I raised my now 23 yr old dghtr on my own. My older two(28 and 29) son and dghtr went to their dad's due to div,at 13. We have always been extremely close. I buy her cars, pay for everything. I have taken her to Hawaii, NY many times, SF. Paid for computers, redoing her college dorm each year. I take her to movies, tours, pay for eating out constantly, movies. It makes her bro and sis a little resentful, but they have their own lives and they are OK. She basically is an only child w/me.
I have out her through a lot, with one abusive marriage, one stalker, I have been married 4 times. I haven't been in a long lasting serious relationship since the abusive marriage ended. When things are bad, I leave, as it isn't healthy for she or I. Nevertheless, I have a lot of guilt, so I never say no to her. She runs my life. She gets embarrassed of me if I drink in front of people, she judges her friends and ends relationships with them also. She is fighting with everyone lately. Her best friend she got hateful with and ended a 10 yr friendship.
I have been in touch with the stalker, he says he has changed and pays for my flights, so I go visit him on the east coast. I have tried telling her, but she screams and says I am crazy. She gets hysterical sobbing and says she will never speak to me if I see him.
Well, after almost a year of not seeing him, I flew back this w/e to see him. She broke into my email and read emails that he is buying a house and wants me to move with him. She texted me told me she is moving out of my house, that I am a pathological liar, she hates me and hopes I die, that she will never forgive me or talk to me. She has lost all respect for me.
It destroys me. I feel I should have my own life and that she shouldn't judge and manipulate me. She shouldn't have invaded my privacy either. I try telling her the truth and she screams. I have lied to protect her. I feel I should be able to make my own decisions, stupid or regretful or whatever. How do I get her to listen to me, go to counseling, remend our relationship. She has always been disrespectful to me. I have been at her beckon call 23 yrs. How do I break the cycle, win back her trust and respect? Maybe it isn't possible? I am lonely and do desperate things. I told the guy I can't ever see him again. He has done too much bad, I thought maybe I could move with him one day and go on with my life, but that's not happening. I am so depressed over this. I have sacrificed so much, putting her through private school 5 yrs, her dad has never helped me.
I fear she will never have a healthy relationship with a man. She is overweight, yet quite successful and beautiful. She has never had a long time bfriend. I love her, but very angry with her.

Whoa. As somebody who has a stalker who pops up periodically, I have to say that your daughter is correct. She remembers vividly (I'm sure) the terror and fear that she went through, as well as you, at the hands of this person.

Maybe it's time for a bit of soul searching. Why does your drinking embarrass your daughter? You are probably drinking to excess if you're causing her embarrassment.

No addiction and stalker(no matter how wealthy) is worth losing your daughter to. Please listen to her and take a look at yourself.

Good luck...

Normally I would say that you have a right to your own decisions... and you do, so accept the consequences of those decisions...

You have made/continue to make poor decisions for yourself. Your daughter who loves and cares about you and you are the only family she has and knows, only wants for you to love and care for yourself in the same regard.

My mother's ex-husband is in jail for the rape of a 13-yo. My mother most recently began making contact with him again this year, I won't speak to her, because it is her choice, it is self-distructive and me not talking to her is my choice and her consequence to pay for her choice.

Your daugter is 23 years old, she should let you have your space as well as you letting her have her space, but somewhere along the way, you have to draw a line, and say its enough! You're a parent, and parents have responsabilites, your done with yours! She needs to stop whinning about what your doing! I'm not saying this to be mean to either one of you, but you have to take first step! Though it might pain her more to see that your seeing her (stalker) that's your choice! Bottom line is, I think you guys should try counciling, and maybe repair some of the relationship that's still there between you?

your daugter is 23 years old, she should let u have your space as well as you letting her have her space, but somewhere along the way, you have to draw a line, and say its enough! your a parent, and parents have responsabilites, your done with yours! she needs to stop whinning about what your doing! im not saying this to be mean to either one of you, but you have to take first step! Though it might pain her more to see that your seeing her (stalker) thats your choice! bottom line is, i think you guys should try counciling, and maybe repair some of the relationship thats still there between you??

I think you should re-read the post and your advice.

I think you should re-read the post and your advice.

Then they just need counciling!

Well, he has done some negative things. He says he has changed. My older daughter doesn't think it is smart, but says it is my decision. My youngest is judgemental and very religious, yet when she parties it is OK. She is having difficulties w/many. I hold a lot of guilt. I have made some poor choices w/men. I am hurt she broke into my mail and is so hateful and won't speak to me. She did it to her sis too, but changed her mind. Hopefully things will calm down, this happened3 days ago. I told the guy I won't see him again. To say you hate your mom and hopes she dies repeatedly is hard to take. I can't do everything her way.Its' time to make my own decisions and stop allowing her to manipulate me also. This is tough...

Well, he has done some negative things. He says he has changed. My older daughter doesn't think it is smart, but says it is my decision. My youngest is judgemental and very religious, yet when she parties it is ok. She is having difficulties w/many. I hold a lot of guilt. I have made some poor choices w/men. I am hurt she broke into my mail and is so hateful and wont speak to me. She did it to her sis too, but changed her mind. Hopefully things will calm down, this happened3 days ago. I told the guy I wont see him again. To say you hate your mom and hopes she dies repeatedly is hard to take. I can't do everything her way.Its' time to make my own decisions and stop allowing her to manipulate me also. This is tough...

My thoughts exactly! Though it may hurt as parent, but you do have control over something's? She will have to except what happened, and let past be past! Nither one of you can change anything, wish you luck!

I shouldn't have said he is a stalker. He broke into my mail yrs ago and impersonated me. He called people and said disparaging things about me. He had threatened me basically. This was 4 yrs ago. He has lied about being div. for 7 yrs. We have since talked. She knew I went to see him 8 months ago and I told her I never would. Then I decided, she is 23, I can't make up for the past, I am regretful of course. He is trying.He offered to buy me a house and take care of me. She saw all that from the realtor. He is buying the house, not me. I would not marry him. We just don't get along and he isn't good for me. My last hb was really abusive and went to jail for it. We have been div 5 yrs. I recently spoke to him. There is no way I would forget what he did to me or what my poor daughter went through knowing all this. That is why I left him.
I haven't remarried since him, nor would I.
No one can predict what will happen. Guilty parents sometimes make poor choices. Being a single parent and making all he decisions isn't easy either. My son is schizophrenic and now I am watching him. His dad raised him and will have nothing to do w/him. I have a lot on my plate. My youngest and I have never had a healthy relationship. She has been spoiled and is very selfish and judges everyone. WE need to get help.

I think the help start with you.

You are making excuses for your own self-destructive behaviors. You are dating a man, who never deserved a second chance. I still believe that your decisions effect your children and she has a right to stand against your self-destructive behaviors.

Start counseling first, face your own issues. Encourage your children to follow suit, when you have a better handle on taking care of yourself and being with a man who deserves you.

I agree. I continue to choose men who are psycho. I don't stay with them long, because they are bad for me. My daughter was in college during most of this. The man who abused me affected my daughter the most and I left him. We are talking, but it will never go further than this. We didn't talk for 9 yrs. I think my other problem is my daughter is like my best friend and I tell her too much. Like about this guy who has treated me badly and contacted my kids. I am talking about two diff men. He is black and that's another reason my daughter hates him, she is quite prejudice. It doesn't seem to matter the race, my hb was white.
I have sacrificed everything in my life for my daughter, gone way above and beyond due to guilt. I was married to their father 15 yrs, he was abusive too. My daughter was only 3 when we div. She hasn't been close to him. He has gotten better w/time. He married my best friend who was his secretary, that stings.
What do I do, stick my head in the sand and not have a life?my daughter has been in college 5 yrs, and only stayed here a year. She was intended on moving out closer to work anyway. I just pray there is a way to get help and become a happier person. I own a company (26 yrs),teach theatre to youth, have an awesome grandson, and am taking care of my son who is 29. No real joy for me. I am really distraught over my daughter. She is quite stubborn and has cut off many relationships with people this last few months. She has bad PMS and needs meds. I know she is confused and feeling betrayed. But invading my privacy and trying to run my life 24-7 is not her job either.
It is difficult to paint a picture of what has gone on my whole life, the parameters of our relationship here. But, I appreciate the advice. Their dad has pretty much done zero, doesn't help at all.

Start with counseling for you and for the time being giving your daughter some space, if you have difficulty maintain healthy functional relationships, then it's probably accurate to think that she is finding her own life as functional only when it is really dysfunctional.

Work on you first though. Good luck.

I shouldn't have said he is a stalker. He broke into my mail yrs ago and impersonated me. He called people and said disparaging things about me. He had threatened me basically. This was 4 yrs ago. He has lied about being div. for 7 yrs. We have since talked. She knew I went to see him 8 mos ago and I told her I never would. Then I decided, she is 23, I can't make up for the past, I am regretful of course. He is trying.He offered to buy me a house and take care of me. She saw all that from the realtor. He is buying the house, not me. I would not marry him. We just dont get along and he isnt good for me. My last hb was really abusive and went to jail for it. We have been div 5 yrs. I recently spoke to him. There is no way I would forget what he did to me or what my poor daughter went thru knowing all this. That is why I left him.
I havent remarried since him, nor would I.
No one can predict what will happen. Guilty parents sometimes make poor choices. Being a single parent and making all he decisions isnt easy either. My son is schizophrenic and now I am watching him. His dad raised him and will have nothing to do w/him. I have a lot on my plate. My youngest and I have never had a healthy relationship. She has been spoiled and is very selfish and judges everyone. WE need to get help.

