I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities?! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women! Ugh.

First, lets not make this another thread about pro/con porn or strip clubs. The issue isn't is porn bad/good... that's been dealt with over and over on the threads here. In the end, you choose what you are willing to demand, need, and live with. The issue at hand is there is a potential conflict that you want to address.

The ONLY thing you can do is talk to him about your desires and feelings and see what his response is. If you both feel strongly, but are on opposite sides, then its time to decide if its an issue worth a fight, step back, etc.

Would it be enough of a compromise to say "look, i dont want you going to a strip club, but i know you have three buddies getting married, so go if you think its important to you, but know i dont like it, and i really am against any other woman dancing on you"...

You introduced porn into the relationship as far as you know. He might have watched it before you and just not addressed it. One way some couples have used erotic materials is to share it. Just a thought. Some people can do this and be happy. Some cannot. Not judging one way or another.

Well there is no one to blame except yourself. If you want to understand how destructive porn can be in a relationship, just sit down and start reading all of the posts concerning it here. There are hundreds of people that have problems in their relationships over the issue of porn and pron addiction. And that is only here on this forum.

Be honest about the way you feel, tell him about it, ask him to stop or not to go to places that bother you.

first, lets not make this another thread about pro/con porn or strip clubs. the issue isnt is porn bad/good... thats been dealt with over and over on the threads here. in the end, you choose what you are willing to demand, need, and live with. the issue at hand is there is a potential conflict that you want to address.

the ONLY thing you can do is talk to him about your desires and feelings and see what his response is. if you both feel strongly, but are on opposite sides, then its time to decide if its an issue worth a fight, step back, etc.

would it be enough of a compromise to say "look, i dont want you going to a strip club, but i know you have three buddies getting married, so go if you think its important to you, but know i dont like it, and i really am against any other woman dancing on you"...

you introduced porn into the relationship as far as you know. he might have watched it before you and just not addressed it. one way some couples have used erotic materials is to share it. just a thought. some people can do this and be happy. some cannot. not judging one way or another.

Ok, you have a very good idea. Is it even possible for a guy to go to a strip club for a bachelor party and NOT get a lap dance though? Just wondering. I will talk to him about the compromise though. I think I set the stage for that discussion when we discussed me dancing with other guys when I go out with my girlfriends. He doesn't want me to and I don't want to. And that's a lot less troubling than strippers!

When I said I "introduced it" I meant as an erotic tool for us. He has watched porn for years before me. Since we pretty much live together, he doesn't masturbate as often as he used to, but it bothers me when he does that he's looking at other women. I hate gender roles and the way we socialized men and women to be different. We really aren't that different. How do I get over this insecurity since there's no real way to get him to stop>>>

You realize that it's JUST a picture. Period.

Would you stop watching romantic movies if he asked---including Disney, with their misrepresentation of how "happily ever after" works? Would you give up romance novels?

It's the SAME THING. You'd be asking him to give up something that he enjoys because YOU are insecure.

What exactly about it makes you feel threatened?

I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities???!!! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women!! Ugh.
First off... Porn or Strip clubs have absolutely NOTHING to do with you, how you look or whatever...

There are people with a bug up their butt about porn... and make it their personal Crusade. They woould serve themselves better buy going on a crusade about being overweight... thats a far more common and more serious issue. Nobody ever contracted a disease or developed serious medical conditions from looking at a naked woman. Just to put things in perspective.

Back on topic Guys are visual... women aren't. That's why women have a hard time understanding. A guy that doesn't look at other women or like to look at other women is either gay or has other issues. Looking has nothing to do with pursueing I must point out. Looking = normal and OK, skirt chasing = Not OK unless he is single.


And lastly... what do you really enjoy that you are willing to give up in exchange? Tit for tat...

I think I set the stage for that discussion when we discussed me dancing with other guys when I go out with my girlfriends. He doesn't want me to and I don't want to. And that's a lot less troubling than strippers!!
Well, if that's his position (dont dance with other guys) I don't see why he shouldn't honor your request.

My love likes to flirt... I have no problem with it or with her dancing with other guys... and she gives me the same considerations if I go out. From previous discussions on the boards here, we are probably more comfortable with our spouse flirting with other people than most... but I also trust her completely and we seem to have enough overlap in this area. Personally, I like seeing her get attention from other men, and they buy her drinks so the tab is less and she comes home worked up. Bonus. ;) it works for us. But that's us, not you.

He seems to trust your going out without him, and you've both agreed on what "limits" are reasonable for you two.

I think the more you can talk openly about sexuality and the relationship, the better. I don't like ultimatums... but calm, reasonable talking opens the door for other discussions.

Tell him that your feelings for him have grown over time and while you thought that bringing porn into the relationship would be "fun" at the time you did it, you now regret it. Explain to him that you don't want to compete with the unrealistic standards of porn and strip club women, and the very unrealistic behaviors they represent as "normal" for women. Let him know that you already feel tremendous anxiety over the upcoming bachelor parties.

I personally think that bachelor and bachelorette parties have become really low-class functions. Why encourage a man or woman to ogle or even have sex with someone other than their fiancé right before the wedding? What kind of start is that for the marriage? What are the friends thinking... "here, for your wedding, we want to give you this huge load of guilt and shame to carry into your beautiful new marriage!" It stinks.

What's wrong with the men getting some beer and cigars and playing poker, or going to a NASACAR race or the horse track or some other "male bonding" deal without strippers and prostitutes being there?

And what's wrong with women going out for a fabulous, beautiful, elegant dinner and maybe a concert or show instead of some cheesy male strip club? What's the need to get so hammered that you look like hell for the wedding later in the week and have shameful photos and memories to carry with you?

When I married, we had a couples shower, in the evening, outdoors, hosted by my sister. We had a keg of beer, some wine, steaks and chicken on the grill. People came in their nice shorts, had a great time - with their spouses and significant others - and nobody's relationship was harmed with worries and questions about "what happened".

At the wedding, we skipped the garter dance... again, why have my new husband start our marriage by taking a garter off my thigh in front of my grandmother? Tacky, tacky, tacky, tacky. He didn't smear cake on my face, either. We had a blast - it wasn't all so prim and proper that it wasn't fun - but at no point did anyone make an offensive sexual joke or otherwise make me feel anything but like I was pure class, and that he was the same.

