Are individual that walk in the spirit concerned, and alarmed sinners, or do they through the spirit destroy deeds of sin in their body, and fulfilled the righteousness of the law?

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


So have we been told that those who are the called according to HIS purpose, are justified? Then who was Called?

And in all things we are more than conquerors through HIM that loved us! Then whom does He love?

We have been delivered and redeemed to be similar to the image of HIS Son? Then who can sin or be a sinner?

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore NOW no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do you see a difference between having the "Spirit of Christ" in salvation, and being baptized in/with the Holy Ghost? Or do you see them as identical?

Do you see a difference between having the "Spirit of Christ" in salvation, and being baptized in/with the Holy Ghost? Or do you see them as identical?

I view baptism as scripture has wiritten, the flesh dead and buried with Christ. Having a good consciene toward God with the heart and mind in desire to HIS will being done. And I view so much more then the one baptism because we have One Lord, and One Faith as well.

full assurance ( Col 2:2 - Hbr 6:11 - Hbr 10:22)

I would not see them as identical..

Acts 2:4?

Acts 2:4?

Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Sndbay, This is the way I see it. "Having the Spirt of Christ". We are all spirit beings,
But we are conformed to this world and it's ways. We restore our self by pursuing
The Lord repenting and conforming to God' Spirits. Rom. 12:1&2, "I beseech you therefor, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice,
holy, acceptable to God, witch is your reasonable service. 2, And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."Doing bible things,
Bible ways. I believe Paul is saying we bring ourself before God each day, lay them on the altar before God, and ask Him to use us as sacrifice for His glory and good of His
People. And God wants us to depend on His Spirit to be transformed into people
Who love to please God through willing obediece. That transformation begins with the mind."
We will behave like a Christian, if we walk in the Spirt of God. Rom. 12: 9-21
We will also love our neighbor and live by the Law of Love. This is a part of living
In the Spirt of God.

Blessings , Maggie 3

Sndbay, This is the way I see it. "Having the Spirt of Christ". We are all spirit beings, but we are conformed to this world and it's ways. We restore our self by pursuing the Lord repenting and conforming to God' Spirits. Rom. 12:1&2, "I beseech you therefor, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, witch is your reasonable service. 2, And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."Doing bible things, bible ways. I believe Paul is saying we bring ourself befor God each day, lay them on the altar before God, and ask Him to use us as sacrifice for His glory and good of His people. And God wants us to depend on His Spirit to be transformed into people
who love to please God through willing obediece. That transformation begins with the mind."
We will behave like a Christian, if we walk in the Spirt of God. Rom. 12: 9-21
We will also love our neighbor and live by the Law of Love. This is a part of living
in the Spirt of God.

Blessings , Maggie 3

Maggie,
I appreciate your thoughts, and with all love and faith in Christ, I will example where it is not identical but similar to what Romans 8 has offered to the thread. What I view is how we can arrive at the fulness of Christ that is given by a measure of stature to bring us unitied with Christ as a perfect man walking in the spirit as one with Christ. Christ prayed for this (John 17:11)

In (Romans 12) which you offered, it is as you said. To be conformed to this world means those that are exampled as refer: (James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God)

Contrarily do not conform to the world, But refer: (James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded)

The verses in (Romans 12) goes on to say how in two different ways the members of the one body are gifted or dealt ("according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith" 12:3) or ( gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us 12:6)
So by our faith or by grace, God gives us accordlingly, "HOWEVER" none being the same, but each are different. (THIS IS WHY IT IS NOT IDENTICAL TO ROMANS 8)

I agree that the renewed mind is one that holds good conscience towards doing the will of GOD. And this is a sufficient measure of gift which we are told can be shown in One Baptism.

NOW go further to question the fulness of measure in Christ (Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ)

I view that they are not of this world or conformed to it ( John 17:15-16 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. ) (John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me)

NOW the fulness of Christ, having the Spirit of Christ refer: (Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live)

To mortify the deeds is to destroy the deeds of the flesh. So the first question on the thread = do they through the spirit destroy deeds of sin in their body, and fulfilled the righteousness of the law? YES, and it is no easy cross to bear

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galations 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

HOWEVER refer again: Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Thank you Sndbay, I am in a study on "spirituality", being restored by "Walking in the
Spirit" and conformed to God's Spirit. This is a very good study, and not easy, it is a slow
Study and I am learning. I do believe I walk in the Spirit of God at times, and Hope I get to the point where it is all the time. I am studying with a Dr. Mcdonald at oru. He is on
God's Learning Channel. He is on three times a week. A new lesson each week so I
Can hear the same lesson three times. It is hard for me to type what Ihave learned,
But it is a must study for the fullness of God.

Blessing, Maggie 3

Keep in mind that one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is that of Teacher.

The Bible cannot be properly understood without the help of the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(KJV)

Keep in mind that one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is that of Teacher.

The Bible cannot be properly understood without the help of the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(KJV)

There is no doubt of this... This thread has been refer as being through the Spirit

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Do you see a difference between having the "Spirit of Christ" in salvation, and being baptized in/with the Holy Ghost? Or do you see them as identical?

Galveston,

What I view in awareness by these question on the thread, and in chapter 8 of Romans, is that (today) the ministries of teaching, have neglected to teach beyond principle doctrine of Christ. (KNOWN as MILK) I trust they try to push and maybe demand discipline, by the principle doctrine of Christ.

Leaving it be, that only those who God has dealt able and ready to take on more can be gifted with this fulness in Christ.

(Hebrews 6:1) speaks of how individuals can go beyond into perfection. And I view no other perfection to be possible except through the Spirit of Christ that can dwell within you. And as the scripture says not laying again the foundation of repentance that is needed in dead works or dead faith in God.
This full assurance, full faith, and fulness of Christ is permitted only by God that reveals in accorance to HIS will.
Even (Hebrew 6:4-6) says those who have gone beyond to this full faith and fulness of Christ can not be renewed should they fall away from this perfection.
A good example of this full faith and fulness in Christ was spoken of in (Act 6:3) A fulness of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost.

Roman 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Are there so few that understand, if we walk having the Spirit of Christ, this walk is done through the full Spirit of Christ in righteousness because the flesh body is dead ( as spoken of in baptism) dead with Christ and dead to sin? The newness of nature is good conscience toward God and willing to do HIS Will and denying himself the lust of the body to follow the law of Faith (Phl 3:9)
(Romans 8:2 For the " Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" hath made me free from the law of sin and death)


HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son

I agree very much with Maggie on this.
Not to say we are Christian but by proving it by being a Christian and doing as Maggie posted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I agree very much with Maggie on this.
Not to say we are Christian but by proving it by being a Christian and doing as Maggie posted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

So your answer to the threads questions are YES to all?

Refer the threads questions:

1. Are individual that walk in the spirit concerned, and alarmed sinners? [or] Do they through the spirit destroy deeds of sin in their body, and fulfilled the righteousness of the law?

2. So have we been told that those who are the called according to HIS purpose, are justified?

3. And in all things we are more than conquerors through HIM that loved us?

4. We have been delivered and redeemed to be similar to the image of HIS Son?

Fred, I thought the Catholic church taught that we are all sinner, and such are, under the law and in hope of God's grace. They also teach that you are held accountable to sin, and not purified don't they? That is why you follow the teaching of Purgatory, a condition or process of purification in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven.

