"Racism ... still exists and I think it has bubbled up to the surface because of a belief among many white people, not just in the south but around the country, that African-Americans are not qualified to lead this great country... I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he is African-American."
--- Tuesday Sept. 15, 2009 in an NBC interview with Brian Williams



Now, before we disregard President Carter, we should keep in mind that this is the person who single-handedly created a 4-year recession, created the Community Reinvestment Act which was a major cause of our CURRENT financial crisis, mangled the Iran Hostage Crisis, created double digit unemployment, mishandled the OPEC fuel crisis, negotiated the failed North Korean nuclear program agreement which has directly lead to NK's current attempts at nuclear armament, has traveled the world to denigrate the USA and criticize US policy, and has accused Israel of attempted genocide for defending themselves against terrorist attack and over 4,000 missile attacks from Palestinian-held lands.

There. NOW we can disregard him.

Elliot

NOW we can disregard him.Hello El:

You can disregard him, and you do. But, if you pay attention, you'll see that racism still exists. I don't know how you guys miss it. It's going on all around you.

But, that's why I'm here - to bring you back to reality.

excon

PS> Tell me, as a JEW, how does it make YOU feel when your friendly rightwingers paint Obama up as Hitler??

The poor, grieved soul. I made note of his lunacy (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-black-396407-7.html#post1981658) yesterday, but I was even more offended by Rep. Hank Johnson:


"He did not help the cause of diversity and tolerance with his remarks -- if I were a betting man I would say it instigated more racist sentiment," Johnson said Tuesday. "And so I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people.... That's the logical conclusion if this kind of attitude is not rebuked, and Congressman Wilson represents it. He's the face of it."

And then today in our now thrice a week Leonard Pitts Jr. column, he made the logical jump from Timothy McVeigh to Joe Wilson (http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/leonard-pitts/story/1235636.html) using the latest Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center on domestic terrorism.

We unfortunate whiteys ``feel that this is no longer the country that their Christian white forefathers built, that they have been robbed, that this isn't the world they grew up in and that they are very, very frightened'' according to the SPLC's Mark Potok.

Yeah, there probably are some that feel that way but I couldn't care less what color any one is and I'm fed up with imbeciles like Carter, Johnson, Pitts and Potok playing the race card like the cowards they are.

Hello El:

You can disregard him, and you do. But, if you pay attention, you'll see that racism still exists. I dunno how you guys miss it. It's going on all around you.

But, that's why I'm here - to bring you back to reality.

excon

PS> Tell me, as a JEW, how does it make YOU feel when your friendly rightwingers paint Obama up as Hitler????

What bothers me is one of the world's most notorious racists, Jimmy Carter, calling anyone a racist.

As for anyone painting Obama as a Nazi... well, if the shoe fits, wear it. He's using union thugs to stop any form of protest. He's using his pet MSM talking heads to silence opposition. He's using the FCC to investigate and silence talk radio. His followers in Congress are calling for "investigations" of anyone who opposes him.

So, yeah, he seems to be acting like a Nazi to me. Not Hitler... Goebbels.

And if you have a problem with me saying it, take it up with someone who gives a damn.

Elliot

You can disregard him, and you do. But, if you pay attention, you'll see that racism still exists. I dunno how you guys miss it. It's going on all around you.

But, that's why I'm here - to bring you back to reality.

Allow me to bring you back to reality, we don't deny racism still exists. People like Carter keep it alive and well.

Yeah, there probably are some that feel that way but I could care less what color any one is and I'm fed up with imbeciles like Carter, Johnson, Pitts and Potok playing the race card like the cowards they are.Hello steve:

You can paint me too, as one of those imbeciles... I think the loony right is ginning up a race war. I don't know how you're missing it - but you guys seem to miss a lot of stuff.

But, I'm no imbecile. I'm a visionary and I'm right.

excon

The only people mentioning race are those on the left. Dowd, Carter, Obama, Gates, Boxer, Waters, Pelosi... THESE are the race baters. Nobody on the right even mentioned the issue of race until these fools brought it up.

The leftists are so stuck in race politics they don't even know when they are being racist.

YouTube - Senator Boxer Accused of Race Politics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_jGD5nZ6U)

RealClearPolitics - Video - Maxine Waters: Press Should Probe Conservatives For Racist Views (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/16/maxine_waters_press_should_probe_conservatives_for _racist_views.html)

Elliot

I think the loony right is ginning up a race war. I dunno how you're missing it - but you guys seem to miss a lot of stuff.

