We are $65,000 in debt, (unsecured credit card debt)!! We have looked into LAWGISTIX AND SUPERIOR FINANCIAL GROUP. We are very hesitant to proceed because we have a credit score in the 700 range. We are current in all of our payments, never late, and in good standing. BUT, it is getting difficult to just make the minimum's and at this rate we will NEVER get out of this mess. I know that our credit score will take a huge hit, but I am willing to do it if I know that these company's can really settle for us. I don't know I guess I am just afraid of being sued and all the consequences that will go with it. If ANYONE has ever dealt with either of the above company, please let me know. Any positives and negatives would be of great help. ANY advice is appreciated. I need help!! Thanks a lot!!

NO, NO, NO, NO

With a FICO score in the 700s, that is pretty good.

Go to a bank, get a loan to pay off all the credit card debt. Then deal with 1 loan.

A bank loan will have FAR LESS interest than the credit cards will.

What country do you live in? I know about the Canadian laws but not so much on the American ones, or anywhere else for that matter. Just thought if it was Canada I might be able to help.

I live in Ohio. Thanks anyway!!

Debt settlement works if you have the right company to do it for you and the right creditor mix. I don't know about those two companies you mentioned but if you want a recommendation from me, PM me and I will give you one.

As for your credit score, you can't expect it to come back up to the 700s very soon. I will say though that we have had clients that went trhu a debt settlement program and without doing ANY credit restoration, their credit scores rose between 20-120 points from when they started. However, there is just no way to tell how your credit will be affected with this little info.

A bank loan may work but check out the rates... if your DTI is high, you may not get the rate you are looking for. Hands down, debt settlement offers the lowest monthly payments.

Do you own a home? We have helped a lot of people do a combo home loan with debt settlement. Its an awesome option that will bring your overall payments way down. It gets you in and out of the settlement program quick and allows you to start rebuilding your credit sooner.

(Sorry if this sounds like a pitch... its not. Lol)

Did you make a decision? We are in a similar situation and talking with several debt settlement companies but we are very nervous as we have not talked with anyone who has been in a program similar to this.

No financial planner would ever recommend a mortgage refinance (one form of debt consolidation) to get out of credit card debt. It is substituting secured debt for unsecured debt and you could lose your home over a bunch of unsecured credit card debt if you get injured or can't afford your new higher monthly payments.

Also, and these are verifiable published reports, 77% of all people who refinance their way out of credit card debt are right back at the same level of credit card debt 2.5 years later on average only now with less equity in their home. So it obviously isn't fixing the problem.

Why?

Because no behavior modification was needed. You made it too easy on them to just refinance out of cc debt. No financial planner will ever recommend that route.

In settlement though they have to go without using credit cards for 2 to 3 years and do go through behavior modication. Secondly, credit counseling entries on your credit report are as bad as bankruptcy entries
They will crash your FICO for 10 years and take you from a 700 FICO down to low 500's literally overnight.

Debt settlement on the other hand is only a late pay on your credit report. Late pays bring down a 700+ FICO about 40-50 points, they bring down 600+ FICO's about 30 points, and bring down 500+ FICOs about 10-20 points. But more importantly, the FICO goes back up more than the drop from late pays as the debt is eliminated so the debt to income ratio goes down to zero and their FICO is back up higher than it was before they joined a settlement program even with the late pays on there, but they shouldn't be. Negotiating a withdrawal of the late pay entry as part of the negotiated settlement is a very common part of the process.

Superior Debt is the only company that pays for credit restoration at the end of the program, bringing the FICO up even higher. It also helps to remove any of the late pay marks that may have accumulated, further ensuring that your credit score will be in great shape after all is said and done.

This is the post I was referring to except he withheld the link so it wouldn't be tagged as spam...

But just to correct ALL the errors in the information provided by Superior...


No financial planner would ever recommend a mortgage refinance (one form of debt consolidation) to get out of credit card debt. It is substituting secured debt for unsecured debt and you could lose your home over a bunch of unsecured credit card debt if you get injured or can't afford your new higher monthly payments.

Financial Planners WOULD recommend a debt consolidation loan in some cases... I AM a financial planner and I have recommended it before. Please do not make generalized false statements as such. There is no cookie cutter solution for people in debt. It requires a complete analysis of your financial situation... past, present, and future to give a QUALITY recommendation to anyone.



why?

