Any suggestions on dealing with an angry ex-wife? Mine is very hostile (only communicates by email) because she knows I'm gay and that I lied to her about it in the past. She found gay porn once on my computer and said she was "shocked" -- I told her it must have gotten there by mistake. She found out about a guy I was seeing once and asked, "Is that your gay lover?" Once she asked me flat out, "Are you gay" and I lied and denied it. But now she knows the truth and is really mad.

What's the best way to approach it? Just say, "too bad, get over it"? Or, "sorry"?

Besides to work out a divorce, why are you even talking ?

Besides to work out a divorce, why are you even talking ?

We have kids together so we have to talk and also there are money issues.

Hi, cadillac59!

Since you mention that she is your ex-wife, I would assume that to mean that the two of you are divorced. Would that be the case, please?

Thanks!

Hi, cadillac59!

Since you mention that she is your ex-wife, I would assume that to mean that the two of you are divorced. Would that be the case, please?

Thanks!

Well ex in the sense we are not together but going through a divorce.

Thanks! I would assume then that the two of you are legally separated. Would that be the case, please?

Thanks! I would assume then that the two of you are legally separated. Would that be the case, please?

I don't know what you mean by "legal separation."

Hi cadillac,
I don't mean to be following you or anything but giving that you said that you are quite effeminate, she may be angry at herself for not seeing the 'warning signs', and taking it out on you?

hi cadillac,
i dont mean to be following you or anything but giving that you said that you are quite effeminate, she may be angry at herself for not seeing the 'warning signs', and taking it out on you?

Probably so. But the problem is women seem to like for some reason, maybe it's that soft side, or something. I've had women ask me out on dates after I separated from my wife and I have to politely say, "Ah, thanks but no thanks."

I don't know just thought it myt help...

Originally Posted by Clough
Thanks! I would assume then that the two of you are legally separated. Would that be the case, please?


I don't know what you mean by "legal separation."

A legal separation is a court order or written agreement describing the terms under which two married persons will abide while living apart and remaining married. Having such a court order or written agreement is frequently the case when people are looking to get a divorce. If you don't have such a court order or written agreement, then it can make it a problem when you are trying to communicate and work things out, especially if there are children involved.

A legal separation is a court order or written agreement describing the terms under which two married persons will abide while living apart and remaining married. Having such a court order or written agreement is frequently the case when people are looking to get a divorce. If you don't have such a court order or written agreement, then it can make it a problem when you are trying to communicate and work things out, especially if there are children involved.

Well I have to smile at reading this. I happen to be a lawyer and a certified family law specialist in California so I know all about family law.

What you stated was not an accurate recitation of California family law and has no application to me.

Well I have to smile at reading this. I happen to be a lawyer and a certified family law specialist in California so I know all about family law.

What you stated was not an accurate recitation of California family law and has no application to me.

It applied to me over two decades ago when I was going through my divorce where I was living. Not having such a thing, or something like it, may be why you are facing some of the difficulties that you are.

A legal separation is a court order or written agreement describing the terms under which two married persons will abide while living apart and remaining married. Having such a court order or written agreement is frequently the case when people are looking to get a divorce. If you don't have such a court order or written agreement, then it can make it a problem when you are trying to communicate and work things out, especially if there are children involved.

Oh, I wanted to add one thing. I apologize if I came off as rude in my last post because I really didn't mean to and you sound like you were trying to be helpful.

Each state does things a bit differently in divorces and legal separation means one thing in one jurisdiction and something else in another. We have legal separations in CA (judgments of legal separation) ; however, they are the same as divorces only that you remain married (on paper at least). They are fairly rare in any event. There is always a date of separation in every case that has important legal ramifications but that's a different matter altogether.

But again, thanks for trying to help!

It applied to me over two decades ago when I was going through my divorce where I was living. Not having such a thing, or something like it, may be why you are facing some of the difficulties that you are.

It just dawned on me what I think you were trying to say. I think you were saying I needed temporary (often called "pendente lite") orders. Those are orders in place pending the entry of a final judgment in a case that allow for child and spousal support, and a number of other things. Yes, those things are often (in fact almost always) essential to moving things along and helping the parties get through the divorce process. If that's what you meant then yes, you were correct. And thanks again for trying to be helpful.

