Hi all,

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible!

I'm a male 31 years old, been together for 7 years, got engaged 2 years ago.. I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual.. To keep it short, we had been having those silly arguments, have broken up too many times, but would always make up in less than 5-6 hours [lol :)].. However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days, then went directly to no contact.

HOWEVER, thing is: we agreed I would send her stuff back, and she would the same as well.. A week passes, I didn't send her stuff, but neither had I received anything from her.. So, she sent SMS asking where's her stuff, I replied "sorry i was too busy, i will send your stuff shortly, do you have any idea where's my stuff 'cause i haven't received anything?", she answered "sorry, haven't either sent your stuff, i lost your mail address"..

Which of course is a lie, she knows my address by heart :-) Even if she had forgotten her address, she would have asked for it from the very first day we broke up.. Anyway, we exchanged 5-6 emails discussing just about our stuff, we were both very polite (I wanted to keep lines of communication open)..

I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up.. But, she's too proud to make the first move.. I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual..

They must not be since she asked for a break.


However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days,

She dumped you, you begged her back. Keep this in mind in minute.


I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up..

You don't know that.


But, she's too proud to make the first move..

I don't think it's pride. I think it's control. Remember, she dumped you, you begged her. She's in complete control, and by doing this she's got you waiting on her.


I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?



I'm a little confused, is this a long distance relationship? If not, I'd recommend getting that stuff back in person so you can account for all of it. As hard as this might be to believe sometimes women lie and try to keep your stuff at the end of a break up.

Having said that, I think you would actually gain some self respect... or at least hers if you sent her stuff back. In that, I'd include a list of what is yours and what you expect back. She's holding all the cards right now. She dumped you. She refused your begging. She's in control. She thinks (and is correct but she doesn't have to know this) that you are desperate to get her back. She thinks that you are not going to return her stuff because you need her and are waiting on her. In fact, if you sent her back her stuff it will demonstrate to her that in fact you are not as bothered by her decision as she thinks you are, and are no longer waiting on her decisions to guide your life. In many ways this is the last way you have to demonstrate to her you are the one in control of your life and not her. Prove her wrong and take her up on her offer to send her stuff back.

It's a tricky situation, I really do not like chuff's advice, it seems like a lot of mind games and I hate mind games. If you truly want her back, you need to figure out what keeps causing these "little fights" and why this time the breakup has been longer then a few hours. Once you get down to what the cause is, figure out if you can change this. If you can call her up and tell her:
" I don't want to lose you, that is why I haven't sent your stuff back. I know we have been having a lot of fights lately and I think it's because of X. I think if we can work on this issue together, everything can be better"

If you will die for this girl, then let your pride die

My goodness 7 years is a long time to be dating and engaged for 2 years. You are both in your 30's what's the problem?
You two need to pee or get off the "dating/engagement" pot.

If you want her tell her so (you two are too old for mind games you're old enough and been together long enough to be able to communicate with each other) After all this time if you two still aren't ready for marriage you two need to just call it quits.
Maybe that is what her problem is.

Yes, I admit that she must got really surprised to see me begging. She could never imagine that I would ever do such a thing, so maybe she got advantage of it huh?

Nicolerock, you said "if you die for this girl, let your pride die as well".. Well, couldn't somebody just say the same thing for her? Remember, our break up was not a mutual decision.. She was the dumper, not me.. I already let my pride die over the first 1-2 days of our break up, I don't think I can do it again!

However, her emails are very polite & caring, she goes like "take care of yourself", etc.. Sometimes she gave the impression that she's waiting for me to make the first move..

Mind games, huh? I really hate those childish mind games, I can't follow her, I'm too old for this kind of crap..

What I'm trying to figure out is what's the meaning she hasn't sent my stuff back yet..!

YOU let your pride die, I don't care about her pride. I am not talking to her I am talking to YOU!

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

Sound to me like you guys are playing games back and forth with each other.

First of all, you need to stop the mind games, give her stuff back and stay away from this situation. If you come back to her, she will look at you as a weak and pathetic man. Even if she takes you back, she took you back out of pity. This will not hold a healthy relationship, she will leave you again.

Give her stuff back and end it already. She dumped you and you need to accept that. The mind games are just going to hurt you and stall you on what you really need to worry about... yourself. Move on buddy, don't do this to yourself.

Give her her stuff back and be done with it!
I don't think she wants you, she just has not given you your stuff back. You've been together for so long it may be hard for her to let go completely, but I think she is tired of being in a relationship that is going no where. I don't think she is going to ask you to come back and she shouldn't. 7 years is a long time and she is not getting any younger.
She may have found another.

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?
Maybe she'll think after all of this time you are ready to commit. I don't think it would last though, which is why she probably left. 7 years is a long time to invest in an adult. She is not getting any younger.

Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

What kind of stuff is it. Are they things you need? Let her have them and move on.

Then f-ing ask her! We don't know! We aren't mind readers! Maybe the reason she left is you can't communicate!

There is no way you are 31 years old. Because this is what people do in high school she has my stuff I want it back, she isn't getting her stuff until I get my stuff. WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA! Be a man send the lady her things back and be done with it. I am 31 years old also If I acted like this I would punch myself in the face. Grow up!

I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

Well, you say you aren't into mind games, but this is a power struggle. You are in the middle of a mind game and you are both playing chicken. Or not.

It might be done.

The real question you need to be asking is why get back together if you can so casually break up?

How do you fix whatever is broken in five hours... only to repeat it again somewhere down the line. Then again. Repeat.

Until it isn't the same.

You've been together a long time. You've been engaged a long time. You've been breaking up for a long time.

I really don't get your obsession with who sends what first. It sounds like high school noise. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it does.

So... you can live in reality or pretend reality. Reality probably means you both need to step back and decide if you've hit a wall. Just because you know each other, even love each other, doesn't mean you are right together.

Some loves aren't meant for all time. Some are meant for a time. Cannot tell you where yours is... but I can tell you that you aren't going to get any answers getting back together in sixth period after breaking up in homeroom.

