Israel is the chosen people of God. Many Christians believe that Israel is rejected by God because the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Yes , they did not accept Him , but they were the first ones to believe in Him. They believed in His death , they believed in His resurrection.They believed that He is the Son of God, the Messiah.The early Church was a Jewish Church.Our Lord's desciples were Jews and through them , we the nations , the Gentiles , were born in Christ.
I am Greek , and here in Greece the Faith in Jesus and in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob was brought by Paul . I come from a place called Kavala which is the ancient Neapolis , very close to Phillipoi,you can find that in the Bible!

Examine those verces!

Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? Will ye render me a recompense? And if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompense upon your own head;

5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:

6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompense upon your own head:

8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of tim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

4 Lift thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.


Those prophecies are not yet fullfiled even though they existed in our Lord's time here on this earth.They are about to be fullfiled.

So to me , Yes Israel is and always will be the chosen people of God !

Adam,

The Jewish people are NOW and will ALWAYS be God' chosen people. If you read in Daniel, Gabriel explains that 70 weeks are determined upon the Nation of Israel. We have gotten to the 69'th week and God's clock has stopped for the Church period. It will pick right back up after the rapture of the church during the 7 year tribulation period. THAT is the last week. He is NOT forgotten Israel. He will come back to rule and reign there.

Right now he is calling out people from everywhere for his bride. I do not believe he is dealing with the NATION of Israel like he did in the Old testament because of their rejection of the Lord Jesus. But he will!!

classyT
Thank you for your answear. There is a book by Derek Prince called '' The last word on Middle East"" and I find it very good!

If any people, Jews or otherwise are rejected without hope due to their sins, then there is no hope for any of us.

Paul directed addressed and refuted this belief in the rejecteion of Israel in Romans 11.

Like all of us, Jews must of course still receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Israel is the chosen people of God. Many Christians believe that Israel is rejected by God because the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Yes , they did not accept Him , but they were the first ones to believe in Him. They believed in His death , they believed in His ressurection.They believed that He is the Son of God, the Messiah.The early Church was a Jewish Church.Our Lord's desciples were Jews and through them , we the nations , the Gentiles , were born in Christ.
I am Greek , and here in Greece the Faith in Jesus and in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob was brought by Paul . I come from a place called Kavala which is the ancient Neapolis , very close to Phillipoi,you can find that in the Bible!

Examine those verces!

Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, ....
....22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Those prophecies are not yet fullfiled even though they existed in our Lord's time here on this earth.They are about to be fullfiled.

So to me , Yes Israel is and always will be the chosen people of God !

Romans 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?


The remnant of the Jews will be regrafted on the Tree.

Hebrews 8: 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

When they accept the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ.

However, many,.
Acts 21:20
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

... including the foundation of the Church... :
Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


... have already accepted Communion with the Blood of Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

God has made many covenants with people and individuals. He tells us that they are "irrevocable". But when they are rejected by man, the blessings promised will not be received by those with whom God made a covenant. He gives many warnings to the people He led from the slavery of Egypt that THEY have a part to uphold in the great covenant of physical lands they would have from Him. And if they reject Him, they reject His promises to be their loving God.

Lev 26:9-29

9 "'I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.
14 "'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
18 "'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 "'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.
23 "'If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. 25 And I will bring the sword upon you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.
27 "'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over... NIV

It is sometimes difficult to divide the physcial blessings from the spiritual blessings... or even to divide eternal spriritual blessings from the temporal spiritual blessings He seeks to give.

That is to say; there are Christians who, because of their faith in God's promise of eternal life in Christ, will be welcomed in heaven, but, they will be missing the blessings that God seeks to give them here on earth because they don't walk in the knowledge and faith to receive them.

[I]

The remnant of the Jews will be regrafted on the Tree.

