Am trying to rewire up a ceiling fan with light to ceiling box -- of course, like an idiot, I didn't write down how it was wired before, because, hey, how hard could this be, right?

Ceiling box has these wires:

3 blacks, twisted together
3 white, twisted together
1 red
3 copper grounds

The fan has pull chains for the fan and the light, and a wall switch previously turned power on and off for the whole thing, so depending on where you left the pull chains you could make it so the wall switch turned on the light but not the fan, or the reverse, or both.

The fan / light wires were:

1 black and 1 blue, twisted together
1 white
1 green ground

I tried what seemed the most logical combination from all the info I can find:

Fan black (which I untwisted from blue) to box black
Fan blue (the light wire) to box red
White to white
Ground to ground

The result was the fan turned on and off with the pull chain, the light wouldn't come on at all, and the wall switch was irrelevant, on or off.

So I twisted the fan blue and black together again and tried:

Fan blue and black to ceiling black
White to white
Ground to ground
Capped red

Now the result was I could turn on both fan and light with pull chains, but, again, the wall switch was irrelevant.

Perplexed, I even tried wiring the fan black and blue to the ceiling red and capping the ceiling black just in case, which of course resulted in no power to anything.

Any thoughts?

Logic prevailing, the red wire would be the switch leg, that is the fans black and blue wire should go to the red wire, the ground to the ground, the white to white, and leave the 3 blacks alone. If that doesn't work, you need to trace out the wiring yourself. It's fairly certain that the whites and the ground need to be attached straightforwardly. You need to determine if the red indeed is the switch leg.

Well said

Thanks. The plot thickens.

I unraveled and tested each wire, with these results:

One of the three blacks is hot. The red is not. The wall switch makes no difference to this at all, on or off.

Then there's this twist:

Of the other lights on that circuit, only some come back on now when I turn the power back on.

I am mystified at these differences that seemingly should have nothing to do with rewiring a fan that worked this way before.

Hmm... you are on your way. Are you dealing with cable, or are your wires in conduit? It looks like you will have two of thse wires going to your switch... easy enough to test with a continuity tester of some sort. And if you could send a picture, that may be helpful.

Can't currently see from either end whether cable or conduit back there. For the time being went back to wiring blue and black from fan to blacks in box so at least have a light until I can get back to it later. Other lights on the circuit work once blacks reconnected, so that's what the other two blacks are for. That seems to point back to both the blue and black from the fan should go to the red for the switch, but that didn't work. And when I remove the plate from the wall switch, one of the wires attached to the switch is red, so that too would suggest that's how it should go. Can't figure out what might be going on with the switch.

What else is wired to the switch?

Nothing else.

Let me ask the question differently... other than the red wire, what other color wire is attached to the switch?

Oh, got it. When this is all done I'll have to print out and save this for laughs.

Anyway, the wall switch is wired to red on one side (the red terminates at the switch) and on the other the black runs through the switch (on black stripped along the way for the switch and then connected to the other black with a nut).

Well there you have it. Apparently one of the black wires is the one to the switch as well. So, assuming that both those wires go to the ceiling box, the hot black wire would go to the switch, as it would have been with the 3 blacks twisted together. Then the red wire would be hot when the swtich is on. Assuming (again that the switch works)

Cap off the hot black wire in the box. Turn off the electricity to this circuit. Untwist the rest of the black wires in the box. Remove the switch and tug on the wires a bit to see what wires move. If you can't move them, you will need a tester of some type to check the continuity when the switch is on.

BUT... if all the black wires were tied together and the switch was on, and the red wire was not hot, either the switch is bad, or the wires don't go to where you think they do. If you don't have a white wire in the switch box, you probably have conduit. Should be easy enough to figure out what goes where.

Can't move them. But here's how they come into the ceiling box:

1 cable:

The hot black
One white neutral
One copper ground

Another cable:

The other two blacks
Two whites
Two copper grounds
The red

So the hot black and the red are coming to the ceiling in different cables.

And, by the way, the white is in the back of the switch box.

The way you wired it first should be correct, if you're SURE all the blacks were originally twisted together. Check the switch.

Open the switch and tell us what wires are in the box.

After making do with the pull chains for a while, back to trying to get this working again with the wall switch. Again, the goal is that the wall switch turns power on and off to whole fan and light, but with pull chains can turn light and fan on and off separately -- and other lights on circuit not affected by wall switch.

To answer the last response, the wall switch has red on one side and black on the other. I'm pretty sure blacks were all wired together, but as I said, I didn't write it down and that's not working now, so could some other configuration of the blacks be it? Again, one is hot, the other two not.

