My ex husband has temporary custody pending court ordered evaluations (mine are done). In Aug. of 2007, he had his policeman friend come to the door of my home. I had a few beers previously after I had put my 2 year old to bed in her crib. Being naïve, I let the officer into my home. Before the evening was over, my baby was ripped from my arms and placed in her waiting fathers arms outside of my house and I was arrested and taken to jail! I know you can't drink and drive, but I didn't know you can't put your child to bed and drink some beer. This happened in a very small town with only one judge. Pending my ex-husbands psychological evaluation, I had wanted my then 3 year old daughter to visit with me at my mothers house for a two week period. My ex-husband said no. Then the judge said no. A visit to grandma's house! My child's well being is not his main concern at all. He did this to an older child of his and that child's mother. After he had thoroughly messed up the older child, he had that child returned to his mother. He also has another child between these two children with another woman and has no contact with that child. 2 years before the cops came to my door, in Sept. of 2005, he had a constable surprise me at the door with divorce papers and told me that the child and I had to vacate the premises immediately. No concern or mention of my ability to care for the baby at that time. I rented a house, got my old job back, found a great babysitter for my daughter. 6 monthes later, I bought a house. Life was never better for me. He started calling my boss at her home and telling her lies about me. She told me, and she said she didn't believe him. She just wanted to warn me. I had friends tell me that he had told people he was going to rip me apart, limb from limb, physically and figuratively. He told my older daughter (17 at the time) he was going to get me in trouble. And when my older daughter testified on the stand, under oath, to that fact, the judge said he couldn't believe her! I keep thinking there has to be hope for me and my daughter, but it seems that I only run into brick walls. I write her letters and make copies of them before I send them. I tell him someday she is going to know the truth and understand what he is doing. He says "I hope so". In November of 2008, I received a registered letter from his attorney stating that I could only call her on the phone on mondays between the hours of 10:00a.m. and 12:00. If I did not abide, the police would arrest me. Now (may '09), I have received a registered letter from his attorney saying I cannot call her at all. If I do, I will be charged with harassment by communication!

What is your legal question?

If you want personal advice or need to vent this should be moved to one of the relationship/children/parenting boards.

What should my question be? I actually have lots of questions. # 1 being now, how do I move this to the appropriate board?

What should your question be? I have no idea. You posted this on the legal board but I see no request for legal advice.

I have asked that it be moved to a more suitable board, a board where you will get support and not legal advice.

I moved the thread back to the legal board. Because it looks like you want to know what to do to spend time with your daughter. There is one answer to that:

GET AN ATTORNEY!! Not only are you up against it because he has an attorney and you don't, but you are also up against it because the police and the courts are apparently prejudiced against you.

You have a mess here, that you need an attorney to unravel. If I woere your attorney I would start by getting the decision to take the child away from you overturned.

If there was a pending court order and you legally had the child for a visit, then there was no grounds for them to take your child away. That this was done by an officer, friendly with your ex, smacks of abuse of power.

I believe an attorney should be able to take this to a higher court to overturn the initially custody order and get a change of venue. But you NEED an attorney to do this.

I did have an attorney, I paid him $4000.00 and when that money ran out he hadn't been able to accomplish anything for me and my baby. Although, in the very beginning, when the judge ordered the psychological evaluations of my ex-husband and me, I remember my attorney telling me to get mine done immediately and when the ex doesn't get his done after a reasonable amount of time, we can get a comtempt of court against him if he doesn't comply. Then, when ex's attorney asked my attorney if ex could skip psychological evaluation, my attorney said "ok"! When I found out, I said "no, don't let him out of that." Yes, two weeks previous to this officer arresting me and taking my child, my ex was very blatantly trying to make it obvious to me that he was communicating with this particular officer. Thank you for your response, ScottGem. Support, rational thinking and good advice keep me perservering no matter how difficult I think things are. Was I unjustly arrested, I believe I was and it sounds like you think so too. My attorney said in the beginning it should have been thrown out of court by the magistrate at the pretrial hearing, but of course it wasn't. Then he said when my older daughter testified about my ex-husbands intentions the judge would see through his tactics, but he didn't. I know the judge hasn't put the facts together that my ex used a constable to remove me and this child from his home two years previous to this incident and I asked my attorney to bring this fact up in court, but he didn't. I don't think he thought it mattered. I also asked my attorney to let me go in front of a senior judge that was filling in for the vacationing, biased judge and he said OK. Later, my brother was inquiring about my case to my attorney, and in my attorneys letter in response to my brother, he said for tactical reasons, he waited for vacationing (biased) judge to return! I actually am set up to have a meeting with the legal aid attorney in this county and I want to have all of my ducks in a row as much as possible, any advice and as much advice as I can get before hand would be much appreciated. I also need to be ready to call the place he will have to go for his psych eval before he goes because they said when I went for mine that they wanted any pertinent information or any concerns I wanted addressed beforehand. Yes your answers helped and thanks for moving it back to legal.