There is a difference in what Chapter 8 of Romans is saying from what the Catholic church teaches.

You see we were indeed set free from sin,(no bondage to sin)= (liberty in choice to live righteously and without sin) and it would impliment the consistence of God saying all men were called to be clean, and as Peter spoke of in Acts 10:28, none should be called unclean or common. (WE ARE CLEAN by THE BLOOD of CHRIST)

Not judging your fellow man because God gives each in accordance to HIS Will (thus if you judge man you are actually putting judgement on God's Will) The course of life in each is built and nutured by God by influences and conditions that God hands us. In the final fullness of FAITH we can arrive as the new nature leaving the old behind, not to look back at the mistakes of sin, but washed in One Baptism to walk in the Spirit. (CONFESSED FAITH in CHRIST JESUS UPON BAPTISM)

This is where the predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son has been spoken in truth. This is the hope that each would hold in their heart. Remaing stedfast in HIS WILL to be done, and surrendering our own will. We walk in Christ as He walked in the Father as ONE.

Maggie I would love to have you join us again with your knowledge of study in refer: walking in the Spirit. AND other Christians who have their own gift of wisdom and knoweldge in accordance to God's Will.

sndbay,
Yes, we ARE cleansed by the blood of Christ IF we believe it and do as Jesus instructed.
Yes, the Catholic Church does teach that we arr are sinners.
Jesus is THE judge of who is a sinner or not and what to do about that.
Yes we do pray that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And we should abide by that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes, the Catholic Church does teach that we arr are sinners.



Peace and kindness,
Fred

Do they teach we can be holy, that we can be conformed to HIS image of righteousness. I think not because they teach the principle doctrine of Christ Jesus, what is known as the milk of babes. (1 Corinthains 3:2 Hebrews 5:12)

Hebrew 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Here is a link for those who care to answer questions honestly.

The Way of the Master (http://www.wayofthemaster.com/goodperson.shtml)

ONE FAITH in ONE LORD and ONE BAPTISM can be the next step in surrendering to doing the WILL of GOD, and hope in being conformed as the new man. An appetite for Strong Meat (Hebrew 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. )

HOPE
Hebrew 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.


NOTE:
To sin without knowledge is to do in without conscience or knowledge of the sin.
ONE Baptism is the washing of the conscience, and directing the conscience towards doing the Will of God (Gift of the HOLY SPIRIT)

sndbay,
Yes, the Catholics do teach that we can be holy by the grace of God.
Some of that grace comes from the holy sacraments such as baptism and the Holy Euarchist when we partake of it.
A sacrament is something holy that has been set aside for a special holy purpose as established by God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Sndbay, This is one way we can know if we are living in God's Spirit. How do we
Respond to things that are happening in our life. Most of the time we think, and believe
We have the answer. Even when we pray and put our day in
The Lords hands we still believe we have the answers. Our believing can be put
Into trusting and believing in God in Faith. Most of us live in week faith, if in faith at all. There are answers to all our needs in God's Word, His promisers. I have learned and
Believe my strength and Faith is in the Lord, and I act accordingly. " I can do nothing
on my own, but in Christ all things are Possible,to those who believe."Mark 9-23. Claim God's promises that fit the situation, and Believe and have Faith the
Answer will come. Keep saying and believing God's Promises. This is part of trusting and
Walking in God's Spirit. "The just shall live by Faith" Depend on the Lord in all things.


Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Maggie that is true, and what you have said not only shows FAITH, but it means you are living by what you believe, and trust God's Will.

It is written in the book of James, that FAITH alone is not enough but that our works of communication and deed will set the example. As doers of the word, and not just hearers only, we are those who go by the law of liberty.
(James 1:22 1:25)

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

sndbay,
A sacrament is something holy that has been set aside for a special holy purpose as established by God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, When you speak of something set aside, I think of something on a shelf being held for a special and holy purpose?

Do you mean established by Christ Jesus, and fulfilled in HIS Word by the Will of Our Father and given to us?

sndbay,
Yes, that is what I mean.
Fred

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

ClassyT, I hope these verses will aid in our discussion


2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

"NOW"

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

I trust this is what you mean Fred

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal 3:10-11-12 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

sndbay,
Very much so.
Fred

sndbay,
Very much so.
Fred

Then let's go back to your question Quote:
sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

Actually scripture says go by the spirit of liberty and not the old letter. As I have posted the scriptures that says cursed is everyone that does not continue in the law (Gal 3:10-11-12). By doing as the law has taught us, and as Christ puts in our hearts, we are walking in HIS footsteps. We surrender our will to do the will of The Father .

Let's take what ClassyT has said
Snd,
I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin....unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it...the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin...we decieve ourselves!

We were in bondage to sin, and were servants of sin before the blood of Christ was shed. Now we have been brought and have been given the law of liberty, to serve as servants of righteousness. If we take our liberty to walk in the spirit, there is nothing bad said concerning those which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in them, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

If we take liberty to walk after the flesh we are (cursed) = (reap what we sow). We put ourselves in bondage to sin. Just like being in bondage to a credit card when you use it. Beguiled by satan like Eve was in the garden. God promised not to curse them as He once did to Adam. Instead through experience of reaping what they had sown, they gain profitable knowledge by the help and hand of God. Everything that satan attempts is overcome by Christ, and HIS grace in forgiveness. (if they repent as done in daily praying of Our Father's Prayer that Christ taught us to pray)

We stand in jeopardy evey hour of every day, but we can rejoice in Christ Jesus by oath. To stand against satan, and his attempt to beguile us. And yes to die (flesh dies to walk in the spirit) daily, and to carry our cross is not easy. We are asked to be diligent that we may be found of Christ in peace, without spot, and blameless.

When we are begotten again we are adopted as a child of God, held to obedience and righteousness of God to walk in the spirit, and not the flesh.

Spirit of Adoption
Romans 8:11-14 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Peter 1:3-4-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved(attend to carefully) in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Some do walk in the spirit of God but billions do not, most of them have never become familiar with Jesus and many have never heard of Him.
That's the way the world is now.
Please pray that many more people are converted to Christianity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Some do walk in the spirit of God but billions do not, most of them have never become familiar with Jesus and many have never heard of Him.
That's the way the world is now.
Please pray that many more people are converted to Christianity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

I believe in One Faith One Lord One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. God's will be done in HIS spiritual power to arouse and invigorate the spirit.

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Fred

Disagree..
Not according to scripture Fred. When the flesh body does end life here on earth, it will return (decomposing)to the dust of the earth. And the spirit returns to God. That silver cord that has the flesh connect to the spirit is loosen immediately.


Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

From there your spirit remain on one side of the great gulf or the other fixed until judgement day. Just as scripture speaks of in (Luke 16:26)

sndbay,
OF COURSE the spirit returns to God, but our flesh is in the grave.
Fred

sndbay,
OF COURSE the spirit returns to God, but our flesh is in the grave.
Fred

The statement you made is Quoted that we are all in the flesh even if it is in the grave. Not True, we are not out their in a hold in the ground. The spiritual body houses our inner self (the soul) and we are returned to God.


sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.

