I was charged with possession of a firearm while intoxicated (that's exactly how it reads on my charge sheet). OK, so I was in possession of a firearm, UN-concealed, legal, with permission BUT I was NOT intoxicated. No sobriety test whatsoever was done. So is this charge bogus? I am getting a lawyer on Monday but curiosity is just killing me right now.

If the firearm was sitting on the seat beside you UNconcealed, and depending gon what type of firearm it was, I can see why the officer was suspicious. AND I guess he smelled liquor on your person and that was additional cause for alarm.

Not knowing the circumstances, and not being there to observe, passmeby, it is kind of hard to judge the circumstances to give you any indication if the charge was bogus or not, but as you explain it, the firearm was not yours, you say 'with permission', (just what was your purpose in having a firearm exposed) that in itself is not good at all.

Tick

The gun was in my hands. I can understand the gun charges but the intox charges are what's bugging me. I was not intoxicated, period, and no sobriety test was done. So how could I possibly be charged with intox? I had just got off work, I work in a bar, and I have a liquor license that mandates that I cannot drink at work. So perhaps I did smell of alcohol due to the nature of my work but still, to be charged with being intoxicated with no proof of such makes no sense to me.

I was not intoxicated, period, and no sobriety test was done. So how could I possibly be charged with intox??
Hello again, pass:

Yeah, some cops ain't too bright.. Maybe it's all that sugar in the doughnuts... I don't know. But, being CHARGED ain't no big deal. It's when they CONVICT you that you got to start worrying.

From what you say, they're going to have a hard time doing that.

excon

Hi, excon, I was waiting to hear your take on the gun (especially the gun being in his hands yet) and not belonging to the OP... and...

Tick

Hello tick:

The question really depends on which state the OP lives in.

In the west, having a gun in your possession, even if it doesn't belong to you, ain't no big deal. I'd NEVER have it in my hands when being approached by the police, though.

Pass was lucky they didn't shoot first.

excon

Thanks for the answers. So, excon, here is what my charge reads word for word: "Carrying firearm while under the influence ~ 21 O.S. (section) 1289.9 a" Misdemeanor.

So if I wasn't proven to be under the influence, does this mean that the whole thing can be thrown out, as it seems to be one single charge and not 2 separate charges (one for the gun and one for intox)??

Well, I didn't know the police were coming!! I was just sitting there and they busted through the door! The gun was in my hands because someone had stolen it out of my bag when I went to the bathroom, I went through their house and found it and wasn't letting it go until my ride came to get me! Probably better that it was unconcealed at that point.

BTW, I'm a girl!

So if I wasn't proven to be under the influence, does this mean that the whole thing can be thrown out???Hello again, pass:

I'd be willing to bet on it.

excon

Not to ake you nervous, but... I'd be concerned that if/when this gets to court the cop could claim that you were obviously, visibly intoxicated,and hence a sobriety test wasn't needed. He could say you couldn't stand up straight, had slurred speech, etc etc. So, do you have any witnesses who would be able to testify that you were not intoxicated? Form the description of why you had the gun out -- I would assume that there weren't too many people there who would be on your side, right?

Yeah, the 2 witnesses there would definitely not be on my side! All I really have is proof that I had just come from work, where I can't drink. I also called my husband as soon as I realized the gun was missing, I don't know if he could testify to the fact that I was perfectly coherent.

I did get a lawyer today but have to wait a while for him to gather all the reports and sttements and go over this with me. He did say that a sobriety test wasn't necessary in this case in order to prove intoxication. Basically possessing the gun is like nothing, but the accusation of being intoxicated while possessing it is the bulk of the charge. Which is why I am just astounded that a sobriety test does not come into play here.

This isn't off topic and I have to to say that in the greater Toronto area, driving a car and displaying a gun is so not cool. We don't know where the dilinquents are getting guns to 'drive by and shoot'. They figure they are coming across the border to sell them and go back. There are young people dying up here from drive by shooters who have no regard for human life. I am not kidding.

So, your story, pass, is so alien to me. You can actually possess a gun and that is that.

Tick

I did get a lawyer today but have to wait a while for him to gather all the reports and sttements and go over this with me. He did say that a sobriety test wasn't necessary in this case in order to prove intoxication. Hello again, pass:

In the law, there are no guarantees. I didn't say that you'll be found not guilty, and your lawyer didn't say that you would...