Because no behavior modification was needed. You made it too easy on them to just refinance out of cc debt. No financial planner will ever recommend that route.


Behavior modification usually IS needed... just not always given. Sure a consolidation loan alone is not helping all of these people... but a settlement program alone wouldn't help them either. They are just as likely to find themselves in the same amount of debt 2.5 years after completing a settlement program as they are with consolidation loan. The lesson must be learned.




In settlement though they have to go without using credit cards for 2 to 3 years and do go through behavior modication.



Are you saying that your settlement company offers "Behavior Modification" for its clients?

Going without credit cards for 2 or 3 years MAY help someone but it is not guaranteed. People need to educate themselves financially... whether they are in debt or not. This is not something that is taught at school... though it should be!




Secondly, credit counseling entries on your credit report are as bad as bankruptcy entries they will crash your FICO for 10 years and take you from a 700 FICO down to low 500's literally overnight.



This is just 100% wrong.

A credit counseling entry on your credit report is NOT just as bad as a bankruptcy. And a credit counseling entry will NOT affect your credit score one bit!

When you enroll in credit counseling there will be an entry below each account (usually just says "DMP" for Debt Management Program). This DOES NOT affect your FICO score or your Beacon score!

However, a lendor will see this and may not be willing to lend to you while you are in the program. The thing is that this is telling them that you are struggling with the payments you have now and if you are trying to acquire a new monthly payment through them, they are likely to turn you down.

The good news is that, unlike bankruptcy, once you have completed the credit counseling program, the lenders will not care that you were once in it. The mark will still be there but the debt is gone and they just don't care. So it is not "just as bad as a bankrupcty" and it will not "crash your FICO score for 10 years."




Debt settlement on the other hand is only a late pay on your credit report. Late pays bring down a 700+ FICO about 40-50 points, they bring down 600+ FICO's about 30 points, and bring down 500+ FICOs about 10-20 points.



This is also bad advice... I can't say that it is wrong because for some people, this will be the case. But to generalize this for EVERYONE is completely misleading.

There is no way to determine how much a certain mark is going to affect Everyone's score. There are TOO MANY variables. For example:

Lets say I have a 600 FICO score. Lets say that this was made up on ONE account. By Superiors admission here, he says that if that one account goes late, my score will drop about 30 points. Maybe...

Here's the other hand:

Lets say I have a 600 FICO score. However, lets say that this was made up of 100 different credit accounts. Now, if that same account went late, do you REALLY think it will have as much of an effect as in Example A??

C'mon... please... to claim that someone knows this and that it applies to EVERYONE is just ignorant.




But more importantly, the FICO goes back up more than the drop from late pays as the debt is eliminated so the debt to income ratio goes down to zero and their FICO is back up higher than it was before they joined a settlement program even with the late pays on there, but they shouldn't be. Negotiating a withdrawal of the late pay entry as part of the negotiated settlement is a very common part of the process.



This is usually true but not for everyone. Typically, the higher your score is when you enroll in a settlement program, the harder it will be to get it back up that high. However, in many cases, we have seen scored jump anywhere between 20-120 points higher than they were before they entered the program.




Superior Debt is the only company that pays for credit restoration at the end of the program, bringing the FICO up even higher. It also helps to remove any of the late pay marks that may have accumulated, further ensuring that your credit score will be in great shape after all is said and done.

Still not entirely true... they are not the ONLY ones that do this. There are other settlement companies that offer credit restoration for their clients.


All in all, this is obviously copied from their website or something. I actually hadn't heard much bad about Superior Debt Relief... until now. To go and publicly spew all this cr@p (sorry) in a forum like this is just shooting yourself in the foot. I would not recommend Superior Debt Relief to anyone looking for a debt settlement company solely based on their representation.

Luckily he omitted the part about the BBB in this post or I would have had more to rant about.

Anyone scanning this thread, before you buy into this BS posted before me by Superior, please read this post

Thank you and have a GREAT day :D

A Moderator's side note:

A post was deleted in this thread that was blatant advertising.

Users are not permitted to advertise their services within posts, but putting a link to your services in your signature is no problem. In fact, you see I do so myself with one of the links in my own sig.

So the way to play the middle ground - and be sure to not appear to be advertising - is to stick to directly answering the initial question.

