That's funny. :p

While you're at it, why not make up your own religion? What does Jesus have to do with it anyway? Why have rituals? What does it matter that Jesus established them? Why become a member of Christ's Church? What does it matter that Jesus established it?

Yeah, that's funny.

How much control do we have over our likes and dislikes. Example, you go to a movie. You either like it or not. Say you did not like it. Now, someone else tells you that you should because it had all the parts that make up a good movie. Can you make yourself like it just because someone said you should. I hate tea, and no amount of convincing about how refreshing it is is going to change how I truly feel about it.

I feel the same way about formal religion. It just rubs every nerve in my body the wrong way. Rituals bore me and are often just something that drones on and means nothing to me. I don't believe Jesus cares HOW we come to him. Christians don't corner the market on God or Jesus.

cozyk,
Of course you can believe as you wish but that does not change what did or taught by word and deed.
There was purpose in everything Jesus did and taught and He ask all you want to follow Him to abide by what he did and taught.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Envy, boastfulness, self seeking, anger, and record keeping are the traits that are ego fights for. The absence of ego would make all of us more Christ like. The "awareness " or "observer " part of you, witnessing all those egoic traits is called "stillness", "presence", or "Christ with-in." God is love and love is God. EVEN if it is between two people of the same sex.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Love keeps no record of wrongs.

I suspect that the general theme of the bible in the original languages is that God is LOVE. The same bible that religion has used to try to control the minds of the masses with fear and guilt is the same bible that screams that God is LOVE.

I believe it is such a crying shame the way the bible has been used as a weapon to control with fear, guilt, and shame. That is the opposite of what I believe God intended.

Does not our heavenly Father teach us about love not only by His words but also by His actions and example? Also isn't God capable of saving the world on His own and without our help and without our permission? Wouldn't a loving earthly parent rescue their child from an oncoming car against that child's will? Is it really such a tall order for God to save His creation without their consent?[/QUOTE]

This is what I meant by gathering ideas from others. I never looked at it this way but it makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks.:)

cozyk,
Is it wrong for a parent to tell their children that is they don't obey they will be punished?
It is a warning, something to be respected, not feared.
Fear enters the picture when a child has done wrong. It is then that the child fears getting the punishment he/she was warned about.
If the child confesses the wrong with sincerity most parents will forgive.
God has promised that He will forgive sins which are confessed with sincere remorse.
That is more liberal than most parents will do.
It is the mark of unconditional love.
We are taught by Jesus the we should also forgive endlessly.
He told us that God will forgive us as we forgive others.
Thus that is one way in which Jesus taught us to be like God.
So it is wise, thoughtful, merciful, and God like to forgive others sins.
I went to Mass this evening and asked for forgiveness.
I have already forgiven everyone who has sinned against me via thought, word or deed whether I know about it or not.
That includes people in all walks of life, some I do not know that have sinned against me. As an example people in government who may have sinned against me in some way like taking away one of my freedoms or people who want to stifle my religion comes to mind.
That is how I asked God to forgive me.
I have no doubt that He has done so for God does not break His promises.
I thank God with all my heart that He IS a God of perfect, infinite love and mercy.
Think about that deeply. Will you do the same?
If not, why not?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Think about that deeply. Will you do the same?
If not, why not?
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Rate this Answer

Think about which part? I already believe God is a God of love, forgiveness and all that is good. That is why I don't believe in hell. I think we are an essence or being before we are born, we visit this planet in the form of a human body and when we die we are back to the "being" That is why we are called human beings. We are beings having a human experience for a finite time and then we continue to live on as beings. Life, it never dies, it just changes form.

