View Full Version : Do all paths eventually lead to God?
Tj3
Jul 10, 2009, 07:27 PM
when in doubt i guess the answer is to walk out. I think Jakester had it right...standing up for Christianity and what Jesus said takes courage!
Yep - it seems to be fewer and fewer of us who are ready and willing to stand on what God said.
Tj3
Jul 10, 2009, 07:31 PM
What gets me is that people get mad that Christians believe they are the only ones that go to heaven yet on the other hand they will complain ''what do I want to go to heaven for it sounds boring''. I wonder why people who are not Christian get annoyed that they have to go through Jesus yet they reject Christ yet they dispute Christians claims about non Christians not getting to go to heaven.
What is it they want!?
Yep, and they get mad when we simply point out what scripture says because we are saying that they are wrong in believing that there are many ways - but they think nothing of ripping apart Christianity with nothing more than their opinion.
homesell
Jul 11, 2009, 04:48 AM
Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.
N0help4u
Jul 11, 2009, 05:41 AM
If it says you have to spread the rep it means that you have to give others more greenies first then you can come back and give tj the rating.
Tj3
Jul 11, 2009, 06:16 AM
Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.
Thanks!
Nohelp4u is right - I believe that you must give it to 5 other people before giving it to the same person a second time. I run into that problem all the time with certain people who keep giving good answers (Nohelp4u, ClassT and yourself are three who often give good answers where this happens).
Tbask04
Jul 11, 2009, 06:39 AM
I was on a thread last nite that I was accused of hijacking...I apologize to anyone who thought so. ANYWAY, I was speaking to people who call themselves Christians and realized I wasn't even on the same page as they were. I do NOT believe that all paths lead to God and I do NOT believe that God placed his spirit in each of us. I do NOT believe that he has written his spirit on our hearts.(.i dunno what that even means? ) I can't find any scripture to even suggests such a thing. I believe the Holy Spirit indwells each believer in Jesus Christ. I don't go by what I feel, I only go by what the word of God says. We got on the subject because someone was on the Christian board looking for God and questioned what he had been taught .
I was surprised to see that someone who calls themself a Christian, advised the OP to read read read all different types of material from Hindu's, Muslims, wiccan...whatever! This was weird to me. When You have truly found the Living God through Jesus Christ our Lord....aren't you suppose to lead them to him through HIS word? In other words........ This is Jesus Christ speaking....
I am the way
I am the truth
I am the LIFE
No one comes to the Father BUT by ME! John 14:6
That is the only Christianity I KNOW. Help me out. Do you as a Christian believe other paths..(other than the Finished work of Christ)..leads to the Father?
I am a born again believer. I agree with you. The word speaks of the state of so called believers in the last days. Giving themselves over to certain doctrines that confuse and depart from the ways of God. Seducing spirits brought on by itching ears that desire a way to please their flesh instead of the Will and commandments of God. You stand firm on the Bible in which you believe. It is your faith that will keep you. It is His grace that will sustain you. It is His spirit that will guide you to the truth. And in the end it is Jesus that we will have to stand before and give an account for our beings. We all are running in the race, but you run as one who will receive the crown. The wheat must grow with the tare. The sheep with the goats. In the end He will separate those that are His. We know His voice. Do not be deceived. Man is appointed to die and then judgement. Hold on to What you know is right. He is the way the truth and the life . NO MAN GOES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. He is the Gate! God Bless and keep you...
sndbay
Jul 11, 2009, 06:58 AM
Yep - it seems to be fewer and fewer of us who are ready and willing to stand on what God said.
Yes and in reality we that know the word, and the working of salvation by God's hands here on earth. We can instead remain stedfast in HIS truth that is written. From all that God has shown in scripture, people will be permitted their choice by delusion given in the reaping of their actions and hearts. As it was shown and spoken of in verses such as (Ezek 7:26-27, Amos 8:13, Ps 74:9).
I believe more and more lies will be taught as man continues to follow man instead of following Christ. And too, some lies will be taught in HIS NAME as the book of revelation exampled in John's vision of the churches.
