This is something that has puzzled me for a long time.
Prostitutes are arrested in the streets of USA for soliciting while they do a brisk business right under the law's nose in those many so-called massage parlors and via so-called dating services. Why is it condemned on the one hand and winked at on the other? Taxes??

Perhaps because it is easier and takes less time to arrest street prostitutes as opposed to those at massage parlors or escort agencies?

You're probably right, Captain. I heard just recently in my town they busted one of those. Don't remember the details but it probably takes a lot for paper work a preparing to do this. A detective could have a hunch and the whole town know they do this but to actually have this place raided takes a lot more than seeing a prostitute on the street.

Street walkers are often the dirty and desperate prostitute, and are highly visible in the public eye. It's a priority for the city to try to curtail this activity in the interest of the general public, so police "crack down" from time to time.

By putting up a front of legitimacy, massage parlors and introduction services can hide the true nature of their business, keeping them out of the public eye (most of the time) and away from public pressure for the police to "do something" about it.

It's impossible to stop all forms of prostitution, so politicians and police forces do what they can, and then respond to public pressure when enforcement is demanded.

Philly has a point, I think it's because they do offer a legitimate service at first, like massages and what not, and all that is legal, the prostitution is what's not talked about you know. It's the secret ingredient if you will, and I think that is why they are not cracked down because a face value it looks like a legitimate business venture, but underneth that's when things get dirty. :)

As Philly notes it's a quality of life issue. People don't want to be offended, accosted or annoyed by overt acts. Also police don't have the resources to investigate businesses that can only be suspected of breaking the law.

Frankly, I think Nevada has the right idea. Legalize it so it can be regulated and taxed.

I agree ScottGem, same as in Amsterdam!
Its clean and safe, regulated and taxed.
Save a few problems in the streets.

Philly has a point, I think it's because they do offer a legitimate service at first, like massages and what not, and all that is legal, the prostitution is what's not talked about you know. It's the secret ingredient if you will, and I think that is why they are not cracked down because a face value it looks like a legitimate business venture, but underneth that's when things get dirty. :)

Or it could be that the cops are on the take along with some other high officials who might be pocketting the protection money just as Al Capone did in Chicago during prohibition. In fact, he had officials on the take.

I agree ScottGem, same as in Amsterdam!
Its clean and safe, regulated and taxed.
Save a few problems in the streets.

And in Germany it is legal in some parts.

I agree in one regard that it should be legalized, it has the potential to help the economy because they are being taxed and what not. However, it would really change the american psyche. For instance, most of the places now are out of sight out of mind, but god knows the minute they become legal they will start advertising. Now they will probably be discreet at first, but we all know over the years it will only multiply until it's on billboards, and that whole clean cut americana idea is now thrown out the window, and I fear a future of that in Back to the Future part 2. And if you remember correctly we already tried this back in 30's, where prostitutions was legalized and everything around it became slums. It really wasn't until the white slave traffic act of 1910 came about that their was laws on prostitution. Also note that not the entire state of Nevada agrees with prostition, it just so happens that the state says it o.k. but the county government gets to decided whether it is legal. Anyway, it really is a hard issue to debate, I think on one hand it would let police focus on more important issues, but I just see all these towns turning into Las Vegas. And if you haven't been there you won't understand. Porn magazines are sold on the streets like newspapers, and cards with a naked girls on them and a number on handed out every night by the thousands. They liter the streets every night. Every night. Every time I have been there which is like five times, it has always been like that. And it's hard to visualize like I said unless you been there, but porn just litters the entire strip, people stand on the sidewalk handing them out every night bagging it against their wrist to get your attention. I know I don't want that. I don't want to see that everyday. Fine it's out in the middle of the desert and it should be kept there. But not anywhere else. I want my family, especially when I have kids, I don't want them to be surrounded by that. Because sometimes ignorance is bliss.

I agree in one regard that it should be legalized, it has the potential to help the economy because they are being taxed and what not. However, it would really change the american psyche. For instance, most of the places now are out of sight out of mind, but god knows the minute they become legal they will start advertising. Now they will probably be discreet at first, but we all know over the years it will only multiply until it's on billboards, and that whole clean cut americana idea is now thrown out the window,

The advantages of legalization are in regulation. This allows it to be taxed, insures healthy partiticpants, and can restrict it. Such regulation would, no doubt, allow practitioners in only certain areas and revent overt advertising.

Or it could be that the cops are on the take along with some other high officials who might be pocketting the protection money...
We know there are dirty cops out there, and we know there's a certain amount of "looking the other way" by law enforcement on this (for various reasons - probably mostly political), but I think it's way off to suggest most cops working vice are corrupt and on the take.

It would be nice to have someone working in law enforcement give us a little insight into how city/state police prioritize these investigations.

Whether you agree it should or should not be legal - the police are there to enforce the laws the government puts in place, not judge your individual morality.

It's the same as the war on drugs only the low-level people get any attention from the police while the high classed dealers and prostitutes or call girls ,whatever, do their business with impunity and a degree of respectibility.

Its the same as the war on drugs only the low-level people get any attention from the police while the high classed dealers and prostitutes or call girls ,whatever, do their business with impunity and a degree of respectibility.

Call me crazy if you want to but in my book that encourages the criminal activity they are supposed to discourage. There is a certain statue which represents justice and it holds a scale in each hand. It also has its eyes blindfolded, I always wondered why.
Now I know.

Money talks and can buy a lot of blindfolds, money can also buy a townhouse or nice apartment and you don't have to walk the street, In America people with money don't go to jail or get hefty sentences, they can afford a good lawyer. Poor people go to jail and stay there.

The advantages of legalization are in regulation. This allows it to be taxed, insures healthy partiticpants, and can restrict it. Such regulation would, no doubt, allow practioners in only certain areas and revent overt advertising.

You say that however, but I am pretty confident that like anything else in this world, it would spread. If we can't maintain prostitution as it is, how do you think that when it's legalized we would be able to quarantine it or contain when we can't do that right now?

You say that however, but I am pretty confident that like anything else in this world, it would spread. If we can't maintain prostitution as it is, how do you think that when it's legalized we would be able to quarantine it or contain when we can't do that right now?

Look at places where it has been legalized and you don't see what you are predicting will happen. Practitioners would know that abuse is likely to remove the legalization.

I have seen where it is legalized and I did see what I was afraid, that was what one of my previous posts were talking about.

I agree with legalizing prostitution and put it under the scrutiny of legislators to monitor regulate and tax! The biggest failure in America is trying to make rules to ban the behavior of the population. This has driven these activities into the hands of criminals and a lot of money poured down a big hole with no abatement of the activity. All efforts to stop these activities including drugs and gambling have not worked for thousands of years. It is time for a new approach!

I agree with legalizing prostitution and put it under the scrutiny of legislators to monitor regulate and tax! The biggest failure in America is trying to make rules to ban the behavior of the population. This has driven these activities into the hands of criminals and a lot of money poured down a big hole with no abatement of the activity. All efforts to stop these activities including drugs and gambling have not worked for thousands of years. It is time for a new approach!

Wouldn't it be a bit contradictory for a government that claims in God it trusts to legalize things that the God it claims it trusts condemns?

What's contradictory is sending people who are more victims than criminals to jail because they fall through the traps that society creates in an attempt to say how morale or ethical they are. As this thread has already shown the police can ride up on any corner and arrest a female trying to get her fix on but they never bust the call girl trolling some yuppie bar looking for lawyers and doctors and judges. So keep it off the street and out of site and its business as usual, and that is where all the money is made. Its not about God its about money power rich and poor. Now that is a contradiction. Its not about God but in the way the government does its business.

