A friend of mine committed suicide about a week ago, claiming he was a Christian. I grew up Southern Baptist and had always heard that the one thing that separates you from God is taking your own life, is this true?

No. God knows we are temporarily trapped on this earth and subject to failed relationships, mental and physical illnesses, financial problems, family difficulties, along with many other fears and anxieties. He looks into our heart and knows our struggles. He has told us to be strong but knows we cannot always be.

I have always stumbled on this, but in the end, the choice I have decided on is this.

No one sane would kill thierself, so if you do, there is a mental defect or some emotional problem, that caused it.

Thus a person who does this,is not of clear mind and they are not responsible for their actions.

But on the other hand, merely "claiming" to be a christian is not saving you either, most christians are not saved. The real question only they know is if they accepted Christ as their Savior at some point in their life.

See, I look at it from another prospective. Murder is a sin and suicide is murder. How can you seek forgiveness for the sin of committing murder if you are already dead? It is a paradox for sure, and no one will have a definitive answer until the day of judgment.

Suicide is in contrast with the Power of Life that God gives us. The Bible does say that you should not murder. (This can be understood as "taking your own life and the life of another.)

Each person, whether Christian or not, will have difficult and very low times in their life. But as Christians, we each have the power to face everything that this world brings before us with God's help. That includes those things that "throw us for a loop." We have a source of help that can sustain us through.

This was taken from something I had read. "We no longer belong to ourselves, but to God. We are overseers of our bodies and our lives (which belong to Him), and we are responsible to guard that which has been entrusted to us."

There have been suicides in the Bible and most of them were from despair, fear, and disappointment. You can even look at Samson who in taking the lives of those in the arena, knew that he would be taking his life. Did he have another choice? Was his revenge! Here is another verse about causing your death. "Do not be a fool--why die before your time?" (Ecclesiastes 7:17b) Clearly, God is against it and wants us to have life.

Here is what Job said in his lowly state, So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life. I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity" (Job 7:15-16). David and Jeremiah are just a few others that were in despair at times.

The Bible lists the only unforgivable sins as rejecting Christ (Mark 16:16) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He does not spell out what happens to those that commit suicide (do they go to Heaven or Hell). Maybe that was for a good reason. If He had said that suicide was forgivable and not a sin, then more people would probably take their lives. Either way, it is clear that each person will stand before God and give an account of his/her life. God will be our ultimate Judge.

For now, it is important as Christians to remain close in our walk with God so when the rough times comes, we will remember from where our help comes.

As 450donn said, we can not know the answer until Judgment Day.

A friend of mine committed suicide about a week ago, claiming he was a Christian. I grew up Southern Baptist and had always heard that the one thing that separates you from God is taking your own life, is this true?

My take on the life is that God has sent us on this earth to accomplish a mission. We have varied things to do. Some accomplish that mission by doing the jobs they have, some accomplish by doing after-work things for people. A person is intelligent enough to distinguish between a work for God and work for Devil. When Lord God has counted our breathes and we CAN NOT take one more or one less than that, then, in my opinion, committing suicide will not please God. Shortening our lives means that we have taken over the control of life in our hands and have kicked God out of driving seat of the life. When that happens then we are no more in relationship with God.

Christians do face all the obstacles during this journey of life which non-christians face, rather I would say life for a Christian is harder that for a non-believer. The Bible tells us II Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. And also we know that HE never puts a burden on a person more than the bearing capacity of the person. Matthew 16:30 "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." When we have this assurance, why don't people seek help from God. Satan is always on the go to find a weak soul and devour it. Only those people get crushed under the burden who do not seek strength from God. They trust their own capability rather than having faith on Lord God. And Psalm 118:8 tells us - It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man. One who leaves everything in HIS hands and ask HIM to come into HIS life, never thinks of shortening life. Life of David Livinstone is another example of leaving everything in HIS hands. Here it is if you have not heard of him earlier. YouTube - Ravi Zacharias tells the story of David Livingstone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OV5US78BFg).

I have few friends who are pretty depressed and talk of suicide. I always tell them to talk to Lord Jesus and ask HIM to lift them up out of the situation. One of my friends, who has recently accepted Lord Jesus as his saviour, told me to tell my friend, when I told him about my her thinking of suicide, that "She is a mean person if she thinks of suicide because she only thinks of herself and not of her family". How inspiring, assuring and soul lifting wordings are of hymn "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" YouTube - Paul Baloche Live - What a Friend We Have in Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeeuSoES0kw&feature=related)

A mother put a message on the board today.Eight weeks ago her son committed suicide.She wanted to know if he loved her and if he was at peace.

I replied that my faith tells me he is at peace.

Would anyone care to tell that mother different?

The bible tells us that our bodies are a temple in that we are to stay as clean and healthy of mind and body as possible if you are aware of a defect i.e. depression its up to you to find help and pray for help there's nothing I've read that has led me to believe that you COULD be forgiven for committing suicide however this may have been purposely left out so as not to encourage it as an easy way out of lifes tribulations

I agree with Fr_Chuck, Wondergirl and zippit
(the others too but what they said is my ususal reply)

I knew a Christian that committed suicide.
He was schizophrenic
If a person gets too far over the breaking point they may not know what they are doing.

If they do have their mental capicity then likely it isn't forgiven.

We are all sinners but are saved by the grace of God. Sin is sin there is not one sin
worse then another. Mark 3:28 & 29 "I tell you the truth, all sin that people do and
all the things people say against God can be forgiven. 29 But anyone who speaks
against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guily of sin that continues forever,"
Anyone that has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior has unforgiveness in him and that is blasphemey against the Holy Spirit.

