SAB, Cruelty in Genesis (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/cr_list.html)
God KILLS and KILLS again. And after he is done killing, he kills more.

>Comment Removed<

jrwild62, you aren't going to get banned for posting quotes from the bible - you're going to get your post deleted for not asking a question. So phrase your above statement in the form of a question which can lead to a friendly conversation, and you should have no problems. And remember to keep it civil.

Here's a suggestion:

Why is there so much murder in the bible?

That site is wrong even from the very beginning: "Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8."

Cain (not God) did the killing, and it wasn't because God didn't like Cain's veggie sacrifice more than Abel's animal one.

Have you been banned before?

jrwild62, you aren't going to get banned for posting quotes from the bible - you're going to get your post deleted for not asking a question. So phrase your above statement in the form of a question which can lead to a friendly conversation, and you should have no problems. And remember to keep it civil.

Here's a suggestion:

Why is there so much murder in the bible?

I appriciate that Jillian. It's hard not to be passionate about this subject. Sometimes it gets the best of me. And I am trying to be civil. It's tough sometimes.

Would you argee that this subject evolkes passion in people?

I appriciate that Jillian. It's hard not to be passionate about this subject. Sometimes it gets the best of me. And I am trying to be civil. It's tough sometimes.

Would you argee that this subject evolkes passion in people?

OK, Then I ask,, why is there so much murder in the Bilbe? I suppose ask God. If I remember correctly there is a total of 17 murderes in the Koran. The Bible?? 2.2 million! That's a good question.

Would you argee that this subject evolkes passion in people?
We all know it does, just like political and money discussions. For evidence, look at those boards on this site.

jrwild62, you aren't going to get banned for posting quotes from the bible - you're going to get your post deleted for not asking a question. So phrase your above statement in the form of a question which can lead to a friendly conversation, and you should have no problems. And remember to keep it civil.

Here's a suggestion:

Why is there so much murder in the bible?

Sorry Chuck, I do pose the question,, Why all the murder in the Bible? I want to know why God is so into killing his own creation.

I appriciate that Jillian. It's hard not to be passionate about this subject. Sometimes it gets the best of me. And I am trying to be civil. It's tough sometimes.

Would you argee that this subject evolkes passion in people?

I absolutley agree this subject evokes passion in people. People are passionate about their faith (or lack thereof), and take personal offence when someone calls what they consider the "truth" into question. That doesn't mean you can't have conversations about religion and faith, it just means you have to be mindful of the approach you take and remain respectful at all times. Don't stoop to the level of being an aggressive troll or losing your temper; you'll learn more and have less posts deleted. :) Think out your question before posting, and post because you really what an answer, not because you want to start a flamewar.

I absolutley agree this subject evokes passion in people. People are passionate about their faith (or lack thereof), and take personal offence when someone calls what they consider the "truth" into question. That doesn't mean you can't have conversations about religion and faith, it just means you have to be mindful of the approach you take and remain respectful at all times. Don't stoop to the level of being an agressive troll or losing your temper; you'll learn more and have less posts deleted. :) Think out your question before posting, and post because you really what an answer, not because you want to start a flamewar.

Agreed!!

I absolutley agree this subject evokes passion in people. People are passionate about their faith (or lack thereof), and take personal offence when someone calls what they consider the "truth" into question. That doesn't mean you can't have conversations about religion and faith, it just means you have to be mindful of the approach you take and remain respectful at all times. Don't stoop to the level of being an agressive troll or losing your temper; you'll learn more and have less posts deleted. :) Think out your question before posting, and post because you really what an answer, not because you want to start a flamewar.

That has been my fault in all this. I will try to be more objective and considerate. Keep my anger at bay. It seems I have only caused heated debate against me at this point. But I really do want honest answers to honest questions.

That has been my fault in all this. I will try to be more objective and considerate. Keep my anger at bay. It seems I have only caused heated debate at this point. But I really do want honest answers to honest questions.

There's nothing wrong with asking legitimate questions, but yes, you are off to a rocky start. Just chill, no sense in getting upset by a bunch of schmucks on the intertubes. :D

To answer the question of why there is so much murder in the bible - my best guess is so the people who read it fully understand how powerful god is and that when he says don't make fun of bald men, he means it. But I'm a godless heathen, so what the hell do I know?

2 Kings 2:23-24 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Seriously though, I guess it has to do with god asserting his power. We also know god is a jealous god, and when people (and apparently, gods) are jealous, they do some crazy things. And remember, as they say, absolute power breeds absolute corruption.