And you said you'd send her the stuff that's hers. You can live by your word or you can play mind games. Right now you are playing mind games, whether you like them or not.

You said "x" and you are doing "y"... and I don't care what she is doing. Her actions don't define who you are.

So... stop trying to see three moves ahead. Either apologize, if you are sorry, and look for the real reasons behind all of this back and forth... or don't apologize, and accept the reality of where you are and do what you said you would.

I was in a seven year relationship that had a couple of breaks along the way. We were younger when we started dating, but still... it was long term and there were breakups. And the last breakup wasn't all that much different than a few of the others... I just was done with the noise. Finished. Time to stop wasting time.

She knew me better than anyone else, but she didn't expect id walk. And I did.

So don't assume you "know" where she is. You might be back together. You might not.

If you make "the first move" (which is really incorrect... this is the 2035th move in this relationship... lots o backstory) and she suddenly wants you back... uhm... why do it?

You guys have bigger issues to solve than who has whose crap. Give the crap back and move on to finding out whether you two are really going to address what is wrong in this relationship.

Sorry for the tough love. We talk to people like they are our friends, brothers, sisters here... so the soft gloves are left in the drawer.

I suspect she was looking for a reason to break up, and got one. Seems like the communications were weak anyway, considering the 7 years you both have invested. Guess she wasn't all that thrilled with the two years you lived together.

If its only been a week since the break up, send her stuff back, and disappear from her life. You can get more "stuff" without her.

That will stop the games, and drama, and wondering, as to her motives, feelings, or anything else.

It will also let the emotional dust settle, so you can make decisions based on facts, and not feelings.

Fact- she left, and wants her stuff.

Feelings- Shock over the break up, emotional abandonment, confusion. Loss of self respect because you begged, and she said no. (rejection).

The feelings will heal, if you deal with the fact.

Both of you are dragging out giving each other back their things because neither on of you want to let go instead you want to hold on to each other stuff. Why? Because nobody want to let go.

I don't understand how two adults can act like kids but I have heard worst.

Stop this yo-yo relationship once and for all. Move on! Things could be worst.

Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?


So... you really want more of the same?



I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

She has that option right now. At any moment. She can dump you whenever. The crawling back part is up to you...

But how the hell is giving back her stuff crawling back to her??


Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

Hmmm... so you do the thing you said you would do, give her back her crap that she asked for... and you get to know the real "personality" of the woman? Sounds like fact finding to me.


Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

You both are using stuff as a "hostage" for mental ransom, leverage.

She could write in here and say the same stuff about you. And we'd tell her to give you back your dumb stuff and move on, whatever moving on means.

You are holding onto this tiny little thread that says "maybe she still has my stuff because she doesnt want me to leave and so maybe if i dont send her her stuff, then she wont leave even tho' we arent talking or seeing each other"... or is it "maybe if i dont give in then im a real man and she will respect me for not communicating or doing as she asked because i saw through her charade and then shell be forced to make the first move which would show that shes weak... oh wait... IM weak if i make the first move, but shed be loving if she did... i think"...

Keep the crap. Ship the crap. This is not the issue.

I was in a 8 year relationship with a girl who also was into control. We did this kind of stuff so many times. Broke up so many times. She'd call me and say stuff like "I want the outdoor fireplace I just bought you back! you can't have it if your going to be using it to entertain other girls, blah blah" and vice versa, I'd ask for items or things back, etc.. Its all just a giant mind game mixed with you analyzing every flippin move you and her make.

The thing I never understood which 4 different people have pointed out to you is, this is a failed relationship that isn't going to work. Why do you want her to take you back if this is going to repeat over and over. Every time my GF and I broke up I would be unhappy for a month or two then after I've moved on or felt better she'd come back and we'd resolve some issues (or we would "think" we resolved) and then 1 month later, 1 week, 1 day, whatever, we were back to the same crap.

You need to come to reality with this thought.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE 7 YEARS WORTH SOMETHING. People think that the 7 years is wasted if you don't end up with that person you spent the 7 years with. Man, all these years are GONE unless we get married. Then they are a investment...

Stop thinking like that. The 7 years are 7 years. That's it. It just took you 7 years to figure out that you aren't the right match. Next relationship you are in, hopefully it will take LESS time to figure out.. maybe you will meet the right girl and within 2 years you will say, THIS IS THE ONE, and marry her... but once you wait 7 years and you date from 23 to 31 you were already married at that point. But without the legal paperwork, and obviously without the commitment and vows between you for better or for worse.

Ok, I should give some update info, 'cause this is driving me crazy.

10 days ago I sent her an email where I apologized for every mistake I did in a very mature way, I admitted that we both made mistakes, and took responsibility for my mistakes. I just asked her if she could also understand the mistakes she did, so that we could make a new start, and think things through again. I also mentioned that if she wouldn't want to, I wouldn't force her, wouldn't violate her space.

Guess what she replied... I'll briefly describe her response: "You know what? When I read your email, I could have given our relationship a second chance, but you said 1-2 things that really irritated me & you ruined your chances..."

Immature, or what? Anyway, I got really angry with her response, and then replied politely "Please, lets stop any communication between us, anytime soon you'll receive your stuff, please send my stuff as soon as possible", and she promised she would.. Actually, she seemed very angry that I asked her to stop any communication between us, seemed like she was hoping I would continue begging..

Anyway, thing is that she did receive her stuff (checked online DHL tracking), but for some reason she hasn't sent my stuff up till now.. I should have received them, by mail it would take 1-2 days, 10 days have passed, nothing received.. I'm really angry, I don't want to send her another email asking for my stuff back,?

What can I do? I WANT MY STUFF BACK!! I'm too tired to play her stupid ming/power games.

(extra info: from the day we broke up, she acts in a very immature way: the day we broke up, she opened a Facebook account -which I know she always hated this Facebook crap-, which she intentionally left unlocked, so I would be able to visit her profile and check her NEW pictures from the night she went out to the club with some NEW friends.. Obviously she didn't really want to go to the club, she always hated nightlife. She just did to make me jealous. How immature is she?)

How far away are you from her? If it's close, I'd hit her up with one last email and say I am going to pick up my stuff on this date and this time.

