives? Or is that wrong. I've never been this in love with anyone before.

I think if you spent some/more time with her you may see a difference. I'm not understanding why you are not spending time with this woman you say you love.
But if she does indeed have problems you may need to give it up until she gets some help.

I bet if you were to tell her who not to hang out with, where not to go, etc she would leave you so quick and wouldn't care.

A relationship isn't suppose to have these rules attach to it because she has trust issues.

Sooner or later your going get sick of her long list of demands. Believe me!

Hey Liz, you have some great advise and I agree with what you are saying. Isn't it normal for a woman to wonder about what her man is doing when they are away with them, like on trips, like snowboarding. My girlfriend does not snowboard, in fact she isn't really athletic in anyway, not to say that's bad, I love her to death. But I have a certain group of friends that I have a lot in common with. Is there any way to make her feel better or more secure? Other than just letting her go or letting some friends go. Thanks.

I think if you spent some/more time with her you may see a difference. I'm not understanding why you are not spending time with this woman you say you love.
But if she does indeed have problems you may need to give it up until she gets some help.

Hey homegirl, right now its hard for us to get more time together due to her work hours, our finances, the distance, and my work hours, then she has a daughter of her own to take care of as well.

I see, well I wish you luck. Hope you make the right decision.

I see, well I wish you luck. Hope you make the right decision.

Thank you

She can only get away with what you let her get away with my friend. Stand your ground or she will run over you. Let her disrespect you, and she will. Its up to you really to set the boundaries of good behavior for yourself.

She can only get away with what you let her get away with my friend. Stand your ground or she will run over you. Let her disrespect you, and she will. Its up to you really to set the boundaries of good behavior for yourself.

So true. Maybe Im the one with security or esteem issues for worrying about all this. Maybe I'm the one who is too afraid to let go, I guess I'm afraid it won't prove anything and she will never come back.Sometimes I ask myself why I put up with it, other times I wonder if Im the problem. So many things to think about. I know that no two people think the same way or feel the same way, I just don't understand why I feel I try to pay more attention to how she feels but she doesn't seem to care as much as mine. Im so confused. Thanks Talaniman.

I just don't understand why I feel I try to pay more attention to how she feels but she doesn't seem to care as much as mine. Im so confused.

OK. So you're confused. This is stretching your brain in different directions. You feel strongly that you want to be with her, that she's the one, yet her behavior it truly impossible to be around. Her compulsion to control is suffocating. Despite your rationalizations, it's hard to imagine going deeper into this independence-draining relationship and being OK.

People near you must be telling you what we've been telling you. You have probably had many of the thoughts others are presenting to you. But, somehow, the reasoning of direct observers and cyber-opinionators like us doesn't clear things up for you.

This reasoning says Get Out Now or address what needs to be addressed—determining how she sees your role and value in her life, clarifying the terms of interaction in your relationship, which means the "Rules of Play" that establish what is and is not OK, and the drawing of boundaries or lines that neither of you can cross.

Address these things and you won't be confused. If you can't work them out with her, she's not the one for you. She's not even safe to be around. If, on the other hand, you can have clear roles/value, terms, and boundaries, you might get what you want with her.

Threads merged.

Hello all. Back with another problem with the girlfriend I need some input on. I asked before about why mygirlfriend is insecure and possibly controlling. We live some distance from each other and don't spend a lot of time together. Anyway, things have been fine between us lately and I think we got a lot of issues cleared up. I had plans for this weekend with some friends to go snowboarding, but she decided she would be able to come down for the weekend to spend time together with me, so I cancelled my other plans to be with her instead. I just talked to her a little while ago over the phone, she told me she will call me tomorrow before she comes down. I asked what time because I would like to get some things done in the morning away from the house before she comes, and if I know what time she will call, I'll make it a point to be here when she does. She told me she doesn't know, so I said that if I'm not here then, just come down anyway, I will probably be back by the river. She says no, if she doesn't talk to me first on the phone, she won't be coming, I asked why, she says just because. I said I'm not just going to sit around the house all day waiting for a call when I can get something done in the mean time. She says, well why not. I just said whatever, goodnight.
What is she trying to pull now? Does anybody know what if any kind of game she is trying to play? I just can't understand her sometimes. Please don't just suggest that I need to get away from her, or I need to move on. Im trying to figure out if there is some logic, no matter how immature it is, to why she does these things. Thank you.

She is basically wanting you to 'jump' when she calls, regardless of whatever other priorities you have in life. A person like this isn't someone that will ever respect your time or be able to communicate in a productive way. These types of back door control tactics destroy relationships and you sound like a reasonable guy so I think you should stand your ground and not feed this behavior. If she says she won't come down if you don't answer when she first calls, tell her "wow, that's too bad because I was so looking forward to seeing you". Let her marinate in her own bad behavior.
The other thing is cancelling plans to see her. Don't you guys plan your time together in advance? Are you always at her beck and call? If you are always dropping everything to cater to her demands, you'll just create a monster.

Pathisfer;1690301, She is basically wanting you to 'jump' when she calls, regardless of whatever other priorities you have in life.

Is there a reason for this? What motivates someone to expect someone else to jump and be at their beck and call? And why would they want to be with someone who would fall for that?

Some people are so insecure or narcissistic that they need that type of attention and when they don't get it, they feel betrayed or unimportant. Healthy people understand that they are not the center of the universe.
Why would someone want to be with a person who would fall for that? It validates their ego and gives them control. In your situation, you are enabling unhealthy behavior and actually not really supporting her growth as a person, you are stunting it.

But what should I do? I don't want to break things off with her, we've been in this relationship for 2 and a half years and have a child together. I don't want her behaviour to continue.

The only behavior you can change is your own and that is setting limits, not giving in to her. You can always try couples counseling. If you choose to do nothing, then it will only get worse and both of you will be miserable and the relationship won't last. You are also teaching your child unhealthy ways to communicate and problem solve, right?
She has no incentive to change because she is getting what she wants at your expense so you are going to have to summon the courage to set boundaries or seek a professional if you are unable to do it on your own.

Your supposed to sit home, and wait for her to show up, no matter the time, so she can be sure your in love with her the way she wants. She needs that.

For as perfect as you think she is, she has her own flaws, that may make her incompatible with you sometimes. A lot depends on the way you handle your differences.

Honest communications are ideal, but difficult, as she seems to want it her way. Either you give in, or it will be a very rocky time.

The distance between you helps nothing at all, and may be making things worse. That's why she wants you to prove how much you miss her. If you don't give up all your plans and give her your full attention, your in deep doodoo!!

sabrewolfe (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/sabrewolfe.html) agrees: very good answer, but why would she need that to be sure I love her?
(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/sabrewolfe.html)

Because sometimes insecure people need some kind of control, and a lot of attention, to feel good about themselves. That's part her, and partly the distance, and time that separates you.

Because sometimes insecure people need some kind of control, and a lot of attention, to feel good about themselves. Thats part her, and partly the distance, and time that separates you.

That's so sad she feels that way, it honestly breaks my heart to think she feels insecure with me. I love this woman to death, I don't know how else to help her feel more secure about that other than letting the control issues go on and try not to complain. Maybe that's one reason I've let it happen this long. Just wish there were another way. Thanks Talaniman.

Read this, and see if it fits,

Long Distance Relationship Advice | The Frisky (http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-handle-this-seven-ways-to-survive-a-long-distance-relationship/?cnn=yes)

I think that you need to accept that this type of behaviour is not healthy or normal. It certainly does not seem to make either of you happy does it?

I recommend you look at a great website - "Shrink 4 Men". It might give you some understanding of your partner's behaviour, which I would suggest verges on the abusive. I do warn you though, you might be upset by what you read.

It's really hard, and it may mean you'll lose her, but it's important that you gently but firmly start setting boundaries. You can't change her behaviour, but you can change your own response to it. The more you pander to her demands and try to "do things her way", the more you'll paint yourself into a corner.

I would suggest that you might think about seeing a counsellor on your own so that you can work through managing her manipulative behaviour.

I also think the both of you going to counseling together would also be a great benefit

I think that you need to accept that this type of behaviour is not healthy or normal. It certainly does not seem to make either of you happy does it?

I recommend you look at a great website - "Shrink 4 Men". It might give you some understanding of your partner's behaviour, which I would suggest verges on the abusive. I do warn you though, you might be upset by what you read.

It's really hard, and it may mean you'll lose her, but it's important that you gently but firmly start setting boundaries. You can't change her behaviour, but you can change your own response to it. The more you pander to her demands and try to "do things her way", the more you'll paint yourself into a corner.

I would suggest that you might think about seeing a counsellor on your own so that you can work through managing her manipulative behaviour.

I read all the information provided by the website you suggested, it was very informative and opened my eyes too much more understanding. I would like to start a thread about personality disorders and hopefully gain more perspective about it. I have many more questions and think maybe others can share their own experiences and knowledge. Thank you.

Threads merged.


Hi, I had previously posted a few questions about my girlfriends behaviour. I had a lot of great input and advice which was very helpful. One inparticular suggested a website which discussed personality disorders, narcistic behaviour, historiac, boarderline, etc. and symptoms of them and the damage it can do to the victim of that in the relationship. It was very informative, but still left me with some curiosity about it and how to handle someone who possibly has a personality disorder. I would like to know if anyone has any experience and or knowledge to share about it. Thank you.

First, does she fit, any of those, or does she have maybe something else. Mental health is touch and go, and sketchey at best. She could have more than just one of those personality disorders, and she could have various other issues you still don't know about.

What are her behaviours? List them as best you can. Mood swings, personality glitches, any tendencies she has.

Personally I suggest you go to a counseler, they'd be best to help in learning about these things, how to cope with these things, and how to pay attention.

Be open minded, and respect her no matter what. A disorder is not who a person is, it's what they deal with whether they like it or not. So be aware for that.

If she seems like she might have something let some one know, talk to her about it. If you can't be open and honest, then there isn't much else you can do.

Peace and kindness

The personality disorders you listed are the ones that are most difficult to treat, according to psychologists. A great book on Borderline is Understanding the Borderline Mother by Christine Lawson and Quit Walking on Eggshells.
People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck deals with narcissistic type people.

Be very careful that you don't diagnose her. I have a master's in psych and have to be careful too, because, as far as I'm concerned some days, most of the people in my life are nutcases.

The only ones who can legitimately diagnose her are psychologists or psychiatrists. I can't, you can't, even she can't diagnose herself. In fact, there are a few psychologists and psychiatrists I've know whom I wouldn't let near me! And, like someone said earlier in this thread, it often isn't just one thing -- someone with a borderline personality might also have OCD or someone who's histrionic might also be depressed and get panic attacks.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you want to know "how to handle someone who possibly has a personality disorder." Would you act differently if she is narcissictic instead of borderline? What if YOU'RE the one with the personality disorder?

Nestorian, her symptoms match much of those of narcissism, being manpulative, disregarding my emotions, pushing the blame on me for her behaviour, dissociating her flaws and way of thinking as being mine, being very defensive, constantly accusing me of cheating on her, being controlling, and some historiac behaviour as needing to be the center of my attention.
I have tried to discuss these things with her but never get anywhere with it because she will just throw it back at me saying that I'm the one with the issues.

Nestorian, her symptoms match much of those of narcissism, being manpulative, disregarding my emotions, pushing the blame on me for her behaviour, dissociating her flaws and way of thinking as being mine, being very defensive, constantly accusing me of cheating on her, being controlling, and some historiac behaviour as needing to be the center of my attention.
I have tried to discuss these things with her but never get anywhere with it because she will just throw it back at me saying that I'm the one with the issues.
Why on earth are you trying to diagnose her?? If you were my boyfriend, I would be livid.

Wondergirl, Im just looking to get some others experience dealing with any of these disorders.

Wondergirl, Im just looking to get some others experience dealing with any of these disorders.
So how does your girlfriend fit into the scheme of things?

Why on earth are you trying to diagnose her???? If you were my bf, I would be livid.

