Hello:

Last month, in response to increasing pressure over reports of British resident Binyam Mohamed's deterioration (he was on a hunger strike) in Guantanamo, Obama released him back to Britain.

Mr Mohamed, 30, an Ethiopian, and legal resident of Britain was picked up in Pakistan in 2002 on suspicion of involvement in terrorism. He was rendered to Morocco and Afghanistan, tortured and then sent to Gitmo in 2004. All terror charges against him were dropped last year.

Ever since, he has been detailing the often brutal torture to which he was subjected over several years, torture in which British intelligence officials appear to have been, at the very least, complicit. As a result, despite the efforts of both the British Government and the Obama administration to keep concealed what was done to Mohamed, the facts about his treatment have emerged and a major political controversy has been ignited.

That's because torture is illegal in Britain, as it is in the United States. But unlike the United States, Britain hasn't completely abandoned the idea that even political officials must be accountable when they commit crimes. Their political discourse isn't dominated and infected by the subservient government defending apologists. And they don't have "opposition leaders" who are so afraid of their own shadows and/or so supportive of torture that they remain mute in the face of such allegations. To the contrary, demands for criminal investigations into these episodes of torture (including demands for war crimes investigations from conservatives) span the political spectrum in Britain.

A secret International Red Cross report quotes detainees describing, often in gruesome detail, how they were locked in coffin-size boxes; swung by towels around their necks into plywood walls; and forced to stand naked for days while their arms were shackled above their heads.

The UK Telegraph reports that two High Court judges wanted the release of the full contents of a CIA file on Mr. Mohameds treatment but the CIA held back seven paragraphs of information. The 25 lines edited out of the file contained details of how Mr Mohamed's genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding, "is very far down the list of things they did," the official said.

Bush offered to let Mr. Mohamed out if he'd accept a gag order whereby Mohamed would have been freed from Guantanamo last year if he agreed (a) not to talk publicly about the treatment he received and (b) cease all efforts to prove in court that he was tortured and/or to obtain documents proving that he was mistreated.

He refused, and went on a hunger strike.

So, we put people into cages for years with no charges and tortured them, and then told them that we would release them only if they agreed to keep silent about what we did to them and renounce all claims for judicial accountability and disclosure. If they refused the vow of silence -- as Mohamed did -- they would stay locked in their cage.

Does it make you proud? Should we STILL look forward and forget about the past??

excon

Well, Excon, so far O has not decided just what he wants to do with everyone at Gitmo. First he says he's going to relocate them to Australia, then he's going to relocate them elsewhere. I don't think O is making any policy on this but someone else is making the policy on this and making it up as they go along.

Oddly enough a lot of the folks currently at Gitmo were just civilians just taken off the streets in a "sweep" in some Arab country and spirited away. They were not in any way a terrorist or enemy combatant.

I am not proud of the way these people are being treated by this country. A lot of those people should not even be there in the first place.

Hello again,

Thanks, twink. Given your anti Obama stance, I'da thought you'd support Gitmo...

But, it's even WORSE than it was yesterday... Not only Britain, but Spain is opening a criminal investigation into torture.

If WE don't do what we SHOULD do, and that's put the torturers on trial, the WORLD will do it for us... Gonzo, Bush, Cheney, and their crowd won't be able to leave the country without being arrested - and by our allies, no less.

Does that make you proud?

excon

Next people will be trying to prosecute our soldiers for doing the job they are ordered to do! If you continue to get your news from NBC/ABC/ and CBS you will never understand the truth. Those that have never been in battle or fought against an enemy that you cannot distinguish from the average Joe citizen have no clue. And making backyard judgments are down right dangerous to the safety of our Country. I fear that we will soon learn the lesson of your Governments inept actions

Hello 450:

I see that you attack ME, and not my argument. That's typical when you have NOTHING to argue.

But, if you attack, shouldn't you know a little something about WHO you're attacking??

Nahhh, facts don't matter to you people. The only thing that matters to you is your perverse, small minded, right wing viewpoint, that a liberal such as myself, couldn't have fought in wars against enemy's that were indistinguishable, couldn't be combat decorated, couldn't have spilled their blood on the battlefield, and couldn't have fought for the rights of people like you, who probably never wore a uniform and only promote war from the comfort of your livingroom...

