My niece lived in California with her boy friend. She got pregnant in CA but did not find out until she had moved to Minnesota to live with her boy friends parents. The baby is now 1 month old and she is nursing the baby and not working. The father is working and is on the birth certificate. They are not married but are living together in Minnesota at his parents house. My niece wants to come for a visit but he says she can not take the baby with out his permission. He is abusive to her and the baby. He has yelled in the baby`s ear and threatened to spank him because he would not be quiet. She has not reported the abuse and his parents are either not aware and/or do not care. He does not care for the baby except financially. All of the father`s family live in Minnesota and all of the mother`s family live here in California. We told her to come for a 'visit' and then to fight him for custody in the cA courts. We bought her a plane ticket for 5/6/2009 before we knew he was going to find out and or suspect that she was not coming back. Any advise to give her and or us would be most appreciated. Thank you Aaron

You need to consult an attorney before you find yourself on the losing end of a whopping lawsuit.

Moving to CA will not necessarily change the jurisidction of the custody case. Since the father is on the birth certificate and providing financial support, then he has at least joint custody. So if she movesd and he stays, its more likely that MN would have jurisdiction.

By encouraging her to sneak out on him, you open yoruself to a lawsuit for alienation of affections.

I klnow you want to help, but you would be better off paying for her to have an attorney in MN get her full custody.

She can come for a visit, ( that is come and go home) but she can not move, or if she does may be ordered to return the child.

Also most likely the MN court will have jurisdiction since that is their residence.

Next she needs to report any possible abuse, she could move out of their home to a place of her own

Your niece should take the baby to ER asap, soon as she can do that safely and without the boyfriend. At ER she should tell the nurses and doctor that the father has yelled into the infants ears and has threatened to spank the baby for not being quiet. This is very important! The hospital will report this abuse to Children's Protective Services and probably assist the mother and child with shelter till the 6th when she can fly back to CA to be with her family. There she can try to file an emergency custody hearing in the CA courts. If that doesn't work she will have to go back and file in MN.

Everyone gave good advice on this thread.

If your niece comes to CA and promptly files a case to establish custody the only basis for the court to assert jurisdiction would be on a temporary emergency basis. If the dad were to file a case in MN within 6 months of her departure he would lock in custody jurisdiction in MN. Even an emergency order issued in CA would probably expire in a short time and eventually the mom would end up having to return to MN to litigate the issue.

She can come for a visit of course. But she should be mindful of keeping the dad advised of her whereabouts. As I said, this looks like a case that is going to have to be handled in MN.

Probably the easiest(safest) thing would be to call the police, report the abuse and seek a restraining order against the father.

Probably the easiest(safest) thing would be to call the police, report the abuse and seek a restraining order against the father.

Yes. Good answer.

Comments on this post
Sunflowers (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/sunflowers.html) agrees: alienation of affections would be impossible to prove without a magician for a lawyer in this case

I disagree. If the father can show who paid for the plane tickets and even a shred of proof that the CA family encouraged her to come for a visit with the understanding she would apply for custody, that could be easily proved.

Remember, Family Court is generally not a jury trial. So judges rule on law and facts, not emotion.

I think some of the answers here are based on the OP telling the true story. I have the suspicion that while the OP may believe it, I'm not sure its 100% factual. I'm looking at the fact that The OP is in CA while everyone else is in MN. So the OP's only knowledge of the situation is what was learned from the mother. A mother who is claiming abuse but has done nothing about it. And yes I know that abused women are often in denial and don't report things.

On the other hand Sunflower and Steve have the right idea. She NEEDS to report what is happening to the authorities. If she doesn't do that its like it hasn't happened. Then if the OP tries to insert a wedge between them, they can become the bad guy.

Comments on this post
Sunflowers (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/sunflowers.html) agrees: alienation of affections would be impossible to prove without a magician for a lawyer in this case

I disagree. If the father can show who paid for the plane tickets and even a shred of proof that the CA family encouraged her to come for a visit with the understanding she would apply for custody, that could be easily proved.