There's nothing wrong with asking legitimate questions, but yes, you are off to a rocky start. Just chill, no sense in getting upset by a bunch of schmucks on the intertubes. :D

To answer the question of why there is so much murder in the bible - my best guess is so the people who read it fully understand how powerful god is and that when he says don't make fun of bald men, he means it. But I'm a godless heathen, so what the hell do I know?

2 Kings 2:23-24 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Seriously though, I guess it has to do with god asserting his power. We also know god is a jealous god, and when people (and apparently, gods) are jealous, they do some crazy things. And remember, as they say, absolute power breeds absolute corruption.

I agree, but whey does the creator of the universe have to be so angry? If I created the universe, we would all be happy and eat well without gaining a single pound. Food would naturally grow in the fields for free picking. We would all be naked and unashamed. There would no such thing as money,, no need for it. People would wake up everyday and feel extreme happiness. Happiness to the point of falling down laughing in pure joy. There would be no crime, no sickness, Peiople would be happy and healthy for 1000 years and go to sleep one day one there 1000th birthday. Chocolate cake and ice cream would be healhty. There would be no cars, electricity, computers, phones Government, taxes, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, just freedom and fun. A 1000 picnic. I ask,, What's wrong with that??

Seriously though, I guess it has to do with god asserting his power. We also know god is a jealous god, and when people (and apparently, gods) are jealous, they do some crazy things. And remember, as they say, absolute power breeds absolute corruption.
Actually, no, that's not why (according to the Bible). In Genesis 12, God told Abram he would become the father of a great nation. God also told him He would lead Abram and his fledgling nation to a land that they would be able to claim as their own, a land of milk and honey, a land that would be the center of monotheism in a mostly pantheistic world. That land we all know now by the name Israel.

Back in Abram's time, the land was called Canaan and was inhabited by people who did not believe in God. God gave Abraham's (his name had been changed to this) young nation permission to eradicate all the people currently living there, to totally wipe out the idol worship and paganism that they practiced. Then the young nation moved in and took over the land for themselves.

(And yes, that doesn't explain why all the children were killed. One would think that they could have been raised with the God-believing children. That's what some conquering nations often did, save at least some of the children and adopt them. In this case, the annihilation of the Canaanites was total.)

I agree, but whey does the creator of the universe have to be so angry? If I created the universe, we would all be happy and eat well without gaining a single pound. Food would naturally grow in the fields for free picking. We would all be naked and unashamed. There would no such thing as money,,, no need for it. People would wake up everyday and feel extreme happiness. Happiness to the point of falling down laughing in pure joy. There would be no crime, no sickness, Peiople would be happy and healthy for 1000 years and go to sleep one day one there 1000th birthday. Chocolate cake and ice cream would be healhty. There would be no cars, electricity, computers, phones Government, taxes, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, just freedom and fun. A 1000 picnic. I ask,,,, Whats wrong with that?????
Your creations would not fight or argue; they would have no free will and would have no choice but to be happy? Then you are a puppet master.

Your creations would not fight or argue; they would have no free will and would have no choice but to be happy? Then you are a puppet master.

So you have a problem waking up everyday of your life and being happy with aboslutely no problems? You sound trapped on the Earth that is filled with depression. Make me God, I'll do a better job.

So you have a problem waking up everyday of your life and being happy with aboslutely no problems? You sound trapped on the Earth that is filled with depression. Make me God, I'll do a better job.

Is God not a puppet master right NOW?

Is God not a puppet master right NOW?

This God commands you to worship him for your entire life and then for trillions of years after that. Who is the puppet master now?

So you have a problem waking up everyday of your life and being happy with aboslutely no problems? You sound trapped on the Earth that is filled with depression. Make me God, I'll do a better job.
I would have no choice but to be what you consider happy.

I won't appreciate the sun if I haven't experienced the rain. And too much cake and ice cream make my tummy hurt. Always getting what one wants and "being happy" isn't the best way to live.

This God commands you to worship him for your entire life and then for trillions of years after that. Who is the puppet master now?
But I have free will. I have a choice. I can say no.

A commander is one thing. Being a puppet master is something else.

http://88.84.128.30/%7Eisnochys/wordpress/wp-content/god-v-satan.png

I would have no choice but to be what you consider happy.

