Okay... I've been browsing this forum for a while now and I'm finally going to ask the big question that has been weighing on my mind... but a little bit of history first, so bare with me here.

My ex and I were together for 5 years. I fell for her hard and she fell for me just as hard. We were an exact match for each other. Same interest in music, same goals, liked all the same things... yada yada yada. Anyway, I have this undying, unconditional love for her like nothing else I've ever experienced. I'm 28 and divorced once... so I've been in plenty of long term relationships... well, I forgave her for cheating on me twice early on in our relationship... the first year to be exact. I wasn't there to give her what she needed from me because of my job, so shame on me there. Things began to surface that I seemed to have no control over... well, I guess I did but I didn't do anything to correct the problem until it was too late. I would lie to her about things... whether it be that bills were paid or the check book was done, or if I had done my fair share of the work around our house. I grew to the point to where I would rather tell her these "little white lies" than be scalded for not doing what I said I would do... another mistake on my part... right? This woman stood beside me during a time when my family was not speaking to me and basically disowned me. Her father was like the father I never had and when I finally got around to asking him for permission to marry his daughter, he was happy to tell me that he wouldn't want anyone else to marry her.

Well, the BS grew and grew. I got a fairly decent job after moving to her home state and was well on my way to having my life on track once again. Then she gave me the ring back and told me that she couldn't marry me... after 5 years? So then I of course began to get to the point to where I quit trying. Yes, there's a 4 year age difference between us, her being younger so I understand that since we got together when she was 19 this could have a huge part in the reason why she also became rather wild.

Anyway, we broke up 3 months ago and she now tells me every time she talks to me that she hates me and never wants to see me again... of course, I went through the stalking phase... checking to see if she was online and everything... had "friends" that would tell me what she was up to and all that silly stuff... now here is the twist... recently, she has gotten to be unusually nice... example being that she heard that I've been down with flu and she made it a point to text me and tell me that she hopes that I get to feeling better and we can sort things out after the new year... this is unusual because I know her so well. You know... you can always read through each other's BS when you've been with someone so long... and I know exactly how her grudges work... she doesn't talk to the person for a good six months or year, and then suddenly wants them back in her life. It's just who she is.

Now, I've tried my best over the last 3 months to move on... I knew early on that I wouldn't be ready for a relationship for quite a while. So, I've been avoiding serious things. I've been on a few dates, go to the bar and dance until closing time... things like that. I work out on a regular basis and all of the stuff you're supposed to do when you break up with someone... Like I said though, I've tried my absolute best and can't move on.

I feel as though I need to earn back the trust, respect, and love that I've lost. I know this is going to sound stupid, but this girl, this woman... she's my angel and I know it. I've given myself the space and everything needed to move on... I moved back home, got around new people and all but stopped contact with mutual friends. For some reason though, I can't do it without trying to earn back those things from her. I know that she has an opinion in all of this and you can't force someone to do things they don't want to do... I knew without a doubt in my mind... a week or two after we had started dating that I loved her and she was the person I was going to spend the rest of my life with... everyone says it, I know... but this was different for me. I'm not an emotional person because I was raised that you don't show those feelings all the time... it causes you to lose your integrity as a man... but I lost that when I decided to lie to her and put a price on her heart... I know that many of you will just tell me to move on, but this is very important to me... it means a lot to me, but I have to find a way in first... she's said that she has moved on, but I know that she hasn't because of the way that she acts and the sound in her voice when I have answered the phone when she calls. She's just filling the void with other things.

The hardest part is that I've lost the trust and respect from her family that I had as well... this is the hardest one to win over... I know I've got my work cut out for me, but does anyone have any helpful suggestions at all? How do I get those things back again?

and just a small addition. I talked to her a few weeks ago. Just a random conversation about personal stuff that still has to be sorted out and she told me "If you want to win me back, you're going about it the wrong way." This in no way gave me any false hope... but I brought it up to my brother (who happens to be 15 years older than me.. you know, wisdom) and he said that I still have a shot to get her back if she's saying things like this... but I'm not betting the bank on it either.