It's really irrelevant to this discussion.
I tend to drift off topic sometimes.

This is one of those problems that in Theory it sounds nice, but it's just insn't practical. In the case of Las Vegas, I know there is no room to live on the strip, but I guarantee no one would want to. I also know that Las Vegas has been one of the top growing cities in America, but that is misleading to how it will handle other communities. Because the town of Las Vegas and the Strip are pretty much separated from one another, particularly by a highway cutting them off. The Rio is on the other side, but that is really only the other casino/hotel from the strip other than the freemont street. Like I stated before, it will spread I guarantee, and it will be a sad future to legalize prostitution. I personally don't think that unless you have been to Las Vegas, should you make comments about Nevada and it's going, because it's not a community for children or aspiring families. The problem with the red light district that you say will form once it's legalized will keep prostution in a corner, but it won't. What's next allowing the selling of drugs in another corner. Life finds a way(Jurassic Park). It will spread, and I know it will. It might be economically feasible to legalize prostitution however it opens the flood gates for some much more, and it really seems like there could be a more sensible solution. Maybe cracking down on it, isn't fixing it, but surely legalizing it is too drastic. Either way, I would not raise a family in a city that promotes it, because I do fear the worst, I fear that it would turn in to Las Vegas, and if that is what the future holds, I'm coming to canada. Either way I still get to watch hockey.

At one time I heard that they were thinking about legalizing in some parts of canada as well. I do not think it ever happened. The same goes for crack houses.

Joe

I hate to blow everyone's bubble, but gambling drugs and prostitution are growing in every city across the country and history tells us that putting people in jail only makes for the building of more prisons that cost YOU more money. The social impact is devastating to families. We need a better solution not more bury our head in the sand. These problems have been around for centuries and have grown steadily.

I agree with talaniman these problems have been around for many years !

After all the claim is "prostitution oldest profession in the world"

Regards jails, it seems that prison time in this day and age does not stop people from going out and committing crime as fact shows that there are more repeat offenders ! If there is too be a crack down on matters than it needs to be a hard line policy from the start to end.

There is little point in sending police officers out to arrest street walkers, when they would be better off going after the big fish.

A lot of prostitution where it is not legal, see's it being linked to drugs and gangs etc.

Prostitution oldest profession in the world

What about the cops who actually are involved in literally picking up prostitutes for themselves?

What about the cops who actually are involved in literally picking up prostitutes for themselves?

IMO they are not real cops if they are doing these things ! Cops in most parts of the world have taken an oath to Up Hold The Laws of the Land.

I have watched documentation about prostitution and how cops turn the other way because there have been undercover operations where they found that cops actually get involved in these rings. I agree, if they are partaking in this activity they do not deserve the badge but it does happen.

Joe

I think the bigger question is why are men so willing to pay for sex? If we weren't so willing to pay for it would they just go away?

Good point Talaniman, Could not comment. A lot of men are into dirty sex. Prostitutes are filthy. You are right in stating that maybe if men did not pay for those services maybe they would just go away.

So true if they where not making any $$$ then there would not be any around as they would be doing no business ! Jesushelper your spot on, too many people want to pay for dirty sex with filthy people.

EXACTLY

Wouldn't it be a bit contradictory for a government that claims in God it trusts to legalize things that the God it claims it trusts condemns?

I assume this refers to the USA?

I ask this, what about abortion? Or same sex marriage? Some states are in favour of that, and legalize that in the USA, but wouldn't that be “against god” as well?

For the record, I support all 3. Just trying to point out that perhaps it is not so much of a slippery slope.



I think the bigger question is why are men so willing to pay for sex? If we weren't so willing to pay for it would they just go away?

It would go away if no one was paying for it.

But the point is, there is a market for it out there.

Why do men do it?

A lot of reasons.

Not getting enough at home, don't have a girlfriend and want some sex, etc.

So who should go to jail?
The people who want it or
The people who provide it?

How about both?

Or how about none of them?

I guess it is a never ending question. There are so many different options on how to approach and deal with the problem.

I guess it is a never ending question. There are so many different options on how to approach and deal with the problem.

The approach of the last 2000 years has not worked!

So what do you think should be done to fix the problem. Capital punishment? Televised. Would that change the behaviour. Or is it better to put more investment into social programs for people and their families who are struggling to make it financially in this world and maybe they will not fall in that trap.

Now, that's a thought

I assume this refers to the USA?

I ask this, what about abortion? Or same sex marriage? Some states are in favour of that, and legalize that in the USA, but wouldn't that be “against god” as well?

For the record, I support all 3. Just trying to point out that perhaps it is not so much of a slippery slope.




If we say we trust we are either sincere or insincere.
There is no middle ground. Much better would be not to say anything at all.

Deuteronomy 23:23
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

If we say we trust we are either sincere or insincere.
There is no middle ground. Much better would be not to say anything at all.

Deuteronomy 23:23
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

Do not confuse the government line with individual opinion.One may not have anything to do with the other.

Huh? Please explain better starman?

Do not confuse the government line with individual opinion.One may not have anything to do with the other.



If the words are meaningless or irrelevant in terms of government policy which addresses public morality, why not respectfully delete them? Otherwise they come across as mockingly hypocritical. We consider persons, organizations, or nations who purport to follow other religious books untrustworthy hypocrites if they ignore the very words they prominently display or claim to adhere to. Why should we be any different? First we must remove the straw from our own eyes before we can qualify to criticize others be they either individuals o organizations, or nations who are religiously inconsistent in their public policies by encouraging activities which the god, gods, or God they officially claim to trust condemns.


Huh? Please explain better starman?

Why write a statement of that kind which is irrelevant to government policy?
Why risk the impression of being considered a nation of hypocrites? No I am not confusing public opinion with government policies or vis versa. I am simply saying that if the words are not to be taken seriously in reference to the moral issues that the God we claim to trust condemns then it's better not to place them prominently where they can be viewed as nothing more than an irrelevant utterance or a national twitch of sorts.

BTW
Nations are composed of individuals who either protest what they see or happily go right along with it. I don't see anyone taking umbrage with the inconsistency-do you?

Starman is right in one regard, we should delete whatever he thinks we need to delete(not quite sure what exactly you were referring to, but I gather it is something to do with some kind of religious text that somehow correlates to our government in some way or another). The separation of church and state is what need to be upheld, and is mostly the reason that legal cases get cloudy, because people bring up their religious believes in the judicial system and that shouldn't be allowed. If you live in this country than you accept the laws placed upon you and you should abide by them unless they somehow corrupt one of the admendments or free rights, you should not protest if they go against your religious belief, because after all it is your belief and therefore should not be heard in a court of law. I am referring also to the scopes-monkey trial, and other religious proceedings that have taken place over the years, samesex issues, because I honestly think that religion has no place in politics. But because religion is very important to people it will never go away and I understand that. I just wish it would. In the case of prostitution, again, legalizing it would not solve our problem, the bounds of prostituion will not stick to some red-light district in your downtown area, it will spread and again there will be a problem. I don't understand why everyone thinks it would be a good idea to legalize it. Again my example and it has been this entire time is LAS VEGAS. Honestly it is no place for families, it is even more no place for children. Supposedly parents have ENOUGH problems with the crap on MTV. Well MTV IS A FREAKING BARNEY COMPARED TO LAS VEGAS. And I am not talking about they bad places, they get worse, I am talking just walking the strip and seeing all the **** that goes on. You would have to be practically retarded to wish that upon your town. Legalizing prostitution will NOT work, it definitely will NOT stick to some part of town, and unless I can get an example of an American city where it is legalized and stayed in it's separate but equal corner I will refuse the idea of legalization of prostitution. In preidustrial communities prostitution or the exchange of wives is common, and with industrial communities prostitution hasn't always been illegal it was big during the 16th century, and their were licensed brothels, it then followed a decline were it became illegal because of the protestants and roman catholics, also because an outbreak of syphilis. As for prostitution in America it hasn't always been illegal either, before 1910 their was a white slave trade going on, where women were taken across the borders for immoral uses. All this stopped once the white slave trade act of 1910 banned it. I Agree that maybe this approach hasn't been working for too long, but definitely not thousands of years, it is time for a new approach but what I am not so certain.

