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I am redoing the bathroom in my basement and I have a question regarding the plumbing. As you can see in this pic I have labeled what I believe to be the vent pipes. My question is that circled in yellow is a unidirectional flow valve. Can someone tell me why it is there?

Also in the far corner I have a shower but it has no vent. Is this because it is wet vented into the main soil line?

My plans are to keep the shower where is it but I will have to relocate the drain a few inches over as the new shower is much bigger. As well the washer and dryer will now be on the other side of the bathroom. I will also be moving the toilette to the other side of the room. The sink will remain in the same place.

I just wanted to know if the directional flow valve is necessary for the washer. Keep in mind I will be relocating the drain to the other side of the room which means I will be feeding it directly into the 4" soil line. Of course I will be running a new vent for the washer that will tie into the existing vent that is shown in this picture.

Thanks for the help

I don't exactly know what you call a "directional valve". But that horizontal pipe on left appears to be a dirt-arm (drain) servicing sink. The vertical pipe it runs into is drain bellow the San T, and vent above the San T.

The directional valve is what is circled in yellow. It is a valve that allows water to only flow in one direction

Hi Pare John:

That unidirectional valve or BACK-FLOW valve is sometimes installed to keep sewer from backing up and out the washing machine drain pipe should the city/town sewer back up or should your own home sewer clog up and back up the drain pipe.

It is not something that is absolutely required, but it is not hurting anything by being there (I have never installed one on a washing machine). It could actually be there more as a clean-out then anything. The fact is that if the sewer pipe does back up it may not show up at the washing machine, but it will show up at the sink or the shower so kind of a pointless valve in this situation. If you re-install it over at the 4" pipe, be sure that it is accessible for the future as these valves can fail over time.

Now, in terms of the shower being wet vented, I'll tell you that I am quite confident that you are right about that if those pipes are 2" pipes. If the lavatory vent is a 2" vent that is usually an indication that the toilet and the shower are wet vented. If those pipes are 1.5" then hopefully there is another 2" vent for the toilet and shower behind another wall... hmmm..?

If you will be moving the toilet across the room and the shower only a few inches you will have a chance to see if the shower is wet vented as the shower vent should connect into the toilet pipe around 5-6 feet from the toilet (or closer).

Anyway, if the toilet isn't vented correctly or there is no vent for the shower pop back and let us know.. glad to discuss venting as you need.

Finally, if you will be cutting into the 4" pipe to install the washing machine be sure to support the pipe well before cutting into it (plastic...right?) and consider installing a 2" pipe, trap and standpipe. They also make a great washing machine box that fits behind a wall and virtually hides all insidee the wall... made by symmons (or others)... see picture. At a minimum please change the washing machine water valve to a single lever shutoff as in my last picture.

Let us know if you need more...

MARK

My question is that circled in yellow is a unidirectional flow valve. Can someone tell me why it is there?
At one time the previous owner had a backup problem that came up in the washer stand pipe. This back up had to come from some other source then the washer pump as the check valve wouldn't prevent this from happening.
You are correct. The pipe on the is a vent and the washer revents back into it. That check valve troubles me. Is anything else discharging into the vent from above that would cause the stand pipe to back up?

Also in the far corner I have a shower but it has no vent. Is this because it is wet vented into the main soil line? If the shower drain's connected to the lavatory drain line the answer's yes.

I just wanted to know if the directional flow valve is necessary for the washer. Keep in mind I will be relocating the drain to the other side of the room which means I will be feeding it directly into the 4" soil line. Of course I will be running a new vent for the washer that will tie into the existing vent that is shown in this picture.
I would leave the check valve off in the new installation.
Good luck, Tom

Oooops... Of course... I somehow missed it first time I was looking at your pic. My apology...

Yes, as Mark explains : it is there to prevent sewer from backing up and overflowing into your laundry. Its presence may indicate sewer problems in the house. If that's the case, than it may bea good idea to leave it there as it is. Do you have frequent sewer back ups?

Thanks for the replies guys.