Well here we go.

She is "insecure" and "threatened".

The OP'd ? Was how to talk to him about her feelings, not how to change her feelings. So now she should be more opened minded, but not him?

sww420... sorry if this thread blows apart now. I asked that this address your talking to him, not your "failure" to think like others.

*sigh*

You realize that it's JUST a picture. Period.

Would you stop watching romantic movies if he asked---including Disney, with their misrepresentation of how "happily ever after" works? Would you give up romance novels?

It's the SAME THING. You'd be asking him to give up something that he enjoys because YOU are insecure.

What exactly about it makes you feel threatened?

You're right. It's just a picture. I need to remind myself of that. I would never ask him to give up the porn. I just needed some perspective about it.

well here we go.

she is "insecure" and "threatened".

the OP'd ? was how to talk to him about her feelings, not how to change her feelings. so now she should be more opened minded, not him.

sww420... sorry if this thread blows apart now. i asked that this address your talking to him, not your "failure" to think like others.

*sigh*

THANKS SO MUCH!! I already started talking to him about one of my concerns and I feel better!! Only a few more topics to discuss with him and then I'll feel even more great than I do about our relationship. You're sooo right. Talk and compromise. Why didn't I think of it? ;)

I honestly just don't get it.

I'm a female, been in a relationship with my husband for going on 13 years---and I've never, in this relationship or others, had a problem with the guy LOOKING at other women.

It probably helps that I've known several strippers, and their attitude towards the guys in the clubs is generally "Which one is willing to spend the most money?" and NOT "God, I'd love to go home with that guy and knock boots with him".

I'm not saying that it's not okay to have a line that each relationship draws--I'm saying that it IS insecure to be threatened by a girl that absolutely doesn't want your man or by a picture on a TV screen or computer. I mean, it's JUST as rational (to me! ) for a guy to be annoyed and threatened by the unrealistic standards of romance that society sets up as it is for a woman to feel threatened by strippers and porn---and it's ALL stupid. Your mate is more likely to meet someone at WORK that they'd cheat on you with (if they were so inclined to do so in the first place) than at a strip club.

Look--I'm not downplaying that you feel what you feel. And I'm not attacking you for it. I just really, truly, honestly don't understand why you feel threatened/unhappy about guys going out and doing something stupid like looking at naked women. To me, it's less likely that he's "window shopping" for a replacement woman than women are "window shopping" for a new whatever at the mall. I just honestly do not get it. And I'm a woman!

So I say that it's an insecurity, because it kind of is. Is it discourteous of him to go against your wishes? Absolutely. But I guess the real thing that needs to happen is that TOGETHER you talk and define boundaries for your relationship. Remember--neither of you may be 100% happy with those boundaries. You saying that he can't go at all is really going to come across as "I don't trust you", and him deciding that no matter WHAT is planned, he is going to do what the guys do is saying "I don't care how YOU feel about it". There has to be a middle ground there somewhere, but you have to TALK to each other to figure out where it is.

Its great that you've talked to him but hopefully your not talking to him with the intent of getting your way in the end. The last thing you want to do to a man is make him feel trapped.

When most men look at porn they are not imagining being with that woman, or in the scene with her, and jthey deifnitely have no emotional attachments to the person on the screen. They just want a visual of boobs and vagina that they like so they can masterbate. That's it. He won't leave you for porn images so there's nothing to be insecure about there.

As for the strippers, you could give him all these rules but that once he gets there with his boys and all their support to be bad... he's going to do whatever he wants. I mean come on... Your basically letting him go to a candy store and not eat any of the candy. The strippers are just for entertainment. No sexual pleasure. Once that night is over the strippers go home withthere money and your man goes home to you. THE END.

You were right letting him know your uncomfortable about it, that may pursue him to do less then some of the other guys are doing but don't expect hiim not to have fun like all his boys will be. You shouldn't want to exclude him from all that fun. Which I s exactly what it will be... just fun.

Your insecurity issues can and will effect your relationship in a negative way if you can't fix them. And that is something you'll have to do on your own.

Just try to realize he is a grown man just like you are a grown woman. No one can tell him what to do and what not to do. He makes his own choices and if all the choices he makes are made to please you and not upset or disrespect you then he is doing a good job as your man. Your nagging him for no reason. Let the man be a man.

Find something else to do those nights with your girls and tell him that when he gets home that night your going to give it to him like never before. That should keep him looking forward to when the bachelor party is over and keep you feeling secure knowing your man won't do anything he isn't supposed to do because he'll get exactly what he wants when he gets home.

Be a fun girlfriend!

Relationships are about compromise and give and take. If you're uncomfortable about it, he needs to know that and you both need to discuss it. If it's wrong for you, then it's wrong for both of you. Would you compromise if he told you he was uncomfortable with something you were doing? If the answer is 'yes', then he needs to at least be willing to consider compromising with you. Just because you're uncomfortable with this does not mean that you are insecure. We all have different thoughts and values. That's what makes us all unique.

I don't get it: If a man has an extremely attractive girlfriend, why would he still need visuals of other women?

I don't get it: If a man has an extremely attractive girlfriend, why would he still need visuals of other women?
Think of it this way... If a woman has Closets full of new clothes, why does she go clothes shopping at the mall, even if she isn't going to buy anything?

Smoothy, I don't know any woman who has every intention of buying clothes at the mall and never buys any.

Next example puh-leeze!

Okay, here are some other examples:

YOu have a perfectly good cat. Why would you ever want to go to the zoo to look at other animals?

You have a perfectly good diamond ring--why would you ever pause by the jewelers to see what beautiful things they have for sale?

You have a perfectly good garden--why would you ever go to the botanical gardens?

You live in a perfectly good city--why would you ever go to another city on vacation?

You have a perfectly good musical selection--why would you ever listen to the radio?

It's not about HAVING the other women in strip clubs and porn. It's just LOOKING at them.

It's not about HAVING the other women in strip clubs and porn. It's just LOOKING at them.

So why do men who have perfectly nice looking girlfriends want to go out and intentionally pursue their eyes?