I think since you lied to her at so many levels, she feels betrayed. Yes, I think you owe her an apology. It would be more than "sorry" though. YOu should acknowledge how your actions have affected her, express genuine regret and offer to make restitution. You should also take time to listen to her when she's angry, hear her out and acknowledge her feelings of disappointment and betrayal.

The way you describe events in your post it almost sounds like you think she has no right to feel angry and upset about the way her marriage has turned out. If that's how you are talking to her, it's not surprising she's angry.

It just dawned on me what I think you were trying to say. I think you were saying I needed temporary (often called "pendente lite") orders. Those are orders in place pending the entry of a final judgment in a case that allow for child and spousal support, and a number of other things. Yes, those things are often (in fact almost always) essential to moving things along and helping the parties get throught the divorce process. If that's what you meant then yes, you were correct. And thanks again for trying to be helpful.

Yes, those were the intentions indicated by what I said.

I think since you lied to her at so many levels, she feels betrayed. Yes, I think you owe her an apology. It would be more than "sorry" though. YOu should acknowledge how your actions have affected her, express genuine regret and offer to make restitution. You should also take time to listen to her when she's angry, hear her out and acknowledge her feelings of disappointment and betrayal.

The way you describe events in your post it almost sounds like you think she has no right to feel angry and upset about the way her marriage has turned out. If that's how you are talking to her, it's not surprising she's angry.

If I were in your wife's position, I would probably be very upset and angry too. As I'm sure you know, people really don't wake up one day and start thinking, "i'm gay;" from my understanding of things, being gay is something that becomes rather clear at an early age. Without knowing any other details involved, I would think that your wife is very angry because you lied to her. This wasn't a white lie about whether you ate the plums she kept in the fridge; this was something that, in some respects, has taken years of her life away from her, is causing her great pain at this time, and is now leaving her to raise your children as a single mother (whether you have joint custody or not). Dating and finding a new partner is life are probably also going to be harder for her as a single, divorced mother. I'm sure you had many of your own difficulties in handling your feelings in this. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a thing wrong with being gay, but being gay and consciously marrying a straight woman while harboring your doubts and keeping them secret is. I'm sure that you didn't feel good about lying to her and that you got married because you were trying to hide from what has become, just the same, the inevitable truth of the matter.

In my opinion, if you really want to resolve things as best you can with her, I mean for you to really have the best chance possible with this, I would honestly suggest that you make this divorce as easy as possible for her. If you consider that your being gay makes it impossible for the two of you to remain married, I think it would be fair to think that reason you're actually splitting up is really not her fault. I agree that she needs much, much more than an apology, but at least that's a good place to start. When I say apology, I mean a big one. A really, really big one that explains everything, lets all of the truth out, and thanks her. Now, I don't want to say that you're going to owe her for life, but since you do have children together, and the children are for life, you kind of do. I think the best favor you can do for her, for your children, for peace in your lives, and ultimately for yourself, is to give her everything she needs, to fully support your children, and to support her as much as you can emotionally and financially at this point.

You can't change the past, but it looks like you want to live your life honestly from now on. I hope that things work out for you, for your soon to be ex-wife, and for your children in the best ways possible.

How long was your married and how far into the marriage did you realize that you was gay?

If I was her it wouldn't matter how sorry you said you were the damage was done. I would feel more angry towards the fact that you stayed knowing you was faking and the hardest part is that there is kids involve but soner or later she would forgive you and maybe counselling might help her but I hope she isn't blaming herself.

In the end after your divorce get done and for the sake of the kids she will get past her angry but it will take time. The only thing you can do is deal with it and put yourself in her shoes in order to feel her pain. The main thought that running through her head is probably how she dismiss all the signs and this could affect her future relationships.

Your wife is devastated by the situation you put her in, and it goes far beyond just the cheating, as you have gone to the basic core of her person, to inflict a terrible pain. Leave this woman alone, as you have done enough harm, and no telling what your kids think, or are going through. The longer the legal stuff goes on, the worse it will be, so I encourage you to do whatever it takes to expedite matters, so she can finally at least pursue her healing, and get peace. You owe her more than an apology.

"I'm sorry" is not enough to repair the damage you've done. At least smooth the way for your family to have a chance at getting closure.

Send a generous check regularly, and leave her alone, until the emotional dust settles.

