I have a large rubbing/creaking sound when my washer starts to fill, some times when the bath room sink is turned on. I have my walls and 98% of all the pipes exposed, but can't find where the sound is coming from. It just started before I ripped into the wall. All my pipes are hanging exposed in the basement then rise up through the first floor bathroom walls, which are now open. But I can't find the source. It actually sounds like it is coming from near the water heater, boiler and main water inlet in the basement. But all the pipes there are hanging in mid air attached with straps far away from wood. There is an old water hammer arrestor right after the pressure reducing valve right by the main. I just replace the pressure reducing valve (used a watts PRV). Tuned the pressure in at 60 psi. I also added a thermal expansion tank watts plt 12, properly charged to 60 PSI, in the cold water supply just before the water heater. I also put in a new rheem fury 50 gal. although the creaking started in isolation of all these activities. It has been over a month since these updates. The only thing I can think of is the old water arrestor failed, maybe some dirt got dislodged and jammed in it. I could use some advice as the walls are open and the pipes are easy to see. Just can't really find the actual culprit.

It is caused by changes in pressure during water delivery. Also, it may be caused by hot water traveling through pipes. Pipes "move" tiny bit and what you hear is the sound of friction against lumber.

You want to make sure your pipes are not too snug through holes and against framing. Plumber should have used Pipe Insulators to isolate pipes where they touch and/or penetrate lumber.

It is good to have pipe a bit on the loose side...

Start grabbing pipes. Eventually you will find the right one.
Then post a pic and we will help.

But when I grab them what am I feeling for?

Knocking, popping, creaking and crackling pipes are a common complaint, especially in colder weather. I can tell you what's happening and take the mystery out of it but you're not going to like the repair. When a draw is made on a hot water line the line expands against a pipe strap next to a stud and when you drain hot water from your tub or shower it goes into a chase that is a little cooler then room temperature. The heat expands the pipe causing it to rub against the stud to which it is pipe strapped. This is the sound you hear. As it cools it contracts and the noise is heard again. To repair it you must tear open the walls and locate the pipe strap that's causing the problem and shim it tight. Most people when they learn what causes it just elect to live with it. Good luck and thank you for rating my answer. Tom

Thanks speedball that comment is very familiar. I feel like I have seen it before, as I mentioned my walls are open so I want to fix it before I close them. It is also summer time and the weather is not cold. I just don't really now how to find the specific spot that is rubbing. I hear that the sound is coming from near the boiler, again all the pipes are hanging and exposed many of them. But which? What am I specifically trying to find. I feel all of them vibrating. I will take picture later and send in.

Here are pics of the pipes.


Here is the main water into the house new pressure reducing vavle and old water hammer arrestor and the pipes traveling up from there. All pipes are off the walls by 6 inches at least and I know that there a mixture of gas lines and radiator lines all mixed in. I know which ones are my water lines, but I am at a lose when I look at them to say this pipe in mid air is making a noise. There is nothing to bang on. Some pipes may look like they are touching inht epics but I assure you they are not it is just the perspective of the pictures.

Nice pictures! I see lotsa pipes but not a single pipe strap,(see image) to secure them. No wonder you have a problem. Purchase a bunch of 1/2 and 3/4" pipe straps and, for petes sake, back and strap those pipes before you cover them up. Good luck, Tom

Thanks but the clips you picture are to attach directly to the wall. The pipes in my pict will not be covered as they are in my utility room, but they all have hanging straps from the joist every 5 feet or so. But none of them are directly on any stud or piece of wood for me to use the item you pictured. I am still not clear. The pipes upstairs in the bath room are also exposed right now and they are traveling direclty between the studs floating between them, but I hear no noise from them.

