Hello:

An 8 year old boy just killed is dad and another guy in Arizona.

Should he be tried as an adult? Do you think a child of 8 can understand the ramifications of his actions?? If you do, why shouldn't children vote? Do you think the yes's and no's will break down along partisan lines?

If you think he should be tried as an adult, because murder is an "adult" crime, please tell me what a "juvenile" crime is. If you come up with any, should everybody charged with "juvenile" crimes be tried in juvenile court? How would you determine what crime is "adult", and what crime isn't?

I really want to know.

excon

I do not think he should be tried as an adult. If he is - does he go to the adult prison? I can't even imagine that. He definitely needs/deserves a harsh punishment - but not to be tried as an adult. He's 8!
I don't think he could understand fully what he has done. Take a look at society and what is available to children. There are video games out there that are exteremely violent, but each time you kill someone in the game - they are alive and well the next time you play.

I think the juvenile system shouldn't be set up for "juvenile crimes" but for those that are juveniles. Children.
Now, if you have a 16 year old doing what this boy did - I may feel differently, because I think a 16 year old is able to understand exactly what he did.

You have to wonder - if this boy spends the next 10 or so years in a juvenile prison - what is he going to come out as? Is he lost forever? Is he going to end up in the adult system eventually?

No, of course not. I can hardly believe the authorities there are trying, I mean what idiot would want to try an 8-year-old as an adult? Do you really think the vote might come down on partisan lines?

I mean what idiot would want to try an 8-year-old as an adult? Do you really think the vote might come down on partisan lines?Hello Steve:

Uhhh, the idiots they HAVE in Arizona, like Sheriff Arpio, who makes his inmates wear pink underwear and eat green baloney, while they're sweating their butts off in their tents, OUTSIDE, in the 120 degree Sonora Desert. People like that.

Partisan lines?? Sure. Who, but a bleeding heart would try to save a killer?? Seeee? I knew you was a closet liberal.

excon

Exy,

LOL speech a closet liberal.. lol lol lol. That is FUNNY!

I think it is horrible to even THINK of charging the 8 year old boy as an adult. My heart goes out to this boy and his family. I HAVE boys.. I adore boys... this whole thing makes me ill. Something went very wrong here... but trying the CHILD as an adult is so inappropriate. He needs help. Not jail. Not even juvenile prison. He is a so little.. he will be lost forever. The whole thing breaks by heart... (yes, I have one) :)

A closet liberal, LOL. Hardly, but I do have at least a shred of common sense and decency. I think it's more you guys don't want to give us credit for having any.

I'd say there is a 90% chance the boy was abused. Either that or a fuse blew .

Hello again, closeted libs:

So, tell me then. If an 8 year old is too young, at WHAT age should a child be charged as an adult? DOES it have to do with his AGE, or his CRIME?

Come on. You can engage me. I'm friendly.

excon

PS> And, I haven't heard you chime in with an opinion, tom, except to state the obvious.

Hello again:

Ok, I won't keep you in suspense. We used to put people under 18 into the juvenile system, because we believed that children didn't have the capacity to understand the ramifications of their acts. It had nothing to do with the crime. It had everything to do with their age. It worked fine.

Then, sometime around the early 70's, when CRIME became an issue, and SOFT on crime became an anathema, we began charging children as adults... In my view, it was done strictly for political purposes.

It's time we ALL became the bleeding heart liberals that we once were.

excon

I knew where you were going with this line of questions.

No I don't think a 17 year old gangbanger should be tried in juvenile court.
No ;I don't think an 8 year old is capable of making adult decisions.

No ,I don't think that because a gangbanger can make adult decisions regarding the taking of a life and should be held accountable as an adult for murder ,that he is by extension adult in other aspects of his life .

As far as an exact year of deliniation ,I'm willing to go with what society has established

I think it has more to do with circumstances. I bet you know what I mean.

Hello again, Steve:

I think I do, but why don't you want to spell it out? I suspect you mean that if the crime was particularly brutal, THEN you could really slam the kid... What if it turns out that THIS 8 year old was particularly brutal in THIS killing.

You also refused to state an age limit. Or you'd rather make those judgments on a case by case basis... Come on, Steve. You can tell me.

excon

I am sitting here thinking of my 7 year old boy. I can't imagine holding him accountable for something like this in an adult prison...
I think of my 11 year old daughter, I can see she has a mind and has the wrong and right factor, I would ALMOST be able to see her closer to getting tried as an adult.
My oldest boy is 14 and holy crap yes, they know what the heck is going on. BUT that isn't to say he needs to be in a jail with older inmates, teaching him the ropes and learning things he just SHOULDN'T know at that age.
As far as your case by case, I say yes, all kids are different, there are terrible different reasons or no good reasons at all why kids do these sorts of things. A case by case basis sounds about right if you ask me. I know all of my kids have been at different levels at the same ages so a straight up law just doesn't make sense at this point.
I also agree that there should be separate institutions where these kids can be handled in a positive manner towards getting the help they need to come out of whatever it is they are in.
Liberal or whatever, none of us want to see a kid or a family go through this and they deserve the help they need. It saddens me to know of it at all to tell you the truth.