Scripture is clear that there remains a remnant who never left the tree:

Rom 11:1-2
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.
NKJV


Rom 11:17-19
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
NKJV

Unfortunately there are some churches and Christians who ignore the warning in that verse and boast that the church replaced Israel.

Those saved in Christ are GOD's chosen people. The true tribes of Abraham are spread across the globe. Many are in Palestine and have been there for centuries. The Palestinians. (Another part of the big lie) Ashkenazim is not the true Isreal nor are they Sephardic in nature. Just be careful whom tells you that "they" are GODs only chosen people. There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Money and power are there only god. Be careful.

Those saved in Christ are GOD's chosen people.

This part is true.


The true tribes of Abraham are spread across the globe. Many are in Palestine and have been there for centuries.

Including in what is today Israel.


The Palestinians. (Another part of the big lie) Ashkenazim is not the true Isreal nor are they Sephardic in nature. Just be careful whom tells you that "they" are GODs only chosen people. There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Money and power are there only god. Be careful.

This sounds like the teachings of the British-Israelite cult or white supremacists. It is certainly not either historically nor scripturally accurate.

Call it what you like or have been conditioned to call it but it is true. The ones that say they are "gods chosen people" will be very happy with you. At least you are searching. Most people couldn't care less.

Call it what you like or have been conditioned to call it but it is true. The ones that say they are "gods chosen people" will be very happy with you. At least you are searching. Most people couldn't care less.

I have done my research and my views are based upon the historical facts and upon what scripture says that I reject in the strongest possible terms those false claims against the Jewish people. I find such views quite offensive.

Is the Church Really Israel? (http://www.geocities.com/smithtj.geo/rom11.html)

Is God Finished with Israel? (http://ldbc.info/audio/2004/Smith-2-04.mp3)

Rom 11:1
11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not!
NKJV

The claims are not against the Jeweish people.

The claims are not against the Jeweish people.

I guess that this was meant in "love"?

"There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ"

Oh... you Christian Zionist are so hard headed. Fine, have it your way. You are right.

Adam7,
Yes I do believe that the Jews are NOT rejected by God, they were and are His first born as God has said.
Not all Jews rejected Jesus. Almost all of His disciples and apostles were Jews plus many more believed in Him.
Many Jews today are Christians and some have even become Christian clergy in different denominations.
The Jews are the bub from which bloomed our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Oh...you Christian Zionist are so hard headed. Fine, have it your way. You are right.

I love truth. I am a Christian.

Arcura,
Thank you for offering that.
Could you please expound on the difference between Zionist and Shepardic Jewish?

Not all Jews rejected Jesus. Almost all of His disciples and apostles were Jews plus many more believed in Him. (arcura)

Right, just as not all Gentiles have rejected Jesus.

If the rejection of Jesus by most Jews would have been sufficient reason for their rejection by God, then what defense would Gentiles have had, when most Gentiles have also rejected Jesus.

There is only one way to the Father, through the Son. So, denying the Son is not rejection?

magprob,
I do not understand your logic on that.
Please enlighten me more clearly on what your statement says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3,
Good point,
Well made.
Fred

There is only one way to the Father, thru the Son. So, denying the Son is not rejection?

The overwhelming majority of Gentiles have rejected the Son - how is that any different?

Tj3,
Good question.
I await the answer to it.
Fred

Anyone that rejects Jesus rejects GOD and they are rejected themselves, from eternal life. But you know that. Israel encompases more that just the Jewish People. The ones that have taken over the new Israel, are not Gods chosen people any more than a Gentile Or Jew that have not accepted Jesus Christ are. All people that accept Jesus Christ are his Chosen, or, Isreal. The Real, New, Israel. Not the one that exist today performing a haulocast on the Palestinian people that are more semitic than the criminals that are stealing their land and killing them. Is that done in LOVE? Sorry, not popular but true. So, if you don't understand that, you don't understand what you say you stand for.