Now, in terms of the shower being wet vented, I'll tell you that I am quite confident that you are right about that if those pipes are 2" pipes. If the lavatory vent is a 2" vent that is usually an indication that the toilet and the shower are wet vented. If those pipes are 1.5" then hopefully there is another 2" vent for the toilet and shower behind another wall... hmmm..?

The vent that you see in the pic is 1 1/2" pipe.


If you will be moving the toilet across the room and the shower only a few inches you will have a chance to see if the shower is wet vented as the shower vent should connect into the toilet pipe around 5-6 feet from the toilet (or closer).

Doesn't wet venting mean that there is no vent pipe and that the drain pipe becomes the vent? If that is the case then why would the shower connect to the toilet pipe and not right to the main soil line?


Yes, as Mark explains : it is there to prevent sewer from backing up and overflowing into your laundry. Its presence may indicate sewer problems in the house. If that's the case, than it my be good idea to leave it there as it is. Do you have frequent sewer back ups?

In the four years living here I have never had any isuues


If the shower drain's connected to the lavatory drain line the answer's yes.

When I move the toilet I will be shortening its drain line. Does that mean I have to run the drain line longer to reach the now shortened toilet line or can I connect it straight to the main soil line and have it wet vent through there?


Also keep in mind guys that the 4" soil line in the basement serves and the waste line for upstairs. as well the 4" soil line in the basement in running horizontal out to the street

Nope.. wet venting is where a fixture connects into a drain pipe and uses a vent from another fixture to vent the first/second fixture.

For example, a toilet and a shower would be wet vented by a lavatory vent... as long as the pipe size increased to 2" (lav. usually only needs an 1.5" vent). The wet vent would be the lavatory drain line... but the VENT is present at all times. Here, it is assumed that people will not be using the lavatory drain and the toilet or shower at the same time so we can use the lav. Vent to vent each fixture. The increase in 2" is because all toilets require a 2" minimum vent.

So, as stated, the toilet needs a 2" vent. It can use the lavatory vent as a wet vent, but again, the vent would need to be increased to 2" to meet code requirements. Here, you can connect the toilet into the main drain, but you would need to run an individual 2" vent for the toilet (connecting it into a 2" vent or larger in the bathroom) or connect the lavatory drain into the toilet drain pipe.

If never had issues with backups... lose the backflow valve... ;)

Let me know if you want to discuss more. I'll be back on later tonight.

MARK

If the toilet needs a 2"+ vent then why are my vents all 1 1/2". Also I have all the bathroom walls open and I see no other vent lines running up.

Could it be safe to assume that it wet vents through the 4" soil line? in theory the 4" soil line is a vent as it is part of the main stack that connect to the main vent on the roof.

Could it be safe to assume that it wet vents through the 4" soil line? in theory the 4" soil line is a vent as it is part of the main stack that connect to the main vent on the roof. Nice try John, But all codes mandate that you can not discharge a major fixture such as a toilet past a unvented minor one. That means that if you have a toilet or washer discharging upstream from your shower the shower must either have it's own vent or be connected to a drain from a fixture the does have a vent. This is called wet venting. But I like your reasoning. Regards, Tom

YUP... like Speedball said... can't discharge major fixture past unvented fixture... could siphon the trap and allow sewer gasses to enter the home... very unhealthy!

The fact that there are only 1.5" vents only means that the work was most likely not done by a licensed plumber, but as we say around here, "an 1.5" vent is better than no vent at all"... ;) SO I figure you are all set here... until you move that toilet!

Let us know if you have more questions...

MARK

Well the house was build in"89 and the bathroom was build as part of the house. So I am really hoping that the plumber was licensed.

What is funny is that the sink and washer drain pipes that come out of the concrete are 2" but are then reduced to 1.5" when the become vents.

I am going to assume that the shower gets wet vented by the washer and the toilet gets vented by the sink. I have lived in the house for 4 years and the downstairs toilet has always flushed ver well. So I am guessing the 1.5" vent is sufficient enough.

A question I have is what is the max distance a wet vent is allowed to be from a fixture. Example that the toilet is vented by the sink vent. What is the max distance that this vent can be when it junctions with the toilet drain pipe?