Or make a list of what she has and take her to court over it.

Or write it off as lost and not worth the emotional game your going through. This is the option I'd be picking right now if at all possible.

I don't wish to see her again, that's why I don't go myself to pick my stuff up.

One solution I came up with, is to ask a friend of mine to visit her & ask for my stuff back (I will not warn her about this visit, I prefer to catch her off guard).

Can please somebody explain what's the reason she's keeping my stuff?

Is she so selfish that doesn't care to ship my things back?

Or is it that she can't accept our break up and tries to find new opportunities for us to communicate?

Or maybe is it that she wants to me to even beg for my stuff, just to see me getting humiliated one more time?

My God, I can't understand what games she's playing.

(and what about this Facebook crap she did just to make me jealous? Sometimes I feel like I want to visit her just to SLAP her for playing with me emotions, and then leave).

I don't wish to see her again, that's why I don't go myself to pick my stuff up.

One solution I came up with, is to ask a friend of mine to visit her & ask for my stuff back (I will not warn her about this visit, i prefer to catch her off guard).

Take that solution. Get this done and over with. Do it tomorrow if possible.


Can please somebody explain what's the reason she's keeping my stuff?

Is she so selfish that doesn't care to ship my things back?

Or is it that she can't accept our break up and tries to find new opportunities for us to communicate?

Or maybe is it that she wants to me to even beg for my stuff, just to see me getting humiliated one more time?

My God, I can't understand what games she's playing.

It's a combination of things. To F with you head, to make sure you beg, to make sure you keep thinking about her, to test to see if your man enough to go pick them up, to create opportunities to talk should she need a place to drop her issues. It's a host of problems she's got that she's giving you. Which is why, if the stuff has no value you should write it off. If it does, send you friend over and quick playing this game.



(and what about this Facebook crap she did just to make me jealous? sometimes I feel like I wanna visit her just to SLAP her for playing with me emotions, and then leave).

Won't lie, I've been there. It really bothers me to know end that you offer your emotions to a woman and they take advantage of you for it when you just try to move on. There is a huge problem with respecting the person they've been with even if it did not work out. But why are you looking at Facebook. Delete it. You are attempting to move her out of your life. Facebook is not going to help you.

Your answer was straight to the point. Now I know you can really understand how I feel.

Yes, my question is: Okay lady, we broke up. Okay, we cannot work things out between us. Why the f*#$ do you continue playing games? How wrong was I, to deserve such bad treatment from you?

You know what's the most weird thing? All those 7 years, I was always too damn sure about this lady she wouldn't never treat me like this, don't know where this confidence came from, I was just sure.. She would always make me feel confident, as if she would never dump me.. (of course, I never took advantage of this, I -too- was very caring, and she would always admit what a good person I was, how much I took care of her, and how much she loved me).

Okay, maybe she caught me off guard once, when she decided to break up.. But now, she caught me twice off guard, with her behaviour after our break up.. Never expected it...

Well I hope you get your stuff back. I would email her and tell her you are having someone come and pick it up. Don't play the same games she is playing.

Just so you know, when you apologize to someone, you don't add "but you did wrong too"
You say you're sorry for your actions and be done with it, other wise your apology is seen as disingenuous

Oh trust me. I know exactly where you are emotionally. I think sometimes this is why we see men snap after the relationship is over. Women think their funny playing emotional games because they understand them and men don't so the man can not relate to this. In many ways this is a form of emotional abuse.

I've told myself the same thing about ex's, they are to good or to nice or to mature to do anything to play games even if we broke up. Then the break up happens and the games begin. That is why I keep on stressing if this is stuff you don't need write it off. If it's a HDTV, while I'd get that. But if it's some books, some clothes, or a even a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff, forget it. It's not worth the emotional hell she's going to put you through. I look at it like this, If you stuff is just stuff (not family or sentimental possesions) and is valued at $300.00, you would pay that same amount just to start to heal. It's not worth that much in the grand scheme of things. You can get new clothes. You can replace some DVD's. It's better to replace it then hold on waiting. Look at what waiting has done for you this far. She's got you holding on for no reason other then emotional game play.

If it's that important, send your friend over with a list of what's yours. One reason I suggested court is because once she gets the letter from the court house telling her to show up she'll know the games are over and you aren't F-ing around with her anymore.

Don't quite agree.. I think I acted as a man, accepting whole responsibility of my own mistakes (not just "okay, i'm sorry".. I actually explained why I thought I did wrong, so she could understand that I meant it.. But I couldn't just leave her think that I was the only one who did mistakes, this would amplify her ego and think "too little, too late".. Anyway, this is not the point, different people apologize in different ways..

The point is: is it so common for women to act in such a revengeful way to their ex-BF? Even when their ex didn't do anything wrong? Why? That's what really hurts.. Her way of breaking-up did not respect my personality, nor my feelings.

The reason she is keeping her stuff is really only to her knowledge. However, I can hazard a guess in saying that she is keeping it because that is the last of you and she's holding on to it. Once you have your stuff back, you can completely sever ties with her and be gone from her life. I think she is trying to prevent you from escaping her.

Her new Facebook and her vengeful antics are just methods to try to get you to become jealous and beg for her to come back. I think she enjoys that kind of power over you - which is also why she said in her email that she would have given it a chance if you didn't mess up in the email. This just proves that she is trying to push everything onto you, and thus, gives her a sense of power over you.

What you need to do is get your things back ASAP. If you have to go in person, then go in person. This will not only show that you truly want to sever ties with her but that you're also mature and capable of doing things on your own. Her keeping your things and you allowing it up to this point just proves to her that she is in power. Please take the steps to getting your things back.

Just so you know, when you apologize to someone, you don't add "but you did wrong too"
You say you're sorry for your actions and be done with it, other wise your apology is seen as disingenuous

Yeah... "im sorry you are an arsehole" isn't an apology... ;)

Look... nobody plans for the breakup. When it happens, it might be decent and respectful, or it might be napalm in the early AM... my experience is the person you are newly broken up with is nothing like the person you were dating not so long ago.