I won't appreciate the sun if I haven't experienced the rain. And too much cake and ice cream make my tummy hurt. Always getting what one wants and "being happy" isn't the best way to live.

That is your state of humun being. You don't think it's possible to wake up everyday for 1000 years and have NOTHING to worry about? I think it is very possible. But not in this world that God seems to have faulted. Have you ever once in your life woke up happy? How about the day after that? Was the next day sad? Why was the next day sad? Was the day after that happy again? What makes the difference? It is your environment, your brain, your world, your job, your family?? Why can't everyday be happy? What is the excuse? I ask in the most honest way that I can. What aspect of your life causes you to be unhappy on that day?

http://88.84.128.30/%7Eisnochys/wordpress/wp-content/god-v-satan.png

I sincerely appologize. OK, It was only 2.1 million. Sorry for the exaggeration.

That is your state of humun being. You don't think it's possible to wake up everyday for 1000 years and have NOTHING to worry about? I think it is very possible. But not in this world that God seems to have faulted. Have you ever once in your life woke up happy? How about the day after that? Was the next day sad? why was the next day sad? Was the day after that happy again? What makes the differance? It is your enviroment, your brain, your world, your job, your family???? Why can't everyday be happy? What is the excuse? I ask in the most honest way that I can. What aspect of your life causes you to be unhappy on that day?
Whose version of happy will I be? Yours?

Whose version of happy will I be? Yours?

I think happy is happy. There is no debate there. Do you have a smile on your face? That's happy. Just try to enjoy your days

I think happy is happy. There is no debate there. Do you have a smile on your face? Thats happy. Just try to enjoy your days

And like I have said,, enjoy your moments. Life is a series of brief moments. Enjoy them. Do that,, you are happy..!

SAB, Cruelty in Genesis (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/cr_list.html)
God KILLS and KILLS again. And after he is done killing, he kills more.

FR_Chuck will ban me now for QUOTING the Bible. Enough said.....

Well, first I'd like to remind you that Christian baiters are restricted to the Member discussion forums. You seem to fit the description. Unless the rules have changed again since I've been gone, that's where you need to be posting.

But you ask, why does God kill human beings? He gave us life and He takes it back whenever He's ready.

Let me ask you, is the taking of a human life intrinsically evil?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Well, first I'd like to remind you that Christian baiters are restricted to the Member discussion forums. You seem to fit the description. Unless the rules have changed again since I've been gone, thats where you need to be posting.

But you ask, why does God kill human beings? He gave us life and He takes it back whenever He's ready.

Let me ask you, is the taking of a human life intrinsically evil?

Sincerely,

De Maria

I would not say that I am speaking evil by any means, However, I do try to have a sense of reality. We both walk on the ground of this Earth. We are not in the clouds

What if MY version of happy is different than YOUR version of happy?

Happy is BORING if it happens ALL the time. That's not happy--that's content.

And frankly, there's no growth in a person or in a society without strife, hardship and adversity. I would be absolutely bored to tears in your version of happy! I LIKE a good philosophical argument!

What if you were stuck in someone else's version of happy---say, for instance, MY version of happy? I would say you'd have to work hard to be happy, but that you'd feel good about yourself when you did achieve it.

How about this: In my version of happy, everyone is a bisexual, and has no judgements whatsoever about sex, and there's no such thing as commitment to one person, and no worries! There are no kids---because face it, there's no WAY to have kids and be eternally happy. You worry too much about your kids to be happy ALL the time when you have kids.

No one dies, but it's not a problem with overpopulation, because there are no kids!

You can't MAKE people happy. It doesn't work that way.

Read "Atlas Shrugged" or "Brave New World" for better examples of some overpower trying to make everyone happy. All you end up with, in the end, is everyone bored, everyone jaded, and everyone mediocre.

I'll take some sadness and hardship if that means that I'll absolutely SHINE with happiness when I have it.

I would not say that I am speaking evil by any means, However, I do try to have a sense of reality. We both walk on the ground of this Earth. We are not in the clouds

Perhaps you didn't understand the question. I asked whether you believe the taking of a human life is intrinsically evil?

I agree, but whey does the creator of the universe have to be so angry? If I created the universe, we would all be happy and eat well without gaining a single pound. Food would naturally grow in the fields for free picking. We would all be naked and unashamed. There would no such thing as money,,, no need for it. People would wake up everyday and feel extreme happiness. Happiness to the point of falling down laughing in pure joy. There would be no crime, no sickness, Peiople would be happy and healthy for 1000 years and go to sleep one day one there 1000th birthday. Chocolate cake and ice cream would be healhty. There would be no cars, electricity, computers, phones Government, taxes, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, just freedom and fun. A 1000 picnic. I ask,,,, Whats wrong with that?????