Because I believe she has a problem, and so do many other people that know her. She herself has admitted a few times of having problems but will not seek professional help. Don't be upset, I love my girlfriend and I'd like to know how to deal with it better.

So how does your gf fit into the scheme of things?

As far as what?

I lived with 2 borderlines in Boarding school. They were very difficult to deal with and needed therapy 2-3x a week plus medication. At times they could be very charming and cooperative but you never knew what was going to set them off. The therapists there mainly worked on how manipulative they were and how to take accountability for their actions- it was a big problem trying to have rational conversations with them when they were worked up because they would shift blame and always turn things around. One was my roommate and she tended to see people as either wonderful or evil and often shifted to different extremes on her views based on a single incident. People were either her best friends or totally against her. I often saw her turn on people for the slightest things and it always felt like you were constantly trying to rebuild trust with her, draining!
I've never met a 'diagnosed' narcissist but I think narcissists are the last people that would even go to therapy. I believe I've run into a few though!
I agree it's important not to label but I do think it's important to educate yourself on ways not to be manipulated or blackmailed by people- it will help your communication skills all around and will also help you build better boundaries.
The books I suggested do exactly this and give you coping strategies whether you are dealing with just a difficult personality or actually someone with a disorder.

Because I believe she has a problem, and so do many other people that know her. She herself has admitted a few times of having problems but will not seek professional help. Don't be upset, I love my girlfriend and I'd like to know how to deal with it better.
You cannot diagnose her. If you try, you will probably be wrong. Please stop.

There is something wrong with each of us -- that includes both you and me. It might be panic disorder, schizophrenia, depression, OCD, autism, paranoia, and on and on. We each have a unique personality.

What do you mean by "deal with it"? What's to deal with? And don't forget -- she has to "deal with" you.

Pathisfer, what you described sounds much like her. I will look into those books you suggested, thank you.

I got this off another thread you started and feel a diagnosis bubbling up --

1. We are in our latter thirtys
2. We have a child together
3. We live separate
4. We email or call each other occasionally
5. We see each other almost every two weeks
6. She is very insecure
7. She feels she's not in my 'league'
8. She accuses me constantly of messing around on her
9. I tell her all the time that I love her
10. I tell her she's my soulmate
11. I tell her she's my angel
12. I tell her she's the one, etc. etc.
13. Every time we get together she goes into one of her drilling sessions about why other women are emailing me, why I have friends that are females, and so on.
14. I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide.
15. I have many friends, male and female, we like the same tthings, snowboarding and what not, but these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her.
16. Two weekends ago I was at a get together at a friends house and my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there.
17. I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking.
18. Actually I ended up leaving earlier because two other friends, being two females Im not allowed around, were coming.
19. Last weekend while I was with my girlfriend, and she was drilling me, I told her that I left my buddies get together because of the two girls that were coming. So she starts in with, "why would they invite those two knowing full well that you are not allowed around them?"
20. I simply told her that I can't tell my friends wife who she can or can't invite to her own house.
21. She told me, "well now your not allowed over his house either!"
22. I do get so tired of her accusing me of things and being so insecure.
23. I just had enough and I let her know it.
24. I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore.
25. She's mad at me, she won't forgive me, she says she can never trust me, and she wants to break up again.
26. I love her, I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

A. Do I just give up all my friends? Im not sure if that would even satisfy her.
B. I want to make it work.
C. I also want her to feel secure.

Wondegirl is telling you Saberwolf that we all have tendencies, and unless you know and have gone through the schooling for the Psychology to unravel this mystery, you potentially risk making the whole situation much much worse.

Trying to figure out what some one has is not a matter of simply reading a book and saying oh, this seems like it. It is much deeper and harder then that. First there is your own perception/interpretation. Then there is the meshing of symptoms, and hidden symptoms. Also, she may be keeping inoformation from you and so on.

Even if every one agrees with you, they know too little about the nature of ones brain to be agreeing/disagreeing with you. The second some one says she maybe, for example "borderline", every one's thoughts are switched to it, and have little knowledge about it. Further more, your own personal perception could be obscured by what you think should or should not be. You were raised in a different way than her, so your ideals are not the same, then she is her own person with differnet goals than you.
Are you taking all this into account??
That's not all though, your perception could very well be obscured by your own mental issues, may be your are the one with a personality disorder. Yes even your friends maybe obscured.

Mental health is not a straight forward issue. Any number of disorders can share similar symptoms, and mesh together. If you try to treat (in your case treat meant is cope with her on a personal level.) you very well could "push a button", thus "triggering" a response you won't like, nor understand. It can be harmful as well to her, as it may make her symptoms much worse or even multiply. No I kid you not. Then there is the trying to figure out what is the sronger of them, and how it's affecting the other ones. Say she is a borderline personality and you help her out when she feels lonely, but then you have to go to work and she won't let you go. Then you finally get short with her and tear a strip off her, yeah sure you feel guilty and bad, but really the damage is done. Now she devlopes anxiety around you and mistrusts you. The issues compile.

For what ever reasons she may have she may keep things to her self. Like child hood abuse, or fears that you may call silly/dumb with out even realizing she has them and now she feels worse and apprehensive around you. She may not even know the reasons or notice that she does things that are not approptiate, but you do and you again, tell her that's not right. If you don't know what disorder she has, how can you talk to her? It's dangerous.

There are more factors and these go much deeper but I'm unable to think of any off hand.

WONDERGIRL, I hope I did not go out of line, nor off bases. After all it's what you said that I was trying to get across. Please do let me know and I'll change it if you wish.

Peace and kindness be with you.

P.S. Saberwolf, try to persuade her to talk to a professional, be tactful and causious. Good luck.

Hi Sabrewolf, I posted the original reply that suggested looking at that website.

A family member of mine has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and for 11 years they have made our life a living hell. In order to try and understand the condition and deal with it I have done heaps and heaps of research. (At one stage it actually felt a bit obsessive - but I'm better now LOL.)

Personality disorders are extremely difficult to deal with - you'll find much information on the internet suggesting ways of dealing with them. Most of the literature suggests that there is no 'cure' or successful treatment and this is partly because sufferers rarely recognize that they have a problem. I don't thing it's wrong for you to try and figure out what's wrong with your partner - particularly if other people around you are saying the same thing - because I suspect she is unlikely to seek help herself, unless you make it a condition of you staying in the relationship.

Essentially , the advice for people in relationships boils down to three options:

1. Do exactly what they want and 'feed' the disorder on a daily basis.
2. Set really strong boundaries in the relationship about what you will and won't put up with.
3. Leave.

Of course all of these options are fraught with problems, particularly if you have children and if you, presumably, still love your partner:

Feeding the disorder on a daily basis and pandering to their ever changing demands and whims will most likely turn you into a zombie, a shadow of your former self. In any case, nothing you do will ever be good enough and you'll be sucked dry and spat out. You may as well put your testicles in a jar and forget about them. What sort of example is this to your child? You won't have a life.

Setting strong boundaries can work, but it will be a constant power struggle and she'll engineer more ways than you can possible imagine to challenge you and subvert the boundaries. You'll feel attacked, manipulated and harassed on a daily basis - is this what you want your child to observe? You'll have a hard life, with if you're lucky, some small gains.

Leaving is incredibly hard, particularly if you have children and you know they'll be in her care. You'll be the worst person in the world and you can guarantee that she'll make seeing your child difficult. You may have the opportunity to start a new life and to care for your child in an environment free from her influence.

See what I mean? There is no win/win situation here. I go back to my final suggestion in the original post - that is, seek professional assistance for yourself about how to deal with her behaviour.

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her, Im only asking about others experience with it, but thank you for your input. Im sorry I even asked about it.

Wondegirl is telling you Saberwolf that we all have tendancies
I agree that Saberwolf should call off his dogs and stop trying to diagnosis her. In his earlier post on another thread, he said, "I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide....these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her....my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there....I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking....I do get so tired of her accusing me of things....I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore."

This does not sound like a healthy relationship, and I put as much fault at his door for being a dependent personality as I do at hers for being a controller. There. I've done it. I made a diagnosis.

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her
Yes, you are. You want to pin a diagnosis on her, so you will know "how to handle her."

The main thing you need to do is establish firm boundaries. You are giving up things that you love in order to "make her happy." That's not how it works in a relationship. Have you ever made her "happy"? If so, what did you give up to make that happen? Yes, I agree that you should have a few sessions with a therapist in order to figure out how to put up boundaries and stick to them. This is good to know with anyone, by the way.

I agree that Saberwolf should call off his dogs and stop trying to diagnosis her. In his earlier post on another thread, he said, "I gave her my email password so she could see for herself that I have nothing to hide....these are friends I've had for a long time BUT Im not allowed to be around half of them or talk to them anymore because of her....my girlfriend told me to call her when I was there....I did, and she demanded I not stay the night even though I was drinking....I do get so tired of her accusing me of things....I said some mean things, of which I apologized for, but she kept on going on about it that night that I just couldn't take it anymore."

This does not sound like a healthy relationship, and I put as much fault at his door for being a dependent personality as I do at hers for being a controller. There. I've done it. I made a diagnosis.

PRetty much the best thing he can do is leave then... :( But its' true, "you don't know what you got till it's gone."- Counting crows This is what either makes us stronger, or...

If you stay, you stay the way you are, unless you get Professional Help. Face the facts and then realize the truth hiden behind them.


Peace and kindness

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.
Y0U have a few sessions with a therapist. You need the support and you need to be able to set out boundaries. Can you do that alone? Will you allow her to search through your cell calls made and received? Will you give up friends and parties and get-togethers and vacations and foods if she asks you to? It won't be a rollercoaster ride if you are in charge of the brakes.

Thank you Gemini54, and thanks again for that website. You are absolutely right, none of those three choices are easy to make. I know I will never get her to see a therapist, it's a choice she will have to make on her own. I'd like to try to set the boundaries with her, but trying to figure out the best way of dealing with the irrational behaviour as a result. It's a real rollercoaster ride at times.

My pleasure Sabrewolf, at least if you speak to someone your choices will, hopefully, become clearer. I would not start setting any boundaries until such time that you've spoken with an accredited therapist and you have their support and advice to rely on. Someone that has experience with personality disorders, is my humble suggestion.

Nestorian, Im not trying to treat her, Im only asking about others experience with it, but thank you for your input. Im sorry I even asked about it.

You missed what I was saying. But no worries.

Thanks Gemini, I will take your advice. By the way, I would have rated your answer, but it won't let me for some reason, it says I have to spread some more reputation around. Thanks again for your support.

I can't believe what a hard time some people are giving to the OP. He's come to this website to ask if anyone has had any similar experiences, and all he gets is pedantic responses designed to reprimand him for wondering how he can improve his situation.

No matter what anyone says, he does have to "handle" his girlfriend in a specific way if she does have any neuroses. I think that this is admirable because he is willing to change his behaviour in order to accommodate his partner because he obviously wants to be with her. The problem is that he just doesn't know how. This isn't an intellectual undertaking that a psychiatrist/psychologist has to deal with at work and then think about a little after a session, but a real life situation where two people are trying to have a relationship that is much deeper than a professional one and extends for longer than an hour on a couch. So it's irrelevant that he wants to make a "diagnosis". All he wants is some insight into her mental processes. ANY understanding of her and her personality will help him in the long run. Would it be any different if he wanted to know how to "handle" a cancer patient? Aren't a lot of psychological problems neurological or biological in nature, with the outward symptoms being expressed by way of personality?

My experience with this comes from my previous ex, who had an anxiety disorder and was constantly suffering from bouts of fainting and panic attacks and whom I persuaded to see a therapist (after a long time trying). In my situation I had to be perfect, or in other words I had to constantly act in ways that would re-assure her that I wasn't up to anything like cheating or wasn't going to do things similar to what other people had done to her or whatever, much like you do. I also tried to make a diagnosis of her as well and it turns out that everything I thought was correct. Even still, it was exhausting for me to live like this but I never complained because I loved her and my "diagnosis" was made only in the attempt to understand her so that I could try to be what she needed because if she has any neuroses, these afflictions will make her life that much harder to live and I didn't want to exacerbate them. If you want to deal with the restrictions imposed on you by her then that is your issue to deal with.