wizzkid89/Starman-Prostitution is already in every city in America and the white slave trade still goes on to this day all over the world and yes its been with man since recorded history a couple of thousands of years Legalization would keep it in certain places and even force prostitutes to get health check ups. Taxing it would take a lot of the criminal element out of it and raise money for other things. I agree that religion should not be mixed with politics so the religious solution (JAIL) which hasn't worked ever, is not the solution either. And as this thread has shown there is a tremendous market for sex, and drugs. I am like you though, what the solution is I am a little uncertain. I just think legalisation would take it from criminals and put it in more reasonable hands where at least people would stop dying for it and maybe get help if they need it. Maybe a better way to spread the wealth in this country would go along way in keeping people off the streets and out of the quick fast money that can be made off human misery.

It is in every city, I never said it wasn't, but the legalization of it would make take it from the background to the forefront of the city, it would no longer be hidden underground but opened wide up for everyone to see and if you think that won't happen then you are crazy. I also never said that it hasn't been around for years, I just said that legality of it has been something that gone off and on throughout history. I also said in my earlier posts that it would be a boost to the economy BUT AT WHAT PRICE? For YOUR kids to be subject to material that not only should they not see but won't understand for years to come? Is that a price YOU are willing to pay? To have a city littered with porn? The legalization of it will only open up the floodgates for the issues of legalizing gambling and drugs. There once was a time this went on in the forefront of every community, and they put a stop to it, or at least made it disappear and go underground. There was a reason. That reason believe it or not still exists whether people choose to remember it. I do agree however that giving help to people who would become streetwalkers would benefit a lot more than jailing them. And hopefully there would be a way to provide that help to them.

With legalization comes regulation and all due respect its already out there for everyone to see. Out of site out of mind? Sounds like don't ask don't tell. Regulation would put it under control of zoning ordinaces with oversite at least. I think your scenario of it popping up everywhere is an over statement.

Look you support me with towns and what not and I will believe you. I have been to chicago, seattle, New York, l.a. I live near san fran, I have been to most large cities and a lot more handfuls and I haven't seen what you say is there. And honestly have you tally been to las vegas it's just an honest question, because if you haven't you will not know. It is not an overstatement, but rather very logical. We have cities that legalize such things, and the largest of which is what I am accurately describing. And it is shortsighted to think that it wouldn't happen anywhere else if the same legalization is followed. I honestly would love to have this discussion, with people who have seen it in reality. No disrespect to anyone, but it's frustrating when the majority of people are arguing for something they have never experienced.

Been there done that. And yes Vegas is really no place to take children. But my real peeve is that the high class call girl and white upper-class types get away with whatever and the only ones going to jail are those walking the streets that's not fair . The same with drugs. Street people don't have access to drugs unless somebody goes and gets them, who goes to jail and who makes money. I've seen enough human carnage to last a life time so if your frustrated, you can imagine how I feel. So back to the topic, why do high class white women making money and the low class minorities going to jail?
Every city has its drug and prostitution district and the only reason you'd be there is your looking to do business. The city fathers pad their arrest record by cracking down and hauling a lot of folks to jail and it looks good on paper.
However the places you will rarely see are the suburban drug and prostitute rings who operate with impunity catering to well connected clients with money. NOT fair!


No disrespect to anyone, but it's frustrating when the majority of people are arguing for something they have never experienced
You just don't know!

What is wrong with discussing morals, and society. What is wrong with discussing situations or experiances that a person might have or might have not experienced?
Is it me or is it the heat? Anybody here under an extreme heat and humid warning, It is like 110 FH maybe 40 degrees c.

Joe

Its 104 and rising at 3pm in Irving, Tx
Had to walk two blocks and darned near passed out, its been in the 100's since Wednesday with no relief in sight. 106 degrees is the danger threshold.
There can be no change in our lives unless we talk about it.

I just saw a movie Sunday about kids being kidnapped and sold and brought to the US as sex slaves. Third world families where selling there kids to buy food ,it was a eye opener and disgusted me to outrage at the way humans can treat other humans. That and the war in the middle east has got me more unglued and sorry folks if I let the frustration show. Sometimes I remember all the things I've seen and I just loose it for a bit.

No sorry is needed.

Frustration is a normal human emotion that we all experience in hot weather. Lol

Frustration is a normal human emotion that we all experience in hot weather. Lol

And not always just in HOT weather lol ;)


What is wrong with discussing morals, and society. What is wrong with discussing situations or experiances that a person might have or might have not experienced?

Nothing at all

Look I am not going to get mad at you tally, maybe because I live by the bay and I always have the air on. It's a good 76 degrees right now. So that whole thing about you just don't know, I am going to let it go. I was not arguing that the white upper class or the call girl should be left alone and that only the streetwalker should be arrested. I NEVER SAID THAT. I simply said that legalizing prostitution would only create a vegas like atmosphere around the whole city. And since you have been there, you can agree it's no place for growing families. I agree all prostitution needs to be stopped from the small fish to the big fish, and all the drug rings that go along with it. I never said to leave those guys alone. I have been arguing that legalizing prostitution in America will only descreate our good cities, or at least make the good parts transform into the already slums that these cities have. If it's legalized there is no reason it wouldn't spread and just eat the entire city. Anyway, that was all that I was arguing, not the fact that the lower class should get penalized and the upper class shouldn't.

As for the fact of discussing a situation in which you have not experienced, there is some times where it is wrong. For instance, in this very case, to not know the outcome of a fully legalized prostitution city(aka las vegas) you wouldn't be able to fully imagine what your city would succomb to. That is simply all I am saying, if you don't know what it's like it's hard to argue for something that you have never experienced, there is something wrong with that, but I don't really feel like arguing over that too. So if we could just stay on topic of legalizing prostitution, that would be great :)

76 degrees, invite me to lunch today!And that, you just don't know, post was about me, not you.
Now that that's over...

My idea for legalization has two purposes as I see it 1) To regulate the industry health wise and monitor the activity and keep the criminal element out 2) Make sure you can corral it through zoning ordinances so it would be out of site and out of mind. This would I think also restrict it from becoming a criminal zone as enforcement would be a lot easier especially if its monitored and participants registered.
Unlike Vegas which is the ultimate party town, and anything goes, our large cities would not have to open the whole town up just zone it to an appropriate setting.
I can understand how people feel and I myself would rather it be eliminated but that has and never will happen in my opinion so step must be made to control it and give some measure of safety. Right now as things stand you have a breeding ground for the worst of the worst kind of human animal. That must change.
If anyone would have other ideas either for elimination or control I got my ears on.