Maggie 3

This is a question that has plauged many seminary students.. myself being one. Its hard to know if u are separated from God or not. If we were ever truly His then would w ewillingly destroy His creation?

If we were ever truly His then would w ewillingly destroy His creation?
Yes. Mental illness such as depression, a major negative life event, inability to function normally (after a car accident or skiing accident or diving accident or fire) could cause loss of hope and not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. We are human, and are beset by human failings or life losses that can overwhelm us.

Question?

Where would suicide for someone who is terminal ill

Fit in?

I would say the same as WG said IF they are to the point of no return and in bad enough pain. Just being told you are terminally ill I think one should not abandon hope yet.

I agree with Fr_Chuck on this.
I also believe that Jesus is the judge of who goes where after this life and He KNOWS all the circumstances involved in every person's life so I must trust in His judgment regarding everyone who takes his/her own life and that include everyone one else.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think someday we will know but until that time it is nothing but speculation and folly to assume anything.
I tried to kill myself years ago and I lived.I have huge scars on my arm that remind me everyday that it wasn't my time.
I am a good person and good people want to die everyday.
Don't judge and preach to them,give them love and understanding that's what Jesus would do.He saved me for a reason,I wasn't just faking it I really was serious.I almost lost my arm. Understanding is everything.

I have a friend that did

I felt a lot of anger because I saw what he left

Behind,and I just kept saying you self centered bastard I was mad at him for it
But I've got over that and just feel sorry for him now,and his wife and daughters
When I think of them its hard not to feel anger

I actually just had this conversation with someone the other day; she wants to accept the Bible but is struggling to because a family member that she was close to committed suicide. The Bible speaks against suicide and she wants to feel as if her family member is in Heaven, but she can't accept both things to be true.

Sin - no matter which one it is - separates you from God. The only thing that can reunite you is repentance. That's why suicide is so iffy; most people are dead immediately and cannot repent of their sin. But I also said, he may have realized in the split second before he died just what he was doing, and may have been remorseful. He could be in heaven or he could be in hell; only God knows where we're going after we die.

artlady,
Praise God!!
I'm glad you are still here with us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

artlady,
Praise God!!!
I'm glad you are still here with us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Aw, now I have tears ! Thank you Fred ,it is most heartfelt, your thanks!
I have saved a few lives since then so ,hay It's all good:)
Can we talk?
I like you .The other day a mother posted saying 8 weeks. Ago my son committed suicide .Did he love me and is he at peace?
I would like you to answer her because I was the only one who answered.
I was afraid at first ,so I said oh no what can I say.
I moved on and I said I can't do that.
I didn't know what to say so I prayed and I think for a minute she knew someone was there.
If you could help I haven't been able to get my mind off her and I am praying! BIG TIME!
Lots of people.
Here is the link .I think a little more love would help this Mom. All Gods Love to you :)https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/bereavement/heartbroken-mum-383476.html

Gods knows when you hurt and I don't believe for a minute you are sent to hell for not being able to live on earth.When life is too much.
I don't believe it! All Gods love to all of you who ever wanted to take the easy way out! Don't do it it... PRAY! :)
The Lord is your Shepard!

artlady,
For your friend...
I believe that a person is very much mentally disterbed who commits suicide.
For whatever reason her son did that I'm sure that it did not effect his love for her.
And yes I think he is more a peace now than just before he took his life.
He was not at peace in any way at that time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I don't believe it necessarily separates you from God, but it certainly doesn't please him. Imagine this: There was an entire group of people that were going to die and you wanted to save them but the only way to do it would be to have your son killed. Would you do it? Most people wouldn't. But God did. He gave his only-begotten son as a ransom for all sinful humans on Earth. What an extremely humbling thing to do! So imagine if you saved all those people and then they killed themselves. Would you not be upset or angry? I mean you gave up your SON to save these people. I would feel very disrespected.
That's what suicide is. It is no respect for God or the sacrifice he made for us. Yes, living on this Earth is no fun task and Satan does NOT make it very easy on us. But as long as we pray for help, assurance and guidance from Jehovah (God) he will be there to help us. As the scriptures bring out " And Jehovah is the one marching before you. He himself will continue with you. He will never desert you nor leave you entirely. Do not be afraid or terrified" (Deut. 31:8)

So, suicide will not separate you from God but it is very disrespectul to God and everything he has done for us.

With that sad, I really am sorry about your friend. It actually doesn't surprise me that your friend was pushed to that level. This world is a scary place. Sometimes I feel like doing it. But I just pray to God and ask for help. He is the only one that knows how to comfort me in times like those. Keep your spirits up and never forget the power of prayer! :)

Karamel,
Thanks for your interesting point of view on this.
But I do believe that a person is our of his/her mind when they commit suicide.
Therefore God and any other thing that is good is also out of their minds.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes, Arcura I agree. They can't be completely sane. . But you don't just wake up crazy one day! There had to have been actions and thoughts that led up to it. Some people don't handle things as well as others and until we are perfect, nothing is going to change that. That's just life for now, unfortunately :/

Karamel,
True!!
Fred

I wonder how many people say *God forgive me * before they eat the gun?

artlady,
I'd wager not many, if any.
I think that people who commit suicide dio not think of God at that time.
Some may, but I doubt it would be many.
Fred

artlady,
I'd wager not many, if any.
I think that people who commit suicide dio not think of God at that time.
Some may, but I doubt it would be many.
Fred

I did.

I did.

That was my exact point. Some people are remorseful - others are not.