Nice try John, But all codes mandate that you can not discharge a major fixture such as a toilet past a unvented minor one. That means that if you have a toilet or washer discharging upstream from your shower the shower must either have it's own vent or be connected to a drain from a fixture the does have a vent. This is called wet venting. But I like your reasoning. Regards, Tom

From what I see the first fixture that is immediately after the upstairs toilet would be the downstairs toilet.

Obviously I will get a clearer picture of how the plumbing is done once I get the concrete broken up. I will be sure to post some pictures this weekend when I get to this step

Hi John...

I am confident that the washer doesn't wet vent the shower as it is illegal (again, in terms of plumbing code) to wet vent any fixture using a washing machine drain or a kitchen sink... ;)

I'm betting that everything is wet vented by the lavatory even if only 1.5".

The maximum distance for what you are doing will be between 5-6 feet between the toilet and the connection for the lavatory.

Lookin' forward to the underground pics... :)

MARK

I would first like to say that I appreciate all the help that you guys are giving.

I am guessing then that the washer has its own vent and that the sink is wet venting the toilet and the shower. (like you had said)

I will get a much clearer picture once the concrete is broken up


Another question I have is if the main home sewage line and the water main inlet into the house run side by side. Meaning if I know where my water inlet comes into the house from the strre does this mean my sewer line to my house runs beside it?

Not necessarily...

I would have you look around the front of the house and see if you can find a MAIN CLEANOUT to the sewer drain. After you locate the cleanout you want to find the first 3" or 4" waste stack in the house and then connect a straight line between the stack and the cleanout.

Most likely, before the concrete was poured, the plumbers came in and laid a straight shot of pipe between the cleanout and the stack. Of course, hard for me to say without seeing all, but this is how it usually gets done!

Glad to help...

MARK

Follow Marks instructions on locating the house cleanout. Now call the Building Department and ask them for the measurements to the street raiuser,( where your sewer connects to the city sewer). Line the two up and you'll have a pretty good idea of where your sewer line's buried. Good luck. Tom

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Ok guys, got all the concrete broken up and this is what I am finding. I would just like to know if you believe that mu assumption of the vent location to be correct. Also I would like to know if I can put the toilet in its new location and if the vent that is there will still properly vent the toilet.

The reason I am not sure if that is a vent is cause it seems to run to the exterior wall which I have gutted and I see no piping in the framing.

Something else that I found funny was that the drain for the sink and washer do not seem to connect to the main 3" in the picture you can see the washer drain and it runs towards the exterior wall, the sink drain seems to do the same as well.

Hi John...

This bathroom is a wet vented bathroom. Look at the picture below. You can see that the reason the vent doesn't go toward the outside wall is because it takes a left turn and picks up the lavatory drain. This drain acts to vent the shower and the toilet and also acts as the lavatory waste and vent.

The lavatory drain and vent should be increased to 2" to make this a legally wet vented bathroom. In terms of the washing machine, it must connect into the 3" drain a little further back underground, but it connects into the 3" drain.

Now, you can see that the new toilet drain runs into the old lavatory drain/vent....not a big deal, but a pain to be sure. Let me know where the washing machine is going in relation to all this and if it will connect into the 3" drain in this bathroom group or what? If you can draw me out everything in relation to each other I can draw it up pretty quick...

Also note that a toilet will rough in at 12" off the rough stud wall giving you an 11.5" rough off the finished wall and a nice tight toilet installation to the finished wall.



MARK

I broke up some more concrete and I discovered exactly what you had said.

Now the washing machine will be on the side where the toilet used to be and I will connect into the 3" pretty much where the toilet elbow is. Of course i will be reducing it to a 2" and it will have its own dry vent that I will T off from the lavatory vent.

Can I sit the toilet right over the 3" and use a T to connect to?

I found out that my drain for the lavatory is only 6 inches away from my 3" so I was thinking of putting some 45's on the lav drain to give me more room to shift to toilet of more toward the exterior wall.

Why would be connecting the toilet in its new location be a pain?

Hi John:

To wet vent this bathroom correctly... including the washer (individually vented as you noted) I would have you pipe it up as drawn below... see picture.

Here, you must use a WYE fitting to connect the toilet... NO sanitary tee fittings allowed on horizontal drain pipes. You could install the wye fitting into a street 90 (90 without a hub) or regular 90 for the toilet.

