You're kidding, right? Well, a 16 year old is not physically, emotionally, financially old enough to have a child, and we all know that sex produces children. Are you saying that you would be okay with a 15 year old girl having sex? Wow! Now that's morally wrong.

I am not kidding, as I said before the legal age to get married in almost all countries is 16.Could you please point me to any scientific studies that show that have sex while you are 16 is harmful, I can point you out to a lot which says that it is not.

I am not kidding, as i said before the legal age to get married in almost all countries is 16.Could you please point me to any scientific studies that show that have sex while you are 16 is harmful, i can point you out to a lot which says that it is not.

Please do point us to this information!

Please do point us to this information!

Marriageable age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Legal age for marriage link.

Let me try to find the link for the scientific studies, I have hard copies. Hopefully I can find the links too

I am not kidding, as i said before the legal age to get married in almost all countries is 16.Could you please point me to any scientific studies that show that have sex while you are 16 is harmful, i can point you out to a lot which says that it is not.

You show me yours, I'll show you mine. I never said it was illegal, I said it was morally wrong. That's your argument against gay marriage, so tell me, do you think it's morally right for a 16 year old to marry? Forget about legalities.

Again, if you had a daughter, would you allow her to have sex at 16 years of age? Would you think it's morally right to let her marry? If so, then we have nothing further to discuss.

Gay marriage between two consenting adults is more moral then marrying off a 16 year old child!

I am not kidding, as i said before the legal age to get married in almost all countries is 16.Could you please point me to any scientific studies that show that have sex while you are 16 is harmful, i can point you out to a lot which says that it is not.
Physically harmful, no. Emotionally harmful, yes. There are studies about that. Academically harmful, yes. That's obvious.

Have you looked around and talked with 16 y/os in the U.S. Many are thinking of college and a career, not a family. Sex makes babies. The culture in the U.S. does not prepare 16 y/os to be parents. It's preparing them to be productive adults. In other countries the culture is entirely different because 16 y/os are often considered adults there.

You show me yours, I'll show you mine. I never said it was illegal, I said it was morally wrong. That's your arguement against gay marriage, so tell me, do you think it's morally right for a 16 year old to marry? Forget about legalities.

Again, if you had a daughter, would you allow her to have sex at 16 years of age? Would you think it's morally right to let her marry? If so, then we have nothing further to discuss.

Gay marriage between two consenting adults is more moral then marrying off a 16 year old child!

Morality differs from culture to culture, I am sure you know this, my mother was married to my father when she was 16. That is the cultural norm in Pakistan, hence it is moral in Pakistan to for teenagers at 16 to get married. It is illegal and morally wrong here to marry your cousins, in most Muslim countries it is moral and not illegal to marry your cousin.

So we can't have a society based on your moral as I said before, it is the morals of the majority that we have to live by.

This is the argument I was using for gay marriages.

I don't have children now and I don't know if I would have a problem with her having sex or getting married at 16. In by the way even if I did I wold not answer this question as it is personal, We can have a general discussion here and I am sure we can have that discussion without bringing my whole family in it

Physically harmful, no. Emotionally harmful, yes. There are studies about that. Academically harmful, yes. That's obvious.

Have you looked around and talked with 16 y/os in the U.S.? Many are thinking of college and a career, not a family. Sex makes babies. The culture in the U.S. does not prepare 16 y/os to be parents. It's preparing them to be productive adults. In other countries the culture is entirely different because 16 y/os are often considered adults there.

I agree. I thought we were talking about 16 year old from around the world not just from the U.S.

You show me yours, I'll show you mine. I never said it was illegal, I said it was morally wrong. That's your arguement against gay marriage, so tell me, do you think it's morally right for a 16 year old to marry? Forget about legalities.

Again, if you had a daughter, would you allow her to have sex at 16 years of age? Would you think it's morally right to let her marry? If so, then we have nothing further to discuss.

Gay marriage between two consenting adults is more moral then marrying off a 16 year old child!