That guy sounds completely crazy. I wonder if we have the same stalker? He sounds like a stalker to me!

Please get some counseling with your daughters.

Trust me, this guy is bat sh*t crazy. You are a fool if you get re-involved with him. Can you imagine what he could do to you if you try to break up with him? My stalker is still angry with me for breaking up with him 25 years ago. To this day, I have to regularly check the internet because he puts disparaging posts containing my entire name on craig'slist in my town. I've also received items that I never purchased (at my home) that I know he's had sent to me.

You will be afraid to leave him because of what he might do.

Your daughter said some hurtful things, but she obviously has been through a lot with you. Please try to work things out with a professional, and don't get back with that guy.

Good luck...

Yes, he is crazy. He moved back east and has pretty much left me alone. He broke into my email and had a girl call and say horrid things about me to friends. He called my daughter who is a devout Christian and told her that he wasn't bugging me, that we had had sex w/in a week, which is crazy, I was with her out of state. He would send things from my email address. He told me to watch my back because he was in the back yard watching me on dating sites. He followed me. I tried to get away, but he wouldn't let me go. He hated me and said he would ruin my rep. He ironically works for the state dept in DC and just got a national clearance. He hasn't been with me for sev years. We got re acquainted and he proclaims to have changed. He is willing to buy me anything, but is still extremely possessive and thinks he owns me. We fight constantly. He is the only one at my age that wants to take care of me and provide for me. We don't get along.
He lied to me about being div, told me he was many times. It has been over 7 yrs and he still isn't. I don't love the guy. I wanted to make a stand to my daughter. She can't run my life. I told her a lot of what happened, but she was living in the dorms, and not really involved. He also told horrid lies about my older daughter. He constantly lectures everyone, even strangers he walks up to to tell them how to do things. He hasn't raised his two kids by separate mom's, and hasn't had any long relationships. The guy is trouble. I wanted to let my daughter know she doesn't run my life. I can make my own mistakes. I am famous for giving people another chance, to change. I have caused my dghtr not to trust anyone, esp men, THAT is very sad and I feel horrid. When can I have my own life though? She is so judgemental w/everyone and instantly hates people when they don't do things her way, this isn't normal. To dissolve a 10 yr friendship, to tell her sister she isn't in the family, because she knew what I was doing. To tell me she hates me and will have nothing to do w/me and hopes I die. Not normal reactions. We both need counseling. I went for a year after my abusive marriage 9 yrs ago. I haven't remarried, nor remained in a long deal since. My ex hb and I split that long ago.
I love my daughter and we are extremely close, yet she seems to resent me and is so selfish.

I raised my now 23 yr old dghtr on my own. My older two(28 and 29) son and dghtr went to their dad's due to div,at 13. We have always been extremely close. I buy her cars, pay for everything. I have taken her to Hawaii, NY many times, SF. Paid for computers, redoing her college dorm each year. I take her to movies, tours, pay for eating out constantly, movies. It makes her bro and sis a little resentful, but they have their own lives and they are ok. She basically is an only child w/me.
I have out her thru a lot, with one abusive marriage, one stalker, I have been married 4 times. I havent been in a long lasting serious relationship since the abusive marriage ended. When things are bad, I leave, as it isnt healthy for she or I. Nevertheless, I have a lot of guilt, so I never say no to her. She runs my life. She gets embarrassed of me if I drink in front of people, she judges her friends and ends relationships with them also. She is fighting with everyone lately. Her best friend she got hateful with and ended a 10 yr friendship.
I have been in touch with the stalker, he says he has changed and pays for my flights, so I go visit him on the east coast. I have tried telling her, but she screams and says I am crazy. She gets hysterical sobbing and says she will never speak to me if I see him.
Well, after almost a year of not seeing him, I flew back this w/e to see him. She broke into my email and read emails that he is buying a house and wants me to move with him. She texted me told me she is moving out of my house, that I am a pathological liar, she hates me and hopes I die, that she will never forgive me or talk to me. She has lost all respect for me.
It destroys me. I feel I should have my own life and that she shouldnt judge and manipulate me. She shouldnt have invaded my privacy either. I try telling her the truth and she screams. I have lied to protect her. i feel I should be able to make my own decisions, stupid or regretful or whatever. How do I get her to listen to me, go to counseling, remend our relationship. She has always been disrespectful to me. I have been at her beckon call 23 yrs. How do I break the cycle, win back her trust and respect? Maybe it isnt possible? I am lonely and do desperate things. I told the guy I can't ever see him again. He has done too much bad, I thought maybe I could move with him one day and go on with my life, but that's not happening. I am so depressed over this. I have sacrificed so much, putting her thru private school 5 yrs, her dad has never helped me.
I fear she will never have a heathy relationship with a man. She is overweight, yet quite successful and beautiful. She has never had a long time bfriend. I love her, but very angry with her...
I have brought my daughter up entirely on my own, no long term relationships, except an Italian, I had for 8 years.( he had 1 soul perpose ) I have never been married, nor ever did whilst I had my daughter, up bringing in my hands only. . I wish I could have given my daughter a tiony fraction on the material things you throw at your daughter. Do you treat all the children the same or is she just spoilt rotten. Me the only thing I would buy her is a small flat somewhere, along way from you , least you won't have to listen to her sreams and rants, she needs to grow and stop acting like a spoilt bra. You want to turn round one day soon . Not when she is angry, but catch her unaware and just say, I have been thinking ," you don't like me so I think its best you move out of MY home and get your own and with her job she can save up and buy things herself which will be far more satisfying to her, and god help any man she marries!! Get her out before she turns violent andstop spending money on her, it won't change her, get her out
Good luck Lydia.. remember you have done your bit, no more ! Oh then phone her bloody useless father and tell him whatyou are GOING TO DO!! Let me know if any of this helps, seriously though cut the strings

She was planning on moving out. She works 40 minutes from here, so it is closer for her. Her dad does zero for all three kids. I raised all three until our div. The older two lived w/him in high school, then then both came back and live here since. My son lives with me. My daughter only lived with me a year, after she graduated from college.
Yes, I spoll her rotten. I do a lot for all my kids, that is why I am broke. They are grown now. My oldest thinks I messed up my daughter and that is why she has emotional roblems, due to many bad men. She and I are close, she is married and has a son. She works for me. There is a lot of jealousy, my older two lived w/their dad, so they think she is very spoiled. She wants everything her way. My oldest says, "Let mom make her own mistakes, invading her privacy by breaking into her email is wrong. You are not her boss."
She doesn't like the guy either, she just has her own life. My daughter is most angry because she hates this particular guy. I lied to her, I try telling her but she screams. I lied to protect her, which is very wrong.
I have not remarried since my div 9 yrs ago. I have been involved with bad men though and I am too smart for that. I am attractive, but also have baggage from my past.
I fear my daughter will continue to have troubles w/friendships and men in the future. She is 23 and has never had a steady boyfriend. She is still a virgin and a strong Christian. Yet, she treats me horribly. She is really struggling and I hold a lot of guilt as mentioned.
I pray things improve. I desire her future happiness. I think I am entitled to a life also and make my own mistakes. When does it end?

He sounds worse than a stalker. That is a control freak when they try and take over your life to the point of reading your mail and impersonating you to alienate your friends.
Learn to be independent without relying on a guy that wants to buy you.

You say he's the only one in your age group who wants to provide for you... are you really waiting for some man to come along and take care of you? How smart is it to "take a stand" against your daughter by getting re-involved with this sociopath? She won't see you doing anything that you haven't been doing her whole life, choosing the wrong guy.

Your words ring a bit false to me. You are using this "take a stand" excuse to be taken care of... and if you relent, you'll be deep in a trap from which you may never escape. Don't think for one minute that you will have a pleasant life with this guy. And when you finally do try to break free, his tactics will ramp up exponentially. People like him are dangerous, trust me.