The toilet and shower will need to be wet vented by the lav. So you need to install a 3"x2" wye for this and then turn to pick up the shower using a 2" long sweep 90, or you can make a long sweep up using 2-45 degree fittings.

In terms of the washing machine and the 3" pipe... plumbing code would have you come out of the ground 3" and then install a 3" dandy cleanout (see pic.). Then reduce out of the 3" cleanout using a 3" cleanout using a 3" bushing and install 2" piping to drain for washer and run that 1.5" bushing and install 2" per foot. The sanitary tee fitting that comes off the lavatory vent needs to be installed so that the fitting is upside down... here, rain water that enters through the vent pipe must follow path that drains back to drains naturally, i.e. that is why the sanitary tee fitting is installed upside sown.

The toilet will no longer be a pain... not since I noticed that this all had to be repiped as drawn below... ;) So no issues there!

Let me know what you think...

.

The pipe nthat you are showing to use a 2" long sweep 90 is the existing washer drain pipe which i do not have access to as it seems to run under the floor in the next room to connect with the 3".

My question is if I can keep the set up the way it is and just branch the toilet off the 3" to its new location. Also where you have placed the toilet is very far off the finished wall.

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Here is what I was thinking, I will use some 45's to move the sink/wet vent line over so that it will give more room for the toilet. Then the toilet will just branch off the 3".

I would like to know if this setup will work. Pretty much everything remains the same except for the new location of the toilet. Also now there will be an additional vent coming before all the fixtures from the washers new location.

My toilet pipe is exactly where you drew your toilet pipe in the last pic. (should be 12" from rough stud as mentioned)...;) I'm a stinker for detail!

In both of the last pics. you are installing the toilet drain without a vent. That is, you cannot install the washing machine pipe using the 3" pipe that goes to the old toilet without adding a vent for the toilet. In this case, it is best to install the lavatory vent using a 3"x2" wye and run pipes as drawn below.

I know it's a stinker...but this is how wet venting works. You cannot discharge a washing machine past an unvented toilet... it will cause all kinds of bubbling/gurgling... promise!

Otherwise, you could install a wye inline of the washing machine drain and then install an individual vent for the shower.

Let me know what you think...

.

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Would this work?

Also when you say the toilet drain should be 12" of the framing is that to the center of the drain pipe? Cause that is how it is now in its old location

Sorry... it will not work. As noted in the drawing below, you need to disconnect and cap one pipe (see circle), and you will notice that the way you have drawn all together will not work in terms of proper plumbing fittings.

I drew it up at my last drawing as fittings would work (posted pic. Again for comparison)... ;)

I also posted another alternative piping arrangement.. see bottom pic.

The 12" from rough stud to center of drain works perfect.

Check out the pic. Below. I noticed the cleanout is not a cleanout but another backflow valve. Remove the cover and check to see if flapper is present. If it is this fitting acts to prevent backflow and acts as a cleanout when accessed through the cover.

Just F.Y.I.

Thanks for the pics, I will be going with your diagram in the last pic, it will work the best for me. However the closet I can get the toilet to the framing is 14" so I am 2" off. Will an offset flange correct this?

Once again I owe you a debt of gratitude. You are been very helpful and patient with my questions.

Once again I owe you a debt of gratitude. You are been very helpful and patient with my questions.
John, You got advice from one of the best! Good luck, Tom

Thanks guys!

John... the pipes aren't deep enough to use an offset flange. Best answer here will be to purchase a 14" rough in toilet. They are available everywhere, but cost more and most have to be ordered unless you purchase from a local plumbing supply company! Why can't you get closer... curious..

Lastly, don't forget to use long sweep fittings for moving that lavatory drain pipe and when you come out of the ground if possible... :)

I will be having a subfloor that will be close to 3" off of the concrete that you see in my pictures. Would this be enough to fit the offset flange?

I can't get any closer as I am limited to the amount of room to place my first 3x3x3 wye.

The way I am going to do it is as follows. put a 3x3x3 wye inline with existing 3" right off that I will have a 3x3x2 wye that will pick up the shower. Then right off that wye will be a 3" elbow to go to the flange.