I agree, and just because the "law" says it's legal, doesn't make it moral. That IS what we were talking about here wasn't it? I don't need any scientific research to tell me that children that are not yet even at the age of consent, do not yet understand the consequences of their actions.

It is however a scientific and medical fact, that your brain does not fully develop, until you are well into your 20's. Therefore, I would have to conclude that having sex at the age of 16 or younger, could be detrimental to the teens involved.

As far as I'm concerned, and this is my opinion, any country who allows children as young as 14 years of age to marry and have sex, is child abuse!

I agree, and just because the "law" says it's legal, doesn't make it moral. That IS what we were talking about here wasn't it? I don't need any scientific research to tell me that children that are not yet even at the age of consent, do not yet understand the consequences of their actions.

It is however a scientific and medical fact, that your brain does not fully develop, until you are well into your 20's. Therefore, I would have to conclude that having sex at the age of 16 or younger, could be detrimental to the teens involved.

As far as I'm concerned, and this is my opinion, any country who allows children as young as 14 years of age to marry and have sex, is child abuse.

Then according to you the legal age for marriage should be in our 20's ? And if a 29 years old marries a 19 year old it should be considered child abuse?

If we don't need any scientific studies, then all we would be doing is enforcing our morals on other.

We aren't talking about Pakistan, we're talking about the US and making Gay marriage legal there. I live in Canada, we already allow Gay marriage. Are you saying that Canadians have no morals, or maybe we're just more open minded than most.

You are the one that brought the moral issue into this game. As Excon stated, the constitution says nothing about morals. Too many people with differing ideas, we shouldn't consider morals when deciding on legalities.

Bottom line, who does it hurt to allow Gay marriage? Does it effect you? I doubt it. No one here has said that churches have to allow Gay marriages, nor do they (that are supposed love all man kind and accept all man kind) have to accept gays into their church. That is their right, no one is going to take that away from them.

But, why should Gays not have the same rights as the rest of us? Just because they love someone of the same sex? Do you really think they would choose that course? Why would anyone choose something that would ostersize them from society? It's not a choice it's who they are, therefore they should be allowed the same rights as any other human being on this planet.

Like it or lump it, you brought morality into this, and that shouldn't even be considered.

Then according to you the legal age for marriage should be in our 20's ? and if a 29 years old marries a 19 year old it should be considered child abuse??

If we don't need any scientific studies, then all we would be doing is enforcing our morals on other.

Nope, wrong. Sadly, the law is written that most people can legally marry at at least 18 years of age. Should they? Probably not, most of these young marriages don't last, that's a fact.

Once again, you brought up morals, we just responded in kind.

Check out gay divorces versus straight divorces. Want to bet who has a higher divorce rate?

Also, a 29 year old and 19 year old are considered adults, not children. If you can't vote, should you marry? Obviously you're not considered an adult until 18 years of age. So why should 16 year olds be allowed to marry? Doesn't make sense.

Then according to you the legal age for marriage should be in our 20's ? and if a 29 years old marries a 19 year old it should be considered child abuse??

If we don't need any scientific studies, then all we would be doing is enforcing our morals on other.

A 20 year old would not be a child would he/she. A 16 year old is still a child, according to all medical/scientific research, and when they reach the age of maturity and adulthood. This has little to do with morals. This is a matter of fact. I was stating that it is a medical fact that the human brain does not fully mature until into the 20's, and therefore so of the area's of the brain do not yet have the full capacity to understand repercussions, and choices that are made before their brain has fully developed.

But, this thread is about "Gay Marriage," and not the issue of someone else's "moral standards."

But, this thread is about "Gay Marriage," and not the issue of someone else's "moral standards."

Exactly. But the people against Gay marriage only have their so called "morals" to offer as a reason to ban Gay marriage.

I hope I live to see the day that people can accept other people for who and what they are. Maybe the next generation will be more understanding, more "blind" to all of these issues. Until then, let's hope that the people who already understand that being Gay, black, chinese, whatever, doesn't define who you are, can make enough of a difference to make this world a better place to live in, for all the people who live in it.