The only advice I can give is that you should research what you think she has and use this information as it will help you to understand her mental state all the better and in turn understand how to "handle" her. You know this woman and nobody on this site can tell you any different. I know where you're coming from. Keep it up.

I can't believe what a hard time some people are giving to the OP. He's come to this website to ask if anyone has had any similar experiences, and all he gets is pedantic responses designed to reprimand him for wondering how he can improve his situation.
He posted elsewhere in great detail. I was going by that, what he hasn't said here. And I still don't believe it's a good idea to diagnose a SO. It's usually the pot calling the kettle black.

He posted elsewhere in great detail. I was going by that, what he hasn't said here. And I still don't believe it's a good idea to diagnose a SO. It's usually the pot calling the kettle black.

Sure, I can give you that. I haven't read any post but this. Even still, if she does have some sort of psychological issue, I don't recall him ever saying that he told her that he was going to diagnose her. I think he's just trying to sum up the extent of his experiences with her in his own head. If that's a diagnosis, then so be it. Don't we all do the same thing when we are trying to understand why our partners are the way they are sometimes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that OP never in fact used the word "diagnosis", but was instead told that what he was doing was tantamount to diagnosing his SO. That's where this whole post kind of spiralled in another direction.

I agree, the post got off track but I think he got some useful info out of it. His original question was just asking for other people's experiences with personality disorders.

Sure, I can give you that. I haven't read any post but this. Even still, if she does have some sort of psychological issue, I don't recall him ever saying that he told her that he was going to diagnose her. I think he's just trying to sum up the extent of his experiences with her in his own head. If that's a diagnosis, then so be it. Don't we all do the same thing when we are trying to understand why our partners are the way they are sometimes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that OP never in fact used the word "diagnosis", but was instead told that what he was doing was tantamount to diagnosing his SO. That's where this whole post kinda spiralled in another direction.

What was said was a warning, nothing more nothing less. It's up to the OP to decide what to do with the info given to him.
It's not important any more either way. He has info to go by and has no doubt, gone to "figure her out", so as to know how to behave with her and react with her.

I will add one last warning: Changing for some one else is often illadvised, for the person may not recipricate the favor.

"wisdom is everywhere, we need only listen."- Nestorian.

I'm sure they will be fine.

Peace and kindness be with you.

Nestorian, Im not looking to change for anyone, just want to know how to deal with and understand these behaviours from the woman I love more than anything. Sorry she isn't perfect, but I doubt she is evil. There is something wrong, and until she is properly diagnosed and treated, I need all the information I can get.

What was said was a warning, nothing more nothing less. It's up to the OP to decide what to do with the info given to him.
It's not important any more either way. He has info to go by and has no doubt, gone to "figure her out", so as to know how to behave with her and react with her.

I will add one last warning: Changing for some one else is often illadvised, for the person may not recipricate the favor.

"wisdom is everywhere, we need only listen."- Nestorian.

I'm sure they will be fine.

Peace and kindness be with you.

The info that he was given, in some cases, didn't even apply to his question. It was just people spouting off about the "dangers of making a diagnosis". He's just looking for people to share experiences that may be similar to his. This is all he wants, so this is all that has any value to him.

I don't think he's wanting to change who he is fundamentally for his SO. I think he's just trying to gain some knowledge so he can exercise some control over his situation; modify his behaviour for his and her good. Only those who have actually been involved with people who are afflicted by PD's really know what he's going through. That may be why we spared him the lectures.

It's also important to note that when you are involved in a relationship with a person who may have a personality disorder, and they then begin seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist, part of their treatment may include being medicated. Since these pharmacological agents are designed to affect their behaviour in some way, they can change into a completely different person when under the influence of these agents. They may begin to think differently, about themselves, life and possibly even you. So you should take note that she may feel differently about being in a relationship with you while she is on medication, if it ever comes to that. I read an interesting article about women, and how their preferences for men change when they are on or off birth control drugs (though they themselves were not aware that they had changed) and this really illuminated me in regards to my ex's behaviour when she was medicated. Look it up, I'm sure you can extend the results to any variety of drugs, whether they be psychoactive or not.

Thanks itried, I do believe my girlfriend is very much in love with me, she never hesitates to tell me so, or even show she does in many ways. The thought of her re-thinking our relationship while engaged in therapy and/or medication has crossed my mind, but, in any case, what is best for her is my primary concern. As I said, I do love her with all my heart whether she decides she does likewise or not if she gets treatment. Her well-being and happiness are much more important to me than holding on to a relationship with her knowing she needs help and not doing anything about it. I really do think though that our relationship will only be stronger for it. But thank you, that is a very good point to consider.

He handed over his email password to her, avoided being with certain friends she doesn't like, called her when he was told to, was told he can no longer go to someone's house, said he was tired of her "drilling" him. What don't I understand? The best thing he can do is learn how to set boundaries and stick to them. That's my experience with relatives, friends, and clients who have been diagnosed with a PD.

I never said that you don't understand anything.

Once again, he's not asking about what he can do in order to make his SO respect his boundaries or whatever. He's asking us to share similar experiences!
So, the best thing, the only thing that WE, the members of this site can do is: Share similar experiences!

How he should decide to handle the relationship hasn't even been asked of us. If I didn't have anything to share, I wouldn't have posted on this thread. It's not my place to make inferences or to speculate on what people need to do. I can only give what is asked of me, nothing more. And how he should conduct himself in order to make his relationship successful in our eyes has not been asked of us.

The info that he was given, in some cases, didn't even apply to his question. It was just people spouting off about the "dangers of making a diagnosis". He's just looking for people to share experiences that may be similar to his. This is all he wants, so this is all that has any value to him.

I don't think he's wanting to change who he is fundamentally for his SO. I think he's just trying to gain some knowledge so he can exercise some control over his situation; modify his behaviour for his and her good. Only those who have actually been involved with people who are afflicted by PD's really know what he's going through. That may be why we spared him the lectures.

Is that so? (This I am asking sincerely.)

May peace and kindness be with you.

Is that so? (This I am asking sincerly.)

May peace and kindness be with you.

Yes, that is so.

Thanks itried, I do believe my girlfriend is very much in love with me, she never hesitates to tell me so, or even show she does in many ways. The thought of her re-thinking our relationship while engaged in therapy and/or medication has crossed my mind, but, in any case, what is best for her is my primary concern. As I said, I do love her with all my heart whether she decides she does likewise or not if she gets treatment. Her well-being and happiness are much more important to me than holding on to a relationship with her knowing she needs help and not doing anything about it. I really do think though that our relationship will only be stronger for it. But thank you, that is a very good point to consider.

I'm not in a position to say if she does or doesn't have issues which can be sorted out by therapy or whatever. One thing I did learn from my last ex was this: You can't make someone else happy. They are responsible for that themselves. Still, you can facilitate it, which it seems like you are doing.

How she goes about it after therapy is none of your concern. She may want to start all over again once she's "cured". Whether that re-start will include you is anyone's guess. The important thing to consider is that you are willing to sacrifice her (i.e. potentially not being with her after therapy) for her best interests. That may sound kind of strange. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

My ex went the therapy route. She would tell me that a lot of the stuff I came up with in my "diagnosis" of her was dead-on correct and that she was glad that she was going through with it. Therapy is a gradual process and usually it's the patient who comes to have these epiphanies on their own (prodded along by a good therapist, though) However, once she was done with the loading phase of her medication, and it was circulating in her system, I noticed profound changes in her. I had a feeling I would lose her but I was happy that she was getting help with her issues, and believe me, they were ISSUES! In the end, she wanted a clean slate, so she left. I don't regret any of it because I know she knows that I was there for her. I "handled" her at her worst so that some other guy could "be" with her at her best. She used to contemplate suicide and I tried to find as much info as I could to make my "diagnosis" so that I could be there for her. That's life. But in the end, now that I've been through this experience in life, I could never go through with it again.

Hey itried, Im sorry to hear that, and that exactly has crossed my mind, that I would help get her through it and she would end up with someone else afterwards. But, she would still be the mother of my youngest, and at least would be a benefit to him. If we do end up apart, I agree, I wouldn't want to go through it again with anyone else, that's for sure!
But when you were with her, were there any ritualistic things that you found yourself doing to either prevent her behaviour or things you wouldn't normally do? I don't mean as far as giving her your email password or anything, that was fine with me, that was just sharing something as I would in any relationship. Did she accuse you of cheating or did she act very insecure in your relationship without good reason?

Nestorian, Im not looking to change for anyone, just want to know how to deal with and understand these behaviours from the woman I love more than anything. Sorry she isn't perfect, but I doubt she is evil. There is something wrong, and until she is properly diagnosed and treated, I need all the information I can get.

I never said she was evil, nor did I say anything about perfect, nor do you have to answer to me?? :confused: (I think you need to not take the answers so personal.)

To deal with something like this requires you to change, other wise why'd you ask your question on this site? Do you know it's a Personality disorder? We don't even know what her behaviours are? What if it's something else? Mental health has a wide spectrum, and very interconnected symptoms. It is hard to figure out what one has even for professionals, which is what it seems that so many do not like them, as the professionals make mistakes too. It seems that every one expects that they just fix a person, that would be nice but that's not how it works, it's a trial and error process.

I am not saying what you are doing is "wrong", and if I did, disregard it and listen to me now. This is "unwise", it is too risky, and open to dangerous consequences. Like I said, you missed my point. Please do not be so quick to assume that I think you are anything but what you are, a man wanting to help his wife, and is willing to give any thing to do so; which is exactly why I'm warning you against it. For both your sake.

If not gaining information to diagnose her then why? "Diagnosis: The act or process of finding out what disease a person or animal has by examination and careful study of the symptoms... 2a careful study of the facts about something to find out it's essential features, faults, etc..."- Gage Canadian Dictionary So you are just going to look at this stuff and what? Because none of it is of use to you unless you believe she has one or another disorder. Does that make sense, I tend to loose people in my logic. Haha, :rolleyes:Heck I get lost in it. Any way, now you know that the fact that you are looking for answers to use to help cope with her, you need to decide at some point she heas this or that. I realise you may not really know it for sure, and eventually will some how get her into a professional, but again I will remind you the list I wrote above is not just a bunch of gibberish. It has wisdom within, but you have to be willing to listen.

Also, in cognitive Psychlogy, there are many types of theropy. One I found interesting was, learning to beaware of "self talk". This book teaches agreat deal about why our thoughts are negative. I won't tell you what you seem to be showing signs of, but even if your girl doesn't want to go to the conseler, that's not to say you can't?

May peace and kindness be with you.

P.S. In my experience, every one has some kind of psychological difficency.

I was with my ex for 6 years and we broke up in September of 08. Those 6 years were very trying for me, but only in retrospect, because while I was going through them I was there willingly, knowing full well what was on the horizon. But just like you, I didn't mind because I loved her.

She was very insecure and I found myself always having to defend myself for the actions of people like my friends, my brother, etc. What I mean is that she would attribute the thoughts and actions of other people to me. So, if someone made a comment that upset her, I would take the blame for it. Just a sympton that stemmed from her trust issues and lack of confidence her past had stripped her of. She would always wonder if I was cheating on her and stuff like that, but I never did or would and it drove me crazy because I could never prove myself to her no matter how hard I tried to. The one thing that I took from this was that I had to be PERFECT! Not necessarily the type of perfect that most women would agree is perfect (or close to). But a special type of perfect that was fitting of her needs (I'm sure you know what I mean by that). This is why I understand your need to make a "diagnosis". Like someone mentioned earlier, it was draining! But like my name implies, I tried. I tried my a-- off!

P.S. In my experience, every one has some kind of psychological difficency.

While it may be true that everyone has some sort of psychological deficiency; it should be noted that they can and are at many times measured on a spectrum/continuum, so that there are mild cases which don't necessarily affect cognitive function and extreme cases which do and all those somewhere in between. It is these people who have deficiencies that affect their ability to function "normally" that most case studies in psychology, and hence their theories, etc are based on. So really, how informed can psychologists be. Most of their insights into peoples personalities and why they do what they do stem from studies of "neurotic" people. Not trying to discount psychology/psychologists, after all I did minor in it in university. I'm just saying. Something to think about.