Hell... I know my head was so far up my arse after a major crash and burn that I couldn't tell night from day... and I was the sane one supposedly.

And don't make this screwed break up a "woman problem"... both genders can be idiotic... while there might be some common themes about male vs female the potential to be an arse is really universal.

Sucks to be you.

Man... I've been you too many times before. Been there. Done that. Sucks rocks.

(extra info: from the day we broke up, she acts in a very immature way: the day we broke up, she opened a Facebook account -which I know she always hated this Facebook crap-, which she intentionally left unlocked, so I would be able to visit her profile and check her NEW pictures from the night she went out to the club with some NEW friends.. Obviously she didn't really want to go to the club, she always hated nightlife. She just did to make me jealous. How immature is she?)


Well, how immature are you that you're obsessively checking her Facebook like a teenager? Go to the courthouse and find out what you need to do to get an injunction to get your stuff back. Don't email her any longer, just get down to business.

Ok, I've stayed out for awhile.

1. You both are immature and whiny.
2. Maybe she wants to try new things like clubs
3. You're kind of stalking with this Facebook stuff.

Get your stuff back, be a man and go over there with a police officer if need be and get it back. Just get it so you can move on, which part of me thinks you still won't even after she gives it to you. If it were me, I would have given up on getting my stuff and wrote it off as a lesson learned

Maybe she is going out to clubs with new friends because that is who she is. Could be she has discovered who she is.
At any rate, get a friend to pick up your stuff, if that does not work, get a court order and be done with it.

Ok everyone, thank you for your support.

BUT: how easy do you think it is for me to just move on? You say it's immature of me constantly checking her Facebook profile.. Ok, I know it sets me back.. But, it's natural, isn't? You've been through what I'm going now, don't say you never did what I'm doing now.

Do you think it's appropriate for me to give her a court notice? Shouldn't I try to get my stuff back my sending a friend of mine first?

The most important thing I want back is "the ring" I gave her when we got engaged.. It cost me 3K.. And just to give you some extra info: we are NOT American, we come from Western Europe, and according to our culture, when an engaged couple breaks up, the woman SHOULD give the man back the RING.. And this is a MUST.. Don't know if you do the same in the US, but that's what we do here in our country.. It's just common sense, it's a principle we are taught from our early years..

Hell, I want my ring back.

Then let her know you are having a friend pick it up and if she does not comply you will get a court order. She will know how serious you are then.
Stop looking at her page, its juvenile.

In the US, it is custom to give the ring back, if she calls the engagement off. If he does, they usually keep it(read it somewhere). Dude, my ex still has A LOT of jewelry that I bought her, a ring, Tiffany's bracelet's, necklaces, diamond necklace along with tons of other stuff.

As for the facebook/myspace. Yes, I did it, but only until January 1st, then I made it my New Years resolution and never went back on during NC. To this day I rarely visit her page, no desire too.

Glad to hear that in the US is imperative for her to give back the ring! Same culture, same ideas. Straight to the point.

Romefalls, did you ever ask your ex to give you back the jewellery you bought for her?

You know, it's not that I want the ring back, just to give it to another woman if I ever get engaged again. Hell, no. I'll buy another ring for the next woman I'll get engaged to.

It's just that I don't want her to keep it 'cause she doesn't desrve it. She dumped for silly reasons, and now she gives me the impression that she keeps the ring just because of its high value. Doesn't she have any dignity left? She promised she would give it back.

Yep, several times I asked for it. She still wears some of the jewelry to this day

Oh God.. Why didn't you ever go with the 'court'-solution?

If she isn't committing to the marriage that ring is yours. What is your court system like? Here in the US we can take her to small claims court for that ring. Or you can speed things up and send your friend over today.

Facebook stuff, yes I've done. But it sets you back and is not healthy which is why we are telling you not to do it. You are correct, we have been where you... we also know how to get out and away from it which is what we are trying to impress upon you.

If she's not going to cooperate use every legal avenue possible. She's playing games and thinks you don't have it in you to get serious and stand up for yourself so she keeps toying with you. Why don't you win this last one and show her she has no idea who she is dealing with and get serious about it. Go over with a cop and get it (if they do that where you are at) or take her to court. The relationship is over at this point, you've got nothing left to put up with this for anymore.

I just wrote it off as a lesson learned. A hard pill to swallow but it was better than reopening wounds

Rome can clarify this, but from what he writes here the jewellery was a gift during the relationship. The engagement ring is given for the hand in marriage. That piece of jewellery is different then a necklace or earrings, because if she accepts it she's accepting the marriage proposal. If she accepts it and later backs out, then she has no rights to the ring.

Ok everyone, thank you for your support.

BUT: how easy do you think it is for me to just move on? You say it's immature of me constantly checking her facebook profile.. Ok, I know it sets me back.. But, it's natural, isn't? You've been through what i'm going now, don't say you never did what i'm doing now.

Do you think it's appropriate for me to give her a court notice? Shouldn't I try to get my stuff back my sending a friend of mine first?

The most important thing I want back is "the ring" I gave her when we got engaged.. It cost me 3K.. And just to give you some extra info: we are NOT American, we come from Western Europe, and according to our culture, when an engaged couple breaks up, the woman SHOULD give the man back the RING.. And this is a MUST.. Don't know if you do the same in the US, but that's what we do here in our country.. It's just common sense, it's a principle we are taught from our early years..

Hell, I want my ring back.

Yep, you definitely get the ring back. Get a court order. It's normal to want to know what the other person is doing... but it serves you no good purpose to stalk her and see that she's doing what you are not- living life again.

Yep, I agree with Chuff. I would certainly make every effort, friendly and legally to get that ring back. The rest, I would write off as a lesson learned

Some people don't back the ring. Is it right--no but that is why we have small claims court like Chuff said.

I have jewlery that was given to me as gifts for Christmas, birthdays, V-day, etc. I never returned it after a break-up.

However, I would return give back an engagement ring back to someone if we didn't get married. It is the right thing to do but everyone doesn't think that way.