He is a sociopath. I don't need a man to take care of me. I have my own business, 26 yrs. I wrote that above. I am 51, educated, attractive, well traveled. Due to my upbringing, I also have some issues. My parents were married 45 yrs until my father passed. My dad was a recovering alcoholic. He was sober 43 yrs. My mother was abusive to me and favored my sister, she was 16 when she had me, my dad was 10 yrs older and a musician.
I have always believed deep down that I am not worthy of true love. I have been to counseling.
I was married 4 times. Once to the father of my kids, he was abusive, we were together 14 yrs. Then married childhood friend, didn't know he was an alcoholic. Got that annulled. Then married a con who used steroids, married 3 yrs. Then married an extremely abusive man, 4 yrs. I haven't remarried since and don't believe I ever will. We married in 96, div in 2000. Kid's father never paid child support, he won't communicate with me and is VERY controlling. He married my best friend, secretary, they've been together now 20 yrs.
My daughter and I have been extremely close. Her bro and sis went to their dad's for yrs, then they came back to me, so basically she was an only child and very spoiled. I rarely said no to her. We traveled and I tried to make up for things. Sent her to private school, trips, all mentioned above. I stopped anything I was doing, to be at her beckon call. I sacrificed a lot!
She is trying to control me. She stays out and I don't know where she is at always. She moved somewhere, I don't know where, I don't know the people. She was in college for 4 1/2 yrs and lived away. She didn't have time to talk to me on the phone, and would say, Don't have time to talk, got to go", and hang up. She has always been super selfish, not babysitting her only nephew. I text, send emails to every show she is in. She is a singer and actress, I talk people into contributing to her college needs. I took out student loan for her, convinced my mom to lend her $4000 for breast reduction surgery. I do everything for the girl.
Yes, she is right it is self destructive behavior. He hasn't really changed. I met him while she was living at college. I took him to some of her performances, against her wishes. I have date a lot. I don't believe I can truly love someone. I lose interest in men. They fall for me and I always think the grass is greener somewhere else. I need constant attention. I didn't get any when I grew up, my mom tells me. She was 16 and I was her guinea pig.
I have some deep seeded problems.
When she is gone, she doesn't know that I am gone. I feel trapped in my own home. I can't spend the night somewhere else or she would call through the years and call me a whore and slut and tell me that Im not a Christian. She is so judgemental to everyone. I knew this would come to a head one day. I miss her and she won't do anything with me or speak to me still. I paid for her trip she is on to Washington for a week. Do you think it is best to write her a letter, I don't know is she will read it. She said he won. I dabbled into an area, that I thought I could just visit him, and not move there. He is the kind of person you have to be decent to, not hateful or mean, or he will retaliate. It is difficult to get away from someone like him. Yes, I have also talked to my ex who was abusive, but I won't dabble into that of course. We spoke, met and that is closure for me.
I am so depressed and feel trapped with my daughter. One day I pray we have a decent, healthy relationship. But it has to be on her terms. She can be quite hateful and stubborn, I have seen it with friends of hers and her sister. Her dad hasn't been involved in her life. That affects her as well.
Time will tell, I am going to counseling again. My problems are not easily solved. At my age, I am OK with being alone. It is still sad and heart wrenching.

raggedmom, have you asked your daughter if she will go to counseling with you? Are you willing to go? Even if she refuses, it might be helpful for you to work things out with a professional. You are not too old to find true love, or work on your deep issues. A counselor can help you to see that you are worthy of somebody decent. Really, as far as I can see right now, counseling is your best alternative. Even if your daughter doesn't go, a professional can help you figure out how to deal with her.

Take care...

Yes, thanks for advice. I am going. I went for a year after the abusive marriage, he went to prison and I had not contact w/him. The state paid for the counseling, that was 9 yrs ago. Funny, I have met w/him recently and he thinks it is wrong what he did to us, but has no idea the aftermath and emotional trauma his 4 yrs of abuse caused us both. He says he is in prison ministry, but still not very remorseful(if any). People rarely change.
I am going to ask my daughter. My oldest stays in touch w/her, even though she told her since she knew the truth about where I was going and didn't tell her, that she cut off contact w/her and told her she wasn't her sister, but changed her mind later that next day.
My daughter takes and judges, but doesn't really care about me as a person for years. She is so spoiled and self righteous. My oldest says it is all my fault that she is the way she is. I ask, why not also due to her dad not being involved in her life, my daughter(oldest) says no that has nothing to do with it. He cheated on me with his secretary, my best friend, but they have remained together this whole 20 yrs. I have dated many different men. I lose interest and need too much attention. I hope I can get help. I fear it is too late for my daughter. She has treated me disrespectfully for years, since she was a teen, my dad used to comment prior to his death. She is so stubborn that I think she is done for now with me. I have often thought, when I am sick and need care(like my mom does now after a stroke) would she care for me? I doubt it, although she is being good w/my mom now. We have a love/hate relationship.
My daughter says I live through her and her accomplishments, when I try to get my own life, she runs that too. She doesn't like hardly anyone I date.
I was going to write her a letter when she returns from her trip, my oldest said to wait and to let her calm down first. Your thoughts?

First thing I have to say is your daughter is your daughter forever. A man is your man as long as you want or don't want. If she has had bad experiences with the stalker then of course she wouldn't like you living or talking or visiting. She is lashing out so you can see how much it bothers her. If there was trouble before with this man then most likely it will happen again. As for buying her everything and taking her places, it comes with mother-hood. My husband and I went to a motel on Valentines day to have fun together, but I just couldn't leave my 2 year old behind. We took her and changed plans a little but it was much better than worrying about what she was doing at grandma's house! Tell your daughter you want to sit down and talk like adults as you both are. Ask her what she would like to see in your lives? Ask her to tell you without screaming what is so bad about the stalker that upsets her so much. I don't know if you feel the same but I would rather please my child than myself or a man anytime!! Don't worry about the men, worry about your daughter, she's yours forever and having her hate you forever isn't going to get you through life any easier.COMPRIMISE. Don't bring up all the things you bought for her or places you've taken her you're a mother that's what your for!! Maybe she needs to get her own house anyway. She is 23. Help her out as much as you can because it could be your last moment to say you love her, cherish it!

She already moved out while I was gone. She is angry because I lied to her. I visited him before 8 months ago and said I wouldn't again. It gets me out of town and I have a good time. Although she is right, he thinks he owns me and doesn't know that I see other people while I am here.
I see now for myself and peace of mind and hers that this would never work. I betrayed her trust. She broke into my email unbeknownst to me, my older dghtr told me. THAT is wrong! She would disown me if I had done that to her. I shouldn't need her approval for things. She does try to run my life.
I will try to talk to her, but she won't now. I may write her a note.

Yes, thanks for advice. I am going. I went for a year after the abusive marriage, he went to prison and I had not contact w/him. The state paid for the counseling, that was 9 yrs ago. Funny, I have met w/him recently and he thinks it is wrong what he did to us, but has no idea the aftermath and emotional trauma his 4 yrs of abuse caused us both. He says he is in prison ministry, but still not very remorseful(if any). People rarely change.
I am going to ask my daughter. My oldest stays in touch w/her, even though she told her since she knew the truth about where I was going and didn't tell her, that she cut off contact w/her and told her she wasnt her sister, but changed her mind later that next day.
My daughter takes and judges, but doesn't really care about me as a person for years. She is so spoiled and self righteous. my oldest says it is all my fault that she is the way she is. I ask, why not also due to her dad not being involved in her life, my daughter(oldest) says no that has nothing to do with it. He cheated on me with his secretary, my best friend, but they have remained together this whole 20 yrs. I have dated many different men. I lose interest and need too much attention. I hope I can get help. I fear it is too late for my daughter. She has treated me disrespectfully for years, since she was a teen, my dad used to comment prior to his death. she is so stubborn that I think she is done for now with me. I have often thought, when I am sick and need care(like my mom does now after a stroke) would she care for me? I doubt it, although she is being good w/my mom now. We have a love/hate relationship.
My daughter says I live thru her and her accomplishments, when I try to get my own life, she runs that too. She doesnt like hardly anyone I date.
I was going to write her a letter when she returns from her trip, my oldest said to wait and to let her calm down first. Your thoughts?


I would let things simmer down a bit, and ask if she is willing to see a counselor with you. Perhaps she needs to air why she disapproves of all your dates, and you need to air her abusive attitiude towards you.

Clearly, there are a lot of issues at play here. You can only do your best, which is to try to mend and maintain a relationship with your daughter.

Don't worry about who will care for you when you're older... live your life now. Hopefully, you will find the self-esteem necessary to find a nice guy. You really need to work through some of this stuff... don't take for granted that you will always need unlimited amounts of attention, or grow tired of men. You may find a very nice person who will appreciate you for who you are.

Counseling... try it with your daughter, or if she won't go, try it yourself again.

Take care...

You've been married 4 times, one was abusive, you've dated a lot, lied to your daughter, and rekindled a relationship with a stalker.

I think I'd be very upset if I were your daughter too.

Maybe she was waiting for a settled life with you, and you spent so much money on material things to appease your guilt, that you missed the damage that you've done.

I don't know how much a person can be expected to tolerate in a relationship, whether it is a parent, wife, husband, sibling, friend, etc. That you have given her stuff, does not make up for the lifestyle you chose, that she was obligated to live with.

It would have been extremely difficult to get used to a mother who went through 4 marriages. Imagine having to accept a new man/father figure in your life, only to have that relationship end too. Then to find out that the stalker is back in the picture is perhaps the last straw.

She is old enough to live her life without drama, if she chooses to. Maybe your relationship with her will eventually evolve into a relationship again, but she does not 'owe' you one.

Imagine if it were her, that had lived your life for the past 21 years. Walk a mile in her shoes and you will see a different perspective.

As to counselling, I think it would really be a good idea for you for two reasons. One is to understand why your daughter is the way she is, and learn to accept her decisions as an adult, and two, why you are still making choices that you expect others to accept, and can't understand why they don't.