I don't disagree with him either, in that I don't think the fact that they DIDN'T test you, is an automatic pass. As another poster said, there are other ways that intoxication can be proved...

However, I will say, that in the ABSENCE of ANY corroborating evidence that you were drunk, and you say you weren't, the fact that there WASN'T a test carries a lot more weight. I'll reiterate what I said before. I'll betcha you beat the charge.

excon

Well, I didn't know the police were coming!!! I was just sitting there and they busted thru the door!! The gun was in my hands because someone had stolen it out of my bag when I went to the bathroom, I went thru their house and found it and wasn't letting it go untill my ride came to get me!! Probably better that it was unconcealed at that point.

Excon as you say beat the charge did anyone here ask or say who and why was the officer there in the first place. A big part of the story is missing here.

Did an officer just pop up out of know where and busted the door down?

There seems to be a lot more here that's obviously not being told.

Who's house a friend? Who called the police? The gun was stolen out of a bag and was somehow found laying around in the house? Who's house the op or someone else's? How was it so easily found after it was stolen out of the bag?

A lot missing here that may be thicker than we know.

Hello again:

I'm not here to solve the crime. I'm here to give my OP advice.

excon

The whole story... I carried the gun because I had a guy (a bad kind of guy! ) sort of stalking me, and since I work in a bar I go home around 2 AM many nights. I live in a rural area, there's nowhere to pull over, as in a police station or public place that's open at that hour. So that explains why I possessed the gun that day in the first place. Moving right along... some (well, former friends now) friends called my work to see if I was there, they wanted to come by and drink, so they did for a bit. Closing time came around and they asked me if I wanted to go chill for a while at one of their houses, so I did. No one besides me knew the gun was in my purse, I'm not stupid, I'm not going to tell a soul about that! Anyway, I got up to go to the bathroom and when I got back I moved my purse to sit back down and noticed it was quite a bit lighter than it was before. I immediately opened it and saw that the gun was missing. I confronted both "friends" that were present... both denied any knowledge of anything. Well, I wasn't accepting that answer so first thing I did was call my husband. I think they got scared at that point. I went directly to the main suspects room and rifled through everything until I found it, sitting on a closet shelf. At that point, the thief got REALLY scared and ran off. I was just planning on leaving, waiting on a ride, little did I know he was in the bushes somewhere calling the cops.

Now I know, I could have called the cops first and they would be the ones in big trouble for stealing a gun, but I would probably be in trouble too for possessing it in the first place (it's a SMALL town, the cops jump on every opportunity they get!! ). Besides, I'm not the "cop calling" type. I like to handle things myself and I don't like cops anyway. Like I said, I didn't know he was calling the cops out there in the bushes somewhere. Yes, they did bust through the front door, yes, I almost got shot, blah, blah blah... but that's the whole story.

As far as the accusation of intox goes, I'm assuming it was partly because the 2 witnesses were drinking so the police probably assumed I was too. I still don't have the witness reports, so I don't know for sure what they said. Maybe they said that we had come from a bar (which technically we did)... which would cause one to assume drinking was going on, even though I was the bar employee and NOT allowed (nor do I) to drink at work. There was also 2 beer cans on the coffee table, one belonging to each witness... though the one witness had fled so possibly the police assumed one beer was mine. When the police came in, me and the one other witness that didn't run off like a little girl were sitting on the couch together, I was simply waiting on a ride.

Excon as you say beat the charge did anyone here ask or say who and why was the officer there in the first place. A big part of the story is missing here.

Did an officer just pop up out of know where and busted the door down?

There seems to be a lot more here thats obviously not being told.

Who's house a friend? Who called the police? The gun was stolen out of a bag and was somehow found laying around in the house? Who's house the op or someone else's? How was it so easily found after it was stolen out of the bag?

A lot missing here that may be thicker than we know.



I don't see that this has any bearing on the charges - fascinating, perhaps, but has no impact on the charges.

[QUOTE=passmeby agrees: Exactly....but the tone of that post made me feel like I had to respond with the full story. I don't like being called a liar in so many words....[/QUOTE]


I understand. This probably should be moved to the legal boards where people who are trained/work in the legal profession/do great research hang out and know what is necessary and what is not.

Would that work for you?