Fred

Do you think the earthly body does not perish into dust to return to the earth where it came? Even the ending trumpet examples how we are change permanently. (spiritual bodies brought forth leaving the natural earthly flesh)
REFER:
1 Corinthinas 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Scripture is telling us the dead shall be raised incorruptible (this dead is us, divided from or changed from the flesh to remain in a spiritual body) The only way we are incorruptible is in the spirit (changed). The flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Cr 15:15) That means the flesh can not be incorruptible. The flesh body returns to dust.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We were born with a earthly image of the flesh but we will only bear the second body known as the image of heaven. (righteousness in the spirit)

BODY + SPIRIT + SOUL (Baptized the conscience mind is buried in Christ = dead)

This is why we are told, while we are here on earth, diligently work at walking and having the spiritual body in control. Let your spiritual body control your actions to show righteousness. For the flesh body can not please God.

sndbay,
Sorry about that.
It's sad that you did not get what I meant.
Our flesh is in the grave but our spirit not.
Fred

BODY + SPIRIT + SOUL (Baptized the conscience mind is buried in Christ = dead)

Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.” (Augustine, City of God, 19, 3). I don’t see a ghost in this formula, do you? Man is both body and soul.

St. Thomas Aquinas views the soul as follows:

• The rational soul, which is one with the sensitive and vegetative principle, is the form of the body. This was defined as of faith by the Council of Vienne of 1311;
• the soul is a substance, but an incomplete substance, i.e. it has a natural aptitude and exigency for existence in the body, in conjunction with which it makes up the substantial unity of human nature ;
• Though connaturally related to the body, it is itself absolutely simple, i.e. of an unextended and spiritual nature. It is not wholly immersed in matter, its higher operations being intrinsically independent of the organism;
• the rational soul is produced by special creation …
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Soul (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm)

Where in Genesis did God breathe soul AND SPIRIT into material man? “And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:7). Ecclesiastes 12:17 refers to man’s death as the body returning to dust and the spirit returns to God. What is to happen to the ‘ghost’ part of man?


Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming. (Cf. 1 Th 5:23) The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. (Council of Constantinople IV (870): DS 657) "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God. (Cf. Vatican Council I, Dei Filius: DS 3005; GS 22 # 5; Humani generis: DS 3891.) (CCC 367) Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM)
When Paul uses body, soul and spirit as in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 he is referring to the matter that man is and the soul that animates man. ‘Soul and Spirit’ is referring to the entire or whole of man; like the idiom, ‘part and parcel’ which refers to the unequivocal essential part.

The doctrine of trichotomy is characteristic of the Gnostics who divided man into three parts, spirit, animal, and earthy. The doctrine sets up a dichotomy whereby earthly perfection is a perfect spirit, and consequently lives eternally. Such a view denies the immortality of the soul as an inherent characteristic.

JoeT

JoeT777,
Thanks for posting that.
It IS very interesting and though provoking.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.” (Augustine, City of God, 19, 3). I don’t see a ghost in this formula, do you? Man is both body and soul.



Joe
If you don't see a spirit or a ghost in the formula, I will try to help you!
Spirit, Soul, And Body - Article - Andrew Wommack Ministries (http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/spirit_soul)
Watchman Nee:Spiritual Man Volume 1. (http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968v1c1.htm)
Watchman Nee on the Tripartite Man (http://www.tripartiteman.org/historical/nee.html)
defining spirit, soul, and body (http://www.gesher.org/spirit%20soul%20and%20body/The%20Release%20of%20the%20Spirit.html)

Joe
If you don't see a spirit or a ghost in the formula, I will try to help you!
Spirit, Soul, And Body - Article - Andrew Wommack Ministries (http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/spirit_soul)
Watchman Nee:Spiritual Man Volume 1. (http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968v1c1.htm)
Watchman Nee on the Tripartite Man (http://www.tripartiteman.org/historical/nee.html)
defining spirit, soul, and body (http://www.gesher.org/spirit%20soul%20and%20body/The%20Release%20of%20the%20Spirit.html)

Thank you Adam



Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.”
JoeT


I trust what the word of God says, and perhaps a seed from the Word can offer an awareness of the body + spirit + soul.

Not only does (1 Thess 5:23 ) speak of the awareness to flesh body, spirit body, and living soul, but we have scripture that tells us we do have the two bodies. From the beginning the flesh natural flesh body was given the living soul, but we are born again or begotten again with the spiritual body that is the quickening spirit.

1 Corinthains 15:44-45 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The reality of what Christ did for us on the cross is far greater then what man seems to realizes. And the reality of what baptism NOW does from what was, is also far greater then what man seems to realizes. Understand that what was not first spiritual, but was natural, became afterward spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Cr 15:46-47)

Proof of what some men think
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?

Answer
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


One Baptism:Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Also: Romans 6:4)

Do you see that this is possible if by ONE FAITH you believe what the Word of God has spoken, and it is the operation of God's plan for us ?

Thanks Adam and sndbay.
Fred

Thank you Adam for e-mail address and thank you Sndbay for your teaching. I appreciate
You both. Maggie 3

"Spirit" denotes the soul of man, or a supernatural act of God within man, or a supernatural life of grace. “Spirit” is used in Scripture to denote the immortality of the soul. This dualism is evident in John 12:27 “Now is my soul troubled” then again in John 13:21” he was troubled in spirit” and again in Luke “My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” The intellectual part that animates man is magnified while the immortal part rejoices in the Savior, i.e. the whole of man, body and soul, is saved in a Divine grace for an eternity.

Thus, when we read Matthew 10:28 – “And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell;” we understand that the immortal soul and body suffer eternally in hell. So, if we hold to trichotomy what happens to the spirit?

If we can take idiom and turn it into theology then it seems to me we can take Christ at his word and conclude there are five parts in man, e.g. heart, soul, mind, and strength; as in Mark 12:30, “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength.”


JoeT

JoeT,
Points well made.
Man is made up of a trinity of bidy, mind and spirit (soul).
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Phl 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


Eph 3:16-17-18-19 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

"Spirit" denotes the soul of man, or a supernatural act of God within man, or a supernatural life of grace. “Spirit” is used in Scripture to denote the immortality of the soul. This dualism is evident in John 12:27 “Now is my soul troubled” then again in John 13:21” he was troubled in spirit” and again in Luke “My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” The intellectual part that animates man is magnified while the immortal part rejoices in the Savior, i.e. the whole of man, body and soul, is saved in a Divine grace for an eternity.

Thus, when we read Matthew 10:28 – “And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell;” we understand that the immortal soul and body suffer eternally in hell. So, if we hold to trichotomy what happens to the spirit?

If we can take idiom and turn it into theology then it seems to me we can take Christ at his word and conclude there are five parts in man, e.g. heart, soul, mind, and strength; as in Mark 12:30, “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength.”


JoeT

Joe
The living soul is the outcome of soil and the Breath of Life which in Hebrew is Rouach.The same word (Rouach)is used for The Spirit of God.
So, soil+Rouach=Living soul.

Adam,
Yes Rouach is Hebrew for spirit often used as the spirit of God.
What I find to be interesting is that it is a female word.
Think about that in relation to the Holy Spirit over shadowing Mary like a matron.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes Fred , it is interesting!

Here is what I believe the Bible teaches... we are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believed and accepted Christ as our Savior. SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT!!

The Holy Spirit ( or the new nature) cannot sin because the Holy spirit is part of the trinity and therefore GOD! From what I can read, and understand from the scripture... HE ( the Holy Spirit can be grieved or saddened AND he can be quenched) Which does Imply that OUR OLD nature... fleshy nature, the one we are ALL born into this world with CAN cause the Holy Spirit to be greived and quenched by our actions, thoughts and deeds.