We cannot say whether someone is going to Heaven or to Hell; only God has that answer.

I am a Christian and I think about killing myself, and I am going to get in depth here, so get ready. Also I am 24.

For one I do believe that my suicidal thoughts, that I have from time to time are caused by the residual effects of my old life, where I was so hopeless and unfortunetly we create mental habits.

So when I get stressed or I feel anxiety I can usually go to God speak to him and understand that this is a positive situation because it gives me a chance to become stronger, mentaly and it is a test of my faith, will I rely on God, will I give in to the temptation, the only way to get better at something is to succeed where you once failed, to literally face your demons, I could not personally do this without God, some may call this weak, but when I am weak in myself I become stronger in God and our relationship deepins as does my faith for he truly has never abandoned me.

Now lets actually go to this week, something really negative happened to me, I lost my job that I had for 2 years and I loved everyone there it was my place, and my boss was my friend but he fired me, I was sad, and that was Monday, but I just went to God and said what do I do with this situation you have given me, so I decided I would write my boss a letter telling him that while I do not understand his reasoning, but I am not angry at him, and I forgive him for any pain this has caused me and hope that we can still have a civil relationship, now that was Monday, Tuesday I was good... today and its odd I read this post, but the suicidal thoughts started to come, this is how they go, usually It starts with me imagining how I will die, gunshot, hanging, stabbing, what I would do to myself would I put a note on me, would I stab a note through my body, where would I do it, would it be in front of the people that hurt me, would I be alone somewhere I pretty much fantasize death and the emotions are something like extreme sadness mixed with anger, cause I do not want to die, I just want to die, and now you get the insanity that is suicidal thoughts, they are usually accompinied by thoughts of past relationships and about how hurt they made me, about how I feel like I can never be whole, that my life will never be manageble and that no one is ever going to love me, because I'm cursed and it just hurts a little more, but there is a pleasure as well, something feeds and enjoys these thoughts this fantasy. I have not had suicidal thoughts like I did today in a long time.. well long for me like 5-6 months... and I was really thinking about it, wondering if God would forgive me, and at the same time knowing he would, but also knowing that it was not right. I would like to say that I think most people before they kill themselves probably think about God, whether they are Christian or not, but not in the sense you are thinking, when I think of God during these times, I am not asking for help, or saving I am simply like hey I'm out this life is to cold for me, too much, and your not even enough and I know you are but I just can not take this insanity for another day, I can not take these broken memories for another second they make my life misrable and my only other option for instant relief is death, I just want to be with you, to be free of this. I will tell you right now, suicide is not a theological question, it is not talked about in the Bible at all or not very much. As to the murder thing, there are two hebrew words for killing, one means to murder aka to kill a man for an envious reason or a self focused reason and one is to kill to defend or during fighting. Murder in the first sense is the one that Moses wrote on the 10 commandments, so know that murder to God is not just killing something. Its where your heart is at, and where your soul is at, if you are saved by calavary than you are saved, he took your place end of story as long as you believe that and have faith in that than you are saved, sinning while you die or not. Suicide is a sin I am sure of that, but Jesus came to take our sin away, and I am sure out of his mercy if a believer ended there own life it would be forgiven, he does not see like we see nor does he judge like we judge, I know I am not wrong here, Jesus has taken my spot, no matter what I do, and that does not give me free reign to sin, in fact I hate sin, but it does not mean that I do not sin, we are cursed with it until these bodies die.

sorry about all the spelling errors I was typing fast and am not going to spell check :)

Suicide is the ultimate act of faithlessness and placing yourself above God. Having said that, we cannot know whether a person who suicides is actually insane and unable to control their actions. So I suggest God might view each case on its merits, but as a general injuction suicide is no different to murder and we know God doesn't sanction that but will forgive a repentant sinner. What I find difficult is to see how a willful act so far away from God's purposes is likely to produce repentance

paracelete that is pure unabashed judgement, killing yourself is not murder. Tell me if when you are on your deathbed your last words are a lie, are you forgiven? Jesus took my place end of story, no matter what I do, I do not have to ask forgivness for every sin I commit what yoke is that? I am forgiven by my faith in the Son alone, the LAW is Dead by the flesh of the Son.

If you read what paraclete said in relation to the context you will see that he said IN GENERAL and with exceptions... so where's the judging?

He is acting as he was God that is what I mean by judging.. he is stating that in certain situations or under pending circumstances sin will be forgiven or not, it does not state this once in the Bible, its says

Colossians 2:13-15 (NIV)

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers of authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, truimphing over them by the cross.

Acting as God is passing judgement, speaking as though your words hold as much ground as Gods is passing judgement, I do not mean in the worldy way. I also do not care if you put I prepose or any other such statement your heart is easly seen in your post itself.

So do you say that any Christian that kills themselves goes to heaven?

I am saying that any man that has faith in the son is saved by that alone and nothing else, not his deeds good or bad, even in death, FAITH ALONE SAVES, If I were to end my life today, I would go to my father, he does not see like we see, in his eyes my sinful nature and who I was died with Jesus, I was on the cross with him, when I come to the Father because of my Faith alone I am saved. It is a large mystery and I do not even begin to say I understand it all, I just know that to God, Faith, aka belief in something is the most important thing ever.

I will use a worldy example on just how important belief is to us as humans and its effects, and hopefully that can give you some slight understanding of what it must mean to God.

Almost every single highly successful person states that belief in there idea, and belief in themselves and the belief of others in them brought them to where they are at.