Yes, that's the way things would be if YOU created the universe - but you didn't. But alas, you're veering into another topic. You started asking why there is murder in the bible, now you've diverted to the state of the world. You're talking about two different things here.

Why is the bible god so angry? Because that's how the bible was written. ;)

Well, first I'd like to remind you that Christian baiters are restricted to the Member discussion forums. You seem to fit the description. Unless the rules have changed again since I've been gone, thats where you need to be posting.

But you ask, why does God kill human beings? He gave us life and He takes it back whenever He's ready.

Let me ask you, is the taking of a human life intrinsically evil?

Sincerely,

De Maria


As far as human life, I think it is a matter of simple earth, and no God creation. And that is my simple opinion. I have no idea if that is right. But judging by the evidence, I think it is very accuirate

Actually, no, that's not why (according to the Bible). In Genesis 12, God told Abram he would become the father of a great nation. God also told him He would lead Abram and his fledgling nation to a land that they would be able to claim as their own, a land of milk and honey, a land that would be the center of monotheism in a mostly pantheistic world. That land we all know now by the name Israel.

Back in Abram's time, the land was called Canaan and was inhabited by people who did not believe in God. God gave Abraham's (his name had been changed to this) young nation permission to eradicate all the people currently living there, to totally wipe out the idol worship and paganism that they practiced. Then the young nation moved in and took over the land for themselves.

(And yes, that doesn't explain why all the children were killed. One would think that they could have been raised with the God-believing children. That's what some conquering nations often did, save at least some of the children and adopt them. In this case, the annihilation of the Canaanites was total.)

How is that not a demonstration of power and a show of jealousy?

"I command you to kill everyone in this city.." (power) "...because they woship idols and are pagans...(i.e., they don't worship me; jealousy) "... now you can have this land to yourselves... " (power) "... because you DO worship me." (jealousy).

:confused:

They should have a chart for how many people god has created and loved, compared to satan. This thread assumes that god had no reason for killing people. From what I know of god, which is very little, god uses evil for good, every time. Also, god, with all knowledge and wisdom, is complete order. He doesn't chaotically murder people. He has a reason. If you are bothered by god killing people, you must also ask the reasoning behind it. In the bible, it gives reasons for the deaths. Usually this involves worshipping god. Since he is our creator, he demands for us to do what we were made for, holding our creator in reverence in every aspect of our lives. The reason people today cannot understand this, shows the apostasy we have developed.

But I have free will. I have a choice. I can say no.

A commander is one thing. Being a puppet master is something else.

YES, You do have free will. Use it.
And you are doing that quite well in your opinions, Thank you Wondergirl.

So 10 dead by the Devils hand...

2,038,344 by God's hand...

And only 98,154,263,542,224,100,352,120 by Man's hand.

Hmmmm...



I may have exaggerated a "little" on the final number but I couldn't find any exact references to just how many of us we have killed.

So 10 dead by the Devils hand...

2,038,344 by God's hand...

And only 98,154,263,542,224,100,352,120 by Man's hand.

Hmmmm....



I may have exaggerated a "little" on the final number but I couldnt find any exact references to just how many of us we have killed.

Did not God create mans hand?

Did not God create mans hand?

Jizzle?, Did God create mans hand?

Did not God create mans hand?

Well of course, but even as you said:


YES, You do have free will. Use it.

;)

I think happy is happy. There is no debate there. Do you have a smile on your face? Thats happy. Just try to enjoy your days
No. Happiness is a journey, not a destination. My journey to "happy' would be very different from yours. Will I be able to choose my own kind of happiness? Does it have to meet with your approval first?

No. Happiness is a journey, not a destination. My journey to "happy' would be very different from yours. Will I be able to choose my own kind of happiness? Does it have to meet with your approval first?

Can I choose my kind of happiness?? Ummm Yes. Can U? That statement means you are not in control of your own life. Who controls it? If not you?

Can I choose my kind of happiness?? Ummm Yes. Can U? That statement means you are not in control of your own life. Who controls it? If not you?
YOU told me I would wake up happy every morning and would be happy eating cake and ice cream, or some such. The things you mentioned would not make me happy.

