To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?

Their a very well known species of dogs They are fighter that why most people likes them To me ugly as a post but some don't see it that way I think we should get over it There here and to stay there is nothing you can do about it.

Unfortunately, you appear to be one of those people that if they don't like something, they want it exterminated. Are you German, by chance?

I know I'm wasting my time in trying to explain to you, but Pit Bulls are not the problem, it's their owners. I have owned a Pit Bull I rescued from a shelter. She had a very hard life and would have had every reason to be mean. But someone in her early development had raised her right and she didn't have a mean bone in her. Pit Bulls are popular dogs with gang bangers and they MAKE them mean. Pits are not born killers. I've seen very aggressive German Shepherds, Rotweillers and Dobermans. Should they be exterminated, too?

Pits have a bad reputation and sadly people like you promote it.

People have the right to walk any dog in a public place as long as they have it under control and do not let it attack or even threaten to attack other people innocently going about their business. If you are simply afraid of any dog, either live with it, or get over it. If the dogs are a real threat to people in general, the local authorities are not doing their job. Complain to them about the owners of the out of control dogs. If they don't listen, complain to your representatives and the news media.

Too often bureaucrats take the easy way out, banning this or that because of a handful of irresponsible users. They pass unenforceable laws the majority of people do not support. That erodes both our freedom and respect for the law.

Pit Bulls, unless trained to, are not aggressive toward people, but other dogs. Ban Pit Bulls, and those people wanting an aggressive dog will simply find another breed.

Hi We can debate about this subject for hours. We can blame the pit bull behavior on the owners all day long. But Pit Bull are often inbreed which makes them crazy. My cousin used to breed pit bulls and it in there nature too be mean. O'course u can train them to obey but there instincts make them unpredictable at times.

Hey I have a pit bull and she's the nicest dog ever but most of them are bad because their owners train them that way . It's not the dogs fault it's the trainers fault

People have the right to walk any dog in a public place as long as they have it under control and do not let it attack or even threaten to attack other people innocently going about their business.
I agree with this completely. However, I would like to see a law which would promote killing a dog who bites/attacks someone without a reason, as well as giving quite a big penalty (fine, or however it's called in english) to their owners. It would also make those who do not know enough about dogs, but want an "aggressive" (or at least, a dog with "aggressive" appearance) dog just because it's "cool", think twice before deciding to keep such a dog.

A year and a half ago I went to adopt a cute fuzzy puppy. As I walked the alley way I came across a dog that had been moved from shelter to shelter. This dog was originally found wandering the streets of Newark New Jersey. She had been moved from Newark to Tinton Falls and then too Lacey Township at the Pop Corn Zoo. She was emaciated. She had an enlarged heart and a heart murmur. She also had a prolapsed uterus. Here ears where scared from biting flies when she arrived at the first shelter. She had been used for breeding and when her body gave out they threw her out on the street. She was only 3 years old. It is sad what people can do to an animal. Along with all of that she had been abused by a man and had severe trust problems with men. She had been in the shelter system for well over a year. We went many times to visit her; she had many issues that we worked out before I took her home. Working with many people our dog has learned too trust humans again. Miss Piggy is by best friend and my life. As she a bounces threw our home, play with her toys, hangs from her rope in the back yard and licks the cats to death. I can smile and say I saved one. It is not the breed that is bad it the people that teach the dog to be aggressive.

So we have to corral the stupid people away from society and let the pit bulls rip them apart

Look, I KNOW owners behavior can affect a dogs behavior...

On the other side my wife's best friends daughter (follow that) was mauled by a pit bull. I KNOW it can happen with other breeds, I know it can be the fault of the owner training...

But you better believe I would not let a pit bull around my two year old son.

Call me an ignorant fool who wants to kill off a breed? Not really, but since we cannot stop stupid people from owning pit bulls then I'd just rather not have them around

:confused: I feel sorry for those of you who are so uneducated and narrow minded. I am a dog lover. I ahave 5 pet dogs and I am a breeder. I breed Australain Cattle Dogs. But my #1 breed is the pit bull. I don't breed them because of the cruel uneducated people of the world who would fight them or treat them like the enemy. I have a 5 yr old female red nose. She is the most loving, gentle dog I have ever owned or known. She is like a 2nd mother to my Cattle Dog litters. I have been looked down upon for having her in many ways. I have had to lie about her breed in order to rent a home. I have been turned away at groomers and I have people walk on the other side of the road when she passes by. It is all sad ignorance. I have a chiuauah who is meaner than she could ever think of being. A mean dog is created by cruelty and ignorance. They do not come into the world, a fresh, tiny puppy, with the urge to bite and mame. They are conditioned through long hours of tortureous training for long periods. Any dog can fight, certain people just think the pit bull looks better doing it. Perhaps someday, the ignorant of the world will focous their attention on another unfortunate breed and give the pit bull the chance they deserve to be the loving family companion they desire to be. I remember when it was the rottwieler who was the bad- killer on all of the ghetto shirts and posters. That in itself shows you what a fad it can be. Unfirtunatly, it is our loving pets who suffer. :(

** a pissed off chihuahua isn't going to rip out my throat! **


Friend's daughter was playing in HER FRONT YARD and did nothing to cause the attack.

Were the owners responsible. YES. They were found guilty and paid a lot of money. The girl has had operations and the scars are still there, but much less noticeable.

I'm not saying to eliminate the breed. But if I hurt your feelings because I cross the street... if you cannot get service at a business because of the breed... TOUGH. Suck it up. You chose the breed of a dog that is perceived as dangerous by many, including the scarred daughter of my friend.

** a pissed off chihuahua isn't going to rip out my throat! **

Though it is unfortunate that your young friend was attacked, it is the responsibility of the owner, not the dog. It was raised poorly. And as to my feeling of being turned away from establishments, it is their loss, not mine. They missed the opportunity to bathe a well behaved bath lovin' girl. And I feel sorry for their ignorance and small mindedness. My point was that due to the mentality of others, the breed suffers.

Ps. You should try to have the patience and temperament of the pit bull instead of yelling at people. You might be better heard. I am a pit bull owners educator at a local shelter. I educate people wishing to adopt on the true, loving nature of the animal. You catch more bees with honey. Have a nice day :D

You call me and others "Pitifully uneducated and narrow minded"... and then have the gall to tell me to be more even tempered? I've acknowledged that the owners are a big part of the problem.

My wife once told her friend " 'I'm sorry you're an ' is not an apology". The dog, not the owner, mauled my friend's daughter. The owner bears responsibility. The dog was still the source of the attack.

But don't think for one minute I'll be reserved where my child's safety is of concern. I'd rather err on the side of being narrow minded.

Almost laughable.

The american pit bull is not a recognized breed by the akc or ckc
So making statements that blame a non existent breed as being a pest is very short sighted.

Many dogs are aggressive and injure and kill people every year. The reasons are

1. bad socialization - puppys must experience strange people, kids and environments so they learn to look to their owners to respond aggressively or not. Many owners treat their dogs like their kids and believe that the dog will grow out of bad behaviour. The dog mimics its owner. Eachh state should mandate obedience licence for a state approved obedance school for all dog owners so the puppy to dog gets a good education on how to behave towards dogs, kids, animals and people. The dog should be apart of your life not you a part of his or hers!

2. bad choice of puppy - puppys have a social order they develop right after birth an alfa or dominate dog is normaly more aggressive and need more leadership from his or her owner to behave correctly. These dog are not suited for small children. Always consult with a registered breeder the needs of your family and your expectations for the dog.

3. breeding - buying a mixed breed can be very rewarding or not
Buying a purebred at least you can research your needs and pick a dog that's right for your family.

4. bad planing - any pet is a big resonciblity every family member must particpate in the puppys to adult dogs life. Many adults buy a dog as a means of trying to make theire kids take on responcibilites and fail to monitor and proved both kids and pet proper behavior.

5. feeding proper nutrition to you dog and teaching him or her that food is not to prevoke and aggression response - your kids should be able to reach into dogs mouth or around their dish and not get bit.

6. good dog behaviour - your dog lives with you and often has little contact with other dogs. They need to know how to act like a dog around other dogs in a non aggressive behavior.

7. your dog is not a babysitter - when buddy gets unhappy he can't talk about it he growls then bites. Young kids don't know when they go too far that's your job to supervise and make them take a timeout. Reinforce good behavior on your dog deal with bad behaviour swiftly . Always monitor your dog and your kids!!

In the end a dog is 50% environment and 50% genetics. Learning proper dog behavior will reduce your risks to injury. Making dog owners and their dogs train at an approved training center will eliminate the problem. The dog owner is the boss the dog must look to the owner to know how to respond!

If more people were able to think before they speak, as you did, we may not have 1/2 the problems we do in society. My pit bull and I thank you on behalf of all dogs getting the short end of the stick. I am a breeder, though not of pit bulls (due to the grave mistreatment which can occour). I breed Australian cattle dogs. They have a very strong personality and so I pay very cole attention to their "place" in the litter and they are placed in homes accordingly. The dominant ones are placed in working, herding homes, the submissives in single family, etc. and my litters are socialized as soon as possible with other dogs, cats, children and car rides. On occasion, I have the opportunity to see a puppy from my litter when it is older and the owner and I are always pleased. The same routine for breeding holds true for any dog, in general. I do recognize that all breeds have their special needs. For ex. The cattle dog is high energy, so left un attended in the back yard causes boardom and even mental problems from lack of contact and stimulous. As long as potetial owners are educated to the breeds needs and hold up to those needs, you will get a great animal.

I agree with this completely. However, I would like to see a law which would promote killing a dog who bites/attacks someone without a reason, as well as giving quite a big penalty (fine, or however it's called in english) to their owners. It would also make those who do not know enough about dogs, but want an "aggressive" (or at least, a dog with "aggressive" appearance) dog just because it's "cool", think twice before deciding to keep such a dog.

Well said. I agree. It's not the dogs. If people treat and handle the dogs right, there would be less fear of them, pitbulls or others. :cool:

It's been said numerous times, but being the "pit bull" owner that I am, I feel the urge to reply. Like the EDUCATED people said, not all pit bulls are vicious, not all maul anything they see sight in. It's a learned behavior. A pit bull puppy is no different from a lab puppy or a golden. People are so obsessed with what the media feeds them. So quick to jump at their opinions and follow what they are told like drones. Statistics show that pit bulls account for fewer bites than any other breed, GSD's, Chows, Labs (amongst many others) account more for bites. It's only the pit bulls that are more known because of the severity of it all. To top it off most arnt pure bred pit bulls, the pit bull gene is dominant therefore a mutt being 10% pit bull would look like a pit bull more than anything. Also, no thanks to the news that always seems to have to make known the "bad" news, alikes to a shooting on such side of town etc. My dogs would never ever think of harming anything. Like one person listed all the factors of what the causes of a "vicious" pit bull are; it varies, but it would be no different than any other breed. To annihilate the breed would just be absurd, it would only cause more problems. Genocide is right? Is that really fair? There's murders, rapings, & robberies that occur every day by numerous races of people but we'd rather spend our time banning a breed of dog, I don't think we would ban any races right? Case, in point to all this jibberish, what makes a pit bull more worthy of being abolished than any other breed of dog that bites? Just makes me think, if you were to see a growling GSD would you go "aww" ? Stop and think WHY law enforcement actually uses these dogs.

Own a properly bred pit bull and you'll realize what your missing out on :)

PS - All registries register the American Pit Bull Terrier except for the AKC (which registers Amstaff's). Pit bull is not a breed in it self.

Ehh I guess I'm done...