If you can document what your attorney did, you may have a malpractice case against him. Sounds to me like he realized he has to appear before that judge in the future and caved.

One piece of advice is to stop changing your story. Another thing is that the courts are suppose to look after the best interest of the child and that's where you should be focusing. Save the pity party stuff for outside the courtroom. Also I have to disagree with Scott on the lawyer you had it sounds like he was trying to follow a line of thinking for later defense and not just washing out. You have to remember that you ran out of money and its normal under those conditions most lawyers will press to just get it over with. If that means compromises then that's where they might go.

One piece of advice is to stop changing your story. Another thing is that the courts are suppose to look after the best interest of the child and thats where you should be focusing. Save the pity party stuff for outside the courtroom. Also I have to disagree with Scott on the lawyer you had it sounds like he was trying to follow a line of thinking for later defense and not just washing out. You have to remember that you ran out of money and its normal under those conditions most lawyers will press to just get it over with. If that means compromises then thats where they might go.


Out of greenies but I agree - sounds like OP is seeking validation and agreement, not advice... but I said that before.

I always wonder why everyone is against one person.

I too am out of greenies so I'll just say go back and re-read calif's response.

A registered letter from your ex-husbands attorney is not the same as a court order. Unless you have a court order saying you are not to contact your daughter then I have to presume this is a stunt by his lawyer to show that you haven't been caring enough to try an contact your daughter. Take the letters to another lawyer and see if they can help you!


Oh yeah, see if you can get an ethics complaint filed against his lawyer for the intimidation letters. His lawyer can not state that you will be arrested for harassment by communication unless there is a court order which says you can not communicate with your daughter (I am sure if there is one you would have been served by an officer of the court and not his lawyer). Being a parent comes with rights and those rights are not rescinded simply because you received registered letters.

What pity party stuff? How am I supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? Califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before I got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. Please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.

What pity party stuff? How am i supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before i got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.


Again - you should be focusing on this issue, not your past medical history.

Why is everyone in "the system" against you - ?

Has there been a restraining order placed against you? If not then his attorney telling you not to bother calling dosen't mean that much. You need to keep a journal (like I've told many people) about exactly what happens when you do call. No dramatics just what happened. Did the arresting officer give you a sobriety test or a breathalizer? Because it is true that they shouldn't have taken her if all you did was put her to bed and had A beer (maybe two depending on your tolerance) however, you should know that a drunk parent dosen't look good to anyone. Here is the general equation... if one party has representation and the other does not the party with representation will win. So go looking for another lawyer to represent you. Yes, they are expensive. No, they don't have to take payments. Yes, you will need one to fight one.

What pity party stuff? How am i supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before i got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.

(quote )
Although, in the very beginning, when the judge ordered the psychological evaluations of my ex-husband and me, I remember my attorney telling me to get mine done immediately and when the ex doesn't get his done after a reasonable amount of time, we can get a comtempt of court against him if he doesn't comply. Then, when ex's attorney asked my attorney if ex could skip psychological evaluation, my attorney said "ok"!


I also need to be ready to call the place he will have to go for his psych eval before he goes because they said when I went for mine that they wanted any pertinent information or any concerns I wanted addressed beforehand. Yes your answers helped and thanks for moving it back to legal.
( end quote )


That alone is enough to show your story changes with your feelings. If your representation said he didn't have to by agreement then he doesn't. You don't seem to be following a straight line.. rather your letting your emotion get in the way and that's not going to fly in court.

Sorry, sailormark, I didn't see your reply when I replied earlier. Thank you. About my story changing, when I talked to the secretary at legal aid, she said if it's a court order it can still be enforced whether my previous representation excused him from it or not.

Sorry, sailormark, I didn't see your reply when I replied earlier. Thank you. About my story changing, when I talked to the secretary at legal aid, she said if it's a court order it can still be enforced whether my previous representation excused him from it or not.

