In a case where parental figures have only done a child support order , no court order for custody , what are the fathers rights on visitation ? What needs to be done between the two partys so that the child is allowed to visit one of the parents ?

the story :

the only legal documents , to my knowledge, is the parental form from child support. I signed this long ago because at the very least I could pay child support. This was taken and arranged by the courts and I have diligently paid it for the last 12 years. Me and the ex were never married and ( as stupid as it sounds) I have always let her dictate the relationship between my Son and I. With that said , I have not seen my son in over 12 years , but I have talked to him on a regular basis. Now because of family matters on her end , my son is being rebelious and she has no idea what to do with him. I agreed to let him come visit for 2 weeks and we both talked in length about it. I know that this might be considered as a verbal contract , but I hear horror storys of peoples ex's setting something like this up and then calling the police under the false pretense of " kidnapping" . I want to be trusting and take this visit at face value , but I also don't want to end up in jail. What is the best action I can take in a short time ? ( he comes to visit in 10 days)

also , this is an out of state visit. She lives in Kansas city while I live in boston. I have bought the plane tickets and sent her all the flight information.

You need to go to court and have a custody put in place. Otherwise she can come get him and bring him back at any time at her convince and all kinds of things can go wrong.
You need the order to back you up. Like what if he feels he doesn't want to be with you because he liked that he could walk all over mom? With an order in place it would be easier to bring him back.
Is she wanting you to have full custody?
Her have some visitations? You need to work out a plan with her and do the custody order.

Line everything up asap as soon as you get there. Maybe she could get the forms to file so they are there as soon as you get there.

She doesn't want to give up custody , nor am I pushing for it. It is a stright forward visit in which he stays here for 2 weeks and then flys back home. We both agreed on this.

For just a visit , what forms would I need her to sign ? I'm totally lost in terms of legal stuff .

Are you paying child support through the state, or are you simply mailing her a check every month?

Have you been established as the legal father through a court-ordered DNA test, or by signing a paternity acknowledgement form? If so, then you should have been granted certain visitation rights.

Like N0help pointed out, if you don't have a visitation agreement, she could demand that you send him back to her as soon as he gets off the plane - and you would have to comply.

she dosnt want to give up custody , nor am i pushing for it. It is a stright forward visit inwhich he stays here for 2 weeks and then flys back home. We both agreed on this.

for just a visit , what forms would i need her to sign ? im totaly lost in terms of legal stuff .

She doesn't have to give up custody you do a JOINT custody filing
You can even file it as you being primary and her have the visitations
Or visa versa --depending

A court ordered visitiation is not giving up custody.

When and for how long you get visits need to be done though a court order

Are you paying child support through the state, or are you simply mailing her a check every month?

Have you been established as the legal father through a court-ordered DNA test, or by signing a paternity acknowledgement form?


I have a court order through the state of missori to pay child support. I did this by signing a paternity form through child services in which it stated that I waived my right to a dna test because I believe I am the father. The courts then went through the process in which they sent me forms to sign over this. I will look at the forms and see if there is anything stating custidy or visitation , but I don't believe it states anything as it was just a child support order. I am also on the birth certificate and he has my last name.

You also want to get the support order modified since you will be having him living with you. But you would have to have the custody papers taken care of first so they know what percentage of the time he is going to be with you to come up with an adjusted amount

Your child support order will not list anything pertaining to custody, except probably list you as the non-custodial parent or similar term.

Filing for visitation is separate and within your rights as a father.

She can still have full custody of the child while you get visits either through the summer with holiday breaks as well since you live out of state, but you would have to file that. If you file quickly, you can have the court do an agreed order allowing the agreed visit, so that you will be legally covered for one. It would make your visitation more standardized.

You also want to get the support order modified since you will be having him living with you. But you would have to have the custody papers taken care of first so they know what percentage of the time he is going to be with you to come up with an adjusted amount

You can't have a support order modified for a two week visit.

