My sister's boyfriend just filed for joint custody of their 4 month old son. The thing is that they live together, they also own the house together. They just came from a vacation together. This comes as a total shock to the whole family.

His reason for doing this is that he thinks it's unfair that she can nurse the baby and that she's the one who gave birth to the baby, and that if she leaves for a long period, the baby needs her to eat (his words, not mine!)

So how will this work in California? It was a total shock to her. She is still very surprised by it as we all are. We all thought he was a great guy, but not anymore.

Thanks,

Janis

What? They live together and he's filing for joint custody? Isn't that what it's called when the parents are living together with the child? :confused:
Since they're already sharing custody I don't see what else could be done. Its not like the court could force your sister to stop breastfeeding to make it "fair" for the father or anything ridiculous like that. I'll be surprised if he isn't laughed out of court. If I were her I'd be scratching my head and wondering if I really wanted to stay though

It is possible that the judge will throw the case out if they live together, but then this is California.

They will be asked to work out a parenting plan that will show the times each will have the child.
But joint custody does not mean always equal time, there is joint legal, and joint phsycial time.

Living together, the time the baby is asleep and he is home will also be his or her time, and so on,

Perhaps his having to wake up and do all the feedings a week straight may change his mind.

Sounds like thy need some serious counseling

what? they live together and he's filing for joint custody? isn't that what it's called when the parents are living together with the child??:confused:
since they're already sharing custody i don't see what else could be done. its not like the court could force your sister to stop breastfeeding to make it "fair" for the father or anything ridiculous like that. i'll be surprised if he isn't laughed out of court. if i were her i'd be scratching my head and wondering if i really wanted to stay though

Yeah, we are scratching our heads too. Totally weird. They do own the house, even way, way, before the baby was even born... I'm thinkin' he's on drugs or sniffin. Paint or something. Just doesn't make sense.

Asking for overnights and weekends for a 4 month old infant and they FREAKIN LIVE TOGETHER..! Some people are just plain ole' crazy!

It is possible that the judge will throw the case out if they live together, but then this is California.

They will be asked to work out a parenting plan that will show the times each will have the child.
But joint custody does not mean always equal time, there is joint legal, and joint phsycial time.

Living together, the time the baby is asleep and he is home will also be his or her time, and so on,

Perhaps his having to wake up and do all the feedings a week straight may change his mind.

Sounds like thy need some serious couseling

I hope the judge throws this out too!

I hope that the judge sees how stupid he is, gives her full custody and then TELLS him that he has to give her money so that she can move out!! :D

He's a FREAKIN NUT JOB!!

It is entirely possible that the boyfriend is not legally established as the child's father. This process would at least do that.

Like the rest, I cannot imagine anything else changing though. As for the breastfeeding... the judge will tell him something to the effect of "grow breasts".

First, may I suggest you pay more attention to posting instructions. There is a Read First sticky at the top of the Children forum that directs legal questions to the Family Law forum where I moved this.

But I think the boyfriend is being smart. Since they are not married with a legal declaration of custody, then your sister might be able to up and leave at any time. By having joint custody formally established, the boyfriend is simply protecting his connection to the child. I think he should be applauded for making this commitment to the child.

Are you sure he asked for overnights and weekends or just joint custody? Asking for overnights and weekends is a bit ridiculous if they live together, but asking for joint custody is not.

First, may I suggest you pay more attention to posting instructions. There is a Read First sticky at the top of the Children forum that directs legal questions to the Family Law forum where I moved this.

But I think the boyfriend is being smart. Since they are not married with a legal declaration of custody, then your sister might be able to up and leave at any time. By having joint custody formally established, the boyfriend is simply protecting his connection to the child. I think he should be applauded for making this committment to the child.

Are you sure he asked for overnights and weekends or just joint custody? Asking for overnights and weekends is a ridiculous if they live together, but asking for joint custody is not.