To an extent I agree w/you, it is your opinion with info provided.
I have not just sacrificed w/.monetary things. I have dropped everything I have done, left relationships due to my daughter as well. She has been my everything.
I made a poor choice in thinking the stalker had changed. He hasn't done anything strange. The bizarre things he did was 4 yrs ago. As mentioned she wasn't living with me during this time, she lived in college.
Her dad hasn't done much for her. She lived w.me and the older two got into all kinds of trouble at their dad's. They returned here to me(where they live now, one with me and the other nearby.)
My daughter was 3 when her dad left us, and began to be involved with my best friend, his secretary. I didn't leave, he did. You can't change the past. I have apologized numerous times. My daughter is an adult now. It would be advantageous for us both to return to counseling. I have been instrumental in my daughter's acting and theatre life. We directed together and I go to the school she teaches at and help her too. It is almost like she is in control of my life and guilts me into things. She had no right to break into my email. She did that to her best friend too. I think I deserve a life now, and shouldn't need her permission or interference.
I want my daughter to be happy. I don't think it is necessary to judge me. She has always disrespected me and needs to work on that.
I haven't been remarried since my div 9 yrs ago. Am I expected to be alone, not date? She is 23 yrs old. I understand that she is upset because I didn't tell her where I was, but I have talked about the whole thing repeatedly and she didn't want to hear it.
I have learned my lesson. NOTHING is worth losing your daughter over. We have an unhealthy relationship. I can no longer be at her beckon call either. Forgiveness and mercy, understanding is needed here.
I will continue to pray and I am going to counseling again. I hope she will join me or go on her own. It is a mess and very hurtful. I would do anything to take her pain and hurt away.
But, you have NO idea how ,much love and support I have given my daughter. I raised her on my own with no help, and it hasn't been easy. I supported all three of them, their dad hasn't supported me in any way.
All I can say is, it is sad, very very sad...

REN6, You must be an experienced counselor, as you give very sound advice. Thank you... We are really hurting here...

If the relationship is so unhealthy as you say, and considering your daughter is 23 years old, an adult, and successful (I presume she can support herself), I don't understand why you both cannot live your own lives.

It's like you invite her or allow her the same status as a husband, or mother to you. You seek her understanding and forgiveness, but I have to ask you why. Why should you be in a position to explain yourself to your daughter in the first place, and why have you allowed her to run your life in that way.

I am not saying that you haven't contributed to her feeling responsible for your well being. When you allow an adult child to be an equal 'partner' instead of an independent person, it forms an unhealthy bond. She feels responsible for you (ie the stalker), you feel responsible for explaining yourself.

You don't have to answer to your daughter, or anybody else for that matter. She does not have to answer to you either. You both need counselling as I said, not to mend the existing relationship, but to move on and establish a line in the sand, allowing you both to live your own lives.


As to counselling, I think it would really be a good idea for you for two reasons. One is to understand why your daughter is the way she is, and learn to accept her decisions as an adult, and two, why you are still making choices that you expect others to accept, and can't understand why they don't.

When I said the above, that is really not a knock against you, or something you need to defend. I realize you are hurting, and you will continue to hurt because you have lost your footing with her.

Instead of looking at this as a negative situation, turn it around and take this opportunity in counselling to learn how to be independent, strong, and in control of just one life- yours. Learn not to allow other's (your daughter) opinions, actions, and attitudes ruin your plans, and decisions.

She on the other hand, needs to learn the same thing. She cannot judge anyone but herself, and she too has to take responsibility for her own life, without judging you.

If you allow her the privilege of being so intertwined in your life, neither of you will have independence from each other. To go to counselling to learn how to draw that line in the sand will be good for both of you, but if she won't go, I really hope that you do.

I suspect that you are somewhere in your 40's, and you have a lot of living to do. To break this bond, and re-establish mutual respect within boundaries, will be a good thing for you.

I do appreciate how you are hurting. I have two 'kids' in their 20's, and it is hard to let them go, and it is hard to encourage them to be independent, but to be healthy adults they have to live their own lives.

I don't mean to be harsh, but your happiness and your future are on the line here. You are certainly entitled to privacy and to make decisions based on what you want to do. You do not need your daughter's permission to see any man you choose, or do anything you want to do. Part of the problem I think, is that you do think you need her in that capacity.

If she has 'issues' with her upbringing, that is separate to the issue of your life now. We all have issues with our childhoods don't we? But should that be an excuse to be smothered, or allow ourselves to be smothered, because we are guilty to some degree?

I can't force my daughter to see things clearly and see her part in this disaster. I made a decision and knew that it would one day fly in my face. I made a decision to go and enjoy myself out of town for 2 days. Now she doesn't live with me, so won't know when I am gone. I can and will make my own mistakes.
My oldest blames me for everything, the way my dghtr has turned out. I also believe that their dad not being involved in her life affects her view of men.
I wish I could erase the past and poor decisions I have made. It isn't easy being a single parent. My ex never backs me on anything.
I thank you for your advice. I am 51 by the way ;) I am not at a loss for dates or men who fall for me. The problem, I don't trust men and can not allow myself to love. I need counseling to feel worthy of love.
I can't force her to talk to me. I was waiting until a little time goes by and write her a note.
I can't be blamed for everything. It was a poor choice to think the guy had changed. I don't love him and don't want to be with him anyway. I just wanted to get away and relax.
My mom is angry with her for being so disrespectful, esp considering I revolve my world around her. We are having family events and my dghtr wants nothing to do with me.
This is all so upsetting and I have been extremely depressed.
Thanks for your counsel. ;):eek:

I think with maturity, she will eventually understand, somewhat, what it means to do your best, and still make mistakes. You do the best you can at the time; somebody said that to me once, and it makes sense today too.

To look back and keep torturing yourself, isn't going to give you the freedom to really enjoy your life without that emotional baggage. It is liberating to really free yourself, and realize that all you can do is go forward, and refuse to keep visiting times that cannot be changed.

I realized that about friendships too. It was always me being the one 'doing' and 'giving', and friends that I had had for years (that I never felt really good about being around- should have been a clue), counted on me, and the friendships were unbalanced. When you think about that, balance, then you realize that party 'a' has to come down a bit on the teeter-totter, and party 'b', needs to rise up a bit.

When that doesn't happen, your needs for friendship and companionship are not being met, so what's the point. It is liberating as I said, to make choices to be with people who are positive and happy, and not dragging their messes into your daily life, that you have not, and will never, be able to fix.

I write a lot, and it is cheap, effective therapy lol It is amazing that you can feel upset and depressed and not quite put your finger on it. But when you 'process' it, and write it all out, you will be amazed at what you see on paper. I have done that many times for different circumstances, and it is the only way that I can put these things that I cannot let go, to rest. I cry my eyes out, drink tons of coffee, and keep going as long as it takes.

You may find this helpful during quiet times where you feel the need to reflect and understand things. Not to mention, it really helps with the guilt too.

Hold your head high, you are a good person who's made mistakes, just like the rest of us. Find ways to let go of the past and enjoy your life every chance you get.

Don't let anybody hold you back.

Wow, am I hurting! My oldest talked to my youngest and she said she needs a sister to rely on, not someone to lecture her. My oldest tells us both what she thinks we do wrong, she minces no words, whether others agree or not. Is she always right, NO.
My dghtr says I never apologized(I was advised here, by my family etc) to wait a bit until the storm calms. Today I wrote to her. I told her I was sorry, that I wanted counseling and would she agree.I told her we are mother and daughter and I am deeply hurt that she walks away, says she hates me and disowns me. I told her it was wrong to break into my email. That God commands us to forgive and love and respect our parents. I told her it was immature and childish to break relationships and friendships off when people don't do things her way. She is eing too self righteous. I told her that our parameters need to change, to mother and daughter. I also commented that I have been at her beckon call, monetarily and in all ways supported her, dropping everything for her and that she takes me for granted. I told her I am so sorry she is hurting and that I lied to her, lying is never right. I tried to tell her and she screams.
Well, we shall see what happens.
Today, my oldest tells me the people she moved in with are her family. She has known them two years, the lady has cheated on her hb and he on her. Now she is pregnant and has a toddler. Another man also rents a room. I don't know the people. They are 35 yrs old. My dghtr is 23. She doesn't tell me where she lives. She took me off Facebook. She would spend the night elsewhere and not tell me where she was, yet she runs my life. Anyway, she says to my daughter, they are my family now. They have been better to me than my family. I am done with you and mom, you won't hear from me.
Wow, what can I do?
I told her I hope she knows she was deceptive in breaking into my mail and that I hope she is sorry. That I am hurting terribly and that I love her, and will always be there for her. I told her it isn't normal to break off relationships when people disappoint you, you work on them, that is the mature, loving thing to do.
She also mentioned that I shouldn't have broken up with the last guy, that I have had good guys and choose the bad ones who hurt me. She was devastated, I understand that. But, I have to make my own decisions. This is a mess and I am getting extremely depressed. I feel helpless...

You have to stop torturing yourself.

If our children and their words and actions as adults is disrespectful, seriously one-sided, argumentative, controlling and self-centered, why on earth do you put so much stock in it.