Financial Planners WOULD recommend a debt consolidation loan in some cases... I AM a financial planner and I have recommended it before. Please do not make generalized false statements as such. There is no cookie cutter solution for people in debt. It requires a complete analysis of your financial situation... past, present, and future to give a QUALITY recommendation to anyone.

If you're a financial planner, and you recommend that somebody trade their unsecured debt for secured debt, then you are asking them to put up property to take care of unsecured debt loads. Why would you advise somebody to put their house on the line to take care of old credit cards? I agree that it requires a complete analysis of their financial situation to give a QUALITY recommendation, but this is a forum. To generally state that it is a good idea to put up property to take care of unsecured debt is not sound advice.




Going without credit cards for 2 or 3 years MAY help someone but it is not gauranteed. People need to educate themselves financially... whether they are in debt or not. This is not something that is taught at school... tho it should be!

Behavior modification mixed with education and experience will help to place anybody in a better situation. When a client enters into a debt settlement program they have to go through the program without using their credit cards. This is a form of behavior modification. The client will get used to the idea that they need money to pay for the things that they want.

When entering a debt consolidation program, this is not the case. Consolidation does not have ANY program in place to modify the behavior patterns of their clients. All debt consolidation will teach is that you can shift your debt load around to try and obtain the lowest interest rate. So keep racking up the debt load. The interest rate will always be low as long as you can consolidate.




The good news is that, unlike bankruptcy, once you have completed the credit counseling program, the lenders will not care that you were once in it. The mark will still be there but the debt is gone and they just dont care.

When you use consumer credit counseling (funded by creditors) then you will receive a mark on your account that says "TPA" which stands for third party assistance. This tells the creditors that you are unable to take care of your own financial situation and that a third party had to intervene. Even after the account is paid off it will be looked upon negatively by creditors. They DO care!




There is no way to determine how much a certain mark is going to affect EVERYONES score. There are TOO MANY variables. For example:

Lets say I have a 600 FICO score. Lets say that this was made up on ONE account. By Superiors admission here, he says that if that one account goes late, my score will drop about 30 points. Maybe....

Heres the other hand:

Lets say I have a 600 FICO score. However, lets say that this was made up of 100 different credit accounts. Now, if that same account went late, do you REALLY think it will have as much of an effect as in Example A???

C'mon... please.... to claim that someone knows this and that it applies to EVERYONE is just ignorant.


There are too many variables to determine exactly how your FICO will be affected, but these numbers are based on averages. Even YOU are aware that an average is a general number.






Still not entirely true... they are not the ONLY ones that do this. There are other settlement companies that offer credit restoration for their clients.


Other debt settlement companies may offer credit restoration at the end of their program, but they charge more for it. Superior does not. We offer it as part of the program with no additional fees for this service. We may not profit as much as other companies, but the quality is more important than the money.




To go and publically spew all this cr@p (sorry) in a forum like this is just shooting yourself in the foot. I would not recommend Superior Debt Relief to anyone looking for a debt settlement company solely based on their representation.



Don't come on here ranting about how I'm posting "cr@p" and then spew out your own. We both hit some good points, and I think that's the point of these forums. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're on the negative side for sure. To dispute is one thing, but to come out and call a post "cr@p" and "BS" is just plain rude.

Fair and final warning: Name calling by either side is far from a professional presentation of fact or opinion.

Superior, your first post here was a blatant advertising and users saw it. So you've got to humbly take a small lick for that - and understand that users will see that as a bias... but let's start a new leaf.

If this thread continues professionally, it will remain open. Otherwise, we'll apologize to the asker, drastically edit it, and close it.

Why would you advise somebody to put their house on the line to take care of old credit cards? I agree that it requires a complete analysis of their financial situation to give a QUALITY recommendation, but this is a forum. To generally state that it is a good idea to put up property to take care of unsecured debt is not sound advice.

Just as generally suggesting to not do it is not sound advice. There are a number of very valid reasons one could convert unsecured debt to secured. The main reason is the lowering of interest rates. Generally secured loans are much cheaper then unsecured. By converting, the debtor can either pay down the loans faster or reduce monthly payments.


Behavior modification mixed with education and experience will help to place anybody in a better situation. When a client enters into a debt settlement program they have to go through the program without using their credit cards. This is a form of behavior modification.