Just to give further input, my fiancé who was married before returned both rings. And happily if I may add

Just to give further input, my fiance who was married before returned both rings. And happily if I may add

This subject is kind of ironic. I was out with a friend on Saturday night, and she told me when she got divorced she not so happily threw both rings into Tampa Bay. I like my friend and all, but this is not where you want your rings to wind up, so get them back legally before something like this happens to you.

Just to give further input, my fiance who was married before returned both rings. And happily if I may add

She probably was relieve given the history she had with this guy. Because if I was her I would have gladly gave him back the rings too.

She stopped wearing them in 2006, when she finally rid herself of him stalking her she gave them back to him and then he went to flip out about how I bought her a bigger ring to show him up.

You're right Liz, with her history, she was EXTREMELY happy to get done with him. Besides the girls of course

Next thing I'm going to do is call a friend of mine who is a lawyer and ask whether I can file such a case, or not.

Do you think it is possibe she's keeping my stuff because she's having emotional trouble giving them back? She hasn't even returned 2 pieces of clothes I asked back.

Sometimes you have to take a loss. Clothes are something that be replace. Any thing you gave her as a gift you won't get back and this includes money.

However, an engagement ring is different especially since the two of you didn't get married.

Be lucky you didn't lose much more because some people have lost thousands of dollars from a relationship and they would never see that money again. Don't be to petty and think if it is really worth it because if it isn't your only prolonging your healing process.

liz I completely understand what your point is. Of course I know we could have even got married, have children, etc. It could be much worse.

But, the ring issue is something I can't tolerate. One way or another, I'm going to get it back.

It's just that she now keeps it just to show it off at the night clubs where she is now hanging out. It's a matter of my own dignity. Be sure that as soon as I'll receive, I'll either throw it away, or I'll donate it to somebody else, I don't want it because of its value.

No way I'm going to keep it to give to the next woman I'm going to propose to.

Threads merged and edited.


Hi all,



Problem is that now I'm all alone, in a foreign country, where they don't even speak English, I have no friends here. I am completely alone. I don't even have some member of my family to support me. My life suddenly became miserable: I wake up in the morning, go to work, then return to my empty apartment. Boring, depressing. The worst part is that even I wanted to, I can make no friends. There are no opportunities for socializing here. I live in a small place, I'd call it a village. Quite isolated.

I'll stay here for at least 1 more year. When I decided to come work here, I did so bearing in mind her promise: that she would be with me, that we could go through this together. But now: she left...

Why stay there if u hate it so much?

If you don't like it, why do you stay? Is it maybe because you think she will come back?

Coz it's a really big opportunity for my career. And I mean big. Huge. And that's why we decided to come live here for 2 years.

I can't let this opportunity go, just because of a woman. It's just that I feel abandoned. All alone. No friend to speak to. I hate her for what she did.

So if you want to stay then it is time for you to get out and socialize. Start meeting people, make friends.

I am unsure where your at but try this site. You can join a group your interested in and make friends. I belong to a group there and we all get together 2 times and week and go out. We go on trips, lounges, bowling, plan things with our kids, etc. Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com (http://www.meetup.com) They are national and have groups all over the world.

Also, I just hope you aren't staying there for all the wrong reasons.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If you are making this choice career wise, then you mine as well make the best out of a bad situation.

Find some things to do there. Listen to Liz28's suggestions (had to spread rep).

Is there a gym that you can go workout at? Sports?

I'm doing all sorts of things one can imagine: I hit the gym 3-4 times/week, my parents sent me a Wii console, I'm reading books, I take long walks along the beach, etc..

But: no social life.. Any activity I take up, I'm all alone.. Options here are limited! How can I socialize in a place where they do not speak my native language, not even English? I live in a small town of China.. Guess what: if you say "hello", you receive weird looks/responses, as if you came from Mars..

The only option I have is a city nearby, bigger than the one I live in, where there are expats living there, but I need 1.5 hour driving to get there.. (1.5 + 1.5 return = 3hrs total).. And what can I do? Just go to a bar drinking beer all by myself?

Extra info: I won't stay here forever.. Total duration of the project is 2 years, already the first year passed, 1 more to go.. (and this might answer the question some of you might have: that my fiancée maybe left because she got too afraid to stay here forever: no, she knew that next year we would return... & get married)

What a great opportunity to learn the native language, and find out what the natives do for fun, besides drinking alone.

That year will pass by much easier if you shuck the excuses, and get proactive with what you have, just be creative, and open minded.

I realize the break up may have your attitude in the dumps, but its up to you to get on with reality, and not dwell in the negative.

Dude, do you know how many people wouid love to have a great job and live in a unique place for 2 years? Or just one of those? Screw her this is your time and it's the best thing to happen to you. Now instead of coming back home and reporting to her you've got the chance to explore a different land and culture. How are you not learning Mandarin? The best way to learn a language is to live where it is spoken. Focus on that and take something of value back home with you.

Good advice there, thanks all of you. Do you think it's appropriate to just go to a bar where expats gather, and start drinking all by myself, hoping I will make new friends out of the blue?

It's not me, I don't feel like doing it, never done it before. But, I need friends. Desperately. What options do I have?

I've thought about registering on one of those meeting/socializing websites, but these only include major cities around the world, not a chance to find a friend/partner close to me.

The only option I have is a city nearby, bigger than the one I live in, where there are expats living there, but I need 1.5 hour driving to get there.. (1.5 + 1.5 return = 3hrs total).. And what can I do? Just go to a bar drinking beer all by myself?


Good advice there, thanks all of you. Do you think it's appropriate to just go to a bar where expats gather, and start drinking all by myself, hoping I will make new friends out of the blue?

It's not me, I don't feel like doing it, never done it before. But, I need friends. Desperately. What options do I have?

I've thought about registering on one of those meeting/socializing websites, but these only include major cities around the world, not a chance to find a friend/partner close to me.



Its not a coincidence, nobody but you has suggested sitting around drinking. Hmm wonder what the natives do with their time?

I would think sitting around a bar drinking would be a mistake. When you are going through a rough time, when you are emotionally vulnerable I don't think sitting around drinking is the smartest thing to do.