Well, the BS grew and grew. I got a fairly decent job after moving to her home state and was well on my way to having my life on track once again. Then she gave me the ring back and told me that she couldn't marry me... after 5 years? So then I of course began to get to the point to where I quit trying.

I am taking you seriously.

But what BS grew? And what happened when you quit trying. I get the impression there's a lot packed into these couple of lines...

I continued to hide things from her around the time that she gave me the ring back. When she did give me the ring back, I didn't necessarily quit trying... I became a little needy for lack of a better word... but I didn't give her everything she knew I could... I didn't make an effort to take care of her like I once did...

It sounds like you've been untrustworthy. I'm going to assume you were hiding something like a spending habit or porn, since you don't say.

I am not sure what you mean about taking care of her. Presumably she's an adult and can take of herself. She sounds pretty adult generally from what you've said. So you must mean something else. You wouldn't sleep with her? You didn't spend time with her? Not sure what you mean.

I think that since you cannot even articulate what you did wrong, the chances that you can win her back are slim. Saying you love someone very much is not enough to compensate for lying to them and or withholding from them, which it appears you did.

In order to move forward, I would say you need to at least acknowledge to yourself what harm you did in the relationship and apologize to her for that. (And I'm not trying to paint her as perfect and not making any mistakes.) But I think you have some work to do in terms of acknowledging how you might have hurt someone. After that, you have to make a conscious decision to banish that kind of behavior from yourself, to begin acting in an honorable fashion. Then you will be able to offer love and respect to someone, whether her or some other person.

If you do get back together, in addition to acknowledging what you did wrong, apologizing for that, and promising not to do it again, you should make some attempt to make it up to her in a way she finds satisfying. Rebuilding trust takes a long time.

Just my two cents.

I can say that in no way do I have a spending or porn habit.. lol... umm... no. What I'm saying about hiding things is yeah, I lied to her... I never cheated on her and was more than loyal. Of course I've been untrustworthy... I know that and that's the reason I'm in the mess I'm in.

Taking care of her on the other hand. What I mean by this is that while yes it's next to impossible during these times... I had a job where if say she got tired or mad and wanted to quit her job, she could and we would have nothing to worry about. I had the ability to take care of her financially and provide the security that would keep our house together...

I don't mean to sound frustrated, but this is very important to me... I've acknowledged the fact that what I did was wrong... I guess now it's up to her whether she allows me to work on building it back or not... but by her recent comments I can't help but think she's open to it.

All right, All right,

Let me take a crack at this one Asking (Great Person and Intelligent Individual), I'm going to say that she might just be trying to settle for you again, things didn't work out with out you, so now your there to run back to. Could be wrong, surely but, what does it matter, she's talking to you willingly which is a huge plus. My ex broke my heart over a month ago, and I haven't spoken to her,:( So I think her initiating contact, wanting to talk, and saying that winning back quote is a good thing in your eyes, and mine too, but please protect yourself from false hope.

As for your past... who cares. Your past is going to be your past for a reason, I believe in this case if you can both get your heads around the past you will be more then fine. Just remember that what's done is done, do NOT ever bring up the past if you guys reconcile and decide to see each other again. The universe tends to work itself out, follow your heart, and do what you think you should do. I can give you all the advice in the world, and guide you but, you should do what your heart says.

Take Care,
LCM

I am sorry but I don't agree with LifeChangesMan at all on the past being the past or at least until you deal with your situation and get past it - then it can be in the past. Evidently women are very deep creatures and though we forgive... we never forget. You absolutely need to discuss your wrong doing and untruthfulness because this will confirm to her that you have done a lot of thinking, personal reflection and relationship reflection. Wanting to change for the better for her and more importantly, for yourself. Acknowledging your contribution to the relationship downfall and ways of making the future more promising. If she is making attempts to talk to you then take it slow as this is a good sign; start by rebuilding a friendship and showing her that you are genuine and honest. Little steps lead to big changes. As it goes for the family, you haven't done anything to them directly so keep it positive and don't give them any pertinent details of the break up. She can do the explaining and mind changing but chances are the parents know their daughter and will trust her character judgment... after all it is her life and they will support her.