This has merit. Just about any program to reduce debt will fail if the debtor does not restrict their use of credit. But just because a debtor chooses to use debt consolidation rather than debt settlement, doesn't mean they won't be employing some behavior mod.


Other debt settlement companies may offer credit restoration at the end of their program, but they charge more for it. Superior does not. We offer it as part of the program with no additional fees for this service. We may not profit as much as other companies, but the quality is more important than the money.


This is where you lose people. Its one thing to answer questions and offer advice, its another when you use that to promote your own service. As soon as you do that, it becomes more of an ad then help.

If you're a financial planner, and you recommend that somebody trade their unsecured debt for secured debt, then you are asking them to put up property to take care of unsecured debt loads. Why would you advise somebody to put their house on the line to take care of old credit cards? I agree that it requires a complete analysis of their financial situation to give a QUALITY recommendation, but this is a forum. To generally state that it is a good idea to put up property to take care of unsecured debt is not sound advice.

I did not generally state that this is a good idea. However, for some people, it IS in their best interest... just like for some people, bankruptcy is in their best interest... just like debt settlement, credit counseling, or just better budgeting. No option (excpet maybe debt elimination) is an all out bad idea. The point was that there is no cookie cutter answer. It is all dependent on their specific situation.

The problem with most companies out there is that they don't care what is in the clients best interest. How many BK lawyers help people file BK JUST because they qualify... a lot of 'em! Heck, how else would they make their Lexus payments, right?



Behavior modification mixed with education and experience will help to place anybody in a better situation. When a client enters into a debt settlement program they have to go through the program without using their credit cards. This is a form of behavior modification. The client will get used to the idea that they need money to pay for the things that they want.

When entering a debt consolidation program, this is not the case. Consolidation does not have ANY program in place to modify the behavior patterns of their clients. All debt consolidation will teach is that you can shift your debt load around to try and obtain the lowest interest rate. So keep racking up the debt load. The interest rate will always be low as long as you can consolidate.


Exactly right. Consolidation allows much more room for falling back into the same situation. And you're right... going through settlement will force the clients to learn to get by without using their credit cards. But so does bankruptcy. So would it be wise to advise BK to everyone because they will have to go through a period without the luxury of credit cards?



When you use consumer credit counseling (funded by creditors) then you will receive a mark on your account that says "TPA" which stands for third party assistance. This tells the creditors that you are unable to take care of your own financial situation and that a third party had to intervene. Even after the account is paid off it will be looked upon negatively by creditors. They DO care!


Right and yet, there is no raflection of that mark in your FICO or Beacon score. They stopped using that as a factor in your score YEARS ago.

Why would a lender see it as a negative after the program is done and the debt is paid off? The debt is paid and in agreement with both the creditor and debtor.

Speak with some mortgage lenders and see what they say. You'll see.



There are too many variables to determine exactly how your FICO will be affected, but these numbers are based on averages. Even YOU are aware that an average is a general number.


But its just not safe to give out these numbers in a way that people will think, "Oh, if I do this, this is what will happen." The settlement world is not set in stone. While I agree that the negative impact of settlements is temporary... it is still negative. Yes, we have seen scores JUMP back immensely after a settlement program but I would never advertise those numbers like it was something to be expected. That's just misleading.



Other debt settlement companies may offer credit restoration at the end of their program, but they charge more for it. Superior does not. We offer it as part of the program with no additional fees for this service. We may not profit as much as other companies, but the quality is more important than the money.


Yes, some do... some don't. Coming in here calling yourself the best or the only company that does this or that is just bad advertising. You can't claim to be the best because you just don't know. You can't claim to be the ONLY one that doesn't charge simply because you aren't. There are others. True, not MANY do, but there are others.

And yes, the quality is MUCH more important than the money. That is where so many settlement companies go wrong. I have had too many run ins with people that have been completely screwed over by settlement companies. Now, don't get me wrong... I think debt settlement is one of the BEST ways for people do find debt relief. But it has to be done right.




Don't come on here ranting about how I'm posting "cr@p" and then spew out your own. We both hit some good points, and I think that's the point of these forums. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you're on the negative side for sure. To dispute is one thing, but to come out and call a post "cr@p" and "BS" is just plain rude.