Remember, Family Court is generally not a jury trial. So judges rule on law and facts, not emotion.

I think some of the answers here are based on the OP telling the true story. I have the suspicion that while the OP may believe it, I'm not sure its 100% factual. I'm looking at the fact that The OP is in CA while everyone else is in MN. So the OP's only knowledge of the situation is what was learned from the mother. A mother who is claiming abuse but has done nothing about it. And yes I know that abused women are often in denial and don't report things.

On the other hand Sunflower and Steve have the right idea. She NEEDS to report what is happening to the authorities. If she doesn't do that its like it hasn't happened. Then if the OP tries to insert a wedge between them, they can become the bad guy.

A couple things:
Only a few states in the United States still allow alienation of affection lawsuits.
These states, as of 01/2008, are: Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah.

They are not married so I doubt the very difficult to prove situation of alienation of affections even applies since no one stole a spouse.

Also, most men alienate their own wives when they scream into their babies ears and threaten to hit them when they aren't quiet. That alone is enough to alienate MOST women. Besides, they are not married. She is not his wife.

CLARIFY: I don't mean to say MOST MEN alienate their wives. I meant to say that when a father/husband screams into his infant's ear it usually alienates the mother/wife

I'm not referring as much to the mother as the child. Alienation of affection may not be the correct legal phrase, but when a third person drives a wedge between a parent and their child, there may be grounds for a suit. And again, we don't know for sure if the OP is telling the true story.

Also, most men alienate their own wives when they scream into their babies ears and threaten to hit them when they aren't quiet. That alone is enough to alienate MOST women. Besides, they are not married. She is not his wife.

Do you have proof ? I don't think this is even close to the truth nor is it even a guess. Sounds like spitefull sexizm to me.

Thank you everyone. I told her that she should report the abuse. And she said she It`s not that bad, he has gotten better, I don`t want to get him in trouble. I do not know what she is going to do. She wants to talk to him and see if he will let her come for a visit with no trouble. Then file in court in CA. She said if that does not work she will go to the ER and report the abuse.

Abused women often protect the abuser. After men blacken the women's eye, leaves bruises on them and more, they take the rent moneyto bail the man out and won't testify against them, because "they love them"

Who cares if you get him in trouble, if he is abusing a child he needs to be.

Do you have proof ? I dont think this is even close to the truth nor is it even a guess. Sounds like spitefull sexizm to me.

I don't appreciate that. You are accusing me of something YOU cannot prove. I can easily prove that most women would be alienated by their husband who screams into their newborns ears and threatens to hit the baby. A one month old infant is a NEW BORN. Defenseless and very easily injured and human mothers have strong instincts to protect their infants.

Personally I believe fathers are as important to their children as their mothers are, but I am very much against abuse. If the mother was the one abusing the infant and the father asking for help I'd be telling the same advice for him. What are they going to do when the child has a speech delay because he has a hearing deficit due to the abuse of having his tender newborn ears screamed into? Explain to him that they didn't think it was that bad so they didn't need to do anything about it? Do you have proof that I'm a spiteful sexist? If not get off my back.

Comments on this post
Sunflowers (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/sunflowers.html) disagrees: yes I have proof do you have proof that I'm a spiteful sexist?

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Second, In fact, as Chuck pointed out, woman in an abusive relationship do tend to be in denial about it. So, no, I don't think you can prove your statements.

Thank you everyone. I told her that she should report the abuse. And she said she It`s not that bad, he has gotten better, I don`t want to get him in trouble. I do not know what she is going to do. She wants to talk to him and see if he will let her come for a visit with no trouble. Then file in court in CA. She said if that does not work she will go to the ER and report the abuse.

You aren't paying attention. Lying to him to get him to let her come to CA ostensibly for a visit, but to then file for custody is NOT likely to work. If the abuse is so bad that she would consider doing that, then she should be running to the ER, a battered woman's shelter or the local children's service agency.