Once we are saved or born again with our NEW nature we are to yield to Him and produce the fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. BUT we must DAILY die to our old nature in order to live pleasing to the Lord.It isn't always as easy as it sounds. Dying to your own fleshy, sinful wants IS HARD but it IS also possible. And THIS is what is so cool about living this side of the cross. It is ONLY POSSIBLE because of the Holy Spirit who lives within us. Before the cross, the Holy Spirit did NOT dwell within the people of faith. Oh sometimes the Holy Spirit came UPON them but that is NOT the same. SO... This is how God the Father can look at ME as totally righteous and justified. Not because I did anything to deserve it but because JESUS did. So POSITIONALLY, I stand PERFECT before the Lord.

NOW, does this mean I do NOT sin any longer? NO IT DOES NOT!. I DO sin (NOT my new nature for the Holy Spirit is unable to sn)... my OLD nature does. AND when we sin, we confess it to the Father who is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The reason I confess my sin to the Lord Jesus is so I can fellowship with him.. without something between us. ( you know how is is when you have a argument with your spouse and you don't deal with it? BUT there is something between you and your spouse or whoever you sinned against. Until you talk it over... the relationship is strained.) Therefore, I confess my sins to the LORD NOT so I can be saved because He dealt with my sinful flesh on the cross... ONCE and forever. I confess for a relationship with HIM.

Therefore as a Christian I DO have the Holy spirit indwelling me AND I have my old nature that I SHOULD die to daily. Until we no longer have this old nature we will not be PERFECT in our acts, deeds and thoughts. AND sometimes I am chastened by the Father for it if I won't repent. Spirtually however, I am Perfect in the eyes of the Lord because I have accepted His son and my Savior.
Does this make sense? I hope it does. I think it is wrong when christian think or say we are perfect right now.. as if we can no longer sin. Perfection and HOLINESS is ALWAYS the Lord Jesus standard... how could he ever say be less than that?? But if we could do that on our own, he wouldn't have had to die for us.

Sndbay... after saying all that I will now answer this question below that you asked.

We have been delivered and redeemed to be similar to the image of HIS Son? Then who can sin or be a sinner?

K? You ready for the answer... who can sin or be a sinner... ME! And I'm in good company because I can boldy say The APOSTLE PAUL and the twelve while they walked on this earth. Therefore I conclude, Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus, is sealed with his Spirit but still in this OLD body and still has their flesh nature CAN sin and can be called a sinner.

Sndbay....after saying all that I will now answer this question below that you asked.

We have been delivered and redeemed to be similar to the image of HIS Son? Then who can sin or be a sinner?

K? You ready for the answer.....who can sin or be a sinner.....ME! and I'm in good company because I can boldy say The APOSTLE PAUL and the twelve while they walked on this earth. Therefore I conclude, Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus, is sealed with his Spirit but still in this OLD body and still has their flesh nature CAN sin and can be called a sinner.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Perhaps it is to big of a cross to bear for some, and the might be destroyed is shown by failure to do as God wills. All are sinner, and all have been called.

ClassyT this is the Word of God speaking of the example REFER:Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Now dead of his body but not the dead of Sara womb that was unable...

20 thr 25 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The explanation does continue into Romans 5, and verse 5:8 says REFER: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Did that verse somehow show us as sinner before Christ died. ONE Faith and ONE Lord, and the One Baptism is really the LAW of Faith we can boast about.

We received the atonement from Christ, and 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

God does forbid sin, and these verses go on and on.. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.



~walk in the spirit

classyT,
Are you saying that you are 2 nature persons in one?
That is a person with an old mature and one with a new nature all living in the same bosy mind and spirit?
That is confusing to me.
I believe that once a person accepts Jesus as the Lord and Savior and does as He instructs then that person has changed, but still remains imperfect because of sinning.
OK What has change?
That person's attitude, belief, life style, and character changes but he/she is still the same person with the same genes and name.

Fred,

I have the Holy Spirit indwelling me... that new spirit or nature can't sin. BUT the Lord didn't just take away my old sinful nature when I became saved. I have to reckon it dead. It is an act of MY will. Having the Holy Spirit is what gives me POWER over sin and my sin nature. I don't HAVE to sin. That is important to understand. Unfortunately I do sometimes.

Yes, I have an old nature and a new nature and it is in a constant battle... same as the Apostle Paul wrote about in Romans 7. What he WANTED to do... he didn't... what he didn't want to do, he did!! There is that battle going on in us... but Romans 8 gives us the remedy for the battle... the Lord Jesus! He delivers us from that battle.

OH! I agree there has been a change in any true believer... we just didn't get that sin nature out of us! I have had wicked thougts before.. now those thoughts didn't come for the Holy Spirit.. they came from my old sin nature. I have sinful desires, sometimes I'm selfish, or grumpy, or ungrateful. That is because I have a sin nature. Notice that Jesus was NEVER grumpy, quick tempered, selfish, ungrateful .because he never had that sin nature. Do I make sense to you at all? I'm not sure I am explaining it well.

Sndbay,

The Lord Jesus' standard is GO AND SIN NO MORE... period. I agree with every verse that says we are NOT to sin. But... WE DO! (sometimes) WHY? Because we still have that sin nature that WANTS to sin... loves sin. My new nature doesn't want to! IT CAN'T sin because He is the HOLY SPIRIT and He wants only to do the Father's will. So anytime a born again Christian sins... you can REST assured it was NOT the Holy Spirit that indwells them. It was their flesh or sin nature. THAT is why Paul said to reckon it dead. AND why he had to it everyDAY. We are told to do the same.

One last thing... that old man WAS crucified on the cross ( Spirtually )like Paul said... but IT HAS TO CONTINUE to be crucified daily. Oh it wants to live let me tell you... least mine does and SURELY I am not the only one that has to die to my will everyday. Am I?

[The explanation does continue into Romans 5, and verse 5:8 says [B]REFER: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
~walk in the spirit

If you read the verse in context it means when we didn't deserve it he showed his love by dying for mankind. THAT verse is about HIS PERFECT love for us. It isn't about us NOT being able to sin after salvation.

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief


now notice Paul didn't say I WAS chief but I don't sin anymore. He was a sinner saved by grace..

I don't believe he went around trying to sin, he said he had to die daily. Now why did he have to do that? Because if he didn't... his flesh would surely get in the way. He said if we walked in the spirit ( the Holy Spirit we were sealed with ) we would fulfill the lust of the flesh or the old man.

You quoted his verses on sin and grace. Where sin abounds.. grace does MUCH MORE abound. What does that mean.. It means where there is sin... there is MORE grace! Then he goes on to say does it mean you can continue to sin? NO! But he didn't say it was impossible to do so... he said we shouldn't. Our NEW nature CANNOT sin.. it is impossible but our flesh can and does and when we do sin... we repent, confess it and move on.

If you read the verse in context it means when we didn't deserve it he showed his love by dying for mankind. THAT verse is about HIS PERFECT love for us. It isn't about us NOT bein able to sin after salvation.

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief


now notice Paul didn't say I WAS chief but I don't sin anymore. He was a sinner saved by grace..

