Say what you want, but this guy deserves to be heard. In fact he has... over 12 million times:

TG4fe9GlWS8

Hello Steve:

Iraq was a mistake. Even if you get a kid to say it wasn't, doesn't make it so. He says the Iraqi people are better off today than before we invaded...

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

Hi Steve,

You have OCD. There is medication for that.

NK.

What is that you guys like to say about shooting the messenger?

Hello again, Steve:

Shooting the messenger?? Dude! I think the kid is just great - you too. But, your messages stink.

excon

Over 12 million Youtube hits? Must be something to the message.

He says the Iraqi people are better off today than before we invaded....

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon
What about all the dead ones?

What about all the dead ones?

And what about the ones who are just waiting in line to go? What about the ones who are upset because they are on a medical delay?

They all signed up knowing that this was a possibility. Shouldn't we support them? I know I support my son who will be leaving on November 29. Whether I believe in his decision or not, he is my son and I support his decisions.

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Iraq people better off now, minus the dictator who loved to kill his own people, is not facing reality.

Not to say that we didn't mismanage the war after Saddam was captured, but to insinuate that they are not better off is just plain crazy.

Over 12 million Youtube hits? Must be something to the message.

Faulty logic. Youtube.com became a debate ground where people go to listen to cases made for and against the war. Out of 12 million hits, approximately only 41K of those viewers thought it was worth rating. That comes out to a little over a small amount of 29 percent.


Iraq War Debated On YouTube, New Generation Takes To The 'Net Instead Of The Streets - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/01/eveningnews/main3227641.shtml)

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Iraq people better off now, minus the dictator who loved to kill his own people, is not facing reality.

Not to say that we didn't mismanage the war after Saddam was captured, but to insinuate that they are not better off is just plain crazy.


You mean the Iraqi people that survived, and hopefully, future generations. The history of their country suggests otherwise though. However I do hope they're ready to accept responsibility in their government, and secure their own perimeters, after our phased re-deployment. They've certainly have been afforded the opportunity to prepare. The vast majority of our American population acknowledges that Saddam Hussein was a dictator that deservedly was executed for crimes against humanity, mainly his own people. Ironically the US war on Iraq has killed approximately two and half times as many Iraqis than Saddam did in his whole lifetime.

You mean the Iraqi people that survived, and hopefully, future generations. The history of their country suggests otherwise though. However I do hope they're ready to accept responsibility in their government, and secure their own perimeters, after our phased re-deployment. They've certainly have been afforded the opportunity to prepare. The vast majority of our American population acknowledges that Saddam Hussein was a dictator that deservedly was executed for crimes against humanity, mainly his own people. Ironically the US war on Iraq has killed approximately two and half times as many Iraqis than Saddam did in his whole lifetime.
And we've done a great job of helping them rebuild their country and their infrastructure is more solid than ever?

I don't mean to go off topic, but how many of us actually know someone who has been there once, twice, three times?

How many have sat down and actually talked to a soldier who has helped these people, children even?

It seems many of us rely on the media for our information, but I wonder who, if any of you have actually known soldiers who have come home with a feeling of pride that they helped.

And we've done a great job of helping them rebuild their country and their infrastructure is more solid than ever?


No, it's poor. IMO the Iraqi government will have to start spending of some their own money instead of relying on ours, and by various reports they have plenty.

I don't mean to go off topic, but how many of us actually know someone who has been there once, twice, three times?

How many have sat down and actually talked to a soldier who has helped these people, children even?

It seems many of us rely on the media for our information, but I wonder who, if any of you have actually known soldiers who have come home with a feeling of pride that they helped.



My brother went to the Gulf war under George Herbert Walker Bush once, and three times he has served in Iraq under Dubya. He currently is an active recruiter in Katy, Texas and has about three left years until retirement. He could sale cinnamon sticks in hell, if he had to. My family has supported him personally since day one. Neither my father, mother, myself or siblings are happy with Dubya. But we will always be proud of my brother regardless of circumstance.

Hello J_9:

This has nothing to do with the soldiers. They're good men and women who volunteered to protect their country. Nobody is questioning whether they did THEIR jobs.

It's the policy that I have a problem with - not the soldiers who carry it out.