Put aside your prescient powers and look at the reality. Just exactly who is talking about race, ex? It's not us, we are NOT ginning a race war, Obots are. Obama himself set the example when he indicted the Boston police and now that he's faltering the Obots are coming out in droves with charges of racism and in the case of Johnson, fueling fears of a resurgent KKK taking over the country.

Peter Wehner tells it like it is (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/wehner/95992), "We’re only eight months into the Age of Obama—the period in which he promised to unite our divided country, heal our wounds, and bind up our divisions—and Obama’s critics are now routinely labeled as unpatriotic, racists, liars, mobsters, evil mongers, practitioners of un-American tactics, and more. As Obama’s failures mount up, it will only get worse. The volume will only get louder. And the charges will only get more desperate and incendiary.

It will be an ugly and sad thing to witness. Nervous breakdowns often are."

Open your eyes, ex and stop defending these race baiters.

Exit question, since Obama hasn't put forth any health care or virtually any other plan, aren't we protesting what the white, liberal elite in Congress are doing to this nation?

Exit question no. 2, where the hell is this healer of our wounds during this? Voting present?

Hello righty's:

I DON'T disagree with you AT ALL. The left are the ONLY ones TALKING about what the right is DOING.

excon

Hello righty's:

I DON'T disagree with you AT ALL. The left are the ONLY ones TALKING about what the right is DOING.

excon

You mean DOING, like Joe Wilson saying "you lie...boy." You mean like all those people in "white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people?"

You mean like all those people in "white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people?"Hello again, Steve:

Are you telling me that the only way you recognize racists is by their clothing?? Dude! I spose it's true, because you certainly don't recognize them by what they DO.

Look! You see death panels where there are none. I see racism where you SAY there is none. You ain't changing what YOU see, and I ain't changing what I see.

excon

Are you telling me that the only way you recognize racists is by their clothing?? Dude! I spose it's true, because you certainly don't recognize them by what they DO.

You haven't told us what they're doing. What exactly are they doing? Examples, please.


I see racism where you SAY there is none.

Allow me to provide some audiovisual aids:

What Joe Wilson said, "You lie"
TxHKSHvMRWE

What was heard, "You lie...boy" and "You lie you uppity n... and so on"
ZuRgm4gGf58

I know what I heard, what did you hear?

Maxine Waters has outdone you in your prescience though, she wants the media to probe all those "teabaggers" for racist thoughts.


"I want those people talked to; I want them interviewed," Waters told the liberal Bill Press Radio show in a podcast. "I want journalists to be all over those rallies and the marches with the birthers and the teabaggers (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/59015-waters-media-must-investigate-right-wing-protesters-for-racism)."

"What I'm looking for is the very people who carry the signs who are referring to the policies in very, very strange ways like 'Obamacare' and 'Barry Obamacare with Kennedy,'" she said. "What I've been interested in is hearing from those people that everybody's referring to -- everybody on the Mall, in the rally."

Is this what you want the country to come down to, probing citizens for racist thoughts?

Exit question, since Obama hasn't put forth any health care or virtually any other plan, aren't we protesting what the white, liberal elite in Congress are doing to this nation?

Exit question no. 2, where the hell is this healer of our wounds during this? Voting present?

Exit question no. 2, where the hell is this healer of our wounds during this? Voting present?Hello again, Steve:

It takes two to tango, but you're outside throwing rocks.

excon

Maxine Waters seems to think that referring to Obama's health care plan as "Obamacare" is racist.

Was it racist to refer to Hillary Clinton's health care plan as "Hillarycare" back in the 90s?

Was it racist to refer to Reagan's economics as "Reaganomics"?

Why, according to Waters, is it racist in the case of Obamacare?

Could it be because he's black?

And could it be that SHE is the one making the connection between his race and his plan?

And wouldn't that make HER a racist?

Nah, can't be. She's a card-carrying (is that the same as "certified"?) progressive liberal... she can't be a racist. Only conservatives are racists.

Elliot

Hello again, Steve:

It takes two to tango, but you're outside throwing rocks.

That's bullsh*t ex, they are throwing race bombs at us and you are letting them get away with it.

RACIST -n- What a liberal calls a conservative when the conservative has won the argument.

Carter is as phony on this issue as Sheets Byrd .