Yeah, when I first posted this I didn't see the "Criminal Law" section. So, anyone who has the power, you may move this thread if you see fit!

I've never been arrested before so any and all input is welcome, not just necessarily advice strictly related to my charge. Input on the court process, what to do/say... ANYTHING, is more than welcome and APPRECIATED!!

Yeah, when I first posted this I didn't see the "Criminal Law" section. So, anyone who has the power, you may move this thread if you see fit!!

I've never been arrested before so any and all input is welcome, not just necessarily advice strictly related to my charge. Input on the court process, what to do/say..... ANYTHING, is more than welcome and APPRECIATED!!!!!



Don't know that I have the power - but let's see if I can try.

Hi pass, don't take any post on here as 'being called a liar', it is just some people trying to solve the problem. By saying 'you think you are being called a liar' is sending the wrong message to me at least.

Tick

hi pass, dont take any post on here as 'being called a liar', it is just some people trying to solve the problem. By saying 'you think you are being called a liar' is sending the wrong message to me at least.

tick



I can't speak for OP but I don't think he meant it that way - you know this so I don't even know why I'm saying it when an OP is upset in the first place and gets anything that might even remotely "smack" of criticism or questioning, people tend to over react.

I do think the place for this is on the criminal board - and that doesn't mean the answers will be any different.

In fact, I don't even understand the "crime" boards when it's already covered on the legal boards.

tickle... perhaps I did overreact, but I felt strongly the tone of that particular post inferred I was hiding info or lying by omission. When I started this thread, I felt I gave the necessary info in order to get the answer to my question. So I didn't go in depth with the whole boring story, all I wanted to know was about the FACT that I was charged with said crime and what to do about it/what it means basically. Other than that, there's really nothing else to say. To be basically accused (and I've had about enough accussin' this week! ) of lying by omission, especially when for one thing, if that particular poster had read the thread more thoroughly, at least three quarters of his/her questions would've been answered, and for another thing, none of it even mattered or gave an ounce of help. And said poster hasn't and probably didn't even intend to, give any help either. Sorry, it just got under my skin.

Hello. I have a misdemeanor charge against me, arrested in mid-April with a court date in mid-August. I am currently out on bail. The charge is "Posession of a Firearm While Intoxicated", and carries a potential fine of $50-$500 and/or 10 days to 6 months in jail. Why do I want to represent myself? Because I called around to lawyers and they want a minimum of $750 to take the case (which is their standard rate for a misdemeanor case). What sense does it make to pay a lawyer MORE than the max fine? The way I see it, I could end up paying the lawyer the $750 and STILL end up owing a fine...

Here's a little more background: I have NEVER been arrested before. I am 31 years old and the only police contact I have ever had in my life is 3 minor traffic tickets, 2 of which are from the 1990's. I am innocent of the charges against me, as I was NOT intoxicated when arrested by ANY stretch. I was NOT given ANY form of a sobriety test, field or chemical, at any point. The police are basing the accusation of intoxication on a open beer can (yes, ONE open can, practically still full) that was near me-although there was 2 other people present. I DO NOT drink beer! EVER! It was not my beer.

I was 100% cooperative with the officers. I did not resist, I did not argue with them at all. I answered all their questions politely and completely, even though I didn't have to say a word to them. I was not read or otherwise informed of my rights, but at the time I was so overwhelmed with what was happening that I did not realize this.

I was with the officers at the station, handcuffed, for quite a long time before I was formally told of my charge... approximately 2-3 hours. I was then taken to jail, and by this time it was very late (well, more like early, early morning), put in a cell with another woman, I was quiet and cooperative with all jail personnel at all times. The woman helped me make a phone call to my husband and then to a bail-bondsman. I got to see the judge sometime quite late that afternoon, I was handcuffed and chained at the waist. My friggin pants fell down on the way to the courtroom, and I was walking as the only female in front of several males on our way to the courtroom. The judge set my bail at $1500, the bail bondsman was in the courtroom and he took me from there. He signed me out of jail and he was nice enough to drive me about 30 minutes to my car, which had been left at my place of employment. Luckily I happened to have my paycheck waiting for me at my work, and he was nice enough to accept it as payment for my bail, I just signed my check over to him.