But they own the home together. If the mother would do this, she would not have been applauded. I think that this is weird. The paternity declaration has been signed when the child was born. Something doesn't make sense. I think he is up to something. And yes he asked for weekends, overnights and joint physical and legal custody! I have read the petition. This is so odd. I mean what the hell does he want? The judge to order that they sleep in separate rooms in the home and then have the baby sleep with him on the weekends, and then order her to come in the middle of the night to the room next door to breast feed the baby for the nightly feedings? I mean what the hell?!

I mean he's always been controlling, but this is ridiculous! I personally think he has some ulterior motive and can't be trusted. She just thinks that this is part of his 'controlling personality' and that everything will be all right.

Something stinks!

But they own the home together. If the mother would do this, she would not have been applauded. I think that this is weird. The paternity declaration has been signed when the child was born. Something doesn't make sense. I think he is up to something. And yes he asked for weekends, overnights and joint physical and legal custody! I have read the petition. This is so odd. I mean what the hell does he want? The judge to order that they sleep in separate rooms in the home and then have the baby sleep with him on the weekends, and then order her to come in the middle of the night to the room next door to breast feed the baby for the nightly feedings? I mean what the hell?!!!

I mean he's always been controlling, but this is ridiculous! I personally think he has some ulterior motive and can't be trusted. She just thinks that this is part of his 'controlling personality' and that everything will be alright.

Something stinks!

I see lawyers in the very near future for them both. From what your saying owning a house makes everything OK and it doesn't. Also upon birth the mother and father of the child have very different rights until such time as it is decided in a courtroom. Now your berating the father for having a controlling personality and your sister had a child by this person ( Im assuming it wasn't rape ) so your starting to see how this all ties together. Maybe he is worried that the relationship is in trouble and should she just walk away ( which is commonplace in today's times ) then he may spend months or years not seeing his child. So label him crazy but let the courts decide.

Califdadof3 agrees: Funny how when a man wants to accept responsibility he's labeled as " crazy "

It is crazy, because they own the home TOGETHER! This is not accepting responsibility, this is something different. How on earth does a person in a committed relationship, come off a family vacation with their 2 children and then give his fiancé child custody papers for overnight visits, weekend visits, joint physical and legal custody of a 4 month old infant?

That is crazy!

Now if they DID NOT live together, own a home together, were NOT in a committed relationship, then I would be like OK, maybe this is a little more 'normal'. This is NOT normal at all! Something is not right. It's just plain ole' weird.

I personally have always thought he had womb envy even after the first child was born. He's always had this super jealousy because women can give birth and breast feed. Totally ridiculous!

But that's just me. My sister has always enabled his controlling ways. I've told her time and time again that something was weird about him but she has never listened. Now after two children, I am hoping that she will see the light. They are both well educated people with little common sense. Just goes to show that sometimes college degrees mean nothing if a person does not have any common sense.

There is certainly a possibility that he plans on relocating before the hearing. He might be covering his bases before pulling the trigger on the breakup/move. He could suspect she is planing on leaving. He could be trying to make a point. He could be full of shtuff.

There certainly is more to this story than what any of us, including the poster and probably her sister, know.

My guess - and just a guess - is that he feels he is not getting enough quality baby time. Ever try peeling a newborn out of a mother's arms? When my daughter was a newborn, about the only baby time I got was 6-7am when that was my shift for nighttime feedings.

The court will throw this out since its not a legal issue, but a parenting issue and not for lawyers and judges but counselors...

I see lawyers in the very near future for them both. From what your saying owning a house makes everything ok and it doesnt. Also upon birth the mother and father of the child have very different rights until such time as it is decided in a courtroom. Now your berating the father for having a controlling personality and your sister had a child by this person ( Im assuming it wasnt rape ) so your starting to see how this all ties together. Maybe he is worried that the relationship is in trouble and should she just walk away ( which is commonplace in todays times ) then he may spend months or years not seeing his child. So label him crazy but let the courts decide.