Nope... it's simple! According to child psychology studies... his brain is not fully developed by no means. Therefore he doesn't have the brain capacity to think like an adult.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13child.html?em






A Phoenix defense lawyer, Karyn Klausner, who is a former municipal judge, said that for the boy to be tried as an adult, the tests must show that he is competent to understand the charges against him, has a basic understanding of the court process and is able to assist in his defense. In addition, prosecutors must prove that he cannot be rehabilitated by the time he turns 18 and leaves the juvenile justice system.




NO, because of the above quoted conditions.

What does partisanship have to do with this?


It is tragic. In my opinion, I suspect the boy was being abused.

Hello again, closeted libs:

So, tell me then. If an 8 year old is too young, at WHAT age should a child be charged as an adult? DOES it have to do with his AGE, or his CRIME?

Come on. You can engage me. I'm friendly.

excon

PS> And, I haven't heard you chime in with an opinion, tom, except to state the obvious.
I don't see it being as simple as age and crime. There are all shades of gray in between that should determine whether they should be tried as adult.

Hello spy:

I disagree. When you leave it to a prosecutor, he's running for governor, so he'd charge a 3 year old if he thought it could get him elected.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I think I do, but why don't you want to spell it out? I suspect you mean that if the crime was particularly brutal, THEN you could really slam the kid.... What if it turns out that THIS 8 year old was particularly brutal in THIS killing.

You also refused to state an age limit. Or you'd rather make those judgments on a case by case basis... Come on, Steve. You can tell me.

excon

I guess I was wrong that you would know what I mean. Circumstances like the development of the child. No way, no how would an 8-year-old have the comprehension levels of an adult. I don't think you can put some magic age figure on it so I think you have to judge on a case by case basis, but certainly not 8-year-olds. Times have changed, ex, isn't that what you keep telling us about drugs and gay marriage? I think we probably have a lot more youth running around with guns, gang banging, forced to be the adult in the family, etc. now than 25 years ago, don't you?

Hello spy:

I disagree. When you leave it to a prosecutor, he's running for governor, so he'd charge a 3 year old if he thought it could get him elected.

excon

I was talking as if the prosecuter was a sensible person.
Maybe he's a robot...

I'd say there is a 90% chance the boy was abused.

That was my first thought too.
I don't think an 8 year old should be tried as an adult.

I'm an "out" liberal. :)

Good question Exy,

No, I don't think an 8 year old child should be tried as an adult.

I have a 10 year old son. Yes he knows right from wrong, but because he's 10 he doesn't always follow what he knows is right. Would he kill hubby and me, no, because he comes from a stable home, he's loved, he's not abused, he's mentally healthy.

There are people that are disturbed no matter how they are raised. Look at Jeffrey Dahmer, his upbringing was very normal but he turned out to be a serial killer. After he was arrested his father thought back to his childhood and yes, there were signs that he was disturbed. 20/20 hindsight is a b#tch, isn't it?

I don't know the case that you are talking about, but yes, I'm sure that things in that home weren't good and the little boy snapped, or maybe we do have another Jeffrey Dahmer on our hands.

So then, how do we determine who gets tried as an adult? Personally, if you aren't old enough to vote, then I don't think you're old enough to be tried as an adult. No gray area there. Under 18 you're a minor, over 18 you're an adult. That's my opinion.

If a child of 8 commits a murder then obviously that child needs psychological help more than he needs to be behind bars. I would hope that they would make sure that this boy gets the help he needs.

Should he be punished? Yes. But what punishment is suitable for an 8 year old child that kills? I don't have the answer to that.

I was watching CNN last night and they were talking about this story. They questioned the 8 year old without a parent (obviously the dad is out of the question) or lawyer present and no one read him his Miranda rights. I always thought and I could be wrong but by the police not reading him his rights and questioning a minor with out a parent or lawyer there make their case fall apart?

Hello spit:

I think you're right. Who says the Arizona cops are smarter than the 8 year old? This, of course, is the state that boasts the toughest sheriff in the world, where he makes his inmates wear pink underwear and feeds them green baloney.

excon

I think I saw that guy on TV don't all of the inmates sleep in a big tent outside?

Good question Exy,

So then, how do we determine who gets tried as an adult? Personally, if you aren't old enough to vote, then I don't think you're old enough to be tried as an adult. No gray area there. Under 18 you're a minor, over 18 you're an adult. That's my opinion.

.

Alty,

I completely agree with you. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal but I think this is the best way to deal with KIDS that commit crimes. I also don't believe this kid needs jail of any kind. He is 8, a mere babe, he has no father and the boy is troubled and needs help.

I think I saw that guy on TV don't all of the inmates sleep in a big tent outside?Hello spit:

Yup, in the 120 degree Arizona desert... Been there - done that.

excon

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal but....Hello again, T:

You're not?? Could have fooled me. Anybody who thinks a killer needs help instead of the chair has Got to be a bleeding heart.