Repent, and hold stedfast faith in Christ as the only way. Those that are kept by God's power through their faith in Christ Jesus will see salvation. ( 1 Peter 1:5 )
N0help4u
Jul 11, 2009, 07:02 AM
Exactly man decides if he wants to accept or reject God. He thinks he can make excuses that man wrote or altered the Bible or that God accepts all people no matter what but whatever excuses he wants to make in the end he wants to blame God for his choice to reject God.
God doesn't turn us away. We decide that on our own by our beliefs and actions.
tickle
Jul 11, 2009, 07:53 AM
Isn't it weird that "the system" lets me give greenies to anyone I choose, yet continually blocks me giving TJ3 the thumbs up? It's almost like "the system" lets their personal beliefs help keep Tom from reaching expert status that he deserves.
The amount of greenies one has doesn't have anything to do with 'expert status'. I had expert status and chose to have it removed. And what expert status would you think he would request, homesell. All he need do is request. I think it would be a grand assumption to be called 'christianity expert'.
Tick
excon
Jul 11, 2009, 08:19 AM
NO MAN GOES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. He is the Gate! God Bless and keep you...Hello:
So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't going to make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.
excon
N0help4u
Jul 11, 2009, 08:32 AM
So as a Jew do you live for God and the Jewish faith or do you leave God out of your life?
I believe that SOME in different religions can be saved because God KNOWS their heart and they go according to what they know but if you reject God or live for your own desires then God judges accordingly.
God does not reject us we reject him
Our life style and actions reflect it.
*The Bible does say the Jew first and then the gentile but I don't know the details on how he decides when it comes to Jews other than what I have just said.
excon
Jul 11, 2009, 08:37 AM
I believe that SOME in different religions can be saved.Hello Saph:
Cool. Pearly Gates, here I come.
excon
N0help4u
Jul 11, 2009, 08:42 AM
excon agrees: I knew YOU'D let ME in.
I'll try and sneak you in the back door :D
classyT
Jul 11, 2009, 09:56 AM
Hello:
So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.
excon
Ex,
Sure a nice Jewish boy like you can make it! We WANT you there... more importantly that practicing Jew you spoke of wants you there. ;)
classyT
Jul 11, 2009, 10:00 AM
excon agrees: I knew YOU'D let ME in.
I'll try and sneak you in the back door :D
I'll help you guys but with my luck we'd all three get caught and thrown out. :D Ex is always gettng me in trouble anyway... ( just teasing).
Better yet.. hows about coming through the proper Door the right way. Hmmm?
450donn
Jul 11, 2009, 10:11 AM
Not totally sure I understand the Jewish relationship with the Father. I mean, are they automatically let in simply because they are Jewish? Because I do not see where they have to accept Christ.
But, guess this needs to be another thread? So please forgive me if I repost it on a new topic.
classyT
Jul 11, 2009, 10:13 AM
Not totally sure I understand the Jewish relationship with the Father. I mean, are they automatically let in simply because they are Jewish? Because I do not see where they have to accept Christ.
But, guess this needs to be another thread? So please forgive me if I repost it on a new topic.
450donn,
I was teasing around. NO one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ. Any Jew can come this side of the cross, as long as he comes like the rest of the church... accepting Christ as savior and Lord.
Note: anyone's thoughts are welcome though
N0help4u
Jul 11, 2009, 10:14 AM
If they reject God and live like a heathen then no they wouldn't have an ez pass. I really don't know either other than that.
classyT
Jul 11, 2009, 10:16 AM
Nohelp,
I think there are people who believe that but I can't see anything in the word to back that up.
Tj3
Jul 11, 2009, 10:20 AM
Hello:
So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.
excon
What you say is right, but you missed one key point.. Jesus was both man and God.