cozyk
I meant think about all that U said including the forgiveness part and the part of God being our heavenly parent who warns us about possible punishment if we do not obey Him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

cozyk,
Is it wrong for a parent to tell their children that is they don't obey they will be punished?
It is a warning, something to be respected, not feared.
Fear enters the picture when a child has done wrong. It is then that the child fears getting the punishment he/she was warned about.
If the child confesses the wrong with sincerity most parents will forgive.
God has promised that He will forgive sins which are confessed with sincere remorse.
That is more liberal than most parents will do.
It is the mark of unconditional love.
We are taught by Jesus the we should also forgive endlessly.
He told us that God will forgive us as we forgive others.
Thus that is one way in which Jesus taught us to be like God.
So it is wise, thoughtful, merciful, and God like to forgive others sins.
I went to Mass this evening and asked for forgiveness.
I have already forgiven everyone who has sinned against me via thought, word or deed whether I know about it or not.
That includes people in all walks of life, some I do not know that have sinned against me. As an example people in government who may have sinned against me in some way like taking away one of my freedoms or people who want to stifle my religion comes to mind.
That is how I asked God to forgive me.
I have no doubt that He has done so for God does not break His promises.
I thank God with all my heart that He IS a God of perfect, infinite love and mercy.
Think about that deeply. Will you do the same?
If not, why not?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

We could go around in circles about this forever. I think the main difference we have is that you give God human like characteristics where he is making judgments, rewarding or punishing our souls. Abide by the christian view, go to a "place" called heaven. Don't abide by the christian view, go to a "place" called hell.

I think God is an essence that IS life. He didn't make life , he IS life. He IS love. He IS goodness. He IS truth. He doesn't spend time keeping score of our good deeds or sins.
He is a part of us before, during, and after our time on earth. On earth our ego is trying to block him out, but he is there in you "be still" that is shut down the noise in your head and just be. My fav verse that rings true to me. Be still and know that I am God.

cozyk
Your belief in God is interesting but I believe in the biblical God and hell.
I also believe in the human-like characteristics we got from Him when He created us in His image. That is why He is called Almighty Father.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

cozyk
Your belief in God is interesting but I believe in the biblical God and hell.
I also believe in the human-like characteristics we got from Him when He created us in His image. That is why He is called Almighty Father.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Cozyk - I have to second arcura. Your belief in God is interesting. I do think your view of God somehow serves your own private interpretation of life and reality as you see it. In other words, God and what "it" is like, is a complete construct of your own imagination. God as you see him, fits your worldview model and there is no room for the possibility of morality and its demands upon our choices. In your concept of reality with God in it, there is no need for moral absolutes; no need for righteousness; no need for defining the purpose of my existence. In your world, there is no need for good and equally no need for bad. I can be whatever sort of person I want to be and God will love me all the same; no matter if I absolutely detest him and despise him. I think this view of God is self-serving and trivial; it totally denies the need for pursuing good and learning to live for my creator.

Even as I write this, I know what I say is ultimately irrelevant to you—I guess I cannot help myself. As a rational human being, I cannot sit idly by and witness your caricaturing of the God of the bible and expect that I should not argue against the implausibility of your view of God. I respect you as a human being and your mind and your right to personal dignity as one created in the image of God. But your view of God stands against 2000 years worth of thoughtful wrestlings of men and women that spent themselves trying to understand life and its meaning; they sought to make sense of the world we live in by pouring their lives into examining life and examining the bible to see whether what the bible was saying was right. Many of these same men and women even faced untimely and cruel deaths to defend the integrity of the bible and of God. However, God need not any defending because he is the one who searches the minds and hearts of people and is not on trial. Cozyk, I think you have really stopped short of being a thoughtful and reflective person because as I said before, in your mind your view of God and your interpretation of reality is all that matters to you. Your view carries its own authority because you are the god of your own existence—you call the shots and your view of life is what is true. This I think this is your major downfall because you base all of your arguments upon your own view and you are certainly fallable just like we all are—it is that point that I cannot seem to get past and must continue to make it.

But again, what does it matter? We all reach a point of no return in our thinking where no amount of reasoning can change our minds about what it is we are committing ourselves to. I know that I am wasting my time trying to convince you. My views do not matter but if I am right, I am willing to defend the authority of the bible and give compelling arguments for the others readers who may not know there is another way of looking at reality than yours, Cozyk.

Respectfully.

.... But your view of God stands against 2000 years worth of thoughtful wrestlings of men and women that spent themselves trying to understand life and its meaning; they sought to make sense of the world we live in by pouring their lives into examining life and examining the bible to see whether what the bible was saying was right.......
Respectfully.