I agree with talaniman as well. I was including restitution within a full apology. What constitutes restitution would depend on how exactly how your wife most feels she's been hurt. You need to fully listen to her in order to find that out.

I'm still bothered by the seeming arrogant tone of your post, as if your wife was just an inconvenient object in your life--an irritable store clerk or similar. I am hoping that you actually still see her as a person like yourself who loved you and may still love you and with whom you share a deep bond, even if that bond has become a source of embarrassment and confusion to you and a source of terrible pain to her.

I know a California attorney who specializes in emotionally charged mediation, who might be able to recommend resources for thinking about this problem. In the long run, whatever you learn in this divorce will be useful to you in your practice, so addressing this effectively can only help you.

From reading your other post you admitted to being gay without your whole marriage and even though you stated you did enjoy sex with your wife at times you also admitted to think of guys while having sex with her. I think you should've ended it a long time ago with this women and should have came cleaned with her a long time ago instead of putting her in this web.

I agree with talaniman as well. I was including restitution within a full apology. What constitutes restitution would depend on how exactly how your wife most feels she's been hurt. You need to fully listen to her in order to find that out.

I'm still bothered by the seeming arrogant tone of your post, as if your wife was just an inconvenient object in your life--an irritable store clerk or similar. I am hoping that you actually still see her as a person like yourself who loved you and may still love you and with whom you share a deep bond, even if that bond has become a source of embarrassment and confusion to you and a source of terrible pain to her.

I know a California attorney who specializes in emotionally charged mediation, who might be able to recommend resources for thinking about this problem. In the long run, whatever you learn in this divorce will be useful to you in your practice, so addressing this effectively can only help you.

Yes, thank you for your comments and the same to the others.

This is a very emotionally charged situation - unusually so- and that makes it all the more difficult. I've seen many people go through divorces for all sorts of reasons but this tops the list in terms of the emotional upheaval. It's almost off the scale.

This is a good example of how the closet hurts everyone.

I think since you lied to her at so many levels, she feels betrayed. Yes, I think you owe her an apology. It would be more than "sorry" though. YOu should acknowledge how your actions have affected her, express genuine regret and offer to make restitution. You should also take time to listen to her when she's angry, hear her out and acknowledge her feelings of disappointment and betrayal.

The way you describe events in your post it almost sounds like you think she has no right to feel angry and upset about the way her marriage has turned out. If that's how you are talking to her, it's not surprising she's angry.

I couldn't agree because I have to spread more rep but that's exactly what I was going to say. You lied to her for what sounds like a long time and you asked if you should say "sorry?" That seems like a given.

Yes, the closet hurts a lot of people besides those in it. I agree. Congratulations on being out. That's a big step and I appreciate the difficulty of that move, especially considering your marriage. But, to turn this back around, it wasn't an inanimate object (the closet) that hurt your wife. It was you. And I think you need to come to terms with that.

I just wanted to add here that a true apology is not possible until you have accepted that you did something wrong. After you grapple with that, you can make it better.

Consider reading Gary Chapman's book on apology, ignoring the religious material if that is not your thing.

I also thought this was interesting and might be useful to you.
http://www.mediate.com/articles/ebarker1.cfm

I want to be clear, as the issue is not your sexual preference, its breaking your word, in such a devastating way. Those were your choices for whatever reasons, so the consequences are yours also.

I really hope you finally put the welfare, and care of your ex wife, and family, above anything else for now, as being selfish, dishonest, is at the root cause of this whole situation.

Trust me, your actions will have LONG-TERM effects on your whole family, and there needs cannot be dismissed.

I want to be clear, as the issue is not your sexual preference, its breaking your word, in such a devastating way. Those were your choices for whatever reasons, so the consequences are yours also.

I really hope you finally put the welfare, and care of your ex wife, and family, above anything else for now, as being selfish, dishonest, is at the root cause of this whole situation.

Trust me, your actions will have LONG-TERM effects on your whole family, and there needs cannot be dismissed.

Without trying to sound cold, my initial reaction was "what's the big deal, people get divorced all the time for all sorts of reasons; after all, over 50% of marriages fail anyway?" But yes, there's maybe much more too it than that. As an earlier poster said, this is a great sense of embarrassment for me on a personal level. I really hate telling people (in person that is) that I was once married.

Your lack of empathy underscores your putting yourself, and your needs first, above all else.