It's close... purchase the offset flange and dry fit it to see if it will work. If not, you can buy the 14" rough toilet. They are only about $50-00 to $75.00 more than a regular toilet.

Otherwise, all sounds correct... be sure to cap the line between the old toilet line and the old shower pipe... ;)

Finally, you could cut the 45 back a bit more, install a new 45 and then install a street 3" wye...(see picture..can only purchase at a local plumbing supply company). They also sell a street 3"x2" wye and a street 90... ;) All these should get you to within 12"!

Post a final pic. When you're done... OK?

Good luck...

How much depth is needed to use an offset flange?

I can not cut back any further as the pipe goes under a supporting wall where I have no access.

Depends on the offset flange. Best to purchase a street 90, a regular 90 and an offset flange at a local home supply store and dry fit them and see how it works with new floor height.

when you say they sell a street 3x2 wye does that mean the one of the 3" is straight pipe(no collar?) Also do they make a steet 3x3x3 where the arm in the wye is flush?

Also if using an offset flange could i not leave a larger opening in the concrete around the 3" to give me more depth for the offset flange

When I say street 3"x2 it is same as the 3" street wye I posted at post #31... the bottom of the fitting has no hub.

They do not make a 3x3x3 with flush arm.

Yes...leave extra room around the concrete if using the offset flange. Even if using a regular flange you need to leave room so the flange can set down into concrete... although in your case with higher floor it may not be necessary.

Thanks again for you help. It is people like you that make home renovations for the do it your selfer more doable.

I will post pics once I start to lay the new pipe

Glad to help...

Remember grasshopper that your work represents my teachings... be precise and make me proud!

*bows respectfully*... :rolleyes:

Look forward to the pictures... :D

OK well all the plumbing is down and glued. Unfortunately the closet I can get the toilet to the studded wall is 15.5 inch. I oredered a 14 inch toilet today, so that will still leave me with 1.5" of gap. I purchased an offset flange but it will stick up past the subfloor 1 3/4 " My question is can I cut the collar down on both the flange and the closet pipe. The coolars are 1.5" and on the glue it says that you need at least 1/3 of pipe insertion into the collar. So I was going to cut down each collar by about an inch. This will give me 2 more inches of depth for the offset flange.

Also I am figuring with the tile laid I will gain more height as well. Can you tell me an estimation of how much height you gain from sub floor to finished surface floor when laying tile?

Do they make offset flanges with a male end?

Also if you guys have anymore suggestions please let me know.

Thank you

hi John... did you use the street wye fittings?

I didn't say so... but I have taken an inch off each hub before and all worked out fine!

They do not make a male ended offset flange that I know of.

From concrete floor you should plan on about an additional 3/8 to 1/2" max if you are using 12"x12" tiles. Here, is 1/4" thinset mortar compressed a little by the tile which is typically 1/4" to 3/8" depending on tile chosen.

Pick out the tile first to be sure you install flange at correct height!

I'll think on other suggestions...

MARK

John... don't know if this will help, but if you rotate a street 90 to a 45 degree angle then maybe this flange can help. See picture. It is a 45 degree flange... ;)

These will only be available at a plumbing supply store.

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Here are the pics. I still have to put in the ptrap for the shower and bring of the piping and ptrap for the washer.

I ended cutting off about 3/4" from both the collar of the offset flange and the collar of the closet. Nor my flange is flush with the plywood which means I will be more then perfect once the tile is laid.

I have said it before but I will say it again. I owe you a lot of thanks for all the help you have given to me. If you lived closer I would take you out for a good beer and dinner. I will continue to post pics as the renovations progress

Nicely done John

Glad to help... beats hanging' out at the local bar for sure!

Thanks for posting the pics.

MARK

Here is another question. What is the proper method for installing the trap for the shower. I heard that you are supposed to make a box, can you please explain.

Thank you,

You can install the trap before pouring the concrete or after you pour the concrete. If you want to install it before you pour concrete you need to be dead on nuts in terms of the rough in numbers.