Nestorian, I really think you are missing my concept of starting this thread.
Do you have any personal experience in dealing with someone who has a personality disorder while in a relationship with that person?

Now I can completely understand your name, in another year I might have to change mine to "itried 2"! Yeah, I also understand having to be "special perfect". I think there is a name Sigmuend Freud gave to that. But anyway, was there something in her past that triggered her insecurity with you?

While it may be true that everyone has some sort of psychological deficiency; it should be noted that they can and are at many times measured on a spectrum/continuum, so that there are mild cases which don't necessarily affect cognitive function and extreme cases which do and all those somewhere in between. It is these people who have deficiencies that affect their ability to function "normally" that most case studies in psychology, and hence their theories, etc are based on.

Yes there is a specturm. Mind you I serisouly question the cognitive capabilities of every being. I still ponder on the idea that every one is cognitively in capable of telling the difference between right or wrong. But that is off topic and unimportant. Sorry about that.

May peace and kindness be with you

Now I can completely understand your name, in another year I might have to change mine to "itried 2"! Yeah, I also understand having to be "special perfect". I think there is a name Sigmuend Freud gave to that. But anyway, was there something in her past that triggered her insecurity with you?

I'm not sure what Freud had termed that specific concept, but I'd like to know.

To put it lightly, she was "abused" by her immediate family as well as friends of the family. This resulted in a pattern of behaviour that was cyclical throughout her life. With me, she admitted that it was different because she was starting to understand that I was the only person who actually did care for her and that I was patient with her and all her symptoms. This realization, I should mention, dawned on her only through her involvement with therapy and she wouldn't have been able to see this unless she participated. I took this as a positive sign, and you can see why I thought my outcome would not be what it was. In the end, you naturally give these people all the power in the relationship, and this is what I resent the most after it's all said and done.

Hopefully, you'll be able to keep sabrewolfe. It sounds cooler!

So really, how informed can psychologists be. Most of their insights into peoples personalities and why they do what they do stem from studies of "neurotic" people. Not trying to discount psychology/psychologists, after all I did minor in it in university. I'm just saying. Something to think about.
The psychologists and psychiatrists who were my instructors in grad school had their own practices on the side, and saw clients/patients of all types, with all degrees of mental illness. They didn't just sit in their offices and read professional journals containing studies of neurotics. How informed can they be? Quite informed! They were down in the trenches nearly every day and could tell war stories until the cows came home.

To what end? Say you discover she has a vast array of personality disorders. Does that invalidate all of her feelings? Will you modify anything she needs you to modify? You asked for experience so here's mine. I'm pretty sure my ex has some psych issues. I'm positive I do. We both did our best to compromise. I'll admit toward the end I felt like I was walking on egg shells a bit more than she was but we both ended up walking on egg shells. Our relationship was emotionally expensive to the both of us. I wasn't done but close. She was done. Truth is, we were both seeking to improve each other. That was our first mistake. In the end we both felt manipulated and controlled. By diagnosing your SO and catering to what you deem an illness you are not being true to yourself or her. As positive a spin as you'd like to place on it, you are attempting to manipulate her. I'm in total agreement with Wondergirl. I'd also like to say that you are too close, too far in this to properly help her. You can recommend treatment but that's it. You can't save people. This is from experience and that's what you wanted. Having firm boundaries simply prevents you from losing yourself. Most of us give a little up for relationships and when they end we resent doing it for said person. Good luck. I don't mean to sound judgmental but it's late and you seem to be avoiding good advice from Wondergirl.

Yes there is a specturm. Mind you I serisouly question the cognitive capabilities of every being. I still ponder on the idea that every one is cognitively in capable of telling the difference between right or wrong. But that is off topic and unimportant. Sorry bout that.

May peace and kindness be with you

I think most people know the difference between right and wrong. They just choose to ignore it for personal gain. Though, there are some people who can't even understand the concept of right and wrong. I think this is attributed to loss of brain function through injury or through abnormal neurological/brain development. But yeah, this is what is fascinating about psychology.

Yeah, we are getting off topic here.

The psychologists and psychiatrists who were my instructors in grad school had their own practices on the side, and saw clients/patients of all types, with all degrees of mental illness. They didn't just sit in their offices and read professional journals containing studies of neurotics. How informed can they be? Quite informed! They were down in the trenches nearly every day and could tell war stories until the cows came home.

I understand that. But is it not even slightly true that most theories of personality besides, Cattell/Allport, maybe Eysenck and Big 5 theories (I'm trying to remember names here, don't quote me. You'd know better than I do) are based on clinical studies of neurotic patients? And don't these clinical studies lay the groundwork for the theories that psychologists/psychiatrists employ when they try to make diagnoses of various patients? Not trying to undermine it (psychology). But it is based on inner mental processes that can't necessarily be observed or verified. Isn't this where Skinner et al jumped into the fray?

Also, all your advisors from grad school should be able to attest that it's very unusual for "normal" people to submit themselves to therapy, etc. So wouldn't all their war stories be related to "neurotics" instead of "normals"? Isn't this a fundamental assumption that is acknowledged throughout the study of personality psychology and its various sub-disciplines?

Nestorian, I really think you are missing my concept of starting this thread.
Do you have any personal experience in dealing with someone who has a personality disorder while in a relationship with that person?

That is very possible.

Not that I know of.

To what end? Say you discover she has a vast array of personality disorders. Does that invalidate all of her feelings? Will you modify anything she needs you to modify? You asked for experience so here's mine. I'm pretty sure my ex has some psych issues. I'm positive I do. We both did our best to compromise. I'll admit toward the end I felt like I was walking on egg shells a bit more than she was but we both ended up walking on egg shells. Our relationship was emotionally expensive to the both of us. I wasn't done but close. She was done. Truth is, we were both seeking to improve each other. That was our first mistake. In the end we both felt manipulated and controlled. By diagnosing your SO and catering to what you deem an illness you are not being true to yourself or her. As positive a spin as you'd like to place on it, you are attempting to manipulate her. I'm in total agreement with Wondergirl. I'd also like to say that you are too close, too far in this to properly help her. You can recommend treatment but that's it. You can't save people. This is from experience and that's what you wanted. Having firm boundaries simply prevents you from losing yourself. Most of us give a little up for relationships and when they end we resent doing it for said person. Good luck. I don't mean to sound judgmental but it's late and you seem to be avoiding good advice from Wondergirl.

None of my girlfriends feelings are invalid, she has a hard time expressing them in a healthy, productive way. Im not trying to fix her either, just to learn how to deal with her behaviour. Wondergirl had nothing to offer this thread. Im not catering to her illness, Im loving my girlfriend. I guess if she became deaf, and I had to learn sign language to communicate with her better, that would be catering to her hearing disorder and not being true to myself, right? I might even resent her for having to take the time to learn it if we split up.

I think most people know the difference between right and wrong. They just choose to ignore it for personal gain. Though, there are some people who can't even understand the concept of right and wrong. I think this is attributed to loss of brain function through injury or through abnormal neurological/brain development. But yeah, this is what is fascinating about psychology.

I disagree. How many people would you consider as most? Because form what I can tell, Most people don't know the difference.

THe only real difference between right and wrong is one's own perspective. Yes I did just make that up, but in all honesty it seems pretty logical to me.

I disagree. How many people would you consider as most? Because form what I can tell, Most people don't know the difference.

THe only real difference between right and wrong is one's own perspective. Yes i did just make that up, but in all honesty it seems pretty logical to me.

Please continue that on another thread. Thank you

I'm not sure what Freud had termed that specific concept, but I'd like to know.

To put it lightly, she was "abused" by her immediate family as well as friends of the family. This resulted in a pattern of behaviour that was cyclical throughout her life. With me, she admitted that it was different because she was starting to understand that I was the only person who actually did care for her and that I was patient with her and all her symptoms. This realization, I should mention, dawned on her only through her involvement with therapy and she wouldn't have been able to see this unless she participated. I took this as a positive sign, and you can see why I thought my outcome would not be what it was. In the end, you naturally give these people all the power in the relationship, and this is what I resent the most after it's all said and done.

Hopefully, you'll be able to keep sabrewolfe. It sounds cooler!

I think the term is "amora" from Freud, but don't quote me on that.
My girlfriend came from a very loving, supportive family with no abuse or anything. She had a great childhood. I don't know of anything in her past that would have influenced her behaviour.

I think that everyone interprets events in their lives differently than others, so even if she comes from a loving family, she could have issues that could explain why she is the way she is. People have different thresholds for pain, for example. So something that would not alarm some people or cause someone to have psychological problems would for someone else have the opposite effect. It's hard to say really. The human mind and how it relates to and processes stress is hard to understand. But one thing is certain, and that is that our past and current experiences do have an affect on our future and current personalities.

Do you have any other insights or contextual info about you, your woman or your relationship that could help?

I understand that. But is it not even slightly true that most theories of personality besides, Cattell/Allport, maybe Eysenck and Big 5 theories (I'm trying to remember names here, dont quote me. You'd know better than I do) are based on clinical studies of neurotic patients? And don't these clinical studies lay the groundwork for the theories that psychologists/psychiatrists employ when they try to make diagnoses of various patients? Not trying to undermine it (psychology). But it is based on inner mental processes that can't necessarily be observed or verified. Isn't this where Skinner et al jumped into the fray?

Actually, have you ever heard of electrods? These elsctrods go into the brain and when fired up, depending upon where the electrod is placed they can stimulate a vast majority of experences. From what I've read on "neurology", they can even take an entire hemasphear out, and the patient will seem unaffected. For how many years who knows.

Skinner was good but not technilogically advanced enough to test the brain.

YouTube - Brain Plasticity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSu9HGnlMV0)

They had to of known that the brain was behaving erratically in one side be for they cut the other out. They needed to know he mental processes that were making her behave like that. They are getting much more specific now though. They can even tell what a person is thinking by placing a specail elsctrod like instrament in the exposed brain and then, when you think or as you think, it records what is going on. I can't recall where that all came from but I would much apprecieate it if some one finds it to tell me where.

Peace and kindness

I think that everyone interprets events in their lives differently than others. People have different thresholds for pain, for example. So something that would not alarm some people or cause someone to have psychological problems would for someone else have the opposite effect. It's hard to say really. The human mind and how it relates to and processes stress is hard to understand. But one thing is certain, and that is that our past and current experiences do have an affect on our future and current personalities.

Do you have any other insights or contextual info about you, your woman or your relationship that could help?

You mean me?


Of course, but it's all far too much to just blab on about, and it's up to the OP to recognize the importance of any of it. I won't post it unless he is really going to read it as it may take up a lot of room on this thread, and I'd hate to make the thread abou me.


Believe me, I've bin studying people since I was 5, my family wsa always fighting, and I wasa always under a lot of stress, and asking, why all the time. But not of other people. Of myself. Critical thinking is not easy, but if you're like me, it seems almost necessarry, and at the same time way more complex. For the simple fact that I don't just look at things from my perspective, but as many as I can understand. Very confusing, and most don't have the patients for it.

So OP do you want to know what I have that may or may not be of use to you?

No worries, I don't blame you if you don't.

Peace and kindness bewith you.

Well, as far as me personally, I came from a very abusive upbringing, and not to say I have no flaws, I have a pretty good handle on things. Im very patient, assertive, understanding, trusting, etc. I took to my beliefs in God to learn the things I wasn't taught growing up. I was married, have three children from that relationship, my children are happy and healthy.
My girlfriend in my opinion has been enabled by her parents all her life. When ever she got herself into problems, they bailed her out. Where as I was usually always on my own to have to face things myself.
She has been in relationships before where she acted very similar to them the way she does me.