Men don't go to strip clubs to just "look," they go there to be turned on as well. What's the point of looking at something if there is no satisfaction from it?

Men don't go to strip clubs to just "look," they go there to be turned on as well. What's the point of looking at something if there is no satisfaction from it?


And being a woman you KNOW this about mens thoughts exactly how? And it differs from a woman window shopping when she doesn't want to buy anything exactly how?

An even better analogy... why should a woman want to read romance novels and watch any of the soap operas on TV daily? After all that's no different than a guy watching a nude woman dance that he will never be able to touch, much less be with.

Why does my wife like reading erotica? Shouldn't she get every bit of mental stimulation from me? Shouldn't I alone inspire her to the throes of deep passion and desire?

Why does she need more friends than just me? Aren't I the end all, be all? What is she seeking out that I cannot give?

Rhetorical questions, of course, and I suspect in the end we will just disagree. Personally, I don't go to strip clubs and don't chase down loads of porn. My wife doesn't like either and I can live without. Its not a battle I feel the need to fight.

But I am not threatened by her being friends with others, just as I'm not upset that she likes an occasional boddice ripper, or even a flat out compilation of short erotic stories. Should I be upset that shed rather see me in a tight tshirt than a baggy sweatshirt? I'm the same guy under there... so why is the primal response to visual cues bad?

Or its just bad when it isn't that one person you are with out of six billion people on the earth?

You cannot play both sides of the situation. Why is it hard to accept that a man might find a woman attractive, whether he is with her or not? Yes, we are visual apes and, yes, its often embarrassing how much the visual cues get right into our brains.

Dancing turns on my lover, as it does the same for me... but she doesn't have to only dance with me. So... is dancing with other men "wrong"? Some would say "yes" some would say "of course not"...

Every single time I go to a ballpark, I have the same rush of energy. The same visual stimulations, and anticipation.

And yes... if a man sees a woman he finds attractive, there's often a primal wondering accompanying that... it isn't just attaching a label of "pretty"... there are physiological changes in blood pressure, heart rate, brain activity. Even wondering what she might smell like or feel like. Its all but a mental reflex.

When you can find a way to rewire the male mind and alter often subconscious physiological responses, well, ill be scared.

I see attractive women all the time. I'm not ashamed. Not even when I feel that primal urge to chase. I've never cheated on one woman. Not once.

Oddly enough, every woman I've ever loved has cheated on me. Extreme case, sure, but please don't assume because a man get an erection tied to visual stimulation that the man is fundamentally broken.

I try to be polite. Ill talk to your face. But if you are wearing makeup I like... if that pushup bra you bought does all it advertises... if you painted your toes and fingernails and I notice. Uhm... what... am I supposed to find some way to ignore this?

I recognize it. Accept it. Manage it. And move on.

Now.. I do understand some of the point being made... you accept that a man can find a woman attractive for physical reasons... you do not accept that he should find any other woman sexually interesting... whether she's the stripper at a bar, the bikini clad girl at the beach, or the woman with the low cut blouse on the elevator.

I'm sorry... we can choose where we go for mental stim to some degree... and like I said, I've steered clear of some of those for my mate, but really... the primal urge id feel looking at an erotic dancer isn't all that different from the same urge id feel if a woman's skirt got caught by the wind and I saw her panties and more of her body than shed like to bare.

Unless you want to wear burkas and put me in blinders, that primal excitement is just a part of being alive for most men.

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.

I thought you were upset about the mental stimulation... the arousal...

So if a woman is aroused by erotica, is she also a "vicious pig?"

Or must the stimulation be visual and with skin showing?

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.

Whoa whoa whoa---

Your last line tells me a WHOLE lot about YOU.

Men don't turn into vicious pigs because they see more skin than their woman would like them to.

The ones that are vicious pigs about it are the ones that are vicious pigs anyway.

So women don't SEE men naked in bodice rippers--well, they IMAGINE them naked. Or I do, anyway.

And it's not the nakedness that is the problem. Guys don't want women watching soap operas and reading bodice rippers because --please note the irony here--it gives women an unrealistic idea of what romance is.

Just like porn/strippers (in the argument sometimes given against them) give men an unrealistic idea of what sex or the female body should be like.

Frankly, I'm not going to wear a burkha and outlaw strip clubs because too many women don't have enough self-confidence to deal with their man LOOKING (just looking, not cheating, not touching, certainly not ing) at another woman.

And I will say again:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

There is a difference between imagining and going to "look" at the real thing. I see as a sign of disrespect.

I agree that it is very disrespectful. If you're a single guy, go nuts, who cares, you have no one to hurt. But if your girlfriend or wife is hurt or offended by strip clubs, there is absolutely no reason why you need to go and inflict that hurt on her. Whether the man sees it or not, it is a sign of disrespect to the one he's committed to.

So is physical infidelity worse than emotional infidelity?

Depends on what you mean by "emotional."

Do you mean emotional with another man/woman, or emotional over a book or movie?

Oooooh... if a man is turned on because of a MOVIE---isn't that the same thing as a woman getting emotional about a movie?

So PORN is okay, but not strippers? By your reasoning, I mean.

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.Women watching soap operas and romance novels for the very same reasons men go to strip clubs when you compensate for how each gender responds to stimulai.


Would I go to a strip club? Yes... I have and do from time to time... In fact I sometimes bring my wife along too, I just don't have the free time to do it frequently.

And your comment about men at stip clubs turning into viscious pigs shows your bias here, and your obvious misconceptions... incidently, ever see women at a male stip club? They are 20 times worse than men at any mens club.

I agree that it is very disrespectful. If you're a single guy, go nuts, who cares, you have no one to hurt. But if your girlfriend or wife is hurt or offended by strip clubs, there is absolutely no reason why you need to go and inflict that hurt on her. Whether the man sees it or not, it is a sign of disrespect to the one he's committed to.
If a woman is that insecure... then that's her problem to deal with, not mine. Its controlling behaviour to demand what your significant other does for recreation assuming they aren't sleeping with their hobby.

I can go to strip clubs when I want... alone or with my wife, I even have some female friends that are nothing BUT friends... and know what... my wife isn't all paranoid and scizo about it because she knows exactly where she stands in my life... and doesn't spend her time worrying about something that isn't happening.