Dan Doogan of the Metal band Disturbed stated in Guitar World (paraphrased) "I was a construction worker and I made a decent living, but I just could not get this idea of playing in a band out of me, I just had this belief in myself."

Tiger Woods stated if it was not for the belief of my father in me I would not have gotten to where I was.


Its really simple for us humans if you have belief in something it does something sublime and yet at the same time very reconizable, how much must it mean to God than, he states in the Bible that by Faith (belief) alone you shall be saved... it must mean something massive to him and it must do something that we as we are not just can not grasp the full concept, we just have the crumbs of the idea.

paracelete that is pure unabashed judgement, killing yourself is not murder. Tell me if when you are on your deathbed your last words are a lie, are you forgiven? Jesus took my place end of story, no matter what I do, I do not have to ask forgivness for every sin I commit what yoke is that? I am forgiven by my faith in the Son alone, the LAW is Dead by the flesh of the Son.

There are many issues here such as once saved always saved, repentance, whether the person is really saved or just has knowledge of Jesus, insanity, who can know? This is why I think God might judge each case on its merits but why take the chance, if God wants you dead for mercy reasons or any other reason, he can call you otherwise wait around and get a grip.

This is no different to any other situation, salvation is not a license to sin. Why would my last words be alie. I am a Christian so my last words will be goodbye see you on the other side

As far as I am concerned and from everything I can gather from the word of God... there is NO sin that isn't covered under the blood of Jesus. SO... if someone is REALLY a christian and would commit this devastating act, MOST definitely they would be with the Lord Jesus.

Jesus Christ... HIS son.. cleanses us from all sin. Last time I check ALL means ALL!

This answer is based on the Bible.. not what I think or feel.

Classy T is right, I am not arguing with you, I am stating what the Bible says multiple times, that we shall be saved by faith alone, humans always want to add human ideas to things, there are not "many isssues" the Bible gives it to you straight its from God, its absolute truth, there are not variations (that is the devils playground) there are not sub-sections there is no fine print, there are parables, if when I die I have faith in Jesus aka BELIEF, that I believe that he existed, hence God exist, that I believe with my heart that he died on Calavary and that when this happened and I accepted that, I was given at that exact moment the Holy Spirit, the great counsler, the thing that makes me able to speak with God, and to hear him within my heart, within my consouiness, than I am saved by that faith alone, which must mean a lot to God considering how many times he stresses belief in the Son is the only way to gain forgivness.
If you are having trouble understanding we are saved by faith alone, if you think I have to do something to gain it, or think in a certain way(other than belief in God, and Calavary) to gain it I suggest this book, "50 reasons Christ came to die" by John Piper, which heavly uses text from the Bible to support itself, which to me is the only way to avoid opinions, I dislike very much when a man assumes to be God and starts adding laws on his own bias opinion. Judas did commit suicide but he also did not have faith that is one of the only NT references to suicide that I can think of, and it does not matter if you shoot yourself or die from a car wreck without the son... and we are not to judge cause we do not know who has it and who does not.. it may appear to us as humans so and so does not but in fact does, we do not know the conversations people have had with God, and as far as I am concerned because of the authority in the Bible, if a killer had faith that Jesus died for him and began to repent and maybe he kills again while repenting, maybe he just can not stop killing but he knows it wrong and is trying to be with God (this is an extreme but by the word of the Bible is none-the-less true) than he is saved by that faith alone, if you can not swallow that, its good you should not be able too, its God he is above us, he knows this life is really nothing, worldly people can not even imagine that, they can not get around the fact that this life is NOTHING and the only important role it is to play now (remeber the world was Gods good work but it was ruined by sin) is for the salvation of his creations so he can save as many as possible, this of course is just one of the mysteries God does not give to us as to why, I personally do not know why sin is so grievous to God that he must eradicate it in the end and anyone who has it within him, you must see Sin for what it really is, its not an act, if it was it could be reversed by them, it's a curse a disiese, its something we as men can not fully understand, we only get the vague idea and know after being saved that it was in fact doing something to us, a worldy man will only know things as "good" or "bad" for him, I do not do this because it causes this, or I do this because X reason... we start to make up our own rules, our own truths, but God cleary states there is an absolute truth an absolute way to live, and you know what, none of us can do it... not one of us, we can not be what God had intended us to be until these bodies which are cursed with Sin are destroyed and only our Spirits remain, now imagine yourself as a spirit an energy ball or something, this is where the blood of Jesus is, on our souls it shows to God we have made a sacrifice (again another mystery, why is sacrifice so important to him, we as humans again only get the crumbs, we know self sacrifice to be a comendable act, we see it even in the world as to be so, again how much more it must mean to God how important it must be, he may reveal it one day to us) so Jesus' sacrifice is on us and God says this soul is pure by my standards now to your new body, not tainted by this curse, the enemy is dead no longer will sin destroy my creations. (yet another mystery not revealed to us, why was the enemy given riegn here, why was he allowed to spread his disiese, if we look at this in a finite way we will always just be pissed cause it seems our whole lives have been ruined, but you must see like God does, 80 years is NOTHING, I look forward to an ETERNAL life with God, 80 to the 1000000th power beyond, and I get to be in a body again, I get to live in this life again, but without the negative effects of Sin, I get to hold someone, I get to hang out with people... I get to talk to God.. in person, I get to love without fear, forever and all I have to do is sacrifice 80 years, to not live in this world as I would like to but as God would have me, to be obidient even to the point of death... whether that be physical or any other type of death this world threatens me with.