To what end? Say you discover she has a vast array of personality disorders. Does that invalidate all of her feelings? Will you modify anything she needs you to modify? You asked for experience so here's mine. I'm pretty sure my ex has some psych issues. I'm positive I do. We both did our best to compromise. I'll admit toward the end I felt like I was walking on egg shells a bit more than she was but we both ended up walking on egg shells. Our relationship was emotionally expensive to the both of us. I wasn't done but close. She was done. Truth is, we were both seeking to improve each other. That was our first mistake. In the end we both felt manipulated and controlled. By diagnosing your SO and catering to what you deem an illness you are not being true to yourself or her. As positive a spin as you'd like to place on it, you are attempting to manipulate her. I'm in total agreement with Wondergirl. I'd also like to say that you are too close, too far in this to properly help her. You can recommend treatment but that's it. You can't save people. This is from experience and that's what you wanted. Having firm boundaries simply prevents you from losing yourself. Most of us give a little up for relationships and when they end we resent doing it for said person. Good luck. I don't mean to sound judgmental but it's late and you seem to be avoiding good advice from Wondergirl.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that Sabrewolf is trying to manipulate his girlfriend. My understanding is that he's exploring what other people's experiences are with PD's so he can better understand what's going on.

He's doing the research. Nothing wrong with that. That's what these sites are for.

He's also trying to form a picture of what her behavior might mean - is that a diagnosis?
I don't know. But even if it is, so what? Surely he has to put some sort of name to it if he's going to start to deal with his response to it.

I don't see anywhere that he wants to 'save' her or improve her. He just wants to know how to live with her and not feel abused and bullied. Surely we would all want that improvement in our relationships?

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, she doesn't have any psychological issues and that she's just a spoiled brat who is used to having everthing her way? Not trying to make light of your problem, because I take it very seriously, but maybe she's driving you crazy! I've dated a spoiled and bratty girl, and there were times where I thought that I should see a shrink!

Look, I know that you'll never know what's going on in that head of hers and more than likely never will. But looking at things from a different angle may help also. What do you think?

Oh sure now you come to the dark side. Haha. Kist playing guys. It's way to serious in here.

You know what they say, the best cure for a lame situation is laughter.

YouTube - dane cook: B & E (censored) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LcsZ5DDS7U) There that'll make you laugh.

True love, can be many things. Every one has their opinion, experiences, interpretation, and perceptions about it.

True, as defined at: true definition | Dictionary.com
1. being in accordance with the actual state or conditions; conforming to reality or fact; not false: a true story.
2. real; genuine; authentic: true gold; true feelings.
3. sincere; not deceitful: a true interest in someone's welfare.
4. firm in allegiance; loyal; faithful; steadfast: a true friend.

Love as defined at: love definition | Dictionary.com
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.

Lets say love is a firm genuine, deep affection and loyalty that is built upon a profoundly passionate faithful belief in the binding of two people's lives. Forever they will be attached in one form or another. Personally I would argue that there is also a point to which one may need to learn to let go of a love, simply because only if you truly love some one/ thing will you find the strength to let them go of your own free will. I think that is important, because it lets people know that we don't have to be together just because we "have to", but we stay together because we want to. Also some times, the one's we want to stay with, don't want to stay with us, and so we have to accept that so we can move on. There maybe "soul mates", but it's not clear as to whether we develop, and grow into such, or if it's predetermined for us. Maybe finding our soul mate has more to do with finding ourselves, and in doing so can finally attract our soul mates. Very mysterious is the world that we pretend to know.

Lust= Passion, sex drive and hormones. One night stands, or meaningless flings. (The people that do this seem to show very little self respect, and tend to "...act kinda proud with no respect for themselves." P.O.D.- Youth of the nation)

Love= Passion, sex drive, hormones, enjoy a person's company/ personality, and some respect. (Actually, I think this may be most relationships in our world. In love, but not so willing to see the difference between them self and their lover, and what their relationship really means. There are different types, levels and kinds of Love at this level. Like the women who loves her man so much even when he hits her, or when the man loves his women but she cheats on him. Then there is the couple that is relatively happy together, but don't really grow, or progress because they are too different, or a like, or just don't work well together. )

True Love= The one you will spend your life with, while there is time left to spend. You understand that you may not be together forever, but still live for the moment. You are comfortable with each other, and yourselves. Grow together, and progress in life, due to a healthy balance. When there is a split, it is on good terms, hard, painful still but good. (The "good" split is not to be confused with a careless, reckless, and respect-less split. It is not like the couple who splits and stay's friends and cheats on their new partners with the one they are splitting on good terms with. I might argue that true friends are in true love.)

Soul Mates= True Love + Forever being with your lover as your lover will forever be with you. The one you are dedicated to until death do you part. Perhaps the one you will follow into the after life, what ever it maybe. Know yourself, and you will know your soul mate.

As to whether I believe these... They are possibilities, just like anything, everything, nothing, and something else...

will everyone find love?
That is dependent, do we count the love of GOD as some believe, the Love one feels for themselves, The love of a family or friends?

Love is not all about passion and sex. It's more complicated, and it also depends where what your cultural back ground is. I some times think that is why people are so confused about love, because they feel the same feeling for some one they love as for some one they want to just have sex with. That heated passion, and so on. But love is more than that, it's about connection, and being able to be with the one you love with out invading who they are. So often people get messed up by their feelings saying, "Oh look at this new exciting prospect of adventure..." Then the morals and spiritual guidance kicks in, "This is not right, I may be attracted, but i don't know this person. It's very dangerous, STDs, rape, murder, and so on. I deserve to be treated better then a fluzy, sex toy." Then it's a perpetual war waged within the confines of your own mind. These days people seem more prone to act on basic instinct and feelings than reason, and honorable intentions. Don't get me wrong, that's just an over generalization. There are still people who do care about what happens to one another, and do seem to be happy even after just a one night stand, but not always. Haha I guess I've been hanging around too many rough necks eh? Haha, welders, mill laborers, and such.

All I've given you is just my opinion. No real evidence saying nor suggesting its true.

Peace and kindness be with you.


“If you love someone, does it mean you would be able to let them go and be happy with someone else? Even if its hard as hell for you?”- none12345

You may consider following this, Forgive yourself for past mistakes. Or it will be hard to know yourself. If you can not forgive yourself and thus let go of the past, you may only end up in situations that are too familiar and using your illusions II make things seem good when they are not. As Guns 'N' Roses play,
"Cause yesterday's got nothin' for me
Old pictures that I'll always see
Some things could be better
If we'd all just let them be..."

Forgive yourself, then you can begin to know yourself. No it is very unlikely that we will ever know our self's entirely, for it's an on going progression that lasts through out our entire being, or so it is seems that such advice is important to keep in mind. When we get to know ourselves, we get to understand the connection we have and share with others. Whether it's, a lover, friend, the vary air we breath, the food we eat, the substances we put in our bodies, and the balance between all. Like I said, how can we know our soul mate if we don't know ourselves. So, if we break up with one lover and wish to improve our ability to be in a healthy relationship, then perhaps the best way to do this is by first getting to be ourselves. That means know yourself, and you shall know Love. It can be seen as not true, but I believe that is, for the most part, if you use your illusions II make things seem other than they are. If you can not be honest with yourself, you can not be honest with others.

Love yourself, this is very hard for most, on account that we all have such high expectations for ourselves and one another. This one is very touchy and hard to deal with since it's a very powerful emotion. We tend to try and tighten our grip on it, but no matter how tight to grip it, it just runs through our hands like sand. We become addicted to Love, and in the book "The brain that changes it'self" it is compared to the drug Cocaine. While we have our love, or in my best interpretation that which seems to invoke the feeling of "Love"/"Euphoria", we are "happy". Then we start to associate things with that "Love". Should we loose that "love", we become depressed and miss that “love” dearly.
This is the complex part, we feel euphoric because the pleasure centers in the Septal region of the Limbic system is turned on. This makes us associate what we experience, good or Bad, with the feeling of pleasure. When we are "in Love", on a "manic High" (term for people who have a mental illness called Mania, or bipolar.), or if we are under the influence of cocaine; the threshold at which our pleasure centers will fire is lowered, making it easier for them to turn on. "Neurons that fire together wire together." (this term implies that while the threshold of our pleasure centers is lowered, we associate what ever we do/see/think/feel/smell and generally experience with Pleasure.) Now, the pleasure center has another name, "the appetitive pleasure system" ("Appetitive: 1. An instinctive physical desire, especially one for food or drink. 2. A strong wish or urge: an appetite for learning." - Appetitive - definition of Appetitive by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Appetitive)) The reason for the strong urge or instinctive physical desire is because the appetitive pleasure system is a dopamine-based system associated with the pleasure of anticipating something we desire.

So now, when we separate from our "love" for too long we suffer from with drawl and the things that we associated with our "love", rather than bringing us happy feelings, they taunt us and serve as a dark reminder of the love we lost. That can change over time, but when the separation is new, it's really hard to look past the pain, and illusions we create. Generally after losing a love, the pleasure center isn't functioning the same, so they crash and begin craving their "love", get anxious, doubt themselves, lose their energy, and feel rundown if not depressed. Like the junky getting a small fix, a letter, e-mail, text message, or telephone message from our "love" gives us that old shot of energy and joy.

Relationships that are regular and routine, well the dopamine in our systems likes novelty, so we have to keep things rather fresh and new, exciting or our brains get bored. They need stimulation, and I've come to wonder if people who have relationship troubles and drink or do drugs regularly, aren't linked to this idea of new and fresh. See, when we do drugs, drink alcohol, we kill brain cells and make it hard for the brain to learn new things. That is only in relative terms though, and a whole new story.

I may be repeating some stuff, sorry about that, but here is more to the psychological perspective on Neurological explanation of addiction/love. I'm having a hard time finding where to start for your Sexual behaviour, and how to use the porn addiction section in the book to explain it. I hope this helps.

"Ok, so we have a pleasure center located in the limbic system, a part of the brain heavily involved in processing emotion, and a Dr. Robert Heath did experiments on humans in this area. He took electrodes, the brain doesn't have feeling, and put them into the septal region of the limbic system and turned it on, the patient would then experience a powerful euphoria, so powerful that one patient pleaded with them not to stop. This same region fires up when pleasant subjects were discussed and during orgasm. These pleasure centers were found to be part of the brain's reward system, the mesolimbic dopamine system.
When the pleasure center is turned on everything we experience gives us pleasure. Cocaine lowers the threshold at which our pleasure centers will fire, making it easier for them to turn on. The three reasons our pleasure center's thresholds are lowered are we do a drug like Cocaine, have a manic high (Manics, bipolar.), or we are in love.
If a person gets high on Cocaine, becomes manic, or falls in love, they enter an enthusiastic state and are optimistic about everything, because all three will lower the firing threshold for the appetitive pleasure system, the dopamine-based system associated with the pleasure of anticipating something we desire. They are sensitive to anything that may give them pleasure, and are filled with hopeful anticipation. Things like nature, flowers, grass, sunshine inspire them; small but thoughtful gestures allow them to delight in all man kind. Doidge, the writer of "the brain that changes it'self", calls this process "Globalization".
Globalization allows us to take more pleasure in the world, and inhibits pain, displeasure, or aversion. Things that normally bother us, don't. We love being in love not only because it makes it easier for us to be happy but also because it makes it harder for us to be unhappy.
Globalization allows us to learn new things easier too; because when we are "in love" we are "happy, and it's harder to be unhappy, we like things we normally don't", and the dopamine helps the brain consolidate "Neuroplasticity". (plastic is the brains ability to rearrange it's neuro-connections to accommodate, the addition of information, sub traction, brain damage, "Hemisphere-ectimy" (I'm not sure how to spell it, YouTube - Brain Plasticity), and various other brain related issues.)

Freud once described the elated effects of cocaine to his fiancee, Martha, in letters. He says, he feels fearless, not fatigued, less shy, increased self esteem, no longer depressed, euphoric, enhances his energy, enthusiasm, and has an aphrodisiac effect. He was describing a state akin to "romantic intoxication". The book says in both cases, the Cocaine high, and "romantic Intoxication" may impair one's judgment. Recent fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) scans of lovers looking at photos of their sweethearts show that a part of the brain with great concentrations of dopamine is activated; their brains looked like those of people on cocaine.