Yes, the Iraqi's had a cruel dictator running the show. But, if you didn't run afoul of Saddam or his family, you could earn a living and take care of your family in a safe environment. There were no terrorists. There were no suicide bombers. There was no invading army.

They were, INDEED, better off before we invaded their country. And no, I didn't have to go there to come to that conclusion. And, because I haven't been there doesn't diminish the truth of my post.

excon

J9 My cousin will be going back after the new year for his 3rd tour in this conflict after returning stateside for a year for his mandatory "dwell time" . He also served in Operation Desert Storm. He currently is a Lt Col. On General Odierno's staff .
I have spoken with him and shared email with him while he has been deployed .
Here is a bit of one of those emails (I will delete information about area of actual deploment).It was written last year right before he returned on leave:


All, once again thank you for your wonderful support for our Troops in
the III Corps (Multi-National Corps Iraq) ******. We share with the
masses. I am very bad about writing regular "snail" mail, so wanted
everyone to have a thank you note from all of us at the *****.
11 months with 4 more to go, great progress over the last 7 months.
Long road ahead, but more and more people are shunning the evil of
terrorists and wanting a better life for their children.
Keep up your prayers, it is working. The power of prayer is felt by all
here. Yes, this is a worthwhile effort in Iraq. It is reinforced each
time you look an Iraqi child in the face. The Children have hope, so
should we. Despair and defeat are not an option. We should be
encouraging leaders espousing optimism and victory.

Several have asked me how they can help on the homefront. I highly
recommend joining with a veterns group supporting wounded warriors,
their families and the families that have suffered loss. They need to
know you support them and what their sons, daughters, mothers and
fathers are fighting for or have paid the ultimate sacrifice for with
their lives.

Faulty logic. Youtube.com became a debate ground where people go to listen to cases made for and against the war. Out of 12 million hits, approximately only 41K of those viewers thought it was worth rating. That comes out to a little over a small amount of 29 percent.[/url]

Figure this math out for us, Bobby. What's the percentage of ratings versus views on all Youtube videos? Do you really think most people ever rate ANY Youtube video?

What about all the dead ones?

Should they have died in vain also?

What about all the dead ones?


Should they have died in vain also?Hello Steve:

She is talking about the dead Iraqi's - maybe up to 600,000 of 'em. I'm SURE, that every single one of them died in vain.

And, you know what?? OUR dead soldiers died in vain too. The logic that we should continue a failed war because some of our soldiers DIED in it, is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard from a very stupid dufus in chief.

excon

Shouldn't we support them? I know I support my son who will be leaving on November 29. Whether I believe in his decision or not, he is my son and I support his decisions.

For once, I will disagree with you. :(
I am sorry to hear your son is going over there, J-9. I have two teenagers and I feel an ache when I think of how it would feel, for you and others.

But I think there's a huge difference between supporting one's children and supporting all their decisions. I am sure you would not support his decision to do something dangerous such as driving too fast or not wearing a seat belt or hurting someone else. This decision is dangerous to him and to the mental well-being of his family.

I do not think you are morally obliged to support an entire war just because your son is involved in it. You can say you love someone and respect their right as a legal adult to make a decision you disagree with. You don't have to advocate for the decision itself. And even if you fully support his decision to enter the military, you don't have to support a particular war.

Of course, if you support the war for other reasons, that's a different matter. I was arguing with your reasoning.

Take care,
Asking

Does anyone here remember that congress voted bi-partisan to go to war in Iraq? You continue to blame Bush when he had the backing of both Democrats and Republicans in Congress who used available intelligence reports.
At least put blame where it belongs and quit using a scapegoat. Doing that doesn't impress me with your smarts.

available intelligence reports
We know more now about those and how they came to be.

Hello Steve:

She is talking about the dead Iraqi's - maybe up to 600,000 of 'em. I'm SURE, that every single one of them died in vain.

Um, ex, that's what my question was about.


And, you know what?? OUR dead soldiers died in vain too. The logic that we should continue a failed war because some of our soldiers DIED in it, is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard from a very stupid dufus in chief.