Pretty soon you're going to be throwing over all the other conservative crap stuck in the nooks and cranny's of your brain.

excon

The child is 8 years old. That says it all. He's not even old enough to cross the street by himself, let alone be tried as an adult. Heck, he's not even a teen, not even close.

Personally, all I want to do is take that kid into my home, give him the love he obviously needs, give him stability, kindness, and everything else he's missed out on in his short 8 years on this earth.

He does need help, obviously, but jail? Do we want to turn this kid into a criminal for life? Put an 8 year old in jail and you reap what you sow. There's still time to save this kid.

This is so sad, for everyone involved.

Ex,

DREAM ON DUDE! LOL LOL

Hey I don't think just ANY killer needs help and not jail.. but those under 18 are still kids. Their brains aren't fully formed either. I have a heart for kids.. what can I say?? But I am TOUGH as nails when it comes to the adults... scary tough. LOL

Classy, you're a big softie, I know you are. ;)

Altenweg, I was intrigued by your comment about Jeffrey Dahmer, so I went and read a little about him. I think his childhood may have been normal, sadly so, but not healthy. He sounds like he had an abusive father and he was cutting up animals as a child...

I could be wrong, but I think anyone who can pass as normal--get jobs, join the military--and does stuff like this has almost certainly not had a healthy childhood. I remember reading a European study along time ago that said that while a tendency to non violent criminality appeared to have a genetic component, violent crime did not. That could be wrong, too. But I do think upbringing--especially abusive parents--have a huge effect on personality and behavior.

The big question is whether kids who have been subjected to this can be rescued and when, and also why some kids subjected to abuse grow up to be decent people. What makes some people so resilient to trauma? If we could bottle that, we'd be rich.

I think the thing that makes me wonder when I was watching the interview on CNN they asked the 8 year old why he shot the dad twice. The 8 year old said he shot his dad twice because the first shot didn't kill him and he (the dad) was suffering. How does an 8 year old know that?

My kids understood suffering at that age and younger. They still try not to kill or hurt anything. I am not sure the older one would even kill an ant...

I actual think that's a hopeful sign for the boy. He's probably not a psychopath with no empathy.

Actually, Asking, Jeffrey Dahmer's father was not abusive, just largely absent from his sons life, as was his birth mother. He was molested as a child, by a neighbor. His father travelled a lot, and his mother moved away with her other son, leaving Jeffrey with his dad. Most psychologists think that Jeffrey's problems stem from being alone so much in his life. He had abandonment issues, which is why he kept the bodies of his victims for a long time after killing them. He even ate his victims because he said it made him feel closer to them.

I actually read the book written by Lionel Dahmer "A father's story" which is Jeffrey's fathers account of his life. Of coure, it's from Lionel's point of view, and I doubt he'd admit abusing his son, but from what I read, he loved his child and was as good a father as he knew how to be, which sadly wasn't good enough.

Here's a quote from Lionel (Jeff's dad)

"I could not imagine how he had become such a ruined soul. For the first time I no longer believed that my efforts and resources alone would be enough to save my son. There was something missing in Jeff. We call it a 'conscience.' That had either died or had never been alive in the first place."

I don't think that this 8 year old in the news is a psychopath, I think he's just a sad, abused, scared little boy. I could be wrong, but really, what needs to happen to make an 8 year old kill? Something must have been extremely wrong in that house.

I really hope he gets the help he so desperately needs, and I know that help would not be available in prison.

8 year old are smarter than you think. Last year a 9 year old stab her godsister in the chest because she got mad at her, I forget why she was mad at her, but the girl that got stab died instantly and the 9 year old wasn't even charged because she was too young.

Hello again, my friends (yes I did learn that from John McCain):

So, you don't think an 8 year old should be tried as an adult... Cool. Then how about taking a shot at the second part of my question.

Does trying a child as an adult have to do with his AGE or his CRIME??

excon

Actually, Asking, Jeffrey Dahmer's father was not abusive, just largely absent from his sons life, as was his birth mother. He was molested as a child, by a neighbor. His father travelled alot, and his mother moved away with her other son, leaving Jeffrey with his dad. Most psychologists think that Jeffrey's problems stem from being alone so much in his life. He had abandonment issues, which is why he kept the bodies of his victims for a long time after killing them. He even ate his victims because he said it made him feel closer to them.

I actually read the book written by Lionel Dahmer "A father's story" which is Jeffrey's fathers account of his life. Of coure, it's from Lionel's point of view, and I doubt he'd admit abusing his son, but from what I read, he loved his child and was as good a father as he knew how to be, which sadly wasn't good enough.

...
I don't think that this 8 year old in the news is a psychopath, I think he's just a sad, abused, scared little boy. I could be wrong, but really, what needs to happen to make an 8 year old kill? Something must have been extremely wrong in that house.

Perhaps I took too much from the wikiepedia entry, which said his father "forced" him into the military. I thought that spoke volumes about Dahmer's boundaries (or lack of them) and his father too. But I will defer to your superior knowledge on this topic. In any case, it doesn't sound like a very happy or healthy childhood.

I agree with you completely about the current 8 year old.