May be its time to register the breed by akc and set a standert for comfomation, apearance, stamina and behaviour. Instead of banning all bull terrior

All this breed crap is a bunch of hooey. Last Saturday I was at a dog festival and took advantage of it to get my Aster's Canine Good Citizen certification. I was very happy to see the first 2 dogs were ''nasty, vicious'' Dobermans.

jennapbt-you are correct, the "pit bull" is not a registered dog. The term "pit bull" comes from the origin of the old "sport" of pit fighting. The actual breed names are american stafforshire terrier and stafforshire bull terrior. Both of which are recognized breeds. And as the owner and lover the bull terrior, I agree with you in that they are a wonderful breed that does not get the recognition it deserves. They are a precious and often misrepresented and mistreated animal. I remember about 10-15 years ago I believe it was, the rottwieler (SP? ) and the doberman were the "bad to the bone" gangsters dog of choice with its face on all the t-shirts and in all the rap videos. Its just the misfortune of the amstaff's to be the current symbol of violence in the ghetto. You don't see any family oriented upstanding people with "vicious" pit's, just in the ghetto. My dog has never worn a lockpad and chain or run the tread mill with a racoon at the end. She is a diva, she has a leopard collar and just likes to have her butt scratched. That's my two cents on the subject...

I think certain breeds have a more aggressive streak than others but doesn't mean that they are bad dogs. And you can't generalize a breed because their owners foolishly trianed some of them to be that way. I use to be very scared by pit bulls because my brother was attacked by one when he was ten years old. My grandmothers neighbor's pitbull wasn't on a leash and it escaped from the neighbors house and ran into the yard and bit my brother in his leg. The neighbor had to pry the dog off him. Now what caused the dog to come into my grandmas'yard and bite my brother was unknown but we found out later that the neighbor admitted to training it as an attack dog. Well instead of training it to attack intruders on their property, it tried to attack almost anything, becaue a week after this happened to my brother, a woman was walking by with a baby stroller and the dog burst though a screened door and attacked the woman, thankfully the baby was okay, but the dog ended up having to be put down. Its very unfortunate because I have actually beeen around a few pitbulls that are actually very very sweet. But I also know the people who own them and they didn't train them to attack any one. You can't generalize a breed, are there breeds more dispositoned to be more aggressive? I think so but that doesn't just include pit bulls, German shepards, Rotties, and Dobermans also can be aggressive. If you can't take the responsibility to train a dog properly than you shouldn't own one. Unfortunately many think they can and end up with a dog that is a danger to humans and other dogs. Shame on the owner not shame on the dog or its breed, a dog learns behavior what its taught.

I agree that now days specific breeds can be frightening; however, I strongly feel that is the owners of these dogs and not the animals themselves that need to be punished. Different breeds have different temperaments, and pit bulls have a long history of being bred for dogfights. This means they are naturally more aggressive toward other dogs, but not to humans. Temperaments are also inherited, but can be changed in the proper environment... say to make pit bulls less aggressive toward another household pet. Hundreds of families have properly trained pit bulls, Dobermans, German Shepards, and Rottweilers that are friendly household pets. My point: breeds may be more aggressive by nature, but it is the owner's responsibility to care for and train their dogs.

I am responding to the quote of pit bulls are pests and should be banned. I have never owned a pit bull till my boyfriend brought one home by surprise, a 5 week old black and white girl and to be honest I didn't want anything to do with this dog and not for the fact it was a pit bull but for the fact it was a dog, I never owned a dog prior and now that I do, I love her to death, I have never seen a dog with more intelligence and personality and compassion for its owner, she has been in 2 training courses and picked up on the training extremely well. I am a strong believer that a dog will do what its trained to do and if a person is abusive to an animal then of course if you were the animal being beaten would you take it, that's is the questionto ask yourself, people believe these dogs have no feelings and to treat them like a tool and so don't blame the dog, blame its master cause if you give your dog the attention and love and correct discipline he or she needs, your dog will not be aggressive and this comes from personal experience, my dog has no aggressive bone in her body and people who didn't like pit bulls met her and they love her. She is very social with other dogs and all people and not saying that all of them are that way but then again that comes with any breed of dog, not all are social type. People are to blame for cruelty to these prro animals. Would you ban a tiger or a cougar from existence, well then why would you a pit bull, its is not a humans right to ban a dog, they have as much right as you and I to walk the earth god has given us. We have already destroyed enough, lets not add more to it.

Marauding pit bulls attack six
Boy, 10, in critical condition

Sunday, November 6, 2005; Posted: 9:30 p.m. EST (02:30 GMT)

CARY, Illinois (AP) -- A 10-year-old boy was in critical condition Sunday after three pit bulls escaped from a home and went on a rampage, attacking six people before police shot and killed dogs, authorities said.

No charges had been filed Sunday, but McHenry County Sheriff Keith Nygren said it was being investigated as a crime scene.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of Scott Sword, 41, who owned the dogs.

"We had music playing, and I heard this bizarre sound," said Debby Rivera, who lives three houses away. "I looked out the window, and I saw a young boy. The dogs were just jumping on him."

"The screams were horrible," she said. The dogs were "relentless, like they were possessed."

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

"The scene sprawled over a couple blocks; it was a very chaotic scene," said Lt. Michael Douglas of the Cary Fire Protection District.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them from attacking before police arrived and shot the animals.

Jim Malone said he and a neighbor tried to beat the dogs back with baseball bats. "He'd hit them, they'd run, and they'd come back," Malone said. "This went on for 15 minutes."

The boy who was attacked, Nick Foley, was hospitalized in critical condition Sunday. His friend Jordan Lamarre, also 10, was in serious condition. Nick's father was listed in good condition. Sword and two others were treated for injuries and released.

Last week, another 10-year-old boy in Colorado was mauled by a pack of pit bulls that attacked him in his own back yard. The boy was in critical condition after the attack, and the hospital said Sunday his family had requested no further information about his condition be released.

The attack in the Denver suburb of Aurora came two days after the City Council banned pit bulls and other "fighting dogs." Owners who already had the dogs could keep them if they paid a $200 annual license fee.

Again... I recognize that a stupid owner can make a loving dog a hateful beast.

I get it.

But I still don't care if an owner is offended if I cross to the other side of the street with my 2 year old.

And I still know the young woman whose face was ripped into by the pit bull when she did nothing to provoke the animal.

I'm not calling for them to be wiped off the face of the earth... but I surely don't want one next door to me when my son is outside.

Is this what you do all day, looking for anti-pit bull media? Relax, smoke a joint, or will that make you go crazy and kill someone too?

When an animal gets abused and mistreated that is what they have grown to understand and so its all they know how to do and I do understand that a person will be afraid to walk down the street if they notice a running free pit bull but you have to remember like my booboo said this yr it is fixated on pit bulls, next yr who knows what it will be, if you are concerned for a loose pit bull on the streets you should watch for any other dog loose on the streets too cause even though a dog may be small and look like it can do no damage to an adult, a child could just as easily have its face ripped off by a little dog and the throat has one major artery that with one bite by any dog one tooth is all it takes to puncture to the point and the person is helpless. I have never been chased by a big dog but I have been by small dogs and I have scars on my arm and scars on my chin from being bit by a mutt dog but I can't live my life being afraid to walk the streets. A parent should automatically fear a child on the streets in towns and not mostly for dogs, I would for people cause people are the most unpredictable animal of all. A dog big or small can do damage, its all depended on how they were brought up. Its sad though what people have done to these dogs or any other dogs who deserve a chance at a happy life.

A dog running the street is a dog the owner doesn't care much about. Best thing is to call animal control for your area. Even if it is a usually well cared for dog that managed to get loose, the sooner it is picked up and taken to a safe place, the more likely the owner is to get it back safely.

A few people still live where they can let their dog run free, but in most places it is irresponsible and illegal. Even if they don't attack people or other pets, loose dogs spread disease, scatter garbage, foul yards, harm lawns and gardens, and contribute to the slaughter of unwanted pets.

> LoveMyBooBooGirl

> got hobbies?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> is this what you do all day, looking for anti-pit bull media? Relax,
> smoke a joint, or will that make you go crazy and kill someone too?

Um... the article I copied was front page Yahoo news... not a lot of looking needed there.

As for smoking the joint, sorry, have a 2 year old I'm responsible for... that would be stupid, but then you know about that apparently?

... and as for killing someone, you've got to be kidding me. Almost funny how passionate the lovers of the breed can defend it to no end, but when someone is uncomfortable with the breed (again, I've NEVER said to kill 'em off), well... I'm just a raving homocidal lunatic in need of a joint and a hobby.

Wow. Almost funny.

Can't wait to send this to sarah. My friend who was mauled.

y'all watch out for them roaming packs of angry weiner dogs.

First off, "pit bull" is a slang term originated from the criminals that have marred their once honored reputation.
The correct term for this breed of dog would be Staffordshire Terrier or American Pit Bull Terrier. Calling them anything else just perpetuates the myth and stimga that uneducated people motivated by fear call them.
The Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier was bred into exsistance in the 19th century for the cruel sport of Bull Baiting. In Bull Baiting, a dog would attempt to grab onto a bull's nose in a ring before the slaughter and hold onto it until the bull collapsed. Any other bites the bull incurred were considered beneficial to the meat of bull, tenderizing it, as this happened right before the bull was taken to slaughter.
The characteristics that the Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier was bred for was the ability to never quit. They had to go into the bull pen and achieve their mission or die in the attempt. They were not bred for dog fighting, they were not bred for human-aggresive behavior. The desired characteristic was the overwhelming desire to please humans and NEVER QUIT. Human-aggressive behavior was immediately culled. It was not desired or tolerated. The dog handlers had to be able to control and trust the dog, in a pen with a 2,000 lbs beast with horns.
All of the recent media sensationalized press about the Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier is just a mirror of a fight I had to fight hard in the past, when everyone was anti-rottweiler. I have owned rotts all my life, in fact there is one sleeping at my feet right now, and would never stand for Breed Specific Legistation that Staffordshire/American Pit Bull Terrier owners must now live with.
It is unfair, just irresponsible parents leaving their children alone with strange dogs and then being surprised that a child could provoke a dog, as most odg attacks involve unsupervised children. It has happened in my past, with a wonderful chow I had growing up, a man came over with his four year old son to talk to my dad, we told him not to mess with our dogs food bowl, the child did and almost had his nose torn off. The parent did not surpervise the child, allowed him to be harmed and the ****ing dog gets the blame.
This whole argument is just same **** different day, people no longer want to be accountable for their actions, and it is easier to blame something that cannot speak for itself, a dog. If this Breed Specific Legislation continues, it will just be a new outlawed breed of dog every so often, until even Americans cannot pretend to enjoy the freedom of having a wondeful family pet. It is a crying shame that people choose to remain uninformed and irresponsible, and continue to allow the mutation and manipulation of such a treasured breed.

Majm - Well said *claps*

Thank you jennapbt, for your support.
This was my surprise, I recently had to do an arguementative paper for my english class and I, of course, chose the BSL as my topic.
I could not find a website that was an anti-apbt/amstaffy organization. I found opinion columns from newspapers, opinion articles, and misinformed bloggers but as hard as I looked for an organization that could be behind this movement, I could not find it.
When you look up "anti pit bull" on Google, pro apbt/amstaffy websites come up resoundingly pounding the opposition into defeat. The only places I have found "anti pit bull people" are on message boards/blogs. I try to comment as often as I can to try and make them see the ripple effect that they will have if they let misinformation and fear make their decisions for them(ie - loss of all rights).
I even tried "I hate pit bulls" on Google, and found nothing, no organization, no mad mothers against the vicious pit bull, NOTHING. More pro apbt/amstaffy websites but nothing anti besides the same blogs/message boards.
I sit and wonder about HOW IN THE WORLD the powers that be managed to pass such silly legislation if it is so obvious that the people are not behind it. I mean, I simply cannot understand it. All I see out here on the World Wide Web is love for these recently tainted creatures. I see no hate for them, only a peppering of closemindedness.
http://sf.metblogs.com/archives/2005/06/pit_bulls_are_b.phtml A misinformed SF blogger I tried to set straight with a three coment diatribe, the last three comments made by Kayla, in case you are interested in seeing my other points in this argument or helping me out with these people, they are scared and fear the unknown. It should pass with help from the pro apbt/amstaffy community. Flood them into believing!

I want to thank you for your well thought out post. I have tried to make the same point (remembering the anti-rott era myself). But those who don't want to hear logic won't hear of it. I have stopped posting on this entire forum for the most part due to the menality of a good majority of the members. I do pop in from time to time when I get an e-mail "posting alert". I wiswh there were more people like you.