So, you are basing your argument on the fact that suicide is NOT murder? Is that what I am hearing from you?
So how do you rectify the multiple times in the Bible that God/Jesus speaks about murder or murdering a person?
Such as EX20:13, MT5;:21,MT 23;31, RO 1;29, NU 35:30, JN 8:44, AC28:4, or 1JN3:15.
You first have to reconcile in your mind whether suicide is considered murder. In my book it is. So I have a completely different prospective on the subject.
There then is the whole debate of defiling your body which no one has broached yet. Could suicide be considered defilement of your body?
See, there is no black or white on this subject, and no one will have a true answer until the day we stand before our Lord and God to answer for your works/deeds. But personally I would not want to take the chance, do you?

450donn,

There is NO sin that is not covered under the blood of Jesus Christ. It IS murder... and it is forgiveable. I don't understand why we put so many conditions on salvation.

People claim that when you kill yourself that you can't go back and repent and if you don't ask for forgiveness for every sin then God can't accept you.
Which I can and can't see, because you are either saved or you aren't

We're not arguing that sin is or isn't forgiveable. But how can we be forgiven if we never say we're sorry?

450donn,

There is NO sin that is not covered under the blood of Jesus Christ. It IS murder....and it is forgiveable. I don't understand why we put so many conditions on salvation.

That is true. However how can you ask/seek forgiveness if you are dead? See, this whole debate boils down the which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

My sins are covered, past, present, future. I ask for forgivness because when I don't my relationship with the Lord Jesus suffers NOT my salvation. If me asking for forgivness every time I sinned was a requirement I can tell you right here and now... I have failed.. I WILL fail. Heck sometimes I don't even recognize some of the things I do as sin until the Holy Spirit enlightens me.

My sins are covered, past, present, future. I ask for forgivness because when I don't my relationship with the Lord Jesus suffers NOT my salvation. If me asking for forgivness every time I sinned was a requirement I can tell you right here and now...i have failed..i WILL fail. Heck sometimes I don't even recognize some of the things I do as sin until the Holy Spirit enlightens me.

Accidentally sinning is not the same as making the choice to take your own life. In doing so, you are putting yourself in God's place by deciding who lives and who dies.

There then is the whole debate of defiling your body which no one has broached yet. Could suicide be considered defilement of your body?

?

I did mention the body is a temple which is in the same context as defiling

Accidentally sinning is not the same as making the choice to take your own life. In doing so, you are putting yourself in God's place by deciding who lives and who dies.

I disagree with you. Sin is sin. My relationship with the Lord suffers when I refuse to confess my sins but they are ALL covered under the blood confessed and unconfessed. Believe me... I am sure I have unconfessed sin that I committed WILLINGLY in my life. I don't want there to be but I am a fallen creature. We could get in long debates about someone committing a terrible sin on purpose and then dying in a car crash with no time to repent or confess... they go to hell? Please . Salvation is by faith alone... I don't do anything to earn it... I can't do anything to keep it... it is a gift.

Suicide is a horrible horrible thing. It is a devastating terrible act... but the Lord Jesus forgives everything when we are IN CHRIST, Christ is IN us and we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. We are sealed with his spirit and ain't nothing or nobody going to take that away!!

Incidentally consider the man in 1 corithians 5... he was living with his stepmother as his wife ( yuck, puke.. disgusting). Notice that Paul considers him SAVED. He wasn't confessing anything... HE eventually did but he wasn't not saved because he chose to live in a sinful lifestyle... he was excomunicated until he got his life back on track...

incidently consider the man in 1 corithians 5....he was living with his stepmother as his wife ( yuck, puke..disgusting). Notice that Paul considers him SAVED. He wasn't confessing anything....HE eventually did but he wasn't not saved because he chose to live in a sinful lifestyle...he was excomunicated until he got his life back on track...

Where are you reading that Paul considers him saved?
BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: 1 Corinthians 5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5)

Paul was saying that the man should have been excommunicated so that he would turn from his sin, as we are commanded to do in Matthew 18.

Where are you reading that Paul considers him saved?
BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: 1 Corinthians 5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5)

Paul was saying that the man should have been excommunicated so that he would turn from his sin, as we are commanded to do in Matthew 18.

hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 1 corinthians 5:5

I think it is pretty clear. The man was saved... but he was turned over to satan until he repented... the bible says there is pleasure in sin for a season. I've been there I have done it... and after satan got through with me I came crawling back. I have never ever lost my salvation. I have lost comunication with the Lord Jesus because how could I pray when I was doing things that were clearly wrong? I lost my fellowship never ever lost my salvation.

hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

I think it is pretty clear. the man was saved....but he was turned over to satan until he repented...the bible says there is pleasure in sin for a season. I've been there I have done it...and after satan got thru with me i came crawling back. I have never ever lost my salvation. I have lost comunication with the Lord Jesus because how could I pray when i was doing things that were clearly wrong? I lost my fellowship never ever lost my salvation.

You don't know if he was saved or not; only we and God know what is in our hearts.

When we choose to sin, we choose to separate ourselves from God. The only way to reconnect is through repentance and turning from our sin. Suicide doesn't allow for either of those.

Now, if someone is truly mentally incapable of understanding what they are doing, I don't believe God will hold them accountable. But when someone has the capacity to take the time to write out a goodbye letter, they know what they're doing and they're choosing what they want over what God wants.

Yes, life is hard. Some of us are stronger than others. But nothing is too hard for God. By saying that life is too hard to deal with is not placing your full faith in Christ and the sacrifice He made for you.