I agree that past solution has not worked, however only a small percentage of prostitutes actually spread std's, the largest percentage is teenagers. So there really is no need of regulating for health purposes. I also agree that it would take the criminal element out, only because it would no longer be illegal, but drugs would still be apart of it. However, as for the zoning ordinaces why do you think we could confine it to a zone, when we can't even stop it now? I don't think setting a boundary for it would work, it would definitely spill over, and there would be petitions for it to be legal in all parts of town. I honestly don't believe it would stick to one part of town. I do agree things need to change, but I do want to rule out legalization, as I think there are better alternative methods, but at this time I have no suggestions for one, but like you I too have my ears on.

Maybe a prison system that does more than just incarcerate inmates would be a way to go. Education, and training and counceling to prepare them to return to the real world and have a direction instead of falling back to old ways.

Then release them back to their old neighborhood and see how long it takes them to fall back into their old life style?

There are towns in Nevada that allow legal prostitution outside of their town. It has to be a certain distance from town and they do not effect the town. At least one knows where to go and men are less apt to proposition a woman on the street, therefore the women stay off the street. The women are protected from horrible things happening to them if they are in a brothel.


It is unfair to target LasVegas as an example of what would happen. Vegas is a gambling town, and that is all it is. When you have only gambling, you are going to have transits, lots of drugs, alcohol, prostitutes and just about any other evil thing you can think of. After all it is "Sin City".

I don't know that prostitution is winked at on one hand or condemned on the other. When you do something blatantly in public you are going to be more apt to suffer the consequences than if it goes on unnoticed behind closed doors. It takes time and search warrants etc. to raid an established business.

As I see it, as long as men are going to pay for it, women are always going to sell it. Whether it is legal or not, it is going to always go on. If it is legal, they would be more apt to stay in a certain area.

Whizzkid, If it is so awful in Vegas, why have you returned 5 times?:)

I have to admit, I have not read all of the answers on here, as that would take me a long time to do, but I will say, here in IL, we have a huge problem with prostitution places... They seem to pop up all of the time... They go under the name as Lingirie Parlors and Massage Parlors... but really they are places of prostitution... and EVERYONE knows it, including the police. It is wrong to allow these places to stay open in my opinion... they ruin lives... break up marriages... create addictions... ect... and most of the time the women in them are either illegal immigrants sold as sex slaves... or crack addicts feeding there addictions. Nobody working in these places chooses it as there choice career. Recently here in our city, they cracked down on like 5 Massage Parlors, and arrested and shut down all of them, finding out that most of the women working in these places were slaves from Korea sold to the owner in exchange to help them become citizens. It is not right to make these places legal, PERIOD. That is like saying... lets make rape legal... or lets make sexual assault legal.

I do however think, that just like other types of crimes... it will always be present... legal or not legal... but it should always be labeled what it is in this country... a crime. That's what it is, and a lot of men who buy this type of thing have addictions and problems... just like any other addiction. Sex is like Crack to some people. They don't care where they get it.

What happens in Vegas stays in vegas, I love it, but I would never raise a family there...

Cassie and Cgirl I agree with you in some areas. However, in concern to picking on vegas, I am going to stand by that. Look vegas is a large city, and in California, vegas is about the average size around the bay area and probably down there near l.a. If prostitution was legalized here in California, there is no room outside of our towns to make a brothel or what not like you say they do in other cities. I have traveled every which way in Nevada, and really Vegas and Reno are the biggest ones and they aren't that big. You can't compare these little 5,000 pop towns that have prostitution on the other side of the tracks with all the other towns in America. Because in most metropolitians, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, San Fran, L.A. there is no room put it on the outskirts of town, it would be put inside the of the town. And that is what I fear and that is why Las Vegas is such a good example because it encase the entire town which is exactly legalizing prostitution would do to all of these big cities. It would not stay in a confined zone or for that matter in the outskirts, if you make legal people would want it close and by them, at least some would, and that's where they would start breaking the rules.

As for sex is like crack, yeah a lot of people are addicted it to it, nechrophilicas is the term I believe, probably spelt it wrong. Anyway, it is horrible that these illegal immigrants house these brothels and ONLY MORE WOULD COME once it is legalized because let's face, the number of American women being prostitutes is declining, and brothels would prefer immigrants anyway because they are cheaper and can't just quit like other american women. And I see it all the time in San Francsico, all the asian women being sold into prostitution. San Francsico is I believe, number one in the country in that regard, of the asian sex slave trade. They come all the time on boats here and you can see them anytime you go through the city. And believe me I wish that would stop also, but the numbers would only grow if prostitution is illegal. That's why I agree with tally that there needs to be other ways to help these people and get them off the street. And not only the women but the men who pay for it.

Rehabilitation is a better way of getting the girls off the street... but there will probably always be prostitution unfortunately... it has been around for centuries

Even if you legalized it, there would always be those street walkers and other "independants" that work outside the regulated system.

Those under-age child runaways, homeless, drug addicts, and otherwise desperate-at-the-moment types would still be out there and there would still be those that would pay them.

This is an issue like drugs, some say if you were to legalize drugs it would take the big money away from the dealers, but it scares me to think of drugs being legal. I am not saying we should legalize prostitution, I was just stating a few thoughts about the NV laws. I am not sure if it were legalized there would be more or not. The same with drugs. It seems if anyone wants to find a hooker they have no problem no matter where they are.
Where it is not legal the "slaves" can not go to the authorities. If it were legal, would they anyway? Actually, I saw more hookers on the street in some places in LA and San Francisco than I saw on the streets in Las Vegas.
I was amazed late at night of all the guys as well as gals on the streets of San Francisco. I know being a female is different than being a male as far as being approached:) but it was so blatant in Frisco you knew what was going on.

What I mean about Las Vegas is that that is what that city is all about, entertainment of all kinds. It is almost a given that it would be so well advertised. IF (not saying I want it) it were legal in other places it would not be so out there.

These are just my thoughts, not an expert and wish all of these things that break up families were not around but unfortunately they are and it is hard to know the best way to deal with them. Some police officers turn their heads for various reasons, money, time, paperwork, burnout. I do wish I had the answers, I'd love to help.

You are so right

I know what your saying and your preaching to the choir I live like 15 minutes away from San Fran, I just went their Saturday night for a pearl Jam concert. Yeah it's bad, but to be far San Fran and L.A. have A lot MORE people so it would only be logical to reason they have more hookers. I am sure that if Las Vegas got more they would be if not the same amount but more. Yeah it is given that Las Vegas tells you what you should be expecting and rightfully exploits. My question to you is what makes you think that once prostitution is legalized what would stop them from marketing it like they do in Las Vegas? And yes being a female is a lot different. When I go to vegas I can get approached around 3 times a night, every night, since I was 15. Granted I have always been tall, which gives me an older appearance, but still they do ask, and it's common for males to turn it down, hopefully they do. I think cgirl has something going on with the idea of rehabilitation. I believe that would work a lot better than legalizing it. Also philly has a point that this business will still grow due to people in need of money. Now with that said, again I will state that I am not in favor of the way we are handling it now, but I will say that legalizing it would not help at all and only worsen our problem. If there was some kind of government system that could take these prostitutes off the street and teach them a real job or skill that they could use, I bet it would guarantee. However, I have read articles before on this subject and many people's opinions on the matter, and one underlying one is that the women wouldn't want to. They wouldn't want to work at restaurant or some place like that. They might chose prostitution because they are necrophilicas, or the fact that it's easy money. I mean think about what they do and how well they get paid for like 30 minutes of service, would they want to be a fry cooker? So not only do we have to change the minds of the men wanting this, and but we need to rehabilitate and adjust the prostitutes attitude on what they are doing, and how they are treating themselves like dirt. The reason that the government has done nothing, is simple, what can they do? Look how much we talk about if you go this way this what happen, and so on and so fourth, there is no clear cut deciscion. There is no right answer, and to rehabilitate would only make the economy suffer more, and I guarantee a large part of american's don't want to pay taxes to help hookers. This is largely why I think nothing will ever be done about it.