Because they are your children is not an excuse to accept this behaviour. All of you are adults now, and should be living independent lives, at least as far as your private lives go.

What you continue to teach your 23 year old is that you do not have the final say in anything you choose to do or say in your own life. You are apologizing to her for what 'wrongs' you have done, and she keeps hurting you, and you keep allowing it.

If you were to go one week, just one week, in allowing yourself NOT to be caught up in this drama, and putting a stop to all the conversations, that would send a clear message that you aren't going to play the blame game anymore.

While you love her, the more you feed into your need to have a normal relationship, the more authority you give her to trash you and your life.

If she were 14 I'd say she's going through teenage angst, like they all do.

But, she is a 23 year old woman, and you are a 50 year old woman, and both of you need to bury the past, and get on living your lives. She knows you will always be there for her as you've said, and so that gives her permission to treat you the way she does, because no matter what you will bail her out.

Time to put some age appropriate conditions to this relationship, starting with you. Decide that you don't need to coddle, beg, compromise, plead or take any further emotional hits.

What will happen if you don't take your life back- another 10 years of the same?

True, so true. Thanks for the advice.
My oldest dghtr says no one knows the hurt you have caused my youngest though and you are responsible for why she turned out this way. You tell her the guy is crazy, yet get lonely and weak and want to go back to him, THAT isn't normal. She may be right.
She called her sis back and apologized, saying she was over emotional and now wants to celebrate her birthday with her this week.
We all realize this stuff, dramatics, wailing, sobbing, going ballistic when she has PMS.This isn't normal. Her sis had it also, but had a child and doesn't anymore.
Now my dghtr is thinking of going w/my sis, dghtr and I to Vegas, as we had planned a month ago. I am still coddling her and allowing her to think she can run my life.
Her poor older sis is in the middle of this nonsense. I am SO stressed out.
If she think those people will be there for her when she rants and raves while PMS's and putting her self righteous standards on them, she is kidding herself and needs to grow up.
Thanks for the advice... ;)

It is tough to have your daughter have zero respect for you.
I got a return letter tonight. My daughter says you have lied to me my whole life. You have done things for me to cover up for what was going on, and I am not stupid. I am od enough now to see the dysfunction. I have tried protecting you all my life, seeing men over and over do horrible things to you. It is like sitting in a house on fire and refusing to leave.
She said I am leading a double life, seeing a guy she likes and talking to the bad guy, that I spoke of so harshly, and that is some of the reason that she hates him. I explained(or tried to) that the guy she likes breaks up w/me all the time. I didn't see the bad guy she hates for 8 months. Although I talked to him on and off. I told both guys I was still talking to the other. I tried being honest.
I thought it was time to take a stand and do my own thinking. So, went to see him again. Then she went beserk and hateful. Well, I shouldn't have gotten involved in his tangled web, because he is horrid and sick and I tried being nice, because he does a lot for me. But, we have never gotten along and I don't trust him. It would never work. I know that. I am done.
My daughter said she doesn't trust me and she refuses to be around such unhealthy behavior, that is destructive, She said she loves me, but can't stand for me to be so weak and not love myself as much as she does. She is pretty mature in some ways.
I told her there still have to be parameters, and more respect.
She did apologize for breaking into my mail. She though I was a better person, and shouldn't have talked to both guys. I trust no mean and have to get hekp for that.
So basically she doesn't respect me and I haven't told her the truth about things.
I have a hard time being faithful and really allowing myself to love men.
My parents had a very dysfunctional marriage. My dad was a recovering alcoholic. He loved us immensely, yet was weak and hated confrontation. My mom ran the show. My mom was a rageaholic, and was abusive to me. She gave up school and had me at 16. She resented me and was too young to handle me. She resented my dad and I being so close. We were involved in music together. My mom had a stroke and we all take care of her now around the clock. I have forgiven her and love her.
I have lost my daughter's respect and that is a very sad thing and irrevocable. I told her I refused to be disrespected anymore, I did the best I could and I asked her to forgive me. She said if I ever spoke to the guy again, she wanted nothing to do with me.
I told her I am going to counseling again and she should try it.
She has hidden a lot from me too, her sis tells me things she does. Kissing lots of guys at bars,when drunk, having a guy being semi-intimate here when I was gone. Throwing up in the front yard drunk several times. She professes to be such a great Christian.
My oldest loves telling me that it is my fault my daughter is the way she is. Her dad also endorses that. Even though, he has had little to do with her in her life.
She says she doesn't trust me and can't rely on me, that I was leading a double life. Telling me he was crazy and then talking to him and seeing him. I have a lot to think about. I have a lot of remorse and need to do some serious changing. I am under so much stress with my lazy, schizophrenic son I took in again(he is 29) and my daughter, work, my grandson, my mothers health condition and care, financial loss. Sometimes it is too much. I like to date and like being single. I try to lead a Christian life. I have some values and standards. Because I didn't get remarried and stay with one man I am sure has been tough on my daughter. I am a mess.
Trying to be an adult and handling my daughters constant judging is tough on me.

Well, new problem, diff situation.
My dghtr moved out abruptly while I was gone visiting this guy. Slowly we mended a little.
That was 6 months ago. New episode. She has had problems with her best friends and sev others. She is judgemental and hypocritical. My dghtr borrows $, when I ask when she is paying it back, she yells,"That is why I hate being around you, you repeat yourself."
She refuses to go out when I drink, she doesn't think I should. My oldest went out w/ a bunch of us for a friend my ages birthday.My oldest goes out w/me all the time. I told my dghtr I wouldn't hang out w/her or her friends.She said, promise you will leave early, and not drink a lot." I said OK. Well, unfortunately I did and a young guy hit on me and she hated it. We were all having fun , singing kareoke, I compliment my dghtrs, they both are singers. My dghtr left, and then took all her stuff from my house, drove home an hr after drinking and hasn't really spoken to me since.My older dghtr drank too much and she still talks to her, in fact she spent the whole week at her house. My youngest professes to be a Christian, yet she parties and gets drunk occasionally and it is OK for her. I never partied, drank, until my kids were raised. I have never used drugs, nor do I drink often. I figure my kids are raised, I should be able to do what I want to.
I have sacrificed, dropped everything for my dghtr, take her on trips, do everything for her. I raised her basically as a spoiled, only child, as her older sis and bro went to live w/their dad when teens.
My older dghtr doesn't care what her sis thinks, or if she is judged. She think it is my fault my youngest is like this. She is so opinionated. She has broken off friendships with many and says hateful things.
Anyway, I told her I was sorry and that I loved her and to come to thxgiving. She finally relented and came, hardly spoke to me. She hasn't spoken to me since.
I was so looking forward to her visit, as she has only stayed her 3 times since the episode w/the guy 6 months ago. She hates me again. I apologized, but am tired of her resenting me so much and trying to run my life and cut me off. She has always been disrespectful, unappreciative, and takes my $ constantly. I am going to NY in 2 weeks w/both my dghtrs, and she owes me $, I don't want to bring it up. I seem to disappoint her in everything I do. When is it my time to enjoy my life and not have to answer to her? She can be so hateful and mean. She claims she is bi polar now. How do I set boundaries, everyone had a good time but her that night. She is 23, my oldest 28 and I am 52. My friends who I spent time w/at the birthday party is 55. Everyone drank, had fun, but my dghtr who made a scene and now hates me. My dghtr has never been in a serious relationship, is beautiful, successful teachers, and overweight. I try to encourage her and support everything she does. I don't say anything about her weight. I love her so much. She says I bring up her bi polar episodes. I said I was sorry I embarrassed her. How can I mend things? Stay away? Set boundaries? She is rude, mean and really hasn't liked me for a long time. She is selfish and only thinks of herself. She is an actress and very dramatic in all things.I hope I can salvage things. She is always telling me who to talk to, date, what to wear, she criticizes me constantly. She has broken up sev relationships. I really don't think I did anything so horrible. Help!

It seems that things have returned to pretty much where they were, sadly. Just thinking of my mother, and I never would have had the nerve to tell her who to date, how to behave, what to wear. I would have had my ears boxed. It strikes me so odd that she would keep crossing those lines without thinking twice about it.

The relationships that continue to invade your privacy, upset your life, errode your confidence, and trample on yourself esteem and quality of life is really so obviously wrong, and harmful to you in so many ways.

I wonder too if standing your ground is just too much for you to handle right now. It's easy to say that you need to take charge, and set boundaries, but you have to live with the consequences of that, and I can see where giving in is easier than planning long term changes right now. It has taken a long time for things to get this bad, and it won't change for the good overnight, nor will it happen if you do not have the tools and the mindset to help you. It is an enormous task, and I don't envy you.

I agree with much of what you say. How you characterize your daughter(s), and the obvious crossing of many boundaries that never should have been crossed. There are no predictable changes in site, without some hard work ahead. That has to start with you.

Because this involves so much, and has gone on so long, I would really like to see you get yourself into counselling first. I wouldn't even tell your daughters you are going. Make this the first decision that isn't up for discussion and/or ridicule. Invest at least six sessions with a counsellor skilled in cognitive behavioural therapy, CBT, if you can. This type of therapy is specifically geared to identifying problems, learning how to change thinking and behaviours, and effectively manage your life in more productive ways. This can be a godsend in helping you see that you can take charge, make changes, and stop going down the same destructive path over and over again. It's all about change, and my opinion is that it has to start with you.