Of course your overhead copper's strapped to the joists. That's what keeps them from falling down. Now how about all those pipes I see waving in the breeze. How we strap them to the wall is to secure 2 X 4 backing to the cement wall and strap the pipes to that. Your job was never inspected was it? Ain't no plumber ever put this work in. Another thing I noticed was the galvanized perforated strapping hung from the joists and keeping the copper from falling down.(not the best work I've ever seen.) Unless you want a problem later down the line purchase a roll of copper strapping and replace the galvanized. The reason being that copper and galvanized don't like each other. When they are in contact with each other it set up galvanic current and galvanic current eats pin holes in copper pipes. In short, in addition to your noises it looks like you still have work left to do on your water piping. Good luck, Tom

I don't know who did the work. It is original to the house which is 50 years old and it actually seems like good work. I did three things, I cut in the expansion tank you see hanging from 2 copper straps, the fireplace is above so no joist to hang straps, but I managed to get two on it. I replace the Pressure valve next to the main inlet and the work to the washer and dryer were you see the burn marks. That was me, first sweating I did. I am better now. Any way I think most of the straps on the water lines are copper. If you see a galvanized strap it may be on the gas line which is mixed in there, let me know where you see it. Anyway thank you for the specific instructions about the wood on the concrete I should have thought about that. And I will do in as many places as I can but the majority of the work is just hanging from the ceiling. Any comments on the water hammer arrestor pictured. Should I replace while I am at it. Is 60 PSI to high? I appreciate you walking me through this.

Ohh think I see the galvanized strap you see. Is right in the middle of the big green boiler expansion tank. If that is the one your are referring to it is actually on a black gas pipe which is tucked behind the radiator lines. You can see it if you look carfully. Is that the one. I assume galvanized is OK on the balck iron.

I don't mean to criticize your plumbing but running copper water piping was the part of plumbing I liked best and this isn't how I would have laid out your branches and mains. You have a mixture of galvanized pipes that are connected without dielectric unions,you have galvanized strap iron being used nas hangers on copper pipoes, you have branches hanging in mid air that should have been extended over to the wall and backed and strapped and the picture of the water heater looks like a plumbers nightmare with pipes running every whichy way. What should have been done when your house was repiped was to tear out all the old galvanized and replaced with all plastic or copper. But, as you say, it works for you. I couldn't tell you where to start looking but you might try rechanging that air chamber I see next to your PRV valve and see if that helps. Good luck, Tom

I am not taking it personally, just want you to be clear on what you are looking at so I can get your best expert opinion to improve the situation. I agree, the plumber made a jungle gym down there. But the are no galvanized pipes connected to copper. The silver pipes you see are copper pipes painted silver. I don't know why they did that but they did. All the pipes near the boiler are painted silver. Which is a pain when you want to cut in because you have to sand it all off. And you're right the main problem is they did not extended the pipes to the walls and strap properly and seems like the main cause of the problem I am having now. I am to blame for the water boiler there was not much space back there and the heater was over pressurizing so I cut in the expansion tank and had to create that loop to get it to fit and have access to all the shut offs, unions, etc for future repair should they be needed.

the are no galvanized pipes connected to copper. The silver pipes you see are copper pipes painted silver. Can't buy that when I can see copper connected to threaded malleable iron fittings painted silver,(see image top right). Regards, Tom

You are referring /depicting the boiler and heating pipes. That is a whole issue that it is beyond me. I would not touch them. And would not think that they would be involved in the creaking rubbing problem. I am just referring to the home water supply. When and if that old boiler goes bad and get replaced I assume all those pipes will go away with the new install. That boiler is original to the home and still going strong.

Did you check and recharge that air chamber next to the PRV Valve? Tom

You know I did not and I did not know they are rechargeable or how it worked. I just went to get plumbing supplies and got a new one from watts that 30 bucks with a 1/2 thread. It is blue and seems to be the kind you put near the appliance. The once in my picture is different and they don't seem to be equal, although the supply house said it was and the one like the picture was like 90 dollars. It was at that point that I saw that they need to be charged arouind the pressure of the house. As I mentioned I recently installed a new PRV vavle which changed my homes pressure. Maybe that is contributing to the problem? The pressure in the house was 80 PSI with the bad PRV. I put a new one in and adjusted the pressure to 60 PSI. So I lowered it. I have no idea what the air chamber near the PRV vavle was charged at. I know that this problem is new. It just started 1 week ago. I changed the PRV over a month ago, so I am not able to link the problem to a specific change. All can think to do is go with new stuff. Strap as much down as possible and hope it stops the problem. But now I think what I was sold is not the correct part to swap with the item you see in the picture due to the location by the main. Thouhts?