I can not believe people are still talking about this... "The chicken or the egg"?? Another provision, another subtext? Are you reading the same book I do, if our acts in any way shape or form could make us saved or unsaved than Jesus' death was in vain, and he would not have risen into a new body, which was Gods way of saying it is done, my sons sacrifice was sufficient, God does not live in a timeline you are all thinking God has a mind like our own, he is all knowing, yesterday and today and tomorrow do not exist a moment is not a moment to God, when you accept Calavary you are saved by that alone, I will not allow you people to try and say there is another way to state that its possible or its this or maybe that, the Bible states it plain as day BY FAITH ALONE YOU SHALL BE SAVED, not by following the law, not by not sinning, and as for unforgiven sins, that is a mans thought you are using your mind in this temporal timeframe as to say that, but to God the moment you asked him to be with you through the blood of Christ it was done, now of course if you stop believing AKA REJECT THE HOLY SPIRIT, well that is the only unforgivable sin and if you think about it you will know why. I know that right now I could kill myself, I would be saved, it is where your heart/soul is at with God not how many sins you have confessed in the last 24 hours and which ones you haven't and if your remorseful or kind of on edge or struggling with God on an issue. This argument is the same one John had with the Jewish people, go read Corithians, go read Romans, go read every NT after the OG Gospels and you will see plain as day we are saved by Faith alone, no fine print, no ifs and or buts, no chicken before the egg, no I preposes, just Faith in Calvary.

Obviously you choose to only pick what you want to read. I did not make up the passages about murder that I gave you. So pick all you want. But the bottom line still is and always will be,
Are you prepared to play Russian roulette with your eternal soul by committing suicide and then hoping that you are on the right side of this debate?
I summed up this whole debate way back in my post number 4. If you have jumped into the middle of this discussion, please feel free to go back and reread what I said there.

You don't know if he was saved or not; only we and God know what is in our hearts.

When we choose to sin, we choose to separate ourselves from God. The only way to reconnect is through repentance and turning from our sin. Suicide doesn't allow for either of those.

Now, if someone is truly mentally incapable of understanding what they are doing, I don't believe God will hold them accountable. But when someone has the capacity to take the time to write out a goodbye letter, they know what they're doing and they're choosing what they want over what God wants.

Yes, life is hard. Some of us are stronger than others. But nothing is too hard for God. By saying that life is too hard to deal with is not placing your full faith in Christ and the sacrifice He made for you.

Paul said what he said. HE thought the guy was saved. Me? I didn't KNOW him. But I tend to trust PAUL. The Lord Jesus obviously did too. He wrote most of the new testament.

Only the Lord Jesus knows our hearts. Only the Lord Jesus knows who is his. He and only HE will separate the sheep from the goats. But I submit to you... if you are a SHEEP... there is nothing you can do to become a goat. You are either HIS or you aren't.

AGAIN, I base my answer not on how I feel... or what seems right. I base it on the Bible.


450Donn,

You know I love you... but my dear friend... you are WRONG. I do not think suicide is right... I think it horrible but once you are IN Christ nothing and nobody is going to take that away... ( anyone who commits suicide is NOT in their right mind anyway, )

No sin is unpardonable, for one no I do not plan on playing russian roulette, there is no such game with God, he cleary states Faith in the Son destroys the sin that would be on us whether we are murdering or lying... are you choosing to believe in the "law" or in the "Son", I do believe repentance has to do with having a relationship with God and gaining the life he has planned for you, I do believe the attempt to not sin and the resistance of sin is special to God and that to have a good relationship with him is based on both these facts.. if you love me you will follow what I have said, he did not say if I love you I will save you, if you do not sin I will save you. He merely states time and time again that he will love you if you follow his teachings, but as far as saving goes you just have to believe, I know that probably is hard to swallow but that is all he ask, no act we commit will ever make us saved or unsaved, it says this again and again, what are you choosing to hear? You say you consider suicide murder... well I am glad your not God Don nor will you ever be, nor will your opinion ever hold sway over me, or mean more than what the apostle state all through those books you mentioned, there may be a handful of verses about murder, but there is nearly a whole book set upon how Faith has destroyed law, that the law condemed us it was against us, and that the Son came to destroy that law, Don I am sorry the god you believe in is not all forgiving and all powerful, because if he was you could not comprehend his actions, but the god you speak of seems very human to me, I could judge like your god, but my God I can not, I would say murder is an unforgivalbe sin, and I would also say the suicide is an unforgibable sin, I would say sleeping with a prostitute and lying to your wife about it is an unforgivable sin, but my God, he says no action but rejecting his gift is unforgivable. Don you are wrong, there is no unforgivable sin, you are wrong you do not have to ask for forgivness to be forgiven, that is simply for us, God knows we are forgiven he wants us to ask so we know, just like when he test you, he knows your limits, your strenghts and your weaknesses, but you do not. Abraham would have never known how much faith he had until the day God asked him to kill his son, than he knew. Don read the Bible stop judging by acts and by human standards realize the God in the Bible gave his only Son so that we were free of the curse of Sin and the overwhelming Justice of God. Jesus' blood covers a believer now, today, and tomorrow. Its seems to me you are choosing to read what you want, I did not read your passages because they are superceded (over-ruled) by the covenant I have with God through the blood of his son Jesus Christ.

same time post lol

Hey Flesh! :)

Well again you did not read my post Number 4 so I will reprint it here for you to read!
See, I look at it from another prospective. Murder is a sin and suicide is murder. How can you seek forgiveness for the sin of committing murder if you are already dead? It is a paradox for sure, and no one will have a definitive answer until the day of judgment.
So who is being judgmental here? Certainly not me. Like I said in my original post on this subject that this paradox is in Gods hands no matter what you,me, or anyone else thinks or believes the ultimate decision maker is God. I personally just do not want to be in a position to test what I believe God has said on this subject. If you choose to that is your prerogative and please feel free to test the almighty Lord. But, In my opinion testing God is a subject for another discussion.