Ok, the one cable with the hot black is your supply. The other cable has your switch loop and another black.

Are there any other wires in the switch box besides the two connected to the switch?

Only the red on one side and the black on the other to the switch itself. Behind the switch in the box are two whites connected together.

Ok.. . Do you have a volt meter, and/or ohm meter?

This thread makes my head hurt.

Only the red on one side and the black on the other to the switch itself. Behind the switch in the box are two whites connected together.

Are you sure? Not logical. Did you pull the switch out of the box? If there are 2 white wires connected together in the switch box, there should be another black.

If it helps, Harold, I'm thinking this dude probably has EMT or the like.

"This thread makes my head hurt" -- you and me both! (Or rather, the switch not working does... )

I do have a volt meter.

On Harold's question, again, black comes into box, is stripped for little bit to connect to switch, and continues on to connect to the other black.

Can you take some pictures of the ceiling box and switch box? Maybe a visual would help.

OK, so there is another black. I'll be back in a little while after I have read through this thread entirely.

The black coming into the switch box will be the hot. The black in the switch box that is attached to the switch is taking the hot to the ceiling. The red attached to the switch is the switched leg. The white is the neutral of course.

Of course it is possible that one of the blacks in the ceiling box is the hot and the black to the switch is taking the hot to the switch and then to somewhere else.

It really doesn't matter because either way the black bundle in the ceiling is hot , the red is the switched leg and the white bundle is neutral.

Normally the black of the fan/light is the fan and the blue is the light. Therefore you would connect all of the blacks together, including the fan black. Connect the blue to the red. Connect the white of the fan to the white bundle. The switch will control the light and the pull chain will control the fan.

You said " so depending on where you left the pull chains you could make it so the wall switch turned on the light but not the fan, or the reverse, or both."

I think you are mistaken. I've never heard of such a capability. I think the pull chains are just an on/off for the light and a on/off/speed for the fan. How you physically wire the fan/light would control the function of the switch.

Switches capable of what you describe would be extremely complex electrically, if even possible, and quite complex to operate. However, such a capability would be possible if you have a third pull chain for reversing the operation of the wall switch.

Past difficulties in reconnecting the fan/light have come from confusion and Murphy's law.

I tried what seemed the most logical combination from all the info I can find:

Fan black (which I untwisted from blue) to box black
Fan blue (the light wire) to box red
White to white
Ground to ground

The result was the fan turned on and off with the pull chain, the light wouldn't come on at all, and the wall switch was irrelevant, on or off.



You should consider whether the switch could be defective. Maybe that's why the fan and light wires were both connected to the hot in the ceiling box..

I didn't get that from the post. I interpreted it to mean, you turned power on and off from the switch, and determined the speed/light/reverse settings with the pullchain. This is normal.

In case it helps...

I stand by my conclusions, especially that the switch could be defective.

The switch worked fine before I took the fan down, but I'll replace it just in case there's a strange coincidence here. But here's a new wrinkle: Neither black in the wall switch box is hot. That doesn't change when I turn on the light with the pull chain.

Here's a suggestion.

First turn the power off to the ceiling box at the breaker. Next, set your Ohm meter to 1K Ohms.

Unscrew the three black wires at the ceiling. Place the Red probe on the Red wire. Place the black probe on one of the black wires. Toggle the switch. If the red is the switched leg, then you should see the meter deflect (if it is an analog meter or beep if it is a digital meter). If nothing happens, them move the black probe to the next black wire. In theory, eventually one of the three black wires should react showing the reaction of the switch opening and closing.

If none show a reaction, I would move the meter to the switch and test between the two leads connected to the switch. If nothing happens, replace the switch and then repeat the test at the ceiling. Once you have the switch leg connected properly, then connect the red from the switch to the blue wire on the light fixture. This will cause the light to work off the wall switch.

Take the black from the fan and tie it together with other three blacks. This will leave the fan section a constant hot and allow the fan to be worked by the fan's switch, independently of the wall switch that works the light section.

Turn the breaker back on and lets see if sparks fly or everything works properly.

Do you have all three blacks in the ceiling connected?

I have blk, what and blu from fan, Ceiling I have blk , what and red where does the red go

I've been remiss in getting back with thanks and compliments for all of your help. Harold was right about the switch, which I unraveled by following Don's suggestion. Seems odd that the switch would go bad just then, since I hadn't touched it, but sure enough, I changed it, tied the blacks together and the blue to red, and everything worked as before. Thanks, all.

Flad you finally got it working. It's been quite an adventure.