Thank you LoveMyBooBooGirl for your support.
What weighs on me most is how these people form their opinions from news stories, the very news stories that are slanted to get that fear and prejudice reaction. I cannot understand how people do not realize that the media is toying with them. The graphic photographs and gory details are used to stir up closemindedness and fear.
Think about Iraq/Afghanistan, 2,000+ soldiers have died in the attempt to bring them freedom. We have seen oh, about 5 casket photographs. The powers that be have made it illegal to show photographs of the fallen soldiers. While I understand the family not wanting that pictured, I know that the media is complying with this illegal decree on purpose. If not, if we had seen 2,000+ casket photos, we would all be in Washington D.C. ripping Dubya from his royal throne.
Press on the American Pit Bull Terrier/Staffordshire Terrier is abused in the opposite way, graphic gory overload. Disfigured children, crying parents, etc. This is used to specifically garner a fear response from the general public, who trusts Tom Brokaw and won't question what Brian Williams is presenting. They will see, absorb, meet at the watercooler and give all American Pit Bull Terrier/Staffordshire Terrier owners bad looks and snide remarks. They will go to town meetings and push silly legislation on the sly of dog owners and rip rights away from everyone.
No one does any research anymore. There are no beloved muckrakers. There is no responsibility in the media. We are losing a fight for a damned good breed of dog, and I only fear my rotty is next.

I can not believe this post is still going and there are so many angry people, the pit bull is a vicious breed only if the human makes it that way. Any breed of dog can be made to be mean. This is only my opinion but if we took the individuals that are doing this and put them away for a very, very long time. Confiscated the belongings of such and individual and fined them more money then they would ever make, maybe this cruelty would stop. In most instances this crime is plea bargained down to a lesser offence and they get off with a small fine and they are back doing it in a few days. The laws need to be changed so this no longer happens, the dogs would be safer and no one would ever be bitten by a dog that was trained to fight.

M'kay. Help me make this thread end on something other than each side calling each other blind and ignorant... maybe we can find a middle??

This thread has made me understand that it is unfair to judge any dog, American Pit Bull Terrier or otherwise, by its "breed" alone.

I have a friend with a dalmatian, a vet no less, that is a bit testy. And I will never allow my 2 year old near my wife's grandmother's beloved chow... as it is old and set in its ways and doesn't tolerate a noisy, unpredictable child. It doesn't like children, but it "rescued" the grandmother when she broke her arm and fell down some stairs. It also nips at my son when he comes near. We keep the two apart.

My intention was mostly to say I don't feel comfortable with my naughty boy, who is still learning right from wrong, around an animal that has had less than great press. The 76 year old Texas woman who was just mauled and killed by a pack of roaming pit bulls is another example... front page news Yahoo.

Clearly this was, in major part, an owner issue. Any moron who lets any pack of dogs roam the streets, regardless of breed, is just asking for trouble. I would, however, like to feel safe mowing my lawn, as she was, when this attack occurred, if there were dogs of this breed or other labeled "aggressive" breeds in the neighborhood. Saying the owner is to blame isn't going to ease the devastation the family will feel with the loss of a mother and grandmother. Fining a bad owner will never compensate for the loss of a life. Banning a dog because of "breed," however, doesn't seem fair.

The fact that there seems to be an "owner issue" is in itself the issue.

So help me be comfortable with this. If the primary issue with the Staffordshire Terrier or Pit Bull Terrier is the owner, then how can I be comfortable when a new owner and dog moves in to my neighborhood? I don't know them. I don't know their animals. I know my son is loud and noisy sometimes, even when supervised.

If I cannot judge an owner an a moron or as a responsible owner on sight, then how can I be more comfortable with the animal? Again... this is in the context of having a 2 year old boy running around... always supervised, but still a bit unpredictable. Obviously if the owner lets the dogs run loose, he's an idiot that should be severely fined.

But the article I posted last month, again front page sensational Yahoo news, was about dogs that escaped from a house when a visiter came to the door for a fundraiser. These were not dogs running the alleys in packs.

So... what is the happy medium?

Let's ALL AGREE that it is unfair to call the "breed" dangerous outright and always. I'll give you that. Absolutely.

Everyone see that? The ignorant homicidal moron in need of a smoke (see previous comments) concedes that many of you owners and your beloved pets get a bad, bad rap.

And I'll concede that the title of this thread, which I didn't start, is therefore unfair.

I imagine more children die in backyard swimming pool accidents and driveway accidents each year than dog attacks.

But I'm getting mixed messages about how to handle my son around the dogs. If I'm showing ignorance by crossing the street when walking with my son when an unfamiliar owner approaches... AND I'm ignorant for letting my son approach a new dog... where's my happy middle?

The answer is to find a way to label stupid owners. Unfortunattely, I cannot tell one from another when walking my son on the bike trail.

I guess my last comment, and I'm sure we all hope this will be the last one, will be a request to not get angry with a parent who keeps his child away from your dog if I do not know you, by moving across the street or out of the way.

You might be a great owner and your dog might be the best animal that ever loved a human. I don't have the skills to know you from the Illinois dogs owner or the Texas dogs owner (that attacked this last month) when we meet on the trail. I cannot tell who is a terrible owner when I bring my son around for Halloween trick-or-treating to houses I'm less familiar with. I don't know on sight which dogs were bred well, fed well, cared for, etc...

So I'll not label your dog outright as dangerous... if you'll not call me an idiot (or "pitifully uneducated", "short sighted", "narrow minded", "hot headed" as I've already been called these) for keeping my son away from your dog by moving clearly out of your way until I know you and your dog better. Do you know my son well enough to trust him around your animal?

God, I hope this is middle ground.

I could not help but empathize with your dilema. I know where you are coming from as I have a one year old son. But I also own a Pit Bull... and a Beagle and a Treeing Walker Coonhound. I too do not let my son approach just any dog but as an animal behavorist, conduct around dogs is like second nature. So, here are some tips and pointers on what you should teach your son, how you can feel more comfortable and why.

The reason most children are hurt by dogs ( I do not use the word "attacked" because that is not what a dog is doing) is #1 they do not know how to behave around dogs. Most children pick at and pester and being that dogs do not speak english they can only communicate by first growling, then snarling and last resort, biting. If you have ever seen puppies play fight with each other they will bite at each others muzzles and pin one another. That is their way of establishing who is the boss. Now, children do not have muzzles so when a child is doing something to a dog that the dog does not approve of and wants that child to leave him/her alone or repremand the child the dog will go for the face. And a child's response is to fight back which in turn will usually trigger the "leader of the pack" response to pin the child. This is how these so called "attacks" happen. All in all, it is miscommunication between dog and human gone very bad.

So how can you keep your son safe? Well, if you are on the trail or out for a walk an overzealous (jackass) dog owner will usually have their dog off the leash letting them run amock. A responsible dog owner will have their dog on the leash and the dog should be walking right beside them. Here is where the leader of the pack also comes into play. Who is always out front? The "leader of the pack". I can almost guarantee you when the dog is out front taking the owner for a walk, they are not in complete control of their dog. Now, regardless of what breed the dog is, how big it is you should always ask to pet the dog first. Show the dog the back of your hand, allow him to sniff until the tail starts wagging and you are OK with him/her. And as far as being "attacked" in your front yard, highly unlikely, but if a dog were to ever come running at you do not run, do not fight, do not raise your arms and hands kicking and screaming. Ignore them, do not look them directly in the eye, turn away and stand straight. By doing this you are not challenging the dog but you are being passive aggressive, standing your ground but not putting up a fight.

In response to your Yahoo stats, I actually live outside of Denver, Colorado and the ten year old boy that was attacked, only one of the dogs belonged to the household and the others were wayward rescues from the genicide that was taking place. And no where in the article in the Denver paper did it mention the parents who should have been supervising their son that was in the yard with two unknown dogs.

The best thing anyone can do is educate themselves. Not everyone is going to agree that American Pitt Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Terriers are great dogs but ignorance is no better than fear.

Hey Kp2171


Last year my wife was robbed and beaten by two african american males at the local grocery market... yet to this day she has not said one bad thing about african american men. She even continues to shop at the same grocery market with african americans. She holds no grudges nor blames the assailants nor their parents. You may find this odd but she even walks on the same side of the street with them children in tow. I honestly find that amazing. Its unfortunate how you stereo type specific dogs for what they have done or how they were "used". And to post a "mauling" article on pitbulls was below low. Please name a dog or bird for that mater and I will list a medly of maulings for that specific breed.

If you stereo type dogs I could only imagine what other "justified" stereo types you hold. Please tell me - is ignorance bliss?

How sick can a person be, comparing an 'animal" to a race of people, this is the most racist comparison I have heard on this site.

While you said , she stills shows there and even plays with 'them. It is obvoius that a standing of racism is in your committ.

Dogs are anminals without the God given ability to be rational. They respond from breeding, they are breed to be aggressive animals.

Our city has outlawed them and I call on more people to petition their council people to do the same. In our city if you have one, it has to be licenced, and always chained with heavy chain ( leash) it can not merely be on a chain in a yard but a real pen and/or cage which has to be inspected and oked for use. Failure to do this will result in heavy fines.

As for African American people, there are good and bad, just like good and bad whites and indian and mexicans and so on.

The biggest crooks are not normally black but the white collar criminals.

Your comparison just make me... time for confession before I say something wrong

Just give it up already people. If you don't like a breed don't own one. Simple enough. No need to bash on something you don't understand.:)

How sick can a person be, comparing an 'animal" to a race of people, this is the most racist comparision I have heard on this site.



I agree, that was a really racist comparison! Dogs and people are not the same thing at all...

I was involved in a hold-up once, when I worked at a convenience store in high school. The two men who robbed us were of a different race than myself. I was also bit by a dog 2 years ago. The difference is, I don't hate everyone of that race, but I AM frightened of strange dogs now. As much as I like nice friendly dogs, a dog isn't a person, and if it's not well-trained you never know what it's going to do, it's unpredictable. But I don't judge people by those same standards... that's saying that all people of that race are wild animals or robbers or out to get you... ugh.

For the record, I'm not against pit bulls though, as long as they are controlled and well treated.

Pittbulls are so adorable with their cute wittle face. I don't find them scary at all. In fact if one attacked me I wouldn't notice cause Id be laughing my hiney off at the cute little dog trying to get rough. I agree with you chuck and orange. That all sounded racist to me. Why should it be amazing that someone can walk down the street with another race? It sounds like dude thinks they're something to be afraid of and we should all applaude him for this great feat of courage his wife has shown. Toon in next time to see what amazing feat she does next. Tickets go on sale now.

Sadly I live in an area of the country ( not that it may not be everywhere)
Where people fight dogs. They are trained and breed to kill each other.

They tie chains to the dogs and have them pull large truck tires around for building strength, they beat and abuse these dogs often. And when they are no good anymore they kill or abandon these dogs.

These are the often the poor quite "doggies" you may see wondering down the road.

They can tear and do serious damage to a person in minutes. Not just a bite, but even then if you are biten and the dog has not medical records, you can be in for some painful treatment or if the dog is caught the animal will be destroyed for testing.


*** they do basically the same thing with roosters also, but you don't see many of them wondering down the street

This post drives me crazy!
It is not the breed it is the people that breed them!!!!!!!

I have a KILLER PIT BULL in my house; her name is Miss Piggy, a rescue off the streets of Newark NJ. She spends her day in my home with our bunny Christopher Robbins and two cats Peek-a-Boo and Peatoo, running around the house loose and the most she has ever done is lick them to death. She also baby-sits the guinea pigs that come into my home that are abused abandoned and neglected by the human race.

Miss piggy when found was emaciated and dehydrated. When further examined by the vet she was found to have an enlarged heart and a heart murmur, the vet said it was from breeding her at an early age, the reason they feel she was left on the street to die was she also had a prolapsed uterus from over breeding, she did not ask for the life she was handed, it was us, the human race that does this to this breed. Any animal can be made to be mean. She sat in a NO-KILL shelter for two years before we adopted her. They are not KILLERS, the people that train them are.


CHAINING a dog with a heavy chain is cruel, if you have a dog that gets loose, build a kennel that will hold it or better yet give it to some one that can handle it. Miss Piggy stays in her home, in our home and is hand walked because we care and love her.