Necrophilicas-A fetish involving sex and dead bodies.

Until you try you don't know how something will turn out. Yes I do agree that no matter what some people will always chose to do that which is against the law for easy money. And men will always pay for it, as a convenient perverse way to get there rocks off. But to do nothing? You may as well legalize it and turn a blind eye or decriminalize it or throw everybody in jail and you still end up paying for it. My position is pick one and do it 100% or just leave them alone and do nothing! I think we have been half-stepping the problem anyway just like drugs and the homeless and every other problem. Just enough for show and get some politico to say I'm tough on it so re-elect me. Hey I got it! Tell them elected officials to solve the problem or get voted out. WE are paying them to work in our interest aren't we?

It does seem as though our legal system just skims the top, they do enough arrests to make it look like they are doing their jobs. It seems as though they do not have a handle on any crimes. Drugs are so out of hand, prisons are overflowing. In most prisons there is little to no rehabilitation.

I feel our politicians only have their interests in mind. As long as their pockets are full and they can live the lifestyle that keeps them away from the slums and it does effect them or their families, they are content. I attended a party once where there were some powerful people there, lots of politicians. After attending that function, I realized they are afraid to pass too many tight laws, because it could very well effect them and what they do.
So like everything else they do, they will make a big show of caring and once again really do nothing.

If our government would spend the money they waste on parties, prostitution etc on rehabilitation and education for the underpriviledged, our country could start to heal.

I am sorry I think I got off track here, but actually I am not, because as long as big government's policy is to open more prisons and no rehabilitation, it will just get worse. Prostitution is the least of the horrific crimes being made each day, I doubt they even think about it.

necrophilicas-A fetish involving sex and dead bodies.

Until you try you don't know how something will turn out. Yes I do agree that no matter what some people will always chose to do that which is against the law for easy money. And men will always pay for it, as a convenient perverse way to get there rocks off. But to do nothing?? You may as well legalize it and turn a blind eye or decriminalize it or throw everybody in jail and you still end up paying for it. My position is pick one and do it 100% or just leave em alone and do nothing! I think we have been half-stepping the problem anyway just like drugs and the homeless and every other problem. Just enough for show and get some politico to say I'm tough on it so re-elect me. Hey I got it! Tell them elected officals to solve the problem or get voted out. WE are paying them to work in our interest aren't we?

Goodness, I always have to spread it around... You are so right, Let's all sit outside in 100+ weather and then have a discussion with the politicians. :)

I know what your saying and your preaching to the choir I live like 15 minutes away from San Fran, I just went their Saturday night for a pearl Jam concert. Yeah it's bad, but to be far San Fran and L.A. have ALOT MORE people so it would only be logical to reason they have more hookers. I am sure that if Las Vegas got more they would be if not the same amount but more. Yeah it is given that Las Vegas tells you what you should be expecting and rightfully exploits. My question to you is what makes you think that once prostitution is legalized what would stop them from marketing it like they do in Las Vegas? And yes being a female is a lot different. When I go to vegas I can get approached around 3 times a night, every night, since I was 15. Granted I have always been tall, which gives me an older appearance, but still they do ask, and it's common for males to turn it down, hopefully they do. I think cgirl has something going on with the idea of rehabilitation. I believe that would work a lot better than legalizing it. Also philly has a point that this business will still grow due to people in need of money. Now with that said, again I will state that I am not in favor of the way we are handling it now, but I will say that legalizing it would not help at all and only worsen our problem. If there was some kind of government system that could take these prostitutes off the street and teach them a real job or skill that they could use, I bet it would guarantee. However, I have read articles before on this subject and many people's opinions on the matter, and one underlying one is that the women wouldn't want to. They wouldn't want to work at resturant or some place like that. They might chose prostitution because they are necrophilicas, or the fact that it's easy money. I mean think about what they do and how well they get paid for like 30 minutes of service, would they want to be a fry cooker? So not only do we have to change the minds of the men wanting this, and but we need to rehabilitate and adjust the prostitutes attitude on what they are doing, and how they are treating themselves like dirt. The reason that the government has done nothing, is simple, what can they do? Look how much we talk about if you go this way this what happen, and so on and so fourth, there is no clear cut deciscion. There is no right answer, and to rehabilitate would only make the economy suffer more, and I guarantee a large part of american's don't want to pay taxes to help hookers. This is largely why I think nothing will ever be done about it.

I don't think they would stop marketing it if it were legalized. The business minded ones would stay in their area. BUT if you look really look at prostitution, one must think why is it such a big business. I think even legalized there would be those that would stand on the street corner and some men that would only want that kind. There has to be some level of excitement about picking up a hooker on the corner or many would find a more reputable place where it is legal.

I totally agree!

I do think too, that the movie "Pretty Woman" gave prostitution a good name, like... "become a prostitute and meet rich men that will take you away and you will live happily ever after" and I do think that there are two or maybe three types of prostitutes... 15-17 year old girls who have run away from home and think this is the only way to make money... and then get caught up in the whole business, Drug addicts (crack prostitutes), and illegal immigrants working in massage/lingerie parlors. As far as rehabilitating these people, it would have to be approached in different ways, depending on the situation. I don't think there is one simple answer, just like the war on drugs, but I do think all of this business in Iraq is clouding the minds of our polititions and making them forget where the real problems lye. This is a real sore subject for me, because I live about an hour from Chicago, and you can't even walk down the street in Chicago without being pestered by either someone looking for money or vice versa (and this is in the Loop, which is the richer areas of Chicago, Imagine how bad it is in the poorer sections.) It just saddens me that America has turned a blind eye to these people and people think the only solution is to make it legal and profit from it. Come on, people, where are our morals?

I do think too, that the movie "Pretty Woman" gave prostitution a good name, like..."become a prostitute and meet rich men that will take you away and you will live happily ever after" and I do think that there are two or maybe three types of prostitutes...15-17 year old girls who have run away from home and think this is the only way to make money...and then get caught up in the whole business, Drug addicts (crack prostitutes), and illegal immigrants working in massage/lingerie parlors. As far as rehabilitating these people, it would have to be approached in different ways, depending on the situation. I don't think there is one simple answer, just like the war on drugs, but I do think all of this business in Iraq is clouding the minds of our polititions and making them forget where the real problems lye. This is a real sore subject for me, because I live about an hour from Chicago, and you can't even walk down the street in Chicago without being pestered by either someone looking for money or vice versa (and this is in the Loop, which is the richer areas of Chicago, Imagine how bad it is in the poorer sections.) It just saddens me that America has turned a blind eye to these people and people think the only solution is to make it legal and profit from it. Come on, people, where are our morals?

What are your solutions, show us YOUR morals.

I am not saying there is an immediate solution to the problem, I am simply stating that just laying down and letting it happen is what this country is CURRENTLY doing. I am saying that it seems that some people and polititions think money is more important then solving the problem. I know that everyone ON HERE is not that way, I didn't mean to sound condesending at all. It just burns me up the way this country has let morals flush down the toilet, greed is much more important. The rich are gettting richer and the poor are getting poorer... and maybe if that was changed, including a better educational system for ALL, then maybe there wouldn't be as much prostitution and drugs and gangs, etc. I was not trying to say anyone on here didn't have morals, I was just saying I don't think that making Prostitution legal is the solution. I guess I should choose my words more wisely. No harm intended.