During his days in state politics, Carter ran campaigns that treaded dangerously close to outright racism. He once attacked his opponent, Carl Sanders, for preventing George Wallace from speaking on state property. (Carter would later write to one constituent, "George Wallace and I are in agreement on most issues.") Sanders was, Carter charged coyly, trying "to please a group of ultra-liberals." His campaign sent out a mailing featuring a picture of Sanders with two black basketball players—Carter's aides were later found passing out copies of this mailing at a Ku Klux Klan rally. Another campaign leaflet explained "that Sanders had paid tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr." In a detail sure to catch the eye of media- bias obsessives, Hayward notes that a Time magazine cover story on Carter's election faced the ugliness with the following gentle formulation: "To get elected, it was necessary to make some gestures toward the past."

The Claremont Institute - Malaise Forever (http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.977/article_detail.asp)

That's bullsh*t ex, they are throwing race bombs at us and you are letting them get away with it.Hello again, Steve:

I'm not making excuses for ANY of the kooks on my side. But, by you saying there's NO REASON to throw bombs, you're letting YOUR kooks get away with too.

What's the answer?

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I'm not making excuses for ANY of the kooks on my side. But, by you saying there's NO REASON to throw bombs, you're letting YOUR kooks get away with too.

What's the answer?

You can start by telling us the reason for throwing those bombs. I asked for examples, where are they? Thus far the examples these pathetic race baiters have given us are imaginary so what exactly are we getting away with?

So far, all the examples of "racism" that have been pointed out by those on the left haven't been racial at all.

Wilson's comment wasn't racial, it was a statement of fact. Obama lied. He didn't lie because he was black or white, and Wilson didn't call him on it because he was black or white. But DOWD called it a racial issue. Carter called it a racial issue.

WHERE IS THE RACISM IN CALLING SOMEONE A LIAR??

Maxine waters says the Tea Party protestors are racists. She wants them "investigated". Leaving aside the fact that even if it they were racist, they have the LEGAL RIGHT to be racists... protected by the Constitution, the fact is that they aren't racists. They simply oppose Obama's policies. They don't do so because they are white or black or because Obama is white or black. They simply don't agree with his policies and are protesting them.

WHERE IS THE RACISM IN PROTESTING WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE BAD POLICY BY THE PRESIDENT??

C'mon, ex. Show me the racism. Show me what makes "the right" racist. Please cite specific examples that relate to the statements made by Carter, Waters, Dowd and others... or admit that they were wrong, at least in THESE CASES.

If you want to argue that there are OTHER cases of racism besides the ones that Carter, Dowd and Waters commented on, I'm happy to have that conversation. But please cite specifics. Nebulous accusations of racism without specifics (which is all you have done so far) aren't going to cut it.

The fact that Dowd "heard" something that she admit was never actually said is a pretty lame accusation, don't you think? And the fact that she added the words "whether its fair or not" to her column doesn't make it any less lame... because she knows damn well it ISN'T fair to make such an accusation without evidence.

In England, she'd be in front of a barrister on trial for defamation and libel her head would be spinning. But we have more lenient libel laws in the USA, so she can get away with that crap here.

But I can play the game just as well as she can. For instance:

Every time I see a picture of Maurene Dowd, I see a hooker. Whether it's fair or not, I see a person who sleeps around for money. I don't know that that's actually what she does, but that's the feeling I get every time I see her. She gives the impression of someone who sleeps around with strange men and women for money. So she must be a hooker because I say so.

The accusation is not true. I know it and you know it... but I can make it anyway. That is the level of the accusation Dowd has been making. Carter and Waters did the same thing... accusations based on their personal feeling, but with no facts to back them up.

Carter just has a feeling that those who dislike Obama do so because of his race.

Waters just has a feeling that the term "Obamacare" is meant to be racist.

Where's the proof? Where's the facts? I may not be from Missouri, but I'm a believer in their state motto... "Show me".

Elliot

Thus far the examples these pathetic race baiters have given us are imaginary so what exactly are we getting away with?Hello again, Steve:

Let me see if I can spell it out again for you... SOME of the criticism towards Obama is related to his policy, and SOME is related to his race.

I'm not sure which part of the above you consider "we" to be in. If you're one of the former, then YOU aren't getting away with anything. If, however, you deny the existence of the latter, you enable their racism...

Let's take Joe Wilson. Tom thinks that I think he's a racist because Maureen Dowd told me so... In fact, I'm fully capable of making up my OWN mind about such things...

