Would you like to cut off welfare progrms? Why?
How would you go about doing this?

There will always be poor, needy and less fortunate.
I do not think it should be cut but restructured so that not everybody is eligible just because they have a baby or because they are lazy.
One thing is teens need to be taught differently about sex ed so they are not thinking it is okay to just go around having sex and ending up pregnant then get on welfare. Where I live it is like a dog breeding factory for the past 10 yrs. Like this guy came here from down South. He is homeless so he sleeps with three different girls every night (Remember playing musical chairs? Now they play musical beds.)
The one just had a baby to another guy and is pregnant to another guy and now she is sleeping with this guy.
He doesn't keep it a secret that he has gf's in three different states.

[B]From boat21 and creekpeople welfare or not!! Explain this to us. To get a job at a Corporation you have to get drug tested. To get a job at a hospital, same thing. Working for the government, ditto. So explain why a Welfare recipient can get a paycheck from the government and not have to take a drug test!! Welfare, yes with a drug test. Welfare NO without one. Boat21 was going to ask on a thread why the government doesn't randomly test welfare recipients and yet most government employees have to get tested. That should be the answer to welfare yes... or no.

I would like to see either required government work programs, picking up trash at the park, cleaning fire trucks, anything, or training programs that they to actually go to before they will earn any welfare money.

And agreed, they must pass a drug test each month or week, since if they have money for drugs they don't need welfare

Some of the problem with putting the welfare recipient to work would be 'How do they get there?'

Public transportation is all good if your in a city environment,but what about those who are 10,15,or 20 miles out in the country?

The welfare system was brought to bare when?

And back then what were the criteria for receiving it?

WHO made the changes since then,ratifying the system till it got to the state it's in today?

I suspect those answers will be forthcoming from the political members who have the research and debating skills I sadly lack.

Good topic.

Welfare can not be cut but there should be more restrictions applied. They could be asked to work/volunteer for their money. This could 'break' the Welfare chain in families. They could gain more respect for themselves by being 'useful', accomplishing something, anything. There should be a cap on the number of children, sans fathers, that each person collects. This requirement would also profit the children as fewer would receive more attention from 'Mom'.

Something needs to be done because while welfare is a necessity for some too many abuse it
Today on the radio they were talking about a 29 yr old woman that has 9 kids and wants to be given a van. Then where is she going to get the money for insurance. She already gets charities to support her besides her welfare. She doesn't collect child support and who's to say she doesn't have more kids?

How welfare effects your taxes! The state of Delaware has NO NO sales tax because its not a welfare state that way. And no its not Dupont that suck it up to offset taxes. Even my property tax is cheap! Hear is another Major FLAW!! In the system. I found out from a police officer he arrested a person that had 3 welfare check stubs in his wallet! 1 N.Y, 2 N.J. 3 Pa. He called N.Y. welfare office and they said they can't do anything about that now times that by how many!! But yet the I.R.S will bust my chops of my business on audit and my taxes are way out of control. We cloud literally save 100s of millions If we check for fraud and how hard is that with a tied in computer system. We could pay off that system probably the first year or so on how much it will save the government. Lets clarfie that the "Goverment" Dha How much it will save the "people" police fraud on welfare recipients.
Too much of welfare has also become come a supplemental income for the drug dealers to get a check until the get paid for there deals they need to collect.
Signed I am mad money out of my families mouth to a thief's!!!!!!
P.S. It might cost more to jail them get this I looked up costs to jail a person for a year over $90,000.00 a year!!!! per person!

I think now with all the corp. bailouts and all the welfare recips. Are going to be a drop in the bucket. We ain't seen nothing yet!

I agree that any welfare recipents should be drug tested.

Now, I live in a section 8 kind of area. I'm not a section 8 guy, I pay all my bills and get no assistance, I just happen to live in "that side of town". And I see how the welfare class is, first hand, and my thought on welfare is it is a complete and total WASTE of tax payer money.

I would allow welfare for children only, as they can not be expected to fend for theirself. Of course, the parents would be the stewards of the money, but they had better do a darn good job of taking care of the kids. They need to at least TRY to work. I think it should be like unemployment, where you have to put in so many applications per week to keep the benifet.

After so long of a time, the parent still doesn't get a job, then other measures need to be taken, it's time for social services to step in, because I believe the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, if the kid isn't placed in a "working family" environment, then we will breed a whole new generation of welfare moochers.

Girls that get knocked up:
Easy. Welfare is granted under the terms above, under the condition that the woman gets her tubes tied. The father of the child pays for the procedure. (not tax payers) the father of the child can avoid this if he agrees to have himself "snipped" as well.

As far as general welfare when no kids are involved. No kids, no welfare, get a job or stave.

And don't tell me there are no jobs. There is always a job to do, somewhere. It might not be a gravy job, or a high paying job, but a job is a job. Be it flipping burgers or digging ditches.

Personally, I respect the ditch digger and the casheir FAAAAR more than I respect the CEO's that are on Wallstreet.

BTW I don't mind anyone getting some assistance if they are at least working 30-40 hours per week... or doing the best they can do.

But this thing of people sitting on their lazy butt and collecting off me every month is for the birds.

Pardon me if these comments offended, frankly, I don't care, looking at my last paystub, I have paid over $6,000 in taxes this year, plus $6,000 in insurance premiums for MY FAMILY. Plus I have to deal with the annoyances of the "welfare class" in my neighborhood every day. Welfare? I'd be better off without it, and I can think of a few better things I could have done with that six grand.

Every dollar of welfare creates 1.50 of economic activity, so the "economic drain" argument doesn't fly. We're all better off if people who aren't working get welfare; it actually helps the economy. There are a huge number of people on welfare because they have serious medical problems that prevent them from working (many of them would love to work, by the way, since welfare doesn't afford them a particularly lofty standard of living). And while it's true that there are people on welfare because they are lazy, I'm not sure that starvation is an appropriate punishment for the vice of laziness. At the rate at which our economy is bleeding jobs, this is the worst possible time to cut welfare programs.

I agree that far too many people abuse the welfare system, especially too many taking advantage selling their food stamps for drugs.
BUT I do not agree that anybody can find a job.
I was married and had 4 kids THEN things didn't work and I ended up divorced. NOBODY would watch my kids. Children's Services couldn't even find anybody willing to watch them so I HAD to stay home with them and there was NO way I could work.
Then when they were in their teens. I got a job that was mostly during school hours. Children's Services said I had to quit because I was not home for them right after school. They said they were classified as 'special needs' so I couldn't do as other parents did. So I quit.
Then when they were older I tried to find work. I applied hundreds of jobs for 3 months and didn't get anything. My daughter applied many of the same places only kept the jobs a few weeks and quit. Within 5 months she worked at Kentucky fried Chicken, McDonalds, Burger King and some other places.
I really believe they hired her because of age. They told me I didn't have any experience whenever I had on my resume that I did work a bunch of restaurants in the '70's and she had never worked anywhere before.
Also you would be very surprised if you sat in the welfare office nowadays. SOOOO many of the people applying are very middle class looking office worker types in their early 50's that got laid off and can't get a job most likely because of their age.

Also you figure, if you shut down the welfare system how many jobs that is going to affect. The welfare workers --out a job.
Maybe they could go get a job at the day care centers to watch the welfare parents kids that would be working?

I really do not believe there are enough jobs no matter how little you are willing to work for an hour.

The bailouts to large corps are a bigger threat. They said all the bailout money so far exceeds all the money that we have spent on WW! WW!! Korean war, Vietnam war, Desert storm and this Iraqi war combined.

Hello:

I agree. Before we give any more CORPORATE welfare, the CEO'S should be drug tested.

POOR people, on the other hand, should receive help because they're POOR - NOT because they're wonderful people.

Should the help you receive, (like a deduction on your interest) be based upon how wonderful YOU are?? WHAT?? Deducting your interest isn't welfare to you because you own a house and I don't?? ). Oh, I understand. A deduction ISN'T welfare - it's the law. I got it now.

But, of course, any time the government opens up the cash window, the GOOD guys are going to call what THEY get something dignified, like "bailout", or "tax credit", or "subsidy"... But, the money the POOR receive is called welfare...

And, you people buy into this crap.