magprob
Excuse me , WHOSE land?
According to the Bible , the Word of God , whose land is this? If you accept Jesus then you have to accept God's Word , if you reject God's Word , then you reject Jesus , you reject God!
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

You are simply wrong about that !

magprob ,
Sorry, but that land was GIVEN to the Jews by God.
So the bible says.
I believe the bible, God's word.
Jesus, My Lord and savior is a Jew.
I worship a Jew.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Anyone that rejects Jesus rejects GOD and they are rejected themselves, from eternal life. But you know that. Israel encompases more that just the Jewish People. The ones that have taken over the new Israel, are not Gods chosen people any more than a Gentile Or Jew that have not accepted Jesus Christ are. All people that accept Jesus Christ are his Chosen, or, Isreal. The Real, New, Israel. Not the one that exist today performing a haulocast on the Palestinian people that are more semitic than the criminals that are stealing their land and killing them. Is that done in LOVE? Sorry, not popular but true. So, if you don't understand that, you don't understand what you say you stand for.

Wait a second there bucko, if I reject Jesus I reject God? If your belief in the bible is greater than your belief in God I can see how you might think that; but I can assure you that "God" as I have experienced in my life has no such conditions. Do I think Jesus is the son of God, in a manner of speaking this could be true, but not in the traditional sense as you were likely taught by an authority which you've never questioned.

As for Israel or those who are chosen and who aren't, it's worth further study that we learn that the authors of who was originally chosen where the Jews themselves, how convenient ;)

As for those who non-Jew Christian's who now include themselves as the chosen and certainly are the only ones promoting this line of thinking, how convenient ;)

From the Christian faith, yes, those that reject Christ * Jesus* are rejecting God. So anyone that is believing in the Bible will believe in Christ Jesus.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

John 14:6-7

And, I stick to my statement that the ones that have "Hijacked" Israel are not GODs chosen people. They are imposters using the bible and ignorant Christians to further their strangle hold on ultimate power. It is a brilliant scam that has sucked in even you.

What did you think Satans plan was anyway? To have you fritter and argue usless dogma as if you were a gifted one. (Pharisees all of you) It is happening under your nose and you are to rightously ingaged in worthless argument to notice. A brilliant plan indeed.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

John 14:6-7

At my core I've always thought that Jesus was saying - Look at me, you know me, see how I act, see how I love, see my scarifice, you have heard my teachings. They are love, this is God; the way to God is through love. So there is no other way to the father but through love of God (notice he didn't say himself), love of your neighbor and all the laws can be summarized in this.

Love, it is not reserved for Christian's only, and I agree that the narrow path of love (in all it's forms) results in a greater connection with the "God" you believe in.

What did you think Satans plan was anyway? To have you fritter and argue usless dogma as if you were a gifted one. (Pharisees all of you) It is happening under your nose and you are to rightously ingaged in worthless argument to notice. A brilliant plan indeed.

I've often wondered if modern Christian's were the equivalent of the Pharisees; quoting scripture and scripture and pointing to this law and that law and what is right and what is wrong with other people's beliefs or interpretations of the bible.

Although I like what Jesus said, something to the effect of God's new covenant is available in the hearts of everyone. Was he not saying to stop the BS of arguing useless dogma and get on with the business of his example of we should treat and love each other, and the truth of that we will find in our hearts, not in a book or in laws or scripture?

So smooth it over to soften your blow. There is only one way, no compromise. And in this world to day, our homes and our land and everything else is being stolen. The Christain foundation is being corrupted by the ones I am talking about so don't mealy mouth me. Either stand up and fight for GOD and "ALL" his people or shut up. (Palestine)

Oh, and by the way, as much as I wish my name was Buck-O, it ain't.

Wait a second there bucko, if I reject Jesus I reject God? If your belief in the bible is greater than your belief in God I can see how you might think that; but I can assure you that "God" as I have experienced in my life has no such conditions. Do I think Jesus is the son of God, in a manner of speaking this could be true, but not in the traditional sense as you were likely taught by an authority which you've never questioned.