If you want to install it afterwards then you need to be damn close but not exactly 100% on for the trap as adjustments can be made after the fact.Either way, you will build a box of 2"x4"s about 12" square, then pin the (stake it off) box around the pipe stubbed up (if trap installed) or where the pipe will go when it goes vertical and then fill the box with dirt for now (loosely). Then pour the concrete patch and let dry.

After the concrete dries you will pry the 2" square, then pin the (stake it off) box around the pipe stubbed up (if trap installed) or where the pipe will go when it goes vertical and then fill the box with dirt for now (loosely). Then pour the concrete patch and let dry.

After the concrete dries you will pry the 2" box out and clear the box of dirt so you can install the shower trap and/or strainer.

When you get ready to install the shower pop back and chat about it with me. I have a few tricks that will save you some time!

well I have the drain rough in measurements. The shower base is a MAXX 48 x 32. It is a center drain. According to MAXX the drain should be roughed in at 23 7/8 and 16.

I am assuming from what you said if I install the trap after I will build my box with the 2" entering the box on the horizontal. Then pour my concrete into the trench. Once concrete is dry I will remove the box and dry fit the trap and get to the desired rough in measurements.

Could I also just back fill my trench install the trap and using the shower base to verify my rough in placement. Once everything looks good back fill the trap box to keep the pipe in the proper position. Then do the concreting.

Also when I put in the trap I am assuming I will bring the finished vertical pipe up a few inches past sub floor for easabilty of final drain install.

Install the trap first and have it so the pipe stubs above the ground 6 inches for now. Then dry fit the shower base (just place it over the pipe without the shower strainer in place) and then level the shower base from front to back and from side to side.

If all lines up after that, remove the base and STILL put that box out around the pipe... stake it to keep it steady.

The you pour the concrete and let it dry.

Then remove the box and install the shower strainer to the shower base. I figure the best drain for this application will be a no-calk shower strainer... see pictures (left one is plastic version of right one in brass... either works here). You will like this strainer as it will simply slip over the long pipe now and later you can cut it down using an INSIDE PIPE CUTTER (see last picture.. sold at home depot, about $10.00).

Then you will need to find out if the manufacturer of the MAAX base wants you to set this in a bedding substrate (structolite, mortar, plaster, etc.). If a bedding substrate is needed then you will set the base in the substrate and level it from front to back and from side to side and let that set up overnight.

Back to you...

Thanks again for the great advice.

Once I cut down the pipe how do I get it secured to the strainer? I am assuming there is a collar that you turn to compresses against the pipe.

When I make my box I am assuming that once everything is lined up that I will back fill the box with crushed stone? Or do I just leave it empty?

Yes Maax suggests putting down some mortar in the corners, cover the mortor with plastic and then lay the base on top and level it out. They suggest doing this to add support.

I am back. Concrete is all poured and I will be laying the new subfloor this weekend. I went to the store and saw the shower drain that you posted pics of. It says on the instuctions that I still need to use pipe cement, is this true? I figured that once you have the pipe cut to length all you would need to do it tighten the rubber collar to make a seal against the pipe.

I'll jump in before Mark comes back: Some drains glue on top of the pipe, but most of them are installed with rubber washer and large nut. I would not use the glue type. The other one is better for your application.

As Milo suggested, you must have the wrong drain because the one I posted only has that rubber washer and nut that slides down over the pipe.

Purchase another one as posted and your job will go smoothly!

MARK

Hey guys,

Well the progress is going great. The subfloor and shower are all installed. I just have a question regarding the shower valve. I purchased a Moen Brantford chrome posi temp tub shower by Moen : (R-CONSUMER:T2153) (http://www.moen.com/ecatalog/detail/brantford/chrome-posi-temp-tub-shower/_/R-CONSUMER%3AT2153) and am trying to figure out how to rough in the valve. I am planning on doing the shower wall with cement board. What is the thickness of cement board? 1/4" or 1/2"? Now looking at the instructions that came with the falve there is a plastic ring called the plaster ground the say this needs to be flush with the finished wall. I am assuming this means the tiled wall? Also is there any room for play or do I need to be exactly flush?