You're right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you cannot convey an opinion as fact. Especially when you are obviously here representing a company. You stated things that are simply untrue. No opinions about.

If I said that my company sells something that everyone needs... "Boundary Alarms" for your ships because the Earth is flat and you don't want to fall of the edge... you could rightfully follow up with saying, "thats incorrect, the Earth is NOT flat." Right?

I do apologize for coming off a bit strong and rude. Like I said, I have had too much experience with settlement companies that lie to their clients so they can collect fees and get the clients sued in the end... and usually end up filing BK anyway.

Companies that offer 40 month programs to employed people with homes who have 100% of their debt with CitiFinancial and MBNA (Texas residents may not be included in this example). That kind of stuff is ridiculous and gets people in a LOT of trouble financially. And before the client realizes that they are getting sued and getting their wages garnished, they have already paid the non-refundable retainer fees. Oops... too bad for them.

These people may as well go start up a Debt Elimination company. At least there is more money in the rip-off.

~DrJ~

I did not generally state that this is a good idea. However, for some people, it IS in their best interest... just like for some people, bankruptcy is in their best interest... just like debt settlement, credit counseling, or just better budgeting. No option (excpet maybe debt elimination) is an all out bad idea. The point was that there is no cookie cutter answer. It is all dependant on thier specific situation.

The problem with most companies out there is that they dont care what is in the clients best interest. How many BK lawyers help people file BK JUST because they qualify... a lot of 'em! Heck, how else would they make their Lexus payments, right?

At last, we're starting to see eye to eye. I agree that there are a lot of companies out there that push their services before considering the best interest of the client. This leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the client, and they may never choose that particular program again. This is unfortunate for those of us that want nothing more than to help those in need.



Exactly right. Consolidation allows much more room for falling back into the same situation. And youre right... going thru settlement will force the clients to learn to get by without using their credit cards. But so does bankruptcy. So would it be wise to advise BK to everyone because they will have to go thru a period without the luxury of credit cards?

This argument can obviously be used to slam ANY program available. Behavior modification comes in many different forms depending on the program. It shouldn't be used as an end-all to choosing the right program for you, but there are those that need modification and will recognize that fact. When it comes to financial matters not everyone is able to learn simply by reading a document. They have to experience the situation in order to understand it.



But its just not safe to give out these numbers in a way that people will think, "Oh, if I do this, this is what will happen." The settlement world is not set in stone. While I agree that the negative impact of settlements is temporary... it is still negative. Yes, we have seen scores JUMP back immensely after a settlement program but I would never advertise those numbers like it was something to be expected. Thats just misleading.

Again, this is based on averages. The financial industry is an ever-changing industry. No financial planner, loan officer, debt arbitraitor, or lawyer can really guarantee anything as far as how your credit score will be impacted. They can only tell you what they've seen happen in the past.



Yes, some do... some dont. Coming in here calling yourself the best or the only company that does this or that is just bad advertising. You can't claim to be the best because you just dont know. You can't claim to be the ONLY one that doesnt charge simply becuase you arent. There are others. True, not MANY do, but there are others.

Not much I can say about that. If I say "We are the only" then there's a new settlement company starting the next day that does as well.



And yes, the quality is MUCH more important than the money. That is where so many settlement companies go wrong. I have had too many run ins with people that have been completely screwed over by settlement companies. Now, dont get me wrong... I think debt settlement is one of the BEST ways for people do find debt relief. But it has to be done right.

Agreed... there are a lot of fly-by-night settlement companies out there that make a mess of everything that they touch. This is unfortunate as settlement is truly a great debt relief option. It's not for everybody, but a good settlement company will be able to recognize that and advise the clients of that fact and then work to steer them in a better direction. It has to be done right.



I do apologize for coming off a bit stong and rude. Like I said, I have had too much experience with settlement companies that lie to their clients so they can collect fees and get the clients sued in the end... and usually end up filing BK anyway.

Unfortunately you are right about this as well. I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard that so and so said it was a good idea and now I'm worse off than I've ever been. And it's not always that settlement wasn't the right option, but it was handled incorrectly and hence the lawsuit in the end. I hope you can realize that not every settlement company is out to obtain clients, and that there are those who actually care about the needs of those who contact them for help.