The big deal here is that you deceived your wife, and were dishonest, with her, and yourself.

You have destroyed her hopes, and dreams, as well as the security of your family, and broken the promises you made. Where is the remorse, or even acknowledge the devastation you have caused?

You are not a MAN of honor, or responsibility. It means nothing to you, so why are you here, and what do you really want?

I hope its not sympathy your seeking, as you will get NONE.

Crawl back in your closet, please. Stay until you can at least be a better human!

Your lack of empathy underscores your putting yourself, and your needs first, above all else.

The big deal here is that you deceived your wife, and were dishonest, with her, and yourself.

You have destroyed her hopes, and dreams, as well as the security of your family, and broken the promises you made. Where is the remorse, or even acknowledge the devastation you have caused?

You are not a MAN of honor, or responsibility. It means nothing to you, so why are you here, and what do you really want?

I hope its not sympathy your seeking, as you will get NONE.

Crawl back in your closet, please. Stay until you can at least be a better human!

I do understand why you're upset with him, but I think that the fact that he's even here and asking himself questions means he deserves a little bit of credit. I was also concerned about part of the attitude I perceived in his first post. The words that came to me were "almost giddy." there's no question that it was very wrong of him to deceive his wife (and himself), but I think that his last responses have suggested that he's willing to listen to what has been said here and that he has conceded at least part of his wrong doing. Handling this in real life is a completely different story, but I am an optimist in the end, and I think he's going to have to start somewhere.

I agreed with many of the points you made, but I wish you hadn't said the "closet" thing. It's a little too heavy in the wrong ways, if you know what I mean. I consider myself a gay supporter, and it's too easy to be very sensitive with these kinds of things. In any case, I really imagine all of us have the same intentions for better outcomes all around. Let's hope that things start getting better for everyone involved from this point on.

Without trying to sound cold, my initial reaction was "what's the big deal, people get divorced all the time for all sorts of reasons; after all, over 50% of marriages fail anyway?" But yes, there's maybe much more too it than that. As an earlier poster said, this is a great sense of embarrassment for me on a personal level. I really hate telling people (in person that is) that I was once married.

Why do you feel embrassed that you was married in the past? I know you stated that you didn't what to sound cold but you do. When you have time you should read posts on here from the ex wife side and the affects it has on them when this happens.

Your lack of empathy underscores your putting yourself, and your needs first, above all else.

The big deal here is that you deceived your wife, and were dishonest, with her, and yourself.

You have destroyed her hopes, and dreams, as well as the security of your family, and broken the promises you made. Where is the remorse, or even acknowledge the devastation you have caused?

You are not a MAN of honor, or responsibility. It means nothing to you, so why are you here, and what do you really want?

I hope its not sympathy your seeking, as you will get NONE.

Crawl back in your closet, please. Stay until you can at least be a better human!

I think you are being a little harsh. This is a very common situation and one that has been going on for centuries (some people call this being on the "down low"). While I do accept responsibility, I also blame this society in which we live. If I had grown up in a society that treated gay people with respect and dignity I may have never been in the closet, or at least not for so long.

When I was really young, in the 80's, being gay was associated with getting AIDS and dying young. There was a considerable amount of homophobia out there then and, to a large extent, there still is today, although things are admittedly better than they have ever been.

So it's not that I am just this terrible rat. I feel like a victim too.

Come on cadillac!

Blaming society is a cop out you are your own man. It may be difficult but if others could do it so could you.

It was these people that had the cojanas to come out that made it easier for you..

Society didn't make you get married or have kids.

You could have stayed in the closet and done whatever you wanted. Noooooooooooo, you chose to involve others.

Get real, and stop the excuses. Victim my azz!!

You have life and BS, all mixed up!

Society didn't make you get married or have kids.

You could have stayed in the closet and done whatever you wanted. Noooooooooooo, you chose to involve others.

Get real, and stop the excuses. Victim my azz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have life and BS, all mixed up!

Exactly! You can't blame society for getting married, that was your choice, and you can't blame your soon to be ex-wife for being angry. She has every right.

Society didn't make you get married or have kids.

You could have stayed in the closet and done whatever you wanted. Noooooooooooo, you chose to involve others.

Get real, and stop the excuses. Victim my azz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have life and BS, all mixed up!