Here's your quote:

If I created the universe, we would all be happy and eat well without gaining a single pound. Food would naturally grow in the fields for free picking. We would all be naked and unashamed. There would no such thing as money,, no need for it. People would wake up everyday and feel extreme happiness. Happiness to the point of falling down laughing in pure joy. There would be no crime, no sickness, Peiople would be happy and healthy for 1000 years and go to sleep one day one there 1000th birthday. Chocolate cake and ice cream would be healhty. There would be no cars, electricity, computers, phones Government, taxes, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, just freedom and fun. A 1000 picnic. I ask,, What's wrong with that??
I don't want to give up my computer or my Neon or my cell phone.

I think happy is happy. There is no debate there. Do you have a smile on your face? Thats happy. Just try to enjoy your days
You don't know what happy is.

Moved to discussion board.
... even though there was nothing suggested for discussion...

SAB, Cruelty in Genesis (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/cr_list.html)
God KILLS and KILLS again. And after he is done killing, he kills more.

FR_Chuck will ban me now for QUOTING the Bible. Enough said.....



True - read through Judges and Joshua and Revelation for more gore.

If you believe in God, that God has put a moral sense of right and wrong in you, and your question about God killing is at odds with your sense of right and wrong. But consider that we are His creations, we cannot know what is ultimately just. Read through the book of Job.

The Bible starts that way, but read the Bible the whole way through, and there is eternal life and happiness for some. There is justice in the end.





Now, if you do not believe in God, the whole question of "God killing" is a false question, designed to stir up debate.

If there is no God, and we are just chance beings that exist, then we know that life, death, murder etc are just part of the chance randomness that somehow came to be.

jrwild62,
As recorded in the bible God kills or orders people killed for several reasons.
God is the ultimate judge.
He is the one big boss.
He uses death as the ultimate punishment.
He also kills to protect those He wants to protect at a particular time.
A person could think of it this way.
Though a person loves his/her dog the dog is put to death because it disobeys by biting people.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

jrwild62,
As recorded in the bible God kills or orders people killed for several reasons.
God is the ultimate judge.
He is the one big boss.
He uses death as the ultimate punishment.
He also kills to protect those He wants to protect at a particular time.
A person could think of it this way.
Though a person loves his/her dog the dog is put to death because it disobeys by biting people.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Sorry, but I don't quite buy your analogy. You say someone puts a dog down because it disobeys by biting people - you are talking about causing actual, physical harm. You didn't say "disobeys by peeing on the rug" or "pulling on the leash". You are talking about physiclal harm.

The bible god kills people who cause no harm whatsoever, such as killing children who tease a bald man. Your god allows all sorts of child molestors, rapists, murders and other horrid people live long, long lives; but kills a couple of kids for teasing a bald man? Sounds like a bully to me.

It's good to know that God won't punish me like he punishes believers that are babies.

jillianleab,
Since God is the ultimate in love, mercy, understanding, justice, and wisdom wisdom there is no way that I or anyone can fully understand why He has done certain things and not done others.
I have had some of the same questions about His justice regarding certain recorded episodes mentioned in the bible such as has been mentioned here.
But I am but a frail human being with limited wisdom and understanding. In this life I will never know it all, if ever.
So, though I may question God to try to understand I realize that I can not unless He explains it to me clearly and simply.
So far He has not.
So I have given you the answer that I was able to come up with.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

jillianleab,
Since God is the ultimate in love, mercy, understanding, justice, and wisdom wisdom there is no way that I or anyone can fully understand why He has done certain things and not done others.
I have had some of the same questions about His justice regarding certain recorded episodes mentioned in the bible such as has been mentioned here.
But I am but a frail human being with limited wisdom and understanding. In this life I will never know it all, if ever.
So, though I may question God to try to understand I realize that I can not unless He explains it to me clearly and simply.
So far He has not.
So I have given you the answer that I was able to come up with.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I had a feeling this would be your response. I don't need you to explain god's actions to me, I understand (to you) that's impossible. But please understand, these are the types of things which bring doubt and skepticism to people. People want answers, you can't give them. That's OK.

But really, I just wanted to point out the flaw in your analogy - might want to think of a new, more accurate one! :)

If you can't understand his actions how on earth are you suppose to understand orders third party orders. Sounds to me like you know nothing about god or if there is even one. Excellent revelation you have had

Sorry , but this post even in discussion has gotten to the point of being offensive and so misguided it has no real discussion.