As for Israel or those who are chosen and who aren't, it's worth further study that we learn that the authors of who was originally chosen where the Jews themselves, how convenient ;)

As for those who non-Jew Christian's who now include themselves as the chosen and certainly are the only ones promoting this line of thinking, how convenient ;)


The last I knew, the Anti Defamation League was trying to ban the New Testament from the United States. I see you have taken Abe Foxmans word as gospel.

The last I knew, the Anti Defamation League was trying to ban the New Testament from the United States. I see you have taken Abe Foxmans word as gospel.

Since I know very little to nothing about the Anti-Defamaton League and have never heard the name Abe Foxman, I don't know if I've been insulted or complimented.

So here is a friendly bugger off, or thank you, depending on your intent... lol.

My intent is LOVE through true knowledge. Find the real truth. GOD bless you. I love every creature with the LOVE of Jesus Christ. I just ain't taking any crap in the name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior.

My intent is LOVE thru true knowledge. Find the real truth. GOD bless you. I love every creature with the LOVE of Jesus Christ. I just ain't taking any crap in the name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior.

I apologize if the my beliefs were worded against you and your beliefs, or against other Christian's. I'm relatively new to the boards and I will attempt to express my beliefs in a way that respects the beliefs of others.

Anyone that rejects Jesus rejects GOD and they are rejected themselves, from eternal life. But you know that. Israel encompases more that just the Jewish People. The ones that have taken over the new Israel, are not Gods chosen people any more than a Gentile Or Jew that have not accepted Jesus Christ are. All people that accept Jesus Christ are his Chosen, or, Isreal. The Real, New, Israel. Not the one that exist today performing a haulocast on the Palestinian people that are more semitic than the criminals that are stealing their land and killing them. Is that done in LOVE? Sorry, not popular but true. So, if you don't understand that, you don't understand what you say you stand for.

I must assume then that you do not agree with what scripture says then in Romans 11 where it tells us that Israel (Jews) are not rejected, and what Romans and Galatians says about all men being equally accountable for their sin.

Could you please provide us which a scriptural basis for your theory rather than spout this rant of anti-Jewish opinion?

You really need to stop listening to John Hagee. He has a way of "retarding" the truth.
Here it is one more time. If you don't get it this time, there is nothing more I can say.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

John 14:6-7
__________________

From the Christian faith, yes, those that reject Christ * Jesus* are rejecting God. So anyone that is believing in the Bible will believe in Christ Jesus.


Agreed. The difference here is that magprob is spouting anti-Jewish propganda suggesting that Jews as a people are condemned, which is clearly not scriptural, and as I said before, extremely offensive.

The truth is that all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23), and none can claim superiority because of their race over another.

The Jews are, however God's chosen people, because God chose the Jewish people to be the people through whom the Messiah would enter the world. This does not mean that they are saved without the blood of Christ, but it does mean God has given special honour to the Jews and have given warning about those who boast against the Jews.

My intent is LOVE thru true knowledge. Find the real truth. GOD bless you. I love every creature with the LOVE of Jesus Christ. I just ain't taking any crap in the name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior.

From what I see on here, I read nothing but hate for the Jews in your messages. Don't forget, Jesus Himself came as a Jew. How can you claim to honour Jesus if you hate the Jews?

You really need to stop listening to John Hagee. He has a way of "retarding" the truth.
Here it is one more time. If you don't get it this time, there is nothing more I can say.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

John 14:6-7
__________________

I don't know who you are talking to, but I for one have nothing to do with John Hagee.

But I do note that you chose not respond to my question regarding you anti-Jewish rants.

Agreed. the difference here is that magprob is spouting anti-Jewish propganda suggesting that Jews as a people are condemned, which is clearly not scriptural, and as I said before, extremely offensive.