Go to work, learn the language, learn the city, some things about the area you're living in. Are there museums? Do the people you work with socialize with each other? Do you have neighbors?

There are 5-6 expats I work with, but they are different age group: over 55-60, all of them. So I guess there isn't much to discuss with these guys, apart from work-related issues.

What I'm looking for is some people of similar age with me, that I'll be able to discuss things of mutual interest to us. I think that's impossible here. It's something natural, every normal person would look for it.

Anything I do, any activity I take up (and there are plenty I have, already), is boring without a friend to share it with. I guess I'm cursed to live with it, until I get back to my home country.

Did you ever try the site I posted for you?

Have you ever seen the movie "Man Date"? Watch it (it is hilarious) because you need one. But the site I posted isn't for that but it seems like the movie sort of fits your situation.

You need to make some adjustment, so you can learn, and grow, instead of dismissing what you have right in front of your blind A$$! No wonder your miserable, and have nothing to do.

[F]I definitely think you should go for the first move because she obviously is waiting on you. Maybe she thinks that you've taken the situation a bit to seriously and that she might have done a mistake that could have never crossed her mind, yet did. If I were you, I'd do the first move because you never know what could happen unless you try.

[F]I definitely think you should go for the first move because she obviously is waiting on you. Maybe she thinks that you've taken the situation a bit to seriously and that she might have done a mistake that could have never crossed her mind, yet did. If I were you, I'd do the first move because you never know what could happen unless you try.

Uhm... please read the entire thread... not just the OP'd question... A LOT has happened since then. You are new to AMHD, so I didn't rate a disagree... just be sure to read through threads all the way before posting...

[F]I definitely think you should go for the first move because she obviously is waiting on you. Maybe she thinks that you've taken the situation a bit to seriously and that she might have done a mistake that could have never crossed her mind, yet did. If I were you, I'd do the first move because you never know what could happen unless you try.

Are you serious?

There are 5-6 expats I work with, but they are different age group: over 55-60, all of them. So I guess there isn't much to discuss with these guys, apart from work-related issues.

What I'm looking for is some people of similar age with me, that I'll be able to discuss things of mutual interest to us. I think that's impossible here. It's something natural, every normal person would look for it.

Anything I do, any activity I take up (and there are plenty I have, already), is boring without a friend to share it with. I guess I'm cursed to live with it, until I get back to my home country.
You have a wealth of information and experience right under your nose and you don't even realize or appreciate it. You'd be surprise the fun and experience that can be gained hanging our with people that age. 55-60 is not old.
I think you just want to zone out and play the remainder of your time there instead of growing and learning.
You ever hear the expression "bloom where you're planted"? You have been place in a situation that can be the agent for wonderful changes in your life. Get your head out of your butt so you can see it. Stop thinking no one has anything to offer you unless they are younger and female. Maybe even think about what you can offer someone else not your age or female.
I wish you well

Buddy... I feel for you... hell, I changed my life plans more than once for a girl and lived to regret it... you are better than me... you are still there...

Look... you are hurting and you are making her being gone be the reason you are miserable... where you are is where you would have been with her or without her. Do your best to take in all you can.

no... its not going to fill that "empty spot" and its not a substitute for another partners attention... but really... you need to take in your time there as an opportunity...

What is one of the biggest turn ons about any new relationship? I'm asking the OP'er...

What is one of the biggest turn ons about a new relationship... starts with an "M"... ends in a "Y"...

[to be continued]

Ok, got some updates!

A female friend of mine just dropped by, and asked for my stuff back, and guess what she said! "oh, i'm sorry, nobody gave me any notice to prepare the stuff, unfortunately i've put them in the basement!!".. I asked a thousand times for my stuff back, and she places them in a box in the basement?

Anyway, my friend left, 10 minutes later she called her on her mob, and asked her if she could please go to the basement to gather my stuff, and she did.. Gave back the ring, all other engagement gifts, BUT: she (intentionally?) forgot to give back my clothes.. What's wrong with this girl? I can't understand what she's thinking.

Don't worry about it. Move on. She gave you back your ring. Maybe she has not even thought about your clothes.

You are a free man. Clothes are going to go out of style. Forget them, you got the ring and your freedom with it.

Yes, I am!

Do you think there's no point trying to figure out every single move of her? Am I over-analyzing things? You know how it goes: we broke up, don't want to see her again, actually kind of "hate" her, but still, there is a small, tiny hope that she still wants to be with me, despite the fact she's playing games.

On the other hand, I'm thinking that if she'd really love me, she would come back immediately.. Love isn't about playing mind games, is it?

I always thought that my relationship was special because we never, ever played those stupid childish games.. Will I ever find again a partner that won't play games & love me truly, unconditionally? Or should I get used to the fact that -nowadays- it's common practice for people to play games?

Do you think there's no point trying to figure out every single move of her? Am I over-analyzing things?

Do yourself a favour and let go and move on. Don't think about her anymore, it will only hold you back from doing the things you want to.


You know how it goes: we broke up, don't wanna see her again, actually kind of "hate" her, but still, there is a small, tiny hope that she still wants to be with me, despite the fact she's playing games.

Happens to everyone. Get rid of that hope, and someone better will walk into your life. If you don't, you won't know if they walk right pass you because you will always be thinking of the ex.


On the other hand, I'm thinking that if she'd really love me, she would come back immediately.. Love isn't about playing mind games, is it?

Correct. Not immediately though. What if she doesn't come back? Will you still be waiting for her?


I always thought that my relationship was special because we never, ever played those stupid childish games..

So did everyone else when they broke up with their ex. No one likes breaking up but it happens. You are blinded by emotions that's why you think its special but over time you ll start to think its not as special as you once thought it was.


Will I ever find again a partner that won't play games & love me truly, unconditionally?

Yes you will but there are steps you will have to take. Step one, forget the ex.


Or should I get used to the fact that -nowadays- it's common practice for people to play games?

Love shouldn't be about playing games. If you find love, you won't have to worry about it.

Yes, I am!!