Hey califdadof3. I am not berating him, it is what it is. They have been in counseling for this for quite some time. He comes from a father who was very controlling of his own mother. His mother just couldn't take it anymore and left his father. But enough of that. I understand from you screen name that you are also a father. But let's call a spade a spade, it doesn't make any sense.

He is not afraid of her leaving. I have been telling him that he is controlling for years, however, he is not my partner, so what does that matter. I still thought he was an 'ok' guy, even though he was extreeeemly (yes I meant the extra eee's!:)) weird TO ME!

But this is just strange. I have guy friends and relatives that are single fathers and thank God they HAVE NOT had to go to court because they have always gotten along with the mothers when it comes to any financial arrangement and visitations. They spend summers with their children, are involved in their school life, have visitations during the week, etc all WITHOUT EVER GOING TO COURT. This is possible.. Adults can be cordial, even tempered and work together for what is best for the children without the court being involved!.

BUT THEY DIDN'T LIVE TOGETHER OR OWN A HOME TOGETHER!

That is what is weird... now can you honestly tell me that you don't think that this is strange? Seriously?

There is certainly a possibility that he plans on relocating before the hearing. He might be covering his bases before pulling the trigger on the breakup/move. He could suspect she is planing on leaving. He could be trying to make a point. He could be full of shtuff.

There certainly is more to this story than what any of us, including the poster and probably her sister, know.

My guess - and just a guess - is that he feels he is not getting enough quality baby time. Ever try peeling a newborn out of a mother's arms? When my daughter was a newborn, about the only baby time I got was 6-7am when that was my shift for nighttime feedings.

The court will throw this out since its not a legal issue, but a parenting issue and not for lawyers and judges but counselors...

We don't know what the courts will do at this point. They haven't been to court for custody. Its quite possible that he can be granted 50/50 custody of the child and the naming of the days is for the courts convinience to establish a 50/50 custody pattern.

Hey califdadof3. I am not berating him, it is what it is. They have been in counseling for this for quite some time. He comes from a father who was very controlling of his own mother. His mother just couldn't take it anymore and left his father. But enough of that. I understand from you screen name that you are also a father. But let's call a spade a spade, it doesn't make any sense.

He is not afraid of her leaving. I have been telling him that he is controlling for years, however, he is not my partner, so what does that matter. I still thought he was an 'ok' guy, even though he was extreeeemly (yes I meant the extra eee's!:)) weird TO ME!

But this is just strange. I have guy friends and relatives that are single fathers and thank God they HAVE NOT had to go to court because they have always gotten along with the mothers when it comes to any financial arrangement and visitations. They spend summers with their children, are involved in their school life, have visitations during the week, etc all WITHOUT EVER GOING TO COURT. This is possible..Adults can be cordial, even tempered and work together for what is best for the children without the court being involved!......

BUT THEY DIDN'T LIVE TOGETHER OR OWN A HOME TOGETHER!

That is what is weird...now can you honestly tell me that you don't think that this is strange? Seriously?!

Based upon what you have just said then yes I can say with confidence that its not strange at all but is a reflection of a pattern that they both are involved in. You said his mom left ( he may be thinking she will leave too ) you quote your rosey friendships that your friends experience and that's great for them. But take a look arounf this board and you will see how many moms want to cut off rights or try their best to keep the child / children away from the dads. This is one for a judge to decide. But as far as crazy.. no I can see it from his angle too.

We dont know what the courts will do at this point. They havent been to court for custody. Its quite possible that he can be granted 50/50 custody of the child and the naming of the days is for the courts convinience to establish a 50/50 custody pattern.

I meant to indicate that its not a legal issue if the previous paragraph were accurate.

I meant to indicate that its not a legal issue if the previous paragraph were accurate.

I guess with so many postings at one time it got away and jumped around a bit. I apollogize if I missquoted you.

First the fact that they own a home together has no real bearing here. Homes can be sold, one owner can buy out the other, etc.

The fact that they live together only has a bearing as far as asking for visitation. There is no need for a visitation schedule while cohabitating.

