Can I run a 15/230v motor from a table saw on 15amp breaker in a garage?
It trips the breaker anytime I plug it in to any outlet in my garage.
If not, what should I do or how would I be able to do it?

Thanks

Well your garage outlets are not 230 (really 240) volts.
That saw motor is probably a 15 amp 120 volt motor which can be rewired to 7.5 amp 240 volts. Run a dedicated line using 12/2 wire and a double pole 15 amp breaker. Line can be hardwired to saw or you can use a 240V outlet and plug. You could also rewire saw to 120 V. Wiring diagram is probably inside the cover plate of wire connection to motor or at the switch.

No wiring diagram on motor or switch. All wires coming out of motor are black?
How would I determine which wires are which?
Thanks

Look closely on the motor wires. They may be fainty marked with designations such as T followed by a number.

Tel us every thing on the electrical nomenclature plate.

Sure,
HP 1.5 SPL
VOLTS 15/230V
Hz 60
RPM 3450
Amps 15 0/7.5

That should cover it...

Thanks

Oh to answer Keepitsimple,

Motor wires:
(3) black wires - 1 - T2, 1 - T4, 1 - T8
Then
(3) more black wires - 1 -T3, 1 - T8, the last one
No # just lettering.

VOLTS 15/230V is a typo or worn off number. 115/230

Kiss,
You just answered my next question.

Woody, is there a little cover plate that covers where the wires go into the motor?
What brand and model is this saw?

It's a box that encloses all the wires, including some kind of reset switch.
No diagrams anywhere.

no, the motor has 2 holes where 3 of the wires come out into
this box enclosure (about 2X3X2 inches).

Motor make and model number?

Wiring diagrams:
http://www.stearns.rexnord.com/pdf/Cat_902/26-27.pdf


You probably want dual voltage/thermal protection.

Depending on what you want to wire if for, you have to pick 115 or 230 or low or high nameplate voltage.

You also have to pick the shaft rotation. CW is when facing the shaft usually.

Motor make is ROCKWELL.
Model No. is 62-042, it is made by Lesson Elect. Corporation

I think I would rather wire it for 115 V.

Thanks again

You don't have 7 wires labeled T2, T3, T4, T5 and T8 and P1 and P2?

As your facing the shaft of the motor, which direction do you want it to run. CW or CCW?

Here is the config...

T2, T4, T8 & WH tied together.

T3, T5, & P2 tied together.

BL + BL Off SW. then P1 + WH Off SW

The shaft needs to rotate CCW as your'e facing it because of the blade on table saw.

You seem to be wired for 120 V, clockwise, but motors are sometimes wired no-conventionlly.

So, for the moment the motor should run. Backwards usually won't cause the saw to lock up.

Let's see what happens, if you do the following.

Do this VERY CAREFULLY!

Start the motor spinning by hand (Use a push stick) and then apply power once the blade is moving. Don't care which way you cause it to spin by hand.

Does it run?

I'm a little confused with your instructions.

The motor does run when powered up, so long as it's not attached to the belt, blade, etc. (and it rotates in a CCW direction and does not 'trip' the breaker at all).

I have plugged it several times w/out the belt or blade attached, so I know it works.

Well, that wasn't obvious in any of your posts. So, I guess you should have said I have a 115/230 motor which will start and rotate when not on my saw, but when I connect it to may saw the 15A breaker pops.

So, we have a 1.5 HP/15 A motor...

Running on 12 AWG and not too far from the panel. Something like under 25' or so?

A saw should not have very little load on it when it starts.

Ordinarily, I would say we have to figure out what size wire and CB and thermal characterisics are required for the breaker.

I'm basically heading here: New pool pump trips breaker? [Archive] - DoItYourself.com Community Forums (http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-346391.html)

Given, the new information, I'd like to have:
1. The distance from the breaker to the motor
2. The panel model
3. The breaker model that you used.

For now, make sure that the pulleys in the saw spin free and if you have a 20 AMP breaker to substitute in the 15 AMP place, do it.

Motors can draw as much as 5x their FLA current on start-up. A few things control tripping:

1. The time-trip curve of the breaker
2. The wire size
3. The breaker size

Depending on the duty-cycle and how often used, I might be inclined to use a single phase motor starter with overloads.

I'll see what I can find out. You may have to upgrade wire size, breaker size or re-wire for 230.

If you have 125 V in your shop then the FLA rating would increase by 125/115 or to at least 16.3 Amps.