Ex, I think it has to do with the crime. If the 8 year old stole soda and candy from a store we wouldn't even know about it or be talking about this. But since it is murder well here we are.

Exy,

For me it's his age. Yes, murder is a horrific crime, and no one should be allowed to get away with it. But, does an 8 year old child have the mental capacity to understand that his actions are wrong? Does an 8 year old child think and act like an adult?

My son is 10, and yes, he's smart, but he's still a child, he doesn't have the intelligence or brain capacity to act responsibly.

For example, as an adult I know that touching a lit candle isn't a good idea, it's hot, you'll burn yourself. Of course I taught my children that, they know that fire is hot, they know they shouldn't touch. Yesterday my son touched the candle and burned his finger. I asked him why he did it. His response "I don't know, I just thought I'd try it to see if it was really hot".

You can tell a child what's right and what's wrong, that doesn't mean that they truly understand.

He should be tried as a child, because that's what he is.

Does trying a child as an adult have to do with his AGE or his CRIME?????

To me, it's all age related.

I've never been clear why we have all these rules about not trying children as adults, and then make exceptions because they did something creepy.

If you want to punish 17 years olds like 30 year olds, then change the law and make them "adults." You can always make an exception in the direction of leniency if there are mitigating circumstances.

Eight is the age when children first begin to realize they are separate persons, not just an extension of their family, parents. It can be a tumultuous year as kids this age try to establish boundaries. But they are still deeply childish, not like a 12 year old, who can be quite adult if raised well.

But, now I'm curious. Why are you asking these questions?

Perhaps I took too much from the wikiepedia entry, which said his father "forced" him into the military. I thought that spoke volumes about Dahmer's boundaries (or lack of them) and his father too. But I will defer to your superior knowledge on this topic. In any case, it doesn't sound like a very happy or healthy childhood.

I agree with you completely about the current 8 year old.

You are right Asking, he did force his son into the military, but at that time he'd already been in trouble with the law for molesting a 13 year old boy. His father thought the military would set him on the right path, give him structure.

Sorry, I just find his life story very interesting. He was such a normal person on the outside, everyone was shocked when they found out what he'd done. Even at his trial he always remained calm, confessed to all his crimes, and took his punishment. There was no anger, no rage, yet his crimes where so horrible. I always marvelled at someone who could apper so normal yet be so abnormal.

It's scary to realize how fragile the human mind is. I do believe that he was predisposed to violence, that he just wasn't "wired" right. But, if his childhood had been different, would the outcome have also been different, or would he still have become a serial murderer? It's a scary thought, that everything we do when raising our children, has an effect on them later in life. How do we know we're doing everything right? After all, we are human, we make mistakes. What if we're making a huge mistake and end up with a child like Jeffrey Dahmer?

Maybe I should start my own thread on the topic, I'm hijacking poor excons thread. :(

Sorry Exy, I won't mention any more about Dahmer. My lip is zipped. ;)

To me, it's all age related.

I've never been clear why we have all these rules about not trying children as adults, and then make exceptions because they did something creepy.

If you want to punish 17 years olds like 30 year olds, then change the law and make them "adults." You can always make an exception in the direction of leniency if there are mitigating circumstances.

Eight is the age when children first begin to realize they are separate persons, not just an extension of their family, parents. It can be a tumultuous year as kids this age try to establish boundaries. But they are still deeply childish, not like a 12 year old, who can be quite adult if raised well.

But, now I'm curious. Why are you asking these questions?

I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I don't see why we even have age limits if we aren't going to use them. Why is it the law that someone isn't an adult until 18, but then we try an 8 year old as an adult? You can't have it both ways. Either you're a child in all regards, or an adult in all regards.

To me, it's all age related..... But, now I'm curious. Why are you asking these questions?Hello again, asking:

I ask, for the same reasons I ask ALL my questions here - to affect change.

I remember a time when we actually DID treat children as children. Then sometime around the 70's when "tough on crime" became the watchword of every politician of every stripe, things started to change. That's when we began our present quest to nowhere...

We, of course, started charging children as adults.. But, that's only part of the story. We started the drug war. We started mandatory sentences. We ended parole. We started tracking "sex offenders". We closed down "club fed". We threw away the idea of rehabilitation and adopted the idea of punishment. Building prisons became a "growth" industry.

I don't know if we're going to change anything... But, I ain't going to stop speaking out about the injustice of it.

excon

Hello again, asking:

I ask, for the same reasons I ask ALL my questions here - to affect change.

I remember a time when we actually DID treat children as children. Then sometime around the 70's when "tough on crime" became the watchword of every politician of every stripe, things started to change. That's when we began our present quest to nowhere...

We, of course, started charging children as adults.. But, that's only part of the story. We started the drug war. We started mandatory sentences. We ended parole. We started tracking "sex offenders". We closed down "club fed". We threw away the idea of rehabilitation and adopted the idea of punishment. Building prisons became a "growth" industry.

I dunno if we're gonna change anything.... But, I ain't gonna stop speaking out about the injustice of it.

excon

Well, I agree with you, so you are preaching to the choir (as it were). Not only are prisons a growth industry, they are now privatized and profit-driven. It's just wrong, wrong, wrong to give anyone a financial incentive to want another human being locked up.