I have some galvanized pipe in my house I am trying to eliminate. All the pipes that are carrying waste are easy to rip out and replace with new PVC. Only problem is 2 -2inch vents coming from a vanity and tub. The galvanized 2 inch pipe goes up beyond where I can reach. Is it OK to cut the pipe with a sawzaw as high as I can get it (again this is the vent portion of the pipe) and use extra heavy rubber couplings to go from the 2 inch galvanized to 2 inch PVC. These are dedicated vents not wet vents.

I am just going with 2 inch pipe where ever I can. The pipe I am asking about are not the same ones discussed in the other thread regarding rubbing pipes, FYI.

Sure, you can. I would use 2" Galvanized Pipe-to-2" PVC pipe dedicated Fernco Shielded coupling.

Thanks! I thought so but wanted to put it to your expertise and see if there was any issue before I start cutting. I have cremco. They are just like fernco, they have the black rubber and the steel shield all around with straps over that. Sound about right?


This is a picture.

Please see this picture. The trap in the background is for the upstairs tub which has no vent. The galvanized elbow you see is the vent for the downstairs tub that I am going to replace with PVC. Is it worth trying to "t" in a line to the upstair tub to vent it. The pipe there is 1 1/2 inch and on the other side of the joist it couples to 2 inches for the rest of its non-vented journey to the basement main line out which is 4 inch PVC. I was thinking of tieing in a "t" on the immediate opposite side of the joist (because the ceiling is exposed there and it is with in 2 feet of the drain) and running 2 inch pvc to the vent and t'ing it in to that vent. Is this legal, recommend, or a smart thing to do? The ceiling is open so if I do it I do it now. Also it might help the upstairs vanity drain which also has no vent and is about 4 feet away. Now I think I know that the vent needs to connect above the flood line, i.e. much higher than what I am able to do. SO that is the question as to whether I should do it at all.

Thanks for posting photos of your project. It sure makes thing lot easier to evaluate and than to advise...

Fernco looks like the coupling you posted. ( rubber coupling with metal shield and 2 clamps ). Since both pipes have slightly different O.D. they make them so one side fits Galvanized Pipe and the other side fits PVC pipe. Usually, Home Depot doesn't carry those. You would have to go to more professional store, like Ferguson Enterprises or Hirsh Pipe and Supply. See the Fernco catalog at: Fernco Couplings, Flexible Couplings, Flexible Pipe Connectors, Fernco Fitting, Shielded Couplings, Fernco Donut, Pro-Flex Coupling, Large Diameter Couplings, Sewer, Drain, Waste, Plumbing Flexible Couplings, Plumbing Pipe Leak Repair | Fernco (http://www.fernco.com)

Yes, definitely, it is always worthy to add vent to a tub. With vent present, tub will make less ( or none ) gurgling noise while draining. Since you have open walls, it should not be such a big deal. Just make sure you connect upstairs tub vent at about 48" above finished floor.

Thanks, but that is the problem. I can not connect the upstairs tub above the upstairs finished floor. Only at the level that is pictured. I am peeking up through the ceiling I removed looking at the bottom of the finished upstairs bathroom. I only have access to the pipes from the angle you see in this picture. Upstairs the bathroom remains finished and also the roof line gets in the way. So I was wondering if it was worth it to connect it at the level pictured by just coming across the empty gap you see with 2 inch pvc into the current vent which continues up through the roof after making some zigs and zags. Would this be a damaging thing to do as less than perfect option. Should I do it or leave it alone. I don't want to ruin the vent for the tub below by making this connection if it has no benefit. Your opinion would be very helpful as I am about to start redoing all the other pipes.

Milos code likes to vent everything that has a trap. You would have to roll a fitting up on a 45 to take off for the vent and I can see a space problem doing that. Older homes have been venting their tubs through the tub waste for decades with no problems except a gurgle when draining. I can see a lot of hassle with no real advantage to adding a vent on the tub. I'd leave it as it is. Good luck, tom

Well, if that's the case than we have a problem. You could install AAV vent and bring it up behind the tub in the cavity between the tub and wall . This would not require wall cutting. All could be done through access panel.