I think we're starting to see this more clearly than we did initially. I hope that anybody reading this will see that we are all trying to help in whatever way we can. Financial messes are difficult to clean in many situations, and there is no absolutely correct answer for every situation.

My recommendations:

1) Research every company that you let touch your financial situation.
2) Contact multiple companies within the same industry to find the differences in what they tell you and how the program works.
3) Have every company that you talk to go over your various options in full detail. Knowledge is power, and lack of knowledge will hurt you unless you're extremely lucky.
4) Trust your instincts.

Well put. I apologize for the initial slam. I am glad we are both starting to see eye to eye.

I have helped a lot of people on this forum with debt settlement and other options as well. I just wanted to make sure that any of them or any others reading these posts get the WHOLE jist of what is being said.

We work directly with debt settlement companies, mortgage sompanies, credit counselors, bankrupcty firms, etc. Our main goal is to deliver the truth about these options and how they can help or hurt someone's situation. So I suppose it's a natural reflex for me to ensure there is no misleading salesy stuff posted :) lol

Now as someone that offers just debt settlement and takes a bit of a stand against debt consolidation loans... How do you feel about a combo debt consolidation loan/settlement program? In other words, using equity in a home to fully fund a settlement program?

1) Research every company that you let touch your financial situation.
2) Contact multiple companies within the same industry to find the differences in what they tell you and how the program works.
3) Have every company that you talk to go over your various options in full detail. Knowledge is power, and lack of knowledge will hurt you unless you're extremely lucky.

Dead on. http://www.jackson8.com/images/thumb.gif

Now as someone that offers just debt settlement and takes a bit of a stand against debt consolidation loans.... How do you feel about a combo debt consolidation loan/settlement program? In other words, using equity in a home to fully fund a settlement program?

I have talked to several people that want to take this route. I advise them against it initially. Even though they are saving money and settling accounts with a lump sum, they are still trading an unsecured debt for a secured debt. While in some situations this may be a good idea, I do not push this option. It eliminates the behavior modification and makes it too easy to abuse the system.

There are times when I advise clients to enter certain accounts into the settlement program while entering other accounts into a consolidation program, but I generally try not to combine the two.

Your options really depend on what your desired outcome is. A fico of 700 is good and any program will have an effect on your score. However, with your debt load, worrying about you credit score for while resolving this debt is like worrying about your lawn while your house is burning down. Be careful and do your research. I do know who Lawgitix is and just keep in mind that they are a debt settlement company with an attorney Network. This means that if you get sued they may simply refer you to an attorney in their network and additional fees may apply. There's no pain free way to get out of this type of debt. If you have a good debt settlement company behind you you can emerge much stronger financially than you are now. Be sure that the debt settlement company looks at your statements before providing an estimate. Spend time letting them get to know your individual situation and do not ever sign up with a company that does not have a strict qualifying process in place.

Thanks for the advice - We haven't made a decision yet. I know we need to do something, but basically just living month to month while making minimum payments. We got ourselves in a huge mess which is I know is our problem and we have to try to dig out of this. I never thought in a million years we would be where we are at today!! Thanks again!

This is overdue, but THANKS TO EVERYONE who has responded to my post! I really appreciate the good advice, comments, suggestions etc...

I enjoy watching a good claw hammer fight as much as the next guy. On my scorecard I would give the win to DrJizzle. On previous posts I have mentioned Consumer Credit Counseling Service, a subsidiary of Money Management International, which is a NON-PROFIT community service organization. In my years of doing mortgages I have referred a fair number of people to CCCS, with satisfying results. My question for the people who work for Debt Settlement companies is: how do the consumer paid fees charged by the FOR PROFIT companies compare to those charged by a non-profit such as CCCS? I would imagine that the splashy TV ads aired by the for-profits are not cheap. As yet I have had no response or direct comment to my past inquiries.

Well, obviously there are more fees paid by the consumer in the for-profit settlement companies. But what you have to look at is the total cost to be debt free.

If you had $30,000 in debt and I said that I could make that debt disappear if you paid me $10,000, would you do it? Sure, the $10,000 is more than anyone else is charging but I'M making the debt just go away... so your total cost is only $10,000, right?

So looking at CCCS, you cost on $30,000 would be $30,000 plus maybe... 10% interest, plus a $30 "donation" each month, paying 2.5% of your debt for a payment on a 4 yr 1 month program...