I worry that how things are for you now, without any changes, will only get worse, and you will start to physically destroy yourself under this stress. You know you deserve better. In all honesty, I really think things have gone too far for an overnight fix. You need therapy to turn your life around. I repeat- your life. That is the only one you have, and the only one you have any control over.

Your happiness has to start with you. Just care for yourself right now, and really set your mind to go in a different direction. You just don't yet have the tools to do so, but when you do, it will all be worthwhile.

I hope you'll keep posting as things progress.

My 23 yr old dghtr ruined another holiday. My dghtr throws the guilt trip, div parent card again. I raised her, my older two now 28 and 29 lived w/their Dad at age 13. We all get along well now. My oldest and I are best friends and she works for me. She thinks my youngest and I have a sick relationship.
I've been the most drop everything, sacrificial Mom, for all my kids, esp my youngest. She is successful, teaches, grad from college, is beautiful, yet overweight. She has never had a real relationship w/man. She abruptly ends many friendships if she judges them to be out of line, drinks too much, parties, doesn't like their bfriends, etc. She is a Christian, yet herself smokes and gets drunk, it is all in HER timing.
She's gotten involved in ending several relationships for me. I drop everything for her. I take her on trips throughout yr,paid for private Christian schol, buy her clothing, dorm provisions, going out to eat. She's so selfish and spoiled. My oldest says that's my fault too.When she asks for $ and tells me she will pay it back on certain date,she doesn't. She yells , "This is why I hate being around you, you repeat yourself. I already told you I will give it to you when I can."
She lived here for a yr after college and refused to give me rent $. I am a single parent.
She got so angry that I was seeing a man she hates, that she moved out while I was out of town. She broke into my email and found out. She said "You are not my Mom, I don't respect you,you lied to me, I hate you and I will never speak to you." I constantly apologize. I told her I can't do things the way she wants. I am 52,educated,active, attractive and do not want to be alone forever.
This time on Thsgiving, we went out the night before. My friend(54) and her family were meeting at a place my dghtr's bff(one she didn't speak to for months also in the past). She told me she hates seeing me drink, not to get drunk or hang out w/her friends. I said OK.
I hung out with my friends, hers didn't even show up. My older dghtr drank, everyone did, we all had a blast, except her(23).She left she got so angry, took all her things at my house and drove an hr home(she had a couple drinks). She refuses to talk to me. She said she wasn't going to Thxgiving. We all begged her to go, she relented, I apologized again. I said I was just having fun. Sorry I embarrassed her.
She constantly brings up the past that Ive been married too many times, etc. I did the best I could. Never drank or partied at all while my kids growing up. I understand some of what she is saying. She doesn't mind if her sis does same things. Should I let her run my life? She says she is bi polar now and I bring up her episodes. I told her again today, I cried and spent all w/e after Thxgiving alone crying. I thought it would be so nice to spend time w/her during holiday. She is replacing my older dghtr w/me it seems. How do I set boundaries? Is it OK for her to judge everyone and cut ties w/people so abruptly? She says hateful things to people. She doesn't apologize. Should I just leave her alone, let her live her life? It hurts so bad. We used to do everything together and were very close. She is not too close to her Dad.I think at my age I should be able to enjoy myself and not try to please her. Her judgement teliling me how to dress, who to date, etc. is too much. I am hurt and confused.

listen for a 23 year old daughter, you are doing way too much for her. You shouldn't be paying her. And if she promises to pay, make absolutely sure she does. She won't survive in the real world if she is under the impression that mom will bail her out. She has to learn the value of money, learn to spend it wisely and not expect family members to pick up her slack. Don't let the guilt trip thing get to you. She is apparently playing on your emotions and its working. You are the mother and she is the daughter. You know better than she does. I imagine that you don't want to see her sink to the ground but if you pick her up that is what you'll be doing for the rest of your life. And if she is meddling in your relationships tell her to back off. You have slaved away for 23 years, its time for you to have her let go and live your life.

I appreciate your comments. She says when she has gone out with me the last few times I have drank too much. She gets mad because young guys hit on me. Her not speaking to me, yet telling her sister everything hurts me, because I am w/my oldest a lot. I think secretly she resents that I doo too much for her sis. She chose to live w/her Dad and he was broke and abusive. We all get along OK now though. My oldest says she will grow up and appreciate me as she does. I can't take the blame for everything wrong in her life, I am so tired of that. I can understand she doesn't like seeing her mother drink too much. It always seems to be something I am doing wrong. She just really doesn't like me, it hurts. She resents me.

I'm sure she doesn't resent you. She is just used to getting her way and when she doesn't she blames it on you or her sisters. You are a grown woman, you should be allowed to drink as much as you want. She is isn't she? I think she is having problems dealing with the fact that her mother isn't slaving away for her or her sisters. That her mother can have a life. She is obviously playing with your emotions and that isn't right. It is obviously hurting you. And like eleanor roosevelt said "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." and she is right. She may blame you for the divorce, who knows. But she has no right to treat you the way she is.

I agree. I have heard that Eleanor Roosevelt comment, so true.
She tells her sis off too, but she is 28 and doesn't care if her sis doesn't approve of what she does, or how much she drinks. She says it isn't pleasant to see her mom drunk. I understand that. It didn't seem to bother anyone else though. We all sang kareoke and I tell everyone how beautiful and talented both my daughters are. She hates that too. You would think I was a prostitute and a horrible person. She sures see me from a negative perspective. Yet, as my older dghtr says, I not only lend her $, I change all plans when she wants something. Ive left dates, work, whatever if she needs moral support or help. When she refuses to be around me for holidays, or come stay at my house, yet will stay w/her sis and tell her everything now, not me... it hurts.
We all are going to NY Fri for a few days. I paid for most of that. I hope we all get along and there is no drama. She says she is paying me back, it's been over a month. She gave me half. Well, it is tough to just act like I don't have a dghtr.

Ive been div from her dad for 18 yrs. I was remarried and he was an abusive psycho. When things weren't good, I left relationships, esp for her. I have put her through a lot with diff men. I haven't remarried and have been single now 9 yrs, I learned my lesson.

If your daughter grew up with her abusive father, then she has learned to be abusive. This is not something she is going to outgrow. This is who she is. I think you have to be the one to set limits. They are your limits, which you set for yourself.

For example, you might tell yourself, "I will not let my daughter tell me who I can date." My point is that it's a limit for you. You don't need to chase her down and get her to change her behavior (because she won't anyway). It's up to you to figure out how to keep from being manipulated and hurt by her. If it means creating some distance, that's okay. You are only on Earth for a while. You deserve some peace now.

She says I refuse to change. I am attracted to psychos and she bring up her bi polar episodes. How hurtful that everything is my fault! She isn't even sure she is yet, but nevertheless she says I try to live through her. All kinds of things. It is my fault she can't be in a relationship, because Ive been through so many bad ones.
Her dad ended up leaving us in 1990, he is now married(after living together 13 yrs) in a tumultous relationship, w/his secretary, one of my best friends. She says at lest he stays with same person. I said after 3 marriages(one annulled) and some failed ones, I am particular and won't stay w/wrong person who abuses me or I don't get along with. I am particular. So her dad wasn't even involved in her life, yet she respects him(she knows he was abusive, so was my 2nd). I will never remarry. Everyone says I am so attractive, and nice etc, but I don't trust anyone.
The episode w/the guy she hated when she broke into my email and told me I wasn't her mom anymore, that I had no self respect to go back to guy she despises, was 6 months ago. We haven't gotten closer, she is still distant and lives w/ a family, pays rent, I have never been to place she lives at. She tries to hurt me at every turn. She can pay them rent, yet refused to pay me, when she knows I needed it. She takes advantage of me. She says, "No one wants to be told repeatedly that they do so much for you." I told her problem is, you have no gratefulness or appreciation, She doesn't give me choice to take her on trips, or buy things, she guilts me into it.
I can't make up for the past. I haven't been a horrible mother. I am told continually that my kids have always taked disrespectfully to me and I do everything for my kids. They do not disrespect their dad, yet he doesn't nag. My youngest rarely sees him. How is that he never paid c/support and was abusive, runs off with his sec after 14 yrs marriage, leaving the family.He is the good guy?

raggedmom , it's not wrong for you to want someone in your life. But right now I think you should concentrate on you and why you choose the men that you choose. It's true that you've made some mistakes in your life but then who hasn't. YOur daughter need's to grow up and take some responsibility in her own life. She's not a child anymore. If you've done the best you can for your children then that's all you can do. I would recommend that you figure out some of the unanswered question's in your life. Then you'll be abel to lead your daughters. Stop stressing about pleasing her. Your oldest is right. Let life show her that all you have to do is love her. Don't buy her anything else, or take her any where. She needs to respect you if for nonething else but you being her mother.