The reason sex for money works is mainly because it is unlike any other sex in the world. Its similar to why Wizzkid goes to Vegas - although he is doing nothing illegal, it is a "what happens in Vegas stays is Vegas" kind of thing. Its also a bit like why there is so much sex at conventions -- paid for or otherwise - its all that "out of town" effect. It allows both participants to do things that would not occur otherwise. In one strange way its very freeing but at a huge price. Many of the providers are sexually dysfuntional and certainly often messed up. It travels well in the company of drug use. Also trading something other than money for sex has been going on all over the place for a long long time now and so hooking is often seen as just an extension of that. If you ask me how I know this, I will only say I have had more than my share of dark days. I speak in past tense with gratitude.

As long as sex in general is not well integrated into a culture, the sex-for-money appeal will continue. In the US, I have seen a culture emerge that is more comfortable with violence, prejudice, greed, crime and dishonesty than I do one comfortable with sex of any kind. This is one of those kinds of problems I like to think of as "feeder" problem - if we solved some of the bigger problems first, it would almost take care of itself since it feeds off the other ones. The two biggest ones it feeds off is the domestic violence/sexual abuse in our culture that spawns it and our high tolerance to crime in general.

We are a long way off from solving this one, in my view.

I see that though no solution has presented itself there are a lot of good ideas floating around.

I agree with tally in that even though there has yet to be a good solution to come around, we are figuring out exactly what we want to work towards and throwing up ideas and ways to possible get to it. And I know that valinor didn't say it, but just to make it clear, because it's kind of vague, I haven't done anything illegal in vegas. I know you didn't accuse me of anything, but I just want to throw that out there :). I agree with valinors that prostitution is not a one trick pony.
*Side note, thanks talaniman, I realized the word I was looking for was nympho maniac, not necrophiliac(I was definitely wayyyyyy off on that one)

I don't think however though that this has anything to do with intelligence, as the same number of high class business men that probably went to a good college practice prostitution if not more just as much as some high school dropout(because they can pay for it.) I also agree that it could be a "feeder" problem, because it definitely makes sense that domestic violence, sexual abuse, etc. has a large part to due with prostitution. I don't know however exactly how the high tolerance correlates, maybe you could explain that better, or maybe I am slow I just don't think how that translates to wanting to pick up a prostitute. Either way if it is a feeder problem, than how(now I am asking all of you) do you think we should stop the things that are feeding it.

It seems that we are not looking for one solution but many that lead to the same direction getting people to make healthier choices and it seems to start right their at home with the way children are brought up. Way off thread I know but it is related I think!

You have a point, but I am just curious to how you would accomplish this. Like would you sit your kids down tell about the birds and the bees than break it to them that prostitution is bad? Or would we give our kids little quizzes, such as a blond girl in hot pants walking down the street in front of the super eight at three in the morning.Do you:
a) Pick her up
b) Ask her if she needs a ride, then drive off
c) Ask for drugs
d) all of the above
e) Go home

In all honestly I agree with you it just seems that maybe you could put it in the school system, like they do with the d.a.r.e. program.

I was thinking along the lines of what Val wrote that domestic violence and sex abuse where keys to bad behavior later in life and its said that most prostitutes and runaways that get into the life are abused at a young age so they seek drugs as a way to cope.

Yeah I know tally, I was just messing with you...

I'm deep in thought and waiting on my first cup of coffee, Not a good combination at 5AM. And what are you doing out a 3am?? Does your wife know where you are?? :cool: :D

I'm a sucker for early east coast sports radio... lol

Eeek! My apologies Whizz - I have amended the post to reflect that too.

I'm trying to get a few things done before the grandkids get up and the heat sets in its already 85 degrees in Dallas and we'are looking for 105.

I am not saying there is an immediate solution to the problem, I am simply stating that just laying down and letting it happen is what this country is CURRENTLY doing. I am saying that it seems that some people and polititions think money is more important then solving the problem. I know that everyone ON HERE is not that way, I didn't mean to sound condesending at all. It just burns me up the way this country has let morals flush down the toilet, greed is much more important. The rich are gettting richer and the poor are getting poorer...and maybe if that was changed, including a better educational system for ALL, then maybe there wouldn't be as much prostitution and drugs and gangs, ect. I was not trying to say anyone on here didn't have morals, I was just saying I don't think that making Prostitution legal is the solution. I guess I should choose my words more wisely. No harm intended.

I'm agreeing with you on the educational system as I think what they teach kids today is junk, and your comment about the movie "Pretty Woman" was Right On and sent the wrong message. I also noticed the ideas pick-up on this thread when the ladies start making their thoughts known. HMMMMM probably just a coincidence.

Your are right, but add the $1,000 a night call girl for the rich.

I am certrainly not for legalizing prostitution, and I hope I have not come across that way. I am only making statements and putting some thoughts and issues out there. I am not for legalizing anything that is immoral and harmful to anyone.

I think in order for a woman to sell herself as a prostitute, she has to have some issues of low to no self esteem. She does not value herself as a person, will allow herself to be used and abused. She has had to get this feeling while growing up. She was either unloved, abused, or even taught by her mother to sell her body. At any rate she has no respect for herself.
There is the male who has no respect for a woman and will look for a hooker for his needs. He was not taught to respect a woman. Then we have the men who use women as hookers to make a living for them. Again, no respect for each other or themselves. How do we solve that problem, how would you incorporate that in the schools? Those are issued that really need to start at home. I wish there would be a class in loving yourself, loving others, respect yourself and others. It is difficult for children that are not loved at home. They make up their own rules and get by as best they can. They learn to use others and some allow themselves to be used. Then they get into drugs. If they need drug money they turn to theft, prostitution, anything to get that next fix. Then there are the true sickies out there. Then the rich, remember the Hollywood scandel... Heidi Fli(can't remember the spelling) Anyway, I pray there is a solution for all of this.

I know what you mean about the heat, even though my house is airconditioned thank god, but I work out, and my equipment is at my house, and without really thinking I set it up outside. IN THE SUN. I can't use it now, because if I touch it, it's pure metal, it's scolding hot, so I am pretty pissed I can't really work out till late in the day which is throwing off everything I do, but hey what you going to do. The East Bay isn't as bad as dallas, we do usually hit tripple digits every day but there is no humidity, and I know the indian summer you are talking about because I use to live in the midwest, and the humidity blew. It just feels like you are in a sauna. The worst I ever had it though, was I was flying into chicago, and it had been pouring all night, like the streets were flooded, but it was during the summer and it was about 95 degrees out a night! It was like walking into a steam room.

Anyway, I was going to leave cassie some rep, can't do it though got's to spread it around to some peoples apparently, either way I agree with everything you said. And I think there should be classes on respecting and loving, and slowly schools are starting that because I have seen it in the last few schools I attended. They are these little 20 minute classes either before school or after and they talk about personal stuff with everyone and teach respect, it's pretty cool. South dakota has been doing it for years, it's called homeroom, and now the East Bay out here in California is trying to get that to come around. Either way I fully endorse a home room, because it is solely focused on the needs of children and their lifes outside of school and I feel the educational system has been missing that for a long time.

As for the east coast sports radio, I do actually stay up for it, it's called Mike and Mike in the morning... if you know anything about that it's on espn for like an hour, it's techincally radio but it's gets like taped on TV for about an hour, and I like to watch it, because I don't usually listen to sports radio, I usually rock out when I have the radio on so I don't get time to listen, anyway it's fun to watch.