The truth is that all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23), and none can claim superiority because of their race over another.

The Jews are, however God's chosen people, because God chose the Jewish people to be the people through whom the Messiah would enter the world. This does not mean that they are saved without the blood of Christ, but it does mean God has given special honour to the Jews and have given warning about those who boast against the Jews.

That is not what I have said at all. You just like to fight your fights with the fear of antisemitism. But since I understand the true nature of Israel, and the people that claim to be "GODs chosen", I am not talking about Jewish people. They are not the real Jewish people spoken of in the Bible. I am sorry you cannot grasp the truth of the situation and you must sling about the word, antisemite. Sorry to disappoint you but that is not me.

That is not what I have said at all. You just like to fight your fights with the fear of antisemitism. But since I understand the true nature of Israel, and the people that claim to be "GODs chosen", I am not talking about Jewish people. They are not the real Jewish people spoken of in the Bible. I am sorry you cannot grasp the truth of the situation and you must sling about the word, antisemite. Sorry to disappoint you but that is not me.

You see, you even want to take away the Jews genetic heritage from them. Read Romans 11.

Where in scripture do we find any basis for such a hatred?

Whew, now that is just plain ignorance. OK, you win.

TexasParent,
I agree with Fr Chuck.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

TexasParent,
I agree with Fr Chuck.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hello Fred,

I don't understand what you mean by your post. First, who is "Fr Chuck" and in what
Context to you agree with "Fr Chuck" as it relates to something I posted.

Texas Parent,
I was referring to what Fr. Chuck said above on this.
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
From the Christian faith, yes, those that reject Christ * Jesus* are rejecting God. So anyone that is believing in the Bible will believe in Christ Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Texas Parent,
I was referring to what Fr. Chuck said above on this.
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck View Post
From the Christian faith, yes, those that reject Christ * Jesus* are rejecting God. So anyone that is believing in the Bible will believe in Christ Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

From your view, your truth, your belief, your authority - the Bible which is God's word, of course you do; as does Fr Chuck; and I respect your individual beliefs.

I happen to believe differently and unfortunately presented my belief (my truth) in comparison to Fr Chucks belief; erroneously thinking that there was some middle ground between our truths and they were the object of fair comparison.

In thinking it through further I will try and refrain from framing my posts as an argument with Christian's or Christian belief or other beliefs for that matter, because the truth of the matter is, I cannot argue with what you believe to be truth; one person's truth cannot trump another's unless they are actively seeking the truth to which they yet do not know; and my perception is that Christian's have no doubt what their truth is and do not waver.

Peace and kindness to you too (those are words I do believe in).

I am not talking about Jewish people. They are not the real Jewish people spoken of in the Bible. I .

In the "I agree with you" section I was not allowed to make by whole comment about who is "real" Israel and "the Jews".

Rom 9:6-8

6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.
NIV

Rev 2:8-9
9 I know your afflictions and your poverty — yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
NIV

It is only the spiritual descendents of Abraham, Jew and Gentile, who will be saved; because faith in the "seed" is necessary.

But those who call themselves Jews today by right of their bloodline do have an irrevocable promise from God concerning the land which He promesed them IF they worship only Him.. . a kind of weird concept if they reject His word concering the "ha mashiach". But God honors His word above His name.

I've often wondered if modern Christian's were the equivalent of the Pharisees; quoting scripture and scripture and pointing to this law and that law and what is right and what is wrong with other people's beliefs or interpretations of the bible.

Although I like what Jesus said, something to the effect of God's new covenant is available in the hearts of everyone. Was he not saying to stop the BS of arguing useless dogma and get on with the business of his example of we should treat and love each other, and the truth of that we will find in our hearts, not in a book or in laws or scripture?

We believe Jesus is saying, "I am God and this is what you must do to be saved."

Sincerely,

De Maria

We believe Jesus is saying, "I am God and this is what you must do to be saved."