Tbask04
Jul 11, 2009, 05:46 PM
If not for the jews, There would not have been an oppourtunity to be grafted in. I support CUFI. I know you guys are His chosen nation. You are the natural birth seed of Abraham. I am the spiritual seed of the same by faith. I have the upmost respect for your people. Its not my job to change what you believe. Its my job to walk by the faith which I choose to. Its not a matter to mprove whose belief is right or better. That will be solved when He comes. I am to work out my salvation. So in love, You believe what you must, but I can not deny my beliefs what a jewish carpenter did for me,you and all mankind way back on calvary... In love, that's what he calls us to. Love God,Love one another, And serve the world. Not judge it,not fix it , & by all means not to condemn it. But to pray for it always.
I realize this is anathema to most fundamentalist Christians but, yes, all paths lead to God.
By "paths", I don't mean some of the more bizarre things like the cults that make the news every so often but other non-Christian religions and philosophies like Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, etc., etc. all leading to God. Jesus himself, after all, was a Jew.
The Christian Old and New Testaments can be selectively cited to dispute this, but they can also be cited to support this. All depends on how one interprets. In a series of books of almost a million words written over a long period of time by different authors, interpretations will necessarily vary. Just consider the different ways on these pages between Catholics and Protestants, and even among Protestants.
Each path often has its own Scripture which its adherents believe as strongly as Christians believe theirs. Who can say which is more true? To simply declaim that Christianity is the only path is based on a kind of uncritical belief that is rarely examined. And, even more troubling, is the tendency to "prove" Christian Scripture by citing the Scripture itself - an irrational method comprising a logical fallacy.
This seems to be threatening to some Christians and the reason why is another question entirely.
One choses to believe what they chose to believe. Why is it so important for you to question our beliefs? If we sre living a life of love, not judging, not condeming, not punishing, not forcing you to do anything, why should we not be able to express our beliefs. The world has always expressed theirs to us? We are called to love God,love one another, and serve the world. By any means necessary... and if we have to,even use words. Love yo, not hatred. They're extremist in every area... Love is the key.
To not feel what is right, to only follow rules read, is that what Jesus would have done? Why were we given both brains and feelings?
My friend, one can do a good thing right and not be doing the right thing good... Christianity is not about a bunch of rules. Its about a relationship. One that was broken, that has now been repaired. When you entered into your relationship, I'm sure there were things you did that your other half didn't care too much for. Once you saw that they didn't, you naturally stop doing those things they found unpleasing. Probably out of love. Well, that's a christian's M.O. with God. You come as you are. When you find out that some things are unpleasing to God, you naturally with the revelation of the spirit of truth, begin to stop doing the things that are unpleasing to the one you love... Its not legalistic, don't stop doing anything you're doing right now to come to Him. But after long, if you really try to get to know and love Him, I guarantee you won't want to do certain things anymore. What have you got to lose? You don't believe right now anyway? Dare you to try... (smile)
Athos, you can't get mad with persons that point out what's in the scripture. You can only chose to disagree with it. If the bible makes that statement,it is what it is. But for you to try and tell those striving to live a standard when you aren't living any standard how to interpret their beliefs is fallacy. Acts of love can never be justified with hatred. In the end its not up to us to try and prove who is right. My belief says none of us are. That's why my faith lies in the jewish carpenter who was right. What about u?
Hello:
So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.
excon
You too have the choice before you.. not because of your heritage,but of your free will. He didn't die for one people, He died for all... All means all. So the choice will always be yours..
excon
Jul 11, 2009, 06:26 PM
You too have the choice before you.Hello T:
What?? So, if I choose to believe what your GOD believed, I'm going to hell? Why don't YOU do the switching? Wassa matter? The religion of your GOD ain't good enough for you??
excon
Tbask04
Jul 11, 2009, 06:33 PM
Ive always found it interesting when Christianity is taught with the fear of that "curse"... or with the promise of the "reward".
I would like to take a peak into a world where God said to his followers that they must love and obey Him and by doing so they would be eternally damned to Hell. And all the non-believers would go on to a Heaven where they would spend eternity.