Not only against them, but also against they who were inspired by that same God directly to communicate to us His nature and being.

Sincerely,

Well put Jakester






G&P

jakester,
You have done a lot of thinking about CozyK's beliefs.
Your effort also made me think.
Thanks.
You are right to stand by and defend the bible for it does contain the word of God as well as the teaching by both words and deeds the Son of God.
Extremely important they are.
It troubles me when so called Christians do not believe in something that Jesus said.
While here with us He was walking talking doing truth.
An example are those who do not believe in hell.
All I can say about that is "wait and see the truth about that."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

It simply didn't happen... If it did, I undeniably find myself tortured and but a pawn stranded without my queen, bishop, or knight ( my best friends on the board lol)

We do not spend as much time on life and its meaning as do we spend on the afterlife. It is but our fear of what may be... that drives us towards our religious paths whatever they may be. I do say that Mans Fear created each book that holds its own God(s) for much modification has been stitched and restitched into each religion, and will be so until the last days. For death is certain and such comes the fear and when fear enters your mind, just as do a child, your imagination contorts and creates both a hell and haven to balance your sanity. This is how we have gotten so many forms of a specific religion today. Hatred between Christians and other denominational Christians Jews and Christian-Jews and even in the Muslim world. Religion is all about the fear...

Deffinition of "UNCONDITIONAL + LOVE: With out conditions/ absolute. + a deep feeling of fondness and freindship; great affection or devotion." By deffinition of the Gage Canadian Dictionary

Humm, does "GOD" in the bible not request that you follow him or he shuns you, sends you to damnation in hell?

This all depends on many factors. Such as the situation, the persons understanding, a persons interpretation, a person's actions, and the temperature, the elsments around the situation, the elements of the people involved, the cells that make us up and so on. NONE of us knows, with a shadow of a doubt that GOD truly exsist. If you do, then you do not have faith, for faith requires no evidence, proof, or any indication at all. So, this comes down to are you a believer, or do you have faith, or are you afraid of death and what may or may not happen after...

Lets say you did not believe in GOD, and you believed in the "FORCE". You are totally committed to keeping the peace, meditation, a sierous mind, feeling the flow of energy around you, trainning, and above all resisting temptation. He dies, then get to go to hell for being quit possibley thee most amasing person ever?? Am I to believe that GOD will love this guy, then send him to hell? Or at least deny him access to heaven.

Personally, I see that as a totally human trait, and GOD would, since "he" is all knowing, know why every person ever committed anny act. GOD would know, understand, and appriciate the Human Fualts. We are not as capable as we assume, or at least not until we are able to see what really is.

Some have mental illnesses, others are warped due to various forms of abuse, some are afraid, some are angery(still affraid), and some are Greedy, and some are confused, and so on.

Judge who you will, but the worst person in the world is that who would assume more than they know, and call it TRUTH...

Yes, GOD can be many and any things. We all interpret, percive, understand, learn, see, hear, and express things differently.

1+1=3 Go a head, tell me I'm wrong, I'd be interested to see you do it... :) haha, sieriously, this is so really very simple, but so many people will tell me, 1+1=2 nothing else.
There is a trick to this equation, the situation to which it is applied. If you agree cool, if not, tell me why?

Unconditional love be with us all, for "the only love you keep is the love you give." ;) Buddhist saying I believe, it may be out of the book, awakening to your life's purpose, by eckheart Tolle.

Peace be with you all, and may we be with peace.

Nestorian ,
Yes 1 + 1 can = 3
Man + Wife have a baby = 3.
But as far as the rest of your post goes, I believe what the bible says about God, Heaven and hell.
It is my living authority.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The idea of two equal faiths having mutually opposed tenets is irrational. There can be only one absolute truth, without which we would have a schizophrenic God.

The argument that takes the form; “one religion is as good as another;” is a notion that is terribly illogical. Given any two denominations if either one holds one or more mutually contradictory fundamental truths (without the conflict they wouldn’t be different denominations), since both can’t be true, one or both must be wrong. Since religion shouldn't teach error in faith, then these two religions can only be equal when in error. The religion without an error is said to represent God’s reveled truth and as such is the one, true, universal faith.