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

I also haven't mentioned that many people can not get jobs because of transportation issues. Some are homeless with no phone and no way for someone to contact them for an interview.
In fact, some homeless wouldn't even have a way to get a shower and a clean change of clothes for an interview.
Many have mental illnesses and would be unable to follow up responsibly to get and keep work.
Many it is of their own doing but the fact is that is where they are now and not much can reverse their bad mistakes especially when they can't even see they have a problem.

It would be great if somebody could follow lives of people on welfare to deem if they are truly in need of welfare or if they are just playing the system for all they can get. But I don't see that happening. Kids make mistakes and have a bunch of kids by the time they are 21. As I said earlier what should be done about that? It is the system failing these kids to make them glorify kids having kids. The sex education needs to take a different approach to deter kids from wanting kids. I see it all the time 14 and 15 yr old girls idealizing having a baby and then they get bored with it and pass the baby onto their mom. Their mom (grandma) can't afford to feed another mouth and makes daughter go get on welfare. Dad is off the hook because she didn't want to make him pay child support so she put Father: unknown on birth certificate. Now it is the taxpayers problem.
The taxpayer is paying hundreds of dollars per day for each student to get a faulty sex education. Then the taxpayer is paying into the welfare system to pay for the student to feed the baby. Then some moms sell the food stamps to pay for drugs and beg the neighbors to feed their child.

So you're trying to tell me, that everyone should be on welfare? (Akoue), I'm not going to put a "red box" on your profile, because this is a political debate and I just don't think it proper on a self help website, but I do, "dissagree".

If EVERYONE was on welfare, what tax dollars would fund the system? If I were on welfare, the government would be almost $12,000 poorer.

No, I take that back, since I pay for my own insurance, if I were on welfare, and the government paid for my insurance, as well as the cost of the actual insurance (what they cover), then given the surgeries my wife had, we would have probably cost the system $50,000 this year. In addition to what they would have paid me.

Now, I understand the problem with this countries finanical system, to many people not working, and drawing welfare, and too few paying into the system.

Out of the $4,000 I paid the federal government this year... what did I get for that money? Nothing.

And FYI - I dissagree with the whole economic stimulous plan! Granted, they send me another check, I'm going to cash it, but I would have been just find had they have not. The government can not afford it, and I really don't need it.

Child tax credit?
Please, any money I get back from the federal government, I have to turn around and pay the state with it. There might be $400 or so left over. Hardly enough to offset the expenses of having a child.

At one time, I would have agreed with you all, I would had a kind heart.

Not any more, not after I made the mistake of moving into this neighborhood without researching the surrounding homes first. Not after living 5 years in this welfare abundant, unemployed town. I see the level of disrespect these unemployed people dish out daily. Drugs, fussing, cussing, partying all night. And why not? Do they have to work the next day? Hardley. Running a fan all night drowns out much of the noise, but does little to drown out the occasional thumping car that drives by at 3AM.

Now DISSABILITY is a whole different subject. Of course, if you are disabled, then I have no problem with someone drawing social security, same goes for retirement.

That is a separate (in theory) fund that everyone who has worked has paid into while they were working. If someone wins a dissability claim, then they will receive no grief from me. I do think it's assinine that you could amputed ams and legs, blind as a bat, can not hear, or speak, and you still have to hire a lawyer to win a case.

I respect your thoughts and opinions, but I do dissagree with them.

But in reality, it really makes no difference, welfare ain't going nowhere... Perhaps someday I will cross the financial threshold and be able to afford the high taxes I have to pay as well as a nicer place to live away with this wannabe ghetto. I could have afforded it a long time ago, two years of taxes paid would have made a nice downpayment.

Anyway, to put it simpler, as I said before, welfare for children only. All others fend for theirself.

Oh, and by the way, Nohelp4u. I consider staying at home and raising a family a full time job. I understand the difficulties of finding affordable daycare and a job that can pay for it. Our family is having this same problem.

But all the same, we are still not on assistance. My hands bring the food to the table and keep the lights on. And that's not because I landed a good job. Sure it helps, but we have been poor before. When my wife won custody of her child, I was bringing home about $13,000 per year. The only assistance we had, was her child was on Medicaid. (as I said, for children only)

Impossible to do without welfare? Well, consider we we lived a simple life, we don't drink, smoke or do drugs. I drove to work in a beat up nissan sentra that I got for $300. When the furnace blew up, we heated on kerosene heaters. We took a calculator to the grocery store, we didn't buy snack cakes and junk food, we purchased beans, rice, simple foods, breads, flour, I grew a garden. We didn't have to have all the newest things. This was only 5 years ago, we didn't have a DVD player, game console. Our TV was purchased at a thift store and still had dails, two channels didn't work. There were times we just coulnt make the ends meet. I would do odd jobs when I could, once in a while, literally worked for food. But we made it. And damn proud of it!

That is great that you are able to do that. I wish every mother was in your circumstances.

Welfare in and of itself is a program for needy families and it is a life saver for many people.

In a failing economy many people have found they must turn to food stamps and also help with paying their heating costs (HEAP)

The people who abuse the system are where the problem lies.


In New york there is a jobs program and if you want to be on public assistance you must work for it if you are physically able.If not you must have a statement from a doctor.

The problem of welfare is multi-faceted.

When we cut programs that help people to gain employment and cut head start programs for needy children we are leaving these people behind.We need to keep these programs open and thus end the cycle of dependency.

Yes the abusers are the problem.
With welfare reform you can only get so many years of cash asst.
If you and the dad live together they make one of you go out and work or they cut you off. They even will make some single moms go get jobs too. One lady had just had a baby, fresh out of the hospital and they were making her go to the classes before cutting you off. She had no way to get her kids to any daycare and then make it to a job. Yet the lazy abusers seem to never get 'sanctioned'. I think more people need to turn in the abusers but that doesn't seem to work either.

That is great that you are able to do that. I wish every mother was in your circumstances.


I'm not a mother, I'm the father. We are barley able to do that, money is still tight. Especially now that overtime is down. In fact, if you had read my introduction thread, you would have learned this is my second account here. I never really got into why I had left AMHD a few years back, but the simple truth is, we had to cut back, and the internet was the first to go.

But to be fair, when gas hit $5.00 per gallon last summer, and the cost of groceries doubled, I'm not sure how we would have done it if I were still at my old job.

artlady:

I'll concede my argument to cut all welfare... well I never actually said cut all welfare, I just said it be for children only. And also, in an earlier post, I also said I don't have any problem with someone who is working, (doing the best they can) getting a little help. What I Don't like is these people who wouldn't know an eight hour day if it landed on their shoes.

Simply put, I feel drug testing applicants would eliminate the abuse, and probably welfare cost by at least 75%.

Unemployment:
This is an insurance your employer pays for. If you are working, and get laid off, of course, draw unemployment. Some of these factories shut down on no notice at all. In fact, we had one here last summer, the workers came in one Friday without a clue, the plant manager handed them their last paycheck and sent them home. Locking the doors on his way out However, I'm not sure if this is nation wide, but here in VA, you have to apply for I think two jobs per week to retain the benifet, and even at that, it is only good for so many months. (I think 18 months, but I'm not sure)

If I got laid off, naturally, I'd file for unemployment, but if I know me, I'd have the job replaced in less than a month, even if it were't as high paying a job. It's just the way I am, I can't stand to "not do anything" for to long. I start to get real irrirable. In fact, I've been on vacation this week, using some old time I had to draw, and it's not even the weekend yet and I can't wait to get back to work. I'm climbing the walls over here.

If you can't find a job in 18 months, then I think the problem is the applicant.

Nohelp4u:
I didn't read your last post until after I had posted above. But I can live with the idea you presented.

You all seem like reasonable people. And I'm glad that no one is "flaring", as this tends to be a sore subject for some.

It's debates like this that tempers can easilly flare, especially if one of the debators is on welfare and defending their position.


But I think we can all agree, that the problem with the "abusers" is they hide behind the ones who are not abusing the system. Making them hard to target. Back when food stamps came on paper coupons and not a card, I've seen people sell their stamps for liquor. How is this helping their kids?