Exactly. But the people against Gay marriage only have their so called "morals" to offer as a reason to ban Gay marriage.

I hope I live to see the day that people can accept other people for who and what they are. Maybe the next generation will be more understanding, more "blind" to all of these issues. Until then, let's hope that the people who already understand that being Gay, black, chinese, whatever, doesn't define who you are, can make enough of a difference to make this world a better place to live in, for all the people who live in it.

Everyone should be able to live in the body they were born in. It's society that imposes their morals and way of thinking, on others. It doesn't mean we all need to agree or conform. People should be allowed to live a happy and productive life, no matter what lifestyle they choose, the color of their skin, or their religion. However, this should not be imposed or pushed down the throats of others who have different beliefs. Is it a point of contention for many, when we are trying to convince someone that white is white, and black is black --in a general sense, and not concerning ethnicticity--it is often hard for some very conservative people to swallow.

Did I just morph into a politician there? ;) haha.

I am not kidding, as i said before the legal age to get married in almost all countries is 16.Could you please point me to any scientific studies that show that have sex while you are 16 is harmful, i can point you out to a lot which says that it is not.

What about the fact that you have not matured to a stage that you fully comprehend the fall out when you end up making a baby or with some life long disease. Sure, this happens to older people too but chances are, the younger you are, the less life experiences to reflect on, and the less capable you are to handle the consequences that sex could bring.. Do you know a 16 year old that has finished their education, has the ability to bring to a home that baby home to a place that the 16 yr old owns? Feed, it cloth it, put it in daycare while you work since you have to get money some way. Do you know a 16 yr old that is ready to settle down? Has their career up and going? Just because some countries allow marriage at 16 doesn't take away from the disasters that it could bring. Would you like to be the child of a 16 year old couple?

Please do point out the studies that show that it is not harmful.

I'm also awaiting the studies! Can we say "Octumum"? Okay, this is a different discussion, and this woman has serious issues, but a 16 yr. old that is "in loooove" does not have the capability to see around corners.

I'm also awaiting the studies! Can we say "Octumum"? Okay, this is a different discussion, and this woman has serious issues, but a 16 yr. old that is "in loooove" does not have the capability to see around corners.

I am trying to find a link. I do have a job and family that I like to spend time with.Be patient

[QUOTE=Altenweg;1575717]Nope, wrong. Sadly, the law is written that most people can legally marry at at least 18 years of age. Should they? Probably not, most of these young marriages don't last, that's a fact.

Once again, you brought up morals, we just responded in kind.

Check out gay divorces versus straight divorces. Want to bet who has a higher divorce rate?

All I said was morals differ from society to society, which is true.I was replying to your statement that it is immoral for a 16 year old to have sex or ,emotionally not suitable I guess is the right word, you still have not given be any scientific studies that prove this??

Unless you do, these are just your opinions, what you think is right.( YOUR MORALS).A19 year is considered an adult in society not by science.Science says that adults comletly mature around 20 years old

It is however a scientific and medical fact, that your brain does not fully develop, until you are well into your 20's. . ( Starbucks 8)

I am not arguing for or against gay marriages. I saw your statement which said that sex before 16 is harmful, which I think is wrong.

g? Just because some countries allow marriage at 16 doesn't take away from the disasters that it could bring. Would you like to be the child of a 16 year old couple?

Please do point out the studies that show that it is not harmful.[/QUOTE]

Almost all countries marriage at 16 is legal. You can check the Wikipedia article that I have provided above

Until then, let's hope that the people who already understand that being Gay, black, chinese, whatever, doesn't define who you are




Being Black or Asian or Hispanic or white or male or female or young or oold or fat or skinny for that matter - DOES define who you are. It is defined biologically. Different races and genders are predisposed to getting certain illnesses due to their race or gender.

People can SEE the difference.
It is blindness not to acknowledge this.
It is the first step to recognizing individual differences, and that we all don't have to look, think, act alike to get along.