If you can not care for your dog the way you would want to be treated you should not have a dog or a cat, horse rat, hamster or anything else.

The people that train the pit bulls to be a fighter should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and not allowed to plea it down to a simple fine and walk a way with a mister meaner.

Only when we change the laws for people that do this, will the pit-bull be allowed to become the loving family member it is.



Why is tethering dogs inhumane?
Dogs are naturally social beings who thrive on interaction with human beings and other animals. A dog kept chained in one spot for hours, days, months, or even years suffers immense psychological damage. An otherwise friendly and docile dog, when kept continuously chained, becomes neurotic, unhappy, anxious, and often aggressive. In many cases, the necks of chained dogs become raw and covered with sores, the result of improperly fitted collars and the dogs' constant yanking and straining to escape confinement. Some chained dogs have collars embedded in their necks, the result of years of neglect at the end of a chain.


Please read the following link about chaining your dog

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm

Sadly I live in an area of the country ( not that it may not be everywhere)
where people fight dogs. They are trained and breed to kill each other.

They tie chains to the dogs and have them pull large truck tires around for building strenght, they beat and abuse these dogs often. and when they are no good anymore they kill or abandon these dogs.



OMG that's sick! Isn't it illegal to do that to the dogs? I'm sure it's illegal here, although if it does happen here at all, I don't think it's often... at least I've never heard of it. And that's something that would be on the local news for sure, if it was occurring. Cock-fights are illegal here too, as far as I know. And you don't ever see dogs wandering around in my city, unless they've gotten loose by mistake or something. Same thing with cats actually. The city has gone a bit overboard and there is a by-law saying that all animals, cats and dogs MUST be licensed and must not be allowed to run loose. If your animal (cat or dog) is picked up, you have to pay a $200 fine to get it out of the pound. The animal control officers even had a door to door campaign, where they'd come and knock on people's doors at random and ask if their pet was licensed. If not they would be told to license it within a week or else face fines! Anyway with all this freaky control I don't think people are being attacked by animals much.

Oh and when I got bit by the dog 2 years ago, that was on a farm, and it was a sheepdog. Actually I don't think I've ever seen a pit bull in real life, but I agree with crankiebabie they have cute faces. :)

Yes they are cute and I have even know a nice one. A fellow priest here in town had one. He had to get rid of it under the new city rules since he could not afford to build an approved pen and he would not be able to ever let it run loose around his property which is not fenced.

But believe me first there are few police in most rural areas and outside city limits there are no animal control at all. In the city there is one young boy who likes to use his dart gun to catch strays.

I got a dog off a sheep farm about a year ago. I had a neighbor who disliked my racially mixed marriage and perhaps my political views, so ( OK I can't prove it was him exactly) but someone tried to poison my dog twice and then finally shot him with a gun.

Well the sherff office did sind a patrol car over, he took some notes, did not take any evidence said a detective would be out in a week or two to investigate. Yep, about 3 months now and no one has came out, I was told they could not report it as a race crme because they did not want it to sound serious. Just shooting my dog was not that big of deal.

My dog was never out of its pen and not on a lesh.

So like many things in the rual area, the officers being paid 7 or 8 bucks a hour with no health inisurance benefits are not going to make their good ole buddies mad and stop them from just hurting some animals.

You can merely drive down a lot of the roads and see the roosters tied with leg ropes in rows and rows using old 55 gallon plactic containser cut in half for a house.

Of course criminal behavior is always there, in Alabama when I used to live there, we had a dry county ( no drinking) but if you went to the correct place and went into the back room , anything you wanted.
Everyone knew it was there, but no one wanted to do anything.

Laws are not worth anything unless enforced. I will change this slightly, take illegal immigrants, police do not even hold them when they find them, because no one want to do anything in our courts with them.

DUI, when the courts only slap their hands, are we really trying to stop it?

As with these laws

After reading my post again and also reading those in response I do see that it was not only a bad analogy but wrong altogether. My apologies to all offended. I never meant it to be racist or to have a racist overtone but it did. Again my apologies...
But to eliminate a specific breed altogether simply for how it was taught by its owner... That's sick outright and beyond ignorant. I could teach a labrador to attack other dogs as well - should they be tagged aggressive Fr_chuck? Lhapso ahpso's are notorious for disliking children but because the bite pales in comparison to the "pitbulls" are they spared from your outlaw? Nowhere in your post did you speak about how wrong the owners had been in teaching the dogs to be aggressive towards other dogs. Simply that they are bred to be aggressive (an owner made trait). Maybe its just a common mindset in your town that even if you teach the dog it should know better than to attack people.
As others have said leave it alone - if you do not like a specific breed then do not own one. If it makes you uncomfortable to walk on the same side of the street with a specific dog, bird or fish for that matter than so be it - no harm done.

Also Fr_Chuck rather than petitioning the outlawing of dogs spend more time petitioning for a stronger police force, along with better animal control and possibly a crack down on animal fights and cruelty in your town rather than being ignorant and acting like it's the dogs fault alone and banning them altogether. Turning a blind eye towards those that bred the animals to be aggressive will not solve the problem unless maybe YOU don't want to make anyone's good ole buddies mad because they are hurting some animals. Pathetic to say the least.

Another thing please change your name you are NOTHING close to a Friar.

Okay its nice that you come back to apologize but to jump on Fr chuck is really uncalled for :mad:

another thing please change your name you are NOTHING close to a Friar.

It stands for Father actually not Friar, and he's a priest, and "Father" is the correct title for a priest.

Father-friar what was I thinking:confused:

Anyhow his stature in life makes it OK? -- you got to be kidding me.

My apologies are for my ignorance in posting without thinking - I didn't do it to earn anyone's approval simply to acknowledge right from wrong.

Father Chucks supposed wisdom should allow greater insight in the matter yet it shows a complete lack of. Should I repent now?? PLEASE

To outlaw a breed of dog? Would our lord almighty allow this -- I truly think not! Lets do the math. If all the American states outlawed "pitbull" breeds what do you think would happen to those dogs found?? Exported to another country? I think not... only death awaits those dogs. And for what... fear breeds ignorance and ignorance can inflict anyone Fathers included.

Well I don't personally think pitbulls should be outlawed, but if someone else (such as Fr Chuck) thinks they should be, then that's his opinion. You have the right to disagree with him, but you shouldn't attack him personally for his beliefs.

Daz right you tell them. I don't think its all about the beliefs its all about someone getting on somebody who got on them. If anyone understands my language here. I just learned it today.

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?Animals have natural instincts that can either be nurtured or altered by humans. I'd rather live with a dozen four-legged 'family members' than be accosted in the street by an unleashed two-legged thief, murderer, rapist, child-abuser, terrorist, etc. (who I wish could be made to become extinct - but that's only my opinion). We have a policeman and his dogs live in our street, and also a few rottweilers, and pitbulls, who all get along better than their two-legged neighbors who constantly have something to complain or gripe about. None of these dogs ever bother our cats in the neighborhood either, even though most humans think that cats and dogs don't mix well. Those humans who train their dogs to be mean do it for profit or are just plain evil. And as Labman said, if pitbulls no longer exist, there will be other breeds that these humans will use as an extension of their own meaness. I would suggest you think again of what you should be scared of more.

You are right Orange

To clarify I am not attacking his beliefs regarding his stature. Ive only responded to his belief in outlawing a breed of dogs, and given his stature, more thought should be put into community development to prevent the mistreatment and abuse of dogs and roosters alike rather than condemning them. In a previous post I took the name Fr_Chuck simply as that a name therefor did not apply any credibility to it (its a forum for crying out loud). But seems as it may, he is a priest (still no credibility but ill play along) yet my opinion stands strong.

Good ole buddies... lol


The problem in Fr Chucks town is not stray dogs attacking hapless children or adults -- its no COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

This post drives me crazy!
It is not the breed it is the people that breed them!!!!!!!

I have a KILLER PIT BULL in my house; her name is Miss Piggy, a rescue off the streets of Newark NJ. She spends her day in my home with our bunny Christopher Robbins and two cats Peek-a-Boo and Peatoo, running around the house loose and the most she has ever done is lick them to death. She also baby-sits the guinea pigs that come into my home that are abused abandoned and neglected by the human race.

Miss piggy when found was emaciated and dehydrated. When further examined by the vet she was found to have an enlarged heart and a heart murmur, the vet said it was from breeding her at an early age, the reason they feel she was left on the street to die was she also had a prolapsed uterus from over breeding, she did not ask for the life she was handed, it was us, the human race that does this to this breed. Any animal can be made to be mean. She sat in a NO-KILL shelter for two years before we adopted her. They are not KILLERS, the people that train them are.


CHAINING a dog with a heavy chain is cruel, if you have a dog that gets loose, build a kennel that will hold it or better yet give it to some one that can handle it. Miss Piggy stays in her home, in our home and is hand walked because we care and love her.

If you can not care for your dog the way you would want to be treated you should not have a dog or a cat, horse rat, hamster or anything else.

The people that train the pit bulls to be a fighter should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and not allowed to plea it down to a simple fine and walk a way with a mister meaner.

Only when we change the laws for people that do this, will the pit-bull be allowed to become the loving family member it is.




Please read the following link about chaining your dog

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm





All of us real animal lovers know that it's the human beast that uses the poor animals as an extension of their inner weaknesses and hate, even to the hidden racists within them. A four-legged stray will love and protect you when treated right. A two-legged would rob you or kill you in your sleep - so guess who's going to be welcome in my home.

This might not be the appropriate thread for this post of mine, But, after reading your post, it made me so mad and sad at the same time. Humans, not animals are the worst beasts on this earth. They show no loyalty to a family as the normal animal instincts do, and it's the human factor that destroys everything that's good about them. In Georgia, we had a neighbor who had an albino boxer and he trained this dog to hate all people that were not caucasian. Was this animal initially born with this hatred? I don't think the human owner was born that way either, but was also trained to hate - through spoiled mother's milk filled with hatred and fear of anything different. Here we are, it's almost 2006, and humanity has not changed much, except instead of using not only other religions as a scapegoat for their failures, but also helpless animals to harm others due to the hatred and frustration within. I agree that the law enforcement agencies worldwide are not paid enough to protect their people - but that too is due to greedy and currupt humans, not animals. You, in your profession teach love and caring for your fellow-men, and it makes me sad that there are some that treat you and your family ill just because of their fear, stupidity and hate. When I encounter people like that, I wonder if their souls are even worth saving and laud you for your strength.
I'm getting off my soapbox now, and wishing you and yours a Happy New Year and many more in peace and tranquility.

Chery

okay, well I own a pure bred german sheperd who weighs 130 lbs. Anyone who thinks that german sheperds are vicouis or mean dont know anything about dogs. Ive been mauled by a pitt bull and once a golden retriever, but that doesnt keep me from loving dogs. I still love both kinds of dogs, but mostly german sheperds. I have grown up with german sheperds since I was born. My parents would lay me down on the floor on my belly when I was a newborn and our german sheperd back then watched over me. She was very nice and she never harmed anyone, except for the time she bit the cows ear off, since we lived on a farm. Now I have a 5 almost 6 year old german sheperd whos name is Esko. If you think hes overweight, hes not, hes actually a little bit underweight, since hes a pure bred, long haired german sheperds. I can do whatever I want with him. Ofcourse if strangers come on his property he barks and growls but he has never bitten anyone, or come close to it. When my dad tries to take his food away, he growls and shows his teeth, but thats just a game to him, otherwise he doesnt eat. Like others have said, it all depends on how you raise the dog(s). it doesnt matter what breed they are. I still love pit bulls and golden retrievers. I hate it when people call my dog a beast cause hes not.
He lets our neighbors kids do whatever they want to him, one time, one of the kids shoved their fingers up his nose, and started poking at his eyes, and all esko did was wiggle his nose and close his eyes, but that was it.