I do feel for the couple that is trying to make it. They are often making too much to get assistance but not enough to make it.
I wish I had had a husband/father it would have made it much easier for me emotionally.
My sister complained that she wished she could 'have it easy' like me yet between her and her husband they made $60, a year and bought their kids anything they wanted. I believe that no matter what your income you can budget to manage. Struggle yes but you can manage. I had 4 kids and with assistance only had around $10, to $15, a year. I feel we managed about as well as my sister even though my kids didn't have everything they had.
Too many people want all the latest most expensive things and don't buy second hand and manage their money well.
I don't have the internet or cable. I use my kids (they are grown and on their own now) internet and watch VCR tapes.
I bought a DVD for $30. But I never got around to buying many DVD's yet.
Being poor taught me to be resourceful and trade with other mothers... hand me down clothes, rummage sales, flea markets, yard sales, junk stores, working and trading for things,

I don't have a temper I just see things from many perspectives.
I have known wasteful rich people, rich people that work hard and help others, poor people that really don't desire most of what they have, poor people that were never given a chance that they do deserve, people that can't see past their nose, people that are too ignorant to see past their nose, etc...
I appreciate people that can see it isn't all black and white with no room to budge.

They still sell their food stamps with the card. Welfare claimed they were going to the card to cut down on abuse.
Now they just give the card to whoever and then call it in stolen if they don't give it back before the next month.
Or they go to the store with the person they sold the amount to. Like I said they sell the card and then cry for the neighbors to feed their poor starving kids.

I do feel for the couple that is trying to make it. They are often making too much to get assistance but not enough to make it.


This our problem to a tee. I've made good money this year, of course last summer I pulled quite a few 80 hour weeks. My last paystub reveals about $47,000. Or course, my net pay was only $26,000. Still we had a good year.

Why so low off almost 50 grand?

Because my wife, who has a mental dissability (and is on dissability for it) did not qualify for medicaid when she first one her case.

Why? Because at the time I made $12 per hour, and that was considered too much. So I had to put her on my plan at work, which came with a biweekly deduction of almost $240. (about $500 per month), and a $2,000 deductable to boot, 80% there after. She only makes about $600 per month on her dissability. So in effect, the family household was only advanced by $100 per month.

I don't want to list what I make now because this is a public forum, but I will say it's more than $12, and less than $20 per hour.

Now get this. Because I WORKED so many hours, I find out that she is pretty much going to have to pay taxes on her dissability. (which by the way, they do not withhold from)
So any child tax credit we would have gotten will be eaten up! As I said earlier, what little we do get from the federal, will go to pay the state income tax that we will owe.

In fact, I even told her last month she'd be better to just drop dissability, because last year, almost everything she made we used to pay for medical bills, what insurance didn't cover.

So again, I apologize if I offended some, but it seems, on my side of the fence, all they do to me is tax tax tax tax tax... and I look around, and see people living the good life for free! It bothers me, and I can't help but be a little biased.

This country is set up to reward laziness, and penalize working people. The simple fact is, if I QUIT my job, my wife and child would qualify for medicaid, and she could get SSI. It wouldn't match what I bring home, but it'd be a nice sizable income for me doing nothing.

Then I could just sit around and be a lazy sorry __sed man (the kind we were discussing earlier) who is just mooching off his wife.

Thank God I'm not like that, my daddy raised me better. I will continue to work, as long as my hands will let me. And the government will continue to give it to me up the ____, as long as they can.

How's this for a compromise?

Keep the welfare under the post you mentioned on the last page Nohelp4u, but make the rich (over $100k per year) pay for it.

And I get to keep some of that money they took from me on my pay.

In fact, let's just do away with the income tax all together. I'm all for the fair tax. But I'm starting to get off topic here, so I'll stop there.

But you have to admit, it would be a way to get rich people to pay taxes, as they buy the most "stuff".

Trust me if I were President of the USA it would be a lot different.
I heard Puerto Rico, or was it Costa Rico, has the best system.

So you're trying to tell me, that everyone should be on welfare? (Akoue), I'm not going to put a "red box" on your profile, because this is a political debate and I just don't think it proper on a self help website, but I do, "dissagree".

If EVERYONE was on welfare, what tax dollars would fund the system? If I were on welfare, the government would be almost $12,000 poorer.

No, I take that back, since I pay for my own insurance, if I were on welfare, and the government paid for my insurance, as well as the cost of the actual insurance (what they cover), then given the surgeries my wife had, we would have probably cost the system $50,000 this year. In addition to what they would have paid me.

Now, I understand the problem with this countries finanical system, to many people not working, and drawing welfare, and too few paying into the system.

Out of the $4,000 I paid the federal government this year... what did I get for that money? Nothing.

And FYI - I dissagree with the whole economic stimulous plan! Granted, they send me another check, I'm going to cash it, but I would have been just find had they have not. The government can not afford it, and I really don't need it.

Child tax credit?
Please, any money I get back from the federal government, I have to turn around and pay the state with it. There might be $400 or so left over. Hardly enough to offset the expenses of having a child.

At one time, I would have agreed with you all, I would had a kind heart.

Not any more, not after I made the mistake of moving into this neighborhood without researching the surrounding homes first. Not after living 5 years in this welfare abundant, unemployed town. I see the level of disrespect these unemployed people dish out daily. Drugs, fussing, cussing, partying all night. And why not? Do they have to work the next day? Hardley. Running a fan all night drowns out much of the noise, but does little to drown out the occasional thumping car that drives by at 3AM.

Now DISSABILITY is a whole different subject. Of course, if you are disabled, then I have no problem with someone drawing social security, same goes for retirement.

That is a seperate (in theory) fund that everyone who has worked has paid into while they were working. If someone wins a dissability claim, then they will receive no greif from me. I do think it's assinine that you could amputed ams and legs, blind as a bat, can not hear, or speak, and you still have to hire a lawyer to win a case.

I respect your thoughts and opinions, but I do dissagree with them.

But in reality, it really makes no difference, welfare ain't goin nowhere... Perhaps someday I will cross the financial threshold and be able to afford the high taxes I have to pay as well as a nicer place to live away with this wannabe ghetto. I could have afforded it a long time ago, two years of taxes paid would have made a nice downpayment.

I do get your frustration--I lived in a neighborhood like the one you describe. But no, I don't think (and I don't think I came anywhere close to saying) that *everyone* should be on welfare. Even setting compassion, etc. to one side, I do think that everybody loses if it goes away. And I've known too many people over the years who were or are on welfare and are nothing like the people who live in your neighborhood, people who have worked and want to work but aren't able to work, at least not with any regularity. If it weren't for welfare, many of those people would starve to death. My conscience isn't okay with that. (My conscience isn't okay with anyone starving to death, even if they are lazy.) But, as I say, I don't mean to trivialize what you're saying: It does make sense to me, even though I don't agree with the conclusions you draw.

But I think we can all agree, that the problem with the "abusers" is they hide behind the ones who are not abusing the system.

You're absolutely right. And they make it really hard for non-abusers who need welfare to get it (in some states the wait for--at least some types of--benefits is measured in years, not months). To me, the saddest things about these kinds of discussions is just how much pain there is all around: Nobody has the market cornered on suffering, of course, and as I've grown older I suppose I've become more of a softy. But I'm okay with that!

Fair anough Akoue:

And I understand your point, but to be clear, those who "can't" work, I don't have a problem drawing money off the government. By definition of "can't", meaning they have some sort of physical or mental reason that can not work. This is where social security supported dissability comes in, which I have stated earlier, I have no problem with.

Those who CAN work, should work. And I do support cutting off those who CAN work. Able body adults who are capable of working, should work. Hands down. If they don't work, then I have no sypathy for them, should they choose to starve, remember they chose this, the COULD work, but chose not to.

But something tells me, that when they have to make the choice, work and eat, or don't work and starve, most of those will find work somewhere. The simple fact is, they have never had to make that choice, because they know in the back of their mind, someone will take care of them.

Now lets take Nohelp4u's scenario, of the single mother of 4 children who's husband, or father run oft. As I have said, raising children, especially 4 of them is a full time job. And as such, I don't have a problem with the woman in question receiving help. But I DO think the system should go after the father. At least make him pay a sizable child support payment.

And vice versa, if the woman runs off the man, leaving him with the kids, then he too will need help. But I think that who ever the kids are left with (man or woman), they need to try not to have more children until they are financially prepared to support all children with no support.