I thought it was understood that the motor and saw would run simultaneously.

In either case, the panel is Square D, the breaker 15 AMP (unknown make), the wire is 14 AWG.

I am trying to run it less than 15 feet from panel.

The new question is: Should I still try to re-wire the motor or should I just add a 2P, 15AMP w/ 12AWG.

I can also add a 1P, 20AMP in place of the current 1P, 15AMP and just run the 12AWG wire to the current GFIC outlet?

Technicly, the wiring needs to support the FLA (Full Load Amps) of the motor. 15A @ 115 V is not the same as 120 or 125 that you probably have in your shop, so 12 AWG would be the right size wire at 120 V. At 115V, 14 AWG would be fine.

Since this is a motor on a dedicated circuit, and IF the breaker is of an instantaneous trip type, it can be up to 800% of the FLA and I believe 250% of the FLA if it's a delayed trip breaker.

So, if you have a 20 A breaker and your using 14 AWG wire and if the FLA was 15A you would be OK. But 120/115*15 is bigger than 15, thus 12 AWG is technically needed.

The NEC stipulates that only the motor be on the breaker for the above to be true.



When you wire for a higher voltage, the current becomes LESS not more.

240/230*7.5 =7.82 A; This is less than 15A, so 14 AWG is permissible.

If the breaker was 15 A, it would be 15/7.82 or 192% which is below 800% which is OK. So is 20A is 255% which is less than 800%, so your fine.

Your seeing a good reason for "motor starters" which have thermal overloads and/or electronically settable overloads. These don't respond to brief current spikes and the overcurrent protection can be tailored a bit more with fuses.

KISS,

This is what it appears you have or its replacement. Does not specify whether it is capacitor start/run or capacitor run. At this point I would guess that its capacitor run and has faulty capacitor. It is Lesson direct replacement for Delta motor number 62-042

That's where I was heading initially, but the motor runs not in the saw. Motors used in that application would be motor start cap.

Now that you mentioned it, there is still a possibility that the cap could be bad.

So, maybe he should try to turn the saw on after he gets the blade to move manually.

The best guess, I still think is a breaker that trips too fast for the starting current.

But, if the cap were leaky, then it would not be able to move the additional mass to start.

That's where I was heading initially, but the motor runs not in the saw. Motors used in that application would be motor start cap.

Now that you mentioned it, there is still a possibility that the cap could be bad.

So, maybe he should try to turn the saw on after he gets the blade to move manually.

The best guess, I still think is a breaker that trips too fast for the starting current.

But, if the cap were leaky, then it would not be able to move the additional mass to start.

I have been only half following the post. I guess I got the impression that the motor turns (probably not up to speed) but has no torque.

That motor is different. Mine looks the same but with an extra box attached to the motor (including the reset switch o the side) and a separate switch to turn on/off.

How would I know what voltage I have in the garage (no shop)?

I wouldn't mind adding a 2P, 15AMP breaker w/ 12AWG & run it dedicated outlet (not sure what kind exactly) for the table saw motor.
If this is what would work?

I was trying to run it from different locations in my garage including from the GFIC outlet which I found out is a 1P, 15AMP w/ 14AWG.

I either need to run it w/ bigger wire or I need to rewire the motor??

How about taking a pic of the inside of your breaker panel. Post using "Go advanced/manage attachments".

Suggest you go to this site. Ask for correct wiring connections for 120V.

http://www.leeson.com/leeson/contact.do?invoke=viewContact

Here are some pics. I can upload more if needed.
24351


24353

The breaker for garage is the lowest on left of the panel FYI.

Here are 2 more pics.

24354

24355

You have your wiring connections right there on the tag. Low voltage is 120V.

True, but it doesn't change the fact that it 'trips' my breaker on the panel each time I plug it to any outlet in my garage.

It doesn't 'trip' any breakers when I undo the belt, blade, etc. & run it direct to an outlet?

Any thoughts or ideas on what to do? Thanks

Sure does. Looks like we were chasing a wild goose.

I also assumed the garage had a sub-panel, which isn't the case either. The breaker likely isn't dedicated either.

There is a 20 A breaker on the right bottom. Can you TEMPORARILY move the garage to that breaker and try to run the motor in the saw? If the wire won't reach, then pigtail it.

No sub panel and no dedicated outlet.