Did you know that the mosquitoes are responsible for killing more people on the earth than any other one thing Malaria is responsible for more than 1 million deaths a year. Malaria is carried by mosquitoes they also carry Dengue fever, West Nile. More people are killed each year by donkeys, than in plain crashes

I am sick of this thread, or at least the people that have their mind made up and disregard the facts showing banning Pit Bulls would only hurt the good owners, and do nothing to help the problem. There are people out there that will process new information and reach logical conclusions.

I decided the next time this thread came up, I would suggest a way for the good dog owners to be more persuasive. It will help with some people if you can say your mean, nasty, man eating Pit Bull is an AKC Certified Canine Citizen. It is an easy test, and the dog doesn't have to be registered. I took advantage of test session to have my old Lab certified. If I quit wasting so much time here, I could maybe do more visits to nursing homes and so forth, and the CGC might make it easier. Likely your local kennel club does testing at some of their events. For more information I even took time to dig up a specific link,
http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/program.cfm?SEARCH_BUTTON.X=15\&SEARCH_BUTTON.Y=0 I have already suggested this to lilfrye.

Any properly trained, socialized dog should be able to pass the test. I dislike, well maybe, hate and despise mean dogs of any breed, and more so the people that train them or even tolerate them. If you can't train your dog to pass the CGC test, you should at least spay/neuter it and complaint to the breeder. There is no excuse for breeding or owning aggressive dogs. Since it is difficult to sort out genetics and early socialization, the best thing is to spay/neuter all aggressive dogs. That security dogs need to be aggressive is another myth. It really upsets me when I have my dogs out in public and encounter people that are afraid of them.

I am sick of this thread, or at least the people that have their mind made up and disregard the facts showing banning Pit Bulls would only hurt the good owners, and do nothing to help the problem. There are people out there that will process new information and reach logical conclusions.

I decided the next time this thread came up, I would suggest a way for the good dog owners to be more persuasive. It will help with some people if you can say your mean, nasty, man eating Pit Bull is an AKC Certified Canine Citizen. It is an easy test, and the dog doesn't have to be registered. I took advantage of test session to have my old Lab certified. If I quit wasting so much time here, I could maybe do more visits to nursing homes and so forth, and the CGC might make it easier. Likely your local kennel club does testing at some of their events. For more information I even took time to dig up a specific link,
http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/program.cfm?SEARCH_BUTTON.X=15\&SEARCH_BUTTON.Y=0 I have already suggested this to lilfrye.

Any properly trained, socialized dog should be able to pass the test. I dislike, well maybe, hate and despise mean dogs of any breed, and more so the people that train them or even tolerate them. If you can't train your dog to pass the CGC test, you should at least spay/neuter it and complaint to the breeder. There is no excuse for breeding or owning aggressive dogs. Since it is difficult to sort out genetics and early socialization, the best thing is to spay/neuter all aggressive dogs. That security dogs need to be aggressive is another myth. It really upsets me when I have my dogs out in public and encounter people that are afraid of them.
I agree, security dogs are not trained to kill, but to protect, and if they have to drop a person down and hold them to do so, then so be it. I hate the humans that purposely train dogs to kill, and think that not only the dogs, but owners should be neutered, but that's only MY opinion and I don't think that they should be allowed to pass on their hatred and fear and insecurity to their children - maybe that would stop the vicious chain.

3 year old girl in Philly got attacked by a pit. She's in the hospital, should be OK. When the cops and SPCA showed up, the dog was wagging it's tail and obeying commands. They all said they were surpised by how friendly and obedient the dog was. Dog was put down today. Owner was fined for not lisencing the dog and no rabbie shots.

I hate tis post would you all please view this link. All dogs are capable of biting... (http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm) the only time the press covers a dog is if it is a Pit Breed that has done wrong.

This search took me less than 3 minutes to find copy and paste, for every pit breed attack there is another breed doing the same thing.

Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog

Los Angeles, Oct 9, 2000.

An uncle baby-sitting the newborn left the child on a bed unattended while he went to the kitchen to prepare a bottle for her. When he returned, he found the family's Pomeranian dog on the bed attacking the baby.

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/2000/California00.htm


Child mauled by huskies

Police: Girl, 2, dies after apparent dog mauling
5/6/2005, 2:01 p.m. ET
The Associated Press
WATERFORD TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — A 2-year-old girl appears to have been mauled to death Friday by her family's two Huskies, police said.
Police in this Oakland County community said the dogs were taken into the custody of animal control after the attack shortly before 9:30 a.m. EDT.
The child's mother and grandparents were in the house at the time, police said, and her mother called 911 after the child was found in the backyard. The parents were interviewed, police said, and had not been charged.
Additional information wasn't immediately available.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1398183/posts

SANFORD, Fla. -- Sanford police have launched a criminal investigation after a 7-year-old girl was mauled by a dog in her own back yard this weekend. Police said Harley Baumgartner suffered more than 240 puncture wounds, WESH NewsChannel 2 reported The German shepherd that attacked her has been quarantined by Seminole County's Animal Control. Police are crediting the quick action of an 84-year-old neighbor whose yelling got the dog to back off.
Dewey Reedy said he had just gone outside Sunday afternoon when he heard his neighbors' dogs barking "wildly."
"So I walked out there and this dog was shaking something on the ground. I thought it looked like a rag doll from where I was at. So, I said, 'Well I better walk on over and take a look.' I got over a bit closer to the fence, and by golly, I could tell it was a kid," Reedy said.
He said the child was covered in the blood. He said the dog finally stopped attacking from his and his neighbors' yelling, but he said it took several more yells to finally get the adults who where in the home to come out and help the child.
Investigators want to know why the parents left the child alone to see if there is evidence of neglect.
The girl is in fair condition at Arnold Palmer Hospital but she will need to have extensive plastic surgery.
http://www.wesh.com/news/4345160/detail.html


Death by dog—again

TWO OF THE MOST unpredictable creatures in the natural world are dogs and children. Ask any photographer. On Sunday, alas, that unpredictability erupted in tragedy when 4-year-old Robert Shafer of Orange County strayed too close to the family mutt. The Rottweiler-German shepherd mix, chained up inside a fenced area, killed the boy--the second death by dog hereabouts in recent days. Last month, three roaming pit bulls horribly mauled Dorothy Sullivan, 82, in her Spotsylvania County yard. So what are we to think about man's best friend now?
Despite a deluge of letters to the editor arguing otherwise, some breeds, including Rottweilers and pit bulls, command greater wariness than others. Humans developed specific breeds for specific purposes, and those bred to guard or fight will tend more toward belligerence. To repeat, people don't get dragged down by marauding Yorkies. Within a breed, of course, any individual animal can be placid or mean, but anyone with young children in the home should play the odds and choose a family pet from a breed whose original job was non-confrontational.
Also, dogs don't do well chained up. The Humane Society of the United States explains, "Dogs are naturally social beings who thrive on interaction with human beings and other animals. A dog kept chained in one spot for hours, days, months, or even years suffers immense psychological damage. An otherwise friendly and docile dog, when kept continuously chained, becomes neurotic, unhappy, anxious, and often aggressive." The U.S. Department of Agriculture adds, "Our experience in enforcing the Animal Welfare Act has led us to conclude that continuous confinement of dogs by a tether is inhumane."
A chained dog becomes hyper-territorial, and when a person invades its space, the dog, unable to flee, may, in classic fight-or-flight mode, attack. That could have occurred Sunday, when little Robert Shafer moved within range of "Chance," a pet thought gentle. Localities should seriously consider outlawing the tethering of dogs. After all, if chaining is both (1) cruel to the dog and (2) dangerous to human passersby, why countenance it?
Dogs will always play a big role in human society. As companions, helpers, herders, and protectors, they are first among beasts. But we allegedly smarter creatures must respect their breeding and their psychology. "Children and dogs," said Harry Truman, "are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads." The law should change to help them safely coexist.
Date published: 4/13/2005
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/042005/04132005/1731632

This thread is really getting to me too. Our Belgian Shepard, who we adopted at two years, did not like children under the age of 4. She would not attack them, but growl at them and it took me a while to finally figure out what happened. She had full papers and I wanted to bread her at least once. She needed the full credentialing to be able to sell the puppies or even register them. When she got her medical checkup - we noticed that she had a permanent back injury and therefore incapable of being bread. This angered me to no end, and not because of the potential financial gain, but because we found out the previous owners let their little kids use her as a pony! That was the reason of her not liking little kids and ruined her for life. She was a very protective dog though, in our family. Every time my mother tried to beat me in front of her (although I was already 19- and that's another story), she had my mother's arm in her mouth, but never broke skin. She did the same for my bothers. This dog was the sweetest natured one of the larger breeds I had and was really sorry when she died. After her, I stuck to poodles, and bread some beautiful appricots.
This is just another story of what humans make their poor animals go through - a dog is not a damn pony - and not something to train to dislike certain races or train for dog-fights.
I really am sorry for the children that are mauled by dogs, but people must also understand that dogs are the type that have to accept their surrounding as part of their 'family' and non-threatening. Until this happens, the children must always be supervised every second when around these dogs. Once a dog accepts you into it's life, they will even give their life for you - I can't always say the same for humans. Period!

There is also a myth about cats - they do not harm newborns. Cats have to investigate everything that enters their territory (just as dogs) and familiarize themselves with the smell - therefore eliminating stress and accepting into 'their' household. So, I still maintain, that it's the humans that are naïve and paranoid and need to be more educated.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_1_23.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_26.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)If animals were so dangerous, why do they do more therapeutical benefit in homes for the elderly than those obligatory visits from humans that have already written them off??

One of the reasons for keeping an eye on children and dogs is to protect the dog from the child. There is a limit to the abuse you can count on the dog taking. Children need to be supervised.

Of course we want to eliminate as many hazards as possible. Even simple things like eliminating draw strings on children's clothing has saved lives. Yes we need to eliminate vicious dogs. Banning Pit Bulls is not an effective step. I also would hate to see a ban on tethering dogs just because it is often misused.

There is an excellent article in the current New Yorker magazine (2/6/06, p.38) called "Troublemakers, What pit bulls can teach us about profiling," by Malcolm Gladwell. It is about stereotyping -- which is what the anti-pit bull posters are doing.

Mr. Gladwell presents factual information on dog violence such as statistics on the number of deaths various types of dogs have been responsible for, as well as the results of some other associated studies. You really should read this very thoughtful and well-researched article, but I will try to summarize its findings:

Many different breeds of dogs have been involved in fatal attacks. What most of the attacks had in common was not type of breed, but type of owner, and the type of care (or lack of care) the dog received. The dogs were often chained, hungry, ill-trained, neglected; and their owners often had a history of violence. Some years Rotweillers killed more people, some years Dobermanns -- mostly the numbers seemed to reflect what breed was currently popular with those people who wanted to own a mean dog. Also significant were gender and neutering -- male dogs and unneutered dogs tended to be more dangerous. But in short, mean violent people raise mean violent dogs -- of almost any breed, even Pomeranians.

Hi there to all who read this. Seeings how I am "the light" let me shed a little bit of light on this subject. I, myself was terrified of all big dogs for most of my life. It wasn't until I moved in with someone who owned a Pitbull that I found myself friendly with any big dog. Because I, like a lot of you, no offense, ignorant, people didn't understand how great of creatures big dogs can be. All dogs have a possibility and the tendenacies to be "mean" but what detemines how the dog will be, is the way that it is raised. And there are some people who can not handle raising pitbulls, or any other big dog for that matter. They are very intellegant creatures, that are incredably loveable and affectionate when they are trained and treated right. Unfortunately, there are people who have abused the power of a pitbull for there own personal benefit. You can't blame the behaviors of people with pits on the pitbulls themselves, It's not there fault. And it also unforunate that the same people also "in-breed" them which does cause them to be unstable, but once again you can't blame that on the dog. The actions to stop "aggressive dog behavior" needs to be addressed towards the people who are causing the aggression. Every living thing has the ability to be "aggressive" if it finds that it is nessassary to protect itself and there's. I am now the owner of a 9 month old female pitbull, and I won't lie, she is sometimes a pain in the ***, but what dog isn't. But I knew what I was getting myself into from the get go. Because the are so smart they require extra attention and extra training, it is the people who don't know this and who can't handle it that make these dogs the way there are. I love my little mamma with all my heart because she shows me nothing but love, and only once in these 9 months have I ever seen her even bark aggressively at anyone, and that was simply because this male was threatening my well being. She loves everyone and everyone who meets her loves her, even those, who like yourselves, think that pitbulls are the enemy because once they actually get to interact with her they realize what a great dog she is. So the next time you see a pit, take a second look, and you too just might see how great of a dog they are. But I will also say in the same breath do be careful to not make them feel threaten, let them smell and get fimilar with just like any other dog. It is because of all the close minded people in the world that these great dogs are being banned from so many places, and people like me are forced to move becase other people are simply "scared". I hope that I have helped to open some of your minds to the reality of "aggressive dogs" in general not just pits. And always remember: "Ignorance is bliss, but bliss means nothing without knowledge"

It is common knowledge to everyone except dog fanatics that Pit Bulls were bred to be aggressive and still retain that trait. As for children being a threat to dogs, I never heard of a child ripping a dog's face off with his teeth. Have you? The woman who was recently forced to have a facial transplant is yet another victim. The lady killed in the hallway of her own apartment building some years ago was killed by too large pit bulls. On the Internet, there are sites which tell us which breeds are more prone to bite. Even the Dog Whisperer on the Discovery Channel who is an expert on dogs refers to pit bulls as having a tendency to be very aggressive.