JoeT

It may be irrational but who gets to say which one is THE one? I don't believe there is just one. I just know what resonates in my soul as the one for me.

I agree with you cozy k.In fact religion and rationality don't go hand in hand.People chose to believe in books that are written by men, they choose to believe in God when they have not seen him which is all irrational.

It may be irrational but who gets to say which one is THE one? I don't believe there is just one. I just know what resonates in my soul as the one for me.

Let me see if I got this right; you get to choose what God will build up? Sorry, you don't get a choice – just like you don't have a choice to be born or not - it’s just one of those truths one finds in life – like the force of gravity, it draws you toward the one center, while providing righting forces. The choice has been made by the Creator. You do remember Matthew 16:18; “That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Christ commissioned his Church directing it to be one, as Christ is One with God. You call it the Roman Catholic Church; its real name is the Church of Jesus Christ. Would you make Christ a pretender by abandoning what he had promised to protect, even against the very gates of hell?

JoeT

Let me see if I got this right; you get to choose what God will build up? Sorry, you don't get a choice – just like you don't have a choice to be born or not - it’s just one of those truths one finds in life – like the force of gravity, it draws you toward the one center, while providing righting forces. The choice has been made by the Creator. You do remember Matthew 16:18; “That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Christ commissioned his Church directing it to be one, as Christ is One with God. You call it the Roman Catholic Church; its real name is the Church of Jesus Christ. Would you make Christ a pretender by abandoning what he had promised to protect, even against the very gates of hell?

JoeT

You should know by now that quoting scripture to me just makes me run in the other direction. It is only as valid as you believe the bible to be. "God", "the church" "Church of Jesus Christ" "Roman Catholic Church" whatever you want to call it is found "within". Not "out there" in a bible or any other religious book. All that is just filler that does not matter really. What matters is that you make your connection with your creator and establish a personal relationship with Him, and lead your life, His gift to you, in a way that would be pleasing to Him. And to know that you can count on Him for strength, and comfort, and clarity of wisdom. The rest takes care of itself.

The part I bolded from your posts. I don't even know what you mean by that:confused:.

cozyk,
Your opinion is interesting, but as a bible believer I very much disagree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

cozyk,
Your opinion is interesting, but as a bible believer I very much disagree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I know you do Fred and that is okay. I say to each his own.

cozyk,
Yes, I also believe "to each his/her own.
Fred

Altenweg
I only meant that when someone treats me bad I should not expose that someone to judgement ,after all the Lord taught us how to pray and He instructed us to forgive and bless even our enemies. By by writing cover I meant cover with love and that does not mean hide or not talk about it but talk and bring to light everything bad the way that our Lord did.He has many things against me but He never insault me or call me names no matter what I have done.He always tells me what I have done wrong and how I mistreated Him through my neighbour and that is the truth but this is always covered with love.So I never meant hide , or shut your mouth but bring to light , tell the truth and cover it with love !

It's very simple to me, you may never turn your back on your children but that doesn't mean they won't turn their back on you. It's that free will thing, you can't force them to love you and trust you and stay under your wing any more than God forces the same on His children.

It's very simple to me, you may never turn your back on your children but that doesn't mean they won't turn their back on you. It's that free will thing, you can't force them to love you and trust you and stay under your wing any more than God forces the same on His children.

And even if your children do turn their back on you, deny you, curse you even, would you send then to a place where they would suffer agony for eternity?

Sure, they are given the choice to obey or dis-obey, but even if they dis-obeyed, I'd say that hell thing is a little harsh.

To the hell believers, would you send your child to an eternity of damnation for disobeying you?

And even if your children do turn their back on you, deny you, curse you even, would you send then to a place where they would suffer agony for eternity?

Sure, they are given the choice to obey or dis-obey, but even if they dis-obeyed, I'd say that hell thing is a little harsh.

To the hell believers, would you send your child to an eternity of damnation for disobeying you?

You're complicating this. When my children turned their backs on us they ended up in a hell of their own choosing... but we always have a soft place for them to land when they decide it's too much.