Maybe you guys can take a look at the instructions and let me know. Thanks

Yes the plastic guard should be flush with finish tile surface. No need to be exact, just make sure to stay within a quarter inch either way. I believe cement board comes in different thickness. I usually usually figure 3/8" for cement board.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I also noticed that the valve only accepts threaded fittings. I am assuming this means I have to by a threaded fitting that I can then weld my 1/2" copper pipe into?

The valve is made to have a bathtub spout. Since I will not be using this can I assume all I have to do is plug the exit in the valve that would go to the spout?

Thank you,

Hi John...

That plastic guard needs to be flush with the finish tile as you noted.

The cement board needs to be 1/2" on walls, add 1/8" for thinset mortar (or similar product) and then add the thickness of the tile (usually 1/4", but best to pick the tile to know for sure).

In terms of the threaded fittings, you can PRE-SOLDER your threaded fittings and then screw them into place... OR, you can probably just clean the inside of the threaded fitting and attach copper directly into the valve... ;) To check this, slide in a piece of 1/2" copper to all ports... if fit is tight you just need to remove the stem of the valve and solder in connections direct.

Let me know if that all made sense.. O.K.

You will also need a 1/2" copper x 1/2" female drop ear elbow for the shower arm.. see picture. Be sure to pre-solder this before attaching to wood brace.

MARK

Thanks for the reply. For the cement board can I not use 3/8" as noted by mygirl or does it have to be 1/2" as you stated?

I tried to put a 1/2" pipe directly into the valve but the pipe is too small. I will have to use a threaded fitting. Would you know the size of the fitting I would need/ or are all valves different?

Thanks again for the help

They don't even make 3/8" cement board....only 1/4" and 1/2". The 1/4" is for floors only so you will want to install the 1/2" board for walls.

Most valve threads are going to be 1/2" male threads so you would need 1/2" copper female adapters. However, you said that 1/2" pipe was too small so I'm betting that you have a 3/4" valve there... so you would need 3/4" female adapters and pipe or again just install the pipe directly into the valve. You could buy 3/4" x 1/2" couplings and reduce to 1/2" copper that way.

Again, pre-solder any threaded fittings before connecting them to the valve (use teflon tape and/or pipe dope).

Good luck!

Do they make a 3/4" threaded fitting that reduces into 1/2"

After looking through the website it lists the valve as 1/2" fitting. But like i said a 1/2" copper pipe in extremely loose when inserted

Good observation. What we do in this case we take 1/2" x 2" brass nipple, screw this nipple into the faucet body and then screw 1/2" female copper adaptor to it. Repeat for each outlet From that female fitting we than continue with copper pipe...

Hope that helps... Let us know how it went... Milo

Why 1/2" x 2", wouldn't I want to get a nipple that is 3/4" x 1/2" and then screw the 1/2" female copper adapter to that?

Oh, I am sorry... my fault...

Yes, if you have 3/4" inlets than yes: you would get 3/4" x Close brass nipples, 3/4" x 1/2"brass reducing coupling and another 1/2"x Close brass nipple. Then you will continue with 1/2" Female copper adaptor and continue with pipe...

Do they not make a close brass nipple that is a reducer in itself? Meaning one male end is 3/4" and the other end is 1/2"

Also if I am using a close brass nipple How will I properly tighten it. If I am right a close nipple has no nut to put a wrench on

Brass on Brass bites well. You can put all 4 pieces together by hand and screw it by hand into body female outlet. Than, take small wrench and: first tighten reducing coupling and close nipple together and into the body, than Copper female and close nipple into the reducer. This way, you don't touch nipples at all. Use pipe dope. With pipe dope, you can solder pipe into the copper Female Adapter and won't loose the seal...

I know somebody makes this reducer since I had one in my hand few years back - but do not remember how it got into my van.

OK well I contacted Moen. The answer is all I need to use a 1/2" threaded adapter and then weld right to that. The reason i was confused is cause on a 1/2" threaded adapter is 1/2" ID the OD is actually 5/8", which is why the 1/2" copper pipe is loose within the valve.