So either he is a bit nuts, or he's planning a breakup or suspect she is planning one. But, as long as they are cohabitating the courts will probably not entertain a visitation request.

But asking for joint legal custody is simply affirming his parental position before the courts. I see nothing wrong with that part.

Based upon what you have just said then yes I can say with confidence that its not strange at all but is a reflection of a pattern that they both are involved in. You said his mom left ( he may be thinking she will leave too ) you quote your rosey friendships that your friends experience and thats great for them. But take a look arounf this board and you will see how many moms want to cut off rights or try thier best to keep the child / children away from the dads. This is one for a judge to decide. But as far as crazy .. no I can see it from his angle too.

Ok, Califdadof3. I am new here and I'm glad that I have been blessed with a good marriage of over 14 years because this is odd to me. You stated that you can see if from his angle too. Which means that you can also see it from her (sisters) angle, yet you have not posted ANYTHING that leads me to believe that you see anything from her angle. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, what on earth would be the use of 50/50 physical custody when they are in the same home? Would it be normal if a married man filed for 50/50 who had no thoughts of leaving his wife and family? So why is it different in this situation?

Also, what would be the benefit of blind siding a mother, who you own a home with and you are both in a committed relationship with? I just don't get it.

When people are in committed relationships, wouldn't the person taking the other person to court have a little courtesy and let the person know... hey I'm taking you to court? And I thought that the Paternity Declaration gave the father rights.. if not then what the heck is it for?

First the fact that they own a home together has no real bearing here. Homes can be sold, one owner can buy out the other, etc.

The fact that they live together only has a bearing as far as asking for visitation. There is no need for a visitation schedule while cohabitating.

So either he is a bit nuts, or he's planning a breakup or suspect she is planning one. But, as long as they are cohabitating the courts will probably not entertain a visitation request.

But asking for joint legal custody is simply affirming his parental position before the courts. I see nothing wrong with that part.

Ok, but just like I asked califdadof3... doesn't the declaration of paternity give him legal rights? Like I stated before I've been married for over 14 years. Divorce is not an option for us, so this is new to me. But I just don't get it. I don't know if he is planning a break up ( I know she's not, even after this). But they are 'cohabitating' of course, they own the house and yes houses can be sold... but in this market:eek:! But I'm not getting the asking for visitation schedule... strange to me... because they live together. I mean... ok say he asks for joint legal custody.. which has never been denied to him because he is the legal birth father. So why do you have to ask for something that you already have?

If you are the mother and father of a child.. why go to court and ask for that? I mean me and my husband don't have to go to court to ask for legal rights to our children... it doesn't make much sense to me.

Ok, Califdadof3. I am new here and I'm glad that I have been blessed with a good marriage of over 14 years because this is odd to me. You stated that you can see if from his angle too. Which means that you can also see it from her (sisters) angle, yet you have not posted ANYTHING that leads me to believe that you see anything from her angle. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, what on earth would be the use of 50/50 physical custody when they are in the same home? Would it be normal if a married man filed for 50/50 who had no thoughts of leaving his wife and family? So why is it different in this situation?

Also, what would be the benefit of blind siding a mother, who you own a home with and you are both in a committed relationship with? I just don't get it.

When people are in committed relationships, wouldn't the person taking the other person to court have a little courtesy and let the person know...hey I'm taking you to court? And I thought that the Paternity Declaration gave the father rights..if not then what the heck is it for?

All that paternity does is say in a legal way the he is acknowlaged as the father of the child. It gives no other rights other then those to be able to fight for the child in a courtroom and to sign documents in the child's interest. It also enjoins the child to the father for other purposes like medical, inheritance etc. It has nothing to do with custody in the respect of the legal side. If your sister were to leave suddenly then he would have to go to court. The nuts and bolts of a legal document require that times be listed for custody to show in the courts eyes the relationship to percentage.
As far as seeing it from your sisters eyes I can see that to but again she hasn't spoken here. If you go into the courtroom and call him crazy you will need to back that up. Almost all custody battles involve someone who is " crazy " in the other parties eyes.