The point being that they should love their God regardless of the reward/punishment. THEN, we could see who the REAL Christians are. Not really man. Altering the standard set by the authority of salvation of ones belief isn't salvation at all. You can always do what you want and let life be what it may. But you can't tell those striving to live a life that pleases the God they choose to love how they should do that. I isn't trying to change nothing about you. Do what you do. I can't judge you man. But there's no way you who isn't living any standard can try to judge those that are? Love God, love one another and serve the world. The judge will do all the judging when He comes. If you're right, look at the 3 statements of my life... If the bible is right? Look at your defense to the judge...
homesell
Jul 12, 2009, 04:23 AM
If a person is asleep in his apartment and the building catches fire, It is our duty in love to warn them and try to help them escape. This is why Peter preached to the Jews. Sometimes the sleeping person curses or gets mad at you for trying to wake them up. Sometimes they will deny there is a fire. Sometimes they will say or think I'm enjoying this dream I'm having, why not wait until just before the fire gets here to my apartment and then I can enjoy the dream AND escape from the fire.
Penn, of the illusionist duo Penn and Teller is one of the most famous outspoken atheists in the world, yet, even He himself said, "A person that truly believes Christianity, hates his fellow man if he refuses to at least try to tell him about what the Bible says about Jesus. Those are the Christians I repect. That's love from their point of view. They are consistent with their beliefs.The ones that merely point their fingers, judge me, and condemn me I have no respect for."
N0help4u
Jul 12, 2009, 10:18 PM
galveston disagrees: How could books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, and Paul have been written centuries after the time of Jesus Christ?
That puzzles me too. I would love to hear the answer to that one. I understand they are saying the books and writings were compiled and chosen at that time but still the writings were the disciples in the long run.
adam7gur
Jul 12, 2009, 11:14 PM
I was not always a Christian.I mean I was born and raised a Greek Orthodox but I did not KNOW Christ, I was simply following tradition.
My path was outside Christ, my life was surely not under His blood,my name was SIN!
But that path did not stop Jesus to find me.
Now , whenever somoene asks me directions to the Truth I can only point to Him.
That does not mean that I believe that there is no hope for someone who walks his own path.
I assure you, it is n ot the path that counts, it is the heart that God examines!
Now ask yourselves,what was your path before He found you?
Did you do everything right and made Him find you?I doubt that , I believe that there came a time that you realized that what you did was wrong and then He came to you.
At what point of your path where you standing when He found you?
I was covered from head to toe with dirt.Was I any better than a Muslim,or a Buddhist,or a Hindu,or you name it?I was the worst human being on earth.
I was no better than a Satanist,because what I did with my life was not what God wanted me to, but what sin,Satan's child wanted me to do.
So I would be very careful touching a subject like this one and once again I say that I thank God with all my heart that this is not up to me but ONLY up to Him!
arcura
Jul 12, 2009, 11:32 PM
Athos,
I believe that EVERYTHING goes back the creator.
What He does with it is His choice.
I also believe that He gave to us Holy Scripture we call the bible as a set of instructions to follow.
Jesus is nor Just in the New Testament. The Old refers to Him and even predicts His coming and what will happen about and to Him.
Some of that was written thousands of years before He arrived.
Taking the bible as a whole it is had for me Not to believe what is says considering all that is written and the times of the writing.
I do believe that no matter what path a person takes in life it will lead to God.
But each of those paths end up before the judgment seat of God.
I also believe what Jesus said, that He IS the way, the truth, and the life.
That tells me that Jesus Christ will be the one who decides what will happen to each person and about what he/she has done in this life.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Tj3
Jul 13, 2009, 05:50 AM
I was not always a Christian.I mean I was born and raised a Greek Orthodox but I did not KNOW Christ, I was simply following tradition.
My path was outside Christ, my life was surely not under His blood,my name was SIN!
But that path did not stop Jesus to find me.
Now , whenever somoene asks me directions to the Truth I can only point to Him.
That does not mean that I believe that there is no hope for someone who walks his own path.
I assure you, it is n ot the path that counts, it is the heart that God examines!
Now ask yourselves,what was your path before He found you?
Did you do everything right and made Him find you?I doubt that , I believe that there came a time that you realized that what you did was wrong and then He came to you.