In other words my wife suffers from no lack of self esteme. In fact she ozzes self esteme.

I don't feel it's a self esteem issue. You could be the most confidant person in the world and still find strip clubs to be offensive. You could also have the self esteem of a floor mat and be totally fine with them. It's not a simple black and white issue. If a person is offended and disrespected by racial jokes, is it "controlling" to ask them to stop making those jokes because it's disrespectful? Definitely not.

Wait... so now strip clubs are equal to a racial joke?

Honey--I know women who have worked in strip clubs. It's a JOB, and one that pays a LOT more than most jobs you can get without a master's degree.

If you don't like them, then don't go. But don't project MORALITY (for that's what it is--it offends your MORALS, not your sense of discrimination) onto everyone else.

I think that drinking and driving is waaaaaay worse than strip clubs. However, I don't think bars should be shut down simply because there are morons out there that are idiots and drink and drive.

Not sure how much more ill volley back and forth... personally I think the less "external" stim you use outside of your partner, the better. Fewer "crutches"... but some people, like on the boards here, do a great job of being able to focus on their lover while using other aids and interests... for other couples, it just doesn't work well. But I won't label most activities as right or wrong just because I don't do them.

That said... explain the difference between a naked woman in a movie and a naked woman on stage... a person could rent or buy or probably download explicit media about a porn star coming soon to a stage near you.

Leave porn alone... look at any actress who takes her clothes off in any movie. Most of the time, its eye candy. Most of the time, it isn't crucial to the script. So... boycott all movies with nudity that isn't crucial to the storyline? If no, why not? Any man who finds women attractive will respond to that visual stim with a similar primal urge.

Is it the distance? A dancer on stage being in the same room... is that the line?

Time to ban bikinis from beaches... cause a good number of them don't leave much to the imagination when wet.

I'm not sure why you're taking such offense to what I said. I don't recall comparing strip clubs to anything immoral. My point above and all along has been that some people are offended by them and some are not. You are not and that's fine. Some people are, and that's fine too. If someone finds something offensive and disrespectful, it is their right to feel that way. A loving partner should be supportive of that. If he/she is not, then they aren't the right partner.

Most people who write in here with concerns about strip clubs or porn often include something like "why am i not enough"... which does play into self esteem.

Some might say "it is just disgusting and i wont accept it"... but many do have the "why does he seem to want more than me" question quite commonly.

My point above and all along has been that some people are offended by them and some are not...

If someone finds something offensive and disrespectful, it is their right to feel that way. A loving partner should be supportive of that. If he/she is not, then they aren't the right partner.

I agree with much of this, with some wiggle room. Like I said, I think there are battles that you choose to fight or choose to walk away. I'm "supportive" of my partners preferences and have no regrets about that...

What one cannot do is find "fault" in a partner and stay with them and continue to complain. At some point you choose to stay and not be a victim... so if the OP'er said "im with a great guy but he goes to clubs"... at some point she chooses to accept it or walk.

i agree with much of this, with some wiggle room. like i said, i think there are battles that you choose to fight or choose to walk away. im "supportive" of my partners preferences and have no regrets about that...

what one cannot do is find "fault" in a partner and stay with them and continue to complain. at some point you choose to stay and not be a victim... so if the OP'er said "im with a great guy but he goes to clubs"... at some point she chooses to accept it or walk.

I absolutely agree with you. Ultimately, I think we need to find partners that fulfill us in all ways. If you are the type that finds strip clubs disrespectful, then you need a partner that shares those values. If your spouse frequents them and doesn't seem to care how you feel about it, then that's not a healthy relationship. Likewise, if you like to frequent those places and your partner does to, more power to you. I think that different people have very different perceptions about what is cheating, or what is disrespectful. There is going to be a lot of variance on these issues... we need partners that are sensitive to these feelings.

I don't feel it's a self esteem issue. You could be the most confidant person in the world and still find strip clubs to be offensive. You could also have the self esteem of a floor mat and be totally fine with them. It's not a simple black and white issue. If a person is offended and disrespected by racial jokes, is it "controlling" to ask them to stop making those jokes because it's disrespectful? Definitely not.
I consider Soap Operas Offensive... I consider left wing radicals offensive... can we ban them too out of respect for those who work for a living being expected to support the lazy bums who won't... personally I'd love that.

Fact is if a certain individual has a problem with stip clubs they need to live with it... everyone else has to live with other peoples issues we find offensive or just dislike every day. Your rights end right where someone else's begin so to speak. And a good point to remember is that some of your own actions might be objectionible to others... like where you park on the street etc. helps put it all in perspective.

I apologize for saying that man turn into "vicious pigs." Only some do.

I will say this once, only because I feel like I have opened a can of smelly worms. I find strip clubs and porn to be offensive because 1.) It's degrading to women and 2.) Often men imagine this is what their girlfriend or wife should look/act like.

I am not saying this because I'm an insecure and jealous woman, I am saying this because women who are smart and happen to be pretty don't get the respect they deserve so when you put porn and stripping into the picture, men will only see women as a piece of meat or "eye candy."

I apologize for saying that man turn into "vicious pigs." Only some do.

I will say this once, only becuase I feel like I have opened a can of smelly worms. I find strip clubs and porn to be offensive because 1.) It's degrading to women and 2.)Often men imagine this is what their girlfriend or wife should look like.
You are certainly entitled to that opinion...

I've also spent my life avoiding women with atitudes like that (and trust me the world is full of women that don't)... and married one of those that didn't have it.

Point to remember is if you plan to expect HIM to give up enjoyable stuff like that... but get your panties in a knot when he demands YOU give up stuff you enjoy in return. It's a two way street remember. When it becomes a one way street on demands then divorce is knocking on the door.


EDIT: I thought of a better comparison... Sure you are offended by porn and strip clubs... lets take that a step further... there are men that are offended by women who even show ankle etc... force them to wear Burqas (head to toe burlap sacks in public), you know the Taliban... and other radial Muslims like in Saudi Arabia. It that any different? Not really, just a bit more extreme. But are their demands any less fair or realistic to force upon others?

You are persistent, aren't you?

I get your point: You like strip clubs. End of story.

I don't quit understand what you mean by "women with attitudes like that." Like what exactly? That I find strip clubs to be degrading against the female species?