Cozyk,

It is unconditional unless you choose to die in your sins. THEN it is your choice. He gave his ONLY son. I have three myself. Can't imagine given up ONE of them for people who say... "well, that's a nice jesture but I guess i will do it MY way". Personally if I were God I would be furious but He isn't. He will work with you until the day you draw your last breath to come to HIM... on HIS terms. His love is unconditional but HE gave you free will, HE won't force himself.

( hey Speech! Missing all your wisdom over here) ;)

You're complicating this. When my children turned their backs on us they ended up in a hell of their own choosing...but we always have a soft place for them to land when they decide it's too much.

That makes no sense. That says you will go to hell under your own choosing but god will take you back into heaven when you decide hell is too much.

Cozyk,

It is unconditional unless you choose to die in your sins. THEN it is your choice. He gave his ONLY son. I have three myself. can't imagine given up ONE of them for people who say..."well, that's a nice jesture but I guess i will do it MY way". Personally if I were God I would be furious but He isn't. He will work with you until the day you draw your last breath to come to HIM...on HIS terms. His love is unconditional but HE gave you free will, HE won't force himself.

( hey Speech! missin all your wisdom over here) ;)

"die in your sins" what does that mean? Would Mother Theresa go to hell if she lived the same life she lived, but did not know Jesus as her savior? Love is not unconditional when the word IF is involved.

Cozyk,

It is unconditional unless you choose to die in your sins. THEN it is your choice. He gave his ONLY son. I have three myself. can't imagine given up ONE of them for people who say..."well, that's a nice jesture but I guess i will do it MY way". Personally if I were God I would be furious but He isn't. He will work with you until the day you draw your last breath to come to HIM...on HIS terms. His love is unconditional but HE gave you free will, HE won't force himself.

( hey Speech! missin all your wisdom over here) ;)

Where does final judgment fall into this reflection? Why then does Paul say, “Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them: and their thoughts between themselves accusing or also defending one another, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.” (Romans 2:15-16). Is it the suggestion that that there is no consequence for our actions?

JoeT

Where does final judgment fall into this reflection? Why then does Paul say, “Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them: and their thoughts between themselves accusing or also defending one another, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.” (Romans 2:15-16). Is it the suggestion that that there is no consequence for our actions?

JoeT

Joe, could you please translate this for me. I've read it several times and it is just unconnected words to me.

Joe, could you please translate this for me. I've read it several times and it is just unconnected words to me.


Translation:
Where does final judgment fall into this reflection?

God tells us there will be a final judgment. Catholics hold that this will happen immediately after death. He will judge deeds as well as thoughts. 'T' implied that God loves us and because of this love he'll just 'overlook' judgment, i.e. no consequence for sin. My question to 'T' is how do we rectify this apparent contradiction.

JoeT

That makes no sense. That says you will go to hell under your own choosing but god will take you back into heaven when you decide hell is too much.

Again complicating things, I don't think my kids can choose to come home after they're dead. But in the mean time there is a loving sanctuary waiting for them to come home to.

( hey Speech! missin all your wisdom over here) ;)

How sweet, Tessy. If I ever find that wisdom you're referring to I might hang out here more ;)

Joe,

Non Catholics believe the final Judgement takes place at the Great White Throne after the 1000 years of Christ reign on earth. The Lord will deal with everyone who rejected his Son at that time. As for me, my sins were place on Christ never to be remembered anymore... far as the East is from the west.

No Joe, let me make it clear, I do not believe that God will over look anything. I was saying that the LORD will work with the unbeliever until he draws his last breath. It is the Lords will that ALL be saved. But once you die without Christ, I believe the scripture teaches there is no hope and only judgement.

Again complicating things, I don't think my kids can choose to come home after they're dead. But in the mean time there is a loving sanctuary waiting for them to come home to.

You have changed the direction of my question.
Pretend you are god.
You have a child.
He does not obey you.
You punish him, not for a time but for eternity.

Now, you had warned this child, given him free will, hey, he had a choice so it's his own fault. So, since he did not obey your word, you will punish him in the most horrible way, and with no end. Eternity is a LONG time.

I don't believe in hell because no loving parent would let that happen to his child NO MATTER WHAT.