At what point of your path where you standing when He found you?
I was covered from head to toe with dirt.Was I any better than a Muslim,or a Buddhist,or a Hindu,or you name it?I was the worst human being on earth.
I was no better than a Satanist,because what I did with my life was not what God wanted me to, but what sin,Satan's child wanted me to do.
So I would be very carefull touching a subject like this one and once again I say that I thank God with all my heart that this is not up to me but ONLY up to Him!
Adam,
People have become saved while in cults, while in Nazi concentration camps, and other ungodly place.
What that tells us is that God can work in the hearts of men despite those situations - it is not to say that all paths lead to God.
adam7gur
Jul 13, 2009, 06:21 AM
Tom
I hope you understand that I never meant that I can do whatever I want and at the end enjoy God's Kingdom.
I only said what you also said that I am 100%convinced that God can find us no matter what our path is because He looks for the heart.
The thief on the cross, what kind of a path did he have,but that did not stop Jesus to find him.
That's all I said and I will add to that if I can be found , so can everyone!
galveston
Jul 13, 2009, 11:18 AM
John 1:11-12
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(KJV)
How can you refuse and offer like that?
0EntitY
Jul 13, 2009, 11:36 AM
The right path leads to the "realization" of God. Jesus at the time was telling people, "Ye are Gods", and,
" Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."
I go by what Jesus himself said and not what preacher Bob says Jesus said. There is a big, big difference...
Tj3
Jul 13, 2009, 11:44 AM
The right path leads to the "realization" of God. Jesus at the time was telling people, "Ye are Gods", and,
" Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."
I go by what Jesus himself said and not what preacher Bob says Jesus said. There is a big, big difference...
In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.
galveston
Jul 13, 2009, 12:34 PM
Hello:
So, a nice Jewish boy like me ain't gonna make it, huh? If we're so wrong, how come you worship one of us. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew - a practising Jew. The Last Supper was a Sedar.
excon
You are correct, it was a Sedar.
I assume you read the Torah?
But I also assume you have not done much study of the New Testament? I would not expect the average Jew to do so.
John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
(KJV)
Here we have the words of Jesus telling us that the Torah points to Him. There are many things in the OT that are types of Christ. (Eg. The brass serpent put up by Moses)
Back to the Sedar:
Matt 26:26-28
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(KJV)
For the first time ever, the meaning of this meal was revealed.
I do not claim to understand exactly how the Sedar is done, but Jesus revealed what the elements represented, to wit, His Body and His Blood.
Maybe there is a Rabbi out there who can further enlighten us on this subject.
Ex, I hope you will consider this as from a friend rather than as an adversary. (As I usually am.):)
arcura
Jul 13, 2009, 10:19 PM
Gaverton,
Through the last supper (Seder) of Jesus he became the sacrificial Lamb of God.
Thus He brought the Passover of death to all believers.
He institutes the New Covenant of the Passover from the old.
It is often referred to as the Christian Passover.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
arcura
Jul 13, 2009, 10:20 PM
Gaverton,
Through the last supper (Seder) of Jesus he became the sacrificial Lamb of God.
Thus He brought the Passover of death to all believers.
He institutes the New Covenant of the Passover from the old.
It is often referred to as the Christian Passover.
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred
adam7gur
Jul 13, 2009, 11:29 PM
In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.
Not accurate!
N0help4u
Jul 13, 2009, 11:34 PM
... and what is your explanation?
arcura
Jul 13, 2009, 11:52 PM
adam7gur,
I'm going to be gone for a few days.
Keep up the good work.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 01:12 AM
Nohelp4u
Scripture goes like that..
John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because thou, being man, makest thyself God.
(They accused Him that being a man He made Himself equal to God)
34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law, I said: You are gods?
(Who is God calling gods?)
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken:
(and not whom God sanctified because Jesus seperates those two possibilities by saying)...
36 of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, say you: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?