You can't compare homosexuality. You can't "SEE" it when you pass someone on the street. They have to let you know. A woman can't be in the closet about the gender and neither can a black or Asian or Hispanic person.














G&P

You can't compare homosexuality. You can't "SEE" it when you pass someone on the street. They have to let you know. A woman can't be in the closet about the gender and neither can a black or Asian or Hispanic person.

I'm german, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell looking at me. I'm also heterosexual, but can you tell? I doubt it.

Your argument makes no sense.

g? Just because some countries allow marriage at 16 doesn't take away from the disasters that it could bring. Would you like to be the child of a 16 year old couple?

Please do point out the studies that show that it is not harmful.


Almost all countries marriage at 16 is legal. You can check the Wikipedia article that I have provided above
[/QUOTE]
When are you going to provide the link to the studies that say sex at 16 is fine?

Quote:: You can't compare homosexuality. You can't "SEE" it when you pass someone on the street. They have to let you know. A woman can't be in the closet about the gender and neither can a black or Asian or Hispanic person.


This is not an entirely true statement all all, although this discussion is not about race, or ethnicity. You would be shocked at how well a male or female can hide their gender. You would also be very surprised at the number of Black, Asian, or Hispanic people that you would never have a clue they were of that race.

With that said, we don't need to pull out the race card here. This discussion is about Gay Marriage. This has really gone off topic.

Even thought I can't find an online link to this book, the name of the book is
Mr Waites, The Age of Consent: Young People, Sexuality and Citizenship

He is Professor of sociology in Glasgow university Mattew Waites has added his voice to those calling for reduction in the age of consent from 16 to 14 in Britain.Other studies have shown that fixing the age of consent at 16 criminalises above 50% of young people in UK(INTERNATIONAL CHILD AND YOUTH CARE) NETWORK)

I have a couple of other studies but will have to find a link for those too.

The Haworth Press Online Catalog: Article Abstract (http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=S7MHNTEQRDV38M2VC3EVUB9V86 2A4MDF&ID=87429)

A 16 year old is still a child, according to all medical/scientific research, and when they reach the age of maturity and adulthood. This has little to do with morals.

Wrong again.


The fact is that even until the 18th century, reaching puberty meant becoming an “adult”, in terms of maturity, behavior and responsibility, as stated in the Journal of Social History, Online Etymology Dictionary, Journal of Marriage and the Family, and numerous academic references.

· Children now in developing countries now and then faced the daily struggle for physical and economic survival,[] and while this type of “environmental stress” actually causes puberty at a younger age, it is proven to have also speeded psychological maturity. This maturity helped in coping with the responsibilities of early marriage and childbearing.


·It was only in the industrial mid-18th century that psychological maturity started to delay, due to side effects that are proven to delay maturity such as: increasing comforts of life, diminished parental guidance and that “children remained children longer to complete their education


2“Life history theory” states that in a less stable environment, “natural selection will favor individuals that reproduce earlier... within a population


But, this thread is about "Gay Marriage," and not the issue of someone else's "moral standards."[/QUOTE]

Yes I know this thread is about gay marriage but I will say what I said before

I am not arguing for or against gay marriages. I saw ALTANWEG's statement which said that sex before 16 is harmful, which I think is wrong.Hence had to say something

We aren't talking about Pakistan, we're talking about the US and making Gay marriage legal there. I live in Canada, we already allow Gay marriage. Are you saying that Canadians have no morals, or maybe we're just more open minded than most.

WOW.When did I say anything about no morals. All I said is in society the morals of the majority is the one that counts, be it wrong or right.



You are the one that brought the moral issue into this game. As Excon stated, the constitution says nothing about morals. Too many people with differing ideas, we shouldn't consider morals when deciding on legalities.

Bottom line, who does it hurt to allow Gay marriage? Does it effect you? I doubt it. No one here has said that churches have to allow Gay marriages, nor do they (that are supposed love all man kind and accept all man kind) have to accept gays into their church. That is their right, no one is going to take that away from them.