You want to talk about pests? Why don't you talk about the humans:
http://www.realpitbull.com/abuse.html
We're worst than pests, we're monsters, pit bulls are animals and must be taken care of as such, they may bite some one, but we have done much much worse, what they do in instinct we do in cruelty, instead of being so pompous and ignorant and cruel to think that you have the right to say that they should be bred out of existence you should take into account who is the real victim in this tragic reality. You fear what you do not understand, but don't you ever dare to try and think that you have the right to say that an entire species should be eradicated, congratulations, you've adapted Hitler's mindset on Jews



Edit: I'm sorry if I come on rather strong, but I feel very strongly against such horrible treatment of these animals

You want to talk about pests? Why don't you talk about the humans:
http://www.realpitbull.com/abuse.html
We're worst than pests, we're monsters, pit bulls are animals and must be taken care of as such, they may bite some one, but we have done much much worse, what they do in instinct we do in cruelty, instead of being so pompous and ignorant and cruel to think that you have the right to say that they should be bred out of existance you should take into account who is the real victim in this tragic reality. You fear what you do not understand, but don't you ever dare to try and think that you have the right to say that an entire species should be eradicated, congratulations, you've adapted Hitler's mindset on Jews



edit: I'm sorry if I come on rather strong, but I feel very strongly against such horrible treatment of these animals

No need to be sorry since you are entitled to your opinion. : )
In any case, I am NOT advocating the infliction of physical or emotional pain on these animals. Where you get this concept I don't know. Neither am I attributing evil to animals. Furthermore, Pit Bulls are not a species. They are simply a variety which occurs within a species due to human manipulation via breeding. So it does NOT involve the extinction of a species. It involves the changing of a variety.

Yes, I agree that humans can be and have been monsters.
What you fail to mention is that such monstrous acts are condemned by society and considered punishable by imprisonment or execution.
As a matter of fact, the Bible tells us that humans who insist on behaving that way will eventually be removed from the earth. Read Revelations.

As for the Jews, there was absolutely no moral justification for what the Nazis did and it shouldn't be placed on the same level as the refinement of a
variety of dog in order to make it a better animal in relation to human society. Why you as a pet owner would want to keep these animals in the form that they exist right now speaks volumes about your values.


Excuse me if I came on a bit strong but when I see a young child's face entirely ripped off, or a woman being savagely bitten on the breasts it kind of bothers me to see you say these are just minor inconveniences. I strongly doubt that you would be singing the same tongue-in-cheek-pro-Pit Bull song if it had been your face ripped off or if it had been your son who was killed or your wife, sister, or mother whose breasts had been bitten simply because the dog was bred to be a bit too aggressive.

I have been mauled by a dog before, granted it was a Chow, not a pitbull, but same concept. Never once did I use the term "minor inconveniences" in my post, and granted there are some vicious attacks, but frankly these are animals, not sentient creatures like ourselves, we do cruel acts to these creatures with little regard for them, whereas their attacks are based off a combination of instincts and memory of past experiences, sure some pits are just bad, some weird chemical set up in their brain or something that makes them nastier than usual, but you can not use the minority to judge the breed.

The application to the mindset of Hitler was in relation the idea that Hitler had no justification for mass genicide, neither would someone who wants to exterminate the entire species simply because they are afraid of the minority that is nastier than usuall.

For a man who claims to know dogs it seems rather strange that you should insist on calling pit bulls a species. In any case, my suggestion is the reduction of excessive aggressiveness through breeding. What was bred in can be bred out as has been proven with other formerly excessively aggressive dog breeds. Why you would find that an inconvenience or offensive is way beyond me. On the other hand, there are some dog owners who find this breed's intimidation factor useful. But there are other breeds which can do the job much more efficiently and without the unnecessary danger of the dog's losing control due to INBRED aggressive tendencies and ripping someone's face right off.

No, you don't say right out that such incidents are a minor inconvenience.
Yet you generally come across as pro dog and anti human.
It is not essential for you to be anti human in order to be pro dog.
Yet you repeatedly keep making the dog/human comparison as if to justify
Dangerous dog behavior. This reminds me of a recent event that took place locally at a Farmer's Market Show where a cougar got lose and clamped its jaws on a child's neck.
All you could hear the cougar's owner say as they tried to help the child was was--"Don't harm my cougar!" In short, the cougar's life was to him more valuable than this kid's. Rather weird don't you think?

You say that the minority of Pit Bulls are responsible for the mangling, disfigurements and deaths and that because it is the minority no effort should be made to change this breed's aggressive tendencies? I say that if it will save one child's life or save one human from the agony of disfigurement, then it is worth the effort. If indeed this aggressive tendency is of no use to you, why are you so against it being bred out??


BTW

Dogs are sentient.



Merriam Webster's Dictionary

Main Entry: sen·tient
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(e-)&nt, 'sen-te-&nt
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling
- sen·tient·ly adverb

If indeed this aggressive tendency is of no use to you, why are you so against it being bred out??

Do you honestly think it's possible to breed out a specefic trait? You would have to eradicate the species if you wanted to change an entire breed's disposition, furthermore you mentioned breeding out the entire species, not the trait in the first place

To me the pit bulls are pests.. . They should be bred out of existence.

I'm not pro-dog or pro-human, you have your perception of my character wrong, when there's an animal attacking a human child, well it may have perfect justification such as the child getting in the dog's personal space, but in my mind the child must be saved by whatever means possible, preferably with no harm to the dog, but I'm not above harming an animal to save a human. However I AM against attacking the entire breed when the majority of the breed isn't bad natured... that's like attacking Russia because we know that they could be an aggressor nation and have the power to inflict harm, even though the majority of the people have no designs against the US.

My apologies for phrasing it in that manner.
I am not against the breed itself. I am against the strong aggressive tendencies. Yes, I believe that aggression can be bred out because it has been done to other aggressive dog breeds. In fact, they look more or less the same as they did when they were aggressive. The only difference is that now they are safer pets. So since it is possible, and this tendency is causing horrendous tragedies, why not do it? Better yet, why are you against it and describing it as an attack? I don't think that because most are well behaved we should keep playing Russian Roulette with our children by assuming that the Pit Bull we give him as a pet belongs to the docile majority you keep mentioning.

BTW
If Pit Bulls were a species they would either be unable to breed with other dogs or else their offspring would suffer from degrees of sterility as happens when you mix a donkey with a horse and get a mule. But such is not the case since you can cross a pit bull with any of the other varieties of dogs.

Ah yes I'm aware of my earlier misnomer, calling them a species, luckily we're working on evolution in my bio class so I got a nice little reminder about that, my apologies for the misnomer. And to clear things up if you think that you can get rid of aggressive tendencies through breeding without killing any of the existing animals or changing the appearance of the breed, then by all means do what you will, I have no problems with that, do you have any information about this having done in the past? I just find it hard to believe that that is possible.

Hi,
The previous answers are very good and interesting to read.
I do agree with laws banning Pit Bulls, as I have said earlier in this thread. The reason is the Owners; not the dogs. Most owners need to be trained, so they can know what they are up against; but the Owners will not seek out help, guidance, classes, or even buy a Video showing how to train their dogs. Pitt Bulls are not the only aggressive breed. There are Chihuahuas, Dobermans, German Shepards, some Terriors, and others that are just as aggressive. But, the Pitt Bull seems to have gotten the most media coverage.

I thought it was interesting that in our local area, about 200 miles from where I live, is a community (small town) that is soon to adopt a "community" ordinance; saying it is against the law for any family with children under the age of 8 yrs old, to have a dog!! This particular community has had a significant number of dog bites to children, being treated by a Doctor.

If you wish to view a Great Dog show on TV, it's on NGEO channel (National Geographic), on Friday nights, and some other days sometimes; called the Dog Whisperer, and features Ceaser Millan, based in CA, and has now written a book, and also has a Video about aggressive dogs. He is a Dog Behaviorist, and Trains People! This points out the necessity of "people training", to know what to do with aggressive dogs, of which there are many pure breeds, as well as mixed breeds.
Best wishes.

Ah yes I'm aware of my earlier misnomer, calling them a species, luckily we're working on evolution in my bio class so I got a nice little reminder about that, my apologies for the misnomer. and to clear things up if you think that you can get rid of aggressive tendencies through breeding without killing any of the existing animals or changing the appearance of the breed, then by all means do what you will, I have no problems with that, do you have any information about this having done in the past? I just find it hard to believe that that is possible.

There was a documentary given on Comcast Cable Service here in the USA which compared the different breeds of dogs and mentioned how some previously aggressive breeds had been toned down via interbreeding. I could easily get this info for you on from the net if my computer were functioning properly but it is barely functioning at all. All I get is the following message whenever I try to surf to more than one site.

Action canceled
Internet Explorer was unable to link to the Web page you requested. The page might be temporarily unavailable


So I'll see if they still have the documentary available on Comcast and if so will post the breeds that they mentioned.

I have a Pitt that I adopted at a local shelter.. she was only 4 months old when I got her, and normally, Pitts are not adopted out there. She was within 12 hours of being euthanized... Luckily, I had just happened to go that day, to take some bags of dog & cat food to donate... anyway, "Alexis" is now 7 yrs old, and she has been nothing but a joy to me and my family. She even raised 2 kittens, along with her 3 pups a few years ago. (She has since been neutered). I wouldn't take anything for this dog, and she has never been aggressive towards anyone. I get very angry when people make remarks like "I can't believe you'd have a Pitt Bull in your house" , or "when she turns on you, you'll regret having her", etc...

I don't believe that Pitts are the right dog for just anyone.. a Pitt owner needs to have common sense, as well as "dog" sense, but to imply that these beautiful, intelligent dogs should just be exterminated, is totally ignorant.

Alexis is a member of our family, and she is one of the friendliest, gentle dogs, that I have ever owned

I feel really sorry for you that you are so narrow minded. Please do everyone a favor and read up on this breed. I cannot stand people like you and I usually wouldn't even take the time to talk to someone like you, but I feel it is necessary to teach about this breed. I work at a petstore and a vet and am around every type of dog breed every day. The pitbull terrier is one of the friendliest and smartest dogs out there. It would be a shame to get rid of this breed (though it isn't possible) because they bring so much joy to peoples lives. There are therapy and canine good citizen pitbulls that are very popular and have hundreds of cases where a pitbull has saved someone's life! Just because humans have made SOME pitbulls aggressive, does not mean that they all aggressive! Continuously breeding is the reason for such aggression because ignorant people are always trying to make them bigger and meaner for security reasons. Also half the supposed pitbull attacks aren't even pitbulls. They are labeled pitbulls if they resembled them or are mixed. If the news sees that it is a lab-pit mix, they say it's a pit! I read a story earlier today actually that made me sick to my stomach. A boy was being attacked by a rottweiler and a pitbull went after the dog, saving the boys life and had the dog (twice his size) pinned to the ground until help arrived. The news didn't even acknowledge that the rescuer was a pitbull, but there was a picture and clearly, that was the breed. No one knows unless they have experienced living with a pitbull or being around them. I agree that there no reason that anyone should ever get attacked by ANY DOG, but the reason for it is humans and their breeding! And your comment about getting rid of the breed. It is impossible. There are too many across the world, and mixed in almost every dog you see at the shelter. People love them too much and I don't see them ever going anywhere but up. One day they will be back at the top of breeds like it used to be when people like you stop being so ignorant!