Yes, they sometimes supply those with their faucets. I didn't think of that as I got carried away with that 3/4" dimension. Good you called Moen. Thanks for sharing... Milo

Another question,

As mentioen my shower will be tiled, thus I will be using cement board on the walls. My question is if I really need to put a water proofing membrane? Or will I be fine with the cement board with the tiles over it.
Thanks

Hey John...

Are we talking about a LIQUID waterproofing membrane where you paint it on the cement board and use a membrane to seal all the seams... one like this (see image)?

I started using this stuff awhile back now and I love it! As a contractor that needs to guarantee all work for a year minimum I feel that this EXTRA precaution is worth the extra $75.00 to $100.00.

Most people, including myself for years, only install the cement board and the alkali-resistant screws, tape the cement board joints and tile away... and it has worked very well over the years. However, since this is your FIRST big tile job (I think..? ) I think that the liquid membrane is a great idea... almost guarantees a job that will last for years without problems.

Let me know what you think here...

MARK

It is not my first tiling job but I am no pro either. I will definitely look into this system. I have already seeing it at the local hardware store.

Another question,

I was debating on using a floor membrane like the Schluter Kurdi system for under the ceramic tile. My sub floor is very solid with no movement. But I have heard of these systems and thought I would see what you guys have to say about it. I have done tile floors before without this membrane and never had issues.

Let me know

Mark gave you great idea with the water proofing coating. However, you should nail asphalt paper over the studs with no less than 6" overlap.

I am not familiar with Shluter Kurdi system so I won't comment on it.

Do you have any suggestions as far as an underlayment for ceramic tile floor. Or can I just go straight on the plywood?

Definitely NOT directly over ply. For floors, you have to use 1/2" cement board over ply, like Hardi-Backer or Dura-Rock. Attach boards with screws designed for fastening cement boards. Make sure you drive them into joists, not only to the sub-floor. All materials can be purchased in Home Depot / Lowe's.

Hey guys... I want to weigh in on this but can't tonight... gotta blow bubbles with my little guy! I'll be back on at early AM and at least share my thoughts!
Milo has you headed in the right direction, for sure!

Goodnight!

Schluter-DITRA - Schluter-Systems (http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx)

Here is the product I am considering to put over my plywood. My subfloor is as follows

Basement bathroom with concrete floor.
2 x 4's laid flat with a 12” OC spacing.
5/8's plywood glued and heavily screwed

I read more through the website and this product is more the adequate for my installation. I am very surprised that you guys have never heard of this product. It is widely used here in canada.

Hey John:

We have certainly heard of schluter-kerdi system... looks great! However, in my area we lay out some thinset mortar (just like the schluter-kerdi system requires) with 1/4" notch trowel, lay our HARDIBACKER cement board, and then screw the board down every 6 inches using alkali-resistant screws (screws made to go through cement board). Tape the seams and lay the tile, etc...

Cement board is only $9.00 per sheet, too. It is just how it's been done for a couple decades now... ;)

Changing over to newer stuff.. not that schulter-kerdi is that new... is never easy and it simply doesn't look as strong or consistent as the cement board, so I'm stickin' with cement board. But I am sure the schulter-kerdi. will be fine for you too... ;)

I am interested in trying their shower pan/drain system someday... now that looks great!

PS: Those 2"x4" on 12" centers for the floor...they are PRESSURE-TREATED right...??

Good day!

No they are not pressure treated, but a vapor barrier was laid before installing them. I am aware that you never want to install wood straight onto the concrete.

I am going with the kerdi system due to the fact it is only 3mm thick. With cement board I would be losing some height. Also my shower has already been installed and I therefore can not build up the floor much higher

I am back.

Well the floor is tiled with 13 X 13 porcelain tiles. My question is as to what the best grout to use is. My spacing is 1/4" so i am assuming a sanded grout. But I have seen modified and unmodifed grout. Which should i use?

My shower will be tiled this weekend using a 10 X 13 ceramic tile. What thinset should i be using? Modified or unmodified? or will both work? My walls are fibrerock aqua tough tile backerboard. on their website they say to use a modified thinset. but I have heard that with the size of tile that i am using a nonmodified should be used. Please confirm. Also what grout should i be using for the shower? i will be leaving a 1/8" gap so I would assume an unsanded grout.

Please give me your input.

Thanks guys