The secretary was right. No one can excuse someone from complying with a court order. They have to go to court to get the court order rescinded. Which is one of the reasons your story sounds so strange.

So much has happened. I got my conference with the legal aid attorney shortly after those posts. He was going to help me, he thought before he talked to me he could do the evaluation contempt of court with a brief case file, but then said he would make a full case file (sounded good to me). I waited, and I got my paperwork back in the mail with a letter telling me their office couldn't help. That I was to call my ex-husbands attorney and she would explain it to me. I called his office and asked if he could let me know what my ex-husbands attorney had said to him. I didn't get a response. Called another attorney in town I had dealings with in custody before and asked her if she could help (had already paid her a retainer, it was used up, but I thought she would let me pay her for services as I needed them, just a contempt of court) she said no, but good luck. He's been very sick with diabetes and heart trouble recently since he got her. I was talking to her one night when she called me and she said "come home mommy or we're going to shoot ourselves in the head" I hesitated, but I called state police. They checked out the situation and told me not to worry. Because of his illnesses, I had been worried about what he might do if he knew he was terminally ill. And she said that. He laughed at me when he called me the next day. I called children and youth services and they told me "no reason to investigate further". He got sick Monday night and died Tuesday. I went to the courthouse Wednesday morning. The lady I talked to said she had simple forms but she didn’t have one that didn’t ask for a defendant and since he’s dead there is nothing to put in that space, so her forms wouldn’t work, she told me to go see a lawyer. I thought I could just say I have partial custody and the other parent is deceased now. I had to find out through the grapevine he was deceased. His older kids have her and won’t return my calls. I found out later Wednesday they won’t return my dad’s, sisters or my mother’s calls. My mother called them finally and said you have 1 hour to call the mother. They called. The older sibling (she is 30 and I’ve never had a problem with her and I wouldn’t be afraid for her to care for my child while they have her for this period of time) said she was fine and they appreciated the time I was letting them have with her (I think they think they are up to something) I called my mom and she said not good enough we have to hear her voice. My mom called them back and said for them to let her call her grandma. No response. I have an appointment with an attorney who I think will be productive. And he’s calling me Friday morning. But I don’t have a real appointment until Wednesday , 3/10. Now I’m thinking I don’t want to wait. Can’t I just go get her. I’m going to the veiwing because I guess that’s the only way I might get to see her. They will love that. She wouldn’t have to be there the whole time or be with someone else if they would let her be with me. I really hate to call the cops. I’m sick of the cops (in this scenario) and I don’t want to put her through it that way. The only thing keeping her from me was his petition for special relief pending psych evaluations and drug tests. My sister in law says what is wrong with you……go get her!! But it seems that my situation gets handled under a different category of rules. Sorry if the info seems whiney and I know it‘s long ( I don’t care, call it whiney) sorry if some of what I have seems trivial and not pertinent. I’m saying that because I really love askmehelpdesk and I appreciate everyone's advice. I want my daughter back and that actually seems like a real possibility now. What do I do? They can’t possibly have a leg to stand on, can they. They don’t want to keep her forever, they just want to continue their fathers torture.

Did you have partial custody or did you loose custody all together? If you had visitation ordered by the court that would still stand. The papers that you were given were real papers that would have worked. You are the plaintif and whoever has the child is the defendant. How did she get placed in the care of her sister? Right now the best chance you have is with the attorney that you have a meeting with. You can't just go get her if you don't have custody, it is possible the state approved her living with the sister as a foster and it would be kidnapping if you just went and got her.

I - also - have no idea why custody (if you had joint or partial) wouldn't revert to you upon the death of the "other" parent UNLESS you totally lost custody and have no rights.

An Attorney is your only hope - if the sister has custody of the child without Court permission the Attorney can work out the details very quickly and return the child to you - presuming/assuming you are not a danger and have successfully passed all the psych exams.

Thank you for your responses. I had partial custody. Went to funeral home to see my daughter. She had just left with someone. I sat quietly in the front while my older daughter (he had been her stepfather for a period of time) and her boyfriend (he is actually a step nephew of the deceased) went to the back to pay respects. Ex-husbands neice(older daughters boyfriends stepmother), told me to leave, I said I wanted to see my daughter. Ex husbands daughter came up front and told me to leave. I said either bring her here or tell me where she is, I don't think I'm asking for too much. She said leave, I have papers, I have custody. I said I want to see my daughter. They were saying I had picked a fine way to choose how I was trying to strong arm them into letting me see her. I was calm and respectful of the funeral home. A police officer came in and sat beside me and told me I had to leave. He said I should've been served papers. A constable came in and gave me an envelope. The lawyers letter said I was not allowed at the viewing or the funeral. There were papers signed by the judge giving her 2 older half sisters emergency custody. I left and went straight to the attorneys office I'm to have a phone conversation with Friday. The secretary copied the papers and told me to come to the office tomorrow instead of the phone conversation. I asked if he was friends with the opposing attorney and she said they had an amicable relationship. Also one other note, the papers say her 2 half sisters will have co-guardianship pending a hearing on April 14, the older "half" sister is a step sister. But is listed in papers as half sister.