Even if both parents were unfit. Then, the children would be placed in foster care, where tax dollars would pay their custodian anyway. So if the actual parent of the child is fit, then naturally, I have no problem with them receiving help.

HOWEVER
Just as in foster care, if you are receiving help from the government, I do feel social services should apply all the same rules they would in the case of a foster parent, to verify you are raising the kids right, not abusing them, living in a drug free home, etc.

Just as in foster care, if you are receiving help from the government, I do feel social services should apply all the same rules they would in the case of a foster parent, to verify you are raising the kids right, not abusing them, living in a drug free home, etc.

I am in complete agreement with you. There needs to be oversight.

Scapegoating on the Poor...

How welfare effects your taxes!
P.S. It might cost more to jail them get this I looked up costs to jail a person for a year over $90,000.00 a year!!!! per person!!

I really wonder where these figures come from. Aside from the cost of building the prison, can anyone tell me what costs... $90K to keep ONE person in prison? That means for every 11 inmates it costs appro. $1 million?. Every 110 costs $10 million?
Prison inmates also do some of the work involved running the prison, so that cuts down on employee salaries. So how many inmates does an "average" prison hold? (I don't know this answer) Add it up.

The point I'm trying to make is there is fraud and theivery going on at all economic and social levels of our society. Cheat just a little on your taxes? Your deserved it, you say to yourself! If it weren't for all them "welfare bums", you'd have more money.
Never mind that billion dollar corporations are sucking your tax dollars for bail-outs then taking $500K vacations. Or the govt. has totally mismanged our whole economic system.

Just blame it all on the poor. After all, they're the low-life of society. They're the single MOTHERS with CHILDREN who don't work. They're the baby producers. Their children grow up to be the future minimum wage earners of tomorrow or join the military to protect your asses. Sure, some end up on drugs. The poor aren't the only ones. What's that you're taking? Or your kid(s)?

A poor person knows how to make do with what they have and not waste. Every dollar counts, and "used" is the word. Therefore they are the re-cyclers of yesterday, today, and tomorrow.Many don't own cars; they use public transportation. They don't contribute that 6 TONS of carbon monoxide per year from a car.

Well! Says the middle income wage earner. The work ethic still stands. Staying at home with your children is a luxury, a lot of fun and no work at all. They're all little angels.
"So go get a job". Go put your kids in an overcrowded daycare and find yourself a minimum wage job. Just get off welfare. (How much does day care cost, by the way?)

Oh yes, the program needs to be restructured. We should just get rid of it. That way we can put millions of State employees out of their $2500 (plus benefits) jobs. When I worked for the Welfare it was an extremely stressful job. Nowadays they just push a few keys on a computer.

And if one of your blood kin needs help, you make sure you step up to the plate. After all, it's your blood. You are partly responsible--why shove it on the taxpayers? Shame on you!
Why didn't you teach your daughters and sons about birth control? Did you think they wouldn't "do" it?

Blah blah blah...

There is no answer. We can improve the program and educate our children but who's going to serve you your next Big Mac?

Day care rates can vary anywhere from $35. To $75. Per day.
The average welfare person who manages to get a job averages about $35. To $80. Per day leaving them with maybe $300. To $600. Per month for other expenses (rent, utilities, work expenses such as transportation) after day care expense.

I stand by my position.

But as I've said, it's clear welfare isn't going anywhere.

It really burns my butt to see how some of these people take their benefits, stand in line, getting their assitance. Yet when you meet them on the street, they turn their noses up to you.

Maybe it isn't like that in ya'lls part of the country.

But all's I know is, when I leave for work, I have to meander around a bunch of welfare people loafing in the streets, giving me dirty looks. They move out of the way, scuffing their feet, smoking their cigarette.

If I come home for lunch, they are still there.

When I come home on time, they are still there.

If I work late... guess what - they are still there.

Hell, these men ain't even trying to find a job. It's so much easier to sit around a sap money off their knocked up girlfriends.

I'm sorry, I can not defend that. Perhaps in your part of the country, the system works, and everyone is in real hardship situations, but around here, it ain't like that.

Not only do many of them turn their noses up but they have an entitlement attitude. Like so many welfare moms in my neighborhood act like YOU OWE them a ride to the store, a cup of sugar, a few dollars or whatever. Then when you say NO they get all attitudey with you! They will even tell you ''My baby is on its last diaper and it is poopy'' to make you feel bad for the kid. You take them to the store for diapers. They come out with a carton of cigarettes and a half gallon of ice cream (NO diapers)and tell you they had to use the couple dollars they promised you.

For those of you posting here defending welfare who happen to be on some kind of assistance, or have in the past, I'm not trying to criticize you personally. I'm not saying there aren't people who really are doing the best they can. And I don't have a problem helping people out, I give to charities all the time.

I am saying, that I know how the greater majority of them around here live, and it's stomach turning. A friend of mine is a realtor/property manager who deals in section 8. I've done some side work for him from time to time, cleaning out some of his rentals when someone moves out.

I have seen some crazy, nasty stuff in some of these homes, I've actually gotten choked up when told about how some of these children had to live.

Because people who are to sorry to work, (note I said "to sorry to work", never said "can't work") are more often than not, to sorry to raise kids right, keep a house clean, or even do the dishes.

There's no excuse for it, and that's your tax dollars at work.

There needs to be a great deal of reform. And if a sorry man is shacking up with his girlfriend, then the system needs to be made aware of that. There are logical reasons why the (woman) who is tending 7 kids can not work, however there is no reason why a man, who is living with the woman can't find a job.

If I work, and have to pay taxes on my wife's dissability just because "we live together" then it stands to reason, this same logic should apply to welfare.

Nohelp4u:

Sorry, our post criss-crossed each other.

As I said before I understand because I DO see both sides of the fence. I see the needy greedy that are wasteful and unappreciative and I see the ones like myself...

As you said a hand UP NOT a hand out!

I stumbled across this topic at random and admittedly I haven't read through all 4 pages but I feel compelled to sound off. I am all for helping people but I do feel it is getting out of hand. I get up and go to work every day, I pay my taxes and essentially these peoples bills. Don't get me wrong, I am all for helping people but when tax time rolls around welfare recipients receive a nice refund while I either break even or end up paying.

I believe that welfare should be limited to 5 years. That is more than enough time to get a degree or learn a trade and there are certainly enough resources to help pay for tuition. This should be a requirement, not an option. You have to be willing to help yourselves. As they say, give a man a fish etc etc etc.

So far you have not given any ways to solve the problem Andrew. (and others)

There have been a very few suggestions on how to improve the system and some of those exist already. (5yr cap & work placement classes.) It's too bad we can't enforce birth control, yet who's to say who can have children? Good parenting/bad parenting runs in all classes of society.

There are a huge numere of factors involved in this huge system.

I think we should also get the rich and the government off "welfare" too

I still wonder who will serve your next fast food meal or clean your motel room toilet. Or serve the military. The "pool" comes from somewhere you know.

Would you like to cut off welfare progrms? Why?
How would you go about doing this?

Would you like to cut off welfare programs?
Yes- those that do not involve children, and for people who CHOOSE not to work. (not counting the disabled)

Why? Because I have a problem with my tax dollars funding the drug runners that are sure to proposition my children into meth crack, and God knows what else.

Because I have a problem with my tax dollars funding people who are just to lazy to work.

How would you go about doing this?
Stop writing the checks.

Now, to address the rest of your post:
I don't think I ever said I had a problem with helping people who are trying. (i.e. working, be it at a McDonalds, or Motel 6)

I don't go back on what I say, I'm aware I said "welfare is a complete waste of tax dollars". Perhaps that was somewhat of an overstatement, however I will say at least 80% of it is.

And I want you to know shadylady that my blood BOILED when both canidates for the presidency backed that STUPID BANK BAILOUT. And I was equally as disgusted with the AUTO BAILOUT. In fact, it was what prompted me to vote third party for the first time in my life. So my feelins ain't just for the poor.

If you (shadylady) are, or know someone who is on assistance, then I hope you are not taking my thoughts on this personal. I do not know you, nor your situation. Perhaps you (or your friend) are one of the few who are really trying.