I don't believe he went around trying to sin, he said he had to die daily. Now why did he have to do that? Because if he didn't ...his flesh would surely get in the way. He said if we walked in the spirit ( the Holy Spirit we were sealed with ) we would fulfill the lust of the flesh or the old man.

You quoted his verses on sin and grace. Where sin abounds..grace does MUCH MORE abound. What does that mean....? It means where there is sin....there is MORE grace! Then he goes on to say does it mean you can continue to sin? NO! but he didn't say it was impossible to do so...he said we shouldn't. Our NEW nature CANNOT sin..it is impossible but our flesh can and does and when we do sin....we repent, confess it and move on.


The name of a person signifies only one person which distinguishes it from all other people. Each person is endowed with one body animated by one and only one immortal soul. ClassyT has two natures, old and new? Which do we address? This is important - it makes me nervous - who has been submitting posts to AMHD, the old or the new ClassyT? So, when ClassyT-old addresses ClassT-new does the soul of the new animate the body of the old to speak, or vice versa?

If there were an old me and a new me, can I get a new me that's skinny?

I'm sorry couldn't help it. The idea of multiple me's seemed both hilarious and terrifying at the same time. I have a hard enough time keeping one of me in line. There is only one you, just as there is only one me. And when that one sins, it is a willful and voluntary act of disobedience to God by that individual. We can only blame ourselves for that sin, not the 'old-me,' or the 'new-me', or for that matter the 'other-me'.

JoeT

Joe,
Again I must agree with you.
There is only one me, you, her, him etc.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

classyT, I would have given you a greenie if only I could!
I'm with you and so does Paul!
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Joe,

Obviously I'm not explaining myself well. There is only one me and if I suggested otherwise then it was a misunderstanding. I did NOT get rid of my sin nature when I accepted Christ. It can't be fixed, or cleaned up.. it must be reckoned dead. The Holy Spirit doesn't and cannot sin. So if I sin, it isn't the Holy Spirit that lives in me... and JOE just for the record... I ONLY blame myself IF I sin.

classyT, I would have given you a greenie if only I could!
I'm with you and so does Paul!
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thanks ADAM! Whoo hoo! I started to think I was all alone here. This is Christianity 101!

adam,
Thanks for posting that.
It made me think it all over again.
In my heart and soul I do not want to sin and I do not but my flesh is weak and it does.
I am still but one person but my faith changes my attitudes for the better.
I'm beginning to understand where classyT is coming from.
Pace and kindness brother,
Fred

adam,
Thanks for posting that.
It made me think it all over again.
In my heart and soul I do not want to sin and I do not but my flesh is weak and it does.
I am still but one person but my faith changes my attitudes for the better.
I'm beginning to understand where classyT is coming from.
Pace and kindness brother,
Fred

I admire you so much.
Teach us more of what you got 'cause what you got comes from above!

Thanks ADAM! whoo hoo! i started to think i was all alone here. This is Christianity 101!

Wherever you are , you will never be alone!

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Who sold us to sin?



classyT, I would have given you a greenie if only I could!
I'm with you and so does Paul!
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Let me pin point one fact, and it is written in the scripture that was posted.

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


Were we SET FREE, and given the Law of Liberty?

Who did deliver us?


7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do you see the recap of what is being told. God ordained the Law from the beginning, and did man attempt to follow the law of sin. The Law did not fail them (7:22), but they fail because they were sold to sin (first ADAM) 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Walk in the Spirit

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Not in the Spirit
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.


Who do you follow?

Col 2:6-7-8 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

sndbay!
Dear sister!
I can see what is in your mind but I cannot see what is in your heart that causes you to think and express the way you do.
Please tell me what is troubling you.

adam,
Thanks for posting that.
It made me think it all over again.
In my heart and soul I do not want to sin and I do not but my flesh is weak and it does.
I am still but one person but my faith changes my attitudes for the better.
I'm beginning to understand where classyT is coming from.
Pace and kindness brother,
Fred

Fred...

I am only ONE person too. I'm talking about my flesh being weak and the HOly Spirit who lives within me is HOLY. I live with both. I'm not crazy... ( well maybe a little but that has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about) :D

I'm glad Adam could explain it better than I could! :)

The name of a person signifies only one person which distinguishes it from all other people. Each person is endowed with one body animated by one and only one immortal soul. ClassyT has two natures, old and new? Which do we address? This is important - it makes me nervous - who has been submitting posts to AMHD, the old or the new ClassyT? So, when ClassyT-old addresses ClassT-new does the soul of the new animate the body of the old to speak, or vice versa?

If there were an old me and a new me, can I get a new me that’s skinny?

I’m sorry couldn’t help it. The idea of multiple me’s seemed both hilarious and terrifying at the same time. I have a hard enough time keeping one of me in line. There is only one you, just as there is only one me. And when that one sins, it is a willful and voluntary act of disobedience to God by that individual. We can only blame ourselves for that sin, not the ‘old-me,’ or the ‘new-me’, or for that matter the ‘other-me’.

JoeT

JOeT,


Good thing I like you so much! Or I'd have to come through this computer and smack you a couple of times upside the head. ( THAT was my flesh talking... hee hee):D

Many people find me hilarious and terrifying at the same time, it is part of my "charm'. ;)

sndbay!
Dear sister!
I can see what is in your mind but I cannot see what is in your heart that causes you to think and express the way you do.
Please tell me what is troubling you.


What we have been given is a new nature. The "Old Man" as it is written in (Romans 6:6).. What about him?" The Old Man" was crucified with Christ. We are told he "is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" (Eph. 4:22).
"The Old Man" is full of desires or lusts. These lusts are deceitful and deceiving. They are in all things contrary to God, contrary to His Spirit, and His Word compared to the new nature, the spirit, when it is once implanted within us. In this connection, it is called to salvation.

"The Outward Man"; as being that which is seen, and that which actually perishes (2 Cor. 4:16), and this is "day by day". This tells us that as long as we are in the flesh, we must suffer this "burden": and that no ordinance connected with that which perishes, can be of any avail in that domain where all is, and must be spiritual; of the Spirit.

"The Heart" the natural heart, which is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9), so deceitful that it constantly deceives and betrays us: so deceitful that none but God can really know it. The Lord Jesus has some "teaching about the heart" of the natural man in Matthew 15:19. "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."

"The Carnal Mind." This aspect of the old nature is even more serious than the others. They relate rather to acts, and conditions, and character; but this relates to thoughts; to the mental activities, and reasonings and imaginations of the natural man (Rom. 8:7).


"Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen. 6:5).
(Rom. 8:7, 8) that this "mind of the flesh" is "Enmity against God." "Not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." And "cannot please God."
"That which is born (or, begotten) of the flesh is flesh"



POINT IN FACT: They are born of the flesh. Only "that which is born (or, begotten) of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).
"Whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever" (Eccl. 3:14)
"Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up" (Matt. 15:13).

POINT OF FACT:
"He That Soweth To His Flesh Shall Of The Flesh Reap Corruption" (Gal. 6:8). All efforts to improve the flesh, all provision made for the flesh, all ordinances connected with the flesh, all end in corruption and death: all "perish with the using" (Col. 2:22).



The New Man (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10). This is opposite to "the old man". This New Man, being entirely in the likenss of Christ, is called "a new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15). And "according to the image/righteousness of HIM that created him" (Col. 3:10).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation" (Gal. 4:15; Co1. 3:10, 11). So can we acknowledge that in this connection the new nature is called to salvation? YES

"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!