Iraq has failed? I thought even Obama finally admitted the surge turned the tide. Of course if my logic was "that we should continue a failed war because some of our soldiers DIED" you'd be right, but you know that's not the logic. What's the logic in removing a genocidal dictator and then abandoning the people he oppressed? What's the logic in standing down in Iraq and emboldening their neighbor which has their sights set on Iraq and desires our demise and in the last few days has threatened us with suicide bomber attacks (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225199610409&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)? What's the logic in turning our backs on liberty because we didn't like the price?

the surge turned the tide
Even we school teachers know all about that. When the students act up in the hallway during bathroom and drink breaks, and if the teachers can't control them, we get hall monitors (our "surge") to help us ride herd on the naughty ones and keep a close eye on the rest. Eventually, if it's done right, peace is restored and the hall monitors can go back to what they were doing. If it isn't done right, more severe action will be taken.

Sure, Obama agreed with the surge, but, if you remember, he was against going into Iraq in the first place. And oh yes, had we not gone into Iraq in the first place, we wouldn't have needed a surge at all, and an awful lot of people would still be alive.

Of course, once we had gotten to Baghdad (without securing the country as we marched), we shocked and awed and then cleverly sent home the Iraq army, so that took care of the hall monitors that were already trained and in place.

We sure did knock ourselves out doing things that weren't necessary.

Iraq has failed? I thought even Obama finally admitted the surge turned the tide. Hello again, Steve:

Turned the tide to what? Where are the WMD's? Did you forget that's why we went? If you wish to rewrite history, then you won...

But, I'm not as gullible or as forgetful as you righty's are. You're just stuck on this word "victory". But, you haven't a clue what that is. Even under McCain, we would be pretty much out by 2010 - and he'd call it victory. Obama is going to have our troops out a little sooner, and he isn't going to call it victory...

But, IRAQ will be the same NO MATTER which president brings our troops home. It won't be defeated and it won't be victorious... It will be a FAILED exercise.

excon

Sure, Obama agreed with the surge, but, if you remember, he was against going into Iraq in the first place.

No, Obama did not agree with the surge, he finally admitted it worked - after lying about what he's said all along.

“It is clear at this point that we cannot, through putting in more troops or maintaining the presence that we have, expect that somehow the situation is going to improve, and we have to do something significant to break the pattern that we’ve been in right now.” 10/06

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” 1/10/07

“we’re not going to baby sit a civil war.” 1/11/07

“We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality, we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.” 1/14/07

My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now." 7/18/07

"Finally, in 2006-2007, we started to see that, even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didn't withdraw troops from Iraq but actually
doubled them and initiated a search and at that stage I said very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but we're actually worsening, potentially, a situation there." 11/11/07

After all that, Obama claimed he believed it would work all along at the NH debate:.

“I had no doubt, and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we, uh, place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and, would we would see a reduction in the violence.” 1/5/08

Liar, liar, pants on fire Mr, Obama.


And oh yes, had we not gone into Iraq in the first place, we wouldn't have needed a surge at all, and an awful lot of people would still be alive.

I've heard and read this line so many times and it's as irrelevant today as it was the first time. It doesn't matter, the fact is we're there so the question is what do we do now? Finish the job or run away?


Of course, once we had gotten to Baghdad (without securing the country as we marched), we shocked and awed and then cleverly sent home the Iraq army, so that took care of the hall monitors that were already trained and in place.

As if they were going to suddenly turn their allegiance from Saddam to Bush?

Figure this math out for us, Bobby. What's the percentage of ratings versus views on all Youtube videos? Do you really think most people ever rate ANY Youtube video?

Who is the "us?" You and your ego? That means it's insignificant enough not to be worthy of rating. Like rubber necking as you pass a wreck. You just slow down traffic as you continue peering through the rear view mirror. I know you hate it when I punch holes in your statements. Just think! I do it 100 percent of the time for FREE! How you like that math? ;)

Hello again, Steve:

Turned the tide to what? Where are the WMD's? Did you forget that's why we went? If you wish to rewrite history, then you won.....

But, I'm not as gullible or as forgetful as you righty's are. You're just stuck on this word "victory". But, you haven't a clue what that is. Even under McCain, we would be pretty much out by 2010 - and he'd call it victory. Obama is gonna have our troops out a little sooner, and he isn't gonna call it victory...

But, IRAQ will be the same NO MATTER which president brings our troops home. It won't be defeated and it won't be victorious..... It will be a FAILED excercise.

excon


BINGO! We have a winner here folks!