Maybe you are not on assistance, perhaps you just have a big heart and can't imagine why someone like me would feel the way I do. If that be the case, I wish you could be in my shoes on some of these warm summer Saturday nights in this area "across the rail road tracks" and seen some of the ____ I've seen go down around here.

Was welfare the direct cause? Doubtful, I understand that. But there is more that comes with a job that money, dignity, respect, a desire to better yourself. All these come with a job. Be it a 60k per year office job, or flipping burgers. It's about being independent, and making a living with your own two hands.

I know some, like the mother of (insert number here) are doing the best they can. And being a good parent IS a full time job.

I guess the simple answer is, there is no answer. Some of those who abuse the system do not share my mentality. They feel it is there right for me to take care of them, and it's my duty to do so. For them, a day at a "job" is a wasted day. For me, a day at home doing nothing is "a wasted day". I guess its all in the character of the person.

And let me clear up this would be conflict in what I said:

"Andrew, how can you say this...."

Would you like to cut off welfare programs?
Yes- those that do not involve children, and for people who CHOOSE not to work. (not counting the disabled)

"...when you also say this..."



I don't think I ever said I had a problem with helping people who are trying. (i.e. working, be it at a McDonalds, or Motel 6)


"What is someone is "really trying" who doesn't happen to have kids?"

Answer: If you have no kids, then it is MUCH easier to make it, having children is very expensive. If you don't have kids, you can work as many jobs you want, and have the most flexible schedule. I'm not convinced that anyone of sound mind and body (not disabled) who doesn't have minor children should require assistance.

There are millions of things you can do aside from your day job at McDonalds, or Motel 6. Cut grass, split wood, walk dogs, paint, work at temp agencies... the list goes on...

But enough about me. I'm obvioulsy digging myself into a hole here... how would you solve the problem?

Maybe you are not on assistance, perhaps you just have a big heart and can't imagine why someone like me would feel the way I do. If that be the case, I wish you could be in my shoes on some of these warm summer Saturday nights in this area "across the rail road tracks" and seen some of the ____ I've seen go down around here.

Growing up in Gary, Indiana I know EXACTLY what you are talking about only it's nit just on warm summer Saturday nights ;). The welfare abuse here is beyond belief. It's not uncommon to be behind a woman at the grocery store, see her pay with food stamps only to watch her get into her brand new Cadillac.

Yep one woman I know got sect 8 sold drugs and then bought a hummer and a house and has her daughter and grand baby living in the sect 8 house.

Fraud investigation has come a long way since I worked at the State office. Centralized computers are now sharing information to ferret out fraud. It all takes time.
If you know of someone who is committing fraud and are pissed about it then you should pick up the phone and report them. Give the address and any other info you have. If you see them driving an expensive car, tell them the license number. There is a dollar limit on what a car is worth to qualify for assistance.
There is a whole separate unit called "Fraud Investigation" that does nothing but fact-finding. Part of the problem is people don't tell them.

My house burned and I had to go live in a shelter with my baby. The father is disabled and can't work. I was pregnant 7 monthes with my 2nd so I had to take maturnity leave. So I went on welfare. I met an interesting breed of people, welfare community. I became close to a girl there and we stayed friends after I was able to get on my feet and get out of there. Welfare helped at my time of need. When I was able to, I got off welfare.
Hanging out with my new friend bought to light some of the mentality that a large % of welfare receiptient possess.
I now have 4 beautiful children (all by same father) and am in need once more. I have a full time job. I don't use drugs or even drink. I've been denied welfare and medicaid this time becauseI couldn't take the time out of work enough times to complete the application process in time. Because I am not willing to lose my job, I can now barely pay rent or bills, I go hungry everyday so I can make sure my kids have enough to eat.
I than see these fat crack heads sitting at home playing video games and/or loitering the streets with skinny almost malnutritioned kids running around, and I know those regridgerators are empty because they've sold their food stamps for drug money. And I wonder, WHY!! why do they get the help that I need. I work so hard, they don't even try ! How come it's so much easier for these kinds of people to get help?

I say, Welfare - YES with random drug screening, and a job!

I agree also that able bodies should work. Even with the recession there are plenty to do.
I get assistance for my children to be in daycare, of course I'd rather stay home playing with my babies but I rather not teach my kids that this is the way to live. I want them to see mommy working and doing her best to contribute to the working community. But even with the daycare help I still have to pay out 50% of my income to send them. And this is after the 75% tuition that I get help with. That leaves me with not enough to pay rent, forget about electric and water. I've learned to be resourceful, seeking help from churches and other organizations. But I can't do this much longer. I am 20 lbs. underweight and go hungry everyday. I see my kids for 2 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening before bedtime. I don't have cable but have been donated a TV and VCR and going on sites that give away free things from individuals that don't want them anymore, such as VHS tapes for the kids.
My point is that I'm struggling and welfare knows it, but the only choice they give me is to be jobless in order receive help. What kind of sense is that?
I want to say tax the rich but what about the rich that actually have to put in hard physical work? Do those exist? I myself work behind a computer all day and so my job has also supplied me with a computer and internet at home, or else I wouldn't have this either.
My pig of a boss has suggested to me multiple of time that I should go dance or be his personal assistance to be able to support my family. Yuck. Creep.
I will apply again for welfare tomorrow.
For those that are bitter about their tax $ that I will have part in using (once I get accepted). Maybe you can put your mind at ease knowing that it's not all going to useless, lazy, fat*ss drug addicts. There are, I'm sure many good cause cases out there as well as bad.

I was at a hospital, while there a person comes into the E.R. didn't seem sick. He's checked out given aspirin for his headache. I asked an ER nurse, "what was that all about"? She said that was one one the regulars and needed more aspirin. She told me they way the Medical card works is it covers Emergency's 100% and its so Abused

I thought wow that cost the Tax papers what? $ 500+ to U.S. working stiffs.
I thought , Why is the system so broken?

Ah! Medical establishment receives 100s of Millions from the medical cards patience that have no job or insurance and uses the E.R. to drive Welfare costs up for non emergency's Saw that same person days later on the street doing the deal.

So Welfare is also a supplemental income check for the drug dealers and the cash workers. Explains a lot of Expensive sneakers and outfits.

I also came up with Welfare is a double problem in itself. It helps create Babies to be on welfare too. ( not everybody)

It's a human nature thing. No Job, Close to broke. A lot of time on your hands so, What can I do that's cheap/free and will make me feel good and its legal... SEX!

Its well documented when a town has a blizzard and people can't go to work for a day or more that 9 Months later the local hospital will have a surge of babies. The hospital will actually monitor this to be ready.

When a couple/person works hard and child or not, will have a lot less time or opportunity to have Sex period. The old saying " Not tonight honey I'm tired" seems to apply here.

'What's the simple odds of a couple or a single person relaxing while on vacation. More rested and have more Sex with there partner (kids or not) or would like to enjoy tax free fun. ( I know all my friends do like me married or not ) I would be curious how many couples conceive on a weekend or on a vacation.

We have a habitual welfare takers male and female alike having ALL the time in the world to be rested enough for some anytime Sex. ( this doesn't apply to all but it applies to too many)

Look at the large numbers of children with career welfare parent(s)

So the side effect from welfare in its self, can create problems and feeds on itself to create more Welfare in the future. A child see this, and con easily think this is how to live and perceives it to be NORMAL, inadvertently passive child abuse. ( again not all but to many)

Last summer I was talking to a city police officer and he had an arrest were the person had THREE welfare checks in his wallet. NY. NJ. Pa. The officer called NY. They said oh can't really do anything about it. I bet if you called the I R S on someone cheating on taxes or tax fraud the Gov IRS wouldn't say, ohh... Theres even a hot line for that.

So to ask oneself here what's going on Gov.

1. The medical field is now so tied into it for income. ( I can't afford 100% health Care)
2. WE can't pick on the welfare person because it might start a racial thing.
3. We don't want other countries to think we have starving people like the third world countries. ( although it looks like that Now with the bloodshed and the trashed streets and Steel bars on many windows.

Ever notice how we say " The streets are getting bad in that area" How can that be unless it has potholes. We dare not say " "There's some bad people down there" Its to direct toward someone. The funny thing is when I work in those neighborhoods the people complain and worded it " There's some bad people in this neighborhood" They know it. I'm there and I feel bad for them and now the house value went down instead of up and they really get trapped.