We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God (5:19)
Remember Apostle Paul saying (and all who have like precious faith) to cry out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death" "I thank God, He will deliver me through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 7:24). REJOICE!!!

The Mind (Rom. 7:23, 25). The word here used for "the mind" is nous meaning the new nature. This "mind" serves the law of God (Rom. 7:25) This is the Law of Faith in ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM (Eph 4:4-5)

And all this because God has created within us a new nature, which He calls pneuma-Christou. However, here on earth, it is our privilege to share His rejection. "The world knoweth us not because it knew Him not" (1 John 3:1).

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Point of Fact
If anyone desires the darkness of the oldman, it is their free will to follow darkness.

Sndbay,

The Lord Jesus' standard is GO AND SIN NO MORE....period. I agree with every verse that says we are NOT to sin. But ......WE DO! (sometimes) WHY? because we still have that sin nature that WANTS to sin...loves sin. My new nature doesn't want to! IT CAN'T sin because He is the HOLY SPIRIT and He wants only to do the Father's will. So anytime a born again Christian sins...you can REST assured it was NOT the Holy Spirit that indwells them. It was their flesh or sin nature. THAT is why Paul said to reckon it dead. AND why he had to it everyDAY. We are told to do the same.

One last thing...that old man WAS crucified on the cross ( Spirtually )like Paul said...but IT HAS TO CONTINUE to be crucified daily. Oh it wants to live let me tell ya....least mine does and SURELY i am not the only one that has to die to my will everyday. am I?

Yes ClassyT, you have detailed the Inward Man.


"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!

We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.


Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This one person of mind, body and spirit does try to walk in the spirit of Christ.
If I could I also would heal the sick and give sight to the blind.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

This one person of mind, body and spirit does try to walk in the spirit of Christ.
If I could I also would heal the sick and give sight to the blind.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

By the hand of God, YES, I believe your heart of love would Fred. May God bless you, and may you be all He created you to be my brother.

Gal.5:16 -26, Spirit and Human Nature
16, So I tell you; Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful
Self want. 17 Our sinful selves want what is against the Spirit , and the Spirit
Wants what is against our sinful selves. The two are against each other, so you cannot
Do just what you please. 18 But if the Spirit is leading you, you are not under the law.
19 The wrong things the sinful self does are clear: being sexually unfaithful, not being pure,
Taking part in sexual sin, 20 worshiping gods, doing witchcraft, hating, making trouble, being jealous, being angry with each other, causing division among people,
21, feeling envy, being drink, having wild and wasteful parties, and doing other things like these. I warn you now as I have warned you before: Those who do these things will not
Inherit God's Kingdom. 22 But the Spirit produces the fruit of love , joy, peace, patience,
Kindness, self-control. There is no law that says these things are wrong. 24 Those
Who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their old sinful selves. They have given up their old selfish feelings and evil things they wanted to do. We get our new life from
The Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not be proud or make trouble with
Each other or be jealous of each other.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Heart of Love

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Walk in the Spirit


1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Don't be doubleminded, and fool yourself

Gal 6:7-8 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Parable spoken by Christ

Luke 5:36-37-39 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.


Is this the heart of the old nature
Luke 5:40 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

To all here.
This has been an enlightening subject.
Thank you all for participating.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

If you take all of what was spoke on this thread and apply it to the thread of Baptism it makes a complete circle of love send by God.

Every baptism in scripture is done of water. Whether you are led to water by John the Baptist, or led by the disciples, all were bapized by the spirit of God, and water. ( and eventually that was shown of the early day baptism) Acts 1:5- 11:16

That is exactly why I trust that man can led you to water of baptism or preach baptism of the Holy Spirit, HOWEVER it take no hands of man to baptize of the Holy Spirit..


Let me example this another way,
The church priest leds the infant or adult to baptize them with water, so they were led to the water of baptism. It is only by the hand of God, known as the spirit of God, that baptizes with the Holy Spirit. The scripture in Acts have exampled that, by the word of our Lord. The Holy Spirit would be given by the hand of God.

I believe the spirit of God does manifest the revealed truth within the infant or adult when God Wills. And the Holy Spirit is not given until the confessed belief of the begotten Son, Jesus Christ .(surrender by their will and it is NOT the hands of man that forced you under water, but rather your will to submerge and be baptized)

That is also why I believe infants should be dedicated to God as infants, and led to water of baptism at an older age.. when the reveal truth and quicken spirit by the Holy Spirit can offer the newness of life, and putting a cap on the old nature or outward man.

The intention of the church is good, but God is patient to manifest forbearance in accordance to HIS Will.

This confirms was why Peter said the Gentiles who received the Holy Spirit must still be baptized of water..

************
What I believe is that Our Father in Heaven sent HIS begotten Son.(the soul of who Christ was). And Christ Jesus was born of blood and water. The blood of man that walked this earth was born of HIS mother Mary, and the spiritual body that He was was born of water the Holy Spirit. As a flesh man, Christ walked the same path that we are to walk doing the Will of the Father. As the Son of God given to die for our sin, Christ was raised to sits on the right hand of the Father.
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


For us to follow Christ

Matthew 20:3 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

May God reveal the spirtual body of awareness

John 7:38-39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

We had no hope of the Holy Spirit until Christ gave up the Spirit on the cross from His flesh body.

1 Corinthains 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Understand that is how by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that our Inward Bodies can be renewed daily.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man

May the Spirit rest within ~in Christ

sndbay,
So the baby jumps into the water by himself. Eh?
I sincerely doubt that.
So the Holy Spirit speaks out and says I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, eh?
I also doubt that.
Yes the Holy Sirit is involved but so are the men who perform the ceremony as Jesus commanded.
The Holy Spirit abides with those who are baptized properly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
So the baby jumps into the water by himself. eh?
I sincerely doubt that.

What Baby?

Edit:Add
I think u are making the point that I have stated. (Children might be able to come, and be baptism because they wanted to do so) However a baby can't walk or talk. (So who's will is it being suffered to righteousness, in being begotten again, or born again) A baby at birth is holy according to scripture, and today we are NOT in bondage to sin, so the baby is sinless to further it's walk to learn, and decide on it's own free will and Liberty of Faith.

Fred I was baptized at one month old by the Lutheran denomination, and my parents hearts wanted me to follow Christ. When I was older my heart wondered whyy God made me a person, and why couldn't I have been an angel. It was a child's question to God.

From that day on I wanted to understand more about the word of God, and got up early in mornings to read and talk my thoughts over with God. There were many reproves and I believe God was always there to help me. My heart wanted my body swipe clear like scripture said, and it is true that satan will come and try to turn you back from following God!!

My heart became sad and felt helpless to what was happening. God is always there if we listen, and my heart knew it and surrendered wanting nothing more then Christ. Wanting HIS Ways to be what I followed. My spiritual birth became a reality, and I followed my heart to be baptized of water fully submerged. I now look to never sin again, and the ability to stand still and hear my heart of love in Christ. Christ dwells in me, and it is a spiritual world of love. My once to die was my suffered/yielded choice in baptism because our LORD is of the living. I wait for the coming of the LORD
(Hebrews 9: 27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.)
********


So the Holy Spirit speaks out and says I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, eh?
I also doubt that.