Since water level in tub is higher than the potential vent connection ( below the floor ) that water from the draining tub would enter vent and tried to drain through there.

PS: Don't really like that sharp, horizontal 90, directly behind the trap. That certainly slows drainage.

Thanks for your advice. I took one more pict so you could really see what I am talking about. Looking at the picture that is a wider shot: The PVC in the back that reduce from 2 inches to 1 1/5 inches and goes through the joist is the tub drain from the other picture (see picture on the right or bottom). The p-trap from the picture on the right is on the other side of that joist. The galvanized metal pipe on the right is the vent from the tub below that I was suggesting that I tie into. The left side of the picture has the galvanized pipe that is the drain for the upstairs tub and the vanity which you can see to the far left. I was wrong about it being a double trap (as I stated in an earlier post). As you can see neither are vented and just tee into the galvanized drain which ties in to the 4 inch main line in the basement. I am going to put the AAV in the vanity as discussed and I am going to redo the pipes you see and replace all the galvanized pipe with 2 inch PVC. My though was to bring a vent over from directly between the upstairs vanity and tub into the vent all the way on the right. It would be easier working in the area in this pict as the ceiling is gone. The p-trap for the upstairs bath is in the area where the closet is. Anyway, I wanted you to see this pict in case it changed you mind about whether there is a benefit to tieing in a vent at this level even though it is below where it really should be. Let me know your last word. Thanks!

Everyone away for memorial day? Have a good weekend.

Jjastinia: thank you for asking. We are staying in town for Memorial Day...

Also, I am noticing your copper pipes are cemented in the concrete-block wall. They should be loose and penetrating wall through larger hole, than sealed with approved sealer that expands.

60psi is a bit higher than 45-55psi recommended. But I don't think the 5 extra psi makes such a difference.

Hi, thanks. I am not seeing where the pipes are cemented. Which picture are uyou looking at?

I can turn down the pressure on the PRV. What was your opinion about the venting issue now that you see the larger perspective?


If you are looking at the earlier set of pics from the basement the 3/4 pipes that are going through the wall are heating pipes and those particular pipes are capped dirctly on the other side. It is a zone that is not in use. Although I just realized that circnpump does turn on but the water goes no where ss the pipes are caped 10 feet away.

Help! I screwed up. I was on my last pvc schedule 40 joint, it was a 2X2x2 wye and I accidentally primed the wrong hub which I was not ready to glue. I only put purple primer on and no glue. I was upside down. Anyway I needed my upstairs shower working so I glued up the correct line to the other hub. But now I am left with the one hub on that wye primed (no glue!) and dried. I will not be doing that line for two more days. My urgent question is can I still use that hub or do I have to cut out the wye which would screw all the measurments up. Is it possible to scrape off the primer and then just reapply and glue. Your help is needed!

Thank you!

You do not have to remove the primer. The reason we paint the fittings with primer is to remove the glaze on the two pieces to be cemented/welded together.
You can do the same thing with sandpaper. Your fitting will be just fine. Good luck, Tom

Thank you! So I should just leave the primer there and I assume just reaply fresh purple primer over the old primer when I am ready to actually glue? That is great. I really thought I was going to have a big problem.

OK. Now when I tried to link two fittings, the length of 2 inch pipe I cut was a little to small I think. I feel like the ends only went in 3/4 or a little less of the way into the hub. And then I had to push the entire length over about a 5 degree to get it to line up. Do you think that will hold up? The joints seem tight but I am not sure if this will leak in the future. What are your thoughts? I have enclosed a picture and circled the joints I question. They may be fine I really can't tell. Also I have enclosed a picture of the trap in the other side that that length connects to (I have not glued it up yet, but there is not much room to change it). What are your thought about this. The trap goes right into a sanitary tee and then drops into a 90 which slants down to the main out. The vent is coming out of the top of that sanitary tee. I am wondering if I have inadvertently created a s-trap due to the space limitations? Let me know if this is OK?

PS I know I did a sloppy job with the primer. What can I say. It runs everywhere and I have no idea how to control it. I am purple.

Here is another angle of the trap. I hope it OK because there is no room for anything else.