How to predict when the next Surge of welfare in an area is coming. Just like a hospital.
Example Detroit school district 11. in Detroit, where only 21.7 students graduate and 47 percent in Metro Detroit -- nearly one of out of every two adults -- is functionally illiterate. According to a government report, "The State of Literacy in America." In fact, national studies suggest Detroit's illiteracy rate is the highest among major American cities. According to a 2002 United Nations report, Detroit falls short even when compared to developing Third World nations, such as Cuba, which has 2.7 percent illiteracy rate. In Ecuador, 7 percent of adults can't read, and in El Salvador, 18.9 percent of adults.

This is becoming such a big problem and so much so the welfare will be one of biggest industry in the U.S. You think the bail outs are expensive now! Correlate Welfare and education attitudes in the fast rising hoods and then punch these habitual welfare generations that get arrested and now cost us again $ 90,000.00 per year for one person in jail.

I have been saying for YEARS. Police/audit Welfare recip. Drug Test to Qualify for a Gov paycheck. After so long on welfare you must sign up for a Gov sponsored GED or a Gov sponsored Job training program. Obviously some won't get it But by simple numbers if x amount of ones hopefully be elevated and not feeling trapped, has skills it's a win for them and tax payers. It's a numbers game pay not Or 10 fold next generation of welfare babies.

It would be real interesting to see how much in welfare could be saved buy policing it and turn that savings to a better use then throwing gas into the fire.

Welfare has its place and its good we have it BUT It needs TOTALLY restructured.

The same thing happened to that effect in Jackson Mississippi after Hurricane Katrina. I was damage assessment for the Red Cross, drove 4 out of the 5 counties there looking at damage assessment claims filled out by the actual people that live there making a claim to RED CROSS. Sadly I could only help out about 5% of the claims. The rest were Bogus! I even flew down on my own ticket No expanse to Red Cross or the Donations they got from the all very generous giving working people. I'm a contractor that thought I would try to help out someone in a big pinch Been there myself I know how it feels.

You think Welfare is big now wait and see 20 years from now!

I have been saying for YEARS. Police/audit Welfare recip. Drug Test to Qualify for a Gov paycheck. After so long on welfare you must sign up for a Gov sponsored GED or a Gov sponsored Job training program. Hello boat:

Do YOU have to be DRUG tested for YOUR government handout?? What? You don't take government handouts?? Oh, I see. You just change the name of your handout from welfare to a tax deduction...

THEN it's COOL to line up at the government cash window, if you can fool yourself into thinking the handout YOU'RE getting AIN'T welfare...

Well, DUDE! It IS welfare, and you can't fool me.

Do you own a home?? Do you get to deduct your interest from your income?? WHY?? I don't own a home. I don't get to deduct my RENT.. WHY do YOU get MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT when I can't??

Plus, I think interest deductions causes babies. Oh, it's a proven fact that when people don't have to work a second job to make up for the interest deduction they're NOT getting, they don't have time to screw as much as you rich folks.

excon

I see. You just change the name of your handout from welfare to a tax if you can fool yourself into thinking the handout YOU'RE getting AIN'T welfare.... deduction.... Do you own a home??? Do you get to deduct your interest from your income???? WHY??? I don't own a home. I don't get to deduct my RENT.. WHY do YOU get MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT when I can't???? Plus, I think interest deductions causes babies. Oh, it's a pr oven fact that when people don't have to work a second job to make up for the interest deduction they're NOT getting, they don't have time to screw as much as you rich folks. I don't own a home. I don't get to deduct my RENT.. WHY do YOU get MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT when I can't????

The highlighted are shows you obviously missed the point and taking it to far out of context. It must be nice to be verbatim and not understanding the nuances or general gist. It either is or isn't for you. It would be nice if it were that easy. My post even stated ( NOT ALWAYS) but the averages are addressed.

So is it taxes they take out of your paycheck or do they just deduct money from your paycheck and call it taxes.

Did you forget basic math. There are NO handouts unless someone works or somehow rich and pays taxes. The overall government doesn't make a dime, and yet its one of the biggest employer in the U.S..

I came from a poor family. I lived in a finished attic with two brothers and me at my mean grandmothers tiny house. Mom left my Drunk dad in the middle of the night.
My mom met my new dad a year or so after he got out of the service. Not only that My real dad never sent us a dime to help us kids! My new dad couldn't get a TAX BREAK because are last names were different than cna't claim us as dependents!

So don't preach to me about TAX BRAKES. I wore ALL hand me downs. The first night we spent at the rented house (12 years) was My mom and my new dad Honeymoon night! ALL of us in sleeping bags In the new rented house and mom and dad on each side of us. We moved halfway across state and when we got what little furniture My new dad had it was SPARSE. The card table was the kitchen table and you literally had to put your Knee under the one end metal scissors lock to keep it from collapsing. Mom cooked 1001 to make SPAM. Also it was water with carnation instant milk to give it the appearance it was milk.
I grew up and RENTED also. I didn't get a TAX BREAK. I worked 1 full time job and one par time job during the week and the weekend was another PART time Job. No tax break yet and paying a lot of taxes on those 3 jobs! MY dad while growing WORKED a part time job above his full time job to feed us kids and NO WELFARE!! We had no TV for YEARS and used when we got one. I see welfare kids with T.V. and SAGAS.

You asked do I own a home, you BET I BUSTED MY BUTT Getting NO TAX brakes to do so.

My daughters also RENT, They don't get a TAX break either. They are smart enough at 22 to realize to get a HOUSE they either change jobs or get a part time job and hope to save enough to BUY a house.

Apparently you missed that in word association. What, you think every Tom and Sue reaches 18 and boom a house is born for them. HARD WORK is how its DONE in the U.S. That's what created our industries and put men on the moon, in case you missed something

You asked do I own a home you BET I BUSTED MY BUTT Getting NO TAX brakes to do so.
We had no TV for YEARS and used when we got one. I see welfare kids with T.V. and SAGAS. ON WELFARE. I even bought rentals after that No help from GOV. I PAID MY DUES!

My daughters also RENT, What you think nobody rents but you rents, They don't get a TAX break either. They are smart enough at 22 to realize to get a HOUSE they either change jobs or get a part time job and hope to save enough to BUY a house.

Apparently you missed that in word association. What you think every Tom and Sue reaches 18 and boom a house is born for them. HARD WORK is how its DONE in the U.S. That created out industry and put men on the moon, in case you missed something here.

I think you need educated on taxes and how property's and rentals property works in a city or anywhere here in the U.S. For example a city mil tax in large is based on what it needs to operate the city, It weighs what the fed gives it and what it needs to collect in property tax and the occupation tax along with business paying etc to balance its long term budgets. A LARGE part of that comes from TAXES of ALL properties period, rental of not. ( the structures)

Property Tax is based on its assessed value by neighborhoods and areas it was built in

So here is x property assessed at $100k and is a location is in a good part of the City. The owner pays the TAX'S on that property through rents or why own it. He also pays to the City a percentage on his income from that property, indirectly or directly if that's all he has for income. And pays it to that city/township.

Now that property in time should go up in value. If there is another re assessment by county etc the tax will go up on its higher assessed value $120 K. The city gets more money on that property if its re assessed.

But the neighborhood starts to change after that, More trash on the streets and walks/ Graffiti and now Drugs, more crime and welfare thrives there now. So the rentals gets LESS money because of gettorizing. The landlord has hard time now paying the properties assessed Tax value that was done 5 or 10 years ago. He now makes less profit and city gets less out of that % of his income. The property needs more repair because of that moved into that block(S) are tearing it up. He makes even less money because of abnormal wear and tear. He's in a rock and a hard place. Now he's just waiting for someone to sell near him so he can document a "comparable" to use as a new base to lower his value on that property. He goes to the assessment office/hearing to present his case with a comparable so it can be re assessed back to a lower value to help offset the lower rents it gets because of that block is now ghettoized.