The very act of baptism is the Spirit + Water + Blood = ONE

( 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth)
( I John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one)




The Holy Spirit abides with those who are baptized properly.


You are saying that the Holy Spirit (puts up with/abides) what man's hands and mouth say and do?

I believe it is a command from Christ that said go baptisming. It is the pastors and priests who abide in what Christ commanded.

The Holy Spirit was given unto the Gentiles by God, and Peter then abided by the command of Christ to say they would be baptized of water. (Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? ) NO we can't forbid it because Christ commanded it.. We must abide by what Christ did and said.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

sndbay,
The point I was trying to make is that God sometimes uses His followers to do God's work.
Men are commanded to do the ceremony of baptizing and thus the Spirit and water are also involved.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
The point I was trying to make is that God sometimes uses His followers to do God's work.
Men are commanded to do the ceremony of baptizing and thus the Spirit and water are also involved.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The laying of hands is what you are speaking of as it is a gift given to those chosen by God

Act 19:5-6 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Remember this too, because Peter told how wrong the heart could be to think otherwise.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul


The laying of hands is truely a gift of God, coming from God. It can not be purchsed or gained by any other source then the power of God. Peter told of this in (Act 8:19-21)And all having a gift from God should not neglect to use the gift. (1 Timothy 4:13-16)

However none can take this honour and attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen.

Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Christ showed us this to be true, because He too was the begotten Son of God

Hebrews 5:5-6 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

So look at it like this.. Your Father sends you something special, and HE gives it to UPS to hand it to you. (Who do you thank and give great appreciation to for giving you this special package?)

~in Christ

sndbay,
No I was not speaking of the laying on of hands.
I was speaking of the person who performs the baptism ceremony as John the Baptizer did.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, John the Baptist is known as a great prophet.

Like Paul has written in (Galatians 2:8), whether the apostleship for Peter or himself, it is God that wrought effectually in them both.
The same would be true in John the Baptist as the great prophet. And the same would be true of every one, evangelists, pastors and teachers. (Eph 4:11-14)

Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of HIS power

1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

However none can take this honour and then attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said, God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen. Those good stewards are the servants honoured to do what God has spoken and what God has given to them, to hand to us.

EPH 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

EPH 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

EPH 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ


Fred, if you believe something different, then please tell me where it is written and what the difference is?



Love
`in Christ

I don't get it? We are given a picture of a PHYSICAL baptism. John baptized JESUS CHRIST... physically. When the Lord Jesus commanded us to baptize one another... he meant physically. Therefore it takes another human being to baptize another. I mean to make this something else.. I don't understand?? NO PERSON can baptize themselves. It just isn't possible. It isn't BIBLICAL!! You can walk into a body of water and go under, but I suggest you are simply SWIMMING. Or taking a bath!! It isn't a biblical baptism accoording to the Bible.

Baptism is done this way so that OTHERS can witness your confession of what Christ did on the cross and that you WANT to die to self and live for him. It is a physical and Outward expression of a inward change that has ALREADY taken place. BEFORE the baptism!!

Eph 1:11-14 tells us... we hear the gospel, we believe the gospel and then we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. BAPTISM is NOT a requirement. To ADD baptism is ADDING something to Paul's Gospel and we are warned AGAINST such a thing in Galatians. CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK... It is DONE... all there is left is accepting his WORK as enough. It is ENOUGH for me.

my my how we complicate the Gospel and take verses out of context, misunderstand who is writing, why it was written and who it is directly written too! GUYS... it is called rightly dividing the word of truth.

ClassyT, Who reveals unto us the wisdom of truth? Who permits some to see, and some to be blind?

Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

SO That: the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him (Eph 1:17)





ClassyT who is HIS glory? Who first trusted in Christ?

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (It says sealed with That holy Spirit of Promise!)

(Which is?)
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

ClassyT, How are we begotten again rather then begotten of man by flesh?

The seal of God in our forehead is the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!!! who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Heavenly places is the spiritual realm of heaven.So that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

How can you be holy without being born again, (or) known as begotten again in Christ?

You must die with Christ on the cross, buried with Christ, in baptism!!



So that we can once die, and then be born again. Begotten again in Christ Jesus. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


~child of God

sndbay,
I KNOW THAT!!
So what! John the Baptizer, a man, baptized Jesus.
It takes another person to perform the physical ceremony of baptism of one is to be performed; always did, and always will be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
I KNOW THAT!!!
So what! John the Baptizer, a man, baptized Jesus.
It takes another person to perform the physical ceremony of baptism of one is to be performed; always did, and always will be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

That is saying they are baptized in the name of John.

1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

It is exactly why Paul chose not to baptize but a few, because people might say it was Paul who baptized them.( 1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. )


Matthew 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.


Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

sndbay, NO!
Thaey are baptized my a person in the name of the Father, So, and Holy Sprit if done properly as Jesus instructed.
You know that I think.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay, NO!
Thaey are baptized my a person in the name of the Father, So, and Holy Sprit if done properly as Jesus instructed.
You know that I think.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I believe..

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which is the same spiritual Rock that is with us always. And the same that baptized Moses and those that went with him in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

In the name of Father Son, and Holy Spirit

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

The Spirit

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THOU SHALT BE SAVED. ( where is the physical act of baptism?) It is NOT THERE because SALVATION is of the LORD.

If though shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in thy Heart that God hath raised him from the dead... THOU SHALT BE SAVED. ( where is the physical act of baptism?) it isn't there because Salvation is of the LORD.

Then again the verse in Eph.:

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

The HOLY SPIRIT who the LORD JESUS himself PROMISED us... comes to dwell in us.. WHEN? (after a physical act of baptism? ) NO! After we BELIEVED.

HE DID the work, HE puts me in Christ, HE puts Christ in me. All I do is BELIEVE!


You can add to it if you want... put up random verses that have NOTHING in the WORLD to do with Physical baptism that takes two human beings to accomplish BUT.. still this truth remans... "Salvation is of the Lord."—Jonah 2:9

"Salvation is of the Lord."—Jonah 2:9


Salvation Through

2 Timothy 2:12-13-14 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.




The HOLY SPIRIT who the LORD JESUS himself PROMISED us...comes to dwell in us ..WHEN? (after a physical act of baptism? ) NO! after we BELIEVED.


Sanctification and Faith = One Lord One Faith One Baptism
Gal 3:26-27 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

You can add to it if you want....put up random verses that have NOTHING in the WORLD to do with Physical baptism that takes two human beings to accomplish BUT.. still this truth remans....

Point known.. Christ is not divided! It is not the hands of servants, but it is the baptism of one Spirit. (spiritual binding body and spirit)

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Snd,

The verses you refer to are not speaking about a physical baptism. It is what the Lord Jesus does after we believe... it is all spirtually done. I'm In Christ, Christ is IN me... all of this is done by the Lord. We can't see it we can't feel it and we can't do it. The LORD does it all.

Salvation is of the LORD! His finished work. There is ONLY ONE BODY of Christ... and ONLY one FAITH and ONLY ONE WAY to get there. Of that I agree... I

IF we truly believe in Jesus Christ then we will do as he says do and being baptized is one of them.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

IF we truly believe in Jesus Christ then we will do as he says do and being baptized is one of them.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred I did try to give you a green tag..