I apreciate all the help in such a speedy maner. I will go to the local court house on my lunch break to see about starting the paperwork. I leaped first because it has been so long since seeing my son and it wasn't until yesterday that I started thinking of the consequences to that. I probably wouldn't even have thought about it unless my mother had said something :) She suggested coming here to these forums as well as just getting my ex to write out a "permision" slip for my son to come visit.

If you went with the 'permission' slip you would have to have it notarized and then it most likely may not hold up.
With a joint custody thing you won't have to worry what about enrolling him in school and things like that.

If you went with the 'permission' slip you would have to have it notarized and then it most likely may not hold up.
With a joint custody thing you won't have to worry what about enrolling him in school and things like that.

I still think we are only talking about a two week visit, not a change of custody.
Am I mistaken?

I still think we are only talking about a two week visit, not a change of custody.
Am I mistaken?


No , it is not a change in custody , it is a striaght forward visit from the 7th till the 23rd. That is what is in front of me. That's what I have said all along.

Oh yeah I was forgetting the amount of time because I guess I focused on the fact that mom can't handle his rebellion.
He really should take it to court and see about coming up with a better plan than just two weeks though so he can establish a bond with him and be and actual part of his life.

oh yeah I was forgetting the amount of time because I guess I focused on the fact that mom can't handle his rebellion.
He really should take it to court and see about coming up with a better plan than just two weeks though so he can establish a bond with him and be and actual part of his life.

I agree completely.
A twelve year old boy who is acting out could really use a father in his life for some guidance.

To my knowledge any filings for visitation would need to be done in the child's jurisdiction with the mother's residence or possibly where the original child support order was issued, just so that you are aware.

Now you guys have confused me. A signed permision slip for 2 weeks may or may not cover me or do I hit the courthouse to get approval or what am I suppose to start doing ? I can't leave that up to her as she will more then likely not file it and send him anyway , which leaves me open to a kidnapping charge or worse.

Legally, the right answer is to file in court and immediately do that, but it has to be the court with jurisdiction to rule on issues pertaining to the child. Hopefully if filed in time, you and your ex can write in for an agreed order granting the two week visit. Your relationship clearly isn't comfortable as you are worried she would try and file a kidnapping charge. Is she the one purchasing the tickets?

I would go with going to court and getting a joint custody thing filed.
With a joint custody thing no matter how little or how much you see your kid the mother has to inform you of important things going on in his life like doctors appts, surgery, school things and so forth.
If you want him for Christmas vacations and a couple weeks or more for summer vacations or whatever then that can be included. Plus with a joint custody thing you don't have to keep going through this because you will have your rights. Like what if she has another spur of the moment emergency.

No , I purchased them on her behalf. And yes , I don't trust her very much.

It was why my family suggested the permision slip thing , but if need be I will go through the court. I don't know how that will sit with her and I don't want to damage any chances I have of seeing him next week . Yes , I walk on egg shells around her just to be able to talk to him.

Hello M:

Absent a court ordered custody and visitation plan, EITHER parent is entitled to their children... Therefore, you could't be charged with kidnapping your children - EVER.

I've been reading about notes. You don't need a NOTE either to be with your own children.

excon

Personally, filing for joint custody may stop her from wanting your visit to take place. It may make her feel threatened because you haven't partcipated with visitation often previous to this. I would file for a Visitation order and get regular visitation established. It will help to build a bond without a huge change for the child and it will help ensure that the two week visit takes place. Talk to her about what you would like, see if you can get in writing something that you both can agree on, then take it into court together and have a judge legally enforce it. That will be the most cost effective way to have things taken care of for now. Contact an attorney locally, some will do an initial consultation free of charge and you can find out if they know of a legal way to have the two week visitation enforced since it is agreed, so that you can protect yourself.

I think that her sending him on the plane would prove that it was her intention for him to be with you but I am not sure what all problems she may want to start with you if any

I think to get a court order joint custody thing you would have to go through her court. I do think there is an electronic thing that you can do so that you wouldn't have to actually be there for the filing or hearing.