Who is the "us?" You and your ego?! That means it's insignificant enough not to be worthy of rating. Like rubber necking as you pass a wreck. You just slow down traffic as you continue peering through the rear view mirror. I know you hate it when I punch holes in your statements. Just think! I do it 100 percent of the time for FREE! How you like that math?! ;)

Apparently you failed at math... and logic, statistical analysis, and playing nice with others. Since your argument was about the percentage of ratings, the validity of your argument rests on the probability of ANY video being rated. As one has to sign in as a member to rate videos and most people are not members of Youtube I think it's highly likely that most videos viewed are never rated. I picked this random video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNiaEGrdTu8) and it was viewed 4655 times and rated 25 for a total of .537 percent. I picked the one below it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfjQujYrfEk), viewed 238,383 times, rated 1768 times for a percentage of .741 percent. Makes Dear Mr. Obama look like a smash hit at "a little over a small amount of 29 percent."

Stuff that in your ego and chew on it.

Apparently you failed at math ... and logic, statistical analysis, and playing nice with others. Since your argument was about the percentage of ratings, the validity of your argument rests on the probability of ANY video being rated. As one has to sign in as a member to rate videos and most people are not members of Youtube I think it's highly likely that most videos viewed are never rated. I picked this random video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNiaEGrdTu8) and it was viewed 4655 times and rated 25 for a total of .537 percent. I picked the one below it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfjQujYrfEk), viewed 238,383 times, rated 1768 times for a percentage of .741 percent. Makes Dear Mr. Obama look like a smash hit at "a little over a small amount of 29 percent."

Stuff that in your ego and chew on it.

29 percent is huge, you're right, but like you say, Bab got their math wrong, it's actually 0.34%, somewhere around half of the percentage of the videos you cited. But I don't think this tells you anything. It just means that people forwarded this video to their moms and grandmoms who don't know how or why to rate a video. *shrug*. I try to stay out of these debates. As a brit it's not something I'm really able to take part in. But I'm happy to point out bad math and people putting importance on things which in reality mean nothing.

I'd like to point out that no one is better off under a dictator. I don't care if there was less killing. I for one believe in freedom and while it may not be Americas place to bring it to everyone. I do think it is something that everyone should understand how important freedom is.

The quote is "Give me liberty or give me death." not give me liberty or at least allow me to make enough to feed my family.

29 percent is huge, you're right, but like you say, Bab got their math wrong, it's actually 0.34%, somewhere around half of the percentage of the videos you cited. But I don't think this tells you anything. It just means that people forwarded this video to their moms and grandmoms who don't know how or why to rate a video. *shrug*. I try to stay out of these debates. As a brit it's not something I'm really able to take part in. But i'm happy to point out bad math and people putting importance on things which in reality mean nothing.

Thank you Capuchin, you're right and that was my point, ratings don't tell us a thing.

Turned the tide to what? Where are the WMD's? Did you forget that's why we went? If you wish to rewrite history, then you won...

I'd still like to know where the WMD's are myself, but then you guys like to forget that the EVERYONE believed they had them, including that pinnacle of excellence the UN - which is largely what all those resolutions were about.


But, I'm not as gullible or as forgetful as you righty's are. You're just stuck on this word "victory"...

But, IRAQ will be the same NO MATTER which president brings our troops home. It won't be defeated and it won't be victorious... It will be a FAILED exercise.

I'm not stuck on the word "victory," I'm just not as cynical about Iraq as you are.

It just means that people forwarded this video to their moms and grandmoms who don't know how or why to rate a video. *shrug*.

Hey Crapuchin, your granny knows how to click into watching a YouTube video, but not how to rate what was viewed? :p And Stevie found another video that wasn't worth no more than a look-see. ;) (yaaaawwwwnnnn... )

Hey Crapuchin, your granny knows how to click into watching a youtube video, but not how to rate what was viewed?! :p And Stevie found another video that wasn't worth no more than a look-see. ;) (yaaaawwwwnnnn...)

Crapuchin? Glad we're having an adult debate here.

I don't think my point was really that she wouldn't know how to, but rather that she wouldn't have any reason to. We don't all have time to rate things on the internet.