Sincerely,

De Maria

I do agree, love will save you from sin.

I do agree, love will save you from sin.

Love does not save you - the blood of Jesus sacrificed on the cross is the only way to be saved.

Love does not save you - the blood of Jesus sacrificed on the cross is the only way to be saved.

Respectfully, that is your opinion and YOUR truth. My life, experiences, and MY relationship with God as he has revealed himself to me personally tell me differently.

Respectfully, that is your opinion and YOUR truth. My life, experiences, and MY relationship with God as he has revealed himself to me personally tell me differently.

I am going by the God of the Bible and what He chose to reveal in the Bible. You are welcome to follow whatever god is telling you otherwise.

There are many opinions but if it is the Christian God, there is only one truth, and that is Jesus, anyone else's idea that does not follow what the bible teach is just wrong by the word of God that all Christians follow in the bible.

You can not be a Christian and make up ideas not in the bible.

TexasParent,
I do believe that love saves.
It is God's love, His grace, that saves.
All we have to do is do as he asks.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

TexasParent,
I do believe that love saves.
It is God's love, His grace, that saves.
All we have to do is do as he asks.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

No one has ever done what he asks except for Jesus Himself.

We must trust in the grace of God which come solely from the blood sacrificed on the cross as we received Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Tj3,
I thought that YOU had faith as God asks.
I do.
I thot that you believed that faith saves.
That's one of the thinngs that God asks us to do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

You can not be a Christian and make up ideas not in the bible.

Respectfully can I ask why some Christian's of different denominations think the same scripture passage means different things. If both can't agree then one is making it up, and the other is the truth. Who decides what is true in the bible even amongst Christian's? If those Christian's opposing the majority view (does the majority determine truth?) are making it up, why can't non-"Christian's" have views on the interpretation of the bible which would seem to qualify as truthful interpretation since Christian's who differ claim that their interpretation is the truth?

The New Testament even says first to the Jew and then the gentile. The gentile is grafted in.
I believe that it means that the Jew is still favored by God. The Bible also teaches to love the Jewish people and you will be favored by God.

Tj3,
I thought that YOU had faith as God asks.
I do.
I thot that you believed that faith saves.
That's one of the thinngs that God asks us to do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

My faith is in Jesus Christ. My faith is not in my works.

Love does not save you - the blood of Jesus sacrificed on the cross is the only way to be saved.

This is true! Now I pose this; can you keep the First Commandment without being saved?
In other words, is it possible for you or me to love as God requires without the help of His Holy Spirit within us? I think not.

Tj3,
That is what I thought you believed but your former post said otherwise.
Fred

Tj3,
That is what I thought you believed but your former post said otherwise.
Fred

Fred, let's be honest. Quote what I said.

I think Mag took a lot of heat because of things not well understood. In centuries past there have been tribes that adopted Judaism as their "official" religion and therfore became "Jews". They are not related by blood to Abraham, but are still known as Jews. I doubt there is hatred in this, but only a recognition of historical facts.
God does indeed have a plan for National Israel, but that nation will suffer terribly in the coming Tribulation and will be decimated before Jesus actually returns. The standard for salvation is the same for Jews and non-Jews alike. Faith in the completed work of Jesus Christ.

The scriptures in the OP are Millennial prophecies.

Tj3,
I am honest.
Don't try to say that I ma not.
You said. "No one has ever done what he asks except for Jesus Himself."
That was in response to my saying that we should do as He asks.
He asks us to do many thing and one of them is to have faith.
Your statement appeared to say that Only Jesus had faith and did as God asks.
I hope that clarifies it for you.
Fred

Tj3,
I am honest.
Don't try to say that I ma not.
You said. "No one has ever done what he asks except for Jesus Himself."

That comes straight from the Bible.

Read Romans 3:23.