Indeed. When I examine Joe Wilsons PUBLIC RECORD, my mind reasons that he's a racist. After all, he SUPPORTS flying the symbol of Confederacy over the state capitol building in Columbia... That act, all by itself, tells me he thinks the people who enslaved black people were just fine, thank you very much... But, he did MORE. He had the tenacity to smear Strom Thurmons BLACK daughter by saying that her intention by coming forward, was to SMEAR Strom Thurmond... It's actually VERY disgusting... To anyone with half a brain, his racism is clear.

Given his disdain for people of color, when he yells "you LIE" at the nations first black president, it isn't a stretch for me to assume what words he's thinking, but not speaking...

However, if you find the public record of Joe Wilson to be VOID of racist implications, then you're part of the problem...

excon

You know Ex I was thinking the same thing You beat me to the punch about Joe wanting the Confederate Flag flying in South Carolina. Everything that flag stands for is racist. Plain and Simple. And of course here is the link.

Joe Wilson Confederate Flag (http://www.makli.com/joe-wilson-confederate-flag-007365/)

Let me see if I can spell it out again for you... SOME of the criticism towards Obama is related to his policy, and SOME is related to his race.

What criticism is related to his race? Have I, or tom or ET ever said anything critical that was race based? What GOP leaders are criticizing him based on race? Which talking heads? Who? What? When?


I'm not sure which part of the above you consider "we" to be in. If you're one of the former, then YOU aren't getting away with anything. If, however, you deny the existence of the latter, you enable their racism...

I have never, ever denied the existence of racism. In fact I said yesterday (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-black-396407-7.html#post1981658), "Once and for all, racists are scumbags." But this alleged racism talk this week is coordinated bullsh*t.


However, if you find the public record of Joe Wilson to be VOID of racist implications, then you're part of the problem...

I haven't defended Wilson on anything yet have I? He may very well have hints of racism in his public record but none of this is about that. This is manufactured outrage and it's incredibly unnecessary, irresponsible and dangerous. I'll be damned if ever support anyone in a party that looks at me as a racist and I will call them out on this pathetic, irresponsible bullsh*t.

Excon,

Let me get this straight...

Wilson isn't a racist because he called Obama a liar, he's a racist because he supports the continued use of the Confederate flag, which is a long standing symbol of Southern culture supported by lots of people who have nothing to do with racism.

I guess you hate the Dukes of Hazzard... them Duke boys must be a bunch of racists, ridin' around in the General Lee with a Confederate flag on the roof.

There were actually six different Confederate flags, excon.

This one was called the "Stars & Bars" and was the first Confederate flag in existence.

File:CSA FLAG 4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg)

There were several different versions of the Stars & Bars, with 7, 9, 11 or 13 stars, depending on how many states had joined the Confederacy at that point.

Then there was the "Stainless Banner".

File:Confederate States Naval Ensign after May 26 1863.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Confederate_States_Naval_Ensign_after_May_26_ 1863.svg)

It featured the "Union" (the X with the stars on a red background) placed in the upper right corner of a white flag.

Then came the "Blood Stained Banner".

File:Confederate National Flag since Mar 4 1865.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.sv g)

It was similar to the Stainless Banner, but with an additional vertical stripe of red to the right of the Union.

There was the "Bonnie Blue".

File:Bonnieblue.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bonnieblue.svg)

A White Star on a Blue background.

The most famous is the "Battle Flag of the Confederacy".

File:Battle flag of the US Confederacy.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg)

It simply featured the Union symbol.

And there was the "Naval Jack of the Confederacy".

File:Jack of the CSA Navy 1861 1863.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jack_of_the_CSA_Navy_1861_1863.svg)

7 white stars in a circle on a blue background.

All of these were in common use during the Civil War. And before. And afterward.

There was the "Succession Flag of South Carolina".

File:SC-SovFlag.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SC-SovFlag.svg)

It featured a horizontal and vertical cross of white stars on blue, inside a red background with a crescent moon and palm tree in the upper right quadrant. It included 15 stars. I don't know why, since there were only 13 states and territories that secceded. 14 if you count Missourri, who's seccession may not have been legal.

So... which of these do you think is associated with racism? Which of them are associated with Southern pride and culture? Which of them would Wilson have been right or wrong to support the continued use of? Which of them was he actually supporting the use of? Do you even know? Or have you simply decided that the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol without understanding what that even means?

Elliot

Hello again, Steve:

Let me ask you this... I again bring up the Mark Fuhrman episode on Hannity. His opponent on the panel was a black guy.