I also don't like the idea that you have taken on the idea that you are going to take care of her. I think she can take care of herself and treat her as a woman not a child. Encourage her to be successful and support her in her career objectives... this is giving her power to succeed in her life... if my husband did that while we where dating I would take that as his way of trying to control me. Let her grow up, make her decisions and own up to her own mistakes... you are not to take responsibility. If you seriously care about her maybe you can take some counseling for telling white lies or so to speak... what are the triggers and how you can change it? This is also an impulse thing and is seen as a behavioral issue... get help and that will show her your really trying.

"If your trying to win me over your going about it the wrong way?" What was being discussed?

April, maybe you misread what I said, lol. I think we said the same thing, I don't know?

But if not it's okay to disagree!

Thanks guys... I have started seeing a counselor and stuff to get past some of these problems. I've got my brothers to talk to which never seem to sit in judgement of me, so that helps too.

As far as what was being discussed when she said that; We were making arrangements to take care of personal stuff (signing over vehicles, exchanging small stuff that we have of each others) and I was being a little bit of a jerk... She had asked me if I started drinking like some of our mutual "friends" (I put that in quotes for an obvious reason) had said... and I told her yeah... I go out and have a few drinks every now and then, but in no way am I an alcoholic... for one, it would completely destroy my job and that just can't happen... but yeah, I'll go out one night a week and have one or two drinks with friends and whatever.

So then she assumed that I was lying to her and that's when the phrase came out... Like I said, I don't have any false hope because she constantly tells me that she's moved on... well, before she said this... but I can't imagine her settling for anything at all.

Of course, she has every reason to question me, and even more so because she's not close to where I live at all, so she's unable to see what I'm doing to improve myself and everything... but that's okay. I plan on moving back to the state where we were living and going back to college next semester... I don't have any kind of false hope, but at this point I would rather know that I have her as my friend than have her hate me...

I am happy to hear you are attending a counselor to get past some personal issues and it is wonderful to hear that you have family support.

Ahh, now I see what she means and how is she suppose to trust you when you have been untruthful before right? You have no ability to defend yourself and you have also come to the conclusion that you don't have false hope, which is a difficult concept for most, so good for you. Unfortunately, the last time you both chatted was to clean up some loose ends.

Your desire now is to maintain friendship and not reconcile? If that is the position you take then I think that was a mature decision to take…try to stay positive and civil during the process of exchange (if it is not already resolved) and don't tell her “I have changed” but without using those words tell her about your growth, improvements and future goals…that you are in counseling…that you intend on going to school – “show” her by “action”. Also don't stop showing interest in her if you do love her. I honestly think you should always act according to how you truly feel, always work to the direction you want and never deliberately destroy efforts because it is going against your hearts desire. It applies to love as it applies to any other concept to me... at least you know you have made the effort and at least then she will respond; as a result, you will know where you stand. At that time, you can both work it out or move forward in different directions.

Oh no... my absolute desire is to gain her back as not only my partner, but as my friend as well. It's important to me that we have a good friendship though... but if that's all she's willing to give me, then I'll take the frienship. I've been positive when talking to her. She called me today to see if I was feeling better and I let her know that I was. She asked me what I had been doing recently and I finally decided to tell her about the counseling. She was shocked and ever since I talked to her earlier, she's still being unusually nice... I don't get how she can go from hating me to being nice to me just in a matter of days...

Oh no...my absolute desire is to gain her back as not only my partner, but as my friend as well. It's important to me that we have a good friendship though...but if that's all she's willing to give me, then I'll take the frienship. I've been positive when talking to her. She called me today to see if I was feeling better and I let her know that I was. She asked me what I had been doing recently and I finally decided to tell her about the counseling. She was shocked and ever since I talked to her earlier, she's still being unusually nice... I don't get how she can go from hating me to being nice to me just in a matter of days...