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?


There are no bad dogs. Just bad owners.

This post is so old and I wish it had stayed buried. I am tired of looking at it and a few others like it.


To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?

The pit bull problem is a people problem. End of story. I think the people who refuse to learn about what it takes to be a responsible owner should be bred out of existence.

So, Starman, what kind of alleys are you walking down and why are you purposefully putting yourself in harm's way? Doesn't sound like you are making smart choices in where you choose to wander. Maybe you should be more careful about what part of town you hang out in. Come by my place. I will introduce you to a pitbull that has been properly trained. The black flies hanging around my property will be the only things you have to worry about biting you.:cool:

Pit Bulls are just like any other dog. If they are raised in a loving home then they are loving pets. My son owns two. I do fear them though.. . of being licked to death. :P

Some of it is how people train the dogs. Where we are here in New Zealand these are gang related dog and we also have a gang named sort of after them. But that's not the point, if people trained them all right then they wouldn't be such a problem. Most attacks that we have had here were by un-trained fighting guard Pit-bulls and some of the illegal fighting ring dogs. If the dog does sometimes bite mozzel it in public that should be the owners responsibility.

Also Cross breeds of these dogs are or have been more likely to attack people than a pure breed pit bull.

If this helped rate it

GREAT COMMENT bfinstad! Yes I agree 100%. I have two wonderful pitbulls that have been nothing but a joy to our lives. The neighborhood kids play with LOVE & SHEMP without one stinkin' inch of fear about our dogs. I and many have found them to be the smartest of lovable doggies I have had the pleasure to own. My husband and I LOVE our pitbulls like our own kids, and it shows. Like bfinstad said, they have been known more than enough times to SAVE LIVES. But you boneheads allow yourselves to be so brainwashed by the media. Of course they don't tell you the good stories about pits, get a clue! Cocker Spaniels have been known at times to have the highest biting rate according to statistics, but I'm sure you "people" wouldn't suggest reforming or getting rid of them as you shouldn't they are wonderful dogs. But that shouldn't be a wish for any other breed either. I am so sick and tired of these idiots that haven't a clue about anything. Rubypitbull, I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with pit bulls but remember if their vicious it's the owners you have to stay away from, and it's them that you have a bone to pick with! Starman, and anyone else that would say something so stupid as to eliminate pitbulls are just (and yes I will say it) Ignorant media brainwashed fools. Keep listening to the media and it will get you into trouble. Why don't you all develop a mind of your own? People have been mauled by other breeds as well, hello?

You don't know it yet but, you anti-pitbull goofs true wish is to eliminate the people that make them that way. What is so hard to understand about that? Like bfinstad stated and others, in so many words "hey idiot it's the owner that either loves them or MAKES them into vicious dogs which could be done to ANY breed. GET A PIECE OF BRAIN people!

Starman

starman? It is SO tragic to hear stories like these about people getting ripped apart and I'm sorry about that, truly. But we all know that it just isn't pitbulls themselves that are capable and attack people. ANY kind of dog is capable of this as Pitbulls are capable of being great dogs.

Also, PLEASE DON'T PUT YOUR NAME TO THE BIBLE. Your attitude is an embarrassment to those of us who read the Bible and do our best to live by it. The Bible is a book of love, truth, mercy, grace, and justice, CHRIST. It is not to be used by people like you to make self righteous comments about others values, that is a whole other subject. I am a Christian and love pitbulls. I have strong values, thank you. Why don't you learn about love and grace instead of pompously looking down your nose at people because of the type of dog they choose! Read your Bible for yourself! It's not about being a spiritual snob it's about the love of God. God made animals, therefore, God made dogs, therefore God made pitbulls. Before you wag your pompous tongue, whether they are a breed, whether they were bred to fight, they are here by God's allowance. Thank you very much.

I have a wondeful GOD GIVEN pit-bull myself and he would never hurt anyone. We have neighborhood children that love him, and they want to pet him and play with him. They can and they do with no problems except getting licked. He loves everyone and brings so much joy to people. Maybe that's something you haven't discovered yet. Oh, that's in the Bible too. JOY. Please stop embarrassing the name of Christ and His real followers by yourself righteous Pharisee attitude. Learn to LOVE. Read the book of John, see what is required of God above all things. Grace and Mercy.

GOD LOVES PIT-BULLS

Rubypitbull, i'm sorry you've had a bad experience with pit bulls but remember if their vicious it's the owners you have to stay away from, and it's them that you have a bone to pick with!
Sugar, although I agree 100% with everything else you said, I am pulling out the above quote from your post. PLEASE, reread what I wrote back in March. I NEVER mentioned a bad experience with Pitbulls. I do rescue & foster work, rehabbing rescued dogs for new homes, and I have a rescued Pit myself who has been trained properly. What I am tired of is this thread. It is so old that hairs are growing on it! Starman posted this 4 years ago! Yet, people keep pulling it up. Since Starman's original post, there have been numerous other threads regarding the same issue in other forums. I have been vocal on at least one other occasion in which a poster really got my blood boiling, as you have experienced yourself here with Starman's post. I am very tired of reading things written by people like Starman, who have not bothered to learn anything about the breed but insist on condemning it. To remain ignorant of anything is a choice. If a person chooses not to fully inform themselves of a situation, my belief is that they should not enter into a discussion about it.

Sugar, although I agree 100% with everything else you said, I am pulling out the above quote from your post. PLEASE, reread what I wrote back in March. I NEVER mentioned a bad experience with Pitbulls. I do rescue & foster work, rehabbing rescued dogs for new homes, and I have a rescued Pit myself who has been trained properly. What I am tired of is this thread. It is so old that hairs are growing on it! Starman posted this 4 years ago! Yet, people keep pulling it up. Since Starman's original post, there have been numerous other threads regarding the same issue in other forums. I have been vocal on at least one other occasion in which a poster really got my blood boiling, as you have experienced yourself here with Starman's post. I am very tired of reading things written by people like Starman, who have not bothered to learn anything about the breed but insist on condemning it. To remain ignorant of anything is a choice. If a person chooses not to fully inform themselves of a situation, my belief is that they should not enter into a discussion about it.


My expressions were based on a child who had recently gotten his face ripped off.
If indeed I offended pitt bull owners by reacting too strongly to thepermanent mangling, then I apologize.

Here is a pro Pitt Bull site:

Pet Pit Bull - Breed-specific Legislation (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/legislation.php)


Excerpt:

While dog attacks on people are a serious concern to the authorities and the public, American Pit Bull Terriers pose no special danger, and measures against them that ignore demonstrably more guilty breeds are unjust and will be ineffective in reducing the number of attacks.

No breed of dog has an inherent temperament that automatically expresses itself, whether for aggression or any other trait. Behaviour of dogs varies more between individuals than between breeds, and the determining factor relevant to danger is human environmental input.

Reliably assessing the breed of individual dogs is all but impossible, and is out of the question for cross-breeds. Very many owners of dogs will learn they have "pit bull types" when their dogs have no American Pit Bull Terrier blood.

The costs and procedures in attempting to administer these laws will be insuperable, and will lead to patchy and arbitrary enforcement, to the additional compromise of natural justice.

Many well-behaved dogs will suffer death for having a certain appearance, and their decent owners will suffer significant grief and expense.

Endangered Dog Breeds Assoc (http://www.edba.org.au/collier.html)

starman? It is SO tragic to hear stories like these about people getting ripped apart and I'm sorry about that, truly. But we all know that it just isn't pitbulls themselves that are capable and attack people. ANY kind of dog is capable of this as Pitbulls are capable of being great dogs.

Also, PLEASE DON'T PUT YOUR NAME TO THE BIBLE. Your attitude is an embarassment to those of us who read the Bible and do our best to live by it. The Bible is a book of love, truth, mercy, grace, and justice, CHRIST. It is not to be used by people like you to make self righteous comments about others values, that is a whole other subject. I am a Christian and love pitbulls. I have strong values, thank you. Why don't you learn about love and grace instead of pompously looking down your nose at people because of the type of dog they choose!! Read your Bible for yourself! It's not about being a spiritual snob it's about the love of God. God made animals, therefore, God made dogs, therefore God made pitbulls. Before you wag your pompous tongue, whether or not they are a breed, whether or not they were bred to fight, they are here by God's allowance. thank you very much.

I have a wondeful GOD GIVEN pit-bull myself and he would never hurt anyone. We have neighborhood children that love him, and they want to pet him and play with him. They can and they do with no problems except getting licked. He loves everyone and brings so much joy to people. Maybe that's something you haven't discovered yet. Oh, that's in the Bible too. JOY. Please stop embarassing the name of Christ and His real followers by your self righteous Pharisee attitude. Learn to LOVE. Read the book of John, see what is required of God above all things. Grace and Mercy.

GOD LOVES PIT-BULLS

Sorry I offended you. My concern was more for the victims thanfor the animals. If indeed following Christ means showing more concern for the animals than for the human victims, then I guess we aren't reading the same Bible nor do we worship the same God. Furthermore, at no time did I place the blame totally on the owner or the dog. Animals will behave in a bad way for a variety of reasons. However, go tell that to the kid who is permanently disfigured and see what he has to say about your concern for the dog that ripped his face off. So again, it's a matter of priorities and ours just don't seem to mesh. As for emabarasing you by calling myself Christian, perhaps in view of your priorities that qualifies as a compliment.

BTW
God also made sharks. Does that mean that the people who show concern for shark attacks aren't Christians because they are upset about a human being getting an arm ripped off? Or if he suggests that certain sharks be aggressively discouraged from getting near beaches where humans are swimming? The original animals God made had no such tendencies and were therefor unconditionally lovable.

Also, if indeed you feel so self righteous as to level your condemnation in my direction, then you are obviously very ignorant in relation to scripture which specifically tells you not to judge.
In fact, Christians aren't supposed to put the wellfare of animals above those of humans so there too you are in grave error.

There are no bad dogs just bad owners. This has nothing to do with religion to start with. It is about arresting the dogs owners who made them mean to start with.

There are people who enjoy dog fights and the dogs are trained to do just that. There are people who take no interest in there dogs except to say how well it protects there house. These are also people who should be arrested and not allowed to have dogs.

I have never met a mean dog unless it was trained for meanness or was mistreated by the owner or others in the household. These are just the facts and there is no argument that can change that. As we all know our county or state would rather arrest or kill a mean dog rather that arrest the owner who caused the problem to start with.

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?
Pit bull are like people. Treat them well and they are good dogs. Treat badly, then become vicious. No bad dogs. Bad owners.

Pit bull are like people. Treat them well and they are good dogs. Treat badly, then become vicious. No bad dogs. bad owners.

Nothing can breed out of existence. Unbreeding will de-exist them.


Tom

My expressions were based on a child who had recently gotten his face ripped off.
If indeed I offended pitt bull owners by reacting too strongly to thepermanent mangling, then I apologize.

I LOVE your sarcasm Starman. You obviously aren't reading the responses thoroughly and just insist on demonizing the wrong thing just to prove you are right. How many times do people have to post this? IT IS THE OWNERS THAT ARE AT FAULT, not the dog. I have seen what kind of damage a poorly bred and untrained chihuahua can do. It bit through and pulled off a child's cheek and part of his lip not too far from where I live. Should I state that chihuahua's are pests and should be banned? You and everyone like you are ridiculous in your insistence on not focusing on the real threats to our society. People who are irresponsible owners and breeders.