$30,000 (debt)
$6,644 (interest)
$1,479 (donations)
------------------
$38,123 (total cost)

Now, with debt settlement... $30,000 total debt... lets say a pretty tough mix of creditors so 50% settlements plus the standard 15% in fees.

$15,000 (50% of the total debt)
$0 (interest paid)
$4,500 (15% fees)
-------------------
$19,500 (total cost)

AND... where 2.5% of the debt ($750, in this example) is a pretty LOW payment for CCCS (which would result in a 4 yr 1 month program), the SAME payment in debt settlement would result in a 2 yr 2 month program!

So, the numbers ALWAYS work out better... that's no comparison... the nly real deciding factor is the risk factor. Can one afford a short enough program to outweigh the risk factor? If not, settlement may not be the way to go... unless of course, they are judgement proof :D

CCCS though typically non-profit are still funded. It's called fair share and is a percentage of the amount collected for the creditors. It use to be as high as 15% but has been cut drastically recently. I've heard the number is more around 8-10%. Also, many cccs companies charge a monthly maintenance fee of between $20-$39 a month (but not all charge a monthly). It's hard to compare since not all debt settlement companies have the same fee structure. Some require an up front payment that can be as high as 8-10% of the debt and then a percentage of what's saved. Where I work it's a flat 15% of the debt. So speaking on what my company does the back end "fair share" for cccs can sometimes be as much as 20% of the debt when dealing with lower debt loads and as low as 12% or the debt for debts over $100k. Either way you look at it someone gets paid which is fine. I personally would not want a volunteer handling my finances. I hope that helps with your question.

I would imagine that the splashy TV ads aired by the for-profits are not cheap.
This is true. Advertising is by far the largest expense for any for-profit company. When you weigh the income against the payouts, you're lucky if you break even. The hardest part is targeting your market, and if you miss your target then you get loads of people either looking for loans or needing help with their taxes. There is so much prequalifying for each individual client, and many people that call in are better off using another program for their debt help, such as CCCS or consolidation. We will actually point our clients away from our services if it benefits them financially, which is more than I can say for most settlement companies.

With so many factors to consider when bringing accounts in the door, you have to pay higher amounts for the specific market targeting. Unless you want to just run TV ads and bring everybody and their dog into your program whether they need it or not. Fine by me. I get a lot of clients from other CCCS, consolidation, and settlement companies that do a lousy job.

I would like to thank all the people who responded to my questions. We all agree that the motivation for a creditor's willingness to settle for less than what is owed, is: that it is better to get 50% of something than to get 100% of nothing. I would imagine that the personnel at CCCS have the same tools at their disposal as the for-profit people; the question being, who is more proficient at using those tools? Correct? My as yet unsubstantiated belief is that with their lower costs, the non-profits should be able to leave more money on the table that can be distributed to the creditors, thereby reducing the total expenditure by the client.

Im not sure I am following what you are saying here but if I am...

You're saying that CCCS charges less fees... so if they negotiated the debt instead of just reducing the interest, then they could offer a cheaper service to the client??

No, not at all. You see, just because CCCS is a "non-profit" doesn't mean that they work for free. That little donation is not how they make their money... that's just a bonus. Like kjackson said, they make their money on the back end... through "fair share" payments.

Creditors pay credit counselors these fair share payments so that they will sign up clients to pay 100% of the debt, plus the agree (reduced) interest rate.

If they credit counselors negotiated the debt, rather than sticking to the agreed upon plan, they would not get their "fair share" and they wouldn't make any money.

And no matter how "Saintly" "NON-PROFIT" companies try to make themselves out to be... they are not working for free. They get paid for their work just like the rest of us do.

I don't know anout elsewhere in the country but here in Southern California the t.v. adds are all credit counseling ads. I have yet to see a debt settlement ad.

I don't know anout elsewhere in the country but here in Southern California the t.v. adds are all credit counseling ads. I have yet to see a debt settlement ad.
It is rare. I actually haven't seen one yet, but I've heard of other companies running them. We've found that because of the level of market targeting that needs to go into the program that it's better to target keywords in search engines. The trick is to avoid a bunch of calls and leads full of people looking for tax debt relief, student loan debt help, and wanting to refinance their car or house. Although we have affiliates that we can direct this type of traffic to, it doesn't help us directly.