Good advice. It isn't easy to live with knowing you used to be cloe to your daughter and do everything together and now she blames me for everything wrong in her life.
In spite of my marriage issues, the past is the past. I can do nothing to change it. I still think overall I have been a really supportive, sacrificing mother who loves my kids tremendously. I have led a moral life and am a good person. Have I made mistakes, sure I have. But I still feel I deserve respect by my children.
My daughter has turned out so spoiled and selfish. She has these issues of abruptly ending firendships too.
She says I feel sorry for myself and think that I am a victim. Maybe she is right?

It seems like your head is filled with all the things your daughter says about you (and the things you say about and to her). Your posts are a constant back and forth reenactment of your conflict with her.

You need to get her out of your head. You may be able to be close to her some day, but for now, you need to spend less time with her, and even more important, stop thinking about her. Instead, start planning your own life. Every time you begin brooding about the things she says, switch the conversation off and start thinking about something positive. It will be hard at first, but it will get easier.

Get her out of your head.

Thanks. You give great advice. I really thought things were getting a little better and then this happened.
She still does ask me to get together so I will pay for things. But as my older dghtr says, I repeat the sick habits, and to get her to like me, I think she loves me and wants to be around me, but really I don't think she does. She doesn't enjoy my company and that hurts me. We were so close through the years, it was she and I. Her dad didn't really involve himself in things. He didn't pay support.
Both my kids disrespect me, their dad did and they followed suit. When my oldest(28) knows she hurts me, she will apologize. She truly does love me and accepts me as I am, faults & all, she sees the good and bad in both her parents. She works for me and says I am her best friend, even though we fight occasionally, but it is a more healthy relationship.

I think at times my oldest is jealous the youngest got so much attn. She went to live with her Dad, and he was broke, and abusive to both my older kids. They have been back and forth with both parents. My youngest was like an only child. I paid for private Christian school, took her on lots of trips and dropped everything for her.
I thought I did a good job raising her, but now her dad says, "I knew all this would come out and you would have problems to deal with." She never showed emotions and now she spews hateful words and is stubborn and holds grudges with people, me, friends, bosses, etc. She is selfish and self centered and judgemental. She places restrictions on people and when they don't meet her expectations, she abruptly cuts them off. She has made up with her best friends of 10 yr recently. She didn't speak to her either for months. She can drink and such, but is in judgement of others.
I will seek counseling again. It is expensive, but I realize that is the only way I can get some peace of mind, break the sick patterns.
I am miserable. She says I play the consummate victim and repeat the same patterns with men and will never change. Some things she says are accurate, some are harboring all the things wrong in her life or mind as being my fault. How long does one play the blaming game? Feel guilt? Can't she forgive, I guess not. I asked her that. She is one stubborn gal.
I feel bad I put her through the marriages. But she really didn't have a horrible childhood at all. She doesn't know what appreciation or gratefulness really are all about.
Yes, she works full time and got her degree and teaches. She is in a financial mess and is quite overweight now. Talented and beautiful, but still never had a relationship with a guy, she is 23.

It's so strange that the children we bring into this world, turn into people we don't know as grownups. It is also hard to look at adult children, as adults, their own person. If they weren't ours, and were introduced to us later on in life, would we like them? Probably not.

I think that's okay too really. They are who they are, and no matter what 'programming' they had as a child, and despite all the advantages they had, they are contrary to everything they should be.

At this stage of the game, you are entitled to live your life without undue influence from your daughter. For whatever reason she justifies her behaviour toward you, this is dragging you down, and the quality of your own life is affected.

I really think that that is the only thing that you can work on. You cannot change her, you can't change anything in your past, and you cannot predict your future. For today, you have to learn how to live your life for yourself, and nobody else.

Easy? Absolutely not. Letting go is never easy. Whether it is an adult child, or boyfriend, or parent, or friend. But at some point there is so much toxicity in the relationship, and changes are never going to be enough to please her, maybe it is time to just let go of this relationship, and establish a new one with her.

Let her live her life, and you live yours. A good counsellor will be able to help you do that, and handle the guilt at the same time. You'll probably have your moments when you wonder if it isn't easier just to live life as it was, but in my opinion, you will both have a healthier relationship when the rules change, and you take your own life back.

I also think it is okay to say that although we love our children, it's okay not to like them too. In your case, your daughter has to be judged as an adult, and judged by her behaviour. She is also able to change, and she will if she wants a better relationship with you.

Your life is your life now. What you do with it is up to you. Keep things as they are, or work with a counsellor to learn how to set boundaries, and gain a perspective on just how much influence your daughter has on you, so you can free yourself from it. By doing that, you are also expecting your daughter to grow up and be more accountable for dealing with her own problems and anger. That's a good thing.

I hope you'll post and let me know how you're doing.

I am trying to take my life back, but it will take time. Thank you for taking the time to give your input, it helps more than you will know!
We go to NYC my dghtrs & I Fri. I pray it goes well. Just today my dghtr called and said"See, I put the $ in your account, so you can't ." I said thanks, but you don't need to say it like that. She took more than a month to pay me back and she knows I am broke. I nag and repeat myself when I ask when she is going to pay me back, because it is never when she says it will be. The only reason she is speaking to me is due to upcoming trip. My oldest makes her pay me back now and tells her, I pay mom's bills(she is my book keeper at work)you better pay her back, don't borrow $ from her.
Anyway, hope it turns out well and we enjoy our time there. I will not let her talk disrespectfully to me.
Happy Holidays!

I hope your trip is pleasant too.

Don't agree that you're a victim. You don't have to agree with that. I would encourage you to look at yourself as a victor. Which means with all that life has thrown your way your still here. We all have to start taking responsibility for our lives and the roles we've played. Love your daughter despite her faults. But don't love her by buying her love. Love her from within. Set your boundaries even with your children on how you'll love them. What I mean is don't let her use oh you're my mom so you have to do this for me . No you don't have to do anything. If you constantly give her things to show her love then that's what she'll think love is. Love is doing something from your heart because that's what you want to do and exspecting nonething in return. When you know better you do better. :):)

We went to NYC. Returned 1 a.m. driving alone not fun. The girls stayed 1 xtra day.
I figured out, my youngest doesn't respect me and just really wants to distance herself from me. She loves being close to her older sis, which is good.
My oldest wanted to go to sports bar and watch fball games. We had fun, I drank 1 1/2 beers and she drank 5.My youngest went to see show on her own. When she came to get us, she complained again that I talk too much and repeat myself and shouldn't drink. Well, I was enjoying myself until she started ragging on me. My response, "Omg, I didnt even drink much, your sis drank a lot, why do you care? Am I doing anything so terrible?" I just concluded that I REALLY annoy her. We had a good time overall for 3 days, she's just selfish and self centered. We did everything she wanted to do. It annoyed my oldest, as she has never been to NY. Everything is about her. She wasn't too rude to me, not bad. I am just not important to her.
She said she wasn't buying xmas presents except for kids. Then she sprawled off all her friends,(even some near my age) she was buying for. I said,"Didn't I teach you xmas is about others, not you. Why ru spending hundreds on urself and not others?" "So, u aren't buying me a present?" she went off on me and told me off. I said I really don't even want one. Your bill collectors call me at work everyday looking for you."That was about the only thing we didn't agree on. We used to be very close, traveling lots together, I bought her so many things, hundreds on trips. I waited on her hand and foot, took her to every lesson in the world, auditions, etc.It hurts that she doesn't want to be close anymore. She doesn't approve of anything I do. She still jokes about men, dating, anything to put me down. I am a joke to both my dghtrs.

NYC was fun. Couple of small glitches (I almost cried, but held back being oversensitive, or allowing her to upset me.)She spend $ like water on herself. I said "I taught you better than that I thought, at holidays don't spend on yourself, spend on others."She yelled back, I am not buying presents except 4 kids. Don't worry about it, geez!" I said, "Not even for me?" She got quite upset. She did everything she wanted to do, w/o regard to what my oldest & I wanted to do. My other dghtr got a little upset about her selfishness, as she had never been there and we begged her to go. I pd 4 hotel room 2 nights and my oldest's plane tkt, since I always pay for the youngest.
Anyway, she did buy 4 everyone but me in the end?
She also made snide comments about me repeating myself after having 1 1/2 beers. My older dghtr wanted to watch fb, so we went to a pub. She had 5 beers. She invited me & ordered my beer. "I said, geez I was having fun, we've been there few hrs while you watched a show. Did I say or do something terrible?" Her response, " She's not 50, you are."
I am SO tired of her putting parameters on what I do. It's like she is the mom. She pops my balloon when I am having fun. We walked, didn't drive, I didn't talk to any guys, she wasn't there to embarrass when I compliment her singing etc. It never ends.
She is really getting close to my oldest, almost replacing her as the mom. She is 28, youngest 23. She calls my oldest sev times a day, rarely call me anymore. I text her, she rarely responds. She says her sis is immoral at times also. She really judges everyone.
We used to be so close, she still says she can't have a relationship because of me, etc. etc. I am to blame for everything. They tell jokes about me constantly, the two of them.
All in all, I had fun. I have spent thousands on her through the years on trips, at least she paid for most of her own this time. They stayed an xtra day together, while I went back to work. My oldest told her prior to leaving," don't ruin my time w/drama", so I think my youngest maintained to keep peace.
I did tell her I am tired of you telling me what to do, I am not going to always do what you want me to, those times are over. Hope things improve. I tried to keep peace also. No drama from me.

I have been reading through all your posts, and I think that Jake is being extremely patient with you. I must admit, I felt a strong sense of impatience.

I don't understand why your life is so intertwined with that of your daughters. You all seem to judge and criticize each other constantly, each of you seems hypersensitive to any real or imagined slights by any of the others, and then it all regularly blows totally out of proportion. Additionally, none of you seem to have a sense of boundaries or of personal space.

There are SO many issues in your various posts, that it is very hard to know where to start, so I'll try and keep it really simple.

I think that you need to live a life that is separate from your daughters.

You seem to be trying to recreate a lost youth with them and involve yourself in their activities and their lives. You are their parent, not their friend and I think you need to detach from them and start living a life physically and emotionally distant from them.

Clearly they don't respect you when you participate in their social activities and they don't trust you round their male friends. So stop socializing with them. You're getting a bit long in the tooth to be going to pubs with twentysomethings anyway.

Find some people your own age to be friends with, go on trips with, have a drink with.

Your daughters now have their own lives to live. They are responsible for themselves regardless of how overweight, stubborn, hateful, selfish and childish they are. Stop interfering. Let them live their lives and make the mistakes they need to. You did.

I agree with Jake that you must go to counseling. But I also think that the dynamic may change with your daughters if you stop being so intertwined in their lives, listening to their $hit, talking about your own $hit, being involved in petty squabbles.

You're an adult now and your children are grown up. In effect, they are no longer your immediate responsibility. Cut the apron strings and get some professional help for yourself. You're never to old to learn to be a better person.

Notice I said 'person', not 'mother'.

I agree with most of what you say. I don't hit on their male friends. That's not what I am saying. There is no crossing the line with my daughters male friends. They know I am the mother and I don't flirt with them. My youngest tries to tell me how to date and interferes with my marriages and relationships. She likes very few men.
I am going to go to counseling yet again.
I have always been very close to my dghtrs and it is tough with the empty nest syndrome. My oldest works for me.
I rarely go out with my dghtrs. The one night I was hanging w/my friends, not hers.
I date often and people my age. I don't frequent bars.
It is tough to change the dance w/my dghtrs.
You are getting impatient? Hmm. I know there are issues to be worked on. I think venting is important. Thanks for listening and for your advice.

I agree with most of what you say. I dont hit on their male friends. That's not what I am saying. There is no crossing the line with my daughters male friends. They know I am the mother and I dont flirt with them. My youngest tries to tell me how to date and interferes with my marriages and relationships. She likes very few men.
I am going to go to counseling yet again.
I have always been very close to my dghtrs and it is tough with the empty nest syndrome. My oldest works for me.
I rarely go out with my dghtrs. The one night I was hanging w/my friends, not hers.
I date often and people my age. I dont frequent bars.
It is tough to change the dance w/my dghtrs.
You are getting impatient? Hmm. I know there are issues to be worked on. I think venting is important. Thanks for listening and for your advice.

Well, I didn't say that you hit on their male friends. I said that they didn't trust you round them.. .

The thing is - you may be close to your daughters, but it hasn't resulted in a good relationship with them - you keep trying to change things but the outcome is never satisfactory for any of you.

Venting is great but in the absence of action you'll keep going in circles.

Hopefully seeing someone professional will make a difference - let us know how the counseling goes.

Jake2008. I really think you should go into private practice, your advice is uncanny on the spot!
My dghtr moved out last June when I was in DC. We have mended somewhat. We had an OK time in NY.
You are right, I cannot change her, nor do I have to accept her poor behavior towards me.
She tells her sis everything, she's sort of replaced her as a mother figure.
I think my oldest actually gets joy in seeing my youngest and I not get along. Yesterday we went to breakfast together. She spends the night down the st. at her sis's house, not here. I said, you know we used to be so close and do so much together, I miss seeing you. Her response, "You sound so needy when you say that, it makes you seem so insecure." You know I don't like needy people.
I mentioned it to my sister today and she just sighed, like she couldn't believe it. She said that is so hurtful, I can't believe she says things like that to you.
I begged my mom to lend my youngest 4000 for surgery, that was for self improvement, a breast reduction. Nonetheless, I have never borrowed from my parents. I have sacrificed so much for the girl, and still she really wants little to do with me. She doesn't value my opinion, won't discuss relationships with me at all, because I have failed at them. She only sees me when she has no one else to do things with, or out of obligation. It hurts me so much.
She is quite successful in most things. She is taking meds for bi polar traits and seems a bit better.
I can't afford counseling right now. I have gone in the past.
My dghtr that I adore so much has not turned out the way I thought she would. I thought we would be forever close. We are very distant. She says she loves me, yet can't stand being around me very long.
Well, I am trying to get over the empty nest syndrome and develop my own life. It isn't easy...

It is heartbreaking when you don't get even the basic respect you deserve, regardless of what they think of you personally (for whaterver reason). Somehow it is okay to dump all the nasty stuff on mom, because it has to go somewhere right? They wouldn't dream of treating anyone else this way.

Trouble is, we try to make sense of it, and there just aren't any answers. Your youngest has really put you through the wringer, and it will probably never make any sense.

I think the hardest part is we have regrets. Any good mother I know who did her best, and ended up being on the receiving end of bad relationships with adult children, did the best they could at the time when they were growing. Mistakes? You bet. I've made plenty, who hasn't. But, sometimes I think that no matter what we did wrong, or what we did right, they are going to end up being their own person. In whatever form that takes.

No matter how we accept them, or what we expect of them, sometimes they are just who they are, and that's the way it is. One of mine is the total opposite of the other, and although hard, I've just learned to accept her as she is. Take the good when it comes your way, and let the rest go. Nothing will change the person she has turned out to be.

A very good friend of mine with four daughters has one that is polar opposite to her sisters. I wondered sometimes if she had a different father! But, she didn't, it's just who she is.

Keep busy, and try not to beat yourself up anymore. You deserve happiness and a full life without so many regrests and guilt. Do what makes you happy.

Sometimes you just have to let go of the past.

All the best to you raggedmom.

You are a dear. Letting go of the past iS A FEAT. I think part of being a supportive mom is giving advice. My daughter is so ungrateful. She does blame everything on me. She says I bring on her anxiety issues. I don't deserve the garbage she spews at me.
What hurts me, is I find out both my daughters and friends go to the movies, they don't invite me. Previously she said she didn't like being around me if I drank. Seems as I thought, she just doesn't like being around me for long, regardless if it is the movies, shopping, etc. She calls her sis many times a day. She calls me maybe every two weeks.
I went to the same college as she did, but at night. I was at all her Univ functions,so her music friends knew me, I helped with rehearsals, etc, flew to see them perform across country. They didn't even know that I went to school there at night to get another degree. Seems she only wanted me to pay for refurnishing her new dorm room each year, carrying things in, practicing after class with her. She uses me. When I would call, she would say, "Gotta run, don't have time to talk" and hang up.
Ever since the incident with the guy in DC, she hasn't been close to me. She stayed with me a week during Christmas. I don't think we will ever be close again. Growing up, it was she and I against the world. Now I am a distance obligation to her.
I am trying to stay busy, directing shows, running my ins agency. Being single and starting your life over, just isn't easy. Don't have the confidence I used to. Seems when you are in your 20s, 30s, 40s you think you are invincible. Society is not into women entering their 50s and beyond. Wisdom and life experience just isn't "cool." You are old... lol.. yep!
Well, cheer up, right?I still have many many blessings. Deal with life on life's terms!

You are a dear. Letting go of the past iS A FEAT. I think part of being a supportive mom is giving advice. My daughter is so ungrateful. She does blame everything on me. She says I bring on her anxiety issues. I don't deserve the garbage she spews at me.
What hurts me, is I find out both my daughters and friends go to the movies, they don't invite me. Previously she said she didn't like being around me if I drank. Seems as I thought, she just doesn't like being around me for long, regardless if it is the movies, shopping, etc. She calls her sis many times a day. She calls me maybe every two weeks.
I went to the same college as she did, but at night. I was at all her Univ functions,so her music friends knew me, I helped with rehearsals, etc, flew to see them perform across country. They didn't even know that I went to school there at night to get another degree. Seems she only wanted me to pay for refurnishing her new dorm room each year, carrying things in, practicing after class with her. She uses me. When I would call, she would say, "Gotta run, don't have time to talk" and hang up.
Ever since the incident with the guy in DC, she hasn't been close to me. She stayed with me a week during Christmas. I don't think we will ever be close again. Growing up, it was she and I against the world. Now I am a distance obligation to her.
I am trying to stay busy, directing shows, running my ins agency. Being single and starting your life over, just isn't easy. Don't have the confidence I used to. Seems when you are in your 20s, 30s, 40s you think you are invincible. Society is not into women entering their 50s and beyond. Wisdom and life experience just isn't "cool." You are old... lol.. yep!
Well, cheer up, right?I still have many many blessings. Deal with life on life's terms!