What are you trying to win here? You have your opinions, I have mine.

You are persistent, aren't you?

I get your point: You like strip clubs. End of story.

I don't quit understand what you mean by "women with attitudes like that." Like what exactly? That I find strip clubs to be degrading against the female species?
No less persistent than you are on the topic...

You have a poor attitude thinking all men should bend to YOUR opinion. That they aren't entitled to free will and do as they wish.

Lets say I thought Burqas were a good idea and all women should wear them in public and not be seen with unrelated males ( just an example)... would that opinion be wrong too?

America happens to be very different in how they want to present women. I would rather contribute my brains and good heart to society than to show my body off. That's just me!

What are you trying to win here? You have your opinions, I have mine.
And I'm not trying to force my will upon others... while you are.


You may not like Strip clubs... well don't go into one... you may not like Porn... so don't watch it. Nobody is forcing you to.

I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities???!!! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women!! Ugh.

"Pandoras box"-http://www.geocities.com/una_sorella/stories/pandora.htm

No, I"m not suggesting that because you are a women, this happend to you. YOu made your choice, now you must live with it. YOu can talk to him and expalin your sistuation, feelings and such; but it may also do you well to find a counseler to find out why you feel like this.

One thing, it may not be comforting at first but, the book the brain that changes it'self by Norman Doidge M.D. has some good points of interest on this kind of thing. It talks about how the brain releases certain chemicals, causing a possible addiction to these things. It exlains in a round about way how to over come such things. It can either help you by figuring out yourself and why you feel like you do, or understanding why he maybe doing what he is doing, or both. I"m sure there is more ways that that, but it's a pretty interesting read. You'll want chapter 4 acquiring tastes and love. Talks on porn addiction, and B&D. (Bondage and Discipline) and more. Most of the book is about neurological studies of the brain and how it's able to change it's self. Then it explains how we can change our thinking, feelings, and actions. Though you may have to read into it more to understand how that all ties to gether.

Peace and kindness.

I think it's possible that it's difficult for men to understand that women could feel degraded by men that glorify them in strip clubs. Modern culture has taught us that the only women who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for men... it seems so rare that a man gets degraded in the same way that porn degrades women. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are male strip clubs, but I've only heard of other women going there to get a good laugh, and even then, the number of male strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of female strip clubs. Perhaps it's just something that men don't think about and/or understand.

I am not trying to force my will upon others as well, although it may seem like that because you and I are in a heated topic.

I think it's possible that it's difficult for men to understand that women could feel degraded by men that glorify them in strip clubs. Modern culture has taught us that the only women who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for men....it seems so rare that a man gets degraded in the same way that porn degrades women. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are male strip clubs, but i've only heard of other women going there to get a good laugh, and even then, the number of male strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of female strip clubs. Perhaps it's just something that men don't think about and/or understand.Again... purely perspective of women with self esteme issues.

Talk to some dancers... being degraded... hardly... they are in control and sucker guys out of their money for a little jiggle. Many make over $500 an hour for doing nothing more than shaking their butt and laughing on their way to the bank. Hardly women being exploited. This isn't a third world Brothel we are talking about. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the world because it does... to both sexes for different reasons.

Who gets upset about men preffering in shape women that take care of themselves? Obviously the larger women that can't be bothered to exercize or watch their calorig intake. Trust me women get the same way when it comes to men... they case after a arrogant Brad Pitt rather than chase after the really nice guy that happens wo weight 350 lbs. So its not purely a guy thing there.

Its always been that way... people gravitate to what appeals to them... and always have, and always will.

And plenty of women play guys to get their money, get intentionally pregnant to get what they want usually from guys they never really cared about, as long as they had money in their wallet. We call them Golddiggers. Never a shortage of them.

Women can't claim a moral high ground... they have done even worse over the eons. And I've never claimed men had the moral high ground either. Its human nature.

I am not trying to force my will upon others as well, although it may seem like that because you and I are in a heated topic.
You are... you are having a tizzy fit because everyone won't agree with you and think that men have the right to watch porn and naked ladies... married or not.

You don't have to like it... but you do have to accept it.


Man I feel sorrty for any man that has to deal with that crap every night. In whatever household that might be.

I don't mind my fiancé going to a strip just like he doesn't if I go. We had went to strip clubs together and separately. It isn't something he do all the time because he isn't addictive to it. The last time he visited a strip club was 1 1/2 years ago.

I have a few females friends that goes to the male strip club quite often and I must say the male strip clubs were way rowdier than the female strip clubs. I don't go because it not my cup of tea and the females at the males strip clubs was too loose and wild. Well at least at the male strip clubs I went to.

I've used this answer before, and it applies here as well:


Here's my take as a porn peruser in a committed relationship.

Yes, there are things that I would change about my girlfriend's appearance. Specifically I'd love it if she got a set of DD implants. It's not happening, and I'm good with that, as it's her body and occasionally she lets me touch it.
I watch porn mainly for the situations and picture myself with her performing said activity. Yes it helps if the person in the clip is attractive as it helps if I lose focus, but it all comes back to her.
I love my girlfriend and have no plans to run off with "Candy Dejour" (fake name don't bother) as I feel largely fulfilled by our relationship, even if I have to barter for "special" events.


If you're disturbed with what you saw, ask him about it, if it doesn't involve pee, poo, blood, animals, or kids consider trying it, if it does.....RUN!

Now as far as strip clubs being the root of all evil : Not hardly. The guys are being taken advantage of far more than the women they're "exploiting". Strippers make a good deal of money and they take it from saps who'd never have a shot with them outside the club. The guys are paying for the fantasy - and generally that's all they get.

You are.....you are having a tizzy fit because everyone won't agree with you and think that men have the right to watch porn and naked ladies....married or not.

You don't have to like it...but you do have to accept it.


Man I feel sorrty for any man that has to deal with that crap every night. In whatever household that might be.


I did not specifically state "All men must not watch porn and go to strip clubs."

And I feel sorry for your wife who has to deal with your sick fixtures to t*ts and a**, because after all that's what women are for, right?

[QUOTE=smoothy;1686986]Again... purely perspective of women with self esteme issues.