Were you informed about this hearing? This whole thing smells! There should not have been an emergency custody hearing without you being notified of that fact. But the bottom line is you need to get in front of this judge and ask why, as the surviving parent, custody of your daughter was not given to you.

I wasn't notified.

I agree that something is off. You should have been notified of any hearing that was set to happen so that you could attend. Your new attorney may press the issue and get you into court sooner so that all the details can be ironed out.

Something here is not right - I am horrified by the scene at the funeral parlor. I buried a husband fairly recently and I can't imagine anything similar to this happening.

Curious to see how this plays out.

How do I find an attorney who will take this to a higher court. I have decided this towns system is truly corrupt. The attorney I spoke with today said if these 2 wouldn't have asked for co-guardianship, ex could have had her put in foster care. He told me it's my fault ex wasn't made to abide by the visitation orders. He told me my attempt with legal aid was lame. He said it looks like I didn't care for her. I asked him about a different judge, he said that would never happen.

Make sure you document everything and do not embelish on anything. Keep close records and get all past records together. What were the accusations that were made against you that caus you to lose custody in the first place?

If you answer the questions that have been asked "we" will be able to provide some answers. Too much is being left unsaid and I cannot believe that every Attorney and Judge in your Town and County are against you.

Something is being left out of the story.

Well, I'm out of greenies again (what a surprise). But again I agree that there is information being left out. Why did you loose custody to begin with? If you had court ordered visitation and you didn't get it as ordered did you go to court to have the order enforced? If not then it kind of is your fault, not completely but you didn't do all that you could. How big is your county? Are there really only three different attorneys and they all say the same thing? The only way to get it to a higher court is if you one find an attorney to take it there which means even more money from you and two proving that the judge made an error in assigning custody to the sisters. This isn't just an I don't like the way it turned out error but prove that you had no idea that there was ever a hearing and that girl is worse off with them than with you. If you didn't push the visitation then that won't look good on your part. Start getting all your proof in order THEN go see an attorney so you have something to put on the table.