When separated for too long, lovers crash and experience withdrawal, crave their beloved, get anxious, doubt them selves, lose their energy, and feel run-down if not depressed. Like a little fix a letter, and e-mail, or a telephone message from the beloved provides and instant shot of energy. Should they brake up, they get depressed- the opposite of the manic high...
After a time of being with some one, the brain doesn't produce that dopamine like before, if they adapt to well to each other. Dopamine likes novelty. (From NESTORAIN: Some people might say that their spouse/partner is too dull, but really they are just addicted to the unpredictability, and excitement that comes with exploration of a new place. You can do what you'd like here, but it may be wise to try and spice it up a bit, be random some times, spontaneous, and take time away from one another so you both don't get "tired" of one another.) Dr.Doidge believes that this means their "plastic" brains have so well adapted to each other that it's harder for them to get the same buzz they once got from each other.
Dr. Doidge also suggests if this happens to inject novelty into the relationship. Try new activities together, or wear new kinds of clothing, surprise one another. Pretty much keep the brain working, entertained, and learning fresh new things." _ The brain that changes it'self by Dr. Norman Doidge M.D.

I hope that helps, I didn't quite quote the book, but I did paraphrase, and used some lines right from it. Those were just pages 113-116. There is so much more to this chapter on love, mind you it does go into details on porn addiction, sexual perversions and how they may work/happen. Very interesting, as it is the chapter on Acquiring tastes and loves. Very interesting stuff, but if you're not into that, I guess not eh!

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, she doesn't have any psychological issues and that she's just a spoiled brat who is used to having everthing her way? Not trying to make light of your problem, because I take it very seriously, but maybe she's driving you crazy! I've dated a spoiled and bratty girl, and there were times where I thought that I should see a shrink!

Look, I know that you'll never know what's going on in that head of hers and more than likely never will. But looking at things from a different angle may help also. What do you think?

I believe that's very possible, but when I looked up the symptoms, they seemed to match the disorders. The spoiling may have developed the disorder or even be the disorder itself. In that case, any suggestions or other input?

Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, she doesn't have any psychological issues and that she's just a spoiled brat who is used to having everthing her way? Not trying to make light of your problem, because I take it very seriously, but maybe she's driving you crazy! I've dated a spoiled and bratty girl, and there were times where I thought that I should see a shrink!

Look, I know that you'll never know what's going on in that head of hers and more than likely never will. But looking at things from a different angle may help also. What do you think?

A spoilt brat who is used to having everything her own way? Princess alert!
Call a therapist immediately.

My disability is a mental illness; Bipolar, which is a mood disorder where you may be depressed and low, or super happy (euphoric) and high. They are to extremes that are often difficult to control. The constant fluctuations between the two “poles” change my behaviours in NEGATIVE ways. Affecting my life in the following manner:

Socially, I become irritable on a high, or closed off from EVERYONE, on a high.
Physically, I am rather chipper on a high, but on a Low I'm slow, mindless almost.
Mentally, I'm confused, distracted, slow, and lethargic on a low. On the High, I'm excited about everything and nothing, want to save the world! Or do the impossible.
Occupationally, I'm absent minded, slow, lethargic, irritable, frustrated (especially with slow progression of necessary skills to do a job.), Sad, disappointed with myself, angry with those who don't understand, Feel worthless.
Emotionally, On a high I feel like any thing is possible, and I can do what ever I want. That's the Euphoria, but when I'm irritable (happens on a high.) I get angry fast, and very aggressive. On a low, and I'm depressed I feel: worthless, apathetic, hopeless, empty, dead inside, confused, scarred, and angry.

This is apart of my bipolar. Yes, I do feel it pertains to this situation. Since you do not have a professionals working diagnosis, I will give you info on bipolar then. If you think she is like these, take her in ASAP!

I believe thats very possible, but when I looked up the symptoms, they seemed to match the disorders. The spoiling may have developed the disorder or even be the disorder itself. In that case, any suggestions or other input?

"Professional help";)

Nestorian, you are a fast typer.

I believe thats very possible, but when I looked up the symptoms, they seemed to match the disorders. The spoiling may have developed the disorder or even be the disorder itself. In that case, any suggestions or other input?

Thought this might help - this relates to NPD (I am not suggesting a diagnosis - just some behavioral pointers to keep you thinking and doing your 'research')

‘Gaslighting’ Techniques

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse that is used by narcissists that is deeply insidious and difficult to pinpoint. It works by instilling confusion. If you are being gaslighted you will lose trust in your senses, identity and common environment.

The narcissist will tell you:

What you are feeling and thinking;
That an interaction that you believed was decent with another person actually had agendas connected to it;
That your body language appears suggestive to other people;
That a friend or family member has made certain references about you;
That you were seen in a certain place acting inappropriately;
That you said or did something (you weren’t aware of) when tired, distracted, unaware, intoxicated or asleep;
That certain information was discovered about you;
That certain people (you thought were loyal) are now agreeing about your faults;
That the incident (created by the narcissist) was your fault, or merely a perception based on your paranoia or unstable emotions;
An excuse for the incident based on a ‘story’ that extracts guilt from you, so that you feel awful for making a ‘judgement’ about them;
That other people perceive you as bossy, controlling, manipulative, uncaring, incapable etc. (defective in some way).

Refusing to Remain ‘Topical’

A narcissist will dodge accountability in a discussion in a variety of ways:

Telling you repetitively to lower your voice;
Interrupting you with unrelated conversation;
Telling you to let them finish what they are saying whilst continuing to be psychologically and verbally abusive;
Making references to allies and unrelated people;
Telling you the matter is resolved without validating the conversation in a way that allows you to feel resolved;
Asking if you are happy to get that off your chest and then changing the topic;
Throwing in an abusive unrelated comment to anger or upset you;
Refusing to discuss the issue with you;
Bringing up an issue they are unhappy about, and treating that as the focus of conversation.

A spoilt brat who is used to having everything her own way? Princess alert!
Call a therapist immediately.

Oh great! Now I have one of those!
But seriously though, does the Princess syndrome have effect of a personality disorder?
Anyone know how to deal with that?

Gemini, I had read about the gasligting thing on that site you suggested, and most of it pertains to her. Just what to do about it?

I have gained a lot so far, and there's no way I woud tell her Im accumulating knowledge about it. Im getting a little better as time goes on with her, or at least I think I am. After a while, she seems to be able to figure me out, because lets face it, you can only be so sincere about those techniques for so long before she starts to catch on.

Gemini, I had read about the gasligting thing on that site you suggested, and most of it pertains to her. Just what to do about it?

No idea - it's too insidious.

(Keep quiet and nod your head a lot? Just joking. And I was joking about the princess part too.)

But princesses do want things their own way, and are spoilt - both of these things have been noted in PDs.

That's why I keep suggesting you speak with a counsellor.

Very insidious indeed.
Well at least I have more of a perspective on this.
Thanks guys, sorry for going on so much about it. At first, I didn't think this thread was going to go anywhere. You guys were great. My brain is so overloaded now, I better get to bed here soon. Have a good night, I'll keep you posted.

Through out my life I've been in possitions where I've delt with women who have been abused every which way you can think of. My heart still aches just thinking about them. The things that I complain about in my life, I often blame this on how I was Conditioned/ brought up, and the things they went through but still won't talk about it. A lot of people say that is "strength", but I've learned that it twistes them and torments them in ways that most don't pay attention to. So I realised that their lack of speaking with some one is acctually feeding their pain, and some even grow to like it that way.

I recall one girl, she was very self conscious, would tell me her BF was cheating on her. So I'd try to advise her as best I could. She even told me her friends won't listen to her complain about him any more, so I prommised I would not leave her. I kept my word.

The story goes, I fell in love with her as she was everything I could ever hope for in a girl. She wanted to be a teacher, I want to be a social worker, and she was smart, loving beyond any one I've ever met. She was caring, kind, funny, chill, and just so much more. Damn hot too. ;) any who so she splits with her BF, me and her get toggether, and she reminds me that she will probably break my heart. "No," I told her, "Only i can break my heart, for it is my choice as to whether or not i stay or go."
One night we were sleeping, and she hit me. Nothing too bad, but it kind of hurt. Any who I woke up and rolled over to see what was up and she was thrashing, and saying, "No no no no no no, get off me, let me go, stop it. No no." and moaning. I grabed her and woke her, asked her what it was about she said she didn't know what she was doing, nor what she was dreaming. We went back to sleep and as it happened again, I wrapped her up so she couldn't hit me, then I aske her what she saw. She laid out what she saw and with every word I was horrified.

She was hit by her BF, from a long time ago, at a party. She fell back wards and hit her head on a rock. He picked her up and shoved her in his truck. (SOme of this she told me be for hand, as she pretty much told me every thing. That's how I knew what was going on in her dream, and what to ask to ge the answers.) She didn't want to leave the party, but he forced her to leave in the truck down a back road. They were around an hour or so from town, and so about half way to town on this dirt road he slowed down for some kind of road obstruction like a big pot hole, but she opened her door and was going to run back to the party, she knew people would be there for the night and she could stay with them. He got out too, and chased her around to the back of the truck and dragged her back to the door, she hit him and he let go of her. She was about to run again, but he decided to hit her with the butt end of his rifle. The marks are still there, and you can see it had to of been hard. (This is where she stopped telling me while she was awake) He then took her, and in her sleep she was thrashing violently and hit me again. How she managed to get out, I've no idea, I had her wrapped up pretty tight, with my arms. Any who, she didn't really tell me anything in her sleep here, but she acted it out well enough for me to understand. I tried to quiet her, and comfort her, sooth her. She kept thrashing for a time and then started to cry. I'd never heard her cry even when here and her BF fought, and split. Then she stopped, me still trying to comfort her, and just went still. I could feel her heart rate slow, her muscles relax, and her breathing returned to normal. She was asleep. I rolled over and went to bed. She cuddled up to me, like usual, and I held her tight as I could not sleep. I was seeing the scean replay over and over in my head, still does haunt my dreams some times.
The next morning, she and I wok up, and I asked her how she felt. She said great, and all the usual stuff. Then I asker her if she remembered what she did that night, she said no. I did the whole question thing, till I put the pieces together enough to relate the story to her. Then she burst in to tears and cried for pretty much the entire day. She was raped by her BF from years ago, and not even her closest friends knew, not even the ex she just left knew. She made me promise not to speak about it to any one.

So you are wondering how my story applies to yours? Simple, she went back to her ex, and she was pregnant, and we still don't know a year later who the father is. I love her with all my heart, and I sacraficed myself many a time to be there for her. Whether it was her abusive mother, step mother, or her poor past expereinces with messed up BFs. She has been abused all her life and I gave everything to help her. I suspected some kind of spychological behavioural issues, but I knew it would be most unwise to try and tell her that. I was pretty much right. I just hope she is happy. In the end, I gave it all, and was not mad, but learning to accept what is even if I didn't like it, as long as she was OK. I learned to move on.

I've more stories of women telling me such things, but that one was the most painful, and the most dramatic.

Peace and kindness be with you.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/she-mad-again-what-can-do-341178.html

Let me start by telling you your in a dangerous uncharted area. Why? Because despite whatever your trying to learn here, its based on an assumption, and not the truth, nor the facts, and yes you are trying to diagnosis her problem instead of dealing with the facts.

Until she sees someone, and brings clarity to what you think is her problem, anything you do is a shot in the dark.

You have only one solution to your issues and that is to define the boundaries of good behavior, and stick to them, as what ever her problems, you can't help, because you don't know what they are.

Your spinning your wheels, and wasting your time chasing ghosts, instead of dealing with reality, and that's how she behaves, and demands things you are not comfortable with.

My experience with people says if you can't deal with their behavior, leave them alone, because they won't change. Doesn't matter if they are crazy, or not, as all humans have their issues. The real deal, is how you handle yourself, not them.

If you love this female, stand up for yourself, and tell her NO, you aren't doing that, instead of walking on eggshells trying to accommodate her, or diagnose her.

She is who she is, now who are you?