Did that happen because FOX just happened find two people on opposite sides of a debate?? I hardly think so. FOX is NOT staffed with dummy's. Putting this known racist in ANY setting where his opposition is black, is either highly insensitive, a mistake, or was coldly CALCULATED. I suggest the latter. I cast no aspersions about doing it. It's good TV and brings ratings. But, I suggest it WAS calculated to provoke a racial response. It certainly did with me. As they watched, what do you think was going through the minds of the racists out there who AGREE with Mark Fuhrman?? Do you think they were debating the issues in their minds - or thinking about race?? Why do you think FOX would do that? Do you think they forgot about the OJ trial?? I don't think they did.

Do you think I'm just making all this up out of wholecloth??

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Lemme ask you this... I again bring up the Mark Fuhrman episode on Hannity. His opponent on the panel was a black guy.

Did that happen because FOX simply found two people on opposite sides of a debate??? I hardly think so. FOX is NOT staffed with dummy's. Putting this known racist in ANY setting where his opposition is black, is either highly insensitive, a mistake, or was coldly CALCULATED. I suggest the latter. I cast no aspersions about doing it. It's just good TV and brings ratings. But, I suggest it WAS calculated to bring about a racial response. It certainly did with me. What do you think was going through the minds of the racists out there who AGREE with Mark Fuhrman???? Don't you think it brought out racist sentiments in them??? Why do you think FOX would do that? Do you think they forgot about the OJ trial??? I don't think they did.

Do you think I'm just making all this up out of wholecloth???

excon

What does this have to do with Maxine Waters' comments, or those of Jimmy Carter, or those of Maurine Dowd?

Maxine Waters was talking about the Tea Bag Rally and those who supported it, and the fact that they should be investigated.

Dowd and Carter were accusing Joe Wilson of racism when he said "you lie" during Obama's speech.

Where is the connection between Hannity and Fuhrman and what those three race baiters were saying?

As for why Fuhrman would appear on Hannity opposite a black man... well, I didn't hear a single racial outburst from Fuhrman on the show. Not one. Nor from Hannity either. Did you? What I saw was a civil, if heated, discussion of issues.

So... where is YOUR PROOF OF RACISM ON HANNITY?

So you can't even make THAT case, much less one that Dowd, Waters and Carter are right.

You're being ridiculous, excon. There may be racism in this country, but your examples sure don't prove it.

Elliot

You're being ridiculous, excon. There may be racism in this country, but your examples sure don't prove it.Hello again, El:

I don't make sense to dinning room tables, do I? But, to PEOPLE, I do.

excon

Hello again,

Not two minutes ago, FOX news conducted an "opinion dynamics poll". It found that the opposition to President Obama's policies are:

65% Honest disagreements

20% Motivated by racism.

Hmmm.. 20% of FOX viewers agree with me... Whaddya know about that? You're in the 65%, and don't EVEN believe there IS a 20%. I got it.

excon

Elliot,

I'm afraid I have to come down on Ex's side about the Stars'n'Bars, which pains me deeply as a proud southern gentleman. The flag which once stood for State's Rights and against unconstitutional Unionist tyranny has been pre-empted by General Stewart's vigilantes in their sheets and hoods and turned into an emblem of hatred, oppression, and regressivism. Racism is only a part of KKK ideology, but in this discussion it is the salient one.

Now, before we disregard President Carter, we should keep in mind that this is the person who single-handedly created a 4-year recession, created the Community Reinvestment Act which was a major cause of our CURRENT financial crisis, mangled the Iran Hostage Crisis, created double digit unemployment, mishandled the OPEC fuel crisis, negotiated the failed North Korean nuclear program agreement which has directly lead to NK's current attempts at nuclear armament, has traveled the world to denigrate the USA and criticize US policy, and has accused Israel of attempted genocide for defending themselves against terrorist attack and over 4,000 missile attacks from Palestinian-held lands.

There. NOW we can disregard him.

Elliot
A true lefty then

a true lefty then

Yes, Carter was about as far to the left as you could get without actually being a member of the Communist Party. "Progressive" doesn't begin to describe him.

Elliot,

I'm afraid I have to come down on Ex's side about the Stars'n'Bars, which pains me deeply as a proud southern gentleman. The flag which once stood for State's Rights and against unconstitutional Unionist tyranny has been pre-empted by General Stewart's vigilantes in their sheets and hoods and turned into an emblem of hatred, oppression, and regressivism. Racism is only a part of KKK ideology, but in this discussion it is the salient one.

