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arcura
May 12, 2009, 12:10 AM
In this passage we see that Jesus says...
John 14: 27. Peace I bequeath to you,
My own peace I give you,
A peace which the world cannot give, this is my gift to you.
Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid.

28. You heard me say:
I am going away and shall return.
If you loved me you would be glad that I am going to the Father,
For the Father is greater than I.

29. I have told you this now, before it happens,
So that when it does happen you may believe.

30. I shall not talk to you much longer,
Because the prince of this world is on his way.
He has no power over me,

31. But the world must recognise that I love the Father
And that I act just as the Father commanded.
Come now, let us go.
:confused:If Jesus is God the Son how can the Father be greater that Him if all members of the trinity are equal in power?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

homesell
May 12, 2009, 04:39 AM
Yes, but that needs to be explained since Father and Son are equally infinite God.
It is the position. My earthly father and I are of the same substance and genes and whatnot. He is greater than me by his position of authority but not better. Greater doesn't mean better in this usage. If I go and meet the president of the U.S. he is greater than I am but he is not better than me. Jesus, being in the position of Son cannot be greater than the position of Father but neither one is "better" than the other. The Son does as directed by the Father but being "greater" has nothing to do with better or more powerful or anything else. The Son chooses to be obedient to the Father and this makes the position as Father greater.

adam7gur
May 12, 2009, 05:38 AM
I believe that God the Father gave birth before time as we know it, to His Son , The Word that later became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.
Is God's Son beyond time?Yes He is , He was born before time, still He exists because The Father gave birth to Him.Does this make Him something less than God Himself?No because everything gives birth in its own kind and it is written that this is good.So if this is good then God does so also.He gave birth in His own kind.
The Son knows that EVERYTHING , even He ,would not exist without The Father, that's why The Son says that The Father is greater than Him.
Still The Son is no less than God Himself!

Triund
May 12, 2009, 07:35 AM
I agree with homesell.

If I could add an example of Vladimir Putin. He was President of Russia at one time and now he is Prime Minister of Russia. During his presidency, he was highest authority in his country, but now he is a level below, even though he is the same person. Dmitry Medvedev can take decisions which Putin can not make, though Putin can recommend something but that is not binding on Dmitry. President's orders are binding on everybody. So if Putin becomes the President again, he would be the highest authority. It is not the person, but the hat that person wears, make a difference.

sndbay
May 12, 2009, 08:12 AM
The scripture tells us the Our Father sent HIS grace. In that evidence, I feel we can understand that Christ is the love of Our Father, and we confess Christ as the flesh born in being the heart of Our Father, HIS begotten Son.

Christ being Emmanuel is God with us.

In Genesis 1:26 it speaks of Let us in plural, create man in OUR image, again plural and in the likeness of us confirms to us again plural.

So we have Father, Jesus and likeness of both is HOLY SPIRIT. All three holding the image of righteousness.

In the end: (1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. )

arcura
May 12, 2009, 09:39 PM
Thanks to all.
I always thought that when Jesus said things like that he was speaking as a human person rather than as God the son.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

revdrgade
May 13, 2009, 05:46 PM
I believe that Jesus WAS speaking as a human; that is, according to His human nature.

That doesn't mean that I understand it, but Jesus did set aside the Glory He had with the Father before the worlds were made when He was born into our world by the Virgin Mary.

Here's some passages to consider... not that we can fully understand our one God Who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Ps 8:3-5

3 When I consider your heavens,the work of your fingers,the moon and the stars,which you have set in place, 4 what is man that you are mindful of him,the son of man that you care for him? 5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor.
NIV

Heb 2:5-12

5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,the son of man that you care for him? 7 You made him a little lower than the angels;you crowned him with glory and honor 8 and put everything under his feet."
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
NIV

1 Co 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
NIV

Col 1:15-20

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things , and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things , whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
NIV

1 Co 15:22-28
23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death . 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
NIV

arcura
May 13, 2009, 10:23 PM
revdrgade,
Very good answer.
Thanks,
Fred