Do you think there's no point trying to figure out every single move of her? Am I over-analyzing things? You know how it goes: we broke up, don't wanna see her again, actually kind of "hate" her, but still, there is a small, tiny hope that she still wants to be with me, despite the fact she's playing games.

On the other hand, I'm thinking that if she'd really love me, she would come back immediately.. Love isn't about playing mind games, is it?

I always thought that my relationship was special because we never, ever played those stupid childish games.. Will I ever find again a partner that won't play games & love me truly, unconditionally? Or should I get used to the fact that -nowadays- it's common practice for people to play games?
I think you need to accept the fact that she no longer wants to be with you.
Was she and is she playing a game? I don't know. It could be that she just got tired of waiting around for you. 7 years is a long time to be dating someone and then a two year engagement. Maybe she was going to just keep you hanging on for a while.
At any rate, move on. Let this go!

First... when the sh!t hits the fan, there isn't a lot of reasoning involved when trying to figure out the splatter pattern...

Good relationships sometimes crash and burn. Been there at least twice. Where what seemed logical and normal and good turned completely f'ed up beyond all reasonable expectations... doesn't mean it wasn't good while it lasted... just means the ending took a bloody turn that wasn't expected.

Breakups can really, really screw with you. And her. And all of it.

As for playing games... don't know what to say there...

Stop elevating this past relationship to some supreme level. What? Would it be worse to be with a girl who played some "mind games" but who loved you endlessly and faithfully??

Sorry bub... I've had too many girls cheat on me when "things were good"... does that mean I expect mind games and cheating?

Nope.

I expect my partner to be toe to toe with me... and if that doesn't happen now... well... I still think it'll happen.

So don't play the victim.

Stop with the "will i ever find another girl who is true" noise.

I've been there... right where you are. It suck big rocks. And yes... you will find other girls who will try to be true.

The connection you have with each new partner is different... you won't ever have "the same connection" as you did with the last girl...

And as for the "if she really loved me" noise...

I believe some love is meant for a time, but not all time.

What really hurts is that she never gave me any good signal of her being bored with our relationship. At least I would be expecting it, I'd be prepared for it.

And, what also hurts, is that during those 7 years, she was always this pretty cute girl, that was polite to everyone, shy, she never -ever- hated anyone, she would forgive everybody for their mistakes, She had a VERY big heart (or at least, I thought so -maybe she was pretending? I dunno)

So, what hurts, is that suddenly she became this arrogant, selfish, revengeful woman. When I say suddenly, I mean it. It's OK for people to change. But not so suddenly.

Please give me your opinion about this: guess what she also did on facebook: she added a new friend: a guy my older sister was dating for 8 years. My sister broke up as soon as I met my girlfriend, 7 years ago. Hence my ex & this guy only met 1-2 times. She even roughly could remember what his name was -let alone what his last name was-.. So HOW they hell did she find him on Facebook, and WHY did she add him on her friend's list? This guy lives 500 miles far from where my family & my ex live, not a chance they had a mutual friend or something. They were complete strangers.. What is wrong with my ex?)

Sorry for the big post. It's just driving me crazy. I look forward to hear your thoughts.

What really hurts is that she never gave me any good signal of her being bored with our relationship. At least I would be expecting it, I'd be prepared for it.

And, what also hurts, is that during those 7 years, she was always this pretty cute girl, that was polite to everyone, shy, she never -ever- hated anyone, she would forgive everybody for their mistakes, She had a VERY big heart (or at least, I thought so -maybe she was pretending? I dunno)

So, what hurts, is that suddenly she became this arrogant, selfish, revengeful woman. When I say suddenly, I mean it. It's ok for people to change. But not so suddenly.

Please give me your opinion about this: guess what she also did on facebook: she added a new friend: a guy my older sister was dating for 8 years. My sister broke up as soon as I met my girlfriend, 7 years ago. Hence my ex & this guy only met 1-2 times. She even roughly could remember what his name was -let alone what his last name was- .. So HOW they hell did she find him on Facebook, and WHY did she add him on her friend's list? This guy lives 500 miles far from where my family & my ex live, not a chance they had a mutual friend or something. They were complete strangers.. What is wrong with my ex?)

Sorry for the big post. It's just driving me crazy. I look forward to hear your thoughts.

I already advised you to get rid of her on Facebook or myspace...

Its your own fault for checking it. You say you are starting to move on, when obvioisly you are not. Stop all the confusion, hurtfullness, anger whatever you may be feeling by no contacting what so ever including social networks like Facebook. -_-

How old are you and how old is she? First big loves or not? Sorry if its been talked about already.. I try to answer a lot of posts and that sometimes means not running through every detail of every thread...

Mkay... you are 31... took me a minute to come back to this thread and all the details... sorry about that... I've followed this from the start but had a momentary lapse of brain activity...

Look... I think you are hurting, which is fine...

But honestly, you are overanalyzing the who is on her Facebook or not BS...

I'm sorry...

You can always find "bad news" when you are looking for it... so she added a guy on her Facebook.

Mkay.

I think you aren't over her or aren't over her being over you and you are searching for things to explain the possibly unexplainable...

You are going overboard here. Get off Facebook. Step back. Step away from the trainwreck. Or not. Its up to you...

People find other people on Facebook all of the time, it means nothing. I have male friends on my page. I'm not dating them or after them, they are friends.
This woman was tied to you for 7 years and now she is not. She is moving on with her life.
I still think she got tired of quietly waiting on you and decided it's been long enough.
Stop looking at her page, stop trying to figure her out. Move on with your life.

Firstly, I should remind you that our plan was to get married next year. We had a very specific plan about our lives, she wasn't waiting for me to decide a date to get married.

Moreover, it's not a random guy she added on her list on Facebook. It's THIS guy, who she knows that is my family's enemy, he did very bad things to my sister, my ex knew everything about it. This guy was a disgusting stupid guy, my sister hates him.

So, that's why I'm wondering. Why the he! Did she add him on Facebook. It reveals a very revengeful personality, as if she wants to become friends with my enemies. As if she hates my family.