Threads merged.


Hi everyone,

Im definitely at that point in my relationship where Im ready to just end it with her. There just doesn't seem to be a point to it anymore, I've had my fill. Any one who has read any of my threads would know what was going on, but that is not important if you have or not.

All I would like to know is why do women (and men), but in this case women, play games with their men. What I mean by that is consistently accusing him of cheating when there is no reason to, blaming everything on him, and always expecting for you to ask them for forgiveness for things that are usually easily talked out but they refuse to. Breaking up, blaming it all on him, then when you give up, they say you were the one who ended it and they still love you, and doing this over and over. And yes, I understand that the insane part is the guy who keeps going through that over and over.
Why? What gain do women get from playing these games?
Has anyone here honestly done this to their guy?
If so, what did you get out of it?
Is there some possible psychological reason or benefit?

It's called PMS man, Probably Man's Stupidity.


That is a joke women, please do not beat me:(

Maybe because the person is insecure or like to point the finger at the other person instead of pointing it at themselve or they are guilty of something and is trying to throw the blame at you.

I am a female and I don't play games. If I want to play a game I play my playstation or Xbox. Playing head games isn't my cup of tea and there are gamers in both genders. If you see someone is playing with your emotions then you shouldn't be with that person. Plain and simple!

I see games being played by people who are younger and immature, once you reach a certain age(most of the time) the games stop. I don't like games, I don't play games. If a girl plays games, I walk away. Luckily, I found my fiancé, who doesn't play games or deal with my crap either.

Women don't play games with anyone's heads!

Are there exceptions? Of course. Personality traits will cause some women to play head games.

*Immaturity
*Self-destructive
*Controlling

The fact that you are having your head played with probably means it's because you are putting up with it.

People can only be treated the way they allow themselves to be treated.

If your "woman" is playing head games, lose the game and find a real woman. There are plenty out there.

You're generalizing a lot. Not all woman accuse their man of cheating without any grounds to back it up. It sounds like your girlfriend is very insecure about the relationship. If you think that you've done everything you can to convince her that you are faithful and she still doesn't believe you, then maybe she's not the right girl for you.

It's no fun to continue a relationship where you have to continuously defend yourself over something that you didn't do. With no progress or end in sight.

Time to let her go and move...

You're generalizing a lot. Not all woman accuse their man of cheating without any grounds to back it up. It sounds like your girlfriend is very insecure about the relationship. If you think that you've done everything you can to convince her that you are faithful and she still doesn't believe you, then maybe she's not the right girl for you.

It's no fun to continue a relationship where you have to continuously defend yourself over something that you didn't do. With no progress or end in sight.

Time to let her go and move ...

Im not trying to generalize, please don't take it that way and I know many guys do the same things to women also. I also understand I should not put up with it and don't plan to.
Im just trying to figure out what the benefit of those things are for them. Insecurity, immaturity, and things like that are definitely good reasons but Im just trying to understand the underlying benefits of that behaviour, because it sure does not benefit the relationship so therefore there must be some type of something the person gets from it.

Aside from immaturity and insecurity, I think for some women, they might be confused as to what they want, and changes their mind constantly.

Aside from immaturity and insecurity, I think for some women, they might be confused as to what they want, and changes their mind constantly.

True, but it's just strange that at 37 years old, two children to two different fathers (me being one), she doesn't know what she wants yet? I guess it takes an eternity for some.

Im not trying to generalize, please don't take it that way and I know many guys do the same things to women also. I also understand I should not put up with it and don't plan to.
Im just trying to figure out what the benefit of those things are for them. Insecurity, immaturity, and things like that are definitely good reasons but Im just trying to understand the underlying benefits of that behaviour, because it sure does not benefit the relationship so therefore there must be some type of something the person gets from it.

The benefit is the same as that of a child acting out... sometimes negative attention is still attention.

sabrewolfe agrees: Ok, so she feels the lack of attention. Good possibility. Thank you. Makes sense.

Do not misunderstand that to mean that you are not offering her enough attention. It's bad behavior, no matter how you look at it. She is getting a response from you and that is what she is looking for.

This isn't healthy for either of you.

sabrewolfe agrees: Ok, so she feels the lack of attention. Good possibility. Thank you. Makes sense.

Do not misunderstand that to mean that you are not offering her enough attention. It's bad behavior, no matter how you look at it. She is getting a response from you and that is what she is looking for.

This isn't healthy for either of you.

Your right, sorry to question you more about it though, but shouldn't she be looking to get positive attention which is mutually beneficial? I just don't understand how the arguing and breaking up is beneficial to her at all. We are not children, Im 38, she is 37. We both have children and a lot of responsibility.

Some adults learn these behaviors as children. When they feel that they only get attention for having choas and hostility around them, they continue poor behaviors.

I have completely read your other threads, but I know you mentioned numerous negative characteristics in her personality... has she seen a doctor or therapist?

Some adults learn these behaviors as children. When they feel that they only get attention for having choas and hostility around them, they continue poor behaviors.

I have completely read your other threads, but I know you mentioned numerous negative characteristics in her personality... has she seen a doctor or therapist?

No, she mentioned it once before, but never followed up. She doesn't really think she has a problem. She has also said that counselors are a waste of time. She's just too set in her ways.

You need to let go, for your own benefit and that of the children.

Dysfunction can't be changed. Two people have to be working on a relationship.

Maybe your just meeting the wrong kind of women.

maybe your just meeting the wrong kind of women.

No kidding.
Sometimes it's hard to tell or takes a while till you find out who they really are, and harder to rid yourself from when you have a kid with them.

No kidding.
Sometimes it's hard to tell or takes a while till you find out who they really are, and harder to rid yourself from when you have a kid with them.

Well at least you have been blessed with a beautiful child out of it. :)

well at least you have been blessed with a beautiful child out of it. :)
Sometimes we have to walk away from the dumb stuff (her) and deal with the good stuff that matters (your child).

Sorry to say, but you might be in this game for life. She will either be your girlfriend, or your ex-girlfriend.

To answer your question, in general I think people play games to pass the time and have fun. Someone wins, someone loses. If there is love in a relationship, there would be no games because no one really loses.

All I would like to know is why do women (and men), but in this case women, play games with their men. What I mean by that is consistantly accusing him of cheating when there is no reason to, blaming everything on him, and always expecting for you to ask them for forgiveness for things that are usually easily talked out but they refuse to. Breaking up, blaming it all on him, then when you give up, they say you were the one who ended it and they still love you, and doing this over and over. And yes, I understand that the insane part is the guy who keeps going through that over and over.
Why? What gain do women get from playing these games?
Has anyone here honestly done this to their guy?

Is there some possible psychological reason or benefit?

There is. I actually studied some psychology a couple years ago to answer similar questions. I'm sure you've seen shows or read books where they explain mating ritiuals for different animals, but nobody ever looks at humans as an animal. If you step back and sort of just watch humans as animals you start to notice patterns of behavior that cut across race, religion, history, or country of origin. At the end of the day, humans are no different then other animals in that we are "programmed" to mate to provide offspring for another generation.

Women are emotional creatures, by that men usually assume that means they want us to say "I love you" 50 times a day, cry with them, and be sensitive to try and relate to them, etc. In reality what that means is women were given the responsibility (in nature before civilization and the human invention of marriage) of raising their children while men went out and hunted for food or to protect the cave or villiage. A woman could not physically do that as she was not as physically strong as a man, and she had to take care of the children. So a way for her to weed out all the potential males for fathers was to use a women's best weapon, her own emotions and understanding of them to find the best mate and strongest male in the group (back when humans were in small villiages and not big cities) by constantly using games to test his strength. If he was constantly worried about her, he wasn't focused on getting food for the young or defending the home against outsiders, which meant he would not live long and not be a good mate. If a male was weak, and did not defend himself for the woman, he would be weak when it came to hunting or defending the villiage and would not live long enough to assist in the raising of the young. On the flip side, if he was weak, back when resources were scarce the woman would use his weakness to her advantage and get the male to provide her with what resources he could before he would be killed. It was a defense strategy for a female.

Fast forward 50,000 years, and societies have changed but the traits humans use for mating are actually very similar. One reason women constantly play games with your head is they are hard wired to do it. They are constantly testing you to see if you are strong enough for them. Today, we don't fight to save the villiage, but women may want to pick a fight to see how strong you are and if you'll defend herself.

We've all seen examples of a-holes who get women way out of their league and just go, "she could do so much better." But the problem is not that he's the jerk, it's that every other guy before him was so nice (weak) that she ate them and threw them out, when she found someone who stood up for himself, she believed that to be strong, because he'll last the longest to provide for her and the young. Just like her ancestors did in the caveman days. Society has changed, but human behavior remains the same.

Thanks Chuff, now Im starting to understand. I knew that there had to be some sort of benefit somewhere in her logic to why she behaves so destructive, but turns out there is some reason for it. So the mistake we make is taking it at face value, re-assuring them and telling them how much we love them and kissy-kissy, etc. which is what we think they want, but their underlying motives are to size us up? Hope I got that right. In that case, how do we handle these ordeals properly? Should we give no attention to it? I've tried that, but then it becomes an argument of me not paying attention to her or caring how she feels.

So the mistake we make is taking it at face value, re-assuring them and telling them how much we love them and kissy-kissy, etc. which is what we think they want, but their underlying motives are to size us up? Hope I got that right. In that case, how do we handle these ordeals properly? Should we give no attention to it? I've tried that, but then it becomes an arguement of me not paying attention to her or caring how she feels.

Indeed. For example, when something is wrong on the mistakes most men make is asking 53 times, "what's wrong" or "what you mad about." If there upsest about something so bad, they will let you know. So if they don't and they are acting in a bad mood all you can do is assume this her way seeing how you cope with her emotional state of being upset. Personally, I ignore it or laugh at it. Her problems are hers. I don't inherit them because I'm going out with her and she chooses to be upset. Some how we are taught that we have to solve there problems for them. They can solve there own problems, especiallly when they create them.

A relationship is based on two individuals meeting in the middle. Many men make the mistake of going over the line into her life to solve all her supposed issues because they think logically and it makes sense that if you solve her issues logically, she'll be happier emotionally. But she does not think that way, she thinks it's weak minded that a male spends so much time worrying about her and not about himself or his responsibilities.

Sometimes women will keep bringing up the same problem and we sit there and think "I already told you what to do, why don't you just do it and move on, this is so simple and could have been over with." The problem isn't whatever she's talking about, it's her female brain testing what you do about it. My rule of thumb is I'll give a woman advice, if she doesn't take it, the next time it comes up I tell her, "I already told you what the solution was, there's nothing else to talk about." I'm doing two things by that. The first is I remind her that I offered my help, and the second is I demonstrate to her in a calm, rational manner that I don't put up with the emotional games she plays, which triggers to her that I have some strength.

I suggest you do something similar. You're a happy person right? You've got one life to lead, and you want it to be for the most part happy. If she starts arguing with you, laugh at her and tell her she's being ridicules. She'll get more upset trying to get you to go along. Just keep smiling no matter what she says. You determine how you feel. Not her, and her attitude problem is not something you assume because your dating. That's her problem and hers to keep. If she starts yelling at you ignore it. When she asks, "what do you have to say to that?" flat out tell her, you're a grown man and if she wants an answer to her question she can talk to you like one in a calm rational manner. If not, this conversation is done. You will demonstrate that you care to listen to her concerns, but you will not be disrespected in the process. If she does, she doesn't get the benefit of your time. She will pout but just play it through and stay consistent, and she will actually start to respect you more and the arguments will be less and less because she understands in her own mind she's dealing with someone who can keep her in line.

Interesting questions that you pose Sabrewolf (as I've followed some of your previous posts).

What gain do women get from playing these games?
Is there some possible psychological reason or benefit?

I'm a woman, and I don't play mind games, but I do like being in control of myself and my life. I'm independent, intellectual and analytical and love being in a relationship with my husband. In reading Chuff's post I can understand what he's trying to say, but I don't see myself in it. I've never expected a man to solve my problems for me, nor would I belittle him if he was unable to. My husband and I have a loving, equal and open relationship and we bloody work hard to maintain it.