Maybe she "sees" that you are making efforts... this is a good sign. Don't question it... grow and grow and let her be apart of it. She is human and has a lot of emotions... concentrate on improving yourself and making her feel important and loved.

It's still kind of hard to make her feel important and loved when I'm over 500 miles away from her... Sometimes I don't even know where to start with that one. Especially when she's made it a point to tell me that she has moved on and doesn't have the time or the energy to look back anymore... Maybe she's confused or maybe I'm confused... who knows... but at this point I'm just following my heart.

Yeah that would be difficult. If she made her point clear then you know where its going... you want a friendship so maintain that so long as it stays beneficial and it appears you will have to move on. Maybe at some later date you two can come back together but it seems that you both have a lot going on.

So.. something even more awkward happened tonight.

Her brother called me to see if I was okay. He said that he was worried about me and thought he should give me a call. This is odd because we haven't spoken in over two months. He said that she told him that she couldn't believe that I was taking things so seriously and actually doing what I needed to do. The conversation didn't last long, but he said that she has been worried about me, but right now she's confused because she doesn't want things to go back to the way they were before. I guess it's my job to seal the deal and show her that it's not going to happen like that...

It sounds hopeful. But I agree with xoxaprilwine about focusing on becoming a better person and not doing it just to get her back. Congratulations on your resolve and determination!

Your scared of her, and you know it.

Scared of her? I'm not scared of her... she expects a lot, but I'm in no way scared at all. I'm afraid that I've completely lost my best friend over BS that I could have avoided.

Thank you for your comments, asking. I am focusing on these things for me first and her secondly. She deserves more from me than just an apology...

I have seen guilt, and regret, go a long way in making someone change, but your so scared of this female, you will change for her.

That's not healthy, and if you really wanted to change, you wouldn't be telling her about it, you'd be doing it for you, no matter what she does. She should be looking for you, because she wants you whether your changing or not.

In case you don't know, you have good reason to fear this female, because if you don't do as she wants your toast any way.



I would lie to her about things... whether it be that bills were paid or the check book was done, or if I had done my fair share of the work around our house. I grew to the point to where I would rather tell her these "little white lies" than be scalded for not doing what I said I would do...another mistake on my part...right?


Everything you have done is out of fear, and you can change anything you want, but if fear is your motivation, and it is, you'll never stand on your own.

Healthy relationships grow together, not one partner trying to convince the other, that he isn't the screw up, she thinks he is.

You two haven't broken up, she is sitting on the porch with a skillet in her hand, ready to clock you one, unless you straighten up your act, to her satisfaction, and that will be how this relationship will always go, no communication, no working together, just you trying to meet her standard, and her with that frying pan, ready to administer some, holy hell on your head, and you know good, and well, she can do it. I have no doubt she has before.

Oh to be clear, my point is she has too much influence, but after 5 years, you sure gave it to her, and honestly, maybe that's the kind of female you need. You're a well written, guy, but fear is in everything you have written. I understand, but I ain't agreeing.

That does not mean that I fear her... it's called getting tired of drama. I did many things to escape this drama over the 5 years we were together... I even got a job that made me less available... all to get away from the drama.

In no way, shape or form do I fear her... It's called doing right by someone. I'm hard on myself because I was raised to be better than that... I've never feared a woman, and I never will fear a woman.

If that were true then, just curious, why did you walk on eggshells, and have to lie about stuff men always get chewed out for? Explain this drama thing to me, and if it was as bad as you say, what's all this changing to get her back for?? What kind of changes are you making? Are you going to admit you didn't do her honey do list, or did you mean by change your going to do them, and don't have to lie any more?

Please help me understand what you mean by change.

The changes I'm making aren't just for her. They are being made for me. She asked for a part of me that I wasn't willing to give to her. A part of me that only my ex wife had seen. She had only heard about it from my family and old friends, but seen only glimmers of it.

There was a time when I was, for lack of a better word, brutally honest with people. If you wanted to know something and you asked me, I would tell you... no matter how much it might hurt the person I was telling, or myself.