If I do that, the wire is still 14AWG on the 1P, 15AMP breaker from panel to GFIC outlet by moving the garage to that breaker as you say.

Should I maybe 'swap' the 1P, 20AMP breaker (on the right bottom) with the 1P, 15AMP breaker (on the left bottom) instead?

And then plug the saw to the GFIC outlet which is still 14AWG, but now it will have the 1P, 20AMP breaker to power it.

I think there is 6 in one and a half dozen in the other solution. Temporarily moving a single wire seems like a whole lot easier than switching two breakers.

All I know is that it could be the capacitor on the motor, but your way to close to 15A for wiring at 120 V to not trip the breaker.

With a motor of that size, ultimately a separate dedicated 240 circuit, 12 AWG, 20 A, with a single phase motor starter is the way to go.

If you absolutely know that the motor is OK, then I'd say go the above route.

This is probably the cheapest electronic motor starter that I know of. PESWS-9V24AX-RM30 (http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.60809/.f)

Note: You set the FLA of the motor electronically. It's designed for 230 V and 8 AMPS and 1.5 HP.

I can't look at the catalog page from my tethered connection.

Usually, the motor starters from Square D that I've been used to are three phase, contain fuses for each phase, have electronic overload protection and have installed in it a 3 phase monitor with a restart delay. Expensive.

Here is the actual datasheet: http://www.weg.net/files/products/WEG-stock-automation-catalog-controls-enclosed-non-combination-starters-pesw-series-usa300-brochure-english.pdf

Kiss,

Not sure I want to spend that kind of cash just to run this motor.

I will try what was discussed earlier and let you know.

BTW Harold, I did get an answer to your suggestion about going to Leeson for wiring connections.

How do you determine which way or from which direction to know the CW or CCW rotation of the motor?

The thermal overload in the motor is probably fine.

Harold said the connections are on the motor, which they are. They are also on the document that I posted a while back. Just the direction is wrong. Need to use the high voltage CCW wiring.

I did say USUALLY it is determined when facing the motor shaft. It's not always true though. I can back out the right connections for 230 because I know the 115 connections. You do too on the motor nameplate.

This PDF is what I got from the Leeson Electric Rep.

Please take a look and help me to wire this motor properly so
I can use it in my garage?

24362[ATTACH]

Use Hi Volt C.W. on the diagram. They reference the rotation as Lead end (Where the wires come out).

L1 and L2 are Line #1 and Line #2 and they go to the switch. Note that P1 stays the same. That was probably your black wire.

T4 and T8 are tied together and go to the switch. (was T2,T4,T8)
The other side of the switch stays the same. (black?)

T2, T3 and T5 get joined together. i.e. P2 gets removed and replaced with T2

P2 is left over and it just gets capped.

So I shouldn't add a new 1P, 20AMP w/12AWG with a dedicated outlet to be able to run it properly?


BTW, I extended a cord to my laundry room where the 1P, 20AMP is located and the table saw motor didn't trip it...

I have the duplex outlet and wire, just need the breaker(cash is very tight now). Same amount of work here for either.

I know that at 80% of 125/115 the FLA will be 16.3 or so, but isn't that only at the start point?

So I shouldn't add a new 1P, 20AMP w/12AWG with a dedicated outlet to be able to run it properly?



Running a dedicated line would be preferred as above. 240 is preferred. Means less heat, less wear and tear.




BTW, I extended a cord to my laundry room where the 1P, 20AMP is located and the table saw motor didn't trip it...



Finally getting somewhere.




I have the duplex outlet and wire, just need the breaker(cash is very tight now). Same amount of work here for either.



Understand that. If that's a dedicated laundry circuit, you can pigtail the garage circuit and the laundry circuit until you get the $ for a breaker. I see where 240 V will cost you more up front.




I know that at 80% of 125/115 the FLA will be 16.3 or so, but isn't that only at the start point?



You mean 125/115 * 15 = 16.3 A; slightly higher voltage, slightly higher current thus wire size must be 12 AWG. The 16.3 A is at at 1.5 HP and 125 V and it's a guess.

It's not a continuous load (expected to be on for 3 hrs or more at a time) so the 80% stuff doesn't apply.

The higher the current, the higher the heat generated in the contacts of say the thermal switch the power switch, the plug/socket. P (watts) = I^2*R so it's more important to keep contact resistance low. There is a big difference between 15^2 and 7.5^2. R will likely be in the milliohm range.

That's why 240 makes more sense.