That viewpoint, Sir, would be incorrect.

excon

Where did I attack YOU? I was making a general statement. But if YOU took it personal that I am sorry to say is your problem.

This will just be the tip of the iceberg. But is it surprising given cheney's openness about the merit's of torture? If these turkeys make you proud then I truly feel sorry for you.

Hello again,

You might find this interesting:

Last year, for the first time in history, Bush used a law that allows for the prosecution IN the United States for torture that happened in other countries. On Jan. 10, a Miami court sentenced Chuckie Taylor, the son of the former Liberian president, to 97 years in a federal prison for torture, even though the crimes were committed in Liberia.

Last October, when the Miami court handed down the conviction, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey applauded the ruling and said: “This is the first case in the United States to charge an individual with criminal torture. I hope this case will serve as a model to future prosecutions of this type.”

I do too.

excon

Detainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/28/AR2009032802066_pf.html)


The application of techniques such as waterboarding -- a form of simulated drowning that U.S. officials had previously deemed a crime -- prompted a sudden torrent of names and facts. Abu Zubaida began unspooling the details of various al-Qaeda plots, including plans to unleash weapons of mass destruction.

Abu Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms. The interrogations led directly to the arrest of Jose Padilla, the man Abu Zubaida identified as heading an effort to explode a radiological "dirty bomb" in an American city. Padilla was held in a naval brig for 3 1/2 years on the allegation but was never charged in any such plot. Every other lead ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports.

"We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms," one former intelligence official said.

Despite the poor results, Bush White House officials and CIA leaders continued to insist that the harsh measures applied against Abu Zubaida and others produced useful intelligence that disrupted terrorist plots and saved American lives.

Two weeks ago, Bush's vice president, Richard B. Cheney, renewed that assertion in an interview with CNN, saying that "the enhanced interrogation program" stopped "a great many" terrorist attacks on the level of Sept. 11.

"I've seen a report that was written, based upon the intelligence that we collected then, that itemizes the specific attacks that were stopped by virtue of what we learned through those programs," Cheney asserted, adding that the report is "still classified," and, "I can't give you the details of it without violating classification."

Since 2006, Senate intelligence committee members have pressed the CIA, in classified briefings, to provide examples of specific leads that were obtained from Abu Zubaida through the use of waterboarding and other methods, according to officials familiar with the requests.

The agency provided none, the officials said. Cheney is a liar.

Cheney is a liar.Hello again, Need:

Indeed!

Spain’s national newspapers, El País and Público reported that the Spanish national security court has opened a criminal probe focusing on Bush Administration lawyers who pioneered the descent into torture at the prison in Guantánamo. Público identifies the targets as University of California law professor John Yoo, former Department of Defense general counsel William J. Haynes II (now a lawyer working for Chevron), former vice presidential chief-of-staff David Addington, former attorney general and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, former Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, now a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, and former Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith.

More ominous for Yoo and Addington, et al, is that the judge involved is the one who nailed Pinochet. That dude doesn't mess around. Spain's action means these war criminals are vulnerable in 24 European countries for arrest and prosecution for enabling torture.

It has started. Bush and Cheney are next. Unless, of course, the idea that we're ruled by LAWS and not MEN has gone by the wayside too.

excon

Hello again, righty's:

I know you don't want to talk about torture. If I was you, I wouldn't either. Hillary's gaffe, or Obama's bow are MUCH more interesting... However, I must reiterate my old and tired refrain when you guys want to talk about stuff that doesn't matter - you guys are silly.

But, I'LL talk about torture... We sold our soul and got NOTHING in return. It's NOT over, righty's. You can hide, but we'll find you. It is NOT OK to torture people, and then pretend we didn't.

excon

Binyam Mohammed, the former Guantánamo Bay detainee, admitted undergoing weapons and explosives training in Afghanistan, according to a summary of his questioning by MI5 released last night.
Training in Pakistan was intended to enable him to learn how to attack the US or coalition forces in Afghanistan with landmines. But according to the summary, he denied telling the FBI of a “dirty bomb” plot and referred to having seen something on the construction of an H-bomb on a file in a computer that was a joke. Mr Mohamed has maintained that his confessions were made under duress and that he never intended to engage in terrorism.
The summary of the interrogation shows that the MI5 officer, known only as Witness B, believed Mr Mohammed was a liar who had the strength of character to maintain his story “indefinitely”.
Details of the former detainee’s interrogation were released after a ruling by Lord Justice Thomas that two witness statements by MI5 officers in judicial review proceedings could be made public
Former terror suspect Binyam Mohammed ‘admitted weapons training’ - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5990025.ece)