I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I don't see why we even have age limits if we aren't going to use them. Why is it the law that someone isn't an adult until 18, but then we try an 8 year old as an adult? You can't have it both ways. Either you're a child in all regards, or an adult in all regards.

Yes! We all seem to be on the same page here...

So why do some people even consider trying children as adults? What is their motivation? What does a prosecutor get out of that?

I have no idea why anyone would want to send a child to an adult prison, or to prison period.

The prosecutors must get something out of it. Maybe they all secretly hate children. I don't know, but I really can't see a good reason to try a child as an adult.

Someone needs to slap these people upside the head. Anyone care to join me, I'm all in!

Speaking of prison being a growth industry look who is being indicted. The Associated Press: Cheney, Gonzales indicted in South Texas county (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9PvQtj8plxTnRZS7hHmJap_Rt2AD94HOCQ00)

Setting up another stalinist show trial .it isn't going to happen .

Ever hear of the Supremacy Clause ?

That boy must be stupid!! also cheak out my thing called why is my dog sleeping a lot? I need a answer for that and also cheak out rihanna or leona lewis,madonna or kylie minogue and liverpool or man u? Cheak them thanks bye!!

I finally went and read some of the stories about this case (better late than never) and I'm not convinced he murdered these two men. It sounds like a coerced confession. Also, I'm annoyed by the number of times that reporters say there was "no evidence of abuse." No evidence means nothing. It 's not evidence of no abuse. It's no data. Period.

I think we basically know nothing about what happened and a confession under these circumstances--just saw his father die, alone with police for an hour, etc--means little.

]that boy must be stupid[/B]!!!!!!!!!!also cheak out my thing called why is my dog sleeping a lot? i need a answer for that and also cheak out rihanna or leona lewis,madonna or kylie minogue and liverpool or man u? cheak them thx bye!!!!!


That boy is 8 years old!

As for asking us to check out your other posts, that's up to us. I don't think that voting on different singers is as important as an 8 year old boy who has committed murder. That's just my opinion though.

Asking I saw last night that they have no proof the 8 year old shot both of the men. And the person on cnn (I forget who) said the police basically lead him along until they got the answers they wanted.

Spitvenom, that's what it looks like to me too. He started just saying he found them dead, but they pressured him for an hour and kept implying that they would prove he did it by finding his fingerprints on the gun and it would be better for him to confess. Well of course his fingerprints are on the 22;it's his gun. He knows that and if the police are telling him he must have done it and they can prove it with the fingerprints, the poor kid is starting to disconnect from reality. After an hour of bullying by police, what kid wouldn't give in and concede that "maybe" he did it? It's appalling.

That poor kid. Where is this kids mother? Why isn't she in the picture, why, if she's still living, isn't she there to protect him?

Now that I read that I think one of the officers said to the 8 year old something like We know someone who said that they saw you do it. Or something along those lines.

The kid is 8. he's a child. He does not no better

That poor kid. Where is this kids mother? Why isn't she in the picture, why, if she's still living, isn't she there to protect him?

This is what I have been wondering. She apparently lost him in the divorce and is in another state, which is, to me, a bad sign. A dad who takes a kid away from his mother?

And makes the step mother spank him for minor infractions (but doesn't even do it himself). (I can't imagine spanking an 8 year old, let alone someone else's kid.) The boy gets off the school bus at 3:30 and is expected to wander around the neighborhood for 90 minutes until an adult gets home at 5 pm. On a regular basis.

Poor kid.

I think that what he needs more than anything is some love and affection. That poor, poor kid.

Why is it that you need a license to get a dog but any idiot can have a child?

There's something wrong with this world. :(

A few pages ago, a question was asked - if this child is tried as an adult is is age or crime related?

I, personally, think that it is crime related. If, as someone said, he had stolen candy and pop then he would not be tried as an adult. The crime was more of an "adult" crime. That would be my guess.

I question - what would the politicians have to gain by trying this child as an adult? What does politics have to do with THIS case?

I like to know why wasn't the gun locked up for safe keeping?

On CNN they stated that the father brought the son the gun to show him how to shoot but I think that is too young and the gun isn't a pistol it looks like a rifle. Why do a 8 year old need a big gun like that and needs to learn how to shoot?

Do they have laws about this? If not, they should. I can help to think that the father and friend would still be alive if the gun was in a secure place.

The kid is eight. It's possible he doesn't even understand what "death" or "dead" really means. Regardless, an eight-year-old has no business in an adult prison. And it sounds like there's a big question on if he did it or not.

To the second part of the question - I guess for me I weigh it on age and crime. I have a lot less sympathy for a 17-year-old who hacked his parents to death than for an 8-year-old. But I don't think either should spend time in an adult prison until they are of "adult" age.

This is the second case recently about a young child doing something "adult". The first that comes to mind is the boy in Australia who broke into a zoo, killed several animals by bashing their heads in, and fed others to a crocodile. He's not being charged with anything because of his age. Boy, 7, Breaks Into Zoo, Kills Animals (http://news.aol.com/article/boy-breaks-into-zoo-kills-animals/200065).