Dogs that are aggressive TOWARD PEOPLE, are either inbred, untrained or poorly trained, unsocialized or poorly socialized. It is not the fault of the dog. It is completely the fault of the owner. If you have a dog that has shown aggression toward people to an extent that it is a danger to allow them around people, it needs to be completely contained, or preferably, euthanized. Those people who claim their dog "never did anything like that before" are liars. You cannot live with a dog, day in & day out, and not notice any aggressive tendencies. We need much tougher laws against these people. Unfortunately, we live in too lenient a society. I believe training & breeding classes, along with the passing of a test and licensing, should be mandatory for all. And guess what, the same reasoning should be applied to the same idiots who insist on procreating and don't take the proper responsibility for their own children, and for those people that abuse their own kids. I have no patience for anyone who CHOOSES to do the wrong thing when it comes to being responsible for their pets and children.

FYI, I don't understand the point you are trying to make with your excerpt. It pretty much goes against your stance, not support it.

Again... I recognize that a stupid owner can make a loving dog a hateful beast.

I get it.

But I still don't care if an owner is offended if I cross to the other side of the street with my 2 year old.

And I still know the young woman whose face was ripped into by the pit bull when she did nothing to provoke the animal.

I'm not calling for them to be wiped off the face of the earth... but I surely don't want one next door to me when my son is outside.

I wonder if these Pitt Lovers would be so defensive of their dogs if it had been their own face that had been ripped up. Somehow, I suspect that they wouldn't be singing the same song.

I LOVE your sarcasm Starman. You obviously aren't reading the responses thoroughly and just insist on demonizing the wrong thing just to prove you are right. How many times do people have to post this? IT IS THE OWNERS THAT ARE AT FAULT, not the dog. I have seen what kind of damage a poorly bred and untrained chihuahua can do. It bit through and pulled off a child's cheek and part of his lip not too far from where I live. Should I state that chihuahua's are pests and should be banned? You and everyone like you are ridiculous in your insistence on not focusing on the real threats to our society. People who are irresponsible owners and breeders.

Dogs that are aggressive TOWARD PEOPLE, are either inbred, untrained or poorly trained, unsocialized or poorly socialized. It is not the fault of the dog. It is completely the fault of the owner. If you have a dog that has shown aggression toward people to an extent that it is a danger to allow them around people, it needs to be completely contained, or preferably, euthanized. Those people who claim their dog "never did anything like that before" are liars. You cannot live with a dog, day in & day out, and not notice any aggressive tendencies. We need much tougher laws against these people. Unfortunately, we live in too lenient a society. I believe training & breeding classes, along with the passing of a test and licensing, should be mandatory for all. And guess what, the same reasoning should be applied to the same idiots who insist on procreating and don't take the proper responsibility for their own children, and for those people that abuse their own kids. I have no patience for anyone who CHOOSES to do the wrong thing when it comes to being responsible for their pets and children.

FYI, I don't understand the point you are trying to make with your excerpt. It pretty much goes against your stance, not support it.


I am aware that dog owners are responsible for encouraging bad dog behavior. But in my view that is irrelevant if the dog itself has a higher tendency to bite or a lower threshold for provocation and because of it rips a child's face off. Does the Pitt Bull fit that description? Some say yes and others say no. I tend to agree with the latter. I may be wrong of course. But better safe than sorry. As for breeding them so that they become less temperamental if indeed they are, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it if it will save human lives and reduce life threatening mangling attacks. As for the choice and tone of my original question, I apologized and apologize again. I could have phrased it differently in order to avoid giving offense.


bTW

The point I am trying to make with the excerpt is that I am not as ignorant of the pro- Pitt Bull counterarguments as you claim. Neither have I suggested that they be exterminated. I meant to breed them into a more docile version for the sake of human safety. Nothing more nothing less. Anything beyond that is due to the feverish imagination of fanatical Pitt bull lovers.

....People are to blame for cruelty to these prro animals. Would you ban a tiger or a cougar from existance, well then why would you a pit bull, its is not a humans right to ban a dog, they have as much right as you and i to walk the earth god has given us. We have already destroyed enough, lets not add more to it.

I am not suggesting destruction. I am merely suggesting slight modification via interbreeding with a more docile breed. Cougers, tigers, and lions aren't in proximity to children. That's why I don't suggest that their temperaments be modified.
You say there is no temperament to modify in a Pitt Bull, despite their breeding for aggression. I opine otherwise and I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.


BTW

If a moderator could change the original wording in the post to: "Should Pitt Bulls be made more docile?" and remove it from the pest category and place it under Pets, or Zoology I would apreciate it.

Starman,
I understand what you are saying. But the pitbull is not an aggressive dog. They are not mean and crazy dogs. The dog fighting sport is really getting out of control. The reason you hear so many horrible things is because of those people. If you ever owned a pitbull terrier you would understand and completely fall in love with this breed. Ask any pitbull owner. I can guarantee they will always reply, I will always have a pitbull as long as I live. Unless of course they ended up with and inbred or abused dog. People should really read before getting a pitbull. I think that is one major problem. Before getting a pitbull, you should see the parents, make sure they aren't aggressive. Be extremely careful when rescueing one and make sure you work with them as soon as you get them. Back when fighting first started, pitbulls were put down if they showed ANY sign of people aggression. They wanted the dog to be dog aggressive but not people aggressive. Now adays, ignorant people just breed and breed not caring what the dog is like as long as he's tough and mean. Its really sad and unfortunately some people end up with this blood in their dogs. The pitbull is not for everyone. Unfortunately young guys love the fact of having a tough scary looking dog that will protect their house. Well if that is all that that dog has ever learned, if he gets out, who knows what it will do. It is unfortunate. You just really have to be carful with what you say about this breed. People that own pitbulls take it very offensively because these dogs are our babies. We hear it enough when we take them for walks. People will walk up to my dog and pet him and tell me what a well behaved dog he is and how cute he is. But as soon as they ask what breed, they run. That's fine. It hurts a little, but if that's how they feel about it, stay away from him. I don't care! But I can tell you that every single person that spent an hour around my dog and seen how good of a dog he is, they all say, I want one of his puppies. I plan on having a couple of litters because if you have an excellent dog, you should keep that gene going. As long as you KNOW you have good owners for the puppies. I understand your concern about this breed because it is a huge deal and needs to get under control. The government needs to change something but ending the breed is not the answer. Do me a favor and please please please turn on the discovery channel some day. Watch the dog whisperer and he will prove you all wrong about this breed. He knows everything about dogs and owns about 12 pitbulls. He knows what good dogs they are and actually uses them to train other dogs. (Nt just pitbulls) It's a goo show though, so please watch it sometime!

Just please understand that pitbulls are not mean dogs. They do not have a higher tendency to bite and they are not naturally aggressive dogs. That is all we are trying to tell you and people that feel the same as you. This breed is very strong yes! So you are going to hear about it more than if a chihuahua bites someone because they do more damage. I work with dogs all day long. I see every breed there is. I have never came across an aggressive pitbull. Not once since I've been there for 4 years. Other dogs yes, one breed in particular which I will not mention. And yet I do not think badly of that breed. You know why? Because every time I've seen an aggressive dog, I noticed that the owner chose not to do anything about it. They didn't correct that dog for his actions. And because of that for anyone to say a certain breed should be bred out of existence, I think is far from the right answer. If anyone should be bred out of existence, its
Ignorant people that have no soles and choose to make this breed or any dog, an aggressive dog! And that is impossible just like it is for pitbulls. And if it does happen (which it won't) those idiots will pick they next best dog for the job, and that breed will get the bad rep. It's a never ending cycle!

bTW
The point I am trying to make with the exerpt is that I am not as ignorant of the pro- Pitt Bull counterarguments as you claim. Neither have I suggested that they be exterminated. I meant to breed them into a more docile version for the sake of human safety. Nothing more nothing less. Anything beyond that is due to the feverish imagination of fanatical Pitt bull lovers.

I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, what you are suggesting is an impossibility. The majority of people who breed pitbulls for a living, don't do it for the love of the breed but for their fighting potential. They want the dog-on-dog aggression. They want winners. They don't think, or care about, the implications their actions have on society. In speaking with a veterinarian/dog behaviorist specialist friend of mine, she was complaining to me that she is seeing more and more aggressive Golden retrievers & labs that are attacking people, than pitbulls. It is due to completely irresponsible breeding. These dogs come from Puppy Mills or backyard breeders. We need to change the laws. People that want to become breeders must be properly trained and licensed to be breeders. There needs to be a recertification every few years through each State Veterinarian Office. The penalty for breaking those laws must be stiffer. It is the only way we are going to make a dent in dog aggression problems along with all the inherited genetic disorders all domesticated breeds are plagued with. I was reading something very recently that states that there are more species of dog on this planet, than any other animal. It is due to humans breeding them for specific purposes.

And, by the way, I am not fanatical about anything except for my desire that people don't believe everything they hear and read. I am fanatical about research and people arming themselves with knowledge when a problem is at hand that needs a logical resolution.

I hold KP2171's opinion on AMHD in very high regard. I understand completely what he is saying. He is being proactive in his desire to protect himself and his family. If you don't know the person walking their dog and you are at all uncomfortable, cross to the other side of the street. A dog should not be left outside unsupervised, tied up all day long and left alone every single day in this manner, or left alone in a fenced in back yard that is not completely secured (to ensure the dog doesn't get loose). Those are the people whose dogs have behavioral issues and when loose, they are prone to attack due to lack of socialization. Those people deserve to have their dog removed and fined/jail time, the maximum the law will allow. My dog is not allowed off lead and I know where she is every second of the day. The same goes for the fosters/rescues I take into my home. There is no excuse for being lax in this. Dog ownership is a major responsibility and it is a privilege not to be taken lightly.

Yes, I am familiar with The Dog Whisperer and notice that he has well-behaved pit bulls in his kennel. Based on what I have seen all dogs have a tendency to misbehave if they aren't treated correctly. As you say, since pit bulls are so strong when they misbehave it's more impressive than when say a Chiuaua does. So I agree that the solution lies in preventing the wrong kind of people getting ownership.

BTW

Four years ago I was not the same person I am now. Now I wouldn't phrase a question in that manner. In fact, shortly after posting it I sought a way to edit it but I was too late and there it sits offending people. My mistake.

O.K.
Call us smart ones fools, you do know that is a sin right? But Pit Bulls have been the subject of national media for one simple fact. They will and have attacked human beings, as well as other animals. The post say they are raised to be mean they are not born that way. Well this sounds like the same type person whom would debate over someone's sexual preferences as whether they were born that way, or grew in to it. Anyway, the pit bull is responsible for a great number of maulings, and even deaths. A lot of times you will see owner's of these dogs have there names in the paper for such things as theft , and drugs. And I am not saying all of you are thiefs, or drug dealers. And some people own them for fighting them. I have seen where these dogs have been lucky to have an old steel barrell for a house, if anything, and have a chain hooked to their collars, and hope they would be fed and watered some day. But to find the stats look at your state's health department records. I think you will see that the #1 yes I did say that pit bulls are #1 but they are going to be #1 at the top of the lists of dogs that maul, or kill people.
Thanks I enjoyed voicing my opion.

Would someone let me know what
BTW stands for??

BTW, stands for "by the way". And, yes Mowerman, this is the place to voice your opinion about pitbulls. You can most definited state your opinion and talk about your experiences here. Any time you want to have a debate or discussion about anything, start a thread in the members discussion forum or under Issues & Causes. We need to be sensitive to the people posting their questions and that we are here to answer those specific questions posed. Just as you have done in appliances or lawn & garden. We are not allowed to get off topic on a thread and just voice our opinions. It is frowned upon by the owners of this web site.

As an aside, I read your update regarding your attack when you were 3 years old. You may not have been alone, but the fact that the owner of the dog allowed people to walk through his salvage yard when he had a trained attack dog on the premises was so incredibly irresponsible on his part. That dog should have been confined with other people present/visiting. One thing that might interest you is that when a dog is used for protection of property and trained to attack, they react to "interlopers" of their area just like a wild dog would. He was protecting his territory. What he saw was a pack situation with all of you walking in a line within his territory, and he attacked the most vulnerable of that pack.

I am not going to get into a debate with you regarding pitbulls. I have already said my piece on this post and on other posts. You are entitled to your opinion.