If your sister were to leave suddenly then he would have to go to court. The nuts and bolts of a legal document require that times be listed for custody to show in the courts eyes the relationship to percentage.
As far as seeing it from your sisters eyes I can see that to but again she hasnt spoken here. If you go into the courtroom and call him crazy you will need to back that up. Almost all custody battles involve someone who is " crazy " in the other parties eyes.

Well thank goodness I'm not going to court to speak to anyone. But the fact is that she is not leaving.. suddenly or otherwise. That is why this is a shock to everyone. I think that he could have at least let her know that he wanted to be 'recognized' legally as the father in the custody sense. I really don't think that she would have disagreed with it. But to just serve her with papers and they live together was just poor taste.

I know understand what you are saying about establishing 'legal' joint custody. I really appreciate you taking your time out to explain that to me. But it still doesn't make much sense for HIM to do this in my opinion.

I know you mentioned the 'rosey' relationships of my friends and family but to me that should be the ideal. I haven't read any other posts here, and I don't know any women who have tried to take children away from their fathers. But I have heard of other 'horror' stories, that seem more like novelas (Spanish soap operas) than real life.

My father had a child from a previous marriage and my brother lived with us. There was no custody dispute and, everything was cordial. Before he lived with us, he would come for visits... If he didn't want to visit, it wasn't a big deal... if he didn't want to go back home to his mom.. it wasn't a big deal... He went to school with me when he came to live with us. My father is a good dad, my mom is a good mom and step-mom. In fact his mother has babysat us (other siblings) at times when we were little. It wasn't all this court crap. "I'm gonna call the police", "I'm taking you for custody", "I wish I could give birth", "Stop breastfeeding so I can take the baby", "I need more child support", "I don't want you to see the baby"etc, etc, etc!!

I didn't say.. oh this is my 'half-brother'... he's my brother, plain and simple. Sorry for the flashback:eek: Got a little carried away with the anecdote!;)

The second thing that you stated about the nuts and bolts... why do they need to show a percentage when they both see the baby equally because they cohabitate?

Honestly, it sounds like there is more to the relationship and that it isn't as peachy keen as you believe.

If things were going so well maybe there would have been a wedding ring produced, but since things aren't well he opted to protect his rights with his child.

If he is fighting for visitation there is probably a plan of moving on that you are not aware of. Guess we will know more when they make their first appearance for court.

why do they need to show a percentage when they both see the baby equally because they cohabitate?

If you believe that the relationship is already 50/50 physically and legally, then what is the problem with a 'BOYFRIEND', not a husband, wanting the court to honor and order that. A back up, just in case policy for him.

If you believe that the relationship is already 50/50 physically and legally, then what is the problem with a 'BOYFRIEND', not a husband, wanting the court to honor and order that. A back up, just in case policy for him.


I'm the sister, not the mother. I'm married, over 14 years. So the problem for me is that they own the home together, neither one believes that marriage is a pressing issue, but are engaged, and my question is WHY is that needed?

When you are in a relationship with someone, the least the other person (male or female) could do is give some courtesy and talk to the other person about their feelings. That is what adults do.

They live together, they bought a home together, this is NOT their first child together! That is why it is strange to me.

What I just don't get is what is the use of doing this? How can this even be done (asking for visitation schedule) when you both live in the same home and sleep in the same bed?!

It doesn't make sense at all.

As said over and over we don't know that a judge will order a visitation schedule because the kid does live with him. This is a legal board not a mind reading board so asking us to tell you why he filled a request for visitation would be lilke me asking you to tell everyone why I picked the names I did for my kids (sure I know why and everyone could take a guess but no one else on here at least knows the whole reason behind it). However, because they are not married a judge can award him with joint legal custody.

Has your sister asked him why? We can only speculate on what his state of mind is. Maybe he recently made friends with a legal type who told him that he's crazy if he doesn't legally nail down his rights. We can't read his mind.