Hello again:

Ok, I won't keep you in suspense. We used to put people under 18 into the juvenile system, because we believed that children didn't have the capacity to understand the ramifications of their acts. It had nothing to do with the crime. It had everything to do with their age. It worked fine.

Then, sometime around the early 70's, when CRIME became an issue, and SOFT on crime became an anathema, we began charging children as adults... In my view, it was done strictly for political purposes.

It's time we ALL became the bleeding heart liberals that we once were.

excon

It isn't about politics. What's wrong today, is that the people of America have stopped caring about one another, as human beings, in general. That doesn't mean that we were all once bleeding heart liberals. Neither does that mean that everyone used to care. Nor does it indicate that most people are jerks. Subscribing to only one view or another is black and white thinking. Black and white work well for mathematical equations. When personalities get involved, becoming rigid-thinking only serves to fuel anger and judgement.

Does capital punishment really help solve things, I mean what lesson is taught? Should all male rapists be castrated? Should an 8-year-old boy be tried as an adult? The answer to all of these questions is that, "it depends on the circumstances." Circumstances involving human beings are never black and white.

Those of us (certainly not me) with the ability to sift through all evidence available to us and come up with succinct sensibility are a gift to society. Why don't they get voted for? Why are these people not heard more? Why aren't they on television, and the american populace hanging on every word? Who do you champion, and why?

Hello again:

You asked, who would want to put a kid like this in prison...

I'll tell you who. Bill O'Reilly and his click. When he was watching the video of the police ILLEGALLY interviewing the kid, Bill noticed that the kid said he killed his dad, and wasn't emotional at all when he said it. To Bill, that meant the kid was a sociopath and should rot in the slam. Billo isn't alone in his thinking.

To ME, and I think to you, his lack of emotion is EXACTLY WHAT YOU'D EXPECT FROM AN 8 year old. They don't really understand that DEAD is FOREVER. That's why we treat them differently.

The Arizona cops should be ashamed of themselves... Plus, I know it's a small police force, but how come they didn't know they should't interview a kid WITHOUT a parent or WITHOUT a lawyer? Doesn't EVERY police force know that?? Ok, no they don't.

excon

Actually no parents don't have to be there to ask them questions, in fact normally it is pefered not to have them there. Also as long as they are charged as a child ( youth) they actually don't have the same rights as a adult, in Juv court, although they go in for a specific crime, youth court looks to see what they believe is in the best interest of the child.

Wow, you mean an 8 year old child can be interrogated without their parents present? What about counsel?

An 8 year old child could be easily coerced into accepting blame for something he/she didn't even do. Imagine how scared this young boy was, being alone with the police, being questioned without his mother there, or counsel there to protect his rights.

I just don't think that's right.

Hello again:

You asked, who would want to put a kid like this in prison....

I'll tell you who. Bill O'Reilly and his click. When he was watching the video of the police ILLEGALLY interviewing the kid, Bill noticed that the kid said he killed his dad, and wasn't emotional at all when he said it. To Bill, that meant the kid was a sociopath and should rot in the slam. Billo isn't alone in his thinking.

To ME, and I think to you, his lack of emotion is EXACTLY WHAT YOU'D EXPECT FROM AN 8 year old. They don't really understand that DEAD is FOREVER. That's why we treat them differently.

The Arizona cops should be ashamed of themselves.... Plus, I know it's a small police force, but how come they didn't know they should't interview a kid WITHOUT a parent or WITHOUT a lawyer?? Doesn't EVERY police force know that???? Ok, no they don't.

excon

I watched bill o'reilly discuss this with the two women that he refers to his legal panel or something like that... I didn't get the impression at ALL that He thought this boy belonged in jail. Perhaps you dislike bill o'reilly and you read into his comment. Just a thought... ( I am part of his click... fyi)

Hey exy... don't BE a pin-head!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13child.html?_r=1&hp


Ms. Bloomfield described her son as a “normal boy” who played video games nonstop




I wonder which videogames this kid was playing?


I don't think an 8 yo understands the finality of death. In a lot of videogames the goal is violence, no right or wrong, no consequences for your actions, no legal penalties, and your player always has several lives or you can restart.

[QUOTE=Fr_Chuck;1384955]actually no parents don't have to be there to ask them questions, in fact normally it is pefered not to have them there. Also as long as they are charged as a child ( youth) they actually don't have the same rights as a adult, in Juv court, although they go in for a specific crime, youth court looks to see what they believe is in the best interest of the child.[/QUOTE

On CNN and many talk shows, lawyers stated that a parent doesn't have to be present for questioning but once he confessed to the crime they should've stop and let a parent be present for the rest of the questioning but they didn't because they knew most likely the parent would've asked for a lawyer. Even Judge Alex agreed.

The thing I don't like about this is why did they released the tape of the boy being question. That was wrong and considering his age. In the interview it seems like they were interviewing him as a witness then a suspect. If I was the parent I would have stop the tape from airing and stop it from airing.