Talk to some dancers... being degraded... hardly... they are in control and sucker guys out of their money for a little jiggle. Many make over $500 an hour for doing nothing more than shaking their butt and laughing on their way to the bank. Hardly women being exploited. This isn't a third world Brothel we are talking about. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the world because it does... to both sexes for different reasons.

Who gets upset about men preffering in shape women that take care of themselves? Obviously the larger women that can't be bothered to exercize or watch their calorig intake. Trust me women get the same way when it comes to men... they case after a arrogant Brad Pitt rather than chase after the really nice guy that happens wo weight 350 lbs. So its not purely a guy thing there.


Again, I don't think it's as simple as self esteem. I know several educated, beautiful women that are fit and take care of themselves. Have successful careers, and have very healthy self esteems and feelings of self worth. Yet, many of those people find strip clubs to be degrading. Is it because they have poor self esteem? Nope. You'd have to ask them yourselves, but I believe it's because of the negative connotations associated with these clubs. One of the women I speak of has a masters degree in psychology and has actually done extensive research in this field. The research she did found that the majority of women working in strip clubs had extremely low feelings of self worth. Most of them began to hate men because of the way they acted in the club, and some of them would only date other women - not because they were born lesbian, but because working in the clubs had created such a loathing and mistrust of all men. Most of the women also had drug issues. Most got high or drunk on a consistent basis just so that they could deal with the objectification and the horrid way in which the men acted. Note that I keep saying the word "most". I'd have to ask my friend on specific statistics, but in all of these various examples I am giving, the statistics were well over 65%. That's very significant I think.

To each their own, but I don't believe that sacrificing yourself dignity for money is empowerment, and I don't believe that it equates to self respect. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I would much rather scrape by doing something that I loved to do and gave me a feeling of real accomplishment and self worth. To me, accomplishment is not looking a certain way and having people stare at you and then in turn give you money for that.

I don't mind my fiance going to a strip just like he doesn't if I go. We had went to strip clubs together and seperately. It isn't something he do all the time because he isn't addictive to it. As a matter of fact the last time he visited a strip club was 1 1/2 years ago.

I have a few females friends that goes to the male strip club quite often and I must say the male strip clubs were way rowdier than the female strip clubs. I don't go because it not my cup of tea and the females at the males strip clubs was too loose and wild. Well at least at the male strip clubs I went to.

That may all depend on the laws where you live.

Around Washington DC, a Gentlemans Clunb (strip joint) will loose it license to operate if..

#1 underage people are in it

#2 any drugs are discovered there

#3 any prostitution activity

#4 patrons are allowed to touch the dancers beyond slipping a bill in the garter belt.


There are plenty of other rules and licenses do not get reinstated. They basically loose the license to practically print money if they allow any of those.

But Women I know that have been in both types say the women get more crude and more rowdy where they've been.

And I feel sorry for your wife who has to deal with your sick fixtures to t*ts and a**, because after all that's what women are for, right?
Why feel sorry for my wife, she goes to the club with me and points out the better built women on the street and at the mall to me. And that's her idea, not mine. I love my wife... and she's no prude. We watch porn together and have one hell of a good sex life after 17 years of marriage every day in fact, sometimes twice a day. Are you able to make that claim?

So a woman is prude because she doesn't like strip clubs? Hmmm?

I can see this is going no where Mr. Smoothy. Good luck with your strip clubs.

I think it's possible that it's difficult for men to understand that women could feel degraded by men that glorify them in strip clubs. Modern culture has taught us that the only women who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for men....it seems so rare that a man gets degraded in the same way that porn degrades women. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are male strip clubs, but i've only heard of other women going there to get a good laugh, and even then, the number of male strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of female strip clubs. Perhaps it's just something that men don't think about and/or understand.

"I think it's possible that it's difficult for women to understand that men could feel degraded by women that glorify other men in general. Modern culture has "conditioned/wired/brainwashed" us to interpret that the only men who should be valued are the ones that look a certain way. I don't know what a fair comparison is for women....it seems so rare that a woman gets degraded in the same way that media/the past degrades men. Perhaps it's a feeling that they can't relate to and/or understand. Sure there are Female strip clubs, but i've only heard of other men going there to get a good laugh, on the side sex and even then, the number of female strip clubs does not come anywhere close to the number of male stigmas. Perhaps it's just something that women don't think about and/or understand."

MMmmm, yes, though my argument is some what off in there, I sense that the point is quite clear. Over generalizing doesn't not seem to be very helpful, so much as it is a hindrance. To move past sexism and things of the sort, we would need to stop using stereo types so that we each, as individuals in individual situations, open our minds to what is really in front of us.

Generalizations are too hollow, fake, inconsistent, and do not represent every one fairly. "Believe nothing no matter where you read it, no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense... rely on real wisdom not superficial interpretation... rely on the essence of your pure wisdom mind not on judgmental perceptions... The tongue like a sharp knife kills with out drawing blood. Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world... Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace... All conditioned things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Try to accomplish your own salvation with diligence."- Buddha

One word that brings peace? "Being"


Peace and kindness be with you.

Its human nature.

But, does it have to be?

[quote=smoothy;1686986]Agin...purely perspective of women with self esteme issues.

Talk to some dancers....being degraded...hardly...they are in control and sucker guys out of their money for a little jiggle. Many make over $500 an hour for doing nothing more than shaking their butt and laughing on their way to the bank. Hardly women being exploited. This isn't a third world Brothel we are talking about. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the world because it does....to both sexes for different reasons.

Who gets upset about men preffering in shape women that take care of themselves? Obviously the larger women that can't be bothered to exercize or watch their calorig intake. Trust me women get the same exact way when it comes to men...they case after a arrogant Brad Pitt rather than chase after the really nice guy that happens wo weight 350 lbs. So its not purely a guy thing there.