But if you browse this forum, you will see lots of threads started by parent who never bothered to legalize things until one partner left with the child or the other partner threw them out. So formalizing things is a good thing by itself.

He is probably going to leave her and is covering his butt so he can see his child after he leaves her. If that is not the case, then I don't know why he would be filing for icustody and he is silly. Let us know what the outcome is please.

Has your sister asked him why? We can only speculate on what his state of mind is. Maybe he recently made friends with a legal type who told him that he's crazy if he doesn't legally nail down his rights. We can't read his mind.

But if you browse this forum, you will see lots of threads started by parent who never bothered to legalize things until one partner left with the child or the other partner threw them out. So formalizing things is a good thing by itself.

Yes, she asked him. The only thing he said to her was, "You're a good mother and I'm filing for joint not full custody". Which of course made no sense to any one but himself.

I will keep you all posted as to how it goes. Like I said they have two children involved, but the main concern is the baby boy. He's not too interested in their daughter. I don't know if it's because she's older or what.

Maybe because he is the boy and he feels as though the boy is his heritage.

He is probably going to leave her and is covering his butt so he can see his child after he leaves her. If that is not the case, then I don't know why he would be filing for icustody and he is silly. Let us know what the outcome is please.

I will. There are two children. The first one a girl. But his main controlling focus is their son. Maybe this is only odd to me because I have not been through this. He has hounded her since they had the son but when they had the daughter, he wasn't like this. I mean he was involved, but custody wasn't an issue. They have been together for quite some time. Never even broke up. Just trying to get things together for their wedding.

I will keep you all posted until after the court date.

Maybe because he is the boy and he feels as though the boy is his heritage.

Really? You think so? Well maybe, but to me a person child is their child no matter he sex. But you could be right about that. Would you feel like that? Dispute custody due to the sex of your child? Do you know of anyone who has done this sort of thing? (Honest question, I know things can come across differently on the internet)

I am just speculating.
I know of many men that feel that way.
It shows in the family of all girls, when men end up with five girls because they haven't had a son.
I don't feel that way, but maybe that is his thought behind it.

Yes, she asked him. The only thing he said to her was, "You're a good mother and I'm filing for joint not full custody". Which of course made no sense to any one but himself.

As I have said, asking for joint custody makes perfect sense to me. Asking for visitation doesn't.

I'm also concerned about the apparent antipathy towards the daughter. Again, this is speculation, but since he didn't take this action until he had a son, it could be that he sees his son as an extension of himself. The heir to carry on his name. And that may be part of his thinking. But someone needs to take him aside and tell what damage he may do to his daughter if he doesn't treat her equally.

But we are getting out of the legal realm here and into the relationship realm. So if you want to continue that part of the discussion You can start a new thread in the Children or Parenting forums.

As I have said, asking for joint custody makes perfect sense to me. Asking for visitation doesn't.

I'm also concerned about the apparent antipathy towards the daughter. Again, this is speculation, but since he didn't take this action until he had a son, it could be that he sees his son as an extension of himself. The heir to carry on his name. And that may be part of his thinking. But someone needs to take him aside and tell what damage he may do to his daughter if he doesn't treat her equally.

But we are getting out of the legal realm here and into the relationship realm. So if you want to continue that part of the discussion You can start a new thread in the Children or Parenting forums.

Thanks for the responses. It is just a shock to both families because he didn't even tell anyone he was even going to court. It won't work to take him aside, even in the most friendly manor. If anyone even suggest things to him, he takes it as a personal attack and insists that people are 'embarking on his authority' in the home. :cool: Gag me with a spoon! He's a control freak. I don't know what's next, but I'm just worried about my niece and nephew, I just wish that he was more concerned about the both of them growing up in this type of atmosphere. Most of us do not like to say much because he may not let us come around too much... oh well.

I will let you all know what happens after court!

Thanks for everything, everybody!:)