This is one big 'A' problem and as hard as my brain has worked ,or not worked, I see no quick fix. Its been going on so long that is a complicated monster with a life of its own, so the only solution that I can figure out is to get a whole lot of people (millions) to raise hell with the politicians to make some long term changes and in the meantime (as I look at my grand son and daughter) make sure MINE don't fall through the cracks in this society.

I agree with you that it will take a lot of time and manpower, but you have to start somewhere, and yes definitely teach our kids that it is not right, because they are our future.

You got that right

Teach the children and help reclaim the adults who are lost. We cannot afford any more "them versus us" mentality. We are clearly all in this together, as I see it. At the risk of sounding like a 60's song: its going to take a lot of love.

Teach the children and help reclaim the adults who are lost. We cannot afford any more "them versus us" mentality. We are clearly all in this together, as I see it. At the risk of sounding like a 60's song: its gonna take a lot of love.

I agree fully with you! All We Need Is Love. . :)

All we need is a lot of love

Children are our future so true we need to teach them well

I am so glad to hear they are having classes in school. I believe we have got to get a grip on this generation.

I think in order for a woman to sell herself as a prostitute, she has to have some issues of low to no self esteem. She does not value herself as a person, will allow herself to be used and abused. She has had to get this feeling while growing up. She was either unloved, abused, or even taught by her mother to sell her body. At any rate she has no respect for herself.

There is the male who has no respect for a woman and will look for a hooker for his needs. He was not taught to respect a woman.

WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn't respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven't ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don't think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn’t respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn’t be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven’t ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don’t think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

I would agree when the choice is made freely, but between abuse and drugs I hardly think you could call it free choice more like a desperate act of hopeless survival and that's what changes it from a victimless crime to a tragedy. When all your efforts are to lie cheat and steal to feed a habit, that's demeaning. Why should we as men care what hookers go through since all we want is to trade a few bucks to get our rocks off and adios, no harm no foul. Next!

There are definitely "low end" and "high end" women working as prostitutes.

Once again... drawing back on experiences from my youth... I can tell you that there are plenty of women who willingly choose the work simply because the money is excellent. They have standards as to who they accept as clients, have limits on what they are willing to do, and are otherwise very "normal" - with the exception of their "exotic" job.

That kind of business like approach is a complete turn around from the desperation we have focused on.

WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn't respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven't ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don't think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

You have a right to disagree. My points are valid for a lot of prostitues, and the men looking for one. I guess it came across as ALL prostitues and all men looking for one have issues. I did not mean it that way. I know people that sex means nothing to them. Everyone has different views and morals. Thanks for your input.
In my life, sex has always meant something, therefore I have a completely different view of it.

Good point. With prostitution and drugs is one thing, but when women make conscious choices is another?Ǫ

Yes, people do view sex differently. Thanks for clarifying!

Good points

In thinking about this post a little more I've come to the conclusion that no matter what laws or morality say their will be those that will choose to do whatever they want regardless of what is appropriate or not. We all make our own choices and have to live with the consequences of that choice. TRUE, some can be helped and we should want to give help to those that want it. Those that do not, so be it, their choice not mine. In the end as caring humans we can only do the best we can with what we have, so where as I can have compassion for others misfortune I am not responsible for the choices people make. That is up to them as individuals what they want to do with their lives, as well it should be.

Very good point ! Some people will always want to be outside the BOX

In thinking about this post a little more I've come to the conclusion that no matter what laws or morality say their will be those that will choose to do whatever they want regardless of what is appropriate or not.


Very good point Talaniman ! Some people will always want to be outside the BOX regardless of the effects.

Your thoughts are right on

I agree with you talaniman, I do everyword you said, and that's why I am convinced that like the problems with drugs and what not, the only solution that would yield the most productive results would be education and rehabilitation. Because like you said, there will be people who live to go against the grain, they want to be unlike everyone else and will pursue certain interests to make that happen, so whether it is legal or illegal those people will exist and those you cannot help.

I agree with both of you talaniman and whizz kid. There will always be those that feel there is nothing wrong with an addiction and do not want help. There will always be those who feel sex means nothing. The female may as well sell it to make a living and the male who feels that way will pay. I do not know that it is so much as to go against the grain. I think they feel it is their life and sex has no meaning to them. In my thoughts there is something missing in the lives of people that feel that way, but it is free love to them. (well actually, paid love). Someone I worked with left her husband because he visited the "houses" and she found out. He could not understand why she was upset, he said it meant nothing to him. It meant everything to her. So there you have it.

Your right free will for all

At the risk of sounding judegemental which is really not my intention as I have no leg to stand on for that here -- there are some things I don't think a human can do without having been previosuly "damaged" in some way. And this may be one of them. I don't think that meaningless sex is just a difference in value systems. I think the majority of reseach in the field has determined that sex is very much meant to be an extension of our affection (that's the psychology of it) and a means to procreate (that's the biology of it) both. Granted there is a big range out there for all of us to fall on one side or the other BUT for it to be reduced to just an appetitual thing is by no means the norm for humans (although men will more frequently claim this than women in my culture).

From what I saw in all kinds of women who sold sex, mostly its affected by something else, something that is getting in the way of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. The image of the "Pretty Woman" is pretty much Hollywood fanatasy. And I would bet those shrewed business women/call girls mentioned here would not hold up under closer scrutiny as being as balanced as they appear.

This is not just another means of making money since it comes with some other fairly "heavy" stuff, like it or not -- risk of the law, risk of societal condemnation, risk of disease despite how careful you are, risk of being ripped off, risk of abuse and violence, even risk of self loathing in that you could wake up one day in immense regret, all this even in the best of circles. So it behooves to ask why would any woman risk all that. I think you'll find it's a complicated answer at best.

I know I am running dangerously close to soundling like I suggesting that lack of morals is an illness of some sort and that isn't what I am implying. But people do damage far easier than we realise and that has its effect, some of which I can directly attribute to feeding prostitution, high society or low.

I totally agree with you Val

At the risk of sounding judegemental which is really not my intention as I have no leg to stand on for that here -- there are some things I don't think a human can do without having been previosuly "damaged" in some way. And this may be one of them. I don't think that meaningless sex is just a difference in value systems. I think the majority of reseach in the field has determined that sex is very much meant to be an extension of our affection (that's the psychology of it) and a means to procreate (that's the biology of it) both. Granted there is a big range out there for all of us to fall on one side or the other BUT for it to be reduced to just an appetitual thing is by no means the norm for humans (although men will more frequently claim this than women in my culture).

From what I saw in all kinds of women who sold sex, mostly its the effect of something else getting in the way of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. The image of the "Pretty Woman" is pretty much Hollywood fanatasy. And I would bet those shrewed business women/call girls mentioned here would not hold up under closer scrutiny as being as balanced as they appear.

This is not just another means of making money since it comes with some other stuff, like it or not -- risk of the law, risk of moral condemnation, risk of disease dispite how careful you are, risk of abuse and violence, even risk of self approval in that you could wake up one day in immense regret, even in the best of circles. So it behooves to ask why would any woman risk all that. I think you'll find its a complicated answer at best.

I know I am running dangerously close to soundling like I suggesting that lack of morals is an illness of some sort and that isn't what I am implying. But people do damage far easier than we realise and that has its effect, some of which I can directly attribute to feeding prostitution, high society or low.