I actually think that it's hard to generalize about the reasons WOMEN play games, as I believe that both genders play games in relationships.

Having said that, I believe that when either gender plays mind games it's about CONTROL. The sort of mind games you describe confuse, destabilize, demean and manipulate the other person. The gain from this type of behaviour is that the perpetrator keeps their partner on tenterhooks, constantly wondering what they are doing wrong (or what they can do to right things) and the focus and power in the relationship is with the 'controller'. The other person's discomfort is, in itself, a gain for the perpetrator.

Now I'll make a generalization myself and say that more often women are good at forms of control that involve emotional manipulation. This is where they excel and this contrasts with the male's propensity for solutions based thinking. So the male thinks - 'what can I do to make this better', and the woman thinks, 'what can I do to keep him insecure and make sure his attention is on me'. She wins. The cycle continues.

Solutions are really hard in these circumstances, but as I mentioned in a previous post, and as Chuff so rightly suggests, it's about creating strong boundaries. You have to decide what you're prepared to put up with, and stick to it. This of course may not be sustainable in the longer term and may mean leaving the dysfunctional relationship and seeking a healthy one.

I can not believe the nasty advice you have been given. I am in the process of trying to get over a 2 yr relationship with a Hisotonic, Toxic Narcissist! One thing that is saving me is that I finally found out what and why I have been in this mental tourment for so long. He was like Jeckel and Hyde! I even told him that. I was ALWAYS wrong and he was always right about everything and anything that mostly was so insignificant to life I couldn't understand why I was always being lectured instead of just living. Then he would tell me he just wanted to live. I always knew what he was saying to me was definitely about him but have never dealth this such a wacked personality and when he was good he was the best and the man of my dreams. When he was bad he was my worse crulest nightmare.

I know know that finding out that every trait I read about is like reading a Bio on him that he would never really love me and that all that I did was never going to get me anywhere.

I am having a hard time not thinking about him or what he is doing and I understand that I need to work on that. I also found out that the reason I didn't run the first time he flipped and accused me of such BS stuff is because I had become a codependant from my 26 yr relationship with my ex-husband who was an alcoholic. So I am now trying to fix myself so I can live!

;)

Threads merged.


My ex girlfreind and I have been through a lot, we have been off and on for a long time now. We recently had a pretty calm conversation about things and about taking time to see if we could find our way back to each other in a sense. She has trust issues with me as far as female friends I used to have, and the fact that when she broke things off with me this past summer, I dated someone else for a while. We got back together, but it didn't go so well, she always seemed to want to argue about the past too much till I told her I was done. I understand we have a lot of unresolved issues, but my logic to that is we will never be able to agree to the problems of the past, so why even argue about it, I think the past is better left alone. Anyway, it seems neither one of us can completely let go of each other even now.
So now that we are taking this time, we agreed that we will not see other people. I would like to see if we can get along a lot better than before, and if it's worth pursuing further or just ending it for good. I decided to give this one more try, but Im not exactly sure how to go about it. We will be taking things extremely slow, and will talk and see each other occasionally. I would like to see things work out for us, I honestly do not want to be with anyone else, and I don't think she does either. Has anyone else gone through this process successfully? Is there any advice that might make things easier or more productive to working things out. I would like to have a woman's perspective on this also. I hope that I've given enough information on my situation. If not, I would appreciate any questions that would help bring things clearer. Thank you all.

It's unreasonable for her to have trust issues because you were with another woman, since she was the one to break it off with you. What were you supposed to do? Sit on your hands and wait for her to be finished with the men that she was probably messing around with? The funny thing is, after writing that last sentence I realized that that more than likely is what she was doing.

That being said, she's being unreasonable and definitely had her cake, didn't tell you how much and is now shaming you for indulging yourself. It's a trick so she can get all the control and power back in the relationship. Single women are mostly miserable and NEED to be with men to alleviate their boredom. This includes her as she was definitely getting with someone while you were apart, but she probably has a selective memory when it comes to her "transgressions". She was doing exactly what you were doing while apart and don't you forget it. Remember this and don't let her browbeat you into feeling remorseful for being dumped by her.

Leave your past in the past. If she can't get over it then she's obviously not worth it. I remember having a conversation on here with you before and if it's the same woman that I remember you definitely need to proceed with caution. You're a man. Remember to act like one.

All that being said. Give it a shot if you want. But don't give up any ground to her. Set boundaries and limits without saying them and carry yourself with confidence during this newest version of your relationship.

Good luck.

Sabrewolf, is this the same woman that you talked about in these threads?

All (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/why-do-women-play-games-your-head-348383.html) his threads were merged for the full story.

If it is, I don't know that there can be a way back. The trust issues will keep coming up again and again, and they will become the excuse for everything that goes wrong in your relationship.

Things will be OK while you're still uncertain and she doesn't have your commitment, but once you start to believe that you want to be with her again, you'll start to relive your previous problems.

Tread carefully. If you both GENUINELY want to resolve your issues, then counseling is the only way to gain a fresh perspective.

I whole heartedly disagree that the past should be ignored, as those issues and feelings always come back to rip you a new one later. Issues should be resolved before you can move forward, not ignored to show up later.

I think you both have had enough, and should resolve things for the sake of the kids involved, not to get back together.

Defining boundaries of good behavior should be at the top of the list.

Yes, this is the same woman. The threads merged by Tal gives some history to the situation. Im glad he did, I read back over some of those things and regained some more insight that is useful now.
Her and I spent this weekend together with our son. It was a very good time for him, he really enjoyed having that time again with both his mom and dad together. She and I had a few conversations, nothing too heavy, about our relationship. We both see the past differently and have agreed not to discuss it anymore, because it will only cause an argument. We spent most of our alone time peacefully watching movies and laying with each other. We agreed that neither one of us will date others or have any secrets from each other. We are taking it slow, and will just try to get along and see if we can rebuild what we had originally started this relationship based on. And also during this time, we are working on our own problems and issues.

We both see the past differently and have agreed not to discuss it anymore, because it will only cause an argument. We spent most of our alone time peacefully watching movies and laying with each other. We agreed that neither one of us will date others or have any secrets from each other. We are taking it slow, and will just try to get along and see if we can rebuild what we had originally started this relationship based on. And also during this time, we are working on our own problems and issues.

That sounds like a solid plan. Good luck.

That sounds like a solid plan. Good luck.
Thanks Tal.

Threads merged again

Hi everyone. I really messed up with my girlfriend now. Last weekend, I did something I thought I would never do and I am so ashamed of. I don't feel I deserve anything at this point. As some of you may know by reading some of my threads about me and my girlfriend, we have had a rocky relationship for three years now. She has been so unstable, and I accepted so much of her behaviour and tried so hard to make things work. Anyway, last weekend she came by. We talked for a while, she was yelling and telling me how she felt. She was crying and yelling. She told me we should just let it go between us and I agreed and peacefully went back into my house. About a half hour later, she came back crying and asking me if we could be back together. We talked again, she yelled some more, and I told her to just go home. She didn't leave, she just sat in her car in the driveway. So I went back out, we talke some more. She wanted to go to a hotel room together and finish talking and spend some time together. So I agreed and we went. Shortly after we got there, we were arguing again. She has a tendency to be violent, I had her arrested for it when we lived together. But this time, I got violent with her. I never thought I would or could do such a thing. There has been numerous times in our past and I would never hit her back, I would just take it or call the police. I could never imagine I would ever do such a thing. But I did. That ended things completely. I feel as though I became someone I didn't even know that night. And she never expected that.
I know I'll never be able to take back what I did. I feel so bad, you couldn't imagine how bad I feel. I want to write her an apology letter just to let her know how bad I do feel and that was something I never meant to do and how much I regret it. I need to do this, I need help, I know I don't deserve it, but I've got to do this.
Thanks for reading this.

Have you considered just breaking up. Both of you fighting all the time, each being violent and worst.

So before someone wakes up with a knife in their back, it is time to move on and get counseling

Have you considered just breaking up. both of you fighting all the time, each being violent and worst.

So before someone wakes up with a knife in thier back, it is time to move on and get couseling

I have, and I know this relationship has gone to far to come to this. No matter what we have been through together, I love her with all my heart. I just her to know that what happened that night was never something I ever wanted to happen. I can't even understand it myself, or what brought me to behave in such a way.

Before you ever want her to forgive you to perssue a friendship or maybe even get back together you need to forgive yourself. I know this may sound crazy, but you deserved to hit her back. You're the victum suffering from abuse. And yelling and arguing is indeed another form of abuse, both about the same, emotionally. Im not saying its okay that you hit her, but you had a right to stop her from hitting you. You probably shouldn't try to continue your relationship unless you want to go to counseling together. Id tell her you love her to death, and you never meant to hurt her, but three years of the same thing was getting old and something just snapped. And if it hadn't happened with you it was going to happen with her. Tell her you're extremely sorry. If you want her back tell her to go to conseling with you, after all. She sounds like the one that needs help.

"Unhappy couples tend to get stuck in negative, destructive patterns, they have fewer positive interactions than happy couples and are unable to resolve problems.” Does this sound familiar?

sabrewolfe, I along with others have been following what is happening in your relationship. I'm really VERY sorry that it's got to this point and I won't ask you to elaborate on the gory details.

You are clearly aware that it's never OK to resort to physical violence and I can understand that you're suffering because you allowed yourself to respond in this way. I can only assume that what happened is an expression of your intense frustration and anger and that you allowed yourself to be sucked into the drama.

Problem is, that by resorting to violence you've completely played into her hands. Now you're the one that is in the wrong and you will never be allowed to forget it. I also assume that the relationship is now over. If it isn't, it needs to be. You can see how destructive it has become for both of you!

By all means write to her. However, I would not, in writing, admit to any violence against her. Remember that this could be held against you and that she may even charge you with assault if you are silly enough to put it in writing. Perhaps you can simply apologize 'for the events' that happened and state that you never meant for your relationship to end this way. I would not, under any circumstances, be admitting to any physical violence in a letter to her.

Yes, you feel awful, and the relationship has ended under less that auspicious circumstances. But don't be silly. Protect yourself and put some distance between you.

This relationhsip NEVER was good for you - you have real proof of that now. Please, please don't ever accept bad behavior from anyone in a relationship again and don't ever yourself resort to physical violence again.

This is your wake up call - please do not ignore it.

Take care and be kind to yourself. We all make mistakes - sometimes even big ones.

I'm feeling a little angry about this to be honest with you.

The relationship has been toxic and violent and off the wall ridiculous since the beginning.

Yet, you keep going back for more.

Instead of walking away, you assault her. Instead of staying in your house and letting her pout in her car, you go outside 'to talk', and end up in a hotel room brawl.

Over and over. Pete and repeat. She says, you say, she hits, you hit, and the destructive dance goes on.

And you worry about an apology letter?

Skip the letter to her, and write one to yourself. Tell yourself why the relationship is over, and why this self destructive connection with her is ruining your life. Tell yourself what you're going to do to end it once and for all, and then sign it.

It really has to stop. An apology now is useless.

Jake is spot on-you need to be honest with yourself and realise why this toxic mess should be laid to rest.

You have a child together,the wellbeing and future happiness of your child should be a priority now,so get that sorted out.

Forget the apology,but maybe see a therapist for yourself,to go through your own issues.

You are all right in everything you all have said. I appreciate all of the caring input. I have been struggling with this toxic person too long that was beginning to change me into someone I never wanted to be. I did write an apology letter, and kept it brief. And I never received a reply, which is fine. But the strange part is that she forwarded it to someone, I don't know who. She still had access to my email account at the time. I asked her about it and she totally denies it, which Im not surprised. So anyway, it doesn't matter anymore. I've decided to put her behind me, have no contact with her, get myself staightened out, and will pursue legal visitation with my son. And if, and I don't know if she will at this point, but if she does ever come around to me drunk again, I will call the police and let them deal with her, and then I will take my son.

Great decisions,I wish you and your son all the best.
Good luck. :-)