But, why should Gays not have the same rights as the rest of us? Just because they love someone of the same sex? Do you really think they would choose that course? Why would anyone choose something that would ostersize them from society? It's not a choice it's who they are, therefore they should be allowed the same rights as any other human being on this planet.

Like it or lump it, you brought morality into this, and that shouldn't even be considered.[/QUOTE]

I was just talking about sex at 16, WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? In by the way gays should have the right to marry,

Dare, what are YOU talking about? She never said gay people shouldn't have the right to marry!

I read your "proof", and decided to not even comment on that cavemans theory, about the age of consent.

You are obviously being very confrontational, and I for one won't deal with you.

Who are you or I to say what other people should do with their lives? As long as they are two consenting adults, what is the issue with any two PEOPLE marrying?

Dare, what are YOU talking about? She never said gay people shouldn't have the right to marry!

I know she didn't.All I am saying is I am talking about sex at 16 not gay marriages.

I read your "proof", and decided to not even comment on that cavemans theory, about the age of consent.

You don't have to comment. It made sense to me.Maybe it does not to you. We each have a right to our opinion

You are obviously being very confrontational, and I for one won't deal with you.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry if I am coming across as confrontational, I am just a little frustrated. I apologize to anyone if I have hurt their feeling

Who are you or I to say what other people should do with their lives? As long as they are two consenting adults, what is the issue with any two PEOPLE marrying?

Oh my god people, I was just commenting on sex at 16 not about gay marriages.I agree that gay people should be allowed to get married

I wasn't commenting on your post, I'm commenting on the topic of the thread.

I wasn't commenting on your post, I'm commenting on the topic of the thread.

Sorry then

My initial point was, is that the government is involved in almost every facet of our lives. This turned into a conversation of morality. It's true that what one person calls moral, another may call immoral.

The conversation then turned to the age of consent. Just because someone believes that just because whatever the laws of their country, or religious beliefs, makes it right for a teenager to be mentally or emotionally ready to have sex, or be ready for marriage.

Will they do it anyway?. of course they will. Do most?. unfortunately yes.

Maybe if they understood the ramifications of their actions, at the age they are, they would do things differently. Maybe they wouldn't!

There is definitely a reason why there are so many teenage single mothers, so many young mothers that have either aborted, or put so many children up for adoption, or are living off the system. They were in puberty, and did not have the ability to recognise the consequences of their actions.

A 16 yr. old, or much younger as some people claim to be just the norm. is just not ready for the responsibily that comes with having sex at that age.

Clunk... fell off my soap box again.

I agree Starbs. Couldn't agree more. I have two friends and a cousin (all under 20) that recently got pregnant. One is continuing with the pregnancy and plans to be a single mother, one continued with her pregnancy and just gave her baby up for adoption (open adoption), and one aborted. And to see the changes and challenges with these girls has really showed me lots. And solidified my desire to not have babies until at least 28.

Maybe in the U.S this is true but for most underdeveloped countries it is not

Please be more specific... which part are you referring to?

Maybe in the U.S this is true but for most underdeveloped countries it is not

And that is very sad!

Marriage and sex at 16

A lot of that has to do with the life expectancy being shorter because of poor health care. So women have children and start families a lot younger.

In America ((and a lot of other countries)) we have a longer life expectancy and want our youth to get an education before making adult choices that can change their lives.

I agree Starbs. Couldn't agree more. I have two friends and a cousin (all under 20) that recently got pregnant. One is continuing with the pregnancy and plans to be a single mother, one continued with her pregnancy and just gave her baby up for adoption (open adoption), and one aborted. And to see the changes and challenges with these girls has really showed me lots. And solidified my desire to not have babies til at least 28.