Again, I don't think it's as simple as self esteem. I know several educated, beautiful women that are fit and take care of themselves. Have successful careers, and have very healthy self esteems and feelings of self worth. Yet, many of those people find strip clubs to be degrading. Is it because they have poor self esteem? Nope. You'd have to ask them yourselves, but I believe it's because of the negative connotations associated with these clubs. One of the women I speak of has a masters degree in psychology and has actually done extensive research in this field. The research she did found that the majority of women working in strip clubs had extremely low feelings of self worth. Most of them began to hate men because of the way they acted in the club, and some of them would only date other women - not because they were born lesbian, but because working in the clubs had created such a loathing and mistrust of all men. Most of the women also had drug issues. Most got high or drunk on a consistant basis just so that they could deal with the objectification and the horrid way in which the men acted. Note that I keep saying the word "most". I'd have to ask my friend on specific statistics, but in all of these various examples I am giving, the statistics were well over 65%. That's very significant I think.

To each their own, but I don't believe that sacrificing your self dignity for money is empowerment, and I don't believe that it equates to self respect. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I would much rather scrape by doing something that I loved to do and gave me a feeling of real accomplishment and self worth. To me, accomplishment is not looking a certain way and having people stare at you and then in turn give you money for that.

I know and have known a few dancers... dated two as well. You froiend with the statistics that suspiciously supports her personal feelings on the case... I consdier suspect. No woman dancing around here does it because she is forced to... they do it at will, and in fact pay the clubs to dance from their tips... they make serious money. They can quit whenever they want. True, I'll agree its not for everyone... and incidentally did your friend tell you that most dancers don't nessessarily look kindly upon those for trowing money at them?

Yeah you are going to have lesbians everyplace... not just Dancing.. and not because of dancing. Hell a couple screwed up women would not turn me gay after all. Dancing doesn't turn women lesbian unless they had the predisposition in the first place.


Quite a few get Masters Degrees in College paying for it with dancing... finish school debt free and walk away. Not uncommon here at all.

So a woman is prude because she doesn't like strip clubs? Hmmm?A prude makes snippy comments about other peoples likes because they do not agree with her own.

Just like women who will not do oral, anal or anything but missionary. Yet think they are gods gift to mankind. And there are women out there like that... total bores in bed that honestly believe they are the greatest thing walking the earth. Because I very briefly dated a few and they can't possibly be the only ones like that..

But, does it have to be?Yes... because otherwise you end up with people like Chairman Mao or Pol Pot (just two of many examples) "reeducating" people who don't agree with THEIR way of thinking. And we all know the results of that.

[quote=blingaru;1687044]

I know and have known a few dancers....dated two as well. Yuo froiend with the statistics that suspiciously supports her personal feelings on the case.....I consdier suspect. No woman dancing around here does it because she is forced to...they do it at will, and in fact pay the clubs to dance from their tips....they make serious money. They can quit whenever they want. True, I'll agree its not for everyone...and incidently did your friend tell you that most dancers don't nessessarily look kindly upon those for trowing money at them?

Yeah you are going to have lesbians everyplace....not just Dancing.. and not because of dancing. Hell a couple screwed up women would not turn me gay after all. Dancing doesn't turn women lesbian unless they had the predisposition in the first place.


Quite a few get Masters Degrees in College paying for it with dancing....finish school debt free and walk away. Not uncommon here at all.


I don't recall saying that her personal feelings supported her research before she started it. In fact it was the research that made her feel the way she does. The school she went to was actually one of the highest rates Universities in Canada and believe me - if her research was biased in any way - she wouldn't have graduated and wouldn't have passed her thesis.

I also didn't say it turned women lesbian - and I also feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with being lesbian. What I said was that women who were born heterosexual could no longer have heterosexual relationships because of the negative feelings their work gave them towards men.

Perhaps the strippers that you know fall into at 25-35% of women who don't have ill effects. Have you thought that although the women aren't "forced" into it, that they may not have any other options due to lack of education and lack of credible job experience? Most good jobs require similar experience. I can't see any good job hiring anyone who's only job experience was in a strip club.

80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

A prude makes snippy comments about other peoples likes because they do not agree with her own.

Just like women who will not do oral, anal or anything but missionary. Yet think they are gods gift to mankind. And there are women out there like that...total bores in bed that honestly believe they are the greatest thing walking the earth. Because I very breifly dated a few and they can't possibly be the only ones like that..

Kind of like us, acting like we know all the answers, but really we know about as much as any one else? ;)

[QUOTE=45notdaddy;1687150]80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.[/QUOTE

Statistics can be made up. But if you're doing research that is going to be printed in a scholarly journal, you have to back up where those statistics came from. You also have to re-do them several times to see if the results you got the first time were acurate. All of the research was very well documented. "making them up" doesn't fly in a serious post-secondary academic setting.

[quote=smoothy;1687119]


I don't recall saying that her personal feelings supported her research before she started it. In fact it was the research that made her feel the way she does. The school she went to was actually one of the highest rates Universities in Canada and believe me - if her research was biased in any way - she wouldn't have graduated and wouldn't have passed her thesis.

I also didn't say it turned women lesbian - and I also feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with being lesbian. What I said was that women who were born heterosexual could no longer have heterosexual relationships because of the negative feelings their work gave them towards men.

Perhaps the strippers that you know fall into at 25-35% of women who don't have ill effects. Have you thought that although the women aren't "forced" into it, that they may not have any other options due to lack of education and lack of credible job experience? Most good jobs require similiar experience. I can't see any good job hiring anyone who's only job experience was in a strip club.

Depends on what work they are willing to do... there are quite a few people that think they are above doing certain types of work... or unwilling to live within the means they are able to earn. Which is their own fault.

Now is it possible those dancers I know fell into that percentage you quoted? Yes its possible... you are going to have a percentage of people with issues in many jobs, including Law enforcement.

As far as University Studies credibility... I can't speak for Canadian Universities... I know little about them, but I do know most US Universities seem to be populated with left wing extremeists who will fail students that disagree with their opinions for any reason... sad but true. Being a college graduate myself, I see the political lean to many "studies" on certain topics. So excuse me for not accepting many at face value.

Yes.....because otherwise you end up with people like Chairman Mao or Pol Pot (just two of many examples) "reeducating" people who don't agree with THEIR way of thinking. And we all know the results of that.

From the day we were born, we were "reeducated". This seems Highly pobable since we did at some point have ancestors that didn't have cars, plains, trains, or automobiles. We don't know what human nature truly is, but I might say that everything that any one ever does is a result of human nature. Naturally we became more intelligent, and thus we learned to "reeducate" ourselves.