I'm not blaming society totally but look at the way things are and have been. Little boys aren't called names growing up like "you butch little hetero creep" or laughed at for liking girls or dating women. Hell no. Quite the contrary. Wouldn't it be amazing to imagine an anti-hetero society wherein straight people were in the minority and dumped on, where they weren't allowed to get married, where there were expected to be gay from the day they were born. Imagine the reverse of the way society really is! Imagine daytime TV with all gay-oriented themes, where you never saw opposite sex couples kiss or even be portrayed as being in sexual relationships. This is what gay people have had to live with. Imagine going to a doctor and being asked if you were straight because if so it meant you were in a "high risk" group for catching a deadly disease that would kill you... so everyone looked at you funny and put on the rubber gloves. Imagine that sort of a world and you'll appreciate what we (gay people) have had to endure. So yes, I do feel like a victim.

I don't think you need to keep trying to defend yourself. It's not a matter of whether you're gay or straight, it's the fact that you deceived your wife and you children.

I don't think you need to keep trying to defend yourself. It's not a matter of whether you're gay or straight, it's the fact that you deceived your wife and you children.

It's not an excuse but an explanation as they say.

So yes, I do feel like a victim.
So your solution is to victimize?? Because you're a victim makes it okay to destroy someone else?? Your own family??

I'm not blaming society totally but look at the way things are and have been. Little boys aren't called names growing up like "you butch little hetero creep" or laughed at for liking girls or dating women. Hell no. Quite the contrary. Wouldn't it be amazing to imagine an anti-hetero society wherein straight people were in the minority and dumped on, where they weren't allowed to get married, where there were expected to be gay from the day they were born. Imagine the reverse of the way society really is! Imagine daytime TV with all gay-oriented themes, where you never saw opposite sex couples kiss or even be portrayed as being in sexual relationships. This is what gay people have had to live with. Imagine going to a doctor and being asked if you were straight because if so it meant you were in a "high risk" group for catching a deadly disease that would kill you ...so everyone looked at you funny and put on the rubber gloves. Imagine that sort of a world and you'll appreciate what we (gay people) have had to endure. So yes, I do feel like a victim.

You seem to think you represent the entire gay community, homo relationships are depicted on television and I think in some cases very well. As loving caring equal relationships. You have issues you need to deal with. You are clutching at straws attempting not to look at yourself. Buy a mirror and have a look.

I don't think we should be giving cadillac such a hard time. It WOULD be embarrassing to have to admit to gay friends how deep in the closet one was. Whatever the reasons this happened, he's trying to fix things now, so I think we should focus on how he can best treat his wife, instead of us trying to reproduce her anger. Only she knows exactly how angry she feels or why. Let him listen to her anger, not that of strangers. She is the one who was hurt, and cadillac too, for that matter, not us.

I'm not blaming society totally but look at the way things are and have been. Little boys aren't called names growing up like "you butch little hetero creep" or laughed at for liking girls or dating women. Hell no. Quite the contrary. ... Imagine that sort of a world and you'll appreciate what we (gay people) have had to endure. So yes, I do feel like a victim.

I agree with this, it stinks. But in the real world we all live in, about the worst insult to either a hetero man or a gay man is to be compared to a woman--e.g. sissy, p***y,c***, etc. The essential insult to gay men is not that they love men, but that they are like women. How does it feel to be the insult cast as others? Not very good.

I don't think we should be giving cadillac such a hard time. It WOULD be embarrassing to have to admit to gay friends how deep in the closet one was. Whatever the reasons this happened, he's trying to fix things now, so I think we should focus on how he can best treat his wife, instead of us trying to reproduce her anger. Only she knows exactly how angry she feels or why. Let him listen to her anger, not that of strangers. She is the one who was hurt, and cadillac too, for that matter, not us.

Thank you for your kind words.

I know I carry most of the blame over this situation but I'm hurting too. Don't think I don't wish I had come out a long time ago and never gotten married. At lease I'm not like these guys who continue living in the marriage and sneaking around on the wife or like those guys who get divorced and marry again! There are plenty of guys out there doing just that (as some say living on the down low, the Brokeback Mountain thing) and so many of them hook up online, meet in parks for sex, or have sex behind a gay bar in an alley (like I've done and am not very proud of). At least I'm trying to do things right.