But this is why I have a problem believing that what she is telling you, is in fact the true story.

aarontra: I recommend reporting your niece and her boyfriend to the MN county child welfare protection agency if your niece is trying to take back the seriousness of "yelling into the baby's ear and threatening to spank". Your niece is in the postpartum period and very vulnerable with her newborn. Occasionally the victim herself will turn around and react violently to the baby. The post-partum period is a time of particular danger to women and infants living with violent males.

I don't appreciate that. You are accusing me of something YOU cannot prove. I can easily prove that most women would be alienated by their husband who screams into their newborns ears and threatens to hit the baby. A one month old infant is a NEW BORN. Defenseless and very easily injured and human mothers have strong instincts to protect their infants.

Personally I believe fathers are as important to their children as their mothers are, but I am very much against abuse. If the mother was the one abusing the infant and the father asking for help I'd be telling the same advice for him. What are they going to do when the child has a speech delay because he has a hearing deficit due to the abuse of having his tender newborn ears screamed into? Explain to him that they didn't think it was that bad so they didn't need to do anything about it? Do you have proof that I'm a spiteful sexist? If not get off my back.

The fact that you had to go back and EDIT your own post proves the point I was making. I had said it SOUNDS LIKE. I didn't say you were. In these forums we have to deal with the written word and sometimes when dealing with delicate subjects we must choose our words carefully. Had I made the same expression as a blanket statement about women then you would be on the same bandwagon as I had done. We all appreciate you being here and trying your best to give advice but sometimes as posters emotions can get in the way. So if you do start making blanket statements try to be prepared to qualify them. Thanks.

You aren't paying attention. Lying to him to get him to let her come to CA ostensibly for a visit, but to then file for custody is NOT likely to work. If the abuse is so bad that she would consider doing that, then she should be running to the ER, a battered woman's shelter or the local children's service agency.


I am paying attention. I am sorry but you don`t understand the situation.
When I called her I did tell her to go to the ER NOW! I told her we would call her a cab and pay for it. I could not convince her.

Sunflowers: Maybe my next step is to report her and boyfriend. I will consult with my sister (her mother).

I do believe the abuse happened and will continue to happen in some form, even if it is not happening right now.

The fact that you had to go back and EDIT your own post proves the point I was making. I had said it SOUNDS LIKE. I didnt say you were. In these forums we have to deal with the written word and sometimes when dealing with delicate subjects we must choose our words carefully. Had I made the same expression as a blanket statement about women then you would be on the same bandwagon as I had done. We all appreciate you being here and trying your best to give advice but sometimes as posters emotions can get in the way. So if you do start making blanket statements try to be prepared to qualify them. Thanks.

Yes I should be especially careful with wording! Sorry and Thanks :o

Yes I should be especially careful with wording! Sorry and Thanks :o

No problem at all. We tend to work as a team here and if one of us is wrong or sounding out of line we police ourselves. Thanks for being here and posting.

Sunflowers: Maybe my next step is to report her and bf. I will consult with my sister (her mother).


If your niece can't/won't go get help she might 'need' you or her mother to make the call for her. Do you mind telling us the ages of your niece and her boyfriend?

If your niece can't/won't go get help she might 'need' you or her mother to make the call for her. Do you mind telling us the ages of your niece and her bf?

This is the bottomline line, despite other issues, Sunflowers has been right all along that if there is abuse it NEEDS to be reported in MN. Running away may work against the mother if there are no prior reports of abuse.

My niece is 20 and her boy friend is 22 or 23.

This is the bottomline line, despite other issues, Sunflowers has been right all along that if there is abuse it NEEDS to be reported in MN. Running away may work against the mother if there are no prior reports of abuse.

Yes it is important that if abuse happened it is reported in MN otherwise the courts will see a claim of abuse as manipulation rather than fact, especially if there are no obvious injuries. Chances are she's going to be allowed to leave the state with the baby for the support of her family since the father is abusing them. But if it isn't reported in MN it won't matter where an Emergency Temp Custody is filed, both MN and CA courts will discount the alleged abuse.

All of the rest of this aside - custody, moving, going back "home" - why would your niece allow the father to abuse the baby and not report the abuse to the Police?

Her responsibilities as a mother include protecting her child.