I agree with ClassyT that he was saved and fell into sin because you don't hand over an unsaved person to satan to be delivered because they are already there and needing pulled out of the grip of satan. There is a difference between saying let them hit bottom so they can be saved and handing them over to satan.

450donn,

I read it your number 4 post. I understand your position but you are under the assumption that all sin must be confessed in order to be saved. I believe the Bible teaches all sins, past, present, future are covered under the blood. ( for true believers) I lose my fellowship with the Lord when I don't confess them. Not my salvation.

I would not now or EVER suggest that suicide is OK... for it is NOT! But I think we can have a definite answer...

What did the Lord Jesus say to those people in that day that they stood before him on Judgement day... they claimed to have done all kinds of miracles and wonders in his name and he said... depart from me you worker of iniquity... I NEVER ( never is key here) knew you. I know the Lord Jesus and he KNOWS me... he cannot say he NEVER knew me. He either does or he doesn't there just is no between. That is my take.

I agree Classy.
The distinction is fellowship not being as close and not loss of salvation.

If you think about it in God's eyes we sin everyday and don't even know it so how can we repent and confess every single sin.
While we may think we are doing all the do's and not doing the don'ts and asking forgiveness when we happen to fall short there are sins we aren't even seeing.
Like the sin of omission and the sin of not doing what God wants us to do.
Like how often do we feel lead that we should go witness to somebody or comfort somebody in need and then we just walk away thinking I
have other things to do. We don't see that often that was God putting it on our heart and we failed him.

Dear This,
Yes, only God has the answer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I've always wondered the same. Suicide and depression runs deep through my family. I would never do it because I feel that my life and body is a gift from god and is not mine to take.
This is going to sound crazy and I'm hesitant about even sharing it but you guys don't know me so I will...
When I was about 12, My aunt (a catholic) told me that when she was 17 she shot herself with my grandma's gun (she was a sheriff). She went on for hours going in terrifying details about hell. (I'll skip those parts) She said she tried to yell and pray for god but her voice was silenced from within. She then prayed with her heart and in her head and she said she saw a bright light and the claws released her body. She's still alive today and has scars that she says were from the claws. It's a pretty crazy story but I believe her and her story scared the crap out of me for years. I think god forgave and saved her in the very moment she cried out to him. Of coarse god is the only one who can judge your friend and nobody can really say where he was sent. I feel that if he was a true christian that he really is with God right now even if what he did was wrong.

I'm really sorry about your loss. I can only imagine the constant worry you have for your friend and the feeling of not knowing. Just keep praying and I will pray for you too.

I have always stumbled on this, but in the end, the choice I have decided on is this.

no one sane would kill thierself, so if you do, there is a mental defect or some emotional problem, that caused it.

Thus a person who does this,is not of clear mind and they are not responsible for thier actions.

But on the other hand, merely "claiming" to be a christian is not saving you either, most christians are not saved. The real question only they know is if they accepted Christ as thier Savior at some point in thier life.

This answer really hurt me, Fr_Chuck.
I have lost SIX people to suicide in the past two years, two of them were my long-time baptist christian boyfriend and my catholic best friend. Now, I know Catholics may share different views to us Baptists but has the Lord not proven in His word that we are loved and are at right to seek forgiveness to our sins? I accepted Christ into my life at the age of fourteen, I was baptized in front of the entire congregation so I can understand your annoyance with those who may not have been saved.

Now, only a single one of my lost loved ones suffered from depression, so how dare you say they aren't sane. Who are you to judge who is mentally calm and who is not? And depression is <b> not </u> a mental defect, as the word defect is to say one is without something vital to life; a physical need to live.

All I recommend is anyone who has their doubts to see one side of this debate. Please take the time to have a read of this essay a friend of my father's wrote many years ago. But I believe it may open your subconscious to new insight.

Suicide: A Civil Right (http://www.antipsychiatry.org/suicide.htm)

Soldier,

Wow. I'm sorry you have lost so many people to suicide. That is horrible and devastating to say the least.

I really can't speak for Fr_chuck but when I read his post I got something totally different from it.

I think he just meant you have to be in a horrible state of mind to commit the act. I personally don't believe people are thinking clearly, whether it is from depression, fear, pain... whatever. AND if they are thinking clear and call themselves a Christian it would be a hard pill to swallow to believe such a thing.

I have no doubt the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. PERIOD. (IF one is a true believer.) BUT there are many people who sit in church Sunday after Sunday and only have a mental belief. That is to say, they believe that Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again however it has NO effect on their life. They have NO relationship with HIM. There is NO fruit. These are the people who say they are Christians... but they do not know HIM.

As a Christian woman, I believe suicide is WRONG and it certainly is NOT OUR RIGHT, But I can't find one verse to suggest that it isn't covered under the blood.

soldierandpixie,
I read Fr_Chuck differently than you do and I agree with him.
I do think that a person who commits suicide is not in their right mind at that time.
I have lost several good friends to suicide, some were high school buddies.
One was an incurable alcoholic.
One was out of him mind over a divorce.
All were very upset with something or other.
I have prayed for God's love and mercy for them them.
That is all that I could do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Until you are trying to kill yourself you will never understand the place you are in that makes you want to do that.
That's it!

artlady,
That is very likely so!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

.