Right now the visitation paper sounds like the best way to go.

I would definitely get a custody order for future protection on everything.
With such short notice I am not even sure it would go through by the time he is here with you.

I think that her sending him on the plane would prove that it was her intention for him to be with you but I am not sure what all problems she may want to start with you if any



Basically I don't want her saying " he kidnapped my son" 3 days into his stay ( example) even though we both agreed to this visit both on the phone and through email. I booked the flight ( round trip) on the dates that she agreed with and sent her all the information regarding the flight departures and arrivals.

Yeah I understand. I think as excon said that he is your son your name is on the birth certificate, plus you have the emails and stuff.

So hopefully for now that may be good enough especially if it is only a two week thing

Again , thank you all for the responses. It was very informative and made me realize that I need to have a "contract" of some sort with her on visitation that can be legitimized by the courts. I will be talking to her to work up a schedule that we can get a judge to sign off on so as to protect both of us. But for now I am giddy with excitement once again at the prospect of seeing him again after all these years. Again , thank you very much.

I hope you have a really nice visit with him and can have him as a part of your life now to some degree. Lacking a relationship with his dad may even be why he is rebellious.

Good luck to you, please continue to use your visitation rights.

As a young man, your son needs you in his life.

This is getting a little too complicated for what it really seems to be to me. If your worried about her charging you with kidnapping then have her drop you a note that has been noterized at her end that you have the child for this 2 week period that your talking about. If later you want something on a reguler basis then that's the time to ask for a modification. As of right now you should still have joint legal custody of the child and its just a matter of clearing the visitation aspect is all.

Often times when child support is calculated there must be a order for visitation so you can calculate support. Now it can be 0% physical custody for the one paying but it's a base to determine the custodial parent.

This is getting alittle too complicated for what it really seems to be to me. If your worried about her charging you with kidnapping then have her drop you a note that has been noterized at her end that you have the child for this 2 week period that your talking about. If later you want something on a reguler basis then thats the time to ask for a modification. As of right now you should still have joint legal custody of the child and its just a matter of clearing the visitation aspect is all.

Often times when child support is calculated there must be a order for visitation so you can calculate support. Now it can be 0% physical custody for the one paying but its a base to determine the custodial parent.

Without anything other than a child support order, how are you determining he has joint legal custody. He has not seen the child in nearly twelve years and has only had telephone communication with the out of state child.

Basicaly i dont want her saying " he kidnapped my son" 3 days into his stay ( example) even though we both agreed to this visit both on the phone and through email. I booked the flight ( round trip) on the dates that she agreed with and sent her all the information regarding the flight departures and arrivals.

This cannot happen. The ONLY way you might be charged with kidnapping is if you took the child and did not inform the custodial parent where you too the child. Since he is going to be living at your residence, which I assume the mother knows the address of, then there can be no charge of kidnapping. So stop worrying about that.

The waiver of DNA testing you signed was liklely an acknowledgement of paternity. When the court accepted that you were acknowledged as the legal parent and you probably have joint LEGAL custody.

Now, as to not seeing your son for 12 years, that will work against you if you go to court for any sort of visitation schedule. The court will wonder why you waited so long.

But, if the mother voluntarily allows the child to visit you have no worries. You do not need a signed permission slip or anything like that. Though proof that you gave the mother the plane tickets would be good to keep.

Without anything other than a child support order, how are you determining he has joint legal custody. He has not seen the child in nearly twelve years and has only had telephone communication with the out of state child.

Its an assumption Im making because he didn't say his rights were taken away. He may not have visitation as far as set periods but if he were to lose legal custody then he would have nothing to stand on with this child. I think you can see the logic in this line of thinking.

Without anything other than a child support order, how are you determining he has joint legal custody. He has not seen the child in nearly twelve years and has only had telephone communication with the out of state child.

I agree with Califdad. The courts are not going to order child support unless a person has been established as the legal parent. Unless the court specifically removes legal custody from one parent there is a logical and reasonable assumption they they have joint LEGAL custody.