Cats, I understand your point. Problem is that we don't know if the Stars & Bars is the flag that Wilson was supporting. The SC Succession flag is also considered a "Confederate Flag" and doesn't even have the Union on it. Which flag was Wilson supporting to continue to fly? I don't know, and I'll bet excon doesn't either. There are 6 to choose from.

Do you watch Dukes of Hazzard? Is it a racist show because the General Lee has the Stars & Bars on top?

Elliot

Do you watch Dukes of Hazzard? Is it a racist show because the General Lee has the Stars & Bars on top?Hello again, El:

Here's where you're being disingenuous, or you're being THICK.. I don't think you're thick... You seem to think someone has to UTTER racist remarks in order to BE a racist... If you don't HEAR anything - no racist there... What they DO, ain't got nothing to do with racism.

You seem to think some TV car that has a flag painted on it means the SAME thing as when the STATE fly's it...

I think you UNDERSTAND nuance and context and history. I think you SEE the obvious, but your winger credentials won't let your brain absorb what your eyes are looking at. That can only mean one thing.

excon

Not two minutes ago, FOX news conducted an "opinion dynamics poll". It found that the opposition to President Obama's policies are:

65% Honest disagreements

20% Motivated by racism.

Hmmm.. 20% of FOX viewers agree with me... Whaddya know about that? You're in the 65%, and don't EVEN believe there IS a 20%. I got it.

They did a survey, which found 20% think opposition to Obama’s policies is motivated by racism. They don't know, they just think so. By far the majority doesn't think the opposition is motivated by race, and the majority sampled were registered Democrats. So just what exactly have you proved here? Nothing.

Hello again, El:

Here's where you're being disingenuous, or you're being THICK.. I don't think you're thick... You seem to think someone has to UTTER racist remarks in order to BE a racist... If you don't HEAR anything - no racist there... What they DO, ain't got nothing to do with racism.

And what did Wilson "do"?


You seem to think some TV car that has a flag painted on it means the SAME thing as when the STATE fly's it...

Can you explain a difference? If it's wrong to fly the Union, then it's wrong. It doesn't matter who it is, does it. Or are you saying that it's wrong for the State of South Carolina to show the Confederate Flag, but fine for CBS to do so for 6 years on a TV series? You probably think that the standards ought to be different... cause you like one and don't like the other.

But again we don't even know what it was that Wilson supposedly wanted to fly... WHICH FLAG was he talking about? You are assuming it was the Stars and Bars, but you don't really know and have no proof.


I think you UNDERSTAND nuance and context and history. I think you SEE the obvious, but your winger credentials won't let your brain absorb what you see. That can only mean one thing.

Excon

Actually I do understand nuance, especially the way you try to use it to set up double-standards. There's a "nuance" in saying that it's OK for CBS to fly the confederate flag but not the State of SC. There's a "nuance" in saying that someone must be a racist even though you have no evidence of it being true, and when asked to provide such proof cannot do so, but still make the claim because you "feel" that it's true.

So yes, I understand "nuance", especially the way you are trying to use it. And I reject it utterly. "Nuance" is just another way of saying "justification"... you are justifying claims of racism that can not be proven.

When you are stuck with "nuance" as your argument, it's because you got no other argument.

Elliot

They did a survey, which found 20% think opposition to Obama’s policies is motivated by racism. They don't know, they just think so. Hello Steve:

So, you don't think that 20% of the FOX viewers were just telling the truth about themselves? Okee doakee.

excon

Lemme ask you this... I again bring up the Mark Fuhrman episode on Hannity. His opponent on the panel was a black guy.

Did that happen because FOX just happened find two people on opposite sides of a debate??? I hardly think so. FOX is NOT staffed with dummy's. Putting this known racist in ANY setting where his opposition is black, is either highly insensitive, a mistake, or was coldly CALCULATED. I suggest the latter. I cast no aspersions about doing it. It's good TV and brings ratings. But, I suggest it WAS calculated to provoke a racial response. It certainly did with me. As they watched, what do you think was going through the minds of the racists out there who AGREE with Mark Fuhrman???? Do you think they were debating the issues in their minds - or thinking about race??? Why do you think FOX would do that? Do you think they forgot about the OJ trial??? I don't think they did.

Do you think I'm just making all this up out of wholecloth???

No, I think it highlights exactly what I'm talking about. YOU think Fox did it on purpose with the OJ trial in mind. I think they did it without a hint of racist controversy in mind. That's how I think, that's how I live, it's how I grew up... as the overwhelming minority remember? I STILL live in a minority neighborhood and I see people as people, I don't LOOK for racism at every turn. FNC has a long history of having a most diverse guest lineup and I have never seen anything that would demonstrate even a remotely racist attitude.