If you think about it in God's eyes we sin everyday and don't even know it so how can we repent and confess every single sin.

.
NOhelp4U, I think you are speaking of OT time frame, before Christ set us free from sin. And I trust daily prayer in the very words that Christ taught us to pray. This prayer can be heard by God, and we are forgiven as an answer to that prayer. (if we believe in fulness of Faith)

This is Why, from what Jesus told us about sin (John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)

What is that truth that we should know and set us free?


John 8:34-35 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Truth being HIS blood does abidth forever in the the house of God. It is there for your forgiveness.

So if we believe in Christ's blood and it's worthiness.. And we call upon our Father in prayer daily in hope of HIS Grace, we are forgiven.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Plus I trust individuals can go further into the fullness of faith when they are begotten again in the conformed image of Christ, and walk in the Spirit. That should be the true hope of every individual, to be all that God created them to be, and being conformed into the image of Christ and His righteousness.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:24-25 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

There is no walking double-minded. One day to walk in the spirit and the next hour to sin. Instead we follow the footsteps of Christ, walk in the spirit to the One Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that offers a good conscience toward God.

Until you are trying to kill yourself you will never understand the place you are in that makes you want to do that.
Thats it!

Agreed, for I have known several different individuals who have fallen in their weakness to suicide. One was a very sweet young girl, who experienced visual second evil person that scared her throughtout a day. These visions were terrible for her, and only someone having the same images of connection could fully understand her fear of life here on earth.

Another was a young man who fell in his own self-esteen. He jumped off a bridge to hang himself, and it left him in a coma and unconscious for 6 months before he died. The entire experience gave eye opening witness to his family and other influences that were connected to his life. They wondered if God was giving him time to change his mind, knowing that God gives no one more then they can bare. But they all felt God was in full controll of the final plug to pull.

And another old man who walked night after night, in the middle of the road, drunk in the dark. Everyone felt when his final walk was ended, a car unaware of his present hit him. What sorrow is left for those who were involved, and felt they had no controll to help him. Was this not in God hands who will permit an end to evilness?

We really can't know all the answers or judge any individuals path in life. God's hand of power and strength is there to call upon. (FAITH)

sndbay,
Yes we are to confess our sins that we are sinners.
If we sin and don't know it confessing that we are sinners I think covers that.
When I pray I ask God to forgive my sins AS I forgive others and I do forgive everyone who has sinned against me by though word and deed whether I know about it or not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay,
Yes we are to confess our sins that we are sinners.
If we sin and don't know it confessing that we are sinners I think covers that.
When I pray I ask God to forgive my sins AS i forgive others and I do forgive everyone who has sinned against me by though word and deed whether I know about it or not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes Fred, man that walks this earth are sinners, and those who have no FAITH remain under the law of sin. They are unable to justify themselves.
But those who hold stedfast to ONE FAITH, and confess the begotten Son of God as ONE LORD, To follow HIS footsteps and surrender their ways to do the WILL of GOD. They walk in the in the Spirit, and are conformed to HIS image of righteousness. (Romans 8:28) They are the new man or new creature (Col 3: 10 Eph 4:24 2 Cr 5:17) They are washed of their old conscience in ONE BAPTISM to have a good conscience toward God.

We are not only to forgive others who sin against us, but we are to cover over the sins of other who sin against us. That means we can't talk of them likewise in gossip or judge them. God's grace is for all man to be clean, and forgiven. Look to heap coals upon their heads, which would be a fresh start of a new day in warmth and feeding. (Pro 25:22 Romans 12:20)

This is off the thread concerning suicide

sndbay
We are not clean unless our sin are forgiven and we must confess them as sinners.
There is not a week or less that goes by in which we have sinned in some way.
Those sins must be dealt with.
They are NOT automatically forgiven when we do them.
Do you think that a person who murders another person is automatically forgiven.
I surely hope not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay
We are not clean unless our sin are forgiven and we must confess them as sinners.
There is not a week or less that goes by in which we have sinned in some way.
Those sins must be dealt with.
They are NOT automatically forgiven when we do them.
Do you think that a person who murders another person is automatically forgiven.
I surely hope not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

POSTED #70


I trust daily prayer in the very words that Christ taught us to pray. This prayer can be heard by God, and we are forgiven as an answer to that prayer. (if we believe in fulness of Faith)


Truth being HIS blood does abidth forever in the the house of God. It is there for your forgiveness.

So if we believe in Christ's blood and it's worthiness.. And we call upon our Father in prayer daily in hope of HIS Grace, we are forgiven.



ATTN:Fred Ask yourself, Do we believed we can be conformed to Christ image of righteousness by walking in the spirit? OFF Thread..

Snd,

I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin... unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it... the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin... we decieve ourselves!

Snd,

I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin....unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it...the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin...we decieve ourselves!

ClassyT,

This question that you ask is what we are discussing on another thread. When we Walk in the Spirit rather then in our flesh.

The book of 1 Peter speaks about being born again or begotten again. The soul is purified in obeying the truth through the Spirit, And the book of (Romans 8:29-30 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. )

God quicken your mortal body by HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you. This is the adoption in being a child of God. (Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. )

What we follow is the Law of Liberty, because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. )

Please join us on the other thread..Having the Sppirit of Christ Jesus

sndbay,
I, a sinner, try to walk with Jesus Christ as His immediate followers did and they were all sinners.
I hope that you get my point.
I believe that Jesus forgives me AS I forgive others.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I do understand what you are speaking Fred.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


Awareness

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

sndbay,
Thanks
Fred