Why were the police called in the first place? I was invited to go to a friends house after work. They called my work and invited me, and came to pick me up. I carry a pistol in my purse (registered, completely legal). About 15 minutes after getting to my friends house, I went to use the bathroom. I left my purse at my seat on the couch. I came back from the bathroom, moved my purse to sit back down and immediately noticed it was several pounds too light. Obviously, the gun was missing. I confronted the only 2 people present... the idiots denied everything. Well, I wasn't accepting that answer, so I proceeded to search the premises for my pistol. I found it rather quickly. Now I was naturally upset and wanted to leave, but as I said, they had picked me up and my car was left at my work so I was waiting around for a ride back. As I am waiting, the person who had stolen the gun had vanished. Little did we know, he was hiding outside somewhere calling the police on ME... So what could have been a complete non-incident and a lesson learned turned into this. I should have called the police on HIM, but I'm the type of person who likes to deal with things in the simplest manner. So this guy would've been charged with a felony for stealing my gun, but instead I decided to deal with it "man to man" and move on, and he turned around and did this to me... needless to say, he is no longer a friend...

I think the police charged me with what they did because it was their only shot to try to stick me with something, as the gun was legal and all. We're talking about a REAL small town here, population in the hundreds, so the police got a bit over-excited I think and were dismayed that it wasn't the big bust they thought it may be.

Anyway, I was looking for some help in finding resources aimed at self-representation, and any help people can offer regarding courtroom procedure. I have never been in criminal court before, so I have no clue as to the proceedings, how/when to speak for myself and even how to dress.

Also, I am wondering how and where to obtain a copy of my background so I can show that I have never been in trouble before.

Please don't tell me I should reconsider and get a lawyer, that is NOT what I am asking here. My mind is made up, I am not paying the money for a lawyer, period. I just want help with what I asked in this post. I have done searches to find self-rep help and come up with a ton of useless information (mostly small-claims court info and lawyers sites), so this is why I am asking here.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If you're going to represent yourself, you need to focus on the facts of the case. What happened in the police station or in jail is absolutely, totally irrelevant, even though you didn't like it. That might be a totally separate case if you wanted to pursue it. If you bring those things up, you'll be thought of as a fool and you will probably be found guilty. Your feelings about the person who stole your gun or what you could have done to him are also irrelevant. You need to think impassionately about the facts and present them impassionately. You need to focus on why the police thought that you were intoxicated, and why they were wrong. You can bring up the lack of a sobriety test, but there are other tests for sobriety (how you act, staggering, etc) so be sure you didn't show any symptoms of intoxication. You can bring witnesses (make sure they're credible) as to your non-drinking status . If you weren't under the influence of anything they you'll probably be able to prove it.

As to the fact that you were overwhelmed, that's irrelevant. You can bring up the idea that you weren't advised of your rights and that if you had been advised, you would have kept silent.

Don't bring up why you think the police arrested you, or that it was a "non-incident". That's also irrelevant.

You can ask at the police station for a copy of your criminal record (or lack of such).

Dress like a normal person.

Disclaimer: I am not and don't pretend to be a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

Thanks for the tips. I understand what you're saying about sticking to the facts of the case, the sole reason I put the ENTIRE story in the original post is because I have asked several questions here before and have learned that I would end up answering/being asked numerous inane questions regarding the circumstances of the case so I put it all in the OP to avoid this.

Can anyone help with familiarizing me with courtroom procedure? As in, when I approach the judge, will I be expected to speak first, or does the prosecution present their case first? Can I interject or object to statements or do I wait and then respond when it is my turn? Do I submit any paperwork or a form of an answer to the court BEFORE the trial or does it all come out at the trial?

How often do people represent themselves in a similar situation to mine? I would assume that many people simply can't afford to hire a lawyer...

Oh, also, who will be present (or be expected to appear) to testify against me? Just the arresting officers or does the person who reported me have to show up too? If the officers are basing any of their arguments on what the person who reported me said, could I make the argument that that person be present to testify?

This post should be combined with the old post for background - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/criminal-law/no-sobriety-test-yet-charged-w-intox-332373-3.html.

Appears to be same charge/same case.

Yeah, it's the same charge. But I don't think it should be combined, because at that point I was talking with a lawyer and have since changed my mind and decided to go it alone. Plus it just says the same crap that I already said in this question, except now I'm looking for a totally different answer and to combine it would just be clutter and make it harder for me to get answers that I need.