I've overcome a lot in my life. After leaving my ex wife at the age of 20, I became an alcoholic. During the next 3 years, all I would do is work and drink. That's pretty much what my life consisted of for the entire 3 years. Then one day I was at work and spontaneously decided it was time that things changed. I dropped what I was doing, went to my house, packed my things and left. I headed back to where I grew up. Two weeks after this, I met her. I was fresh out of a situation that I remember almost killing me. I told her this and she stood beside me the entire time. She became my support system for beating the addiction that had almost brought my life to an end less than a month earlier. She was selfless with it. I never asked for her help, she just gave it to me.

She grew to see the potential that I had and did everything she could every day to make sure I knew that I was capable of more than what I had already accomplished. I'm not a very religious man, but I became convinced that this woman was my angel. She stood beside me during a time when my own family wouldn't even talk to me... Her family was the family that I never really had. They respected me for who I was and never expected me to change just for them.

I was once too proud to admit when I was wrong. I refused to back down and stood firmly by what I said, even if I didn't always believe it. I tend to wear my pride... she always had to hide her pain... it just wasn't fair to her and now it's time that I've done something to correct those problems. First and foremost, this is for me... but she is a very, very close second.

So, you want to know the reason for this change? I owe it to a lot of people... including myself. In my world, trust and respect is all a man has. It doesn't matter what you have or the materials you leave behind. It's all about the memories and the legacy you leave behind and the way that you impact the lives of others.

It seems pretty deep, but it's the way I've been thinking these days since I've gotten my head clear. I tell you these things not because I want someone to feel sorry for me or pitty me, I tell you these things because you asked.

I don't agree with talaniman this time. His post sounds like he is saying that she has no right to ask a partner to do his fair share and that, as a woman, she should know her place and make no demands.

I don't hear that earnitback is "afraid" of her and I think saying that is meant to be an insult to make it seem like trying to work toward a more equal partnership where both people are honest and contribute equally is somehow unmanly. I think it IS manly to be honest, helpful, and upright. How could that possibly be wrong?

I think earnitback is trying to change his life for the better and deserves support and recognition for that.

Always remember something. Whether it be a little white lie or a big lie. A lie is a lie. And no trust equals no relationship. Take what you learned from all of this and apply it. And I hope everything works out for you.

Keep your head up brother. Not down.

Thanks, Bobby. That's the thing, I know better and that's why I've been working hard to correct that, as well as other things.

I'm confident that I can earn it all back, but I'm not closed off to the possibility of it not working either...

I'll keep my head up and my shoulders back... standing tall just as I have for the last few months.

Just don't do it in a sense of winning her back. Do it because its what's best for you. Because I'm sure you don't want to go and make the same mistake again. By showing her as well as others that your taking charge in the wrongs that you have done and correcting it. You proving to them and to yourself. That you are a true person.

I thank you, and apologize for seeming harsh, but I needed info, and some truth.

I will give you some very fair warning though, at least as I see it, put no one on a pedestal higher than your own.

Just my take on it, and offered as food for thought.

You still haven't explained the drama part, and the behavior it brought out of you.

Well, like I said earlier; I'm going to do it regardless... if she doesn't want to be with me after the changes have been made, that's okay. At the very least I could end up with her being my friend again.

What brought it on is that she got to where she was pretty hard on me. She knew and knows that I'm capable of doing and being more... and in turn, she expects it. I felt for a while like I had to be perfect... trying to do everything right and never make any mistakes at all.

I only realized after the engagement was broken off and I had left that she wasn't asking for me to be perfect... she just wanted me to be me to my full potential.

Some things have me bothered right now though... like her brother calling me last night to "check on me" which was completely random because we don't speak anymore. I know him well enough to know that he was influanced by something or someone to just randomly call me on a Monday night after 10:30... it just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Being harsh is okay. At least I know that if you're being harsh, you're being honest... that's what I need right now and I'm more than willing to extend the same in return.