I don't believe this child should be charged as an adult but I do believe that he needs therapy a psycologyst or someone who can help him. 8 years in the world, he dose not know what he has done!! Im sure in the future he will regret it but now the poor child just cannot possibly know what he has done. I mean when I was that age I didn't even know much about death.. let alone acctually killing someone. The authorities in that state are taking this over board. I understand he took two lives but come on! He IS a CHILD!

I go a step further. I think it is WRONG to even have him in a juvenile detention center. He is EIGHT!! A eight year old boy needs his mother.. they still sleep with teddy bears. He is messed up. Why mess him up further? He needs his MOTHER and psycolgical HELP.

[QUOTE=liz28;1386496Even Judge Alex agreed.[/QUOTE]



Who is Judge Alex? I've been following this case - hot legal topic, obviously - and have seen no mention of a Judge Alex. I thought there hadn't been an arraignment and so far no Judge is involved.

I go a step further. I think it is WRONG to even have him in a juvenile detention center. He is EIGHT!!! A eight year old boy needs his mother..they still sleep with teddy bears. He is messed up. Why mess him up further? He needs his MOTHER and psycolgical HELP.



Has anyone read why the mother didn't have custody?

Who is Judge Alex? I've been following this case - hot legal topic, obviously - and have seen no mention of a Judge Alex. I thought there hadn't been an arraignment and so far no Judge is involved.

If you reread my post I was quoting comments made by people. Today on the today show they had 2 t.v. judges on the show, one of them being Judge Alex and the other one name was Judge Jeanine Pirro, and they both was giving their input on the case. Never said it was a judge from an arriagement.

If you reread my post I was quoting comments made by people. Today on the today show they had 2 t.v. judges on the show, one of them being Judge Alex and the other one name was Judge Jeanine Pirro, and they both was giving their input on the case. Never said it was a judge from an arriagement.




And if you re-read my post, who is Judge Alex and why is he commenting on this? Judge Jeanine Pirro I know. She's an authority, has been in the Courts for years and years, has an excellent Bar Association rating.

You said, "Even Judge Alex agrees." That's not a quote and I have no idea who he is or what makes him an authority.

Judge Alex is an judge that comes on t.v. like Judge Pirro. I forgot his last name but he comes on channel 5 everyday for at least the last 2 years. This morning while both of them was on the show he did most of the talking while Judge Pirro agreed. So she agreed to what he had to say and even added to it. And again they both was commenting on the case like everyone else accept they were giving their legal point of view. He is a judge so he is of authority.

Hello again:

Judge Alex Ferrer, I think.

For ALL the reasons you guys have cited, plus many more, the cops have screwed up their investigation sooooo badly, that the only thing left to do, IS charge him as a juvenile. The confession will be thrown out. They'll NEVER convict him as an adult.

I guess that's good. But, I'd rather they treated him as a juvenile because he is, not because they screwed up.

excon

Judy, since you stated you don't know who he is, here is some information about his from his website.
Meet Judge Alex
Former police officer, attorney and Florida Circuit Court Judge Alex E. Ferrer hosts "Judge Alex," the new court room strip from Twentieth Television that will make its launch in first-run national syndication on September 12, 2005. The first new court show in four years, the half-hour strip features Judge Alex, the only television judge with extensive police, legal and judicial experience, presiding over a wide array of cases, resolving complicated issues with his straight forward approach and cogent rulings.

Most recently, Judge Alex served as the Associate Administrative Judge of the Criminal Division of Florida’s Eleventh Judicial Circuit, which services Miami-Dade County, the largest trial court in the state and fourth largest in the United States.

Born in Havana, Cuba, Judge Alex and his family escaped from Fidel Castro’s Communist regime to America when he was one year old. Growing up in Miami with a passionate interest in law enforcement, at 19 he joined the Coral Gables Police Department, making him one of the youngest officers in the state. While on the police force, he served as a patrolman, detective and in an undercover capacity. He was also trained to be on the department’s SWAT force. Intent on building a career in the legal profession, Judge Alex performed his duties as a police officer while attending both college and law school.

Judge Alex received his Juris Doctorate degree from the University of Miami School of Law, where he became a published member of its Law Review. He previously served as Judicial Director of the university’s Alumni Association. Upon receiving his degree, Judge Alex practiced law in Miami, focusing on civil litigation, including hundreds of suits involving medical malpractice, wrongful deaths, personal injuries and commercial business disputes. After becoming an attorney, and to further embolden his commitment to law and order, Judge Alex served as a volunteer reserve police officer in the Miami suburb of Homestead. But the experience of law enforcement and legal representation were only stepping stones in his dream of reaching for higher aspirations in the U.S.