Now the domino effect also is the city needs to hire more police to try and hold back the crime and killings in that block(s) 20 years ago us was a whole different type of people there. So MORE TAXES is need to pay for THAT. Now the county JAIL needs more employees. You can use WELFARE to track down where the worst part of towns are. Look at where the Highest amount of Welfare is sent in a city density to By address etc and there you will find What I just talked about. This isn't up for debate it simple facts and math. Don't use a factory layoff to prove otherwise. Its over time averages.

You asked do I own a home you BET I BUSTED MY BUTT Getting NO TAX brake to do so.
We had no TV for YEARS and used when we got one. I see welfare kids with T.V. and SEGAS. ON WELFARE.

My daughters also RENT, What you think nobody rents but you rents, They don't get a TAX break either. They are smart enough at 22 to realize to get a HOUSE they either change jobs or get a part time job and hope to save enough to BUY a house.

Tom and Sue reaches 18 and boom a house is born for them. HARD WORK is how its DONE in the U.S. That created out industry and put men on the moon, in case you missed something here.
.Do the math here Excon. A percentage of rent you PAY is effected because of Welfare and it ain't betting smaller in checks going out. Probably never will. Now matter how you slice it, MONEY is MONEY and it has to come from someone.

Some people CHOOSE to rent their whole life. The money I have or don't have is not based on tax deductions is based on butt kicking work. I didn't wallow about not getting a tax break from the Years I rented or use semantics to make excuses to myself as to why or why not I didn't get anywhere. We all make our own choices bottom line. No one held a gun to our heads. I grew up POOR and made a Choice to change that no matter what it took. I talk to some of the landlords that grew up in the hoods, they will tell you the same things Ive been saying here. Butt kicking work pays off. They are now landlords cussing at there own people. There on the other end and realizing how hard it is to collect there rents etc. Bottom line is You make your own bed and you lie in it. That's daily life, some are lucky and others have bad luck. The challenge is make it work.

Hello again, 21:

So, you DO take the handout then, don't you? Then you justify getting it with your rant above... It's cool. I don't blame you. NOBODY is going to walk away from the government cash window.

I just wondered why you think you shouldn't be drug tested before you got YOUR handout. But, I guess if you bust your butt to get your handout, you don't have to be drug tested.

I understand now.

excon

LOL Most of the people that I was in line with for hand outs made it a full time career AND the biggest crack heads you can imagine

Would you rather a million dollars of taxpayer money go to re-decorating some executive's office or helping approximately 400 people for 5 years?

Would you rather your tax dollars be spent helping Americans or be sent to foreign countries to develop THEIR programs?

Yes there is fraud. And through the years safeguards get put in place to reduce welfare fruad. The system also relies on public information and cooperation, which often doesn't happen.

Yet where are the priorities when it comes to using American tax dollars? Why do tapayers pay $6 million to move a new president into the white house?

Why isn't the American Public given a breakdown of where our tax dollars are spent? Not just a "pie chart", but an actual list for whoever asks.

It's always about management of money, and just who is it that has control of it by the way? Politics & business are run by men. Their favorite game is war, not helping women. Children, the elderly, or the disabled.

The money going to welfare programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the other places it's going. Still, at least it's benefitting a large group of human beings.

Two Excellent Views hear I'm impressed!! Not only does this show the Welfare system is broken, it reflects other ways our Government is not doing a good Job policing themselves.

Another big Way Welfare abuse can effect us.

We are heading down the wrong road when our city streets look like third world countries with all the trash/crime/murders/ defacing public property. This Is NOT what I Want America to visually look like or live in worrying about a stray bullet killing my child my wife or me while walking down the street. Look at what happened in the last 50 years.

As our country grew I feel we ignored this too much as it was happening. We generally thought oh those people live across town and we will let them shoot each other. Well dumb science. We forgot simple math and just buy higher Welfare births rates the it was only going to get worse. This is now Consuming our great cities and ruining our way in our U.S. cities and towns, Just compare it from 20 or 50 years ago. How many of the people in the U.S. has been killed in our city streets. Its an actual WAR ZONE. Welfare does effect this and help promote it At times I see Welfare like a warning label on a medicine. MAY CURE the illness but may kill the body the illness is in. Especially if the pill is ABUSED and not taken correctly and monitored.

We simply need to figure out a SAFER way to prescribe the pill and not kill the neighborhoods.

I like to see the study of our prisoners in jail and see how many of them were on WELFARE when arrested or how often they received Welfare in and out of jail. The average prisoner cost us $90,000.00 a year to feed and house them. Another different form of welfare. So how do they deserve a TAX BREAK. I would like to see the studies on how many of our prisoners grew up on Welfare. And how many that get out will be on welfare the rest of there lives.

Excon As far as tax breaks Yes anybody busting there Butt at there BASIC capabilities and Tries to contribute into the system to become a good Stewart of this country deserves the slice of the pie. Even a person on welfare TRYING to bust there butt to get off it and trying RISE themselves to be a more productive human. In turn they become a better American citizen and an good asset to there community by example. That's all that's basically asked here.

It starts from the basic farmer in the field so we can EAT with the garbage man to pick up our food trash to the rocket scientist. All of these people and all between that is what this country needs and has and that's what helped us become a World leader. ALL Busting their Butts. The other part of society of habitual career Welfare recipients ROB from the system. Just on a side note I would like to see how many of them volunteered At a soup kitchen or just pickup the trash up in front of where they Live. Being poor is not a license to physically TRASH the streets. That's a direct sign they are LAZY and most likely will Abuse the system and don't even care about there neighbor hood, Of course for some the trash on the streets is normal from where they come from and can't get it that other Americans in general Hate to see there cities TRASHED!

So what are the odds here about caring to get a job. I see to many Welfare people not so to lazy on going to the local bar and take out a six pack or quart and the leave the trash or bottle lay in the streets or on someone's porch railing or in there little front yard, How lazy is THAT.

Excon If I used your approach to TAX break getting a deductions then you better SCREAM at ALL WELFARE recipients that get a Medical card and food stamps and welfare check.

That's the BIGGEST TAX BREAK ONE CAN RECEIVE Is WELFARE! So before you start picking on the working class pick on the career habitual welfare people and start from the ground up.

One of the best Stories and EXAMPLE of what Welfare can do is read compsavvyimnoton I almost got tears when I read her post. She is a true stand up American that helps to make this Country GREAT. Its about Mentally and physically trying to be a good Stewart as a human being.

Simply try your best and don't be LAZY.The women that life's circumstances beat her and her family up and she ROSE to and became a good Stewart to her, her kids and family. Got off welfare and is trying to stay off that. That is exactly what Welfare is for. TO give another chance to start in life. Not just sit there 10 years later and nothing changes...

"The money going to welfare programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the other places it's going. Still, at least it's benefiting a large group of human beings." hear is how the welfare drop in the bucket Hurt NY city. Some History on Welfare relating to what I'm talking about. And related articles.

Goldberg v. Kelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldberg_v._Kelly)
Fiscal crisis in 1975 taught New York hard lessons of chopping, freezing that are handy now (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/02/02/2009-02-02_fiscal_crisis_in_1975_taught_new_york_ha.html)
FindLaw | Cases and Codes (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=397&invol=254)

To a point I agree, But we thought the other side of town was a drop in the bucket. Add the numbers in Welfare add the Medical cards cost. Add and how it sets up free time on the streets to get in trouble and get sucked into it. Harder to do when you work a full time job and it takes time to set up deals. Now add that residual of the Welfare holders that now go to prison and cost us daily about $250.00 a day per person.

Now add this "Yep one woman I know got sect 8 sold drugs and then bought a hummer and a house and has her daughter and grand baby living in the sect 8 house." "

Add the multiplies of the generations of Welfare Birth rates. Add the added strain on the cities policing because of MORE welfare babies being born into Welfare and they to many times do as the see. Add the extra load form that to prison housing costs, project that 10 or 20 years from now! It gets REAL serious down the road. We can adjust deductions on Gov. We adjust or cut programs. But try adjust making it harder to get Welfare and see who screams the most.

ShadyLady "Fraud investigation has come a long way since I worked at the State office. Centralized computers are now sharing information to ferret out fraud. It all takes time." Part of the problem is people don't tell them. I hope they get quicker on that. Remember I said in my las post the city officer called NY about the arrested person with THREE Welfare checks. The Spanish community uses pet names and nick names a lot. Just 10 to 15 or so years in P.R. there was hardly mailboxes at there houses. You find a person many times on there nickname. If its used here hard to trace names that are so identical.

compsavvyimnot And I wonder, WHY !!, why do they get the help that I need. I work so hard, they don't even try ! How come it's so much easier for these kinds of people to get help?