I believe that's how the majority of Americans think as well, and there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that Wilson's outburst was fueled by racism. It's entirely inexcusable for people like Carter, Dowd and Johnson to indict the American public in this way, and they should be ashamed for their cowardly attempts to guilt us into kowtowing to their agenda.

Hello Steve:

So, you don't think that 20% of the FOX viewers were just telling the truth about themselves? Okee doakee.

No, you're misrepresenting the question.


Thinking about Barack Obama’s policies, some people say those who oppose Obama’s policies are mostly motivated by racism, while others say opposition to Obama’s policies is based on honest disagreements — which comes closer to your view? Do you think opposition to Obama’s policies is motivated by racism or based on honest disagreements?

* Based on honest disagreements 65%
* Motivated by racism 20%

The question wasn't "is your opposition to Obama's policies motivated by racism or honest disagreement?" They are answering with an opinion on the motivation of others, not themselves. 20% think everyone else is motivated by race.

Hello Steve:

Sometimes there's a YOU I'm talking to... and sometimes there's an US. You slip and slide between the two..

I BELIEVE you. I DON'T think you have a racist bone in your body. I DO think you have racists in your party. I think you DENY it, and I don't know why. Maybe, like the Wolverine, your winger credentials prevent you from seeing it...

I say that, because even after you are aware of the public record of Joe Wilson, you say his public outburst wasn't based upon his racist views. I believe somewhere above, you even conceded that he IS a racist. Yet, like Maureen Dowd, you deign to know what's in Joe Wilson's head, when he yelled at the first black president of the United States...

You are free to believe that it came from his stance on policy... I don't know WHAT evidence YOU have of that, any more than I have about what he's thinking... Except, I DO have his RECORD on MY side. That's bigger than what you got.

excon

I know better . Snoozeweak told me this week that we are all racists from birth.
Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt. | Newsweek Life | Newsweek.com (http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989/page/1)

Not two minutes ago, FOX news conducted an "opinion dynamics poll". It found that the opposition to President Obama's policies are:

65% Honest disagreements

20% Motivated by racism.
No, you're misrepresenting the question.

The question wasn't "is your opposition to Obama's policies motivated by racism or honest disagreement?" They are answering with an opinion on the motivation of others, not themselves. 20% think everyone else is motivated by race.Hello Steve:

Given that wording is CRUCIAL in polling data, I took GREAT care to word my post EXACTLY as reported on FOX. I didn't see or hear the wording that distinguishes "others opinion" from the respondents very own opinion.

I think I got it right... Cause if they weren't talking about themselves, they were talking about Uncle Donny Ray down on the farm...

excon

Why does the right always compare REAL LIFE with Movies and TV. They justify torture because it is in movies and then defend a racist because of the Dukes of Hazard?? Guys TV SHOWS ARE FAKE!!

you deign to know what's in Joe Wilson's head, when he yelled at the first black president of the United States...


This is an example of what the race-baiters call subliminal racism. Ex had to call Mr. Obama the first black president. Dowd, the Southern Poverty Law Center, Al Sharpton, et al. would call Ex a racist for saying that, and would admit that he might not even know he's a racist.

Are you, Excon?

Hello Steve:

Given that wording is CRUCIAL in polling data, I took GREAT care to word my post EXACTLY as reported on FOX. I didn't see or hear the wording that distinguishes "others opinion" from the respondents very own opinion.

I think I got it right... Cause if they weren't talking about themselves, they were talking about Uncle Donny Ray down on the farm...

excon

Ex, sorry buddy but on this one I KNOW I'm right. It is carefully worded and couldn't be more clear, "Do you think opposition to Obama’s policies is motivated by racism or based on honest disagreements?" With your view of it, 20% of the 42% of respondents that were Democrats are racists. I'd buy that, would you?

This is an example of what the race-baiters call subliminal racism. Ex had to call Mr. Obama the first black president. Dowd, the Southern Poverty Law Center, Al Sharpton, et al. would call Ex a racist for saying that, and would admit that he might not even know he's a racist. Are you a racist? Hello Cat:

Mentioning someone's race and casting aspersions about it are two different things.