This town is so small, when I went to courthouse on Wednesday to see about getting my daughter, the head of probation tapped me on the shoulder and told me to go see my ard officer before I left. He actually just wanted to tell me my time was up for ard. Ard is like probation, but it takes away your charges if you stay out of trouble for the time ( I had 2 years for the incident I have described here, I didn’t initially want to take it because I felt like it was pleading guilty). I don’t know what they call it in everyone's state. When we went to cross the street to go into funeral home, an officer let us go in front of him. It was the same officer that escorted me out of funeral home. Coincidence? I don’t know how the streets are safe with me on them. Also,would they have done that to me in front of my daughter if I had caught her there. Sometimes my internet connection isn’t good, but I’m always thinking about amhd. If it seems that I’m not answering questions, that’s not my intent, believe me, I’m glad you are asking them. I just have so many things in my head and sometimes I just want to keep you posted so there will be less questions you might have to ask. Oh, my town is so small, that the night of their fathers funeral, step sister had called finally, and said do you want your daughter right now (out of the blue). That was Friday about 4pm. The letter from attorney said she would call on Saturday and set up a visit for me. Well I had gone through beer distributors(pa.) on way home from attorneys office. It was time for a beer and a cigarette. So I was sitting on front porch keeping my beer down anyway, and she calls. Am I just paranoid. When I got her SATURDAY morning (I’m not THAT stupid), my older daughter, her boyfriend, his little girl, my son and my sister where with me. Only half sister there with my daughter, step sister is strangely uninvolved. Let me have her from 10am to 6pm. She told me guardian half sister is taking her to Maryland (did I ever say this is Pennsylvania). She said she would live with me when she grows up. The step sister lives in this town. The papers don’t say half sister can’t leave pa, with my child and these papers nullify previous papers, right? I told her when she picked daughter up she can’t take her to Maryland. She said OK, like we will see. I thought last night though if she does take her to Maryland, I’d go to Maryland too. I’d get in front of another judge that way, and she wouldn’t have her dad’s attorney down there. Or are there standard rules for guardians and taking her out of state is out of the question. Or since they have co guardianship, the one in state guardian can let the out of state guardian take her out of state. I just know whatever blocks they run into they will overcome. Also, the instate guardian lives in a different school district than her father just registered her in, can they change school registration. If not, I could move myself to that school district. I don’t think everyone is out to get me as much as I feel that his attorney gets what she wants in front of that judge. And everyone knows it. That attorney was harsh on Friday, but I know he could have just said oh my this is ridiculous, of course we’ll win, give me your money and not done anything like the first guy did. I have to get an out of town attorney, I would like to be in the loop and know who wins against his attorney. A guardian ad leitum has been appointed. How do they get picked, is this just another lackey for his attorney. I’m scared. Not if it’s genuine and legitimate. Can children services help us, I know they like to keep families together at almost all costs (except when they listen to dirty cops)? The papers I got served on Thursday say child will suffer irreparable harm without the granting of emergency guardianship. They want permanent guardianship. Because she was in the custody of her father for 2 and a half years. That she has a very close and loving bond with her half sisters. She has virtually no bond and no relationship with her mother. (this is the lady who sent me registered letters telling me and my mother not to call my daughter on the phone) that I live a highly unstable lifestyle which presents significant risk of harm to the child. That I might take her to Florida, where my parents live. The risk of her being with me and them not being able to moniter whether I am abusing her or neglecting her is far too great. Also I won’t care about her emotional response to the trauma of her fathers death(so every child who has divorced parents and one dies, should go to deceased families relatives because surviving parent might not be so sad about deceased parent, I would never say anything like I was glad he is dead to her!) And again this will cause irreparable harm if permanent
Guardianship is not granted. I also wanted to say the family asked my sister to leave funeral home. She had been told by deceased, she was going to get her (and with that promise, he kept her baited). So now my sister is back on my side. I bet his attorney didn’t think to tell them to let my sister view, they needed her on their side. It is so long and thanks for the brainstorming . I will go back and see if I left more questions unanswered. Yes I know if I heard this story I would say “no way, there has to be something else!!”, but there is not. That is why I can’t understand why the judge continues with what seems so ridiculously, obviously wrong. This town is so small the magistrate who should have thrown it out in the beginning, is my neighbor now. He is out at the back of his yard burning trash. He said hi to me while I am on the phone trying to get a co guardian to answer or call me back.

I believe all conceivable advice has been given and this should be moved to something other than the legal board -

A time waster that has turned into a blog/diary full of unnecessary info.

Cannot believe a whole Town, whole judicial system, entire Police force is against one person. (I grew up in a very small town.)

Sorry you feel that way, jkt, you're the one who said too much was being left unsaid. But I will continue to "waste" my time trying to get my daughter back. I guess I'm done here?

Half sister took her to Maryland.

Isn't there a court date coming soon for custody? If so you need to review all the paperwork with it because most have an order of restraint that goes with them barring anyone from taking the child out of the state without the courts permission.

There is an April 16 hearing for permanent guardianship. I went to see an out of town attorney this morning. I think she thinks she can help, but she doesn't understand how it got this far. She is going to file immediately for visitation. And half sister is going to have a difficult time getting her to me at least 3 times a week and evaluated by guardian ad litem when she lives over 6 hours away. She said it's OK for her to take her out of state at this time, which I don't understand either, but it wasn't in the paperwork. Halfsister and stepsister won't have to have psych evals done either. I'm getting another drug and alcohol evaluation done. And we are going to get another kind of impartial evaluation of me and daughter that will advantageous to show the judge. I will tell the judge I will wear alcohol monitor bracelet (scram) and "sisters" can have the social security. I just want child. Last night, half sister called to rub in the fact that she had gone to Maryland with my daughter. I talked to daughter on the phone and she said "you're not going to like it mommy...i'm in maryland". I said you're right I don't like it, but you're probably having fun with the big kids, right? She said no not really. I am really, really scared. I don't understand why the judge would award temporary co guardianship if I wasn't on the fast track to permanent guardianship. I told attorney I had researched permanent guardianship and it is really permanent, custody doesn't have to be permanent, but guardianship is. She did tell me that's not the case. My opinion is small towns are the worst, can be the worst.