Hey Crapuchin, your granny knows how to click into watching a youtube video, but not how to rate what was viewed?! :p And Stevie found another video that wasn't worth no more than a look-see. ;) (yaaaawwwwnnnn...)

Gee, Bobby, maybe while your off and your wife has you by the testicles she can teach you the word "random," as in "I picked this random video" which was the first one on Youtube's home page at the time. Or go ahead, you pick a random video, everyone pick a random video and show us the ratings percentages.

Gee, Bobby, maybe while your off and your wife has you by the testicles ...You are hitting new lows every day. Enjoy your lonely internet life.

You are hitting new lows every day. Enjoy your lonely internet life.

Ah, NK, I love you, too. I call it like I see it, apparently you only see what you want or you think unrestrained arrogance, complete disregard for facts and calling someone "Crapuchin" elevates the discussion.

Steve
P.S. As for my "lonely internet life," your profile currently shows 6098 posts to my 1045. Looks like you're almost 6 times lonelier than me. :D

P.S. As for my "lonely internet life," your profile currently shows 6098 posts to my 1045. Looks like you're almost 6 times lonelier than me.

You --> Join Date: Jan 2007
Me --> Join Date: Dec 2004

Another at your attempt at misleading people. Also my livelihood is based on being on the internet.

I got snookered too:

1. The video was sent to me by someone I know and love.
2. There is an American flag showing.
3. The young man is dressed in a khaki shirt (hmmm, military?).
4. The young man looks very serious.
5. Had there been a dog or cat in the video, I would have clicked Play even faster.

I'm apparently very lonely.

You --> Join Date: Jan 2007
Me --> Join Date: Dec 2004

Another at your attempt at misleading people. Also my livelihood is based on being on the internet.

LOL, and so being here more than two years longer and working on the internet shows I'm wrong how?

LOL, and so being here more than two years longer and working on the internet shows I'm wrong how?

No. It's that math thing again. He's been on longer and therefore even at the same rate of posting, there will be more posts.

No. It's that math thing again. He's been on longer and therefore even at the same rate of posting, there will be more posts.

Yes, exactly. More time, more posts, more lonely hours on the internet.

Crapuchin? Glad we're having an adult debate here.

I don't think my point was really that she wouldnt know how to, but rather that she wouldnt have any reason to. We don't all have time to rate things on the internet.

I'll take you at your word, whatever you were thinking. I missed a digit in the viewer numbers, so my math was off. However the .34 number demonstrates even less significance and viewer rating than 29 percent. Now with my name spelled out in the signature I would expected the mature adult you claim to be to had addressed me as such. You didn't. Likewise I don't turn the other cheek.


Gee, Bobby, maybe while your off and your wife has you by the testicles she can teach you the word "random," as in "I picked this random video" which was the first one on Youtube's home page at the time. Or go ahead, you pick a random video, everyone pick a random video and show us the ratings percentages.

Steve, I knew if I checked back in one more time I could find at least one ignorant coward. That would be you and your enormous ego that your wife has to endure... well G-d bless her. My wife is a loving person, that's why I married her, and she deserves respect. How selfish you are to only think about yourself and that keyboard you worship. Boy! You do have a lot to learn about relationships. BTW you can worry about my testicles when choking on my sett. I know that family and marriage apparently means less to you than the internet and having a life, but not so for me. After six plus months plus bantering politics, the election day is here. Give your ego some fresh air and prepare to love the black man that's going to be your president. ;) :)

Steve, I knew if I checked back in one more time I could find at least one ignorant coward. That would be you and your enormous ego that your wife has to endure...well G-d bless her. My wife is a loving person, that's why I married her, and she deserves respect. How selfish you are to only think about yourself and that keyboard you worship. Boy! You do have a lot to learn about relationships. BTW you can worry about my testicles when choking on my sett. I know that family and marriage apparently means less to you than the internet and having a life, but not so for me. After six plus months plus bantering politics, the election day is here. Give your ego some fresh air and prepare to love the black man that's going to be your president. ;) :)

Ignorant coward? Family means less? Sorry I haven't been the good little conservative that takes his beatings, tucks his tail between his legs and runs but it's not my style. Take this on your way out, I'm the one that tried to restore civility to our discussions but as long you act like an a$$ you shouldn't be surprised if that's how you're treated.