Rom 3:22-23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NKJV

I should add, that you referred to this in the context of salvation - that we must do what He asks to be saved, and yet scripture says that we cannot please God in the flesh, which all men are until saved:

Rom 8:8
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
NKJV

Again, please deal honestly with what others say.

Tj3,
I have always deal honestly with you and others.
With all due respect I suggest that you take your own advice.
Peace and kindness,'Fred

Tj3,
I have always deal honestly with you and others.
With all due respect I suggest that you take your own advice.
Peace and kindness,'Fred

Fred, I just proved otherwise. Protestations are not convincing unless backed up by behaviour. Your response would have come off better if you had simply said that you mis-understood, or apologized for your error.

Now, let's get back to the topic, shall we?

Tj3,
There was nothing for me to apologize for.
Obviously you di not understand what I was saying.
I will not go on with this any farther until you do finally understand.
Fred'

Tj3,
There was nothing for me to apologize for.
Obviously you di not understand what I was saying.
I will not go on with this any farther until you do finally understand.
Fred'

Perhaps you haven't noticed that others did not understand your comments either, because you falsely claimed that I said something that I did not say.

Fred, it does not lessen you as a person to admit that you mis-spoke - if anything it speaks well of a person's character.

In any case, I am glad to hear that you won't go on. I am on here to discuss the topic.

Tj3,
You said it and I quoted what YOU said.
Like I said I will carry this no farther.
So you might as well drop it or gave the last word whatever it might be.
Fred

The New Testament even says first to the Jew and then the gentile. The gentile is grafted in.
I believe that it means that the Jew is still favored by God. The Bible also teaches to love the Jewish people and you will be favored by God.

Quite right.

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):

36 "If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever."

37 Thus says the LORD:

"If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.
NKJV

I do not understand how anyone can deny the faithfulness of God towards Israel and the Jews. I think that God makes it clear from this and other passages that He has not and will not reject Israel.

Tj3,
You said it and I quoted what YOU said.
Like I said I will carry this no farther.
So you might as well drop it or gave the last word whatever it might be.
Fred

Fred,

Give it up. You did not quote me - you claimed that I said something that I did not, and then when you did post a quote, it did not say what you claimed. You are just making it look worse the more you repeat your false accusations. If you are not willing to just admit a mistake, then just drop it, and stop making false accusations.

So much for your statement that you would not carry on.

I have heard that the question of just who is or is not a Jew is often debated in Israel, so I guess it is acceptable for us to consider it.

To illustrate: A day or so ago I saw a black man (not just brown skinned) make the statement that he is a Hebrew. Now I seriously doubt that the descendants of Abraham are not subject to the laws of genetics, so I must assume that what this man means is that he is an adherent of Judaism, and is a Jew by religion.

So there are Jews who are not of Abraham and therefore have no right to claim rights to the Abrahamic covenant, unless they claim to be brought in as proselytes.

I have heard that the question of just who is or is not a Jew is often debated in Israel, so I guess it is acceptable for us to consider it.

To illustrate: A day or so ago I saw a black man (not just brown skinned) make the statement that he is a Hebrew. Now I seriously doubt that the descendants of Abraham are not subject to the laws of genetics, so I must assume that what this man means is that he is an adherent of Judaism, and is a Jew by religion.

So there are Jews who are not of Abraham and therefore have no right to claim rights to the Abrahamic covenant, unless they claim to be brought in as proselytes.

That is not a valid assumption. Don't forget the blacks Jews of Ethiopia. Also just this past year, a community of Jews was discovered in India and recognized by Israel as qualifying for residency as Jews in Israel. So throughout history, there may have been mixing of races, but just because they have mixed race does not make them any less Jewish. Keep in mind that Jesus had gentile blood in His ancestry also.

Galveston1,
There are Jews in several races, even in Jesus time,
Jesus himself was of mixed blood, check his ancestry.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

They are still God's chosen people.
Romans 11:28-29 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Jeremiah 31:35-37 35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

saintjoan,
I agree with you on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred