Hi.
My fiance` and I are currently in the process of buying a house. One that we are really interested in is a two story townhome with the master and 2 bedrooms upstairs.
On the first floor I noticed they have water marks directly under both bathrooms. The water marks under the Master bathroom are in lines with various smaller circular water marks around them. It seems to span the length of the bathroom. We looked uder the sinks and they have no indcations of having water there.
The water mark under the additional two bedrooms is a smaller circular mark that has begun to discolor the ceiling. This water mark is under the sink in the bathroom. Again, No water was seen in the cabinets under the sink.
The water is turned off in the home currently. Is there any way that we can firgure out how serious this is? Would there be an answer to why both bathrooms are doing this?
We would like to figure out if it could be a simple fix or a major fix. We would like to have an idea before we make an offer and pay for a full inspection.
Speed ball1 can you help?
Thanks!

From experience it sounds really serious, it is going to be expensive, your going to have to go between the floors and make sure your water line isn't busted, because it sounds like just a minor leak that can cause serious damage... ive seen, it's going to be expensive. :):p

Speedball1 is not available for few days...

There are 2 kinds of leak: pressurized and those from drains. If the water doesn't drip from the ceiling 24/7 than it is probably drain leak.

It could be any drain in the ceiling. Sometimes happens water seeps around wax ring under incorrectly re-set toilet after new floors were installed.

Drain leaks may by hard to detect since it may be a very slow drip. The stains may be a product of months of leaking.

Call plumber - not Home Inspector. Home Inspectors are not skilled to analyze this kind of problems. Experienced plumber will know how to approach,analyze , and find the leak.

Depending what leaks, repair could be as easy as replacing wax rings and/or tighten up overlfow plates on tubs. But it could also involve replacing large section of drain. In any case, ceiling will have to be cut in several places. You should also worry about mold-growth inside the ceiling. You should have the wet areas properly disinfected prior covering up.

You should request credit from the selling party to cover the repair expenses. How much ? More rather than less. With patching and painting repair can run you several thousands of dollars.

Good luck... and let us know what you decided to do... Milo

Thanks for the help. We are trying to decide what to do at this point. Someone has put an offer in on the house today and we were told (without it actually being said) that it's a low offer so we are trying to figure out if we too should put one in and then have a plumber come out if it is accepted.

Will a plumber be able to identify the severity of the leaks with the water not turned on?!

This house has been vacant since January. Does that make it harder to find out where the problem is coming from?!

This needn't be a big deal. It's not a pressure leak or it would be sopping wet. It could be water that leaked through the tile grout when showering. To do this right the ceiling will have to be opened up and water ran in the drains and the toilet flushed while checking for moisture. If none is found the next step's directing water around the tiles where the shower stream hits. Since you can't do this until you purchase you have leverage to demand a reduction in the owners asking price. Good luck, tom

Tom gave you excellent advice. If you really want the house, ask for few thousands of dollars of credit to cover the repairs. As Tom said, it may not be a big deal to repair.

Let us know what you decided to do. Good luck with the purchase ! Milo

Thanks for all of your help. It is selling as a foreclosure from a bank so, it being sold as is. The price is already pretty low and I am not sure how much they are willing to negotiate. Unfortunately, even though the price is low its at the top or what we wanted to spend so it's not to say the house is priced low and we could just deal with the problems (The upstairs carpet also needs replacing). The house was definitely not taken care of before the owners moved out and not cleaned well. That is why we are so hesitant.

How much do you think we should allow to fix this problem in the worst case scenario and the best case scenario?

Would any of you know about chinese drywall? We don't think the house would have it. I have read many articles saying there is a fould odor and we didn't smell anything in the home (there hasn't been any air turned on it the home since January). Let me know what you know... Thanks!

Thanks for all of your help. It is selling as a foreclosure from a bank so, it being sold as is. The price is already pretty low and I am not sure how much they are willing to negotiate. Unfortunately, even though the price is low its at the top or what we wanted to spend so it's not to say the house is priced low and we could just deal with the problems (The upstairs carpet also needs replacing). The house was definitely not taken care of before the owners moved out and not cleaned well. That is why we are so hesitant.

How much do you think we should allow to fix this problem in the worst case scenario and the best case scenario?

Would any of you know about chinese drywall? We don't think the house would have it. I have read many articles saying there is a fould odor and we didn't smell anything in the home (there hasn't been any air turned on it the home since January). Let me know what you know...Thanks!

If it is a leaking ABS / PVC drain, repairs are relatively easy and cheap. You could make it a weekend project with your partner and we here at AMHD could lead you through it. We've done it many times before with other posters. Remember, we are here to help you.

Foreclosures are always difficult purchases. It is a roulette you are playing with the purchase. You get no feedback about history of the house. Almost always there are some repairs that need to be dealt with, may it by plumbing or other trades. Also, as a Home Owner you should be prepared to do basic repairs to your house on almost everyday bases. There is always something broken around the house. You should go to Home Depot, buy tool box, fill it with basic hand tools. This will save you many thousands of dollars in the future. Also, get 5' auger. It is life saver..

I am sorry but I am not familiar with the term "chinese drywall". Can you define the term for me ? Thank you... Milo

I got this off a website. Thanks for the information!

WHAT IS CHINESE DRYWALL?

In short, drywall that was imported from China which corrodes copper and metal surfaces, often gives off a foul odor, and can make you sick. Such compounds as butanethial, carbonyl sulfide, hydrogen sulfide, mercaptan, methylthio pyridone, sulfuric acid, sulfurous acid, sulfur dioxide and stronium sulfide have been found in Chinese drywall. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has declared many of these compounds to be toxic (See EPA Drywall Sampling Analysis dated May 7, 2009), however, the Florida Department of Health (DOH) continues to maintain that the levels found in Chinese drywall are not high enough to present “an imminent or chronic health hazard at this time.” It is not clear whether this finding takes into consideration long-term exposure and the combined exposure to multiple compounds.

If it had no heat - freezing weather could have pop a lot of pipes that had standing water. I would get the city to cut the water on for an inspectiion for more problems than that one. Ask the bank to allow you to cut into the damaged sheetrock for the turn on inspection.

I did not know that they allow you to actually cut into the wall to check that out. Is that something they normally do?

How would you know if it is a pressurized leak?

Went look at the proprety again yesterday and brought a friend with me. He isn't a plumber but he does tile work in bathrooms etc. He said the lines on the ceiling in the living area under the master bathroom are from the water seeping through the joints of the drywall.(where the seems are murder and taped together) this does make sense know that he pointed it out. Does that make it more serious since it is the span of 3 to 4 sheets of drywall?we know a guy that does drywall so we aren't worried about that expense.

Is there insulation in between the floors of two story homess usually?

What would we do if there is mold? Can we remedy it ourselves?

Pressure leak will be running 24/7 so there will be constant drip. Some times, it is even audible.
Non-pressure leak is from drain pipe. It leaks only when drain is in use. Depending on the situation, it may take few minutes before first drop shows on the ceiling.

Your friend was correct. Water travels on top of the drywall. It reaches taped joints, fills it, and soaks through. That's where the leak appears. If the leak marking span 3-4 sheets of drywall that indicates to me one of 2 things: it is a small leak leaking for long time that spread or it is a large leak.

No, there is not usually insulation between floors - but some builders put in insulation for sound purposes.

Mold: you will have to take down those 3-4 sheets of drywall, maybe more. Let interior of ceiling completely dry. Spray with disinfecting spray. If there is lots of mold, I would call professional for advice. Then, reinstall drywall, tape, prime, paint.

Lauryn685: you are the buyer. You are the protagonist of the deal. Do not feel like you are making too much troubles if you want to find out about the house more then they want to tell you . They are also under pressure. They want to sell the house. Present them (bank) with proposed cost of repair and ask for proper credit (selling price reduction) towards the repairs. They will comply... Banks are not in business to own houses, they want to get rid of it as quickly as possible...

I did not know that they allow you to actually cut into the wall to check that out. Is that something they normally do? No! Permission's required.

How would you know if it is a pressurized leak? With the water turned on to the house and without draining or flushing you look for fresh waster marks.

He said the lines on the ceiling in the living area under the master bathroom are from the water seeping through the joints of the drywall.(where the seems are murder and taped together) this does make sense know that he pointed it out. Does that make it more serious since it is the span of 3 to 4 sheets of drywall?
No! I simply means that the leak has been going on for some time and it's spread.

Is there insulation in between the floors of two story homess usually?
No.

What would we do if there is mold? Can we remedy it ourselves?
There are mold treatments that you can do yourself if you find any.
As I said, you have leverage to demand a reduction in the negotiations so you can determine , both the cause and the expense of the repair. Good luck, Tom