Ignorant coward? Family means less? Sorry I haven't been the good little conservative that takes his beatings, tucks his tail between his legs and runs but it's not my style. Take this on your way out, I'm the one that tried to restore civility to our discussions but as long you act like an a$$ you shouldn't be surprised if that's how you're treated.


You mean you lost control. Big difference! You forget that I know how you and others acted before I decided to get involve on the political board scene. After watching the Pub free-for-all constantly bashing anyone that opposed Dubya, I decided to see if you could take it, as well as dish it out. I found out you couldn't. Your ego swelled immensely and you became a psychologically scorned bully. Prepare to love the black man. ;)

C'mon Steve and Bobby. You're both better MEN than this.
Although I agree with Bobby's views more so than Steve I think both of you deserve a little more respect from one another.

Although it does make for a good read.

You mean you lost control. Big difference! You forget that I know how you and others acted before I decided to get involve on the political board scene. After watching the Pub free-for-all constantly bashing anyone that opposed Dubya, I decided to see if you could take it, as well as dish it out. I found out you couldn't. Your ego swelled immensely and you became a psychologically scorned bully. Prepare to love the black man. ;)

OK Bobby, last thoughts here and you can take it how you want. As a Christian I should know better than to respond as you have with insults, but I'm not hardwired that way. I'm not everything I should be, I get pissed when people I respected turn on me, I especially have zero tolerance for people that self-righteously, hypocritically and intolerantly criticize others, turn the other cheek is not my first reaction. But I acknowledge I'm human, I make mistakes, and I do feel bad after I've responded in like manner to someone that's insulted me. You tell everyone it's ego, but to admit my failings, to admit I'm not an expert and didn't finish high school is a sign of humility, not ego.

You're a good man, Bobby, but somewhere down the line during this election cycle that good man got lost. I hope you find him again. In spite of everything I wish you and your family well... but I will not learn to love Obama unless he learns to love the unborn child.

You're a good man, Bobby, but somewhere down the line during this election cycle that good man got lost. I hope you find him again. In spite of everything I wish you and your family well...but I will not learn to love Obama unless he learns to love the unborn child.

I want get into your Christian beliefs or personal perimeters. We all choose our actions and you either choose to love, or hate. However I do know many people that have voted solely based on the abortion issue. Some would say the same for many unnecessary deaths in the Iraqi War. However, as far as I know, though I'm not privileged to Barack's private family information, Michelle Obama has carried all her children to term. I'm pro-choice, yet my wife has never had an abortion and she wouldn't unless she was raped or her own life was in jeopardy, heaven forbid.

Barack Obama has won the election, as expected. He'll have four years to try and unravel the past eight years of failures. If he can't undo at least some of the damage, I'll be voting him out. It's that simple. However I'm going to embrace Barack Obama's presidency in a positive manner. He's had to overcome a lot of haters during this election and I admire his strength and determination. Congratulations to Barack Obama our first African-American to become President of the United States. :)

Congratulations to all American's and let's unite behind our new President like we used to.

Congratulations to all American's and let's unite behind our new President like we used to.

There won't be much uniting I'm afraid, in fact, his election will do more to divide this once great nation than any other president in our history.

I truly feel sorry for everyone who was fooled and swindled by his false promises.

Of course, the first thing we all have to deal with is the largest tax increase in the history of our country when he allows the Bush tax cuts to expire.

Oh, you didn't realize that everyone's taxes will go up, without him even having to raise them, yeah, he kind of left that part out of all his fancy words and promises, didn't he?

I guess none of you pay much attention to all the previous candidates who promised not to raise taxes either. History has proven over and over again that this always happens, and not just to democrats either. The most recent examples are Clinton and Bush Sr.
Both promised not to raise taxes to get elected, and then of course, broke this promise fairly quickly once they got into office.

I'll be interested to see the comments from all of you Obama supporters in say, the next 6 to 12 months, when reality has replaced all of his empty words of hope and change.

Oh yeah, we're in for some changes all right.

There won't be much uniting I'm afraidThere are always those that wish for divisions to exist. It gives them a certain comfort.

There won't be much uniting I'm afraid, in fact, his election will do more to divide this once great nation than any other president in our historyHello prog.

Now you know how I felt about YOUR dufus in chief. And, I was right.

excon

Hello prog.

Now you know how I felt about YOUR dufus in chief. And, I was right.

excon

Hey ex,

I was never a strong supporter of the "Dufus in chief" and will freely admit that he was
Not a true conservative, especially when it came to spending, but, it's time to quit talking about what might have been, and to focus on what lies ahead.

It would seem at this point, that the stock market has not been very impressed with the results of this election, clearly those that invest in our system don't hold much of a positive attitude towards the future with our newly elected President.

I also found it interesting that in 30 years, the president of Iran has NEVER congratulated ANY of our newly elected presidents.

That all changed when Obama won, yes, the enemies of the United States are just as happy with him as all of his US supporters.

That should scare the hell out of any American citizen.

Watch out, change IS coming to America.

Watch out, change IS coming to America.

And I am prepared to protect myself and my family if the need should arise.

What exactly are you guys protecting yourselves against?

I don't know . Perhaps more than anyone now conservatives have a right to say 'no taxation without representation"

I am protecting my family against the enemies of the US who have befriended BO.

Not only has our stock market dropped in the two days, or has it been three now? My days run together now that I work nights, but our unemployment rate has hit highs.

I am protecting my family against the enemies of the US who have befriended BO.I don't understand. How can they now simply waltz in to your town? What changed to allow this?

Hello Need:

I'll tell you what I'M protecting myself from... We've just had a Republican fostered meltdown of our economy. There is going to be some dislocations...

I use the word "dislocations" kindly... What I mean is a severe depression. In fact, during the height of this coming REPUBLICAN lead depression, there's going to be wandering bands of un-employed, hungry people with lots of GUNS. Some of 'em are members here.

excon

You guy certainly do not help the tourism industry for your country. Anyone reading this board from outside would likely never set foot there.

Gimme a break Ex... it's the thugs who buy the guns, and I can name certain brands, for $25 in the back alleys. It is the law abiding citizen who does it through the proper channels. Us law abiding citizens need to protect ourselves.


You guy certainly do not help the tourism industry for your country. Anyone reading this board from outside would likely never set foot there.

Yeah, and I already booked my ticket for Baghdad!!

Hello Need:

I'll tell you what I'M protecting myself from.... We've just had a Republican fostered meltdown of our economy. There is going to be some dislocations.....

I use the word "dislocations" kindly... What I mean is a severe depression. In fact, during the height of this coming REPUBLICAN lead depression, there's going to be wandering bands of un-employed, hungry people with lots of GUNS. Some of 'em are members here.

excon

What is it that you libs don't understand about the real cause of our economic distress?

The forcing of banks, to lend money to people who could not pay it back, by the "socialistic" dreams of the left to make sure that EVERY American can own a house, without ANY regard to their ability to pay for it.

THAT my friends is what got us to this point. Period.

The forcing of banks, to lend money to people who could not pay it back, by the "socialistic" dreams of the left to make sure that EVERY American can own a house, without ANY regard to their ability to pay for it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Clintoon who started that?

I was never a strong supporter of the "Dufus in chief" and will freely admit that he was not a true conservative, especially when it came to spending,

Most of us agree on that. And now that he is nearly out of office, we have to bite the bullet and accept that WE ALL now have to pay for that excessive spending. The debts Bush and friends incurred are not going to go away when he does. In fact, I'm sure there will be more, the result of his poor management. We are stuck with the mess he made.

I have confidence that the Obama administration will do what it can to balance the paying off that debt against the need to keep the economy going and even thriving. But don't assume it's all going to be the way it was under Clinton. It isn't going to be perfect. Nobody thinks we can escape undamaged from the mess the Bush administration got us into. Our country is deeply damaged in many ways.

The reason people are writing to Americans from all over the world to congratulate us is that they are so relieved that we have someone reasonable they may be able to work with. Someone who will not shoot at everything that moves. Bush has been talking about attacking Iran for years. We saw what he did to Iraq. Why wouldn't the Iranians be relieved not to have another avowed hawk in office? That doesn't mean they are going to attack us. And it doesn't mean Obama will be a wuss. If anything, presidents with no military experience have tended to use military force more, or at least that's what I've read.