I think that is a responsible choice actually CM. By then you've got a stable life -- well you would only hope most would -- and you have had time to plan, and the experience and resources needed, to raise a child. Teenagers just think that sex is fun, a baby might be "fun", we see it every single day on the boards don't we! :rolleyes:

Mr Waites, The Age of Consent: Young People, Sexuality and Citizenship

He is Professor of sociology in Glasgow university Mattew Waites has added his voice to those calling for reduction in the age of consent from 16 to 14 in Britain.Other studies have shown that fixing the age of consent at 16 criminalises above 50% of young people in UK(INTERNATIONAL CHILD AND YOUTH CARE) NETWORK)

The Haworth Press Online Catalog: Article Abstract

The fact is that even until the 18th century, reaching puberty meant becoming an “adult”, in terms of maturity, behavior and responsibility, as stated in the Journal of Social History, Online Etymology Dictionary, Journal of Marriage and the Family, and numerous academic references.

• Children now in developing countries now and then faced the daily struggle for physical and economic survival,[] and while this type of “environmental stress” actually causes puberty at a younger age, it is proven to have also speeded psychological maturity. This maturity helped in coping with the responsibilities of early marriage and childbearing.


•It was only in the industrial mid-18th century that psychological maturity started to delay, due to side effects that are proven to delay maturity such as: increasing comforts of life, diminished parental guidance and that “children remained children longer to complete their education


2“Life history theory” states that in a less stable environment, “natural selection will favor individuals that reproduce earlier... within a population


For people asking for the links here they are. You can make up your own mind

Thank you Starbs, I agree... I want to thoroughly enjoy my 20's... I even have a TO-DO list of fun things that I need to do before starting a family. Sort of like a "bucket list", sorry for the eerie comparison.

Dare, can you please stop quoting and tell us what YOU think?

I think that is a responsible choice actually CM. By then you've got a stable life -- well you would only hope most would -- and you have had time to plan, and the experience and resources needed, to raise a child. Teenagers just think that sex is fun, a baby might be "fun", we see it every single day on the boards don't we!! :rolleyes:

This is a very U.S centric view. When I was 14 I was working in a sugar mill in Pakistan and so was my sis to support our family.All the other children working with me certainly did not think,behave or act like 14 year old from the u.s

And that's because they are forced to grow up before they have to. That is not a fault of their own, but that certainly doesn't justify a 14 year old having sex (in my eyes)

Dare, can you please stop quoting and tell us what YOU think?

I think starbucks is right when she says that 16 year old here in the u.s probably are not old enough to have sex, but this does not hold true in most underdeveloped countries where they are old and mature enough to get married at 16

I agree that children in underdeveloped countries, have hardships that we will never know. I still don't believe it is healthy, mentally or physically for a child to have sexual relationships.

Mr. Waites, just from what I read, is speaking of 18th century beliefs. Well the medical community has come a long way! There are many things they didn't know about in the 18th century.

I think starbucks is right when she says that 16 year old here in the u.s probably are not old enough to have sex, but this does not hold true in most underdeveloped countries where they are old and mature enough to get married at 16

It doesn't matter what country you are from. You may be forced to grow up sooner than you should, but this has got nothing to do with actual "maturity" in a medical sense.

I'm out for the night kids, it's 2:30am, and I'm fading! G'nite!

The 18th century belief is a separate article.the article also talks about underdeveloped countries


For Mr watts book could not find the link to his book. I have a hard copy

“environmental stress” actually causes puberty at a younger age, it is proven to have also speeded psychological maturity. This maturity helped in coping with the responsibilities of early marriage and childbearing.

Marriage and sex at 16

But notice you said UNDER DEVELOPED countries. Sixteen yr. olds and babies should never go hand in hand. No matter what the law of the land allows. Name one 16 yr old parent that you feel this would not be "harmful" to the life of the baby or the parent.

PLEASE!

Take the freaking conversation about age of consent to another, more pertinent topic.

You have hijacked this thread over it--and this thread is about GAY MARRIAGE.

Your age of consent arguments should be moved to another thread, and you can continue this conversation there.

“environmental stress” actually causes puberty at a younger age, it is proven to have also speeded psychological maturity. This maturity helped in coping with the responsibilities of early marriage and childbearing.

Environmental stress is even more reason not to have sex at 16.

Closed