Tom said that those people tried to elevate themselves to be gods but this is not accurate because those people accused Jesus of doing so, as a blasphemer and therefore wanted to kill Him because that was the punishment of a blasphemer.It is not logicall then for them to elevate themselves to gods while knowing that this would make them blasphemers!
N0help4u
Jul 14, 2009, 04:45 AM
I think original posters do intend to be asking for a Christian Biblical answer but then people want to give their point of view and it turns into debate.
I don't see why they don't take debates and start them on the members discussion boards rather than arguing on the OP. Many of them go so way off topic to boot.
It happens on the relationship boards as well.
JoeCanada76
Jul 14, 2009, 04:58 AM
I was originally going to send this as a private message but decided that maybe everyone would benefit.
Contrary to most of the posters, this is NOT a discussion board or a chatroom. It is the "ask me help desk" where people that have questions about Christianity are supposed to get answers - about christianity or what the Bible has to say about their specific questions.
If they want to chat or have discussions, there are plenty of other places to go like "politically correct answers" or "what non-believers think" "ask those that don't have a clue" or everybodys favorite, "All I know I learned from watching Mtv"
If you are a reader of the posts, all these totally different answers under the name of Christianity can only confuse. If you don't believe the Bible and believe what Jesus said, please don't answer in the Christianity answers section, feel free to ask any question you like, and save the discussion for the discussion groups and chat rooms.
I know this post itself is a violation but it absolutely had to be said.
I agree Homesell and your absolutely right.
It had to be said because many people get lost in this whole debate when it should not even be debated or chat about.
This should not have been a private message and Homesell you did the right thing by bringing this to everybodies attention.
tickle
Jul 14, 2009, 05:47 AM
homesell and Jesushelper, I so much agree to your point of view regarding this thread, which has gone off topic a few times (lately happening in the 'tomatoe' thread), the very informative thread regarding our Joe and a few others.
This particular thread is going around in circles !
You are all great guys, don't get me wrong but this is frustrating, tuning in and thinking there is something new on a particular thread and finding out we are talking about something entirely differrent yet again !
Now I am sort of off topic
Kindest all,
Tick
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 06:21 AM
In John 10:34 the people that he was referring to were unsaved (John 10:26), and were unjust judges because His references to Psalm 82. He was therefore speaking judgment against those who tried to elevate themselves to be gods, and who felt themselves worthy to judge Him.
Not accurate!
Adam,
Your saying so does not make it so. I would challenge anyone to check out what scripture actually say in this regard. Check out John 1:26 through to John 10:35. Check out Psalms 82. It may not be what some people want to hear, but it is the word of God.
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 06:26 AM
Nohelp4u
Scripture goes like that..
John 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because thou, being man, makest thyself God.
(They accused Him that being a man He made Himself equal to God)
34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law, I said: You are gods?
(Who is God calling gods?)
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken:
(and not whom God sanctified because Jesus seperates those two possibilities by saying)...
36 of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, say you: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?
Tom said that those people tried to elevate themselves to be gods but this is not accurate because those people accused Jesus of doing so, as a blasphemer and therefore wanted to kill Him because that was the punishment of a blasphemer.It is not logicall then for them to elevate themselves to gods while knowing that this would make them blasphemers!
Adam,
Clearly they failed to understand that they were blaspheming or otherwise they would not be condemning Jesus, who was God in the flesh for calling Himself the Son of God.
Jesus was pointing out the irony of them calling themselves gods, while condemning Him for calling Himself the Son of God. Jesus referred to Psalm 82 which is a condemnation of unjust judges, who scripture calls "gods" in this reference. Jesus uses this reference because these men (gods) are also unjust judges. Judging Him falsely.
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 09:43 AM
Adam,
Clearly they failed to understand that they were blaspheming or otherwise they would not be condemning Jesus, who was God in the flesh for calling Himself the Son of God.
Jesus was pointing out the irony of them calling themselves gods, while condemning Him for calling Himself the Son of God. Jesus referred to Psalm 82 which is a condemnation of unjust judges, who scripture calls "gods" in this reference. Jesus uses this reference because these men (gods) are also unjust judges. judging Him falsely.