ABout the brother.I think you are right in thinking she was talking to him and probably expressing her own concerns. Or possibly it got to him through some intermediary. But I assume his concern was genuine and he probably felt guilty for not having stayed in touch. Take it kindly, I think. If you want to stay friends with him, call him back some time.

My friend your both afraid to let each other go, and the only thing wrong with that is, its important you stand on your own for a time, and get to your own center, and define who you are, without her.

No disrespect, honestly, but floundering in limbo, is no good for any one, and until you know what your own path is, don't expect her to follow, or anyone else for that matter.

You have nothing to prove to any one, and really should forgive yourself, and be clear that you can't make things right, until your right with yourself.

I really feel its time to let go, and take a chance on yourself, by yourself, without her as a crutch.

Its up to her to figure out if your worth trusting, or not, and thats best done without your influence.

I really think that's the only way to balance yourself, and this relationship enough for it to be equal, or to have a chance.

Until you can let it go, I don't think either of you will know, if its really worth the risk of trying, and stop dancing around each other.

Don't be so hard on yourself. We all make mistakes in life. Sometimes yes, we do find out after it's already too late, but you know what? It's okay. We're human and things like that happens to the best of us.

I think it's best if you do as Tal says and let go for a little while. I know it's hard, but you'll find yourself more without her on your mind... then you can both approach the situation with a clear head and maybe even put the past behind you. Don't worry though... do all of this changing for yourself... because in the end, you're the only one you have to prove anything to.

I'm not being hard on myself. I'm taking responsibility for what happened and my own doing. I've tried to let go of her... I cut contact with her for a very long time. I avoided phone calls, text messages, emails, and even missed a friend's funeral because I didn't want to see her... so I've done my absolute best to let go and move on...

It's not like I haven't been dealing with the pain or running away from it. I hit it head on and I decided to take power over it. So now, three months later I've made great strides and I know it... people around me know it.

She does too, probably, but that's not your concern, she is a big girl, and can make up her own mind, let her as you do have a life to build, with or without her.

Tonight has been kind of a rough one for me. I got off work and headed to my house... everything seemed to be fine. I had a friend call me and we talked, etc. for about thirty minutes and during this time I missed her call.

She called to tell me that she hopes I have a Merry Christmas. Yeah, it's so small and shouldn't matter, but for some reason it does.

A couple of hours later she decided to text message me and ask if I was headed back home to spend time with my family. I told her not yet because I want to make sure I show up early in the morning when all my nephews and nieces are waking up... it'll be a good surprise for them.

She responded back and said that she wanted me to tell my family Merry Christmas for her. I messaged her back and said, "You know, you can call my mother and tell her...she was asking about you a few days ago." Which is completely true... she messaged back and asked me to please do it for her.

So yeah, I tend to over analyze things because for one... I'm a math major and two, it's something so close to my heart. I think that maybe she's just feeling a little blue seeing how this is our first Christmas apart in 5 years... so maybe that's all it is... maybe she's trying to reach out to me... there's no telling at this point...

I know this is going to be a killer, but I'm going to be honest with you just as Tal has been.

I would chalk it up to her just trying to be nice or trying to make herself feel better about the situation. Yeah... my ex did the same thing to me this afternoon... I didn't think anything of it though.

So, don't get any wishful thinking there, man... It's possible that she was doing it just to see if she could get some attention out of you too. I tend to over analyze things too because of the line of work I'm in... I investigate everything until I come up with an answer... so I understand where you're coming from... just don't let her ruin your holiday.

Well, Christmas went well... she sent me a few texts throughout the day and it got to me a little, but I didn't let it ruin my day in any way at all... which is good.

The last text she sent me had "XOXO" at the end of it... I talked to my counselor this morning and he says that it sounds like she is trying to get back in very slowly... but I don't know for sure. My entire problem right now is that I'm wondering if she's playing games or not... maybe to find out if I still feel the same about her, or if I've just completely dropped her and moved on.

I haven't let her know how I feel at all and all communication that I send her is kept to a minimum to keep her from knowing whether I still have feelings for her or not... I guess that's a smart move, but at this point my impatience is getting the best of me...