Would it surprise me to learn that there are some kooky people who would think mentioning his race is racist?? Nope, not at all. If you want to label me a racist because I mention race, knock yourself out.

excon

I know different, Ex. But every time a talking head with more melanin than me comes on the tube that's the kind of propaganda they spout so they can justify their outdated jobs.

With your view of it, 20% of the 42% of respondents that were Democrats are racists. I'd buy that, would you?Hello again, Steve:

Sure, assuming that FOX's audience is equally broken down between Democrats and Republicans... But, even so, Democrats have PLENTY of racists in their ranks.

And, I agree with the wording... If the people answering DO oppose his policies, then I suggest they answered for themselves...

excon

I BELIEVE you. I DON'T think you have a racist bone in your body. I DO think you have racists in your party. I think you DENY it, and I don't know why. Maybe, like the Wolverine, your winger credentials prevent you from seeing it...

Never have denied it, just as there are racists on the other side. THEY are far more egregious at pretending they don't have any racists among them.


I say that, because even after you are aware of the public record of Joe Wilson, you say his public outburst wasn't based upon his racist views.

Nope, I say there's no evidence. Dowd's inference is not evidence.


I believe somewhere above, you even conceded that he IS a racist. Yet, like Maureen Dowd, you deign to know what's in Joe Wilson's head, when he yelled at the first black president of the United States...

Nope, I conceded the possibility.


You are free to believe that it came from his stance on policy... I don't know WHAT evidence YOU have of that, any more than I have about what he's thinking... Except, I DO have his RECORD on MY side. That's bigger than what you got.


I prefer to base such a serious charge on the ACTUAL events, not manufactured outrage. And as I said in my post on Obama being a black president this isn't about Wilson - Carter, Pitts, Johnson and others have indicted the American public and it's inexcusable.

Hello again, Steve:

Sure, assuming that FOX's audience is equally broken down between Democrats and Republicans... But, even so, Democrats have PLENTY of racists in their ranks.

And, I agree with the wording... If the people answering DO oppose his policies, then I suggest they answered for themselves...

You're still bobbing and weaving but I'm going to set you straight yet. The question was not "do you oppose his policies?" The question had entirely to do with their opinion of the reasons behind the opposition among the public, and I know you're smart enough to know that.

Why does the right always compare REAL LIFE with Movies and TV. They justify torture because it is in movies and then defend a racist because of the Dukes of Hazard?!?!?!?! Guys TV SHOWS ARE FAKE!!!!!

Yep... but it's a FAKE show where the GOOD GUYS are depicted as liking and appreciating the Stars & Bars. They GLORIFIED the Confederate Flag and turned it into a symbol of "good" that battled the "evil" of Boss Hogg on a weekly basis for 6 years.

So... were they wrong to do that? Were they being racist?

Because, like it or not, what is shown on TV has an effect in real life. What TV glorifies is often what becomes the big trend in pop culture and is copied by REAL PEOPLE. Particularly that show. There's a reason that a certain kind of denim shorts are called "Daisy Dukes".

The General Lee is one of the most famous TV cars ever, and lots of people have copied that vehicle, including all of its sybology. Are they racists too?

Elliot

Hey ET did you ever see the horrible movie remake of the Dukes of Hazard. When their car gets busted up and then their friend fixes it up and paints it with the flag on it. They go into the city ( I think Atlanta)get called racists and almost get their @$$ kicked for having a confederate flag on the car.

So in that light yes the original dukes of hazards writers or prop designers or producer or who ever let that symbol of hate be on that car are racists.

Spit, I love the Beverly Hillbillies. You mean to tell me the Clampetts were racist?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uy9QWMOL7QI/SAOvoL7nULI/AAAAAAAACos/1dIvqYkleE4/s320/RetroBeverlyHillbillies62.jpg

Speaking of racists, apparently comedian Paul Rodriguez is one (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/18/video-the-valley-hope-forgot/). He dared criticize Obama for cutting off the water to the San Joaquin Valley to save some silly little fish.


Comedian Paul Rodriguez says, “We could feed the world with this valley,” and while that’s a bit of an exaggeration, it certainly helps feed the nation. “The only thing growing here is despair,” Rodriguez says. “We grew more food with less water, and for our reward, you cut the water off,” Rodriguez tells Barack Obama, the candidate Rodriguez supported in the election. “What’s up with that?”

Yes they hillbillies would be. When Paul Rodriguez flies a confederate flag then I will say he is a racist. I actually agree with Rodriguez about those F-ing fish!!

Come on, criticism of Obama's policies is clearly racism. I'm sure jokes about ACORN are, too...

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