In 1995, at the age of 34, he was elected judge, making him the youngest Circuit Court Judge in the Eleventh Judicial Circuit, where he was a Family and Criminal division judge for the past ten years. Throughout his high-profile tenure on the bench, he handled thousands of cases, ranging from first degree murders involving the death penalty, drug related offenses, RICO conspiracy indictments, kidnappings and armed robberies to child custody and support issues, general financial matters, adoptions and paternity suits. Judge Alex also presided as an appellate judge over appeals from the
Miami-Dade County Court, County Commission and numerous other governmental bodies. In 1999, his peers elected him as their District Representative to the Executive Committee of the Conference of Circuit Court Judges, a role he held until 2001; and he served on the Conference’s Legislative Subcommittee from 2003 to 2005. Moreover, Judge Alex was selected by the Judicial Nominating Commission as a finalist for a vacant seat in Florida’s high-profile Third District Court of Appeal.

Judge Alex is a member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, and has served as an adjunct professor at Florida International University, teaching graduate courses in criminal law and procedure. He teaches media relations and closing arguments to other judges at judicial conferences held throughout the year, as well as at the New Judges College and the College of Advanced Judicial Studies. Judge Alex has also authored a "bench book" on closing arguments that is used by judges throughout Florida and is regularly interviewed by media to provide expert opinions on a number of legal issues.

Judge Alex resides in Miami with his wife and their two children. A licensed pilot, his interests also include scuba diving, sculpting, golf, music and running marathons.

"Judge Alex" is exclusively distributed throughout the U.S. by Twentieth Television and executive produced by Michelle Mazur, Burt Wheeler and Sharon Sussman.

JudgeAlex.com - Official Site for Judge Alex (http://www.judgealex.com)

Judge Alex is an judge that comes on t.v. like Judge Pirro. I forgot his last name but he comes on channel 5 everyday for at least the last 2 years. This morning while both of them was on the show he did most of the talking while Judge Pirro agreed. So she agreed to what he had to say and even added to it. And again they both was commenting on the case like everyone else accept they was giving their legal point of view. He is a judge so he is of authority.



All right, I looked him up. He's the "star" of a TV talk show.

I don't know about "... he is of authority." He's not an active Judge anywhere nor is he in private practice but he certainly has legal experience and the necessary background and degree. I obviously don't watch a lot of TV.

You've quoted your Attorney friends in the past - what do they say about this case?

Excon, do you think the jury will be tinted especially since the tape is out?

Hello liz:

If they try him as an adult, he'll be eligible for a change of venue because of the tape, and the small town... But, I can't imagine that he could get a fair trial ANYWHERE because of the tape.

I hope they come to their senses and treat him like a kid...

What? Did I say that I hope the cops come to their senses?? I musta been smoking something... Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

excon, do you think the jury will be tinted especially since the tape is out?



You didn't ask me, but do you mean will the potential jury pool be tainted?

I can't imagine this case can now be tried anywhere - but that was said about OJ and his various misadventures and the Courts WERE able to empanel a jury.

Another reason the US should consider trained, professional jurors - but that's another subject.

I go a step further. I think it is WRONG to even have him in a juvenile detention center. He is EIGHT!!! A eight year old boy needs his mother..they still sleep with teddy bears. He is messed up. Why mess him up further? He needs his MOTHER and psycolgical HELP.


Classy, I do agree, but, there has to be a reason that the mother didn't get custody of her son and really isn't a large part of his life.

He needs someone, I'm just not sure it's his mother that he needs.

Classy, I do agree, but, there has to be a reason that the mother didn't get custody of her son and really isn't a large part of his life.

He needs someone, I'm just not sure it's his mother that he needs.



Exactly and I did see his mother will be allowed to spend Thanksgiving with the child - otherwise the news reports sort of skip over the mother/son relationship.

I wish we knew more about their relationship, it might help to better understand why he did this, if he even did.

For once I think we have to push the legal system aside and look at the person being accused of this crime.

They have a chance to turn this around, to make this child better. If he gets the help he needs, the love he needs, the understanding, then he may just turn into a productive member of this world. If they put him in jail, at the age of 8, well, I can't see him ever turning that around.

This case should be about what's right, not what's wrong.

I have been listening to this interogation. It really sounds to me that this kid was trying his very best to say what he thought they wanted to hear.
Like when he said he shot his dad because he thought he was suffereing. The ladies seem to like that so he repeated it over and over.

I am not sure what to think. I have an 8 year old, I can not even imagine it. When she is pushed - she will say what she thinks you want to hear. Is that happening here - to an extreme?

I agree with you NowWhat. When my son was 8 I could convince him that there was a purple cow in the yard, and he'd repeat it to anyone. Children that age are easily coerced into saying what they think we want to hear.

Maybe they pushed him to say that, so it wouldn't seem so cold-blooded.

I agree with you NowWhat. When my son was 8 I could convince him that there was a purple cow in the yard, and he'd repeat it to anyone. Children that age are easily coerced into saying what they think we want to hear.



For that matter adults falsely confess to the Police all the time. Interrogation is a frightening experience.

Exactly Judy. If it's frightening for an adult, imagine how it must feel for a child.

Really, I just want to take that little boy in and give him the love and structure he so obviously needs. I really don't think he did it, but if he did, I don't think he realized that it was wrong. That in itself says a lot about his upbringing.

Blame the parents, not the child, his life is an unwritten book, this could still turn out with a happy ending, if he's given half a chance.