Why were you guys dating for so long? You said you had very specific plans. Were they your plans or hers. You said she was very shy. You said you were getting married next year, that would have been 8 years, that is a longtime.
Who knows why she added this guy. How long ago was it that he dated your sister?
Maybe it means nothing more that she added him as a friend. Is she supposed to base all of her friendships on you and your family?
I think you are reading way too much in to this. Let it go.

Ungh...

I give up.

You are way to into what her motives/intentions/schemes are.

Again... I've lost more than a few big loves along the way... but I've been able to cut the ties hard and swiftly... I have little patience for wondering about a person who has done you wrong...

Wish I could help... going to unsub from this thread... I just don't get the obsessive and relentless wondering...

You're right. I should give up. Just wondering about small weird things she does. Anyway, thanks for your advice. It's been really helpful I found AMHD, I finally discovered that break ups happen all the time.. I thought I was the only one.. lol :) Thanks all of you, you've got truly big hearts

Just one more question..

How "final" is the first break up a couple goes through? I mean, statistically, couples that get married, don't they every go through a major break-up before marriage? My cousin broke up for 1 year (yes, 12 months, no contact, no nothing) before getting married. And now, they are as happy as any can imagine.

Also got a friend that broke up for 3 months, then got back together.

I mean, should I have any hope? Happy couples are always happy? Don't they ever get through tough periods where they need a break?

I don't think things will ever be the same with you two. You say she has changed, may be she has found herself and the relationship has run it's course.
I think you need to just let it go.

Just one more question ..

Which is the same question you've been asking in a different format.


I mean, should I have any hope?

No. It's over. It's done. It will never be again. She is gone. She has no interest in you. Ever.

You need this site right now and I don't want to be the guy to run you off but you are not asking any new questions. You are asking the same question 35 different ways. Now you are still in shock and denial but you need to stop this. Not stop posting, but stop the same question. IT IS OVER. Stop asking if you have a chance. You don't. Nor should you even offer one at this point. You can get a lot of benefits from the sticky's and learn from other situations. But in your case you need to come to terms with this. It is done. Do at least this for yourself and accept that it is over so you can move forward, because right now you are just spinning the tires.

My question was very specific. And I don't think I have been asking the same question over and over again.

I asked: statistically, most of the couples, don't they go through a major break up before ending up married? I repeat: most couples, not all.

Please don't attack a desperate person that is emotionally vulnerable and unstable & can't think clearly. You've been through this yourselves, you know how it feels. And I'm most proud of myself, that I'm going through all of this all alone, with no one except myself to support me.

My question was very specific. And I don't think I have been asking the same question over and over again.

I asked: statistically, most of the couples, don't they go through a major break up before ending up married? I repeat: most couples, not all.

Your question was another way to ask if you were going to get back together.


Please don't attack a desperate person that is emotionally vulnerable and unstable & can't think clearly.

You were not attacked. You were given a straight answer that pierced those emotions. I don't think I'd call you unstable either. You are seeking answers which I don't think most unstable people do.


You've been through this yourselves, you know how it feels. And I'm most proud of myself, that I'm going through all of this all alone, with no one except myself to support me.

First you are not alone, you have a wealth of information and help from people at this site. Alone is a feeling that comes after the break up, but you have been at point in your life before where there was no woman and were not feeling alone. This is temporary and will pass but in order for that to happen you have to stop asking if you'll get back together and start focusing on the most important person in your life and that's you.

My question was very specific. And I don't think I have been asking the same question over and over again.

I asked: statistically, most of the couples, don't they go through a major break up before ending up married? I repeat: most couples, not all.

Please don't attack a desperate person that is emotionally vulnerable and unstable & can't think clearly. You've been through this yourselves, you know how it feels. And I'm most proud of myself, that I'm going through all of this all alone, with no one except myself to support me.

Answer: Who cares? That's besides the point. If its meant to work out it will, if its not you got to cut your loss and move on but it is not for you to decide if it works out or not. It is time that decides it.

Actually if you must know, you are actually driving her further away. Girls like confident guys who don't need them to happy, who are not desperate, who have a life of their own. You are not only ruining your chances to get back with her, but also attracting another girl. So go on with your life and let her go and be happy on your own and don't expect a reunion.

If you can't accept that just yet, than you need to do whatever you have to and learn things the hard way. Go beg, make promises, take her out for dinner and you ll see that the only thing you ll end up with is less money in your pocket.

Please don't attack a desperate person that is emotionally vulnerable and unstable & can't think clearly.

That the way you see It? You aren't being attacked, but you will get some strong suggestions.


You've been through this yourselves, you know how it feels.

Thats a fact, so pay heed when we don't answer some of your questions with what you want to hear.


And I'm most proud of myself, that I'm going through all of this all alone, with no one except myself to support me.

Welcome to reality, its darn hard sometimes, and if we didn't care.............we wouldn't bother. So your not going thru this alone, are you?

You know what is weird? I do know that your answers are correct. But for some reason it's tough for me to accept them as correct. It's a tricky game of my mind, I know.

Anyway, thanks for your help. Guess I should try to really move on. Even if she comes back now, I don't want to be with her any more. I have no feelings for her, after what she has done. There are plenty of ways to break up after a 7-year relationship. Some ways are good, some are bad. She chose the bad one.

You know what is weird? I do know that your answers are correct. But for some reason it's tough for me to accept them as correct. It's a tricky game of my mind, I know.

I know that you know we are correct. I've been exactly where you are at, and I've wanted to believe that everybody else was wrong and this was different. But the realtiy is you always know it's not different. It's a hard to accept just that fact alone, because you know that once you do your life is changing forever and things will never be the same. That's not a bad thing but it seems like it when your facing it. Give yourself some credit, your in shock, you were caught off guard, and you are dealing with a range of new emotions that took you by surprise.


Anyway, thanks for your help. Guess I should try to really move on. Even if she comes back now, I don't wanna be with her any more. I have no feelings for her, after what she has done. There are plenty of ways to break up after a 7-year relationship. Some ways are good, some are bad. She chose the bad one.

Exactly. After 7 years she has the right to break up with you, but you were owed some respect while doing it. She's was a coward to the end and that should not be something you have to accept.