Mohamed admitted this to the personal representative assigned to handle his case at Guantánamo. Who submitted a memo on his behalf. The memo indicates that Mohamed "admitted items 3A1-4 on the UNCLASS summary of evidence." The items Mohamed admitted include :

1. The detainee is an Ethiopian who lived in the United States from 1992 to 1994, and in London, United Kingdom, until he departed for Pakistan in 2001. 2. The detainee arrived in Islamabad, Pakistan, in June 2001, and traveled to the al Farouq training camp in Afghanistan, to receive paramilitary training.
3. At the al Farouq camp, the detainee received 40 days of training in light arms handling, explosives, and principles of topography.
4. The detainee was taught to falsify documents, and received instruction from a senior al Qaeda operative on how to encode telephone numbers before passing them to another individual.

At a minimum we know that Mohamed has admitted being an AQ operative.

The al Farouq camp was responsible for training numerous AQ operatives, including some of the September 11 hijackers. AQ used the al Farouq camp to identify especially promising recruits who could take on sensitive missions. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, this is what happened with members of al Qaeda's Hamburg cell.
OBL visited the al Farouq camp "several times" after Mohamed arrived there in the summer of 2001. He "lectured Binyam Mohamed and other trainees about the importance of conducting operations against the United States." Bin Laden explained that "something big is going to happen in the future" and the new recruits should get ready for an impending event.
He received additional training at a "city warfare course" in Kabul ." He fought along side the Taliban and then he later returned to Kabul, where he attended an explosives training camp alongside Richard Reid, the shoe bomber.
He later teamed up with Abu Zubaydah ; met Jose Padilla and two other plotters at a madrassa. Zubaydah and another top AQ lieutenant, Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, directed them "to receive training on building remote-controlled detonation devices for explosives."Padilla and Mohamed traveled to a guesthouse in Lahore, Pakistan, where they reviewed instructions on a computer... on how to make a dirty bomb.

According to the summary-of-evidence memo prepared for his combatant status review tribunal at GITMO , Mohamed was an active participant in the plotting of attacking subway trains in the United States.But KSM told Binyam that he and Padilla would target "high-rise apartment buildings that utilized natural gas for its heat and also target gas stations."

In early April 2002, KSM gave Mohamed $6,000 and Padilla $10,000 to fly to the United States. They were both detained at the airport in Karachi on April 4. Mohamed was arrested with a forged passport, but released. KSM arranged for Mohamed to travel on a different forged passport, but he was arrested once again on April 10. Padilla was released and made it to Chicago before being arrested again.Both were clearly part of a planned 2nd wave of attacks on the US .

Whatever else is revealed in this case ,these facts should not be lightly dismissed.

He was captured by the Pakistanis where he was beaten ,sent to Morocco where his penis is allegedly cut before he is asked questions provided by the Brits. The most serious allegation if any are to be believed committed by the US is the playing of loud music.

AG Holder said in testimony at his confirmantion hearing ;
If we have a basis to determine that a person is dangerous, and we have evidence that would demonstrate that that person is dangerous, I don’t think that, given the Supreme Court decision in Hamdi, and the responsibility that I have as attorney [general] of the United States, should I be confirmed, for the safety of this nation, that that is a person who we can release.

I think Binyam Mohamed fits that description and it was a breach of duty by Holder to allow his release.

Hello again, tom:

If you were to pull my fingernails out, I'd admit to being a terrorist too. I don't get your point... That torture is GOOD?? I think so.

excon

Just giving balance to the notion that just anyone is being picked up and interrogated and held . Just wanted to provide some backround into how this innocent young Ethiopian was detained in the 1st place.
I'll be very surprised if the Brits find anyone in M15 accountable . I'm not going to lose any sleep over his treatment...

just giving balance to the notion that just anyone is being picked up and interrogated and held Hello tom:

Well, balance this: In round numbers Guantanamo held over 600 terror suspects. 400 have been released. I don't know, but it looks to ME like just anyone is being picked up. But, what do I know?

excon