I agree with you Val, but read Captain Forest answer to my post. There are those that think it is morally right for them.

I agree with you Val, but read Captain Forest answer to my post. There are those that think it is morally right for them.
I did Cassie and what I just posted was as much in response to some of what he posted as it was others-- just so's you know! ;)

At the risk of going very off topic here, sex with no meaning is really another form of masturbation and one would wonder why the need to have someone else do that for you and pay for it too when you can so easily do that yourself? Its not just out of boredom, trust me. I think I saw a lot more going on there than that... is all I am saying.

... sex with no meaning is really another form of masterbation and one would wonder why the need to have someone else do that for you and pay for it too when you can so easily do that yourself?
A person who view's sex as sport or as a fantasy of their own mind would probably say that the ability to drown in their own self-indulgence with a prostitute makes it worthwhile. No need to worry about pleasing a partner - and the variety coupled with the danger makes it even more exciting.

I think most men - myself included - have a certain duality: We want meaningful sexual relationships that share ourselves with the woman that we love, but we also want the nasty, dirty, quick, meaningless sex that any willing woman can fulfill.

When you are in a committed relationship - you try to have both roles fulfilled by your partner.

Someone that has no relationship, or one where they care more about themselves and "their needs" over their partner's feelings, you have a person that strays off to the "willing woman" - prostitute or otherwise.

I agree with you philly, a lot of about what you said, right now I think we are kind of veering of the course of whether prostitution should be legal, to the different views on sex between men and women. And this was a big discussion in the psychology course I took, men have a different view like philly was explaining. Sex has a tendency to be more of a release with men than women, not saying it isn't a release for women, just it's more for men in my opinion. I mean take a look at teenage boys/girls. I happen to be one of them, men think about a more a day then do women, and also sex isn't viewed the same way. Men need a release, like a tension release, and they just need that physical contact. A lot of the time they don't care what women it is, they just need them to be there. I am not saying men don't want a relationship were sex is more affectionate and there is a connection, but there is times when they just need sex. Like women do. However, I think they/we need it more often, again I am talking about the release. I think that has everything to do with the heighten amount of testosterone in males, and that's why the just need to well DO IT. I think that is why sex is viewed differently. Because on one hand, men view as a release, where it just needs to be done, but also like a connection between two people. But the percentages vary, and that's where you get different views within the male society. I also believe women see it the same way, but their percentages learn more toward connection, then does the average male. Of course there are always anomalies, however I believe that the difference in men and women, psychologically and biologically explain the different views on sex.

Maybe we need to start a new thread?

LOL! So many tangents - I love it! :)

Here in Europe, prostitution has been legal, where the prostitutes pay taxes, get medical examinations, and have health insurance. They are even starting up a 'retirement plan'.

I'm sure that all the US soldiers who were stationed in Europe are aware of this and they surely did not find it a 'disgrace' while being stationed here.

Europe is also a very Christian community, so much so that on most religious holidays everything is closed. There is even a 'Christian democratic union' in Germany - so how much more 'Christian' can one get.

There are several red light districts in Europe and it is the oldest profession in the world. I think the puritanic attitude is way out of place no matter where you live in the United States. We all know that sex happens, clean, perverted, or experimental and criminal - it's a fact of life.

So, please no more false 'shame, shame/tsk, tsk' Lets face reality.

The difference between a call girl and a poor 'slut' is that one gets paid - but they both get passed around a lot - but one gets medically checked and less likely to pass around diseases. Which would you rather have in your community? They both could be a relative - you never know.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm801YYDE)

Just my opinion - but it would give law enforcement time to seek out real criminals, if it ever got legalized.

I understand that europe has a different view on it, then most of the u.s. which can be seen with legalization of it in europe. I just think right now, that for american's it's a taboo subject. Like drugs. The majority just doesn't want to face it. Also, it's hard because America has so many more people, than one european country. And there attitudes are very diverse depending on where you go in this country. I mean the midwest and biblebelt will be most likey not to want to make it legal. I think it's one of those topics the government wants to steer clear from right now, because we already have a war going as well as a war on drugs. There plate is pretty full, and I don't blame them for trying to shove this in the closet, and wait for a better time to tackle it.

Thank you Chery that was very insightful

Not to mention the profitability of the prison system, so much so they have mostly been privatized and they plan to build more. I also question the waiting for a better time. This is America and its always about the money.

I undersand what you are saying though talaniman, but I mean honestly this wouldn't be your first pick on the time to actually to start and change the prostitution problem.

You are right, with all that is going on in the Middle East. That keeps the big politicians going. The drug problems are way out of hand. Meth is an epidemic. When elections are coming up, the gay activists are out there wanting to get married and adopt children. Then abortion is a big issue all of the time. The price of gas is outrageous with threats of higher prices. The prisons are overflowing with drug offenders. They are turning some of them over to private enterprise (scarey when that happens, that only means big business). And Hilary Clinton wants to run for president!! Now, who is left to worry about prostitution?? Politicians are just glad they are not on the welfare line or to legalize it so they can get subsidized.:)

Gee whizz (no pun intended) I am a radical from the 60's worked and made babies in the 70's Don't remember the 80's Got it together in the 90's and here we are faced with a lot of decisions on how to precede in the new century. Sorry folks no time is a good time but those politicians can do the same thing I had to do- earn their money. None of this happened overnight but to shove it in the closet??

I am not saying that I necessarily want to shove it into the closet, but I am positive that the main focus of America will not be on legalizing prostitution at this time, and that at this time, with the war going on and other things, that the care/attention that it deserves from the american public will not be there.

Straight up honest debate is needed though

At the risk of sounding judegemental which is really not my intention as I have no leg to stand on for that here -- there are some things I don't think a human can do without having been previosuly "damaged" in some way. And this may be one of them. I don't think that meaningless sex is just a difference in value systems. I think the majority of reseach in the field has determined that sex is very much meant to be an extension of our affection (that's the psychology of it) and a means to procreate (that's the biology of it) both. Granted there is a big range out there for all of us to fall on one side or the other BUT for it to be reduced to just an appetitual thing is by no means the norm for humans (although men will more frequently claim this than women in my culture).

From what I saw in all kinds of women who sold sex, mostly its affected by something else, something that is getting in the way of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. The image of the "Pretty Woman" is pretty much Hollywood fanatasy. And I would bet those shrewed business women/call girls mentioned here would not hold up under closer scrutiny as being as balanced as they appear.

This is not just another means of making money since it comes with some other fairly "heavy" stuff, like it or not -- risk of the law, risk of societal condemnation, risk of disease dispite how careful you are, risk of being ripped off, risk of abuse and violence, even risk of self loathing in that you could wake up one day in immense regret, all this even in the best of circles. So it behooves to ask why would any woman risk all that. I think you'll find its a complicated answer at best.

I know I am running dangerously close to soundling like I suggesting that lack of morals is an illness of some sort and that isn't what I am implying. But people do damage far easier than we realise and that has its effect, some of which I can directly attribute to feeding prostitution, high society or low.

Allow me to jump in here ;)

I'm one of those "shrewed business women/call girls". I will certainly agree that my line of work has changed me, but I don't necessarily believe it's for the worse. Anything has the potential to damage a person- relationships are a prime example. But what matters in such a case is how strong the person is, and whether they learn from the experience or whether they become ridden with guilt, heartache, regret etc. Personally, I do not regret my decision, and really I don't regret any other decision I've made in my past, even before I began doing what I do. Life is one big learning experience, and this is just another path that a person can choose to make.

Such A Small World...