Look at it this way, we don't need a computer, a big 1800sq' house, super exxpencive clothes, 2 cars, and so on. We know we could live with out them, but we choose not to. Simply by choosing this, we are "reeducating" ourselves. Essetially we become the blind leading the blind.

[quote=45notdaddy;1687150]80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.[/QUOTE

Statistics can be made up. But if you're doing research that is going to be printed in a scholarly journal, you have to back up where those statistics came from. You also have to re-do them several times to see if the results you got the first time were acurate. All of the research was very well documented. "making them up" doesn't fly in a serious post-secondary academic setting.

Still a lot of those can be creatively faked... or distorted. It may take work... but if you have a board that expects certain results... those results can be found one way or another. I can't think of specifics to cite when this has happened recently but there have been cases that I remember.

[quote=blingaru;1687161]

Still a lot of those can be creatively faked...or distorted. It may take work...but if you have a board that expects certain results....those results can be found one way or another. I can't think of specifics when this has happened recently but there have been cases.

True. However I believe the statistics that supported her thesis were in line with countless other studies that were done at different times by different people in different places. That much distortion is highly unlikely.

From the day we were born, we were "reeducated". This seems Highly pobable since we did at some point have ancestors that didn't have cars, plains, trains, or automobiles. We don't know what human nature truely is, but I might say that everything that any one ever does is a result of human nature. Naturally we became more inteligent, and thus we learned to "reeducate" our selves.

Look at it this way, we don't need a computer, a big 1800sq' house, super exxpencive clothes, 2 cars, and so on. We know we could live with out them, but we choose not to. Simply by choosing this, we are "reeducating" ourselves. Essetially we become the blind leading the blind.
We have how many Billions of people on this earth... and there is always one group willing to FORCE their way upon others if given the chance... by force if nessessary. And they will harm or kill those who won't conform.

Pol Pot Killed millions who didn't fit his idea of acceptable... Chairman Mao killed millions as well as Stalin... killed tens of millions for not embracing their socialist ideal for the "Good" of the nation.

I personally detest everything those mentioned people stood for or preached... I will not be reeducated support their beliefs. Nor will I accept them.

Human nature is there will be many different schools of thought... human nature isn't to kill anyone who will not agree with your way of doing things however.

But that is getting way off topic of Adult sexuality and getting squarely into politics.

Okay... this is now getting off-topic.

Either stick to how the OP (or any other woman) can get over the issues she has regarding strippers/porn, or take it to Member Discussions.

Calling men vicious dogs for watching a woman strip isn't that much different than calling someone a prude for hating the same thing. They are both name calling.

As for smoothy's wife... do we need to go there? Really?

One must assume that because they (she and he) are more experimental than some and interested in more things that some call taboo, that he only sees her as t&a?

*sigh*

Nestorian... thanks for your posts. As to "human nature" I would say, often, yes... but that doesn't dictate how we must act. Again... if I see a curvy woman on the beach, I AM going to have some element of primal response. Period.

That doesn't mean I only define every woman by their physical appearance. I'm not completely stupid (this is where my partner says "really?")

In fact the only consistent attribute in every woman I've ever dated, and usually find attractive, is confidence. I'm not saying I haven't pursued women also because I was physically attracted on some level... of course I have.

Okay...this is now getting off-topic.

Either stick to how the OP (or any other woman) can get over the issues she has regarding strippers/porn, or take it to Member Discussions.

Yep. This is a couple more blows away from being shut down and cleaned up.

yep. this is a couple more blows away from being shut down and cleaned up.

Just put it down now please. http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7686/deadhorse3vy.gif

True enough smoothy, we are off topic. I do agree, but also stongly disagree with most of what you said, but back to Strippers, and Adult sexuality.

Sww420, Talk to your husband and let him know how you are feeling. Open and honest seems to be wisest. If he does not resipricate, well it's up to you to decide what to do, counseling may help but other than that, I'm not sure what may help.

Peace and kindness.

True enough smoothy, we are off topic. I do agree, but also stongly disagree with most of what you said, but back to Strippers, and Adult sexuality.



Well I base my comments on 47 years of personal actual life experience in more than one country, city or state. Also having hung out with some extremely diverse crowds during those years. So they may vary from the eperience of someone who has not traveled extensively or lived abroad for a substantial period with different cultures. Or from the contents of a textbook regurgitated at some University. Life is hugely far different than what the perspective of a college professor might lead you to believe it is.

I've actually intimately known heroin addicts, Drug dealers, Prominent Motorcycle Gang members, prostitutes, dancers, Doctors, Surgeons, High ranking Politicians from more than one country, Fortune 500 Company CEO's, Attourny Generals, muderers, Rich, and dirt poor people including people from more countries than I can remember, people who never had formal schooling to people with PHD's. I've spent a year where the only time I met someone that spoke english was on the telephone.


Just wanted to toss a little perspective on where I am coming from and why my perspective may seem so different than what some of you learned in a classroom or have personally experienced.

:)

See here the dancers or go-go girls are not to dance or make contact with the men (usually with escorts they can)... and I could understand how you feel in light of that. But you have to let it go... it isn't often he goes and so, let him go do his guy thing - he is coming home to you anyhow. I had a pretty crazy bachelorett... the guys do the touching, dancing, etc (women are far worse and rowdy then men - well I think anyhow) and I would have been upset if my hubby questioned my loyalty. You can express to him how it makes you feel and start accepting it yourself... booze, women, sexual encounters, sexual content, all those hard-on's (I have worked as an on floor waitress at the joint and they usually get so excited can't leave the table for a while until they calm down) NO WONDER THEY SPILL THE BEER!! Hahaha, just kidding - but it doesn't hurt to have fun with the idea :). Don't think about it, it is much easier for you this way because in your heart you KNOW he won't cheat on you and you know how much you and this relationship mean to him. I had issues too... I became numb to the idea and emotions - it has helped. Now I am trying to do that with everyone else... sometimes removal of emotions allows you to see it as it really is.

Give up trying to understand guys... just as they try to understand us... it isn't going to happen and you will have to make compromises... honestly use your energy elsewhere - maybe work it off at the gym or buy something nice and say "I am Worth It!".

Good luck.