The greatest danger to Americans comes from ourselves. For example, more Americans (400,000+) are killed by smoking than by terrorists or ANY of the other boogeymen we scare ourselves with. American women and girls who are murdered are nearly always killed by people they know, not by the "scary" stranger from the next town or the next country. We need to keep things in perspective.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

We need to start working to make things better, valuing accomplishment and hard work over having the latest model car, enormous houses, and expensive clothes. Our children and grandchildren will not be able to live as profligately as we have and our parents have, but they may be able to live better lives if we work towards that.

As far as the economy, here's what FDR said in 1933.


More important, a host of unemployed citizens face the grim problem of existence, and an equally great number toil with little return. Only a foolish optimist can deny the dark realities of the moment.

Yet our distress comes from no failure of substance. We are stricken by no plague of locusts. Compared with the perils which our forefathers conquered because they believed and were not afraid, we have still much to be thankful for. Nature still offers her bounty and human efforts have multiplied it. Plenty is at our doorstep, but a generous use of it languishes in the very sight of the supply.. . Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR's First Inaugural Address (http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/)

What is it that you libs don't understand about the real cause of our economic distress? The forcing of banks, to lend money to people who could not pay it back....THAT my friends is what got us to this point. Period.Hello again, prog:

Nope. It's apparently you conservatives who don't quite understand.

Had the problem ended where you say it ends, there would have been a few bank failures. No big deal...

But, it happened because the newly DEREGULATED market allowed Wall Street to package these loans into UNREGULATED OTC derivitives market, with NO capital requirements... Entities who USED sell these unregulated derivatives were called "bucket shops" until they were outlawed. But, the dufus in chief legalized them again. I don't know why the dufus and his minions don't read history.

The TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of dollars LOST in THIS market is the real bugaboo.

It was, in fact, the Republicans who lead the way for DE regulating these markets, and the coming depression can be laid directly at the foot of the REPUBLICANS.

Period.

excon

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Clintoon who started that?
Actually it started earlier with the Community Reinvestment act of 1977; a gift from the Democrat majority and President Carter .
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act)

However you are correct in that it really began to take off during the Clintoon reign. But it lasted throughout the Bush Adm. Also so in that regard it was a bipartisan act of negligence.

Ex I would agree with you if the Democrats in Congress were not complicit in the blocking of financial reform .But we have already posted the proof that both President Bush and Sen McCain tried to pass reform legislation that the Democrats blocked .

actually it started earlier with the Community Reinvestment act of 1977; a gift from the Democrat majority and President Carter .
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act)

However you are correct in that it really began to take off during the Clintoon reign. But it lasted throughout the Bush Adm. also so in that regard it was a bipartisan act of negligence.

Thank you again for the education. I am still learning all of this at my ripe ole age of 44. I guess I have been in the medical books too long.

And while some of the trillions lost was just paper money that has evaporated, a lot of it went to actual people, who have multiple houses and more money than they can ever spend while others live without shelter, medical care, education, and even food.

Don't forget that of the $700 billion we just gave to the "freemarket," $40 BILLION is going to backpay for a handful of executives. If you want to know where your new taxes will be going, stop worrying about the unemployed mother next door who gets a few hundred dollars in food stamps for a few months and start looking at the individuals who really pig out at the slop trough.

But it lasted throughout the Bush Adm. also so in that regard it was a bipartisan act of negligence.

I'm happy to call it bipartisan. But I would not call it negligence as if it was just a benign mistake. It was greed, pure and simple.

I called Washington Mutual in early 2007 about a home loan and they pursued me for months trying to sell me a loan I clearly couldn't afford. I'm so glad I had the sense (or at least anxiety) to say no. These financial institutions were allowed to run themselves into the ground by a lack of regulation and so they did. They had apparently no thought for the future, but only of how much money they could make today.

I'll grant you all that you say. I'll even go further than that . Wall Street Corp has a Sharia Compliant division ;so does many of these financial institutions everyone said we had to save.

But perhaps I should save this for another posting because I have evidence that Paulson would have Treasury jump on board this sharia compliant investment scheme.

The only thing I will add these companies defense is that they were pressured big time by groups like ACORN and their backers in government to loosen up standards for lending .