I have a question then!
Why is God called God of gods and what kind of gods are those, 'cause surely those gods are not false gods 'cause God is not a God of idols!
Unknown008
Jul 14, 2009, 09:49 AM
I would say that those 'gods' refer to the people or things that people call as gods, to show them that He is the supreme being.
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 09:52 AM
I would say that those 'gods' refer to the people or things that people call as gods, to show them that He is the supreme being.
I wouldn't say that because God has nothing in common with those gods.It is like you are saying that He is the God of things that we call ''gods''!
He is the God of Truth, He is not the God of idols or something like that!
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 09:56 AM
I have a question then!
Why is God called God of gods and what kind of gods are those, 'cause surely those gods are not false gods 'cause God is not a God of idols!
He is God over everything, whether they be false gods, leaders, those who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else.
If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:
Isa 44:8
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
NKJV
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 10:02 AM
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psalms 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psalms 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalms 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psalms 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
In other words God says I made you gods , because He says I have said but you shall die like men because you do not judge well.
People choosing to die like men because they do not judge well, does not mean that God did not make us gods!
He did made us but we chose differently!
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 10:07 AM
He is God over everything, whether they be false gods, leaders, those who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else.
If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:
Isa 44:8
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
NKJV
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 10:10 AM
If you say that the other gods are not false gods, then you effectively become a polytheist, believing in many gods. Scripture is clear that there are no other gods:
So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!
Unknown008
Jul 14, 2009, 10:14 AM
So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!
No, no, no. You're now going through a different subject; the Holy Trinity.
Jesus is God,
The Holy Spirit is God,
The Father is God,
But, Jesus is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit,
The Father is not Jesus nor the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus nor the Father.
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 10:21 AM
So I suppose then I am a polytheist also if I say that the Son of God is also God 'cause that would make two of them!
If you were to deny the trinity it would. That is why the doctrine of the trinity as described in scripture is important.
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 10:24 AM
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!
Read the context.
Mark 12:18-27
18 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man's brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife." 24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."
NKJV
This is a debate that He had with the Sadduccees who denied that there was any resurrection of the dead. It has nothing to do with whether there are or not false gods.
Unknown008
Jul 14, 2009, 10:25 AM
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
False gods,leaders who think themselves high and mighty or anything and anyone else, are dead , but God is God of the living!
I think Jesus said that because 'God of the Dead' sounds rather scary and it is sort of 'God likes death' which is false. God of course want us to be alive.
Tj3
Jul 14, 2009, 10:26 AM
In other words God says I made you gods , because He says I have said but you shall die like men because you do not judge well.
Seems to me that you altered / added some words there to make it appear that God made them to be gods. It is dangerous to alter God's word. God does not even imply that He exaclted them to be gods, nor indeed anyone.
People choosing to die like men because they do not judge well, does not mean that God did not make us gods!
He did made us but we chose differently![/QUOTE]
galveston
Jul 14, 2009, 10:58 AM
According to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, those gods (plural) can be applied to magistrates. (Rulers, people in charge.)
That is about the only way you can make sense of this.
Jesus said in effect, You are in great authority, but you will die like any other men.
And since you accept this definition applied to you (gods) why do you say I blaspheme if I claim to the Son of God?
adam7gur
Jul 14, 2009, 10:15 PM
You made your point, I made mine, end of story!After all this is not the subject here.
danielnoahsmommy
Jul 15, 2009, 04:02 AM
But Adam,
that's the whole point here. It doesn't matter if someone gets answers, we are only here to discuss endlessly on this discussion board about trivialities that don't really matter. It almost gives our lives meaning.
Since you are not looking for answers homesell why do you keep posting questions?
Fr_Chuck
Jul 15, 2009, 05:22 AM
Homesell,
Well first this is not a discussion board, this is the Christian area for a question and answer.
If you want mindless chat, go find a area for that.
I have issued you a waring for argumements, deleted some of your posts and closed this thread.
Please correct your purpose for asking questions on here if you wish to continue to do so on the question boards.