DrJizzle; so what you are saying is that CCCS's prime goal is to sign up consumers in a plan to pay off 100% of the debt, even though interest charges might be reduced or waived altogether. Correct? I have always been aware that CCCS has received financial support from the creditors. If CCCS's purpose is to get the best deal for the creditor, rather than their client (the consumer), I would consider that to be an egregious conflict of interest; agreed? I think I will contact CCCS and ask them that question point blank. It would be sad for me to find out that my faith in CCCS for these many years has been misplaced ( just like finding out that the Easter Bunny has died).

DrJizzle; so what you are saying is that CCCS's prime goal is to sign up consumers in a plan to pay off 100% of the debt, even though interest charges might be reduced or waived altogether. Correct? I have always been aware that CCCS has received financial support from the creditors. If CCCS's purpose is to get the best deal for the creditor, rather than their client (the consumer), I would consider that to be an egregious conflict of interest; agreed? I think I will contact CCCS and ask them that question point blank. It would be sad for me to find out that my faith in CCCS for these many years has been misplaced ( just like finding out that the Easter Bunny has died).
You are correct. CCCS programs have the best interest of the creditor in mind. They are funded by the creditors, work for the creditors, and that's the bottom line. I could go on for days about the horror stories I hear from clients that use CCCS and end up NOT out of debt. CCCS has the lowest success rate of any debt relief program available, other than blatant scams. Sorry that this has struck such a hard blow at your faith in these programs, but there you have it.

Yes, Superior is dead on. Credit counseling is funded by and works for the creditors. And that really is the truth.

Credit counseling was started some 50+ years ago by the banks and financial institutions to help those who couldn't make their monthly payments and save them from bankruptcy.

It wasn't meant to be a conflict in interest... but more so, your "friendly creditors just trying to help you out" (lol). Many people feel it is a conflict in interest but that is in part due to the misrepresentation of these companies.

Credit counseling can work if you have the right company. I have suggested credit counseling and enroll quite a few people into it myself. I can't say that it is the best thing for people but for some people, it is. Like I said, it depends on the situation.


DrD... being in the mortgage world, what is your take on the effects of CCCS vs debt settlement?

We also target internet services for a large portion of our clients. Our view on staying out of TV and radio is pretty basic. We only want clients that need us and that qualify. TV and radio could open up the floodgates of every Tom **** and Harry that just wants to skate out on their debt. I routinely turn down a good 60% of those who apply. Our industry has enough of the bad guys and we need to try and represent the reality of debt settlement as program for those who truly need it.

Dr Jizzle: In the past we often used the payment history provided by CCCS to show that the borrower was now creditworthy, even though their credit scores had gone to hell in a handbasket. While a person is in CCCS their scores will suffer because the creditor is receiving less than the scheduled payment, and as a consequece the account continues to show in a delinquent status (because of the automated reporting). On government loans (FHA and VA) where the human underwriter is allowed to over rule the computer, this has been useful. On Conventional loans which are very FICO driven, and the human underwriter is limited in their ability to over rule HAL (as in 2001), CCCS has been of limited value.

In cases I have seen where a Borrower has been offered a lesser settlement amount, the creditor has demanded full payment of the lesser amount NOW, not piecemeal. So you guys have the ability to get the creditor to settle for less, AND accept monthly payments, correct? It would follow that if the total funds due from the client were less; the repayment period would be shorter; and the FICO healing process could begin sooner.

As soon as I confirm some of these things with CCCS, I shall get a very large crow, and eat it live on this web site.

Not typically. Usually, the client is saving the funds to settle with. So the actual settlement isn't made until there is enough money in the clients account to pay it off. However, in some cases, "structed settlements" can be made. This is where a settlement is offered with the ability to pay it off is payments. These are usually higher settlement amounts than a lump sum settlement.

Whatever you do, don't use Lawgistix.

They have changed names 3 times in 2 years so they can keep ripping off people. From 2nd chance credit to forecast financial to lawgistix to some new ascerio name.

They said they would reduce my debt by 60% guaranteed, now I have 12 judgements and I am being garnished.

They don't return calls, they are rude and if I were you I would stay far away from them.

They took my money and never did anything.

Don't believe me? Now they have a do it yourself program they charge 1000 for.