Agree! Because salvation is based as scripture says on sanctification of obedience and truth. It is the Holy Spirit /water, and Christ Jesus/blood as "ONE" that is put on to walk as HE walked.

James 2:6 For as the body without the Spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Snd,


Salvation is of the LORD! His finished work. There is ONLY ONE BODY of Christ...

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling




and ONLY one FAITH and ONLY ONE WAY to get there. Of that I agree...i

*
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.




**
By the blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit as ONE with HIM

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Christ set you free from sin, but without the Holy Spirit of ONE Baptism you can not be guided in holiness, blameless, and without sin. the individual has not put on Christ.. (body and spirit EPH 4:4)
The OUTWARD MAN CONTINUES TO SIN, perishes day by day, and the inward newness man is not born. Can not be renewed day by day (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16)

Sure there is FAITH, but no works in those who believe in ONE LORD yet do not believe ONE BAPTISM.

ClassyT I know you will say Hebrews 11 shows Faith as being what was enough. But ask yourself, are they in a time frame of before the HOLY SPIRIT was given? Were they under a different covenant and promise?(Hebrews 11:39) God has a better way for us today... This is where rightly dividing the word is important.


***
The Spirit of the LORD was there to baptize!

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the LORD caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

IF we truly believe in Jesus Christ then we will do as he says do and being baptized is one of them.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

Couldn't agree with you MORE... I believe we should be baptized. I was, and my children made the decision to be baptized too! If you believe in HIM... you OBEY Him. It just doesn't SAVE us from our sins. That is my only point. I've said it every way I know how... and I backed it up with the word. I think EVERYONE understands my position. So... I guess I will shut up. On this topic anyway :D

Are individual that walk in the spirit concerned, and alarmed sinners, or do they through the spirit destroy deeds of sin in their body, and fulfilled the righteousness of the law?


Thread question..

Thread answer:

IF they are walking in the spirit they are dying to their sinful nature and fulfilling the law of righteousness. But it is something one must do daily or moment by moment because we are left with our sin nature. It doesn't just go when we accept the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thread answer:

IF they are walking in the spirit they are dying to their sinful nature and fulfilling the law of righteousness. But it is something one must do daily or moment by moment because we are left with our sin nature. It doesn't just go when we accept the Lord Jesus Christ.



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of HIS.

Noted to:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those that do sin are as scripture says in 1st John 3

1 John 3: 4-5-6 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that HE was manifested to take away our sins; and in HIM is no sin. Whosoever abideth in HIM sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen HIM, neither known HIM.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as HE is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that HE might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for HIS seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

KJV

~THE WORD of GOD / Christ Jesus

Snd,

Positionally you are right! This is exactly how God sees us because of the Lord Jesus Christ. But Paul had to die daily and so do I. Good for you if you don't. I woludn't know anything at all about it. I still have to say NO to my flesh and occasionally it gets the best of me. Actually I have gotten irritated on AMHD before... and even that is a sin.

One last thought... our new nature cannot sin... I do not suggest it does.

But we have been around this mountain before. We don't agree much theologically but at least we both believe that the Lord Jesus Christ IS God and he came to save sinners. So I'm focusing on the positive. :)

sndbay, hanks for the attempted green tag.
I've tried to give them but it just not work for me.
Peace and kindness.
Fred

Snd,

Positionally you are right! This is exactly how God sees us because of the Lord Jesus Christ. But Paul had to die daily and so do I. Good for you if you don't. I woludn't know anything at all about it. I still have to say NO to my flesh and occasionally it gets the best of me. Actually I have gotten irritated on AMHD before...and even that is a sin.

ClassyT,

With all my heart of love for Christ, and for mankind, I desire the truth to be known for all. It is not me that is right but it is the Spirit that is truth. I offered the Word of Christ Jesus

Mankind must allow the Spirit within them. Surrendering in Faith of all that is written, for it is the Word of God. (the better way and covenant of promise)

Paul did willingly die daily, because he had put on the Spirit to walk in, and he was not permitting his flesh to walk in sin. (that is our cross of death, not hanging out there on a tree. But, buried in Christ) We live by following Christ Jesus, the bread of life.(walking in righteousness, walking in the Spirit).

We do have to say NO to our flesh, and remain stedfast in Love and Faith, not permitting ourselves to be beguiled as Eve was by satan. Repent of all sins, and go forward walking in the Spirit. (blood and water)

Belief in prayer, and the helping hand and strength of our Lord that dwells in us. ASK anything in HIS name, but remember it needs to be the will of God. AND, It is the will of God that we all follow, and walk in the Spirit.






One last thought...our new nature cannot sin...i do not suggest it does.

But we have been around this mountain before. We don't agree much theologically but at least we both believe that the Lord Jesus Christ IS God and he came to save sinners. So I'm focusing on the positive. :)

Yes this is true. And I trust our difference is that I do not follow man or the denominations of religions.

I follow the Bishop and Shepherd of the soul. The church is the house of God, in which we go to give thanks and praise to God.(Hebrew 12:23-24)
Those that are born of the Spirit (begotten again) they are the adopted children of God, they are the little children who can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The many members of one body in Christ is the fellowship of converted Christians.

I trust and have faith in the covenant of blood, the living bread of life,(John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. ) and quench not the Spirit, the well of eternal life (John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. )

All mankind of the old covenant followed men such as Moses, Abraham and John the Baptist. Moses had the law of God, Abraham had the heart of love, and John the Baptist was the greatest of prophet calling in the wilderness to bring the WORD/who was Christ that would come. And people depended on the priesthood to offer up blood for their forgiveness. They were faithful servants doing the works that were done by faith held for God. (Hebrews 11)

We today have the new covenant, and have been returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls. (1 Peter 2:25)
Who dwells within us, if we answer the one hope of our calling in One LORD, One FAITH, One BAPTISM, and One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (we have put on Christ)



One last thought, Look at the scripture when Paul is teaching. Paul is in the Spirit, speak in the Spirit and comforting by the Spirit (This is the tongue of the Spirit)

2 Corthinians 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Sanctified/ so able to speak in the Spirit, to say from God the Father and our Lord Jesus. ( let there be no confusion in this tongue that speaks)

1 Corinthains 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

For the Christian forum, concerning "Having the Spirit of Christ". It might be necessary for further discussion or review. So I will posted this message of scripture in offering a solution. Please review previous posting, for support of your questions. and then we can go from there. I do ask anyone who has had the spirit of truth gifted to them, to help with this discussion.

May we all offer our thankful praise to the glory of God the Father, and Son Lord Jesus Christ.

Born of God

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as HE is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 "In this" the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.




The Perfect Man

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

The question is here, can you find unity of faith and the knowledge of Christ "within" that says:

1. Christ is the begotten Son of God, seed of David (1 John 4:9)

2. He is the Branch of Righteousness Promised(Jeremiah 33:15)

3. His body and blood purged my sins (Psalms 79:9) (Hebrews 1:3)(Hebrews 10:10)

4. We are dead to sin, being quicken together with Christ (Eph 2:5)(Col 3:3)


5. We are buried in Christ through baptism (Romans 6:4) (Col 2:12)

6. Walk in the spirit of righteousness (Romans 8:4)





1 John 3:21-22-23-24 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

For those who do not believe...

2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



It YOUR Choice

2 Peter 1:10-11 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:3-4-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


~in Christ