Not to be a joke here but the experts on how to get welfare is in the hood areas and how that works is many seem to have 3 generations in that schooling. Oops maybe wrong hear, 4 generations alive and 5 sometimes still living,

Thats the BIGGEST TAX BREAK ONE CAN RECEIVE Is WELFARE!! So before you start picking on the working class pick on the career habitual welfare people and start from the ground up.Hello again, 21:

I'm not picking on you. I'm simply pointing out that you line up at the cash window just like everybody else does. What? You think I don't??

The difference between us, is that I don't think anybody in line at the cash window, is any better than anyone else.

You, however, think you somehow DESERVE the handout you get, because you work hard. But the handout received by poor people isn't deserved.

I don't get that, but it's not news... Everybody who gets a check from the government thinks HE deserves it, and the OTHER guy doesn't. Nope, that's not news at all.

excon

I'm simply pointing out that you line up at the cash window just like everybody else does.

Hi Excon I don't feel you are picking on me at all. You are simply using the freedom of speech we have in the U.S. We are lucky to live here!

ALL the views here have some good points yours also. Its all good to kick it around. I think the diff from your approach and mine is how you get to the window. I don't lump a tax break as a handout.

In simple logic if I put Money in the basket and get a fraction back later its not a true handout in the sense of the word. A handout is when you don't put money in the basket or so little you take more than what you put in. "The free beer party moocher that never brings any beer or food." That's becomes a Handout.

I just think you are trying to use word play to prove a point. Its taken to far to fit right.

Its like saying don't you think everyone deserve to breathe.

Lets try to get the chicken and the egg here. The Govs money is basically All tax money. So that meas in simple math If I pay TAXES and get a TAX break it was My money to begin with I worked for and paid in. I have just on one 4 unit city property I pay $5,400.00 in Taxes a year on that's $162.000.00 in 30 years with out a tax hike. Add my paycheck taxes to that. I'm self employed. That automatically means I pay Double in taxes. So look at your paycheck and take DOUBLE out of that. If you make 40k and ruffly pay $6,000.00 taxes. I pay $12,000.00 on that same 40k. I know about the tax window and what little I get back.

There's many people at the cash window that's better then the other person at the same cash window. TOO much Fraud is at the cash window. Read the one post here of Section 8 with the .

I understand you saying everybody is the same at the cash window. I agree until it comes to the welfare Fraud at that window or the lazy Habitual user, which is hurting the next person in line that NEEDS help for many Valid reasons.

I'm pretty sure That's the general gist here. I will NEVER be against Welfare for the legitimate person. I'm having problems of me BUSTING my Butt working in the Welfare Neighborhoods and there they sit. Young mom 16 to 20+ pregnant again too diff guys no man around and living at home with mom and dad and them not working also. The strong young men and women just coasting on welfare.

Siting there and TRASH everywhere most likely from them and I see them throw it on the ground. So there they are collecting and using my TAXES and I have to look at them wandering around all week long and physically trashing What's MY City TOO.

I do re haps on rentals I KNOW what its all about after 30 yeas of seeing how Welfare is Abused and grown. I'm sick and tired of it to the point I would like to make a documentary on it to PROVE there is a society problem and its NOT a social economical problem. Too many of these Welfare neighborhoods are one of the biggest cost in crime by footprint. They do more damage physically and run more blocks than can be imagined.

Also a big effect on Welfare is the illiteracy crisis we have in the cities. You think the 78% of the kids in Detroit that quit school or didn't graduate are going to be able to get a real job! "hey mom and dad and my friends are on Welfare why should I graduate and work. I will just get Welfare easier than working for the Man and do some deals"
Is it no wonder that 47% of Detroit metro is illiterate. Not a lot going on there. Gee wander how many of them have used or is still on Welfare!

How's mom and dad that's been on Welfare for YEARS going to tell there kids, What! Get a job son or daughter!! Huh!

This is not an social economical problem that's been so coined so as to to offend a group of people. Its simply a social problem of how one lives. That would be fine if it was to IMO ROVE the value of the neighborhood or maintain its value. Not turning it into a third world city.

It's a basic fact in Life. When you WORK for things you appreciate those things more and other people things more if you are normal. That applies to the regular Joe and the working rich. How do you think the rich stay rich. What trashing the street and where they live!

We used to call those people BUMS and now its not politically correct. Sorry to MANY are just plain BUMS!!

Many states have now initiated a 5 year cap on welfare. Not only is this a message to what you call Welfare "bums", but the main goal is a deterrant to teenage pregnancy and future welfare applicants.

I think I mentioned before. An ideal society is in your mind NO WELFARE. If there were suddenly no welfare, imagine how many state workers would lose their jobs. The state worker who makes 5 times what a recipient gets.

I also mentioned mismanagement of taxpayer's dollars. What about our dollars going to foreign countries? 10 Billion per month going to re-build Iraq, for example. Millions going to foreign countries to provide abortions and birth control.

The problem with the Welfare system is that the government ENCOURAGES it. They hand out checks without providing any incentive to get off welfare. Why don't they provide schooling, job training, or other programs? Why is it that when a person gets a job they only provide child care for one year? A parent working a minimum wage simply cannot afford child care expenses.

Why can't the government supplement a family after they go to work?

The system sets these people up for failure. Why? It is part of the "social strata". They need to maintain certain classes in a working society, and the poor become the scapegoat for the average taxpayer. This diverts the focus off of governmental tax dollar waste. It works, doesn't it?

I still would like to know where the figures of $90,000 per inmate are obtained.

Excon,Hello boat:
Do YOU have to be DRUG tested for YOUR government handout????? What? You don't take government handouts??? Oh, I see. You just change the name of your handout from welfare to a tax deduction....
Do you own a home??? Do you get to deduct your interest from your income???? WHY??? I don't own a home. I don't get to deduct my RENT.. WHY do YOU get MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT when I can't????
Shadylady
What about our dollars going to foreign countries? 10 Billion per month going to re-build Iraq, for example. Millions going to foreign countries to provide abortions and birth control.

" Judy Kay Tee disagrees: Again, could you PLEASE stick to the topic?"

Judy Kay Tee I was sticking to the topic and also answering Excons questions. My post, weather you consider them Rants or not was about welfare in the U.S. and what residual effects it has in The U.S. and how it relates to welfare . Or what it could effect.

Part of my " not sticking to topic " was answering Expert Excon Direct Questions to me and I gave examples and history as to where my thoughts came from. I felt he deserved and answer to his direct questions to Me . Not to mention Excon is labeled as an Expert and I respect his thoughts and questions as others posters Here. I don't agree on some of the things he posted, but I didn't rate his comments. Excon also posted "I hope you don't think I'm picking on you." which is very admirable and respectable to say the least.

Judy Kay Tee, Shadylady one post mentions about the war in Iraq and foreign country's which is way off the subject Of Welfare in the U.S. And yet you give me a disagree about not sticking to the topic. How does that work?

Shadylady[/B] one post mentions about the war in Iraq and foreign country's which is way off the subject Of Welfare in the U.S. And yet you give me a disagree about not sticking to the topic. How does that work?


I find you to be a pseudointellectual. You seem to cut and paste with no understanding.

Shadylady grasps the main concept.

I wasn't really off the subject. I was trying to actually show that "welfare" comes in many disguises.

Wasn't the $80 billion "bail out" a form of welfare? How about the auto manufacturers?

The money spent on foreign countries is nothing more than "welfare" also.

Now that our economy is screwed, the President tells us (the working taxpayers) to be "strong" and tighten our belts while he sits in his ivory tower sending billions to other countries! How can our economy survive when hundreds of thousands of jobs are being lost and will continue this way?

Yes, scapegoat on our poor. They are your closest target.

I suppose if there wasn't some form of assistance there would be even MORE crime in this country. People don't seem to be smart enough to know what causes babies. This is one of the reasons behind the politics of keeping abortion legal.

Anytime you give money away it's called welfare.